The Edmonton Oilers have demoted Linus Omark to OKC. According to this Swedish article (using google translate) Omark says "we'll see what it leads to" and I assume that means a trade. Otherwise, it is my understanding that Omark can opt to play in Sweden for the rest of the season (should he choose).
I think this is a terrible decision.
It was only a matter of time...
ReplyDeleteLet's hope that Oklahoma City has some great barbers, specializing in sideburn removal.
ReplyDeleteWhen Omark hasn't been able to impact the 7-2-2 roster in any meaningful way, he should be allowed to go somewhere he can play hockey. If he's tired of NA, then it's his decision to leave the Oilers.
ReplyDeleteHow this is a terrible idea I'm not sold on. Oilers retain his rights, and because Omark has personally told me(we spoke for a minute, chance encounter travelling) he hopes to be an Oiler, I'll be happy to leave it up to the player for once.
When Omark hasn't been able to impact the 7-2-2 roster in any meaningful way...
ReplyDeleteHard to do that from the pressbox.
I'll be happy to leave it up to the player for once.
I don't believe he's been given the option of being an Oiler.
It all goes back to that shootout against PITT where Omark pulled his cutsie Youtube move after Eberle and Hemsky burned Johnson easily with simple shots upstairs. Add on defensive failings in subsequent games and the presence of multiple better options on the wing - and he's gone - doubt he ever returns.
ReplyDeleteIf we can deal him and Peckham for a better dman then I'm all for it.
I think he should have been dealt just for that outfit;)
ReplyDeleteSo, 83's still skating with a non-contact jersey but we're still sending out the only healthy extra forward we have?
So this means 16 will be ready by Thursday night? or that 83 will be? Or that Oilers are willing to skate with 11 forwards if someone pulls up during or post practice?
Or it means that something else is in the works...
ReplyDelete*foot comes out of sky,stomps on everything*
This is a weird turn of events on the eve of a 6 game road trip.
Fussy britches said they were talking, so hopefully ST will get a depth pick.
ReplyDeleteTerrible return. Just an awful move.
Haha, I published a story at 5:00 speculating about Omark's future, and LT publishes at 5:01 that he's been reassigned. Guess I was on point for that minute, though.
ReplyDeleteThere was lots of hue and cry when Petry got sent down, but he wound up playing a couple of 25-minute games rather than gathering more rust in the press box, and then was ready to play when Oilers actually needed him. This could be more of the same, just trying to get Omark game sharp.
Ominous for him though that he couldn't land ice time even with Hemsky on the shelf.
This is insane. The Oilers are on a wonderful run that involves luck, goaltending and fewer goals than one can imagine based on the record.
ReplyDeleteWhat might help the GF? Linus Omark.
LT, do you have corroboration of this move? There's nothing on the Oilers' website or listed transactions anywhere. If you're relying on that Google Translate's version of the truth, well, it may well be that something has been lost in translation.
ReplyDeleteMust keep Hemsky as he is an actual NHL player TM.
ReplyDeleteMust play Gagner as giving up on him now would be bad asset managment.
Must keep Omark.
Who the F is allowed to be demoted?
I will wait for other shoes to drop before making any judgement. If he goes down to 20 minutes icetime and opportunity to be called up in 10 days, I am fine with it.
ReplyDeleteIt could be that Renney is superstitious enough that he won't change the line-up for fear of jeopardising a winning streak (has he been wearing the same tie as well) and that this is a way to get him some game action.
Clearly they are willing to use some of his last remaining waiver free games in the minors.
At least they haven't traded him for a 3rd.
I pray to a variety of gods that this conversation happened:
ReplyDeleteRenney: "Linus, I want to get you into the line up, but I won't change a winning roster. You haven't played for a while so we need you to go to OKC so you are in game shape when you get back on the ice with us. OKC plays Thursday, so do we. If we lose Thursday I'll call you up for Saturday in Phoneix. If we win in LA, you play Saturday for OKC and I'll call you up whenever we lose a game. Go down there and get your game legs."
