The Bruins could (and should) have won more Stanley's in the Orr decade, but they made a lot of poor off-ice decisions and it cost the organization dearly. Even if we take only their goaltending decisions in 1972 it gives us an idea about just how badly the entire thing was botched. GM Milt Schmidt protected Gerry Cheevers, although the veteran would later jump to the WHA same summer. Boston lost outstanding young G prospect Daniel Bouchard to Atlanta in that summer's expansion draft, so lost two quality goaltenders that July.
Eddie Johnston was uneven as a starter, and veteran minor leaguer Ross Brooks plus young John Adams weren't deemed worthy of playoff starts. So on March 3, 1973, Boston traded their first round pick (who would become D Ian Turnbull, a pretty good hockey player) and a player to be named later (Eddie Johnston would be sent away in May as the PTDNL--it was a crazy time).
Who did they acquire?
This is Jacques Plante. Boston paid dearly for a few games at the end of the regular season and 2 playoff appearances. Boston finally solved their G problems with Gilles Gilbert by trading one of their centers (Fred Stanfield) to Minnesota. Soonafter Cheevers would return and settle the position down.
My hope for this Bruin team is that they make better decisions with their fine hockey team. Boston fans deserve it and lord knows they've suffered enough. I was a Bruin fan all down the line, right up until 1979 when the Oilers arrived. Part of me still cheers for them and I cheered like mad for them last spring. I hope they win another Stanley soon.
--
Jonathan Willis has an excellent piece over at the EJ today, it really brings into focus the enormous push we're seeing for the kid line. Dennis King has wondered recently (here and there) about breaking up that line, especially on the road where results are poor for the youngsters.
The 5x5/60 numbers show exactly where the offense ends:
- Ales Hemsky 3.75
- Ryan Smyth 3.43
- Jordan Eberle 2.40
- Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 1.99
- Taylor Hall 1.78
- Ryan Jones 1.65
- Shawn Horcoff 1.50
- Lennart Petrell 1.02
- Ben Eager 0.79
- Sam Gagner 0.67
- Anton Lander 0.49
- Magnus Paajarvi 0.42
- Eric Belanger 0.38
Belanger isn't doing a lot offensively, I think the wise move in terms of line shuffling might look like this:
- Horcoff-Smyth-Hemsky
- RNH-Halll-Eberle
- Gagner-Jones-Paajarvi
- Belanger-Lander-Petrell
--
Edmonton has about a 5% chance of winning tonight. Bruins aren't all the way healthy but they are skilled, big, mean and Chara. The Oilers defenseman are going to be iced during and after the game.


This is the biggest test so far.
ReplyDeleteLose and it's expected; win and wtf suddenly Oilers are a bona fide hockey team.
Interesting game in TB last night. I can't see how the NHL could reprimand either franchise but it sure didn't look great for a league which is enjoying extra attention during the prolonged NBA lockout.
ReplyDeleteYes, the team currently in 3rd overall has about a 5% chance of beating the team that is 27th overall.
ReplyDeleteI realize that both of those rankings are not quite accurate in terms of where the teams 'should be', however, %5 suggests that it is about 20-1 for the Oilers to win. I think that is a bet I might mortgage the house for.
I think the odds of Khabibulin winning the game all by himself are currently higher than 5%.
I think LT makes such predictions for the good of the team - the only thing missing is a 'book it'.
That was quite a game in TB - I don't think the league should do anything until it becomes an ongoing problem.
ReplyDeleteThat 'waiting' anticipation is actually well loved in American sports. It gives people time to go get a beer.
Screw the Bruins :/
ReplyDeleteGoilers?
The not Advancing the puck Whistle has Potential. I would love to see it for players sheilding the puck along the Boards.
ReplyDeleteIn offensive zone, blown and Faceoff in your end. Blown and your the cause in your end. Delay of game.
I hope Hall comes out and has the game of his life against Seguin, but I have feeling that that factor is only going to cause him to come out pressing even more than he has been lately.
ReplyDeleteBut who knows, maybe this is the night he really clicks in to that next gear.
A good test tonight. Bruins are a tough matchup for the Oilers. Big, a little mean. If they (Boston) come ready to play and to build on this past week then it may be a long night for the Oilers. If they're disinterested then the kids et al will have a shot.
ReplyDeleteThe not Advancing the puck Whistle has Potential. I would love to see it for players sheilding the puck along the Boards.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't deal with the problem, which is that teams continue to trap the game to death. The 1-3-1 issue last night just highlights what has been going on for years.
Its time to think hard about the bluelines and off sides. With no offsides teams would not be able to diffuse offensive pressure by "getting the puck out". It would also be hard to trap as the stretch pass to a rover (or three) in the opposition zone would stretch it out. There would be fewer whistles and more speed.
Didn't Gilbert throw his back out early in his career and was never quite the same since? I know he was getting Dryden comparisons during his first early run, when he put up some nice numbers but then Schmidt or Sinden or someone mended fences with Scarface and brought him back into the gang.
ReplyDeleteSeems to my hazy childhood memory that Gilbert wasn't too happy about that.
But Gilbert was my Mum's favorite player. She thought he was dreamy, even cuter than Orr.
LT's predictions are kabuki theatre for the hockey gods.
ReplyDeleteDon't change, LT. Don't change.
Omark should be playing tonight and specifically he should be getting shifts against Chara so he can work his magic along the boards. Maybe if he gets to 2 PPG in the AHL, they'll consider recalling him even though we're clearly an offensive powerhouse :S
ReplyDeleteWhat was going on in Tampa last night??
ReplyDelete(Out of the loop. No battery left in laptop, work blocks sports sites. Left my damn laptop powerbar/cord in Montreal yesterday)
Oilers reclaimed Chorney, per the twitters...
ReplyDeleteJake70, TB employed the trap and Philly decided to make them come out to fore check. TB decided to sit back and wait so there were periods of stalemate where the Philly D skated around in their own end while TB waited in a 1-3-1 formation. Lots of boos and frustration from the fans.
