It wasn't just Chris Pronger. It was everywhere. Take faceoffs. Peca unavailable? Well, let's see. There's Stoll and Horcoff, plus Reasoner before the deadline.
It was all over the roster, Need a penalty killer? The Oilers had a bunch of good ones, including Peca, Smyth, Horcoff, Stoll and Dvorak. On defense, there was Pronger, Steve Staios, Jason Smith and later Jaroslav Spacek.
Just a beautiful roster, filled with options. Options and balance. Lots and lots of balance.
Since then, and especially since 2007 and the invasion of teenage centers who don't shave (who joined the blue that didn't shave, they arrived the fall before) it's been hard to make sense of the Edmonton Oilers. There's every chance a useful player is right under our nose waiting for Ryan Smyth or Eric Belanger to show up.
Under these circumstances it's become very hard to watch the Edmonton Oilers and envision a time when they'll be competitive. As horrible as the Oilers were in the early 1990s, and baby Jesus knows I'm not lying when saying they were unwatchable (see: Shayne Corson through George Burnett Oilers), this past couple of seasons have wreaked. My Dad always used to say "never send a boy to do a man's job" and we got a heaping spoonful of it over these last years.
All of that suffering, all of those losses, all of those injuries all of those coaches and all of those prospects, are hopefully in the rear view mirror as we speak. The Edmonton Oilers aren't going to make the playoffs in 2011-12, but the management is going to give the coach and the gifted youth more horses in an effort to start the ball rolling.
If you're read this far, you're an Oiler fan.
--
The work isn't all done. The Oilers had several holes last Friday and needed to fill as many as possible:
A veteran winger to help with PK/PP and guide the kids at evens.Truculence.- A veteran NHL defensemen.
A faceoff man to help with PK and to balance the C position.- A legit option for the moment when goaltending becomes an issue.
It isn't perfect, but at least we know they're alive.
--
I've thought quite a bit this afternoon about the roster and how they might align these people with each other. There is some balance here and with that there are options. Here's how I see the depth chart tonight by position.
GOALER: Dubnyk, Khabibulin. There were rumors (that bikini girl is smart) that the Oilers had enquired about Tomas Vokoun this afternoon. I'm not suggesting they're going to sign him or even that it's a reasonable plan to allow ST in the same room with a goalie; however, it does suggest that the organization views the position as an area of need. This is not a playoff tandem, hell I don't know if this duo gets you to 13th in the west. But the good news is the young one appears to be the better one and there are reasonable options to shore things up over the summer.
DEFENSE: Ryan Whitney, Tom Gilbert, Cam Barker, Ladislav Smid, Andy Sutton, Theo Peckham, Jeff Petry, Taylor Chorney. I have Sutton slotted lower than some and in looking back more than one season he appears to have been used in a more useful role in years previous to 10-11. However, I think the Oilers will move heaven and earth to make Barker into a player this winter, so that second pairing is going to see Barker paired with the best available option (possibly Gilbert). Sutton may well play higher than he's slotted here, but I wanted to post the depth chart the way the Oilers might see it tonight.
At this point, I'd guess the pairings will go Whitney-Smid; Barker-Gilbert; Sutton-Peckham.
There is no doubt in my mind the Oilers will need to trade players before training camp, and along with the picks I imagine there's a good chance the team will cash someone in for an upgrade to play with Barker on the second pairing. Candidates to leave town include Tom Gilbert (as mentioned by Tracy Lane today) and Taylor Chorney.
It's hard to find a way for Petry to make this team with Barker in his way. It may not be a bad thing, Petry could use more time to get used to the speed of the game. I do think he's going to be one of the 6 best defensemen in TC, though. The Oilers won't keep him as a 7th guy.
CENTER: Shawn Horcoff, Sam Gagner, Eric Belanger, Andrew Cogliano, Anton Lander, RNH, Chris VandeVelde, Ryan O'Marra, Tanner House. Lots and lots of centermen now, and two can win faceoffs and have experience killing penalties. A joy to behold! A few items: one of Cogliano and Gagner is moving and I believe it will be Cogliano. The other guy is the better player, so some of it may come down to quality of return. With that as the backdrop, I think there's a chance Lander or VandeVelde earns a roster spot and Nugent-Hopkins stays for the 9-game audition. This is the position that saw the most improvement today, and it was long overdue.
LEFT WING: Taylor Hall, Ryan Smyth, Magnus Paajarvi, Ben Eager, Teemu Hartikainen. First, I'm not a huge fan of having goons or one trick ponies on the roster so do understand the muttering over signing Eager and Hordichuk. I believe the alternative (Jacques, MacIntyre) was so lacking in skill that today's additions will have a solid impact on the EV bleeding. I understand there are players on this depth chart that Detroit would never employ, but we're not Detroit. There are two quality NHL players on LW and the Swedish kid is getting there. The Finn got buried today, but if he can climb out of it and onto the roster during the season we'll know he's a player.
RIGHT WING: Jordan Eberle, Ales Hemsky, Linus Omark, Darcy Hordichuk, Ryan Jones, Gilbert Brule. I think we need to agree that Gilbert Brule's status is in question and we shouldn't count on him for 11-12. It might seem drastic but the Oilers had a few nights when they needed him to answer the bell this winter and he couldn't do it. Not being critical, but it will probably impact the roster makeup. The group I've listed here is long on skill and short on checkers. I think this is an area the Oilers might think about addressing this summer: a veteran RW from the Pisani group.
