This is beginning to get serious. Jordan Eberle--gap toothed man child from the flatlands--is finding the upper reaches of the NHL's scoring charts. Jordan Eberle is an emerging player, in that zone between "damn he's going to be an NHL player" and "stand back, I don't know how big this thing is gonna get!"
JORDAN'S PROGRESS
- 5x5/60: 3.24--first on the Oilers, 4th in the NHL (behind the net)
- 7th in NHL total points
- tied for 9th (with Marian Hossa!) in points-per-game
There is a natural tendency to assume that the two #1 overall picks are the straw that stirs the drink, and certainly their time will come. However, I think it's worth mentioning that Jordan Eberle--selected in the "Pouliot-Schremp" range of the draft--is an emerging talent. The All-Star game is a glorified popularity contest but the truth is that Jordan Eberle has earned the right to play in that game. Jordan Eberle is one of the best young NHL players.
Full stop.
He of magic hands and big hockey brains deserves the success. He's killing it out there right now. Gotta love it !
ReplyDeleteGo Ebs !
Isn't Eberle tied for 8th, with Malkin?
ReplyDeleteInstead of 9th with that plug Hossa, lol.
Even better than that hunter. He's tied for 7th with Malkin. And he leads with more goals. 17 to 15.
ReplyDeleteSo when he's in his UFA year he'll be branded as heartless while he's ran out of town for the rebuild v5.2.
ReplyDeleteOT: Hypothetical
ReplyDeleteIf Oscar Klefbom was in the 2012 draft were would he be drafted among defencemen this year.?
If 3.2 is still the GM when Ebs is in his UFA year there will not be any fans left.
ReplyDeleteOf course, I loved in yesterday's game threads where the talk turned to the trade rumors it was Vish who was said to be wanting more.
Whether that was real or not, am now waiting for the next press conference to be held to annouce that 3.2 really is the GM.
Does anyone know Ebs' historical shot percentages? I know last year he shot 11.4% and this year it's 17.9%. The latter figure seems quite high and implies that he's had some luck, but on the other hand he's always being praised for how accurate he is and he doesn't shoot just to get it on it - he shoots to score. I'm just intrigued as to what percentage he shot at in junior and in the AHL, I wouldn't be surprised it if it was in the mid-teens. Jordan Eberle is a goddamn mini-miracle on skates, I can tell you that much though.
ReplyDelete17.9% is high.
ReplyDeleteStamkos (who's shooting the light's out at 20%+ this year) is 16.6% on his career. Gaborik and Iginla are 13.4% and 13.2% respectively. Ovechkin's career number is only 11.9%, but the guy takes a tonne of shots (528 shots in 08/09!!!). Crosby is 15.2% in his career.
Eberle is a gem, no doubt, but I woulnd't expect this year's shooting percentages to stay that high over his career. I would, however, expect him to get his shot totals well over the 200 mark each year. He only had 158 last year and is on pace for 195 this year. Hall shoots it quite a bit, so I wonder if being his linemate the last 2 years has brought Ebs' shots down.
Klefbom named as one of the two all star D-Men for World Juniors. Gormley was the other.
ReplyDeleteThank you Mr Lombardi
This is the same guy who was "cold" at the beginning of the year. He's stupendous.
ReplyDeleteI haven't looked today, but until very recently he was leading the NHL in in-division points. Not a bad stat to lead in.
Hossa is a nice baseline.
ReplyDeleteper behindthenet.ca:
Hossa: 2.92pts/60, 11.04 on-ice Sh%, 3,71 gf/60
Thus, Hoss gets 2,92/3,71=points on 78% of goals his team scores.
Eberle: 3,24pts/60, 12,40 on-ice Sh%, 3,47 gf/60
Thus, Eberle gets 3,24/3,47=points on 93% of the goals his team scores.
Even for a gifted straw that stirs the drink, it looks like Eberle is being kissed by lady luck. You regress him to Hossa's % (points on 78% of goals scored at a 11.04% clip), you get 2,4 points / 60, still high up there. Which means that only at ES, you shave about 7 points from where he stands now.
So even when you take the hot air out of his numbers, he still score at Ryan Smyth's level.
Pretty darn good.
