Saturday, November 12, 2011

Summer 20: Tracking Well

I've started gathering information for the winter top 20 (it'll start later this month) and it should be fun this time around. Plenty of movement and all that, although the top 5 should be familiar. Here's a quick update on the summer 20


  1. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins: A wonderful start to his NHL career (16, 7-6-13 +1) and he's shown a nice range of skills. Miles from what he'll become, he's been splendid.
  2. Oscar Klefbom: Now a regular (12, 0-0-0 +2) and routinely ripping off 15+ minutes a night in the SEL. He started slowly and spend some J20 time when things were slow up top, but Klefbom is on track and should be a lock for the Swedish WJ team.
  3. Jeff Petry: Back in the NHL (9, 0-1-1 +4) and a lock for #2 on this list, but he'll likely graduate (my line in the sand is 50 NHL games and he's at 44 now). I think he's one of the 4 best options on the big club, although there's still a chance he sees OKC some time this winter.
  4. Curtis Hamilton: Very slow start as a pro, including some AHL HS early on, but he's playing now (8, 0-3-3 +1) and should be pushing his way up the depth chart soon. Has seen some playing time with Brule and Arcobello (before Omark was sent down) and that kind of treatment would bode well for his boxcars.
  5. Teemu Hartikainen: Finding the range offensively (12, 5-3-8 +2), he's in the AHL's top 15 in PP goals (3) and top 35 in SOG (38). I think he's ready any time the Oilers want to make the call.
  6. Anton Lander: One of the surprises of training camp, Lander skipped triple A and landed in the NHL (16, 0-1-1 -3) this fall. He's playing 10 minutes a night with the Oilers and for the most part has held his own. The road trip has taken its toll and I wouldn't be surprised if he spent some time in OKC before Christmas. No doubt his arrows are pointing in the right direction.
  7. Martin Marincin: An eventful beginning to the season, including a suspension. Marincin is a pencil, but does seem to have a nose for trouble, which isn't a bad thing for a defenseman to have on his resume. 14, 2-8-10 +3 so far, he scored a goal and an assist last night.
  8. David Musil: Had a fast start in terms of boxcars, but has trailed off (20, 1-9-10 +8) recently. Musil is more of a defensive player than some on this list, and so boxcars aren't really a good indicator. We shouldn't expect him to post big numbers when he arrives, but rather play a solid defensive game.
  9. Tyler Bunz: Medicine Hat goalie is tied for 6th in the dub for SP (.924) and looks to be a strong challenger for a spot on the Canadian WJ team. Bunz has progressed in a steady fashion since the Oilers drafted him, and this season is more of the same.
  10. Tyler Pitlick: Took the fast train when he hit OKC, but has fallen off (11, 1-2-3 E) in the last few weeks. All of his offense came in the season's first three games, and he's been shutout in his last eight. Summaries and descriptions from the AHL tell us about a physical player, but he needs to post more crooked numbers.
  11. Olivier Roy: Having a nice debut (5, 2.35 .914) with Stockton (ECHL) and is playing better than the other guy in the Thunder tandem. Roy is certainly a quality prospect, despite starting his pro career in double A. Oiler fans may remember that Devan Dubnyk played 43 games at that level as a rookie pro.
  12. Jeremie Blain: Having another fine season in the Q (17, 4-12-16 +6) and his boxcar numbers are flat out impressive. Lanky fellow who is going to push for a pro job next fall. Blain's offense--he's tied for 7th among QMJHL defenders in points--is not the complete sum of his game. It's reasonable to suggest he might outlast  a one dimensional prospect due to his nice range of skills.  
  13. Chris VandeVelde: Solid numbers (13, 1-2-3 +2) but his problem is the sheer number of quality prospects knocking on the NHL door. VV is not a youngster like most of the kids on this list--he turns 25 this month--and many of the players ahead of him and in the NHL already are much younger. He would certainly be a candidate for trade or Europe
  14. Tobias Rieder: 18, 11-10-21 +3 so far in the OHL has him inside the league's top 25 scorers. He's an interesting prospect--he has 3 shorthanded goals already--and leads his team in points.
  15. Colten Teubert: Young defender impressed in his recent NHL debut and has been playing well (10, 2-2-4 +3) in OKC. The Oilers are developing some nice depth so there's no need to hurry him, but if someone like Teddy Peckman continues to struggle there may be a job opening in the NHL sooner than later.
  16. Brandon Davidson: 21, 6-14-20 +9 in his 20-year old WHL season. Davidson is tied for third in WHL scoring among defenders and is certainly going to be pro ready next fall.
  17. Samu Perhonen: A raw goalie with "all the tools" we knew our man Chabot liked him and that he would likely play for JYP in the Finland2 league as opposed to the SM-Liiga. Perhonen is in the under league and is underwhelming at this point (7, 3.27 .899), but we knew he was a tool player. I somewhat doubt he'll be on the Finn WJ team and that would certainly be a down arrow.
  18. Alex Plante: 12, 0-3-3 +5 in OKC and after playing third pair minutes for most of the season Plante lined up with Taylor Chorney in last night's win. He's a down arrow for me, because there's not much chance the organization is going to fret over Plante's waiver situation next fall should they send him out. I think it's reasonable to wonder if they'll resign him at all, with the understanding the season is still young and his story for 11-12 is mostly yet to be written.
  19. Martin Gernat: 20, 6-12-18 +10 for the Oil Kings and his arrows are pointing in a good direction. One of the things we should remember with this player is that defensive coverage isn't as advanced as his riverboat gamber offense. How much power will he bring to the pro level? History tells us it can go away completely without PP time. Gernat is 2-6-8 with the man advantage.
  20. Ryan Martindale: 7, 0-1-1 -1 in Stockton, he hasn't posted a point since his opening night. It's been a poor pro debut; Cameron Abney has better box cars.
I'd give down arrows to three players: Tyler Pitlick, Samu Perhonen and Ryan Martindale.