Here's the projected opening night roster:
- Devan Dubnyk
- Nikolai Khabibulin
- Ryan Whitney
- Tom Gilbert
- Cam Barker
- Ladislav Smid
- Andy Sutton
- Theo Peckham
- Taylor Chorney
- Shawn Horcoff
- Sam Gagner
- Eric Belanger
- Andrew Cogliano
- RNH
- Taylor Hall
- Ryan Smyth
- Magnus Paajarvi
- Ben Eager
- Jordan Eberle
- Ales Hemsky
- Ryan Jones
- Linus Omark
- Darcy Hordichuk
Any ideas on a top 4 d-man the oilers could possibly go after. I've heard Green but any other ideas?
ReplyDeleteI really hope Omark stays.
Hemsky vs. Toughs
ReplyDeleteEberle vs. Second toughs
Omark vs. Third best opposition
Brule/Jones vs. dregs.
That looked nice to me, until I imagined it in the likely case that 83 gets injured.
Damn LT...You're Awesome...Thanks,
ReplyDeleteThe fact that some players will have to play their way onto the team instead of being there by acclamation is a good thing.
ReplyDeleteI suspect that if a player truly deserves time in the NHL, then they will earn it and get it.
Smyth 6,250,000
ReplyDeleteHorcoff 5,500,000
Hemsky 4,100,000
Hall 3,750,000
Gagner 2,275,000
Eberle 1,158,333
Pajaarvi 1,525,000
Belanger 1,750,000
Omark 875,000
Eager 1,100,000
Cogliano RFA
Jones 1,500,000
Hordichuk 825,000, Brule 1,850,000
Smid 2,250,000
Gilbert 4,000,000
Whitney 4,000,000
Barker 2,250,000
Peckham RFA
Petry 1,000,000
Sutton 2,125,000
Dubnyk 800,000
Khabibulin 3,750,000
About $6 million in free Cap space after they sign Speedy and Peckman.
They need a goalie.
Unless players are absolutely blowing the doors off the hinges, ala Perry and Getzlaf during their short AHL stint, I have no problem with them seasoning in the AHL.
ReplyDeleteOmark looks like an absolute piss-cutter, even had a few broadcasters refer to him as a Sedin-lite, i.e. without the size. Would hate to see him leave before we actually know what we have in him. I mean the organization that refused to cut bait in a timely fashion (8 years on JFJ) letting Omark go after only 50 games would be trending towards the other ludicrous extreme. Omark smacks of the next Satan more than the next Pouliot.
I'm with WG, Tambo is v3.1 still, he can still screw this up by moving Hemsky and/or Gilbert. Unless the return is Semyon Varlamov for a lottery 1st and 2nd then there's no way he wins that kind of trade.
FPB, I know it's from the other thread, but you'd have to believe goal has to be addressed since:
1. Dubnyk hasn't handled as heavy a workload as he's likely to be asked
2. Khabibulin likely can't be relied upon to be a decent backup, and has a good chance of being injured again
3. OKC needs a goaler to pair with Roy and be a callup option when Khabi goes down
We have no indication whatsoever that Smid can play the right side.
ReplyDeleteReeks. My god, that's a word you should have on speed dial by now.
ReplyDeleteI've always been big on options, too, and that's how I viewed the 2006 roster: lots of options. Also some flaws. Think where we might be now if one of the training staff had slipped some HGH into MAB's annual booster shot.
With the release of JFJ, hopefully the Trojan Horse era has finally ended. JFJ was worse than a coke machine: he was an ice time trojan horse. Souray and Khubibulin (see previous post) were also signings from the trojan horse school of management.
For the smaller men in the house, when they look across the dressing room, anyone who looks back at eye level is a natural adversary: this team isn't big enough for the two of us. Gagner is the harder guy to protect on this roster unless he improves his FO proficiency. He's not a bad option while Renney runs the skill blender, if he wasn't bleeding so much on the dot.
These changes also amount to a nice welcome wagon for RHH. On this roster, he has a legitimate chance to show off his skills. In the visitor's dressing room, someone will finally need to amend the faded graffiti in the coach's toilet stall: "Own the Walls!" This year, opposing coaches will need a four word game plan.
One thing I'm really hoping for as a result of these changes is that our DFL yardsale has ended the era where clapped-out 3rd line vets come to remedy their 20 game scoring drought with a Gordie Howe hat trick. More than once I've wanted to take a baseball bat to the Lourdes drinking fountain in the visitor's dressing room.
If Sidney shows up and extends his lead in the scoring race, fair enough. It's not like we're built to stop him. But enough of Joe random plumber showing up choking the sawdust and leaving town with a sit eating grin. Once again we're meaner than that. AFT.
The way that the Oilers management has been trimming fat so far leads me to believe Cogliano, and Brule are leaving Oil country. I think they go with Horc, Gags, Belanger, VV/Lander for the C position starting the season. As for defense I still feel like they will trade Omark because he seems to be out of place (3rd line RW) small and not a checker. Also if they can move him for a top 4 dman it opens up a wing spot for harski/hordi which IMO makes more sense. If not where does Hordichuk fit? Also did Tambo talk about Hordichuk at all? I can find him talking about all the FA signing except his... weird.
ReplyDeleteBergneheim from tampa to fld.
ReplyDeletespOILer: Yeah, I hear you, but what are the options? Petry with Whitney? Whitney/Peckham? Whitney/Sutton?
ReplyDeleteWell written LT....Omark is indeed in trouble.
ReplyDeleteLT, someone's moving over, but it won't be Smid. Remember in one of the Oil Changes when he was asked to do so in practice?
ReplyDeleteIt will either be Barker, to let him shoot from the offpoint, or the vet Sutton on the bottom pairing.
I'm not convinced our D is fixed, but it's meaner than what it was.
So Florida said they were going for a scorched earth, scrap their best prospects... and now they hire a slew of UFA's.
ReplyDeleteWhat is Tallon doing?