ReplyDeleteI haven't seen it stated yet, but has anyone noticed Renney's press/trap? LA was positively stifled by it. The wingers right at either side of the net forcing the defender behind the net to make a mistake. The defenders are way off outside on the boards playing the usual place the puck ends up when the defender is forced to make a mistake as he exits from behind the net. And a rover which I haven't been able to tell from TV where he usually positions himself. It's quite clever, but there is loads of ice in the middle.
ReplyDeleteWhat is fascinating about these systems to me is how teams adjust. PHX having not yet played the Oilers obviously did their homework on video. Right from the outset, they tried to exploit the open ice with homerun passes up the middle leaving the defenders scrambling to get into position if the pass is successful. Langkow's goal was scored like this. MTL didn't adjust until the third period, but went with the same strategy, and Pacioretty's sloppy goal was a product of just such a breakout play.
The Oilers are badly outmatched tonight. It will be interesting to see how the Bruins handle the only thing that might even the ice tonight.
Regarding Smyth from last thread, does anyone find Smyth better than he ever was before? I remember being frustrated watching him in the late 90's. Sure he scored his share of goal mouth goals as he will continue to do, but remember everytime he went to the corner or behind the net to battle for the puck in the o-zone, he ended up on his ass or without his stick? With just a quick glance you knew if Smytty's line was out there because there would be a fallen Oiler behind the net without his stick and a turnover. In addition to better balance, his anticipation seems to be better. He senses, almost Hemsky-like, where the puck is going to be played and gets there ready for battle. I don't recall this anticipation before. The Weight-Guerin-Smyth line was magical one year before Billy got traded, but I remember thinking despite their success, how much Smyth seemed to be limiting Weight and Guerin.
Some hockey players really do get better with age.
I don't think there's any competion between Hall and Seguin about who's the better hockey player. It's obviously Hall.
ReplyDeleteHe's got the Hockey Hair.
Edmonton Oilers
ReplyDeleteNHL_Oilers Edmonton Oilers
Devan Dubnyk confirmed as the starter tonight in Boston.
11 minutes ago
Not in favour of changing the off-side rule, although bigger ice might be a solution.
ReplyDeleteBoston is a much more talented version of Phoenix.
ReplyDeleteOilers lose 4-1, out shot 28-13.
Wouldn't be surprised if they struggled to reach double digit shots tonight.
i'm hoping the Bruins win another cup....at Vancouver's expense again would suit me just fine!! :-p
ReplyDeleteOilers EV SC's on the road; thought we could look at this heading into tonight's game.
ReplyDeleteOct 13th at Min: 10-15
Oct 18th at Cgy: 6-11
Nov 3rd at LA: 10-5
Nov 5th at Phx: 13-9
Nov 8th at Mtl: 8-14
So, three out of five games where they took a loss at EV chances and though the Oilers win the EV battle at Phx, did it really feel like it? Not the point I guess, though.
The point is, however, that the Oilers as currently constructed aren't going to be successful on the road unless the kids take a big leap or some of 20-89-91 from some chemistry and give us some help.
Reading JW talking about Renney being radical - and perhaps I should have saved these thoughts for an appearance on LT's show - lead me to thinking that Renney should have different lines for home and road games.
We need a line with two vets to still be the primary line for D zone draws and matchups so I'll keep that in mind. On the road we could go:
4-10-83
94-93-14
This potentially works because 10-83 can do boardwork and 83 doesn't want to shoot and 4 always wants to shoot. The other line works because 94's easy to play with it and he can do the board work while 93-14 are the shooters.
Keep the kid and goat lines when it comes to home play.
Looking at tonight I expect a two-goal loss for the Oilers. Edm almost got drilled in Phx and would have Got drilled in mtl if not for Khabby; he could have let in three or four easy.
Oilers have 12 non-ENGF goals in six road games and it's gonna catch up to them.
I doubt that a bigger ice surface would end the trend of trapping hockey. After all the trap was invented on big ice in Sweden, brought here, and perfected by Satan Lemaire.
ReplyDeleteI laughed so hard when I heard CFP whining about it to the press last night and complaining about how the fans hated it. Like CFP actually gives a shit about anyone, especially the fans.
The Philly/Tampa thing seems like a non-issue to me. Both teams can stand around and do nothing if they want. No one wins games that way.
ReplyDeleteDoes Tampa break away from their trap if they're down 3-0 in the third? Probably. Does Philly stand around with the puck when they're down? Probably not.
I saw a suggestion of a referee's discretionary delay of game penalty based on a rough "20 second shot clock" idea, to deal with the Philly tactic. Essentially the ref gets to decide if the team is not advancing the puck and gives a rough 20 second count before deciding to blow the whistle. Making it discretionary (and not on an actual clock) keeps teams more honest, because they never know exactly when the ref is counting down. And 20 seconds is more than enough to complete a line change, plus it avoids the complaint that teams were advancing the puck (because they crossed the blue and skated it back). Puck Daddy explains it here.
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers are road kill tonight, but I thought that against Mtl too (which is why I don't bet, ever).
Chorney reclaimed from STL, as per Rishaug
ReplyDeleteI'd rather see a "3 in the key" type rule then a shot clock. A shot clock would encourage even more trapping IMO.
ReplyDeleteI'd be surprised if they say Eager tonight.
Seguin has been ripping it lately. Wouldn't be surprised to see Hall have a solid game (or completely force the issue all night). Seguin has also had his day with Kessel, would be nice to see Hall make a statement.
Refs can see the trap when players are doing it. Just give the refs the authority to blow the whistle any time the trap is played and after the whistle have a faceoff in that team's zone. Easy. (If team X can't move the puck and team Y is trapping (defined however), then just blow the whistle, pick the puck up and have a faceoff in front of X's goalie.
ReplyDeleteIt's like making the zone defense in basketball illegal. (That was a bad idea, IMO.) Just make the thing you want to ban illegal. Don't try to change other things that will indirectly create an incentive not to do that thing. That's too complicated and has too many side effects. IMO.
You could also create a bench minor for using the trap too often, e.g. if a team gets whistled for trapping three times, they get 2 minutes. (Similiar to delay of game.) Something like that.
To stop the trap, they could enact a rule requiring the defending team to have a player in the opponents defensive zone while the puck is in that zone. If they don't press, the ref can whistle the play down and award a face off in the offending team's zone. Too harsh?