This is Kyle Bigos. He's one of a few prospects outside the summer 20 who has a very good chance to make it this winter. The big man is having a strong season at Merrimack and should earn a pro contract from the Oilers summer 2012.

I'll begin the winter 20 later in the month.
--

Nation Radio is on the air today at noon (Team 1260, link to the right). Among the guests scheduled to appear:
  • Jim Byers from the OKC Barons. The team's pbp man is a great resource for Oiler fans interesting in the goings on with the farm club. I'll ask about the team's record breaking win streak and the early MVP this season.
  • Dennis King from everywhere. We'll talk about his scoring chance measurement (what counts, what doesn't), the information he gathers from those advanced stats and how he applied them. King has a good mind for these things, I'm looking forward to his thoughts on SC and the Oilers in 11-12.
  • Derek Blasutti from C&B. Dawgbone has always been an interesting read no matter where he posts, but his exceptional instructional items at Copper and Blue are music to my ears. I'll ask Derek about how he sees the game, why the Oilers frustrate him (it's only a two hour show so we won't get too far into that) and if he's ever heard of Howie Meeker.
  • James Mirtle is a stand up guy and a brilliant writer. Why is he a stand up guy? Well, years ago I linked my blog to his blog, and now even though he writes for the national fishwrap he still takes my calls on his busiest day of the week. I've been in media since most of you were in diapers and can tell you it's rare thing. Plus he's a smart guy.
  • Kent Wilson from the Nations. Kent is a regular on the show and we'll talk Flames but also discuss a new project called NHL NUMBERS PODCAST. Great information available in episode 1 and more to come, I'll ask him about future projects.
Email is nationradio@theteam1260.com and you can tweet @ItsNationRadio or @Lowetide_ with comments and questions. Hope you can join us.

    77 comments:

    1. That seems a little unfair to Pitlick. He's having as good as, or better, season than Hamilton, and is ranked lower, but gets the down arrow?

      ReplyDelete
    2. spOILer: He hasn't scored a point in some time, and Hamilton was actually a HS early on. It's early, I certainly don't think Pitlick is failing.