LT: What's so bad about those two? Dubnyk can be a legitimate number 1, and a regular year of Khabibulin gets you some numbers in the area of most backups.
Sutton and Peckham would probably the most offensively inept defensive pair in the NHL.
ReplyDeleteTallon's interview was pretty good actually. Basically said he was buying development time.
ReplyDeleteLT:
ReplyDeleteWhitney-Gilbert
Smid Barker
Sutton Petry
Peckham
I'm worried about Smid and Barker being a middle pairing. But unless another dman is coming, might have to let them fly. If I was to venture a guess, Sutton-Petry might have a chance to pass them at some point.
Smid doesn't have the head for RD and Peckham doesn't have the quickness. Barker doesn't have either, but its the best option without upsetting the apple cart.
I'm still left wondering about Mike Green.
spOILer: Yeah. I wish Petry could push his way into the group, like this:
ReplyDeleteWhitney-Petry
Smid-Gilbert
Barker-Sutton
Peckham
but he's not ready and no one else is either really. I guess you could run Sutton (he is the veteran) but he's as slow as Pierre Bouchard.
FPB: You saw Strudwick last season, right?
"Dubnyk can be a legitimate number 1"
ReplyDeleteThats a mighty bold statement considering he has only had back to back solid starts once. I know I want to see more before I claim that.
Danger Man: Except that ideally you'd like to have Barker in the best possible position to succeed. That's why I have him on the 2nd pairing with Gilbert.
ReplyDeleteThe real problem is that there's two real defenseman, Smid who's coming along, Sutton who can do some things but is long in the tooth and then a few guys you need to be very careful about.
They can't be finished. Can't be.
LT: I didn't knew it was a player. I thought we dressed a broomstick.
ReplyDeleteI guess It'l be the most inept pair offensively, which merits for other reason to be in the NHL lol.
Whitney-x
ReplyDeleteBarker-Gilbert
Smid-Petry
Sutton
That leaves Peckham off the roster.And that's assuming they're not done.
If they are done(or trade Gilbert) then I don't know where all these guys fit..lots of left D
on the roster.
Peckham and Gags/Cogs/Omark might get you something nice.
FPB: lol. How about those Habs? Erik Cole. Who knew?
ReplyDelete"They can't be finished. Can't be."
ReplyDeleteI really hope you are right, but if they are done, I see that D having holes until Petry can hopefully emerge. The Oilers need a RH shooting Dman to buy Petry a year.
Its the same reason I don't think they will trade Gilbert yet.
Blogger Brett Gitzel 英 明 said...
ReplyDeleteAny ideas on a top 4 d-man the oilers could possibly go after. I've heard Green but any other ideas?
I really hope Omark stays.
Keith Yandle is being shopped by Phoenix.
"Any ideas on a top 4 d-man the oilers could possibly go after. I've heard Green but any other ideas?"
ReplyDeleteWhere did all those Zach Bogosian rumours go? Mike Green would be cool too.
I don't think the Oilers have the bullets for Yandle. Not to trade, anyway.
ReplyDeleteYeah, just read the Yandle rumors myself. Does a combo of Cogs, Gagner, Gilbert (or one of the kid d-men) get that done?
ReplyDeleteThat would solve our top pairing D-man.
LT, I think thats possible but only because we know Whitney can shelter everyone.
ReplyDeleteBiznasty recommending Richards signs with Phoenix and then buys the team à la Lemieux.
Blogger Lowetide said...
ReplyDeleteI don't think the Oilers have the bullets for Yandle. Not to trade, anyway.
Sure they do...as Moose has mentioned..Gagner/Cogs, Gilbert
Only problem with Yandle is he is another LH Dman that has played the left side his whole career. It would be another player that would have go through a transformation to the right side.
ReplyDeleteYeah. Now if Barker comes in and plays with authority, would you consider Barker-Petry for the 2nd pairing?
ReplyDeleteThat way the top pairing is Whitney-Gilbert and maybe you can cheat on them a little because Barker will likely get a lot of 1PP time with Whitney?
Although Yandle would be the best one to switch over because he has quick feet.
ReplyDeleteWho have the Oilers added that ranks ahead of Omark on the wings? Smyth, maybe, but I think we were always expecting the wingers on the top nine to be some combination of Hall, Smyth, Hemsky, Eberle, Paajarvi, Omark. I suppose Cogliano could get moved to the wing, but I think he gets moved out.
ReplyDeleteBlogger spOILer said...
ReplyDeleteLT, I think thats possible but only because we know Whitney can shelter everyone.
You're basing that assumption on half a season.
Whitney's resume would indicate otherwise.
Dangerous.
"Yeah. Now if Barker comes in and plays with authority, would you consider Barker-Petry for the 2nd pairing?"
ReplyDeleteI would definitely consider it, but thats if only both play well and play well together. But I don't know if I would want to rely on that going into the season. Both are wildcards at the moment.
"Who have the Oilers added that ranks ahead of Omark on the wings?"
ReplyDeleteI think I might be in the minority here but I think Jones graduates to the third line. The Oilers are going to need forwards that can PK and Jones will likely be one of those guys counted on to do that. The Oilers already have a pleathora of forwards that can play on the PP.
It's a good thing when omark is in trouble. Forward depth at 2 positions, arguably 3, since center could have 5 players NHL ready if RNH makes the club. Defense jumps out as terrible. Would we package Gagner with something significant for a legit young defenseman, NOT BOGOSIAN?
ReplyDeleteDSF/LT,
ReplyDeleteIf you can re-up Hemsky I'd throw Omark into the mix for a Yandle deal as well.
I think Omark is in trouble because he's going to get squeezed out. Jones, Brule, hell Eager might play some top 9 and then there's RNH.