Linus: "Jag är en bättre hockeyspelare än Ryan Jones"
Bruce:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nsd.se/nyheter/artikel.aspx?ArticleId=6501544
http://hockey.expressen.se/nhl/1.2609758/linus-omark-skickas-ned-till-farmarlaget
A few other sources.
Nicely played WG.
ReplyDeletedionite - a highly unpredictable and over-reactive element (named after Stephane Dion) - commonly found in GMs offices (ST is assessing whether to get some)
I love google translate:
ReplyDeleteFrom the article:
- Right now, I can not say much. But it is in the NHL, I want to play and I know I can play at that level, says Omark mysterious.
Has the catalog contacted you?
- No, but it is well placed to Lulea to give me an offer, he says, laughing.
That mysterious Linus.
Has the catalog contacted you?
Renney should say that to everyone when they are going to be sent down.
Renney :"Theo, can you come into my office"
Theo: "What is it coach?"
Renney (looking into the camera): Has the catalog contacted you?
LT: Thanks. Interesting that this is all over the Swedish press while here it's been a little slow to trickle out. Gregor has just mentioned it on his show, but I wasn't sure if he was getting it from you!
ReplyDeleteWoodguy: Haha, that's brilliant. But the gist of your comment certainly holds water. It may be a tangential relationship but it's a fact that Oilers are 5-0-0 since Gagner replaced Omark. And as Crash Davis famously put it, "Never fuck with a winning streak."
either 83 is closer than we imagined or 23's being a bad apple about taking the HS.
ReplyDeleteRenney likes Petrell and Jones more.
ReplyDeleteand Omark less.
Bruce,
ReplyDeleteI always respect the streak.
If its just to get him into game shape, then its ok.
Reading another translated article "catalog" was a former team of his.
I still like the melodrama of it in the scene in my head.
"Has the catalog called you?"
It all goes back to that shootout against PITT where Omark pulled his cutsie Youtube move after Eberle and Hemsky burned Johnson easily with simple shots upstairs.
ReplyDeleteHe produced points like like Sedins, Zetterburg, Forsburg in the SEL.
Then goes to the KHL and scores like Kovalchuk, Frolov, Kulemin, Semin, Malkin.
Comes hear last year and gets to play with MP and that quality After Horc and hall go down. March 13.
From that point he got PP time and was:
12GM 2G 7A .75 PPG
I look forward to Columbus playing him with Nash and fucking us badly.
Woodguy: I love Google Translate. It's just so, uh, random. It reads like a Denis Grebeshkov shift - normal, normal, normal, WTF??!!, normal, normal, say what? ...
ReplyDeleteMight be selfish, but I am going to the OKC game here in Abbotsford; so it's great for me to be able to see Linus! I was secretly hoping someone might be sent down.
ReplyDeleteIt's up to Omark to prove he's the best option among Hartikainen, Pitlick, Hamilton, Cornet ... If he seizes the challenge that way, he'll be back soon, is my guess.
ReplyDeleteLinus Omark is small and slow. If we had six of his ilk in our top six the Oil would never score as much as they would let in. He is twenty four already move him along for bigger guys.
ReplyDeleteBikini girl said at one point, sort of, one of Gagner or Omark plus one of Pitlick or Petry for Schenn. Omark and Pitlick for Schenn? I'd do that. She also said a CBJ 3rd round pick for Omark. I would not do that.
ReplyDeleteThis doesn't seem like a strange move. Omark isn't playing with the Oilers because he's being out-played by the rest of the active roster, and they're on a hot streak.
ReplyDeleteIMO a strong Oiler team brings out spontaneous anxiety in Edmontonians. They've forgotten what it's like to watch a winning team.
CorsiREL for Oilers wingers:
ReplyDeleteEberle 21.8
Hall 17.9
Paajarvi 8.1
Hemsky 5.4
Gagner 4.3
Jones 2.4
Smyth -1.2
Omark -3.9
Eager -19.9
Petrell -27.9
If ONLY there was a candidate to sit down.