His shot last night against St. Louis was awesome. He reminds me of Toews, ..... a super talented character forward that is a cornerstone player on most franchise in the NHL. Whoa... ; )
ReplyDeleteFail for Naill just got more complicated. He is out indefinitely with a knee injury.
ReplyDelete"So when he's in his UFA year he'll be branded as heartless while he's ran out of town for the rebuild v5.2."
ReplyDeletetrollolloll
No problem, Ducey.
ReplyDeleteJust change it to: "Crinkle for Grigorenko".
Why not "Lyin for Ryan" Murray since the organization continues to deceive us that it has a plan
ReplyDeleteEberle makes last nights goal against the Blues look easy to do. The rest of the team (not picked first overall) given the same circumstance, would probably have
ReplyDeletea) failed to raise the puck and it would have slid on the ice into the sprawling goaltender
b) raised the puck too high and the shot would go high.
I also like Eberle's goal celebrations. Most of the easy ones, his attitude seems "yup. Another goal. Just like i'm supposed to."
I wonder if Eberle will surplant NK as the Oiler's MVP this year?
ReplyDeletesince the organization continues to deceive us that it has a plan
ReplyDeleteOf course they have a plan. Its to continue to acquire and develop young top end players.
I think they thought they might have an outside shot at making the playoffs but they were not serious about it or they would have pulled a Columbus and traded some picks/ prospects for a big name.
As it is they are actually doing okay in most team categories including GF/GA. They also have a top 5 PP.
I get the impression that people would be happy with the progress if the Oilers were in the 45 pt range. Thats 5 wins.
Given the number of games they have been in that they could have won with more depth/ experience, 5 wins doesn't seem like a good gauge to judge how the rebuild is progressing.
The floppa for lil' foppa.
ReplyDeleteIf the other Oilers not named Eberle used their brains a little more they would note his success in SO's revolve around a quick move ( forehand or backhand) and its upstairs.
No screwing around with a million moves followed by sliding the puck along the ice into the waiting pad.
I would suggest this simple plan would mean another 5 pts/year. (not that it helps the team this season)
I would think an intelligent coaching staff might point this out.
I get the impression that people would be happy with the progress if the Oilers were in the 45 pt range. Thats 5 wins.
ReplyDeleteI'm not unhappy with the Oilers' progress - 13th in the conference this year, probably in the range of 10th next year, seems like a reasonable pace for a rebuild.
My concern is that after next year, Eberle, Hall, and Smid get big raises, and Whitney's a UFA. Year after, RNH gets a big raise. If they Oilers were going to play Hall and Nugent-Hopkins in the NHL at 18, it should have been because they anticipated contending in the 2012-2014 range. They're not going to, and I'm concerned that we're going to have to jettison talent (or at least not fill our glaring holes at D and in net).
Klefbom named as one of the two all star D-Men for World Juniors. Gormley was the other.
ReplyDeleteThank you Mr Lombardi
Thank you Mr Tambellini?
Well, with the construction of the team, they were "lyin" that they wanted to compete for a playoff spot and play meaningful games in March and April.
ReplyDeleteThank you Mr Tambellini?
ReplyDeleteWe're in danger of conflating two questions:
1. Was a 19th overall pick + Colton Teubert good value for Dustin Penner?
2. Was Oskar Klefbom + Colton Teubert good value for Dustin Penner?
I'm agnostic-ish on the first question, but it's the relevant one: a 210th overall pick doesn't become good value in a trade just because it's later used to pick Henrik Zetterberg.
(I hasten to add that, since the buck stops with the GM, Tambellini *does* get credit for making good use of the 19th overall pick, even if the extent of his involvement was paying the right people in his scouting department and listening to him.)
ReplyDeleteInkfart: don't feed an octopus fibre.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAnyone else think the fact that org hasn't given Renney an extension is becoming problematic?
ReplyDeleteRenney played the kids lat year because he had a year on his contract still
and he knew he wasn't getting fired regardless of results.
This year, it has been apparent from the get go, that mgmt's mandate to him was "make the playoffs (or be competitive for 80% of the season) or else"
so now that has reached the "or else" stage, mgmt has to make a decision -
a firing, remain the staus quo, or an extension.