ReplyDeleteBelieve me, I'm an Omark guy. But someone is going to get squeezed out on the wing.
DSF disagrees, so I must be right.
ReplyDeleteI agree we could run:
WHIT GILB
BARK PETR
But like I said above, I don't get the feeling D is in balance yet. It's do-able, but not a winning solution.
I have no problem with trading Omark, but not at the expense of choosing Jones. And he is far harder on the puck than Cogliano.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't trade Omark at all. imo, the wingers you keep are Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi, Hemsky and Omark. If that's too many move one of them to center.
ReplyDeleteThat's hellacious skill there.
I'd play Petry. Big and strong enough.
ReplyDeleteLet's not forget Barker 2 seasons ago popped 40 points. He has it in him. Mystery man.
LT: Well, he's a guy who will go in the dirty areas, and came off 26-26-52. It's not the deal of the century at 4,5, but he'l help the club row in the right direction.
He scored so much playoff killers vs the Habs it's weird to have him with our club.
It's like if the Oil signed Modano or something like that.
I would have to think they are done via FA. Trade seems possible, if not likely however.
ReplyDeleteTo that end, seems like WAS needs to do something - unless they are trying to imitate PHI.
Green
Wideman
Hamrlik
Carlson
Alzner
Schultz
Poti
Erskine
There are a legitimate 7 top4 dman there imo.
Potential there for a high profile trade perhaps. Green, Wideman, Carlson all being RD.
And then there is the whole Bogosian situation that has gone quite for a while now.
And B Mac mentioning that offers might be entertained for Yandle.
There are probably plenty of other options out there as well.
With the increased options/depth created today, there is more room to make a big play to catch of the D with the cluster of the rebuild.
D_Oil: Erskine's not really that good, so they might just flush him.
ReplyDeleteOr trade Green.
LT,
ReplyDeleteIt is too many wingers. The problem is, moving one to center is not that easy. As we all know it's the toughest forward spot to learn because of the reads, and then we're right back to where we started with another guy who can't win draws. Obviously MPS is the one who looks the most cut out for it based on his defensive awareness but him flying up the wing is a strength in it's own right.
I think it's pretty cut and dried that if you have to move one it's Omark. He got off to a rocky start with the organization because of the training camp situation and Renney's comments have always been tinged with the sound of a guy trying to reign in a free-spirit who wants to play outside the system.
If you re-sign Hemsky there's not enough pucks to go around IMO, but who knows?
Regarding Omark, Ty did a nice writeup recently that seems to point to Renney preferring Omark to Jones fwiw
ReplyDeleteI think they may be able to pick a Dman up, maybe from the Caps, especially if the Caps go after Vokoun.
We'll see. Good start. I think Cogs or Gagner is gone depending on the return.
One can finally see the evolution of the team take shape. Some fan favorites might stay, some might go, but finally some transitional forwards that will allow this team to grow properly.
ReplyDeleteCompetition for spots, or lack there of, has always been the biggest downfall of this team.
Like it or not, with Horcoff on the books for 4 more years and with RNH on the way Sam Gagner's days are numbered.
ReplyDeleteIf you guys can't see this you have sentimental issues stopping you from seeing the big picture.
You don't have to trade him this year but by next season RNH will be a player and its going to happen.
Basically what it comes down to is do you want to bet that Gagner will have more value next year than he does right now.
Personally, I don't take the risk and move him now. I might get 60 cents on the dollar compared to what I get next year but there's also a chance that Gagner goes another year without improving and were looking at another deminished asset (re: O'Sullivan).
The smart bet imo is to deal him for a good defensemen right now.
I know many will disagree but at the same time some think he is Bobby Clark or Doug Gilmour so that's expected.
The only other option is that Gagner can eventually be moved to RW but I think you're playing with fire with his value and in that case it makes sense to Ales Hemsky yesterday.
And for the record, I don't disagree that Omark is a better option than Jones and even Gagner or Cogs if you moved them to the wing, I just don't see how you keep a guy like that happy playing in the bottom six without giving him significant PP time. I think he's magic off the half-wall when they used him there.
ReplyDeleteWe've been thwarted on completing The Balance before. But we're far closer than we've been in awhile. And are toughness and gamesmanship resides in our vets, as it should.
ReplyDeleteYour bang on Traktor. Its likely one of Gagner or Hemsky doesn't make it through the season.
ReplyDeleteOmark can stay if he's a good soldier, but if the Oilers here him beaking off about icetime, he's done in my mind. That's the gamble you'd be playing with Omark, he might be a healthy scratch at the beginning of the year when everyone is healthy. He's going to have to bide his time during that stretch. Injuries will inevitably happen or someone goes cold, he'll get his games in then.
Today's signing of Belanger gives the team a look at center that you can work with. Belanger and Horcoff as mentors or give one of them Smyth and then hard match.
ReplyDeleteToday's signing of Eager gives the team a guy who can actually do some things. Eager's never going to be my favorite player but he's a step up from Jacques (big step) and I'll take Hordichuk's resume over MacIntyre.
So, in that way all of Belanger, Eager and Hordichuk improve the team from a year ago.
The blue (and Barker) are next up and that will be the key player imo. Cam Barker hasn't been a guy NHL teams can count on for some time, but imo much of 11-12 is going to be devoted to seeing if he can do things.
Lots of powerplay chances, and a soft landing pairing for his confidence.
The Smid spot. I was hoping Petry would get that spot, but this makes it impossible.
I hope he's worth it.
RNH and Sam Gagner can play on the same team. Really. Especially with these wingers
I'm sitting in my armchair, setting sun shafting through the windows perfumed by lilac and silver willow. There's very little wind for a change.