ReplyDeletecoiness: polite word for being cheap.
kris kinda beat me to it.
ReplyDeleteNot a fan of claiming Chorney. A guy like Tulupov has only played 5 games despite what look like solid stats. I'd really like to see what we have there. We know who Chorney is, and he's not good enough.
ReplyDeleteSo, Dubnyk in net tonight against the high scoring Bruins and Khabi against the hapless Wings tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteIs this a strategy to play the power hand tomorrow to ensure a win. I would think so.
Not that Dubnyk is particularly weak.
Oilers are going to get creamed tonight.
ReplyDeleteAnd y'all know what an optimist I've been lately.
ust make the thing you want to ban illegal.
ReplyDeleteThe problem here, imo, is they'd define the trap in the rule book. Then coaches would implement the closest thing they could without matching the definition put into the rule book. It starts getting into judgement calls on the ref's behalf of what is the trap and what isn't. Hockey doesn't need more 'gray areas'.
Just to push the no offside's a little more, what about you're allowed one player in the attacking zone ahead of the puck. So the defending team can still 'clear the zone' and force you to regroup in the neutral zone, the game doesn't lose that side of it, but trapping is still weakened.
It's less of a vague discretion call for the ref and a relatively simple adjustment for the linesman.
Hunter's on with the contra-prediction program.
ReplyDeleteI like Dennis's LW juggle, I also like the 'just swap 10 and 93' put up the other day. Kids and Greybeards as-is won't fly on the road.
Also, any movement in the fwd corps for tonight, or do we have to wait for a Real[TM] loss before that happens?
NIce lines LT, but I would flip Lander and Jones. GIves Renney a true checking line with Belanger, along with some grit. And Lander along with MPS and Gagner may be a solid two way line since MPS and Lander have a clue in their own zone, but they also have good offensive instincts. And it also means Belangers line starts in there own zone almost all the time, and check against anyone and possibly still chip in. Solid 4th line
ReplyDeleteThe biggest issue with the lineup right now is that the 3rd line is basically dead space. They're not an elite shutdown line, so they can't be used to take the pressure off lines 1 and 2. They're also not scoring much, so they can't cleanup on the weak opposition lines if teams hard match against the kids.
ReplyDeleteI still like the idea of trying Hemsky with Gagner and Paajarvi. Failing that, think about some combination that doesn't have Belanger playing on that 3rd line. Unlike Horcoff, he doesn't seem to have the same ability to contribute with offensively skilled players (at least, not THESE kinds... Shane Doan seemed to work).
Not a fan of claiming Chorney. A guy like Tulupov has only played 5 games despite what look like solid stats. I'd really like to see what we have there. We know who Chorney is, and he's not good enough.
ReplyDeleteYou can have both. Chorney can provide a good Dman for the rest of the year in OKC. His entry level contract ends in the offseason and presumably he will be let go as there is another wave of Marincin, Davidson, and Blain due to come thru.
I actually have liked his game the last few times I saw him. Maybe he will be the AHL vet next year.
There is no need to sign Tulupov to an NHL contract right now. If he proves himself in the AHL as better than Teubert they can sign him for next season. Otherwise, if he can't beat out Lowery, Montgomery or Motin for playing time this season, you have your answer already.
Just to push the no offside's a little more, what about you're allowed one player in the attacking zone ahead of the puck.
ReplyDeleteI think TBAY just moves their "1" back further to cover this guy and you are in the same boat.
Teubert and Chorney assigned to Oklahoma, per twitters...
ReplyDeleteNot necessarily a fan of having new rules that impact the game.
ReplyDeleteJust fine the coaches a hefty 50000$ and i bet your ass it will never ever happen again.
Ribs: Idk, If i paid 150$ to see that game, i'd be violently pissed.
Adding new rules, I don't think so.
ReplyDeleteHere's something easy to try though, move the icing line back to the blue line. If you can start your dump in as soon as you're over your own blue that has to open up center ice a bit. Which is all you're trying to do here, a small tweak. Any thing that is a judgment call, 'is that a trap yet? now? what about Now?' will turn the game into a circus. Has to be based on a simple observable rule, in this case just modifying one that already exists.
They already fixed the two-line offside, why not take the redline out entirely, but keep the icing rule from a little further back?
People who do not like a discretionary illegal defense penalty make me giggle – like the game of hockey is not already completely and totally full of discretionary calls on fouls from hooking to holding to interference. If you don't like the trap then ban it. Will it be call to the letter every time – obviously no – but nothing else is either.
ReplyDeleteIs increasing the ice area to the European standard ever discussed in polite company?
ReplyDeleteToo much infrastructure cost (read: seats lost) I guess.
Too bad, because man, there sure isn't much room out there for the finesse players.
4x4 the whole game.
ReplyDeleteOpens the ice.
No need to give the blind zebras more discretion to fck up the game.
And no need to tweak the offside rule.
This is type of game where the word "smurph" will throw around a ton after the game.
ReplyDeleteBruins are big and most of them are pretty good hockey players too.
Renney hasn't made any line changes for tonight, PRV sits.
As much as Renney is running his bench very well in terms of match ups, I don't understand the unwillingness to change up the dynamic of the bottom 2 lines when the results are so poor.
He's got Belanger on PK1 and PP2, so putting him on 4C won't impact his ice time too much.
Might be blood bath tonight unless DD stands on his head.
Rask starts tonight for the B's, so Julien has seen the Oiler's GF and scheduled accordingly.
Not that Rask isn't good. 4 games so far with a .910.
With Tuebert and Chorney being assinged, that leaves:
5-77
13-44
24-58
25 still on suspension, 6 still injured.
I guess they are hoping no one takes a puck off the head in warm up.
This is 25's last game of the suspension.
Hopefully that means 13 is back to third pairing after tonight.
We know who Chorney is, and he's not good enough.
ReplyDeleteHe posted a -1 for the whole season on a middling OKC team last year reportedly taking on the toughs.
He's a good AHL Dman, and the Barons can use some.
Here's something easy to try though, move the icing line back to the blue line. If you can start your dump in as soon as you're over your own blue that has to open up center ice a bit.
ReplyDeleteGood idea.
Well, we've been winning through the power of Smurphy's law, so maybe they luck another one out tonight. I'd bet against it though.