Option A:
If the decision has been made not to bring him back, fire him now, make bucky or kruger the interim
and then bring nelson in next year.
For the rest of the year, make sure that ample icetime is given to lander, harti, etc in order to see where they are in this rebuild.
Option B:
If they keep Renney without an extension, we are going to see him chasing wins at the expense of development. Proof: handling of PRV, benching omark after 5!!!! games, playing belanger on the PP, playing lander and harti 6 & 7 minutes, respectively, last night, etc.
Option C:
Give Renney an extension so that he can feel comfortable giving minutes to youngsters who make mistakes without reprisal and knows that the org is behind him and supports his methods.
Something has to be done. I am in favor of Option A.
Eberle is finding the Steven Stamkos/Brett Hull/Alex Ovechkin soft spot on the PP.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't be surprised if the kid hits 50 goals at some point in his career.
Frankenoil: Would a good coach really want to come to the Oilers if they have fired three coaches in three and one half years under Tamby?
ReplyDeleteI got a puppy a month ago and she is so clutch that my wife allowed me to name her Eberle.
ReplyDeleteTrue Story.
Henry: That is a valid point. However, coaching changes in that small time frame is not that atypical. Add in Eberle, Hall & RNH and I think we could have a long list of coaches would gladly step up to coach those 3. I think Nelson is a logical choice. He has familiarity with some of the personnel, is showing he can be successful in arguably the #2 league in the world, and coupled with Yeo's success (because we all know how Lowe/Tambo go with the flavors of the day) make him an ideal candidate. I ask this question: Has there been an OKC player that has come up where he was completely lost or wasn't prepared for their role to play up here?
ReplyDeleteLowe trading picks for Penner = bad GM
ReplyDeleteTambellini trading Penner for picks = bad GM
1. Was a 19th overall pick + Colton Teubert + a Second round pick good value for 1.25 years of Dustin Penner?
ReplyDelete2. Was Oskar Klefbom + Colton Teubert + a Second round pick good value for 1.25 years Dustin Penner?
I fixed it for you. I am betting that we could get Penner back for a third round pick now, so basically it works out to Teubert, Klefbom and a second for a third round pick and .75 years of Dustin Penner.
Tambellini deserves a lot of criticism for a lot of things, but not for that trade.
I've been saying for a while that the kid's gonna score 40 someday soon.
ReplyDeleteStill didn't think he'd be on pace for 35 this year.
1. Was a 19th overall pick + Colton Teubert good value for Dustin Penner?
ReplyDelete2. Was Oskar Klefbom + Colton Teubert good value for Dustin Penner?
I'm agnostic-ish on the first question, but it's the relevant one: a 210th overall pick doesn't become good value in a trade just because it's later used to pick Henrik Zetterberg.
(There is a third rounder coming to the Oilers this year too.)
To flip your suggestion around though, a trade for the first overall pick would be good value at the time of the trade. 19th is closer to 1 than 210 and usually yields a decent player. Some conflation might be in order.
As for Traktor, I would suggestion conflagration.
I was thanking Lombardi as presumably he was willing to offer the most for Penner. A decision he will likely grow to regret more with each passing year.
trollolloll
ReplyDeleteYes, but I troll the Oilers, not other posters.
Blogger Woodguy said...
ReplyDeletetrollolloll
Yes, but I troll the Oilers, not other posters.
Something about Traktor, DSF and Horcoff comes to mind...I believe it was only yesterday.
How soon we forget :)
DSF: Because you are consistantly certain that the Oilers are doing things wrong, maybe Woodguy figured you had an inside track, and are officially a member of the Oilers management.
ReplyDeleteDucey - I fully agree that the value of a pick has to be focused on what the pick at the time is (i.e. a 19th overall) with the risk/reward potential, not the final outcome of that gamble. Players are kind of the same, but not fully. If Penner walks out after the trade and gets hit by a bus - well that is irrelevant because there was no way of knowing that would happen. However, if he goes to LA and bombs, it could be argued that the team making the trade knew that the player was at his 'high value' point.
ReplyDeleteThere are limits to that predictability though.
Trades should be judged by their value at the time. I thought the Penner trade was fair value for both sides at the time. Now I feel some pity for the Kings.
