Sunday, November 20, 2011

Lust For Life

The quotes last night ranged from the sublime ("Steve Smith: What a stupid god-damned hockey team...just idiotic") to the ridiculous ("Irony can be a funny thing sometimes") and the emotions flow as the mind races.

Some observations



  • On a night when everything was beautiful, Jordan Eberle's psycho-pass to Ryan Smyth for a goal in the first period was the outer marker on the night. Sick, sick player.
  • Duncan Keith's hit on Taylor Hall was filthy, but just as he did at the Mem Cup Hall came back immediately to score and punish the opponent in the most effective way. I didn't hear a lot of running our show talk last night, hopefully a reflection of that argument gaining steam over the need for an enforcer.
  • Hall had a couple of shovel jobs, but that ripper that cleared the defender and found twine meant he was back for sure. What a tremendous shot. He's going to score a lot of goals in the NHL.
  • Ryan Nugent-Hopkins is not from this planet. I always thought he had a certain Spock-like quality but those cross ice passes that hit the stick on the fly aren't possible. If Eberle is sick, RNH is wicked-sick. Cerebral squared. Lordy.
  • I'll be starting the Top 20 prospects later this week (started last year's on November 24th, that seems about right but we'll see) and can say there are 9 forwards, 8 defenders and 3 goalies on the list.
  • The CBC coverage of the game was disappointing. I taped the game and will save it for years, but truth is that the event would have had more value if tsn had done the game. I'm not a hater of HNIC, it's been a part of my life for decades--since I was a kid--but the commentary was beyond poor. Only a top flight postgame with Scott Oake and Shawn Horcoff--an excellent After Hours--saved the broadcast.
  • I still believe trading Sam Gagner at this point is a mistake, but after a night like that one it's easy to argue he's expendable. He had 5 shots on goal, +1 (Hemmer's starter) and played 18 minutes, but he's third wheel behind RNH and Horcoff and that role can be played by Belanger all day long. Garrioch has him off to Chi-town and maybe that's the better plan. I'll miss him when he goes, smart hockey players are a rare item.
  • Garrioch's article talks about Carle from Philly and if ST is going to make a move now would be a good time. Road trip ahead through some tough enemy territory and those young hires on the blue will be exposed.
  • I tried like hell to track the line changes, but Renney wasn't exactly playing three chord rock with the forwards. Was there any rhyme to the combinations?
  • The PK didn't flourish without Petrell, I expect he'll be back in the lineup (possibly replacing Lander).
  • Jeff Petry (0-3-3 +5) has landed. Sending him down now would be idiotic.
  • Magnus Paarjarvi is lost. He needs to spend some time in OKC. If racing behind the opposition net were rewarded he'd be Gretzky.And it isn't TOI because he played more than Eberle, the kid's just off the rails. It happens, a trip to the farm where he can kick the daylights out of the AHL and get PP time is a good thing.
  • Theo Peckham had his best game of the season.
  • Ben Eager played 10:18, about 7 minutes more than he should have. The only other player I thought was poor (Teubert) is a rookie callup. One performance understandable, the other maybe due to concussion residue.
  • Good for Tom Gilbert. He's a man.

92 comments:

  1. What planet do you suppose RNH is from? Could it be the same one Dead Man Walking reports from?

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  2. Jim Matheson's Hockey World has Gagner trade ideas as well.
    Word verification litsups, Chicago last night.

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  3. Clarkenstein: lol.

    dawgtoy: Thanks, I'll head over.

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  4. Was at game. Totally reminescient of the early 80's Oilers. Sick skill and I am not talking about Ryan jones goal ( but it is "if" not how). Last nights game was a paid advertisement for #1 free agent D, come to Edmonton and your stats and success will flourish.

    Oilers believe RNH is key to power play. They try nearly always to get him the puck and let him see the attackers.

    When Oil have a good D theynwill make noise

    Reminds one of Pat Price/Doug Hicks D, ok but nowhere near at level of the forwards

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  5. Thought Gagner had a bad game, twirly passes to nowhere by times.

    Hall has taken 100 of those shots, good to see one go throught the defender's legs, not end up deflected into the mesh or not go wide.

    Would like to see 91 on the right side, so when/if he hopefully learns to cut into the middle on the rush he will have a forehand option instead of a backhand. (Could still sneak some backhand shots off if stays outside the D and doesn't cut in)

    Boy Gilbert is earning his dough this year, it's great to see. Keep it up.

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  6. Oh the EUUUUPHHHORRRRIIIIIIAAAAA!