      Having said that, he's either going to be an "energy player" who can play 4th line minutes or a physical forward you can place on a skill line.

      His recent performances suggest the former, and that's a down arrow imo.

      ReplyDelete
    3. Heck, he has the same numbers as VV and is 4 years younger... We'd have to give VV the down arrow, no?

      ReplyDelete
    4. LT, the HS is precisely why Hamilton should be nicked more than Pitlick, IMO. That's a tell too.

      ReplyDelete
    5. Tobia Rieder looks to be full value for a 4th rounder.

      Consider this if he keeps up his pace.

      Eberle's 18 year old year in WHL compared to Rieder's in the OHL.

      Eberle 1.21pts/gm, involved in 32.7% of his team's goals

      Reider (so far) 1.17pts/gm, involved in 35% of his team's goals.

      Not saying Eberle is a Rieder comp (although they are both 5'10 wingers), but if Reider keeps those numbers up then 114th overall in the 4th round is a great place to pick up a kid with those tools.

      Stu being magnificent and a bastard.

      ReplyDelete
    6. 1. Not sure you can say that Lander's mostly held his own - he's been getting buried. Still a quality prospect, and I'd agree there aren't many down arrows there, but he doesn't belong in the NHL yet.

      2. Re: Roy - while Dubnyk did play some ECHL early in his pro career, didn't that have a lot to do with the Oilers' AAA situation at that time? Or am I confusing my timelines? In contrast, Roy went into the free agent period first on the minor league depth chart, and the Oilers' still felt the need to bring in two more guys (which was probably a good call).

      Long story short, I'm not sure the comparison between Dubnyk and Roy is fair to the former.

      ReplyDelete
    7. "SS": I'd say the Oilers previous seasons experience with injury had a lot to do with Roy's ECHL slotting.

      You're right about DD, though. SWB had three AHL goalies ahead of him in his rookie season.

      ReplyDelete
    8. After seeing back to back Barons games here in Abbotsford, I have to say that after the first game, I thought that Pitlick was way over hyped. The second game proved me wrong, though. He was a dominant player that could shield the puck well and keep position. The way Detroit players always seem to do. He was the best player on the ice from what I saw.

      Other than Omark or course. He was in a different class in game two.

      ReplyDelete
    9. With ANA struggling, i wonder if this would be an opportune time to deal a prospect or two for Mr Visnovsky. Anyone who remembers how easy he made it look getting the forwards the puck in attack position would understand why.

      ReplyDelete
    10. while Dubnyk did play some ECHL early in his pro career, didn't that have a lot to do with the Oilers' AAA situation at that time?

      Maybe
      But the Oilers followed the exact same formula with Pitton.
      And now Roy
      It appears they like it.

      ReplyDelete
    11. Not sure if ANA would move Lubo. If they're struggling, they likely will want to add someone who can help now, rather than trading those types away for futures.

      Acording to Kypreos, Tyutin is being shopped by CBJ. He's overpaid but also an upgrade on the bottom 3 D.

      Of course they'd probably want Khabby in return, who's now played his way to the other end of untradeable.

      ReplyDelete
    12. Well, if we're comparing Roy to Pitton, I think the review just got a lot more damning.

      ReplyDelete
    13. With ANA struggling, i wonder if this would be an opportune time to deal a prospect or two for Mr Visnovsky. Anyone who remembers how easy he made it look getting the forwards the puck in attack position would understand why.

      I remember, and I don't understand why.

      If this is a Cup contender and needs the final piece, sure. But this is not even a playoff team (hot start aside). Plus the Oilers will be getting Whitney back soon.

      With Whitney, Gilbert, Petry, Potter
      and possibly Barker (I am not sure what he is) the Oilers have plenty of puck movers.

      Plus Vishnovsky is 35, has but 4 points and is -7. He might be losing a step in the next year or two.

      In two or three years I bet you regret that trade.

      ReplyDelete
    14. The term on Tytuin's deal would be my only concern. I actually don't think he is overpaid at 4.5, and would be all over him if he was avaliable. He would be on our 1st pairing.