Gretzkin...
ReplyDeleteSure, but does your puppy have a fiery glow to her eyes?
Today's fun fact:
ReplyDeleteThe Florida Panthers will have $42 million in available cap space at the deadline.
I wonder if Getzlaf, Perry and Ryan love year round sunshine?
man I hope we are competitive soon, would hate to see are kids walk cause they feel the frustration that I do at times.
ReplyDelete@ peeps.
ReplyDeleteNo, I'm pretty sure I could do a better job...as could a majority of posters here.
"I think Nelson is a logical choice."
ReplyDeleteNelson needs to have success over multiple years, and in the AHL playoffs. Hasn't happened yet. Needs to happen if you're going to even think about promoting him.
"Has there been an OKC player that has come up where he was completely lost or wasn't prepared for their role to play up here?"
no, not really .. but it isn't difficult to look good when compared to the Oilers D or bottom 6. we also haven't seen a player come up from OKC and flat out win himself a job.
DSF,
ReplyDeletePlease explain how you get Florida having $42 million dollars to spend at the trade deadline.
@ vor
ReplyDeleteCap space is pro-rated throughout the season.
So, for example, if Tallon picked up 10 million in cap hit a the trade deadline, only the pro-rated remaining cap hit would count from the trade deadline until the end of the regular season.
Since the trade deadline is February 27th, only that portion applicable until the end of the regular season on April 7th would count against the cap.
That $10 million would likely translate into about a $2 million cap hit for the Panthers who currently have $9.5 million in cap space available (non pro-rated).
I didn't do the math myself but heard it on a the radio but it sounds about right.
DSF,
ReplyDeleteI disagree that my comment yesterday was a troll.
It was an exclamation of surprise that two posters with a history of dubious belief in the value of Horcoff didn't immediately engage in vigorous debate when he was compared favorably to Mr. Getzlaf. ;)
vor,
DSF is right.
NHLPA blocks NHL re-alignment plan.
Not sure why they'd do this.
Flexing some muscle in pre-CBA negotiation posturing?
Lazy Eastern Conference players not wanting to be out of their home beds more than 12 nights a year?
No, I'm pretty sure I could do a better job...as could a majority of posters here.
ReplyDeleteThe ego of Brian Burke and the brain of Mike Milbury. You'd be awesome.
Aw, Ducey play nice. :)
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't have signed Horcoff to that contract.
I wouldn't have signed Khabibulin at all.
Just think of all that cap space!
I would have drafted Voracek not Gagner.
I would have drafted Kulikov not Paajarvi.
I would have drafted Seguin not Hall.
And I certainly would have gone out and found some real NHL defenseman to play for the Oilers this season.
How am I doing so far?
Oh, and I wouldn't have traded an elite NHL defenseman for damaged goods and I would have acquiesed to Souray's trade request when he made it and had value...not try and humiliate him two years later.
ReplyDeleteDonald Fehr just pissed in Mr. Bettman's corn flakes. I hate the NHLPA but the thought that the Important Little Man has heartburn tonight gives me a warm feeling for some reason
ReplyDeleteTracy
ReplyDeleteTreenasOil Tracy
Nashville has inquired about Hemskys medical records...as per Garfield
2 minutes ago
On another NHLPA topic, have the owners actually agreed to go to the Sochi Olympics yet? I don't recall seeing that anywhere yet. I expected that to be a big bargaining chip.
ReplyDeleteHemsky's physical or psychological records? I think they're both fragile!
ReplyDeleteI would have acquiesed to Souray's trade request when he made it and had value...
ReplyDeleteIs there evidence that, given his contract, he actually had value at that point? I took the fact that he signed with one of the least desireable teams in the league as an indication that nobody else wanted to pay him that kind of money.
Put another way, most teams in the league could have had Souray at that price point by signing him in the summer of 2007; why would they give up value for the privilege of doing so in late 2009 (I think that's when the request was made), when he had only cemented his reputation for being injury-prone?
Not that the above is a defence of Oilers' management, who signed him to that contract in the first place. But given that contract, I don't think we can blame them for not consummating a trade when he requested one.
How am I doing so far?
ReplyDeleteYou have amazing hindsight!