    I feel like Tiny Timming through the tulips.

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  7. Matty mentions that the Islanders are looking for a second line center and may be trying to move Okposo.

    If we're going to move Gagner, Okposo is the kind of player we should be looking to get back - another lottery pick having a tough start to the season and who might need a change of scenery.

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  8. I'm in agreement with Marc. While I'm generally disinterested with suggestions of trading Gagner and still think he should be part of the "mix" going forward (because there's no "guilt" in having a Belanger-centered checking line being the 4th line on this hockey club), Okposo is the type of return they'd need to look at.

    RW with some size and skill. Bob Stauffer drew a "poor-man's Iginla" comparisonn when talking about Okposo a couple year's back. Hell, I'd take a James Neal facsimilie at this point, thank you very much.

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  9. Relating to last night's game: LT has a nostalgia post about Messier, Hall has a hat trick.

    Are we seeing a new Weir-esque posting superstition??

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  10. A guy like Okposo is one of the few trades I would make involving Ganger. Gagner is a little redundant in the Oilers Org and Isles have Niederreiter to help fill that PF roll.

    Add in the fact that Josh Bailey seems lost, I think the Isles just might bite on a Gagner for Okposo swap.

    Plus the Oilers and Isles love to trade for some reason.

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  11. After laast night I thought we'd be right back on the "are the Oilers for real?" track.

    But atleast the sky is no longer falling.

    For a day, atleast.

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  12. From TSN:

    The last time the Oilers had three players with four-point nights was Jan. 30, 1991, when Mark Messier, Petr Klima and "Steve Smith" did it.

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  13. I didn't mind the CBC coverage quite as much as you did, LT, although Jeff Petrty's cloak of invisibility did extend to those guys as well. Even when they showed a close-up of him leaking blood on the bench they called him Taylor Chorney FFS.

    But they made up for it with a beauty After Hours show as you point out. Outstanding stuff, and not just from the guest. Highlight for me was when they showed John Horcoff celebrating the 1975 University Cup with Clare Drake's Golden Bears - now that's attention to detail.

    I hope every Horc hater in Oilerland saw that interview and was immediately converted to goodness and righteousness. The guy is a beauty.

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  14. Oilers need their trade chips to up their value before attempting the big deal for a top 4 D-man.

    Any deal at this point would likely be for depth D-men, which is still needed.

    Thought Franson looked ok last night for The Burkees. He was obviously being showcased after they were up big.

    I'm giving Gagner until the end of the road trip before I unload on him, but man I'm losing patience.

    He's slower and he wasn't fast to begin with (assume it's the ankle still).
    5 Shots last night - If I'm the oposition I'm letting him shoot all night long casue his shot hasn't had the velocity or accuracy to beat any goalie so far.

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  15. @SK

    The Leafs won't be moving Franson now with Komisarek out for 8 weeks with a broken arm.

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  16. Okposo? Aren't we looking for help on D?

    First rounders of the Isles have been known to fall off after being traded to Edmonton. Nilsson and Torres come to mind.

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  17. @Slipper: Just wait until the back to back games against Dallas and Nashville.

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  18. How about Eric Brewer? He didn't fall off. Torres played his best hockey in the NHL here in Edmonton.

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  19. And Horc was great on After Hours

    Weekes has to go - he said Nice! about 10 times everytime Horc talked.

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  20. Yup, Brewer is one good one, but you're really reaching with Torres. You mean the guy who repeatedly lost battles along the boards and couldn't get the puck out of his own end?

    He was supposed to be a talented power forward, but really only showed power, no talent. Not a bad depth player, but hardly a player who teams covet.

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  21. With Jones scoring his 5th goal last night he has already matched Lowetide's reasonable expectations.

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  22. DSF - True enough. I was just contradicting a post by someone a while back about Franson being junk.
    When all current Oil D are healthy he'd be a 5-6 D man but healthy D are a rarity in these parts.

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  23. While we're on the topic of poor broadcasts - Rod Black and Duane Ford will be entertaining me for the next 3 hours.

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  24. In fairness to Weekes, he said Nice! as frequently as Horcoff said "Good question"

    Now just wait until we upgrade our D so we can compete with the big boys regularly

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  25. Tratkor: Which means he'll exceed them. Good for him, having a fine season.

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  26. Wow. What a brutal schedule.4 back-to-backs in under three weeks. Though, they have a pretty soft home stand going into the beginning of December.

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  27. Unloading Gagner at this point doesn't make much sense for a few reasons.