ReplyDeleteThe Bruins are one of the bigger, more physical teams in the league, and I guess I understand keeping Eager in tonight, but I wouldn't do it.
Magnus has to learn to play against teams like the Bruins eventually, he might as well start now.
My preference is to see Lander with PRV.
ReplyDeleteHaving PRV sitting out now gives Renney the opportunity to slot him in with Lander without it seeming like a demotion.
Allow them to develop as a duo, and see who fits in best with them. (see Petrell)
Don’t discount the bond PRV and Lander already have being young, fellow Swedes and buddies, former teammates, and practically twins in age (12 days difference) and development.
Hoplites’ shields interlocked and stretched across the battlefield were effective not because of the armour, but because under assault, they would not abandon the touch of their friends’ shoulders beside them.
How motivated would Lander and PRV be going into combat together?
I’m thinking it would be on the same emotional level as Hall-RNH-Eberle.
4x4 the whole game.
ReplyDeleteOpens the ice.
No need to give the blind zebras more discretion to fck up the game.
And no need to tweak the offside rule
Yes 4x4 hockey is better because changing the offside rule is too dramatic of a change.
S and T said...
ReplyDeleteHoplites’ shields interlocked and stretched across the battlefield were effective not because of the armour, but because under assault, they would not abandon the touch of their friends’ shoulders beside them.
Lol... You mean lovers, not friends, right?
The offside and icing rules weren't created to say "you have to come to us". It's there so that the defending side has the advantage of not having to defend a dump-in from a foreign time zone to cherry pickers loitering behind the play. It's there to ensure the defending team can transition to a proper defense after breaking off the attack. Otherwise you're punished for attacking and you get the same stale mate for a different reason.
ReplyDeleteBefore you force the team holding the puck to advance the puck with a clock rule, you have to expire the offside protection for the trap team after they've had plenty of time to set their defense.
I think the magic off-side shield should wink out after 5 seconds if you leave five guys skating in center ice. After the off-side shield winks out, you start a shot clock for the attacking team forcing them to gain the offensive zone--but with no offside rule to slow them down. If Tampa wants to defend 1-3-1 without the offside advantage, so be it.
The magic off-side shield already winks out when a team has the PP advantage. Dumping the puck from goal line to goal line hardly amounts to cherry picking if the defending team has already set up five pawns in center ice. My proposal isn't much different than how the game is already played.
My take is that Tampa is abusing their offside shield. That option needs to be taken away. Why should the rules favour a boring defense?
Back to Boston, after the Rome hit last year, I watched the replay and decided that Rome had dialed into the hit about 400ms too soon. Later I think the ruling was that he set up 700ms before the hit, and the league only allows 1/4 second. My instinct was about right.
I know WG posted a horrified comment right after the play, but jeebus, if you're called up to the SCF and the game is being played in overdrive from whistle to whistle (and you missed three rounds of warm-up laps to get your bearings) 400ms is pretty much adrenaline error. If Horton holds the puck for one more step, it wouldn't be a misconduct.
Strangely, I think Vancouver missed Rome more than Boston missed Horton. It was a relentless blood bath the other direction after that hit.
I think tonight we're a full Iginla shy of having an answer. Too bad we didn't catch the Bruins in their brief post-Stanley slumber.
"Lol... You mean lovers, not friends, right?"
ReplyDeleteI thought it better to leave that part out. Let's keep thinking of it as good buddies.
putting icing at your own blueline will only lead to less forechecking, since that means if you miss on the forecheck, you could suddenly be 140 feet away from the puck as it gets shot in from what is your offensive blue line. It adds significantly more risk to the concept of a forechek with no added reward.
ReplyDeleteThat'll only cause more teams to sit back, not wanting to risk one or two guys getting caught deep that far away from the puck if they aren't effective on the forecheck.
Olympic ice is the right solution, but it's a non-starter for the owners.
ReplyDelete4 x 4 is a non-starter for the NHLPA, you're going to knock 20% of our membership into the AHL? (and 20% of theirs to the ECHL and so on?). At what point in minor hockey would you move to 4 skaters? Nope.
It is true that today's size and speed has outgrown the rink. I wonder if that's led to more concussions?
Watched RIT (NCAA Div 3) womens game last Saturday. Think Bantam AAA boys for size/speed, then add six years of experience and 2hrs/day practice and coaching. They 'fit' the rink, and you want to see a 5-pass PP goal take about 2.5s to accomplish. It was pretty damn good.
I was having a discussion with a friend of mine about Peckham, or more specifically, the Oilers' general reluctance to risk waivers on bottom of the roster players - essentially icing an inferior roster by virtue of sending down a superior (but not waiver eligible) player.
ReplyDeleteIt would be one thing if we were talking about players who had top 9, or top 4 upside, but does anyone really think that's Peckham? Isn't his absolute upside a bottom pairing guy who can maybe PK? He doesn't strike me as someone who has enough talent in any one area that might make you think he could even be a contributing second pair guy on an average team.
Once you've identified that someone is never going to be more than a bottom line/pairing guy is it worth wasting minutes on them if you have superior options? 4th line/bottom pairing guys can be had every off season for under a million bucks. If you waive a Peckham (or a Chorney or...) and they get claimed is it the end of the world? Those are the types of players who are always on and off waivers and you can just pick up someone else's bottom pairing guy if neccesary.
The trap, and defensive hockey in general, increases the likelihood of ties. So part of the answer is to incentivize wins by giving three points for a win. This has completely transformed the way that soccer is played without having to change any of the actual rules.
ReplyDeleteBoston 18th in league Total Hits... I dunno. They don't seem all that scary physically to me. Just don't go into corners when you don't have to.
ReplyDeleteBoston is currently the best faceoff team in the league. That could be something to watch.
RE: Tampa/Philly. If you know exactly what your opponent is going to do every time, and you can't figure out a way way to beat it, than you deserve to lose. We don't need any rule changes, someone will soon figure out a way to counter Tampa's 1-3-1, and Tampa will have to make an adjustment. This innovation is part of the beauty of sports. Who invented the slapshot? When it was first used did people talk about creating a rule to ban it? "Oh no, how will we ever deal with this new type of shot? it's nigh on unstoppable!"