ReplyDeleteWe back onto Big Hill Creek, a beautiful park with massive poplars that are occasionally rustling in the occasional breeze, It's a lovely place: deer, fox, beaver wander by, pretty joggers and family bikers. Right now, at the next park over there's a band playing, local but good blues... Stamps v. Argos murmur away in the background, I've got a perfect glow on, and here we are talking across the miles about our favorite team after an amazing week.
Thank you, Canada.
This thread is called "balance" and Gagner doesn't complement RNH in any way at all.
ReplyDeleteRNH is an undersized playmaker.
Gagner is an undersized playmaker with even less size, less speed, less scoring ability (his career high 16 goals! Jones scored 18 last year), and he has less of a defensive acumen.
RNH and Gagner can play on the same team but it wouldn't be the smart thing to do.
LT:
ReplyDeleteAgree on Barker. Nice pickup in the sense you get a great pedigree dman who is at that age where they sometimes figure things out. Limited risk in terms of contract and chance for a nice reward. (BTW, capgeek lists him as an RFA next year which could be a nice bonus if he has success and accurate).
That said, he is a risk in the sense that he takes up a roster spot and is a big wildcard at this point coming off a bad season. His risk comes int he form of wasting an important spot that could have been used on a surer thing.
But this team being where it is at, I think the pros outweigh the cons.
spOILer: Sounds like a lot of fun.
ReplyDeleteTraktor: We'll have to agree to disagree.
Gagner & RNH...
ReplyDeleteThose aren't mutually exclusive things. Especially when we don't know more about what RNH's development curve is going to be.
A team with two undersized playmaking centers just made a 3rd round exit, and gave the champions a 7 round OT boxing match.
ReplyDeleteAnd both times their N1 and a N3-4 defenseman was out.
"RNH and Gagner can play on the same team but it wouldn't be the smart thing to do."
ReplyDeleteThats a playoff matchup waiting to get devoured. RNH might eventually be able to handle it, I don't think Gagner will ever be ready for it. Playoff hockey requires solid two-way centers. Without it, you don't have a hope.
"A team with two undersized playmaking centers just made a 3rd round exit, and gave the champions a 7 round OT boxing match."
ReplyDeleteWhich team was that?
Traktor: as you alluded to, there's likely a choice coming between moving Hemsky (and shifting Gagner to RW) or trading Gagner. RNH and Gagner could play on the same team, but on the same team as the 1/2C combination? Questionable - would be easier if one was a 10-year vet and the other was just breaking in, that's for sure. It all hinges on if they can extend Hemsky and at what cost.
ReplyDeleteOdds are the first step is sending Cogliano along (as he's been made a redundant piece by today's signing of Belanger), and the Hemsky/Gagner decision is deferred until the trade deadline, unless Mike Green really is available via trade at the present time....
Lowetide:
ReplyDeleteSo you're saying that Gagner complements RNH?
Or just that balance only matters sometimes??
Dangerman: Montreal.
ReplyDeletePlekanec-Gomez (The latter being putrid)
Both time Markov was out, and Gorges too.
I'm not saying it's the perfect plan, but crunch time it can work, as good as big guys.
Lucic was just horrid. Marchand was brilliant.
The way I see it is we're basically trading the bet on Foster's turnaround for a bet on Barker's turnaround, and we're paying more money for more upside and a better base player (but one who has been trending down).
ReplyDeleteSince it's a bet and doesn't really affect our bottom line, I have no problem paying more for more upside.
Barker isn't the guy I would have went after, but this team had a real problem generating quality shots from the point and Barker was probably the easiest solution to that problem.
FPB is bang on. Size matters, but what matters more is having good players.
ReplyDeleteThe question is whether this is all Gagner is ever going to be, or does he have a much larger upside.
He's steady offensively, but the other aspects of his game seem to be progressing albeit slowly, and it'd be a pretty bold statement to say he has no upside at the ripe old age of 21.
Sending guys like him away, unless it's for an exceptional return, is the hallmark of losing teams.
How big are Bergeron and Krejci?
ReplyDeleteSo you're saying that Gagner complements RNH?
ReplyDeleteOr just that balance only matters sometimes??
I can't speak for Lowetide (he revoked that privilege after that business with the uttering threats charge), but I'm guessing he's saying that "balance" doesn't mean "you can't have two players on the roster with the same weaknesses".
Montreal is playing the role of lovable loser much like the Oilers did in the late '90s-early 2000s. While it has had moderate success, I'm hoping for success better than. Montreal is just as likely to miss the playoffs next year as much as make a run in the playoffs. I'm hoping for more of a foolproof plan, after all, Oilernation just endured two very sad-sacked seasons. To get to where Montreal is now, would be an epic disappointment for me. No offense to Montreal fans intended.
ReplyDeleteHow big is Mike Richards?
ReplyDeleteTraktor: Balance is always important. The Belanger signing allows the team to move along Cogliano and give the team a nice balance with Horcoff, Gagner and Belanger.
ReplyDeleteRNH is part of the next chapter, but I see no reason to assume that Gagner will be the next center to go.
Danger: I don't think you get my point.
ReplyDeleteFact is: The Canadiens got far with small centres and subpar conditions. Hence with prime conditions, having small centres does not matter. Size doesn't matter with good hockey players.
As for the playoffs, it's been 4 straight years in, and 3/4 where they occupied top 2 in the NE division.
Not by adding Andrei Markov and Erik Cole that will make the ship sink.
I guess the San Jose Sharks and Canucks are ''lovable losers''.
FPB: No I get it, I just don't agree with it. Strength does still matters in today's NHL and if you don't have, you are likely looking for it. And as it stands right now, the centers on the Oilers aren't going to win many strength battles.