    First, we're talking about unloading a lottery pick who is performing well below his established level of ability.

    Prior to this season, he was averaging 49 points per 82 games. Those are 2C numbers. He doesn't bring the slickness of Hemsky or the lottery kids, but that's a pretty consistent track record for a 22 year old.

    His EV numbers the past 4 years:

    fourth year - 1.91
    third year - 1.56
    second year - 1.69
    first year - 1.96

    His qualcomp looks like this:

    fourth year (-0.013)
    third year (-0.059)
    second year (-0.036)
    first year (-0.008)

    Gagner has been pretty reliable in terms of his EV production (albeit against soft opp). At worst, the player is an average 2C already.

    Secondly, we have to be mindful of the eventual drop-off of Horcoff (age 33) and Belanger (age 34). Trading Gagner off for a D sounds like a nice idea, but I'm not sure that we can count on Horcoff and Belanger to be what they are next year, never mind two seasons from now.

    If Horc falls off, is everyone comfortable with Lander as the 2C? I don't think he's shown he can handle 4th line comp at evens, to be honest, and I don't believe in the offensive upside at all at this point.

    Finally: if you can't be patient with Gagner now, are there any other circumstances in which you would allow a 22 year old C to struggle for more than a 10 game stretch? He's playing behind Horcoff and Nugent-Hopkins, he's coming off an injury, he's seeing fewer cherry minutes than he used to with lesser linemates and no first unit PP time.

    I agree that 89 hasn't looked good, but I'm not so sure:

    a) That we can plug someone into his spot with a better track record who will be a good bet to outperform him long-term

    b) That the organization has the C-depth to replace him should he be moved for a dman and

    c) That a swap of under-performing forwards represents anything more than flipping a coin at a valuable position AND where we would probably be at significant risk for getting lesser value for an under-performing asset.

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  28. Ben Eager played 10:18, about 7 minutes more than he should have. The only other player I thought was poor (Teubert) is a rookie callup. One performance understandable, the other maybe due to concussion residue.


    Renney was pretty clearly trying to get Eager and MPS some extra ice when the game got out of hand. Eager even got some PP time. Class move and hopefully it helps to get them going.

    Got some tickets given to me last night and took my 12 year old son who plays Pee Wee. He has always enjoyed playing but was not much of a fan.

    Sat in the 6th row and watched the Oilers put up 5 in the first from up close. His eyes were like saucers watching the speed and size of the players. Watched them come from the dressing room. Chanted "we want 10!".

    He still was smiling this morning.

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  29. @Ducey. Beautiful. Enjoy those times....they don't last long enough!

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  30. 9 thoughts in honour of the game last night:

    1. The Edmonton Oilers are still the team we thought they would be.
    ;o)

    2. I hate to make the reference, but that was a very Gretzky-like game from the Madman last night. Never in the centre of any of the photos, but is the reason why the flash went off. Quietly makes the tough plays along the boards and on the back checks, and then makes the perfect pass. Quiet greatness. And then, low and behold, at the end of the game, there's a 5 beside his name.

    3. That wasn't a monkey or even a gorilla riding Hall's back. That was Mount fucking Kilimanjaro. Gone. Hope he relaxes a bit now. By Jesus, the kamikaze element scares me though.

    4. OTOH, Despite Samwise being gifted with Gumby and Hemmer as his linemates, and thereby bequeathed with numerous scoring opportunities, he was held scoreless. His linemates made him look slow and redundant to the play. I don't believe Sam has lost a step at all. In fact I think his speed has improved since he joined the league. However the team around him has gotten a lot faster. What concerns me about his skating is his lack of balance and strength. He is knocked down far too easily.

    I'm not surprised he is being shopped. And he's on the right line to be showcased. He had the most time on ice of any Oiler forward and could not get a point on a 9 goal night. That's not good.

    5. I do think a trade is a good idea. Potter is out a month and Sutton 10 days, Barker gone for a long stretch, Whitney is unreliable, and more injuries are inevitable. This team is good enough right now that the number one goal should be to get these group into the playoffs for some experience.

    Should Gagner be that guy out the door? I don't know. I largely belong in the same camp as Thiru above and hate giving up skilled forwards. I would add to his argument that we don't what Paajarvi will be either.

    6. What a block by Lander on that last PK of the first. Real gutsy. At the end of the day, Lander got more ice time than MPS.

    7. Gilbert likely had his best game as an Edmonton Oiler. Just wow. Nice to see an actual plan on a 5 on 3 for a change.

    8. Khabby played well and redeemed his bad start the other night, but I would give him a break and go back to Dubnyk for the next two games.