      Whitney-Tytuin
      Smid-Gilbert
      Sutton-Potter
      Barker-Peckham
      Chorney-Petry

      That would be terrific depth, although a D would probably be moved to facilitate such a deal.

      Cornet isn't on your list but his start sure has been interesting. OKC has such amazing depth this year they can seemingly play everyone against everyone. It's why they have been elite so far, and why young guys like Pitlick and Hamilton have recieved less opportunity than blue chippers usually do IMO.

      ReplyDelete
    15. Steve Smith,

      Going to the ECHL is no big deal for tenders. Current starters Mike Smith, Thomas Greiss, James Reimer and Jonathan Quick spent time there.

      ReplyDelete
    16. Wow. Putting the idea of trading Khabibulin right now is interesting. It'd be very hard for me to say no if the return was good. What that would do to the team is the question, I suppose.

      ReplyDelete
    17. As a prospect league, ECHL is OK for goons'n'goalies. With rare exceptions like Alex Burrows, not too many other NHLers spent much time there.

      ReplyDelete
    18. Helen Elliot with Visnovski news...

      Ouch: Ducks D Lubo Visnovsky expected to be out 4 wks after breaking finger blocking shot in 3d period Fri vs Van.

      ReplyDelete
    19. How did I manage to spell that incorrectly *smashes fingers*

      ReplyDelete
    20. WG:

      I also like the sounds of Rieder, and I'm not saying that I dislike EDM's 2nd and 3rd round picks over the last couple of seasons, but I am wondering if tempering enthusiasm is a good idea. The guys EDM have picked looked like good enough bets, and it's early, but it's not like a number of prospects drafted right around the same spots aren't looking just as good.

      ReplyDelete
    21. Who was Pitlick playing with?

      LT: Scott Reynolds had a detailed review of the second OKC at Abbotsford game over at C&B. Detailed lines, PP & PK units, coaching strategies ... excellent stuff.

      The short answer is Pitlick was with Cornet and Brule in that game.

      Word verification: "trading" - OMG after all this talk maybe Smid really is gone this time.

      ReplyDelete
    22. Well, there goes the Visnovsky plan. I'm also guessing that the other former Oilers puck moving d aren't exactly available right now.

      I'm back to thinking we need to clear out the bottom half our top 8 D again so as not to hold back the young'ns.

      ReplyDelete
    23. Btw, LT, when does Yann Danis crack your list of hot prospects with <50 NHL GP? (He has 49)

      I'm kidding of course, but is he ever putting up the numbers at OKC. 7-2-0, 1.76, .942, yowsa.

      ReplyDelete
    24. Trade talk aside, I'm pretty sure Lubo wouldn't come back regardless. I remember a story that was linked to either from LT or the comments section about how his wife was in tears all the time, they were miserable, and so on. Y'know, the usual.
      What a player, though. We can only hope Whitney gets healthy and stays healthy soon.

      ReplyDelete
    25. Wasn't Lubo the one who they stuck out in Ardrossan? Long road trips, lonely wife, new baby, language an issue? I think that was him/them ... it was poorly handled, for sure.

      Seems to me that's one area that has improved under Tambellini.

      ReplyDelete
    26. I remember that being Peca fo rsome reason.

      ReplyDelete
    27. 1. I'm glad we haven't engaged with the "I told you so's" to the RNH doubters. (I'm trying not to with this post.) His numbers had a problem; I get that. But in retrospect we must admit that it looks more like he had an unlucky 10-15 game goal drought early last year than that there was some kind of problem with his goal scoring ability. Again, we need TOI, SH%, Corsi, and other contextual numbers for kids in junior. Boxcars alone are so unreliable that they aren't much better than a consensus of "saw him good" from the scouts. (If it's a near-100% consensus, I'd say the boxcars are more unreliable, especially for defensemen. IMO.)