ReplyDeleteCharlton,
ReplyDeleteExcept the effect of structural conditions is determinative. If the current structure of the rules creates conditions in which the advantage goes to the team without the puck (as it does) then this distorts the natural balance between offense and defense that drives all competitive team sports. Given the conditions the rational strategy is combat the 1-3-1 is to give the puck to the other team.
Strategy reacts to structural conditions but it can't change them. Hence what is required is to change the structural conditions under which hockey is played.
...I am recalling the fight-fest from last season now. Smiling Jim Vandermeer and the crummy Peckham-Horton fight.
ReplyDelete..Oilers outhit them 37-24 on the sheet.
ReplyDeleteSomebody (I think it was Bruce) commented at the COH that last night was just the Bettman point taken to its logical extreme.
ReplyDeleteIt'a a whole lot easier to prevent a goal than it is to score a goal, so if I was a coach I'd play for a 0-0 tie every game. Think about it. If a theoretical team tied all 82 of its games in regulation, that's 82 points right there. So they only need to actually win 16 of their games to finish with 100 points. So a team could go 16-0-66 and make the playoffs in the Western Conference.
Hockey is always going to be a game that evolves to become low scoring. You can upset the equilibrium a little bit through rule changes, but coaches will eventually adjust and scoring will drop. It's just the nature of the beast.
The only way to truly increase scoring is to have what existed in the 80's. Wide disparities in the talent levels between teams. The only way to go back to that is to either contract some teams or get rid of the salary cap. Or both.
Bettman can't have parity and 7-4 games. He's got to pick his poison.
culkin said...
ReplyDeleteBettman can't have parity and 7-4 games. He's got to pick his poison.
I don't see how these are mutually exclusive. One speaks to the general, the other the specific.
sadness: I'm kind of sad this is my captcha. And now Melancholy will probably be jealous.
I am all for 3 point wins. The closer we get to the end of the season, the more we see teams play for OT and the guaranteed loser point, and it seems that Sports Select, at least, has recognized this.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThey should shape the rink like an "S" to negate the trap.
ReplyDeleteHow about this...Skating backwards not allowed. That oughtta sort things out.
ReplyDeleteYeah, let's eliminate skating backwards!* Good idea.
ReplyDelete*backwards crossovers were never the forte of this commenter and usually resulted in injury, sometimes even to himself.
On 24-57-91:
ReplyDelete24: i think the Oilers hope that 24 can do what 25's doing right now: bottom pairing steady guy and PKer. Let's take a leap and assume that 6 stays healthy and 44 is real and that mean's we're looking someone to play with 58 next year and perhaps a vet while 24's sent away and 33 becomes the 7th dman. 24 could still perhaps be a top four guy but I think it's getting more unlikely all the time.
57 and 91: read something today where Renney said that 57 does have offense in him and we'll see more of that as time permits. If 20 continues to fail to gel with 91-89 then yes 57 will get the call to play with them on the third pairing. I like his play so far but I want to see what he can do with talented wingers. Maybe eventually we'll see a 91-57-83 line with 89 or 28 getting the bump into the top six/matching lines.
There are a lot of narratives waiting to emerge once the Oilers take a couple of real losses and if the papers want to ignore how much Renney's sheltering the kids or how ineffective they are on the road, then the lack of a third line will be in the crosshairs.
One thing I tweeted to Speeds today was how 89 will never make real money with the Oilers. He'll never get the TOI or the role to make the big bank unless he can move into the top six.
"Don’t discount the bond PRV and Lander already have being young, fellow Swedes and buddies, former teammates, and practically twins in age (12 days difference) and development."
ReplyDeleteYep -- just when Lander arrived in Edmonton, PRV told NHL.com that Lander was his best friend.
I just saw the Tampa Philly trap thing on youtube....man I've never seen that before...bizarre.
ReplyDeleteWell, looks like they have Cam Barkers side of the ice figured out.
ReplyDeleteThis game's a track meet.
ReplyDeleteShould be fun.
DD looks steady early.
8 shots in 7 minutes.
ReplyDeleteHere we go....
Drinking Game -
ReplyDeleteTake a shot every time a Boston announcer says 'blue collar'.
Hemmer wandering around on the R defensive half wall. Wow.
ReplyDeleteThis could get Coyote Ugly.
ReplyDelete2-0 half way through the first.
ReplyDeleteBloodbath.
Maybe Renney will actually look at lines 3-4 now.
Lol, that was 55's last shift for the evening.
ReplyDeleteEager should be.benched .. Terrible play
ReplyDeleteSam Gagner - master of the low percentage pass
ReplyDeleteunfortunately, they are low percentage and often go the other way...
sigh
The play by 55 was brutal but worse he just watched the guy stroll in toward the net afterward. Pine time.
ReplyDeleteYah, 2 bad plays by Eager in the last 2 games.
ReplyDeleteHe'll still play and 23 will still sit in OKC.
Ok, if MPS is still sitting tomorrow night for Eager (especially considering they're playing Detroit), something is severely wrong.
ReplyDeletePaajarvi-Lander-Gagner
Jones-Belanger-Petrell
Please and thank you...
There's Gagner throwing the puck in the slot to nobody leading to numbers the other way.
ReplyDeleteI was looking at the game odds and the upcoming game against Detroit was slightly more dire, despite starting the hot tender. After a moment of perplexity I inferred we're playing back to back games. Ouch. I had forgotten about that.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, changing the incentive to win in regulation would do a lot to fix the problem, but the actual agenda in head office is to keep the scoring low (within a goal) so fans don't tune out the third period and miss all the fabulous advertising.
Plus, the Bettman loser point narrows the difference between good teams and bad teams in the standings, so more teams can pretend they are playing meaningful games in March and bigger TV audiences tune in. A winner point formula would have 8 teams out of contention by January. The problem here is that the more the talent shines though, the faster the fans figure out which games (and periods) are not worth watching (foregone conclusions).
Since half the teams have to lose for structural reasons, the league is stuck trying to spread just enough entertainment to keep the fans engaged as thin as lawyerly possible. The league is terrified that the fans might figure out how to watch the team only when the team is worth watching. I think half the time people are sitting on the couch during games paying more attention to their iPads. Advertisers will notice, NHL revenues will slowly decline. Gotta make sure the next goal is the essential goal.