All you need is a time machine :-)
SS-I have no evidence,but I have heresay and conjecture,and those are kinds of evidence...seriously though,I recall year 2 of Souray as being the all star year and 23 goals scored and (arguably) the team MVP. I don't know if that translates into actual trade value, but if he was movable that would have been the time(with probably a lot of salary coming back)
ReplyDeleteSS,
ReplyDeleteSouray had value, maybe not a large amount, but certainly greater than the loss of $ they paid him in the AHL and then the buy out.
If Kaberle @ 4.25MM for two more years can be traded, anyone can be traded....except for Finger.
Well said WG,although I think I get style points for working in the Simpsons reference..:)
ReplyDeleteI have heresay and conjecture,and those are kinds of evidence...
ReplyDeleteHearsay would be grand.
I recall year 2 of Souray as being the all star year and 23 goals scored and (arguably) the team MVP.
I may be confusing my timelines, but didn't the trade request take place when he was out long-term with a concussion during the third season? I'm not sure concussed players have much value.
That's not to say they shouldn't have traded him during the 2009 off-season, but I didn't think he'd requested a trade yet at that point.
Really DSF,
ReplyDeleteThe thing is that the Panthers don't actually have $42,000,000 to spend. They can rent players whose contracts if paid for a full year would pro-rate to $42,000,000. Not the same thing.
Are you actually saying that since I have $1,200 of disposable income this month I can afford to lease that high end Mercedes I have always wanted? Their is an ongoing cost you have to be allowing for. Every NHL GM knows the bills keep coming due. They also know you need to think ahead.
So you are going to sign three guys, two of who will be up for contract renewal at the same time as one of your key pieces, that great young goaltender we all dream of having. Not to mention this year you will have to let one of Kulikov (the guy you drafted), Versteeg (your team leader), or Jason Garrison walk away, maybe two of them, to pay for the three guys you can "afford".
Not to mention there is also issues of cash flow this year and profit and loss. Anybody know how the owner feels about bleeding money? Or how much money Florida is losing? You probably just got fired. You may remember that fing this sort of stuff up cost the current Florida GM his last job.
Interesting fact of the day -
Nashville will have $65,000,000 to spend at the deadline.
At the trade deadline Detroit could pick up Perry, Ryan, and Getzlaf.
The question is who can afford those guys with their $15.8 cap hit next year and Florida isn't it. Not to mention who can pay the price in terms of players, draft picks, etc.?
Gerta,
ReplyDeleteAny Hutz quote is always a winner.
DSF,
ReplyDeleteIf you're GM of Florida do you do Kulikov and your 1st for Getzlaf?
And I may be confusing the timelines as well--and I'm far too lazy to do the legwork to confirm it--but I recall the Spector story that went public after year 3 and Souray's contention was that he had asked for a trade a year earlier(and got no action from the Oilers) so he went public with his demands.
ReplyDeleteDSF,
ReplyDeleteYou are confusing the possibility of doing something with the practicality and wisdom of doing it. Nasville could acquire 65 million dollars in pro-rated salaries at the trade deadline. Would that be a good idea?
Have you considered the cost of possession for those three guys, never mind who you are trading for them - the transactional cost (which DSF just asked you about)? Can you get all the key pieces in under the cap next year?
Not to mention that approximately 20 other GMS will have enough money to take on those same three guys at the deadline. So there is likely to be a bidding war that will be won based on the amount of talent you are prepared to give up to get them.
Gerta, that's what I remember too.
ReplyDeleteHe went public in April 2010.
I remember reading he asked for a trade after TC that year.
He got hurt Oct 8th with his concussion, came back Dec 15th, then broke his hand Jan 30th.
I think he got impatient, there wasn't a ton of time to trade him and he injured himself right before the deadline.
@vor.
ReplyDeleteOkay...I'll play.
Let's assume Tallon picks up Getzlaf for a cup run.
I was being facetious about him getting the entire line (although he could)
He can easily absorb that salary and cap hit this season and next when Getzlaf's contract expires.
He could also shore up his defense for a cup run by taking on Visnovsky's contract which also expires after next season.
That adds $10.5 million to his cap next season, which he could likely fit, but could also easily be remedied by a trade.