      2. That said, the kid line is showing more and more weakness on the road against tougher opp. and some of the good results are looking unsustainable. (Esp. RNH's SH%) We might need to break them up on the road. I think Hall-RNH-MPS might be good. MPS has some size, speed, and defensive ability that might create some balance. But there are lots of options.

      3. Holy cow, we have a lot of mid-tier prospects: Hamilton, Pitlick, Bunz, Hartikainen, Marincin, Klefbom, Gernat, Musil. And we have an extra 2nd next year from Cogs, right?

      It's great to have all these guys, but we already have a lot of youth in the lineup going forward. (Petry,MPS,Gagner, The Troika) But as great as that is, it creates problems/challenges. A.) It's hard to win when the kids you're playing to develop at the NHL level keep giving away too much at ES, as we saw last night. B.) It can get hard to manage the 50 contract limit while signing your kids and taking some swings at the undrafted (that's important, too, IMO).

      Granted, A.) and B.) aren't reasons to start trading kids on their own, but frankly we need some better players to win in the here and now while we're still on the ELC of the kids. (Or at least on RNH's ELC) And we haven't had great luck with UFA's. So therefore, C.) Tambo needs to add via trade for us to having a truly winning lineup.

      A plus B plus C = Trading prospects for players in their prime/vets.

      This is going to be scary. Tambo is going to have to trade, say Klefbom and MPS, or Pitlick and our 1st. The return will need to be great and he has to pick the right kids to send away. Tanking is easy. But turning this lineup into a dominant lineup: that's what separates the GM's from the Macleans' and Millbury's. You can't afford to trade away Chara for magic beans. But you also can't just sit there and hope that a couple talented kids like a young Dany Heatley, Ilya Kovalchuk, or Rick Nash will lead a lineup of talented 21 year olds to the playoffs.

      Everything about the next 5 years is based on the moves Tambellini makes. Standing pat isn't enough. IMO.

      ReplyDelete
    28. Definitely Peca was stranded. I don't recall a similar quote from the Lubo camp.

      Maybe Tambo has added a copy of Why Shoot the Teacher to the player orientation package. The book was a nice little read before the internet abducted our attention span. Set in fictional Sask. town, but filmed in Hanna. My grandfather had some spectacular 8mm film of a grain elevator fire against the night sky which I recall as Hanna or nearby. I think any grain elevator on fire is pretty spectacular. At the peak, looked about as difficult to douse as an oil well in Kuwait. Less staying power. By the next morning, rake and rebuild.

      Many of the prairie women in my family tree (and my in law tree) come from the slight build yet grin and bear it school of diligence and determination. The first souvenir my hayseed forebears obtained on their honeymoon was a jay-walking ticket for navigating an intersection kitty-corner in NYC; my dad now claims to forget this story. I tend not to doubt my mother's stories. She had encyclopedic retention of particulars. While my friends were pinching quarters, my mother would bust me for moving an item from one side of a drawer to the other. Who's been in this drawer!?! If I wanted to snoop, I had to start by making mental chalk outlines of every item. I should have grown up to become a Hollywood continuity battle droid. Each time the bed sheets were refreshed, they were put on the bed in the opposite direction to optimize wear. Whenever I compose a spy novel in my head, if I put the sheets on the bed in the same direction twice in a row, my mother reads it as a cry for help.

      These days I think the typical hockey wife would flunk the screening test for the first human Mars mission in the lobby of the orientation interview. From the Twitter generation, it will be a small miracle if anyone passes, mirrors or no mirrors. By the time this gets organized, the entire space capsule will be built from wrap-around display screens with the Chronicles of Narnia or Finding Nemo as the default screen saver. Second Life (the movie) on Ultra IMAX 360. Running time: three years. Any takers? I bet Nathan Myhrvold could figure out how to package a big bat of self-inflating pink cotton candy in a tiny plastic packet that tastes exactly like the least healthy microwave popcorn ever coated with Palm grease. Top renters: The Truman Show, Alien, The Abyss, 127 Hours, The Donner Party, House of Sand and Fog.

      That pretty much nails the hockey wife experience, right there.

      ReplyDelete
    29. I don't get that baby not wanting to go out in -27 or -30(c).