Our best hope for seeing a winner point in regulation is that the NBA decides to cease operations citing insurmountable differences.
It's the same reason we have a season that's too long with back to back games where players are far from their best. The talent would shine twice as bright with a 70 game season and a regulation winner point. It's just not going to happen. Same deal in the playoffs. The rules change slightly so that every underdog can have their day. It's a whole new season like the first 82 games never mattered much in the first place.
Last night CFP violated kayfabe, the premise that the league is optimized for sport. Ruling is likely to fall in Tampa's favour. Fortunately hockey has virtues that are fairly hard to screw over by blatant commercialism. But still I weep.
Bang-bang.
ReplyDelete2-2, just like that.
I really hope 91 follows 94 around all day. That's what.he should be doing
ReplyDeleteWooot!
ReplyDeleteSmytty!!
RNH!!!
Its a track meet.
Awesome.
Also,
With the next game against DET, its the best game to sit 55. Hope Renney does it.
This is awesome.
8-7 with the last goal scored in the last 3 minutes.
gogogogogogo!!!
I really hope 91 follows 94 around all day. That's what.he should be doing
ReplyDeleteExactly.
That's what every forward should be doing.
Get possession behind the net/corner, dish it off, go to the net.
Go
to
the
net.
Gotothenet
gotothenet.com
gotothenet.score
Horrible call on peckham
ReplyDeleteMemo to Theo Peckham - the "Jason Smith" technique isn't legal in today's NHL. Learn!
ReplyDeletemutsheri: A homely, homely gal...
Damn, Jones with another SH chance. For all the criticism he takes around here, he's a great PK option.
ReplyDeleteInteresting that Julien seems to be playing Chara against 83. (i have a fear of Hesmkyjam smeared on the boards), then playing the bigger boys of Horton, Lucic and Krejci against the kids.
ReplyDeleteShould make some easy ice for 28,20,89, they need to do something tonight.
Weak call on 24.
I like how 28 goes to the net without the puck. I don't hate him, I just don't think he's the best option, but he has improved his game from last year.
That was a fun period to watch. Bruins clearly have their swagger and were running their show (tm) for a time.
ReplyDeleteBut Ryan freaking Smyth is a freaking man, and his goal was a little bit of louisiana lightning to my eye.
itsaleaf:
ReplyDeleteWhat's horrible about that call?
It is a nice change to watch a team (Boston) that can play a physical, close checking game, without resorting to a lot of the hooking and holding that was so obnoxious in the Phoenix game. Hopefully the Oilers can overcome it.
ReplyDeletespeeds,
ReplyDeleteStraight arms are still legal right?
Ooops, just replayed it and 24 got high.
Straight arm to the chest, not the face please.
without resorting to a lot of the hooking and holding that was so obnoxious in the Phoenix game.
ReplyDeleteThe most obnoxious thing was the refs reluctance to call a freaking penalty.
Terribly reffed game against PHX, worse than MTL game.
It didn't look that high (no head.) Granted I haven't watched the replay 5 times.
ReplyDeleteIt seemed pretty weak
http://www.firstrowsports.tv/watch/91122/1/watch-boston-bruins-vs-edmonton-oilers.html
ReplyDeleteNot much DD could do about that
ReplyDeleteJesus. Terrible line change.
ReplyDeleteWhat are they doing?
DD is sure stumbling around today. Just doesn't seem to be insync.
ReplyDeleteHemsky needs to get that puck in deep.
ReplyDeleteThat's another poor clear by Hemsky. He needs to pick up the defensive zone play or better yet, go save that third line. They've been invisible all night.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to say it - I'm glad we picked Taylor Hall (and believe they made the right choice), but I'm also glad to see Tyler Seguin doing well after taking so much criticism and being unfairly (and prematurely) labelled by many "experts" as a far-inferior player.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention that it's making Brian Burke look foolish (in spite of Phil Kessel's hot start).
Bottom line, #19 for the home team tonight is quality.
dioninka: Phaneuf's tattoo artist.
I haven't seen the whole game, but what I've seen is what you expect. The Oilers have shown flashes, but Boston is consistently excellent.
ReplyDeleteInteresting to see how good the Oilers could be with Whitney back and another star added somewhere.
Really hope Eager sits next game. There is no point having him in the lineup if he is not going to be physical/crazy.
ReplyDeletePaajarvi over Eager is likely not the difference maker in this game. That said , if ice time is the coach's only whip/carrot, Eager needs to sit for a game or two.
ReplyDeleteDMW
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely agreed on the point set up contributing to playoff races, and the unlikelihood of changen... It has been discussed here many atime.
kris: Heck, it would be interesting to see the blueline with Whitney/Sutton instead of Barker/Peckham at this point.
ReplyDeleteashaze: Haze due to ashes.
Oilers were outclassed that period, the Bruins come in waves and the depth issue is really exposed.
ReplyDeleteHemsky is showing flashes of brilliance mixed with rust, and that's kind of the theme for tonight.
Oilers are the 2nd best team on the night. No surprise, but a lot of try and that's a good arrow.
Yeah, but Boston's depth at F is exposing our D. And their ability to handle our F's makes me pine for Whitney-Gilbert, Suter-Smid, Sutton-Potter or something like that.
ReplyDeleteOilers have more hits and a slight edge in face offs.
ReplyDeleteI guess gritty, crusty, jammy hockey and running the other guy's show doesn't always work.
Who knew?
Vancouver usually slaps us around and Boston bitched slapped the Canucks for 7 games so I was expecting a result like this.
ReplyDeleteJust too many soft players out there that when they aren't scoring they do absolutely nothing.
Gagner needs to go before he has O'Sullivan value.
woodguy:
ReplyDeleteWhatever hit stat you are looking at is full of shit.
Edmonton is turning the puck over in every zone because they are looking over their shoulder.
Who knew?
The 1-3-1 prevents teams like Toronto from using what Bob Gainey calls, "ping-pong hockey" where the no skill defenceman fires the puck up near the boards to a winger in the neutral zone who defelects into the offensive zone. That type of offence is very boring to watch. It takes passing and puck possession out of the game.