ReplyDeleteAs exciting as all this news is, I've got this nagging feeling in the back of my head somewhere telling me something doesn't add up. So I'll play the devil's advocate a little.
ReplyDeleteWhile we celebrate Tambellini doing more than just a little something, I wonder about the direction we are going. Our goal is a Stanley, something that will happen after many of these signings today have left Oil Country or retired. Last year, baby Oilers got precious ice time to learn the game at the pro level. Today we hired some goons to add grit to the line up which will come at the expense of ice time for our youth, the very youth we are hoping will ultimately deliver on the rebuild promise and hoist the Cup. While these signings are a positive step for competitiveness in 2011-12, does this really advance the rebuild agenda? I'm getting mixed messages from this team. We seem to have gone from the Chicago model to some hybrid model overnight signing players as if we are putting the final touches on a championship roster rather than a rebuilding roster.
Now we don't have room/ice time for budding talents like Omark, Lander and Petry? What? The future value of any one of them may far exceed all of the value of the free agents signed today added together. Is this how development works? Is there really a master plan, or have we all just become impatient?
Dangerman:
ReplyDeleteBergeron : 6''1
Krejci: 5''11
RNH: 6''0
Gagner: 5''10 1/2
Zetterberg: 6''0
Dastyuk: 5''11
Ah!
Omark's staying. The coaching staff has invested a lot of time in the kid last season, and they're not going to have him rot in the press box. Personally, I think he's going to score a lot of goals this year.
ReplyDeleteI doubt Linus would prefer this, but there's a small chance they'd put him in OKC to dominate offensively again.
If Gilbert stays, could Sutton be the stay at home guy we've been waiting to pair with him the last 3 years?
Ashley: Nope. These are stop gap measures. The goal is to take a run at the playoffs and see if the kids seize the bit...
ReplyDeleteAnd having the bubble kids in lieu gives us depth with these added vets.
Other than the hotshot rooks, there's no untouchable on the roster, if the deal is right.
ReplyDelete"How big are Bergeron and Krejci?"
ReplyDeleteBergeron is one of the best defensive C's in the leauge. Made the Canadian Olympic team because of his defensive game. He's also dynamite on the draws.
Would anyone want Rob Schremp on the team if he was a 45-50 point player that played Rob Schremp hockey?
That's Gagner upside. A guy that can't win draws. A guy that can't kill penalties or play defensive hockey. A guy that can't match up against top players in the league or contain big power forwards.
But if you give him loads of minutes in the offensive zone, and tons of PP time he can net you 15 goals and 45 points.
Those players don't help you win games. They help you draft 1st overall.
Rick,
ReplyDeletere: Sutton w/ Gilbert.
If Sutton and Strudwick had a race I would bet on Struddy.
I'm not kidding.
He can't play top 4 minutes effectively.
His reach, ability and experience makes him a slight upgrade on Foster, but he can't play Gilbert type minutes.
How does it feel to be paying NHL ticket prices to watch a team load up on AHLers? I'd be depressed.
ReplyDeleteAshley:
ReplyDeleteBTW - Kane and Toews reached the playoffs in their 2nd year. We could still be on the Chicago rebuilding plan with Hall and Eberle in their second year and Hopkins possibly starting his first.
Yeah there's no way 45-50p points from a young kid who is taking progressively tougher assignments is in any way a good thing. Teams hate it when that shit happens to them.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying Gagner won't be traded, but if he is, it will be *because* he has value.
Well we've gone from beer to rye now based on comments.
ReplyDeleteEric Belanger an AHLer? Sam Gagner=Rob Schremp?
Cool!
I'm putting my money on Tracy Lane after today... a deal or deals are coming and much of this debate will be a moot point.
ReplyDeletePredicting Cogliano, Gilbert, and quite possibly Hemsky will be gone.
Top 4 (maybe 2) D Man and picks in return... Omark fills the Hemsky role (obviously not quite as well in the short term...)
She also said Khabi will not start the season on the roster... and Vokoun has been back in touch, per Garfield.... aka Deep Throat.
I was hoping she was Deep Throat.
ReplyDelete...Says 3 quick Hail Marys.
Argos gonna win this.
ReplyDeleteThat's Gagner upside. A guy that can't win draws. A guy that can't kill penalties or play defensive hockey. A guy that can't match up against top players in the league or contain big power forwards.
Traktor:
You can safely conclude all of that based on what a guy has done in his age 18-21 years playing center on a mediocre-to-lousy hockey team, and as spOILer has pointed out, playing tougher and tougher assignments each year? As if he's somehow done developing as a player?
Right.
hehehe... Watergate...something something... another Rye please.
ReplyDeleteCGY, LA and TOR also receiving consideration. Hearing CGY deal is 9 yrs, $64M. If last 3 years are "bogus" could really be 6 yr, $60+M deal.
ReplyDeleteBobbyMac's last on the Richard's deal.
CGY must have a deal in place for JBo.
DangerMan:
ReplyDeleteIf you could get Yandle, I don't think you'd be worrying about making him switch, just keep him where he is and trade a LD for a RD or move a different LD to RD.
If you could land Yandle while keeping Gilbert and Whitney, all of a sudden you've got the makings of a pretty decent top 4.
Let's not sidetrack down that road. There's arguments against all that stuff, but let's save it for a more relevant day. Right now there's no doubt Gagner is trade bait, but it ain't because he's useless.
ReplyDeleteSorry, had to delete a couple of posts. One because we're never going to agree and we're pissing on the same soil, and the other because it responded to the original.
ReplyDelete"Steve Smith" I apologize. All of your words are golden. :-)
LT: Are you pruning in the interests of civility, or is Blogger eating comments?
ReplyDeleteA magically disappearing post?
ReplyDeleteTraktor: Below average scoring? C'mon.