      In my day we got tossed out into the yard in -40, with Mom locking the door - to let us play on the tundra all day long.

      I can see what that newborn wondered about al the same, since it was a bitch trying to make snowmen, when snow runs through your fingers like so much water.

      ReplyDelete
    30. Where's Lubo's kids crib? Did they leave it behind? I think a burning party is in order!

      ReplyDelete
    31. Hunter lol. Me too. It was like suck it up kid, see you at supper in 2 hours.

      I didn't realize Doug Gilmour was more loved in Toronto than any of his other cities. According to the announcer at the ACC anyway.

      ReplyDelete
    32. Matt's right. The last thing we need as Oiler fans is babies dissing the Chuck.

      Like, what's next? Does someone's goldfish have to die?

      ReplyDelete
    33. Didn't Lubo sign a no trade in LA? Lombardi traded him just before it took effect I believe. No wonder he wasn't happy.

      Have to be careful with those situations. I read somewhere that Ottawa never had a chance with Chara because he was pissed at how they handled Hossa, signing him and then trading him right after.

      ReplyDelete
    34. B. Salming looking good, maybe he will suit up for the Oil...could use a good D man.

      ReplyDelete
    35. I didn't realize they'd made a movie of "Why Shoot the Teacher?" - thanks for that, DMW. I recommend the book, along with its companions, "Never Sleep Three in a Bed" and "The Night We Stole the Mounties' Car". Might be another one, too, but apparently I don't know how to use Google.

      ReplyDelete
    36. I didn't realize Doug Gilmour was more loved in Toronto than any of his other cities. According to the announcer at the ACC anyway.

      Why do you think a Career 2nd line Center made the Hall! Bottom level 1st line center dominating 2nd all thru his carreer. easy gravy

      St louis 33-84 to 87-88 Behind Bernie Federko
      CGY 88-89 to 91-92 Behind Neiwendyk.
      Tor 92-93 to 93-94 #1C
      TOR 94-95 to 96-97 Behind Sundin
      NJD 97-98 Behind Holik
      CHI 98-99 Zhamnov 99-00 Behind Sullivan & Zhamnov
      Buffalo 00-01 Behind Stu Barnes
      MTL 01-02 Perreault 02-03 Koivu Perreault

      And now Brian burke on the hall selection. Jesus.

      ReplyDelete
    37. Bruins and Wings score 11 goals tonight against Sabers and Stars. I think that puts the mope into perspective.

      "SS": To be honest, I didn't remember the film version either, but I'll probably pick it up on the next slow news day, if I manage to live that long, after my booboo at the video store last night picking up "La Belle Noiseuse" (the beautiful nuisance) as portrayed by the rivetting Emmanuelle Béart sans supporting cast.

      Not bargained for: the four hour run time. Is there some kind of super glue I can drip into the back of my eye sockets? Cause of death: Boggled orbs.

      ReplyDelete
    38. As per Tom Gazzola tweet (Oiler PR flack):

      OKC loses 3-2. Omark & Pitlick with the goals. Pitlick's a great individual effort down wall, fights off check, tucks in his own rebound.

      Nice to see Pitlick score again, sounds like a nice effort.

      Boy that Omark guy puts up points. Too bad every forward is filling the net and there is no room for him on the big club.

      ReplyDelete
    39. speeds,

      I agree.

      I can't remember the Oilers having this many prospects worth following, its great, but we are going to watch more than a few not pan out.

      ReplyDelete
    40. In his second game as a King, Colin Fraser scores from Ethan Moreau.

      ReplyDelete
    41. Hockey wives: Another reason to build through the draft.

      mushied - the quality of my thought

      ReplyDelete
    42. The arbitrator will rule that Fraser remains Oilers property, and that the Kings must forfeit every game he played in for them.

      ReplyDelete
    43. Regwald, Last year they would have waited for a game against the Oil. Things are definitely looking up.

      ReplyDelete
    44. Seguin is tracking very well.

      Perhaps we need to revisit this MBS stuff.