    9. See #1.

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  31. So let's pretend the D is healthy in a month (minus Barker), what kind of quality is:

    5-77
    6-58/44
    25-44/58

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  32. Thiru: good post, an RNH-like rookie performance (unless it was one of the regulars logged in under their significant other's account).

    While there are some Gagner trade scenarios that might make sense, the facts remain:

    a) This team is likely 2-3 seasons away from being a legit contender

    b) In three years, will Horcoff be a 2C or a strong 3C? Will Belanger even be here? What is Lander's upside?

    c) Gagner is 22. Lots of room to grow, with a nice resume already built up.

    d) Trading him now would be "selling low".

    Plenty of good arguments for keeping the guy. Personally, unless it's a knock-the-socks-off offer (Okposo would be very intriguing and may meet that qualifier), I think patience is the better course.

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  33. Oh and Hemsky had a much better game. Adding Hall to his line was like adding potassium to water.

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  34. speeds: I like the blue as follows

    Whitney-Potter
    Smid-Gilbert
    Sutton-Petry
    Peckham

    With Petry taking over from Potter when he's ready. The problem with the entire discussion is Whitney. If he's healthy, trading for another blue isn't vital.

    If he isn't, and he hasn't been, then it's so important doing it yesterday is too late.

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  35. Whitney is definitely key to the whole D situation. But I think it is fair to say his health needs an insurance policy. Live and in person.

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  36. Regarding Whitney, he's going to be in the same spot at this deadline that Penner and Hemsky were last season.

    If he gets healthy and plays well, might trading him and utilizing his salary on a more reliable defensive alternative to fill out the top four (Ryan Suter, perhaps) be a smart play?

    Just a thought.

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  37. I watched the entire game last night and wow, I was transformed back to my teens. Yeah I know that's a long time ago and a totally different era of hockey, but for once I was excited for each and every shirt with anticipation and not dread.

    I'm like Spoiler and Tiny Timming through the frozen tulips hidden under 8 inches of snow!

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  38. Sid the Kid to play against the Isles on Monday per TSN.

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  39. Everytime Lowetide brings up Mark Messier, it brings the team serious mojo.

    I predicted the team would blow someone out, but not the Hawks.

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  40. I can't see Chicago as a match in a Gagner trade as heavily rumored today.

    The only potential top 3 young defenseman they have is Leddy, and they're not moving them.

    Also, I'd hope Tambellini would have enough sense not to send Gagner to a team we could be playing in the playoffs the next 5 years, especially since Kane and Gagner played great together in junior.

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  41. The only reason Crosby hasn't played already is because they wanted him to play his first game at home. I don't know why they didn't just anounce it on Wednesday.


    As for last night's game, that's the most fun I've had watching this team in a long time.

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  42. LT - we need another D to displace Sutton mainly. He's just not good enough for regular duty and will get beat by good teams. If we can run:

    Whitney-Potter
    Gilbert-Smid
    new#3-Petry

    We'll be laughing. That's a very balanced crew that can move the puck like crazy.

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  43. LMHF:

    Well, if we want to dream,


    Suter-Gilbert
    Whitney-Potter
    Smid-Petry

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  44. I think the big push for a D might come this summer. First round pick, a bunch of guys NAS likes for the right to sign Weber for 10 years.

    That would be my guess.

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  45. Should be mentioned that what the Goilers did last night was score first.

    Hemsky with a me vs. team move and top corner beauty. Oilers need that catalyst early. The added 'fuckin' rights' to accentuate from Edmonton Ales(I'd drink it).

    RNH is a wizard dressed as a hockey player with a lightning bolt disguised as a stick.

    Hall is a bull in a glass bottle...Smyth is a..

    Seems like Gagner is gonna be traded for a dman so that definitely won't happen.

    Off Topic: Interesting that an American wipes out the golden goal Canadian and a Canadian wipes out the US starting goalie. No suspension from Canadian head disciplinarian. Maybe not but all above are facts.

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  46. LT

    One thing about Weber is few in league would want to run our skill guys if Weber is dressed. But not sure that Suter might not be a better pickup for our roster

    On that note time to shut off CFL game

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  47. If Carle could be had for a pick or pick plus prospect I'd be all over it. Decent 27 yr old Dmen with 6 years experience that can score at a .45 clip and stay on the + side of the ledger don't come along every day. Isn't exactly Driving Miss Corsi but he sure wouldn't hurt this team. He's likely to come in next year north of $4M but I can see some almost Gilbert/Whitney comps there and ST has the room.