Your analogy of leasing a Mercedes is a good one.
You just have to make sure it's a short term lease.
A couple rounds of home playoff dates will pay for the entire transaction other than the player cost to acquire those assets.
Fortunately for Tallon, he is sitting on the best prospect pool in the entire league.
He'll have to make a decision when he wants to pull the trigger on a playoff run.
Not sure it'll be this season.
Souray asked for a trade after his monster season. This according to Souray.
ReplyDeleteThe rumor in June 2009 was Jack Johnson and LA's 5th overall pick. That might not have been true but its certainly a pretty big gap between that and zero value. I think he had pretty big value back then.
My theory is Lowe regretted not letting Pronger sit until he got the deal he wanted and he was in Tambellini's ear not to rush a deal. Then the following year Souray couldn't stay healthy and his value went to shit.
Any Hutz quote is always a winner.
ReplyDeleteThat's what I thought. His Honour disagreed.
@ WG.
ReplyDeleteNope.
One or the other.
But Florida also has some other assets Anaheim might want and the Ducks say they don't want draft picks.
@ Traktor.
ReplyDeleteExactly true.
And then Souray became disgruntled because Lowe was ignoring his request.
The rest is history.
"I may be confusing my timelines, but didn't the trade request take place when he was out long-term with a concussion during the third season? I'm not sure concussed players have much value."
ReplyDeleteThat's just when he went public with it. Souray could be lying but he told reporters that he first asked for a trade after the 2008/2009 season.
Nobody from Tambellini's camp refuted it.
That's just when he went public with it.
ReplyDeleteSee, you're definitely wrong about that; he went public with it at the end of the season.
But I'm prepared to accept that I was wrong about when he first made it.
I was going to post something along the lines of Lowe regretting making the Pronger deal in haste(and subsequently NOT acting on the Souray request) but Traktor beat me to it.
ReplyDeleteRe Realignment:
ReplyDeleteNice slap in the face to the fans NHLPA. I haven't seen a "rule change" get this much support (95%?) in quite some time. I think my quote around the time was that if it was this difficult to figure out who would vote against the realignment, it was probably the ideal plan. The NHLPA thinks it's better to leave Winnipeg in the Southeast.
Sorry, can someone remind me which great labour injustice these millionaire players have endured that leads them to require a union?
I wouldn't be so quick to think Eberle can't keep up this or some comparably stellar shooting percentage. I think everyone has noticed that as he's got more comfortable with the NHL game he's been holding onto the puck longer in traffic, being pretty careful about picking his shots. He gets a lot of amazing shooting opportunities in-close, based on his patience. If other teams start shadowing him and if he doesn't have an RNH to play with maybe that percentage will go down.
ReplyDeleteSorry, can someone remind me which great labour injustice these millionaire players have endured that leads them to require a union?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.imdb.com/title/tt0113956/
I posted his trade request shortly after it was made.
ReplyDeleteThrough a family connection.
It was made near the end of his best Oilers season in 2009.
Just as Traktor says.
DSF:
ReplyDeleteYeah, I remember you posting that. I didn't think much of it at the time but you definitely called it before anyone.
In other news...Carolina wins tonight and have now pulled even with the Oilers in points.
ReplyDeleteSorry, can someone remind me which great labour injustice these millionaire players have endured that leads them to require a union?
ReplyDeleteAllan Eagleson.
In other news...Carolina wins tonight and have now pulled even with the Oilers in points.
ReplyDeleteIn games over/under .500 (i know, bettman point etc., but point still stands via pts % which is what you see at game 82)
CBJ -14
ANA -12
CAR -7
EDM -5
NYI -3
MTL -3
TBY -2
CAL -1
BUF 0
PHX +2
WIN +3
TOR +5
COL +5
OTT +6
WSH +6
DAL +6
NJD +6
NSH +6
LAK +6
PIT +7
MIN +7
FLA +7
SJS +11
STL +11
CHI +11
DET +12
PHI +12
VAN +12
BOS +16
NYR +17
Top 8 teams in the league are pretty clear.
And before him Eddie Shore, who fancied himself owner, GM coach and physical therapist. Players were afraid to let on they were injured.