ReplyDeleteAs for size Plekanec is one of the best defensive centers in the whole game, and he's 5''10
He was in the Laich/Eriksson range.
speeds: Which one of the LD's do you move though, to fit in Yandle?
ReplyDeleteThe godsend Ryan Whitney
The newly signed Ladi Smid
The newly acquired Andy Sutton
The fan favorite/affordable Theo Peckham
Thats not an easy decision. I'd pick Smid, but I know it wouldn't be popular.
Danger: Andy Sutton...
ReplyDelete"Danger: Andy Sutton..." I guess, but why trade for him in the first place if you are just asking him to leave?
ReplyDeleteLowetide used to delete my posts about Pouliot too.
ReplyDeleteCheers.
Danger: Get rid of Foster.
ReplyDeleteJust act like it was planned. Or trade him for a pick.
Multiple options. The best players get priority.
Traktor: I think you just committed about seven logical fallacies, at least by implication.
ReplyDeleteTraktor: Man, you're all over the place. Is it Gagner=Schremp or Gagner=Pouliot?
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of Foster, shouldn't that trade be reversed by now?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletespOILer:
ReplyDeleteYeah, it sounds like EDM values Gagner more than Cogliano, but if they decide to move one, the answer may well depend on trade value.
If Cogliano will get you a 2nd round pick, while Gagner + could net you Yandle via trade, it's not hard to imagine EDM deciding to move Gagner even if they like him more than Cogs.
Traktor
ReplyDeleteConsidering those deleted posts lack any sense of timing and every sense of repetition, I'm not surprised.
Whats funny about that is, if you turf Sutton to get Yandle, we'd probably need Foster back to fill the need on the right side.
ReplyDeleteI'm all for getting rid of lesser players but geez, the Oilers still need to fill out a hockey team don't they?
I'll go back to my original thought, just play Yandle on the right side.
Both Hartikainen and Omark will step up. They are amazingly talented and driven guys. I can't wait to see how they play when pushed.
ReplyDeleteThe fwd spots will be FUN
Lowetide:
ReplyDeleteGagner = Schremp in terms of not helping win games
Gagner = Pouliot in terms of your stubborn stance on the player.
DG: You could probably find a RH Sutton for cheap.
ReplyDeleteThanks, WG. I'm mobiling it and did zero due diligence.
ReplyDeleteThe one thing that I think we can all agree on is that Chorney is a distant bell now. Wonder if they tried to deal him at the draft?
ReplyDelete'DG: You could probably find a RH Sutton for cheap'
ReplyDeleteI'm not too worried about it, Teubert will likely get his chance to be a RH Sutton in a years time.
We all know Cody Wild has the N7 spot locked down.
ReplyDeletespOILer,
ReplyDeleteDeleted the comment.
I read on my crackberry 64 as 54, so my comment is wrong.
They still bury Hagman at the drop of a hat.
Traktor: I don't know, I was pretty stubborn on Schremp. You're not being fair here, Traktor. Maybe it's Gagner=Mikhnov. Does that work?
ReplyDeleteI agree with that LT, Chorney will likely being playing in the "A" full time next year.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, there were about 30 comments that got caught up in my spam web (it's a blogger feature, I can't turn it off) thingy this afternoon.
ReplyDeleteThe offending word in all 30 cases? bikini!
That's RNH upside. A guy that can't win draws. A guy that can't kill penalties or play defensive hockey. A guy that can't match up against top players in the league or contain big power forwards.
ReplyDeleteYou are correct tracktor. I vagely remember one of the bloggers pushing for a center. A guy that wins draws. A guy that can kill penalties or play defensive hockey. A guy that can match up against top players in the league or contain big power forwards.
Speeds:
ReplyDeleteI think you're bang on with this. Gagner will bring more talent. If they think RNH is ready, then they can move Gagner.
I think o'mark stays. Hordichuk will be the scratch most of the time. He will play when they need extra toughness but will sit most of the time. When Linus sits. Jones plays line three. When Darcy sits, jones plays line 4.
It's finally an exciting offseason! Things looking up!
The offending word in all 30 cases? bikini!
ReplyDeleteNice to know blogger's smut filter software was written in the 40's
"I vagely remember one of the bloggers pushing for a center. A guy that wins draws. A guy that can kill penalties or play defensive hockey. A guy that can match up against top players in the league or contain big power forwards."
ReplyDeleteYeah, that was me.
I think LT is the one who you are referring to. :P
bikini bikini bikini bikini bikini bikini bikini bikini bikini bikini
ReplyDeleteThat should blow it up.
So just when we start to establish some depth at C we are going to send arguably our best one (89) out of town? I doubt Tambellini is that dumb.
ReplyDeleteFlorida signed Bergenheim for 4yrs, $11M.
ReplyDeleteTambo should send Cogliano to Miami for two first round picks before Tallon's sobers up.
I hope the Oil keep Omark.
ReplyDeletebikini you an me,
ReplyDeletei'd like to see a depth goaltender signing and some redundancy moved in the next 60 days.
@hags9k
ReplyDeleteGags is our best C?
Horcoff is our best C. Always was always will be. Until heaven stops the rain the the stars fall from the sky.
Corsi yo sef.
Those thinking RNH will head back to junior this year should take note of how many top 2-3 pick F's have been in the past 20 years.
ReplyDeleteAnd this team isn't exactly stacked.
Sounds like the Edm - Wash trade rumour of a week ago might have had some teeth, as nonsensical as it was. Would any GM take a chance on Hemsky with him rehabbing?
I figured it out.
ReplyDeleteKatz=Cats=Garfield.
I figured it out.
ReplyDeleteKatz=Cats=Garfield.