    Like some have said I can't see the Hawks being a strong trade possibility but if the Isles were willing to do Okposo straight up for Gagner I'd do that deal in a heartbeat.

    If someone had told me there was a chance RNH could be #20 overall in scoring and #9 amongst centres, and that Smyth could be #17 OV and #4 amongst LW's at the quarter mile post I'd have nodded and said there was about the same chances of me spending a bawdy weekend at the JPL with Christina Hendricks.

    I'm googling her personal info now and have a large suite with a very durable Tempur-Pedic reserved.

    muffect: some of these just write themselves don't they?

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  48. It's a great point that both 10-20 might not be ready to help out 93 once the Oilers day comes and that 57 isn't really anything to invest in at this moment.

    So, while I don't think 89's trade value is zero right now; another 20 games like this and you wonder what he's worth.

    Okposo is intriguing just because his size brings an element we don't have. Some warning signs with him though with the lack of production

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  49. IMO, there's no reason to bring in Carle if you aren't getting Pronger too. The Carle that plays with Pronger is a VERY different Carle that plays without him. One of them is decent, and the other is garbage.

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  50. I don't like trading Gagner.

    As others mentioned time is ticking on 20 and 10. If someone like Pitlick or 57 comes up in the next couple years to eat his lunch then fine, but right now there is no replacement with 93 being 1C and 10 being tough minute C.

    Don't forget that spreading out the scoring a bit really helps some of the scoring lines see softer D pairing.

    Look at last night:

    4-89-83
    94-93-14
    57-10-28
    55-20-91

    Here is the top 4 Oiler forwards the CHI D saw 5v5 (CHI D sorted by 5v5 TOI)

    Leddy (15:50)

    Gagner 6.5
    Hemsky 5.9
    Hall 5.2

    Hjalmarsson (15:31)

    Gagner 8.0
    Hemsky 7.3
    Hall 6.6

    Keith (14:32)

    Paajarvi 6.0
    Lander 5.7
    Horcoff 4.3

    Scott (12:26)

    Lander 5.1
    Gagner 5.0
    Jones 4.2

    Montador (11:57)

    RNH 5.3
    Eberle 4.6
    Smyth 3.9

    O'Donell (11:33)

    RNH 4.6
    Smyth 4.1
    Eberle 4.0

    With Quenville wanting to run Keith behind Hossa and Toews (and with Seabrook out), that leaves pairs 2 and 3 to have to deal with 2 offensive lines.

    83 is still their biggest worry so Leddy and Hjalmarsson draw that duty.

    That leaves two big slow D to watch 94-93-14.

    If you don't have 83 drawing the best available pair, then the best available pair plays 94-93-14.

    If you don't have a good offensive C for 83, then 83 becomes less effective.

    Having 89 (or someone like him)around to center 83 is key to getting softer ice for 93.

    I happened last night just like you would draw it up.

    This is why I've been harping on 89-83 for a while, it opens up a lot of ice for 93.

    Hope Renney sticks with it and hope Tambellini keeps 89 unless he's being replaced with an offensive C or else you lose that balance and 93 gets way tougher D pairs to play.

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  51. I would rather trade Gagner for a draft pick that can be used at a later time to trade for a real D.

    I mean, I would move Gagner for Okposo or another struggling player with potential but having picks in the bank is nice for a rainy day.

    If we could get Chicago's 1st I would do that trade right now but I fear Gagner's value has lowered to the 2nd round.

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  52. I'm not discounting 4's effect on drawing good D pairs, but as soon as 83 come off the IR 4-93-14 stopped seeing 1st D pairs and they all chased 83.

    You need the two scoring lines for this whole thing to work so you can't trade 89 without having a replacement, and 20 isn't it.

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  53. I don't know. At this point the value of a mid to late round first to the Oilers is somewhat limited. If they pick someone 20th in the 2012 draft, he'll probably turn pro in 2014 and start helping about 2016, 6 years after Hall turned pro.

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  54. 4. OTOH, Despite Samwise being gifted with Gumby and Hemmer as his linemates, and thereby bequeathed with numerous scoring opportunities, he was held scoreless. His linemates made him look slow and redundant to the play. I don't believe Sam has lost a step at all. In fact I think his speed has improved since he joined the league. However the team around him has gotten a lot faster. What concerns me about his skating is his lack of balance and strength. He is knocked down far too easily.