ReplyDeletePlus they were paid like mules.
Watching The Oilers play Philly- Gretzky just scored his second. Y'know he might just get to 50 tonight.
ReplyDeleteOh, yeah, alignment or something and FLA definitely has an extra $42 million they want to spend.
@ SS/Woodguy
ReplyDeleteRhetorical...but yeah, those would be the reasons.
Anyway, the point is, the NHL threw an olive branch to the PA with this "partnership" thing...having to vet many decisions through the PA. The PA is taking their very first opportunity to abuse this power even if the vast majority of the players want it to happen. This decision should belong to the league and owners only.
Sorry, a little sensitive out here about unions after watching them drive almost all industry out of our region by demanding 90 grand to push a broom with no education or skill set. All for unions back before government labour laws protected workers but c'mon, basic rights (sick time, holidays, working conditions) are now guaranteed.
As for the higher level stuff (ROP, perks)...if you don't like what your employer provides, don't work there. Supply, demand and merit-based employment.
Far be it for me to defend the union but this is a bargiaining chip, no? This can be solved in a heartbeat imo by giving up something the other side wants, escrow, Olys etc.
ReplyDeleteNHL appear to be turning it into an issue, but this isn't an issue yet because they don't make the schedules for months.
Yeah Woodguy, I posted something a few weeks ago like that but with goal differential. Boston seems to be doing something historic (well, post-lockout historic) at +69. Nine teams free and clear that I'd wager good money contains 3 of the 4 Cup semifinalists.
ReplyDeleteOn the flip side, there 5-7 teams that really blow led by Anaheim at -39.
And as someone pointed out the other day, by goal differential, the Oilers look like a potential riser in the second half. I'd say it kind of differently...they probably should have had better results in the first half but a GD of -5 isn't terrible. Heading south fast though.
But LT, why use something universally good as a bargaining chip. The owners don't win any more than the players on this so it shouldn't have to be offset by something like escrow. Maybe you're right on the Olympics though, cause I think the owners are being douches here. If it's as simple as give us Olympics and we'll give you alignment, then OK. Awful tough way to have a partnership though, if every idea is dismissed out of hand, simply because the other guy thought of it.
ReplyDeleteNext thing you know, players will refuse to agree to mandatory eye protection just because the owners want them to do it! Can you imagine?!
"Sorry, can someone remind me which great labour injustice these millionaire players have endured that leads them to require a union?"
ReplyDeleteThat's easy. Back in the day when it all got started, hockey players got paid very good and only occasionally great money to play hockey. They were normal dudes, who went home after the season and some of them even got summer jobs.
Nowdays of course, they're all rich. But hey! Nothing like keeping the good old blue collar front to fool stupid people into believing it's still some kind of honest hard working blue collar labour union, instead of the pampered cartel it's actually become.
Scoring chances > goal differential > W/L record
ReplyDelete-5 is pretty generous to the Oilers' play in the first half. I'll be surprised if their goal differential is better than -25 at the end of the season.
I don't want to seem naive but, why did Gary Bettman announce to the press that he didn't need NHLPA approval for realignment, when it now appears he did?
ReplyDeleteShouldn't he know what he's talking about?
SpOIler.
ReplyDeleteFiery glow indeed. It wasnt a tough sell to the old lady. The pup is clutch, there is was no other name.
She doesn't have a gap tooth, but i did/kinda still do.
My Brother in Law asked me what we named her. I answered, "#14 in your program, #1 in your hearts".
He guessed it immediately.
@ knighttown
ReplyDeleteAnd Tyler Seguin is on pace to finish the season at +71.
My god.
knighttown: NHLPA may be indifferent to the outcome but that isn't the same as being in favor of it. The NHL has presented this as their agenda, and the PA may want something in return.
ReplyDeleteI don't think there's anything wrong with it.
The Kings didn't "thieve" Gretzky.
ReplyDeleteThey bought him.
Just like Pocklington won Gretzky in a backgammon/poker game.
@Art Vandelay: Whatever, the sentiment of the comment had to do with sympathy for the Kings, or utter fucking lack thereof.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, I have tons of time for the grievances of Indianapolis Racer fans.
Sorry, can someone remind me which great labour injustice these millionaire players have endured that leads them to require a union?