Katz's kid is going to be so grounded once his dad finds out.
According to undies girl, Hemsky was almost moved today. Deal fell through last minute.
ReplyDeleteSo it looks like 83 isn't in the plans. It's a tough one but somewhat understandable considering his recent fragility.
Omark can be a Hemsky lite as early as 2013, so maybe that's a part of their decision making process on the wings. Hemsky is the better player, but with Omarks competitiveness its hard to bet against him developing a lot the next few seasons. His size will always be an issue, but he plays like a mini sedin. I don't think moving him would be a smart decision right now.
Am I missing something or is Kaberle not a UFA?
ReplyDeleteAll the talk is about Richards and I don't hear anything about Kaberle. Seems strange if he is UFA that there is no media whatsoever on him.
With regards to Hemsky, I would ask him to sign an 3 year contract at reasonable dollars.
ReplyDeleteIf he does not agree before the trade deadline, deal him for whatever you can get.
He may be tired of Edmonton and might not be willing to wait out the rebuild. Losing him to free agency is not a good plan.
Chartley's,
ReplyDeletethere was plenty of spec about Kaberle on TSN2 yesterday, mostly about will he sign with the Bruins on a discount.
Re: Hemsky nearly being traded.
We probably have no idea how many deals for star players fall through in a given season. We also have no idea if it was us who didn't pull the trigger or the other guys... was the value we wanted ever there?
Every player is tradeable for the right return.
Still left for the balance sheet:
ReplyDelete1. Too many forwards so some must go. The Oil will be looking for picks or D help. However, is Brulé even tradeable right now?
2. Top 4 Dman, ideally strong defensively, good mobility and size, RH shot and willing to use it
3. Netminder to split duties with Dubnyk
Gagner or Hemsky both have decent value and due to redundancy of skillset, the Oil are likely taking offers. The danger here is not getting sufficient value back for the asset they're giving up. A young D phenom or blue chipper would be ideal.
Cogliano is part of the log jam at centre and Oil hired for the role he was trying to fit. They'll see if they can swing a second rounder for him or see if he can be included in a package.
Peckham is likely available as part of a package if it means an improvement on D coming back. We sure have a lot of LH defenseman right now.
Vokoun still remains in play as a UFA, and perhaps no takers yesterday means his price and his options have dropped.
@ Gretz99ky
ReplyDeleteOK you are probably right, but if Horcoff is still better than Gagner which he likely is, it won't be for very much longer. Maybe I should have said most valuable instead of best, because I would CERTAINLY say that 89 has the most value of any C on the roster based on his talent, age, and contract. Not the type of guy we should be shopping IMO. People who think Gagner in 2 years can't play on the same team as RNH are nuts. As if having 2 good scoring lines is going to hurt us. Last I checked neither Krecji or Bergeron were 6'3" killers and that team did ok. KEEP 89! 13? not so much!
These exercises in filling out mock lineups are swell but impractical.
ReplyDeleteIf everyone is healthy, Omark, Hartikanen, and Petry can start in the AHL. RNH can go back to junior and pull an Eberle.
If I were Tambo I'd keep Chorney as the 7th Dman and send Petry to OKL. This year is still about development.
As the first D call up, Petry likely gets 60 NHL games and 20 on the farm.
But there will inevitably be injuries, subpar performances, and trades.
Depth is good.
Looking forward to see who they add to the farm.
The addition of Belanger should really help Horcoff.
ReplyDeleteAs per Matty in the EJ
ReplyDeleteHere's what the four Oilers forward lines could look like:
- Taylor Hall-Nugent-Hopkins-Jordan Eberle;
- Ryan Smyth-Shawn Horcoff-Ales Hemsky;
- Magnus Paajarvi-Sam Gagner-Linus Omark;
- Eager-Belanger-Ryan Jones.
Where does that leave Hordichuk, Brule, Cogliano and Teemu Hartikainen?
A good summary Spoiler. A couple of thoughts on it:
ReplyDelete1) At this point, the only way we get a top 4 D man for the right side is through a trade. I can't see the Oil getting into the bidding for Kaberle - some team will give him too much over too long a term. Problem is, to secure a top 4 return, I think we'll see one of Gilbert, Hemsky or Gagner out the door. I don't think Cogliano + gets it done (even with a 2nd round pick). Are people happy giving up Hemsky to solve the defence problem? I can't say I am - I'd rather see how well someone like Petry holds up before we contemplate that.
2) On goaltending, I don't see the addition of anyone expensive. We're looking at an AHL/NHL tweener at best. Besides, the Oilers SHOULD be playing Dubnyk more because we need to see what we really have there. No point sitting him behind an established veteran now only to try and figure him out in a couple years when the rest of the team is ready to go.
Nice to know blogger's smut filter software was written in the 40's
ReplyDeleteFor most of the 1940s, Bikini was just an atoll.
Did Matty steal those lines from a bathroom stall?
ReplyDeleteThats about as generic and unimaginative line combos I have seen thus far.
Not to mention a people's home.
ReplyDeleteOh wait, it never is mentioned.
Those line combos look dead on. It's not NHL2011.
ReplyDeleteI think ST has done a good job filling holes. Cupboard is still stocked with prospects.
ReplyDeleteAm not sure how trading Gilbert for a top 4 D is an addition unless we are getting a Yandle caliber D
I guess going forward Belanger Can be a 4th line - though it would be a luxary - and it's hard to think both 89 and Hopkins can be on the same team.
ReplyDeleteOr they both can't be on the same team with lander and 10 and we know that.
if bob stauffer transsexual is correct, 83's out the door and that means 23 will stick.
I'm not gonna try and take a run at the lines until I see who we deal for the top four D; if at all.
I predict it will eventually be 89 though.