    I think it's really about the lack of agility for Gagner and I'm not sure there's really much that can be done about it at his age. Usually a young kid turning pro can add straight-ahead speed simply by strengthening the legs alone but agility is much more of a technical skill that you need to develop during your formative years. By the time you reach the NHL, pretty much what you see is what you get.

    And that's an important skill for Gagner to have given the type of game he plays (or at least trying to...). As a playmaker, he needs to be able to always turn quickly to face the play and survey his options. As a smaller guy he needs to be able to execute quick evasive maneuvers when closely checked. He does neither well. And notice how much better RNH and Eberle are at doing both. It's night and day. And it has a lot of do with the differences in their skating agility.

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  55. Peckham and that mid to late first should get you a D man that could help now.

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  56. WG - Sam isn't doing anything offensively and is turning the puck over way too much. He's got a very simple job if he's playing with Hall and Hemsky, and that's to simply play strong positional hockey and not screw up possession. He can have a couple more games trying to prove that he can do that...but I don't know if he can.

    I really thought he'd wind up a better Jarret Stoll...but we'd be laughing our way to wins if Stoll was 4 and 83's C right now, but that's not Gagner at present.

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  57. Lowetide:

    It doesn't mean you have to use the pick. What I'm saying is 1st round picks always have value to 30 teams whereas Gagner or Okposo ect are limited to teams that are looking to fill a certain role by a certain type of player. Draft picks are like gold in that you can always trade them for fair price.

    An extra 1st round pick gives the team a ton of options.

    Having said that, 2012 looks like the best draft since 2003.

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  58. WG is absolutely right.

    I really like RNH-Horcoff-Gagner as our top 3 guys, with Belanger around to fill in, PK, etc.

    (My prior position was that Belanger was necessary to play a defensive game.)

    When you have three strong C's, that covers a lot of weakesses elsewhere. You can't have too many excellent C's. (We can't count on Lander for anything yet. He's been over his head. I like his future, but he's at least 12 mo.s away from not getting killed, IMO.)

    Gagner is lost right now, and MPS is too. But both players have a pretty decent, established level of play and lots of likelihood that they'll improve given thei age. (It's not like either guy is 24.) Each will at least be 40-50 point, excellent 2nd line players. And each might be a solid first line player, too.

    At least give them another 10 games to get things going before moving them for magic beans.

    That said, the Oil will need to trade for an excellent D-man. And they'll have to trade quality to get that D-man.

    I suspect it's MPS who goes.

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  59. I wish everyone would sober up and realize that Gagner is 21 years old. Chill the hell out and enjoy the game, quit criticizing the kid.

    Relax...something dumb oiler fans can't do.

    Patience with Gagner could be the key to a long playoff run.

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  60. LT: who are the ladies in the first and third pics? Especially the first

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  61. Right click on the photos and select save as...then google.

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  62. I mean, guys stuggle for 10-20 game stretches sometimes. Kesler has 2 goals and 7 points in 15 games, and he's elite: just a little off right now. Penner is in the toilet. (Looking for food?) Bt he'll recover to be an excellent player again.

    And younger guys have more of these stretches.

    Let's not let Satan, Cleary, Ray Whitney, Glencross, and Hejda go for next to nothing, again.

    Again, 23 or 24 is when most fowards emerge, and that's when the slack ends. (The RNH's are rare gifts.)

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  63. The ladies are:

    1. Soledad Miranda, an actress from Spain who died in 1970 (car accident).

    2. Claudia Cardinale, famous actress.

    3. Diana Rigg, who was Emma Peel in the Avengers.

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  64. I don't understand trading Gagner. He is at a low value right now. He is of an age that fits with our nucleus. He has pedigree and plays a position that projects as a need in a few years.

    Let's all keep in mind that every day Hemsky isn't signed is another day closer to him getting moved. Remember the Smyth trade. There was a general sense that he was going get signed up until the deadline and then bam, a player, a pick and a prospect comes back from NYI.

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  65. I remember an old ep of Married with Children where the boys were talking about Emma Peel's "high kicks." I know a lot of people think that show was stupid but I really liked it and it spawned Christina Applegate who is really one of the women who possess the rare combo of being both hot And funny. These days I think that Kaley Cucco from Big Bang Theory has the same kind of chops.

    Anyway, when Al and Griff teamed up on MWC, it was required viewing.

    As for #1, dear Jesus. Just did a search and realized I have seen her in Vampyros Lesbos all those years ago on Showcase:)!

    That come hither look? Dear jesus. that's the kind of look that makes you spend all your money and make you forget your friends

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  66. Dennis: Yep. And wake up in a Turkish prison.