      ReplyDelete
    45. I think Seguin is a helluva player and man is he playing well. I also think Hall is a helluva player who isn't playing well.

      Now, history tells us that these things ebb and flow. However, if people want to make a decision now then it's all good.

      Segin may indeed be a better NHL player than Hall. I think maybe we should wait awhile before firing MBS, though.

      Maybe till Christmas?

      ReplyDelete
    46. @ LT.

      I expect both Seguin and Skinner will make that assessment a little goofy by Christmas.

      We may be looking at Taylor Moreau.

      Seguin looks like a Hart winner.

      ReplyDelete
    47. So DSF is a Dys fan, not an Oilers fan, and he thinks this is the comments section on a TSN article.

      Hall suckz! He's Moreau 2. Luuuuu rulz! Let's protest...

      Seriously, that's some pretty clear trolling. It's the definition of trolling.

      I ask that all his comments be stricken from the record until he learns to not troll. :)

      ReplyDelete
    48. In all seriousness, it's LT's blog, but I think if it were mine, I'd just erase his posts whenever I saw them. IMO. (Maybe I'm in the minority and people really like reading them....)

      ReplyDelete
    49. I've forwarded DSF's comments to Al Gore imploring him to shut down the series of tubes.

      ReplyDelete
    50. I expect both Seguin and Skinner will make that assessment a little goofy by Christmas.

      We may be looking at Taylor Moreau.


      DSF has set a new standard for internet stupidity with this post.

      No reasonable person is going to make the first call (Seguin and Skinner over Hall) after a season and a half.

      The Moreau/Hall comparison? Trolling. Plain and simple.

      ReplyDelete
    51. Ethan Moreau scored 15 goals in his sophomore season and their junior numbers were roughly comparable.

      If you think Hall is in the Seguin/Skinner conversation, I can't help you.

      It's a totally different area code.

      ReplyDelete
    52. If you think Hall is in the Seguin/Skinner conversation, I can't help you.

      Maybe you should stop trying.

      ReplyDelete

    53. If you think Hall is in the Seguin/Skinner conversation, I can't help you.


      When was there ever a Skinner/Seguin debate?

      Last time I checked, the debate always was Hall/Seguin, and 7 out of 10 scouts surveyed prior to the 2010 draft said they'd take Hall.

      Really, I don't know why Lowetide hasn't deleted this tripe as of yet.

      ReplyDelete
    54. @ SS

      5V5 P/60

      Seguin:4.11

      Hall: 1.83

      What am I missing?

      Do we need some more weak linemates excuses?

      Is Hall playing the "vaunt"?

      No he's not.

      Does he have an unfavourable zone start?

      No, he doesn't.

      Thing is, Seguin and Skinner are taking his lunch money.

      Brad Marchand too.

      ReplyDelete
    55. 5V5 P/60

      Seguin:4.11

      Hall: 1.83


      Hooray for small sample sizes.

      ReplyDelete
    56. HBomb said...


      Last time I checked, the debate always was Hall/Seguin, and 7 out of 10 scouts surveyed prior to the 2010 draft said they'd take Hall.

      Really, I don't know why Lowetide hasn't deleted this tripe as of yet.

      Wouldn't want a dissenting opinion backed by results and math would we Hbomb?

      There is no contest between Hall and Seguin.

      Reportedly, Stu wanted to pick Seguin but was overruled by Lowe/Tambellini.

      Looks like Stu knew what he was doing.

      ReplyDelete
    57. DSF is making me think that spending time on another site is a good idea. While it's a good idea to present a dissenting view, alienating posters and viewers is rarely a good option.

      Looks like a "jumped the shark" kinda posting...

      ReplyDelete
    58. @ PJO:

      His shooting percentage is at least as sustainable as Hopkins 23.3%.

      ReplyDelete
    59. Holy cow.

      Everything we see indicates that Hall is less than elite but the tall foreheads here are out with long knives to protect their HF fanboy positions.

      Good grief.

      Seguin is going to win the Hart and Hall will be an afterthought.