ReplyDeleteAllan Eagleson.
Alan Eagleson helped create the union. (That he later screwed the players left, right, and centre is a separate issue.) No, the real injustice goes back further. See "reserve clause" and "NHL players' annual salary in the 1960s" for a starter.
Boston seems to be doing something historic (well, post-lockout historic) at +69.
No, straight-up historic. They're on pace for +153. Last four teams to exceed +140? 1996 Red Wings, 1979 Islanders, 1977/1978 Canadiens. Only the Habs won the Cup in their respective years, but the Wings went on to two in a row in the modern era, and the Isles went on to four in a row.
I believed at the start of the year that a healthy Pittsburgh was the best team in hockey, and it wasn't even close. Now, I'm less convinced.
And as someone pointed out the other day, by goal differential, the Oilers look like a potential riser in the second half. I'd say it kind of differently...they probably should have had better results in the first half but a GD of -5 isn't terrible. Heading south fast though.
They're actually kind of okay/mediocre in clear victories. It's the one-goal games where they're getting raked over the coals.
That's easy. Back in the day when it all got started, hockey players got paid very good and only occasionally great money to play hockey. They were normal dudes, who went home after the season and some of them even got summer jobs.
Nowdays of course, they're all rich. But hey! Nothing like keeping the good old blue collar front to fool stupid people into believing it's still some kind of honest hard working blue collar labour union, instead of the pampered cartel it's actually become.
You clearly aren't as old as you claim to be, or you'd know that's total horseshit.
Just like Pocklington won Gretzky in a backgammon/poker game.
Also a myth. The game was offered but never played. Bottom line is, Pocklington's cash was more than the Jets could afford.
On the other hand, I have tons of time for the grievances of Indianapolis Racer fans.
ReplyDeleteI tried to find an actual Indianapolis Racer fan once. Went on quite the hunt.
Wasn't successful in doing so, but managed to capture two leprechauns and one sasquatch.
All kidding aside - I'm proud to say that, despite the league's demise coming 3 years before my birth, I now own jerseys of not one, but TWO dead-and-gone WHA franchises. The Racers' Gretzky jersey was cool, but my recently-acquired Cincinnati Stingers uniform with #27 on the back and "Messier" on the name-bar might top it....
Alan Eagleson helped create the union. (That he later screwed the players left, right, and centre is a separate issue.) No, the real injustice goes back further. See "reserve clause" and "NHL players' annual salary in the 1960s" for a starter.
ReplyDeleteYou mistake facetiousness for lack of information.
Less than 3 hours to puck drop and no GDT?
ReplyDelete*bangs empty coffee mug on counter*
WHERE'S MY FREE CONTENT!!
A chorus of empty, banging, coffee cups demanding free content . . .
ReplyDeleteI tried to find an actual Indianapolis Racer fan once. Went on quite the hunt.
ReplyDeleteWasn't successful in doing so, but managed to capture two leprechauns and one sasquatch.
@HBomb: This made me put down my coffee cup so I could laugh properly. I don't know any Racers fans either, but if I find one I'm gonna bend his ear but good about the prodigious talent they sent our way.
From the Dept of Mind Boggling Trivia: The two highest career scorers in NHL history both started their professional careers with Indianapolis Racers.
Bruce - Messier was a Racer prior to being a Stinger? This is news to me...
ReplyDelete@HBomb: Yup. In part to fill the hole created by the departure of Gretzky (and Driscoll) Skalbania signed him as a 17-year-old right off of St.Albert Saints, where he had scored 15 goals and 33 points in 17 GP. Messier played 5 games for the Racers (0 points) before being, uhhm, acquired by Cincinnati Stingers when the Racers folded a few weeks later.
ReplyDeleteAfter scoring 1 goal for the Stingers, the still 18-year-old Messier was declared eligible for the 1979 Entry Draft. The Stingers were dropped at the merger but nobody owned his rights, but with a year of pro under his belt the NHL made a special exemption for him. Unbelievably, he lasted until the 48th selection of that incredibly deep 1979 draft, of which he was the youngest eligible player by quite a number of months.
The rest as they say is history, but the pre-history was pretty damned interesting in its own right.