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  67. Dennis, in the role of Billy Hayes, would be the first guy voluntarily let out of a Turkish prison after one week. Because the guards could not take it any more!! Deadman Walking reprises the John Hurt role as Dennis' friend

    Midnight Express completely changed how I backpacked through Eastern Europe. Most scary movie

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  68. Also remember in mid/late 80's wishing Neil Sheehy got caught selling drugs in Turkey. Just for the comic relief!!

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  69. I really thought he'd wind up a better Jarret Stoll...but we'd be laughing our way to wins if Stoll was 4 and 83's C right now, but that's not Gagner at present.

    I have no problem upgrading 89, but getting rid of him and expecting current players to move around to fill the spot probably won't work.

    Say you trade 89 for a D, then you have :

    94-93-14
    4-10-83

    Which looks good to me, but one reason the Oilers have won as many as they have is the tough minutes 10 is playing.

    If you play 4-10-83 as tough minutes, you are losing a lot of offensive time and working tough D match ups and we are back to 2 lines where the opposing coach can happily play his both pairing without worry.

    20 might be able to anchor a tough minute line, but he has no one to run with if 94 and 10 are playing elsewhere.

    89 or an offensive C is needed for this line up to be optimized against opposing D.

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  70. Agent to NHL Player Client: "It comes down to two teams: Vancouver wants you for their 2012 run for the playoffs, and Edmonton says you can get powerplay practice with the Kid Line".

    NHL Player Client to Agent: "Canucks suck. Call Edmonton."

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  71. Dennis:

    My favorite thing from Married With Children was the "No Maam" meetings where Jefferson would back up everything Al would say and then Marcey would show up and Jefferson would take of his "No Maam" T-shirt and he would have a "Yes Maam" shirt on underneath. Jefferson was the best.

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  72. Nobody, NObody, talks about an actress' chops while she's still just a TV player.

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  73. PB: Yeah, mon nights could be magical at times:)

    It was great to see Jefferson go from a guy who was totally whipped to a full fledged member of No Maam.

    Still, I'm a Griff guy:)

    TOJ: did you really backpack through Eastern Europe?

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  74. WG - Agreed on the need for a replacement if #89 is dealt.

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  75. Finding a third line centre who can score more than Gagner in that role is just not that difficult.

    Kyle Wellwood...15PTS...700K cap hit

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  76. 2010-2011:

    Wellwood - 0.371 PPG
    Gagner - 0.618 PPG

    2009-2010:

    Wellwood: 0.333 PPG
    Gagner: 0.603 PPG

    2008-2009:

    Wellwood: 0.365 PPG
    Gagner: 0.539 PPG

    I do not think that "more" means what you think that it means.

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  77. And sure, maybe Gagner got more icetime, so let's look at 5v5 points/60

    2010-2011:

    Wellwood: 1.55
    Gagner: 1.91

    2009-2010:

    Wellwood: 1.30
    Gagner: 1.56

    2008-2009:

    Wellwood: 1.09
    Gagner: 1.69

    2007-2008:

    Wellwood: 0.97
    Gagner: 1.96

    But feel free to explain to us how Gagner, as an Oiler, was playing with elite teammates, while Wellwood was stuck with those scrubs in Vancouver and San Jose.

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  78. I have a feeling those goalposts are going to go for a stroll anytime now.

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  79. We can debate Gagner's talents all we want but the real reason NOT to trade him is injuries. Say RNH gets hurt, do you move Belanger up? Belanger is fine Horcoff insurance, and Gagner is fine RNH insurance and as we've seen a million times injuries happen. We have decen't depth on the wings in the farm but nobody at C unless somebody out there still thinks Brule will one day be an NHL center.

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  80. Dennis

    In the early 80's and it was truly a different time. Yugoslavia while it was a single wildly dysfunctional country. Hungary ...Buda and Pest And if you have not seen it, watch Midnight Express. Very good but scary movie

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  81. It was a Movie out a guy who was guilty.

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  82. 2011/12

    5V5 P/60

    Wellwood 2.26

    Gagner 0.44

    TOI/G

    Wellwood 14:43

    Gagner 14:10

    It's the first season when these players have been cast in similar roles since, in the past, Gagner has been fed first line minutes and significant PP time.

    No contest.

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  83. How much of Gagner's historically superior 5v5 scoring do you suppose is attributable to his powerplay time? I have a hypothesis, but I'd need to see more hard data to know for sure.