      Is that so hard to accept?

      ReplyDelete
    60. Wouldn't want a dissenting opinion backed by results and math would we Hbomb?

      Backed by a 15 game sample size?

      If you think that's "representative" and something you want to conclude a guy's career projections based on, well, suit yourself, troll.

      ReplyDelete
    61. Next thing I'm expecting here is some sort of "overwhelming evidence" that we should have picked Larsson instead of RNH....

      ReplyDelete
    62. @Hbomb

      Here are last years number

      Skinner - 2.49
      Grabner - 2.33
      Couture - 2.18
      Marchand - 2.15
      Ennis - 1.92
      Stepan - 1.84
      Eberle 1.82
      Hall - 1.78
      Paajarvi - 1.38

      Is that sample size large enough?

      ReplyDelete
    63. DSF: even one season isn't large enough. These are fucking teenagers, to put it bluntly.

      And I also note you conveniently excluded Seguin from said list. Where did he fit in? Or did you need to move the goalposts again to try and maintain your pathetic argument?

      ReplyDelete
    64. Don't get me wrong, I am as pro-Seguin as anyone here, but the guy is the perfect example of not developing in a straight line.

      Each of Hall, Seguin and Skinner are in three completely different situations in terms of teammates, how their coaches run their benches, etc. Trying to compare them after 100 games and determine which one is going to be the best NHL player is, simply put, an exercise in futility.

      Development does not happen in a straight line.

      ReplyDelete
    65. Seguin was being sheltered last season and I am sure you know that.

      That's what good teams do.

      He barely played until the playoffs but he was 1.44 during the regular season but 2.94 in the playoffs.

      It's amazing to me that reasonably intelligent folks here can't look at what the numbers show without attacking the messenger.

      Seguin and Skinner are putting up huge numbers and all you folks can do is go into the Kubler-Ross cycle.

      Sheesh.

      When does acceptance kick in?

      ReplyDelete
    66. Seguin was being sheltered last season and I am sure you know that.

      That's what good teams do.

      He barely played until the playoffs but he was 1.44 during the regular season but 2.94 in the playoffs.


      Oh, so NOW context matters? How convenient that you exclude the numbers when they don't support your "position".

      Once again, the goalposts are moved. Let the record show that Seguin posting a higher points-per-60 over less than a quarter season means more than Hall posting a higher number over a full season.

      Not sure how that works...then again, I'd have to have a half of my brain removed to "think" in the fashion of a Canuck fan.

      ReplyDelete
    67. At least Hall being a horrible player will make it easier to fit him under the cap.

      ...if we decide to qualify him, that is.

      ReplyDelete
    68. @ Hbomb

      I would be more than happy to entertain a bet that Seguin scores more points than Hall this season.

      If that makes our sphincter tighten too much, I would also entertain a bet that Skinner outscores Hall.

      I'd even entertain a bet that Marchand outscores Hall.

      Pick your poison.

      How does $1,000.00 sit with you?

      Or do you need more "context"?

      ReplyDelete
    69. DSF: Suggested subject for today: "And over here we have rocks from the moon. Or do we?"

      ReplyDelete
    70. Possible alternate subject:

      http://thechive.com/2011/11/08/paulina-gretzky-is-using-the-twitter-machine-properly-34-photos/

      ReplyDelete
    71. DSF: the discussion here, as I see it, isn't if Skinner/Seguin outscore Hall this season, it's whether or not they made the right choice for a 15-20 year period. And one season doesn't tell that story at all. So no, I won't bet, because it's irrelevant to the point.

      By the way, why the hell is Brad Marchand part of the conversation anyways? Isn't he part of a different draft year altogether and has the advantage of an extra 3 or so years of physical and mental maturity?

      I'm honestly surprised I woke up and found this thread 100% in-tact. Lowetide has far more tolerance for ridiculous BS than I ever could have...

      ReplyDelete
    72. Lowetide has far more tolerance for ridiculous BS than I ever could have...

      CORSI DATA? Anyone? Anyone?

      ReplyDelete