ReplyDeleteWith the 1-3-1 you have a player on each board in the neutral zone, guarding against the tip-in. Also the 1 in the back is able to get to the puck before the forecheckers. That defenceman then goes into puck control or passing to advance the puck up the ice. Tampa Bay's offence system is NOT boring "ping-pong hockey".
I hate watching "ping-pong" no skill hockey, so I am okay with the 1-3-1 if helps to stop it from ruining our game.
Gagner looks pretty lost. His job is to create offense and he's creating nothing.
ReplyDeleteHe creates momentum for the other team.
ReplyDeleteGagner is a sloppy bore these days; I won't miss him.
ReplyDeleteGagner looks pretty lost. His job is to create offense and he's creating nothing.
ReplyDeleteHe's playing with Eric Belanger and Ryan Jones. God bless 'em, but they're not "offensive" players.
There's a saying about the ingredients for chicken salad that applies here.
They either need to put Gagner on RW with 94-10 or throw him with Paajarvi and Lander. Play Jones-Belanger-Petrell as a unit and structure the bottom six in a way that makes practical sense and gives the team a 3rd line that is a threat to score.
This guy needs someone to write down a pronunciation guide for the name Petry and rub his nose in it.
ReplyDeleteTraktor,
ReplyDeleteGo someplace you can talk about gargling.
Traktor: I'll give you credit, you've evolved from bitching about Horcoff every post to complaining about Gagner. At least you're keeping it fresh.
ReplyDeleteI think 89 has to go back to the middle.
ReplyDeleteput 28 back with 94-10
91-89-83
I've seen enough of 20-89 together. It ain't workin
To Traktor's credit, Gagner is giving him lots of ammo.
ReplyDeleteTraktor said...
ReplyDeleteGagner needs to go before he has O'Sullivan value.
If you can't tell the difference between losing the battle and no interest in the battle...
Well that lack explains every comment for a long long time.
Wow, what a powerplay. Smyth...again.
ReplyDeleteYou've gotta fucking love 94. Problem is he's playing himself into a bigger contract...
ReplyDeleteWhats the over under on Smytty's goals this season?
ReplyDeleteGreat to see them get something for that effort. Couple of great keeps by 83.
ReplyDeleteBarker
ReplyDeleteBarker stinks. Stupid penalty
ReplyDeleteBarker is horrible. He forced that penalty. He is so slow, if teams forecheck, they'll always beat him to the puck. And then he turns it over a lot, too.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Hemsky's dangles are so sweet tonight! And Barker, dude, can you please tone it down, son?
ReplyDeleteI've said this before, but if every Oiler forward went to the net as often as Smytty it would be like a 10 goals / year boost for that player. Smytty just doesn't care what the goals look like
ReplyDeleteFin Bsrker F me
And Cam Barker with an idiotic penalty at the worst time.
ReplyDeleteWhy do they give out the #13 jersey anyways? Whoever wears it plays purely clueless.
And there's the goal to seal it as a result.
If renney's sticking to his accountability statement, 55 and 13 out next game.
ReplyDeleteGo right to the showers barker. Geezuz.
ReplyDeleteBarker needs to sit. Hopefully they can make spots for Omark or MPS, too.
ReplyDeleteI wonder why we needed a tough guy in this game? Wouldn't MPS have been more useful against Boston in a regular season game. They weren't exactly gooning it up?
Oh shit, this is where our season unravels....
ReplyDeleteAnd barker beat wide again and goal.
ReplyDeleteExperiment over. See if anyone wants him on waivers.
Well I think we're 15 games in and we know who doesn't belong.
ReplyDeleteAll kinds of bad there, by everyone on the ice
ReplyDeleteI agree itsaleaf
ReplyDeleteBarker is awful. Took a terrible penalty for the 5th goal, and missed his man for the 6th.
ReplyDeleteIf Renney is actually handing out ice time by performance he sits tomorrow when Sutton gets back.
Eager should sit too.
Barker is an awful 5v5 hockey player.
And barker kills the rally. Nice.
ReplyDeleteGreat PP goal though by smyth.
"If you can't tell the difference between losing the battle and no interest in the battle...
ReplyDeleteWell that lack explains every comment for a long long time."
So in summary neither player comes out with the puck.
Good one.
I bet opposing GM's will be lining up to acquire such a player. Maybe we can trade him for Jim Vandermeer.
hbomb:
I guess I could bitch about Ryan Jones instead but that would make Bruce the only intelligent hockey person in the sphere.
the experiment of slow.
ReplyDeleteafter my post I look back and see I'm 10 posts too late about how awful Barker is.
ReplyDeleteTraktor,
ReplyDeleteJim Vandermeer would be an upgrade over Barker!
Not liking 13s shot selection on the PP either. He's so far out it almost has no chance of reaching the net.
ReplyDeleteWhen is 6 back anyway? The PP needs him
Taylor Hall is getting to be as predictable as Gilbert Brule. How often does he come over the blue line and try a shot from the boards?
ReplyDeleteWay to give the game away, Barker.
ReplyDeleteI was happy to see an Eagerless third however.
ReplyDeleteYeah, that seems to be the only shot I've seen from Hall in the last few games, all identical all night long... Why can't he cut into the slot for once?
ReplyDeleteWell that pretty much went as expected.
ReplyDeleteOur system got exploited badly today, surely video fodder for other teams.
ReplyDeleteShould be interesting to see what Renney does to adjust.
Look, this was a 4-3 game with 4 minutes to play and the kids line buzzing. Despite playing like crap the whole night- given up pucks, getting beat on puck battles throughout the ice, and some bad pinches by the D- we were in this game. We were competitive, and you felt that the oilers could put together a furious last minute rally. Against the stanley cup champions.
ReplyDeleteSo we still see that, despite what will look like a lopsided loss, this time is light years ahead of last year's team. With that having been said, you can't not be disappointed by this effort- against the defending champs, you wanted the oilers to play a smarter game, a more disciplined game. And they didn't. Barker is awful and needs to be sat next game. We are seeing more and more who doesn't belong.
And can we end Eager playing over someone as sublimely talented as MPS? Certainly we couldn't have used MPS's ability to cycle the puck down low, draw penalties, and burst through the neutral zone with this speed.