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  84. 2011/12

    5V5 P/60

    Wellwood 2.26

    Gagner 0.44

    Kesler 0.35

    TOI/G

    Wellwood 14:43

    Gagner 14:10

    Kesler 12:22

    It's the first season when these players have been cast in similar roles since, in the past, Gagner has been fed first line minutes and significant PP time.

    No contest.


    Following your logic, you would want VAN to trade Kesler for Wellwood then.

    Good to know.

    Should I call Gillis or will you?

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  85. misfit said...
    IMO, there's no reason to bring in Carle if you aren't getting Pronger too. The Carle that plays with Pronger is a VERY different Carle that plays without him. One of them is decent, and the other is garbage



    Actually Carle has logged a larger percentage of playing time with Coburn, Gustafsson, and Meszaros this year than Pronger. +1 during the time Pronger was out with injury so...

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  86. I might add that Carle has scored 78% of his points at EV. Pronger has scored 67% of his on the PP.

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  87. In an interesting twist of fortunes, that Columbus 1st round pick proposal doesn't look like an overpay situation anymore (as it did last year the deadline). :-P

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  88. Holy Sirens of Titan, LT, I've got the jimmy leg. Never thought my celestial whereabouts was any great mystery despite Jerry Garcia dropping the can.

    Nugent is solving iterated simultaneous equations of common knowledge in real time at maximum heart rate while doing precision edge work. Easy peasy.

    Common knowledge is that thing about whether he knows that you know that he knows you didn't look. Every observation and decision changes the equations. He's not solving the whole system all the time, but he's solving enough of it fast enough that no-one else on the ice can keep pace, so long as he presses the tempo.

    If you're really good at this, when you are looking at a player who can see something you can't see (e.g. the guy trailing the play) then you *know* what he knows, because his behaviour betrays it, at least enough to organize your eyeballs to pick it up in your peripheral vision for a laser to tape.

    Partly this works because you develop habits to force the players you are looking at to betray things you can't see. Same instincts as poker in many ways. Takes years and years and years of practice.

    If the opposition closed their eyes when he skated toward them, he would start missing those blind passes--not that he would bother to make them confronted with a troop of see-no-evil monkeys on blades.

    I remember a comment from a poker professional about teaching poker to celebrities, to the effect that it was very hard for him to play well because "if they don't know what hand they hold, you don't know either". You lay down thinking the celeb has king pair to your ace pair, and then she goes "oh, does that make a straight, too?" with no trace of irony. The Paris Hilton is the best bluff in poker.

    Same thing with the McCreary hit. Your great mind is busy expecting your opponent to have a clue what they're supposed to be doing, madly filling in the blanks elsewhere on the ice, then BLAM!

    Sometimes at ultra speed chess, the GMs will make half a dozen moves with one of the kings in a discovered check, completely blind to this because the position is broken as a result of previous speed-chess blunders.

    Likewise, a guy like Nugent presumes competence and structure. It's the incompetent player who poses the risk of morphing into an invisible gorilla--not that he'll face many rookie call-ups. One of these days he'll go too deep and get totally clocked.

    If I'm on my bike pounding away and monitoring traffic around me aggressively, which I do, I have barely enough grey matter remaining to navigate home. I really don't know how he combines the mental and physical.

    I think a big part of his gift is knowing how to stay within his limits. He can't do all of that, all of the time. He's happy to play hot potato speed-chess while he collects his wits. Hemmer, OTOH, comes at you with a suited 56 so hard you mortgage your jockstrap. Entirely transparent, yet he flops the straight-flush more often than god intended. Whether that makes up for busting out on the turn and the river so often is open to debate.

    Probably a good coach with a good team can come up with a game plan to defend against RNH. Hemmer not so much, if his rabbit foot is glowing. Does it glow often enough?

    On a good day with this bunch, it's The Incredibles act one. Teddy finds his super suit! (Don't they tell rookies about chicks and super suits?) On a bad day, it's The Incredibles act two (teamwork not included in the superpower inventory). Maybe someday soon Taylor pulls off The Incredibles act three which we've all been waiting for.

    Here's hoping Renney ripped a good "No capes!" monologue to bring the boys back to earth. For some reason I have this image of the old video game Joust with Logan hatching birds on one side, and O'Hare hatching birds on the other, and nothing but turbine food in between.

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  89. the only way that picture could be better is if it was Marisa Tomei's mother.

    Seriously, LT has peaked when it comes to posting pictures.

    That's the kind of woman that would make you miss G6 of Det/Edm in '06.

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