I really blame Renney for that one. Sometimes, for as smart a guy as Renney seems to be, he also at times seems to just not get what the NHL is about. Did a guy like Eager do anything to help the oilers win tonight? Eager can throw himself against Chara all night long, but it will be the ability to stick handle, forcheck, and take/give a pass that will allow you to score against Chara when he's one the ice. And MPS and Omark have those skills.
Hopefully this serves as a wakeup call. Big game tomorrow-let's see how they respond.
The great thing about picking Chorney back up for OKC is that OKC no longer short of defensemen, and takes away any excuse for sending Petry back down.
ReplyDeleteUnlike, say 94 or the young'un 93, Eager's hockey sense is very poor. Besides throwing his weight around, his positioning on the forecheck is just wrong, not cutting off passing lanes, or getting in the way of the man in possession. He just seems to be going for a skate.
ReplyDeleteI actually found a lot of this game to be hopeful for the Oilers. They generated offense against a great team, playing well, at home. Of course, they need better D and that 3rd line has to find some offense. I can now imagine a healthy (Whitney), slightly tweaked Oilers lineup staying close to even with the Bruins.
ReplyDeleteThat's a hell of a thing.
RNH is looking great. Smyth still has game. Horcoff and Hemsky are fantastic. Hall, Gagner and Eberle are a little off their games, but still getting chances and will get it back. And we have reserves who can fill in at F. Coaching is good. PK, too.
This is time for optimism.
I think the worry is whether Tambellini can make the right tweaks, at the right time, for the right price, to help put the team over the top to get closer to that Bruins/Penguins/Sharks/etc. level. We'll see.
Hall is just so determined to make something happen. He backs in the D so far that he should mix in a Hemsky back curl once in a while and feed a trailer.
ReplyDeleteHe'll figure it out - he's still a big part of a line that maintained alot of O-zone time tonight.
Traktor said...
ReplyDeleteSo in summary neither player comes out with the puck.
Good one.
It's really beyond your abilities, this whole hockey thing, isn't it?
Mark and Kris
ReplyDeletePretty much agreed, except for the sublimely adjective.
Ben EAger, 6 games without a hit!!! And Lennart Petrell had 6 hits tonight!
ReplyDeleteNot sure about keeping up Petrell when everyone is healthy either.
ReplyDeleteI know, I know. I sort of defended keeping him up over MPS and Omark. Mea culpa.
So 44 has had very good SC results with everyone but 13.
ReplyDeleteAccording to some, its 13's fault.
(see 28's results last year)
Yah, I hope Eager is still finding his way on this team cause it could be a long 3 years.
ReplyDeleteFor a guy who is supposed to be an energy type forechecker he sure takes odd angles at guys and leaves easy passing lanes up the ice. He seems to skate hard at times and then coast at odd times - I guess that's where the hockey sense is supposed to come in.
Feel bad for DD. He's not going to get as many starts as first thought if the gap remains. He hasn't been bad, just ok and NK has been all world. Such is life as an NHL goalie. Could be worse -Mason watched 6 more go by tonight.
"Not sure about keeping up Petrell when everyone is healthy either."
ReplyDeleteI couldn't disagree more. Petrell is currently the most impactful player on his line. And how about special teams? Man, I just totally disagree.
Renney's lineup changes are baffling. First Omark and now Pajaarvi, it makes no sense. It should be the goal of every team to have no fourth line. Instead Renney goes out of his way to play worse hockey players because he has some misguided idea that these guys serve a purpose.
ReplyDeleteRight now the Oilers have two lines that can play and two lines that can't and yet he leaves 2/3 of a good line in the press box and in the minors making the team worse both now and in the future. Brilliant.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteCam Barker is like water in the desert to those that yell "Shoot" from the crowd.
ReplyDeleteOh he'll shoot alright, into some shin pads, or the goalies glove, or five feet wide...
Surprise, surprise, Corey Potter is now 4-17 by the SCs when paired with Cam Barker (WELL in the black without)
ReplyDeleteI believe my exact words were:
"kinger said...
Cam Barker - Corey Potter
This will not end well.
Tuesday, November 8, 2011"
And this isn't some sort of knock on Potter's game. It's obvious that Renney can't afford to shelter him, and since Barker is terrible...
This has not been going well.
One more post on Barker.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with Barker is that:
1. He likes to handle/distribute the puck.
2. He's a terrible at handling/distributing the puck.
Potter is actually pretty good at moving things up ice, but Barker getting all the touches for the pairing. Barker is basically what would happen if you took all of Nick Lidstrom's self-confidence with the puck, and stuck it in Matt Greene's body. Hilarity would ensue.
It would be a lot more hilarious if Barker was playing for Calgary or Vancouver.
ReplyDeleteCaptain Obvious:
ReplyDeleteThey make sense when those players are playing well defensively, and totally don't when the system is shredded as it was last night.
I hope Renney can be flexible and adjust the plan depending on the opponent and how our players are executing, but it doesn't look like he has very much so far.
Through 15 games, the Oilers have scored 35 goals.
ReplyDeleteGuys named Ryan: 19
Guys NOT named Ryan: 16
I still find this funny.
@HBomb... the solution is obvious... we need more guys named "Ryan". Let's start with Ryan Paajarvi, Ryan Gagner, Ryan Lander etc.
ReplyDeleteReminds me of an old story in the Sather era after a player had been knocked unconscious. The trainer comes out and tells Slats the player can't remember his name. Slats says "..tell him his name is Wayne Gretzky and get him out here.."!!!
That one shift by the kids after Smytty potted his second was a killer. You could just sense a goal coming once every kid coughed up the puck at least once each. It's a learning experience.
ReplyDeleteBarker slapping his stick on the ice every time Potter touches the puck is kind of funny, but also kind of irritating. He always seems to be 5-10ft away from him. What's the point, Barker?
Belanger looks out to lunch for the majority of the games lately. Saw him make two horrible pass attempts where I think he may have been closing his eyes and guessing. He needs to start skating again if he's going to be useless with the puck. He's still kicking ass at faceoffs, though.
Hemsky looked outright scared this game. How's that shoulder, Ales? Hopefully we see him shake off some rust against the Wings.