Dang, Ryan Smyth is a worse player than Jones. Why'd they sign him?
ReplyDeleteOn the basis of this year, I don't think there's any argument to be made that Eager, Pettrell, Hordichuk, or Lander (I include centres because we've currently got one playing the wing) has outplayed Omark. Once we see Jones spend a lot of time with some different linemates, I suspect we'll add him to that list, but right now that rising tide is lifting his boat. In public, no less - scandalous.
ReplyDeleteLT
ReplyDeleteTom Renney from Oil Change
"if you're not willing to sacrifice, if you're not willing to put yourself out there, if you're not willing to lose a little bit of your own identity in order to make this team better, in order to help all of us win, if you're expectations are to just go out and do your best, if you think good enough is good enough then quite honestly you won't be here."
If Linus Omark can't make this lineup especially when Ales Hemsky is injured it looks like Renny doesn't think he lives up to these expectations.
"SS": So does that mean Jones is running his show?
ReplyDeleteAmazingly, the Oilers have more than enough roster players so Omark can be sent to the AHL.
ReplyDeleteI doubt if MacT would have played him any more than Schremp.
If Linus Omark can't make this lineup especially when Ales Hemsky is injured it looks like Renny doesn't think he lives up to these expectations.
ReplyDeleteWell, Renney obviously doesn't think so. That's not really what we're debating.
shaw: I understand he's a HS and wouldn't change it when the team is winning. Makes sense. If this is a conditioning stint, fine.
ReplyDeleteMakes sense. What doesn't make sense? Demoting Omark at this time. He is most certainly more talented than some of the everyday players on the Oilers.
hunter: You cannot possibly be comparing Omark to Schremp.
ReplyDeleteHe is most certainly more talented than some of the everyday players on the Oilers.
ReplyDeleteI prefer to frame it as more *useful*, because when you start talking about who's more talented, you inevitably have people saying "Blah blah heart blah blah intangibles blah blah CRUST blah blah WILL TO WIN!!!!"
Omark's obviously more talented, and that's a lot of what makes him more useful. But if we just argue talent, I think we're conceding too much territory to the guys who'd rather dress Hordichuck.
"SS": You're right, talent is sometimes confused with potential.
ReplyDeleteI'd pull any of Eager, Petrell, Paajarvi from the current group to sit in order to get Omark at-bats.
Gregor says Omark is reporting to OKC. Makes sense to me - he hasn't played in a couple weeks - time to let him get his game legs. I suspect they're going to need him later in the road trip. No need to panic yet
ReplyDeleteIf there's a trade to be made it still needs to be for at least a top 4 D. It's not a good bet for the current group of D to keep up this level of play.
Steve Smith said:
ReplyDeleteI don't think there's any argument to be made that Eager, Pettrell, Hordichuk, or Lander (I include centres because we've currently got one playing the wing) has outplayed Omark.Eager, Pettrell, Hordichuk, or Lander (I include centres because we've currently got one playing the wing) has outplayed Omark.
Your point being that Omark should be playing on the 4rth line and killing penalties? Or on the 4rth line and 2nd PP unit? Or maybe he should be on the top shut down line with Horcoff and Smyth?
Steve, where would you slot Omark on the lineup?
I like Omark, but he's not good enough to play on the top six. He's a reasonable option on the PP, but though he looks great on the half wall, I'm not sure I'd play him on the 2nd PP unit either (depending on who's in the lineup)
If you want numbers, both his 5v4 Points per 60 (3.35) and GF/60 (3.83) were not not all-world.
If he slots in then someone sits. Maybe you could argue that PRV should sit, but PRV's bigger / faster / younger / better defensively and probably has more upside despite his poor start this season.
If you're going to suggest that he should play with Smyth and Horcoff on the grind line playing tough minutes, I won't even bother arguing with you. :)
I'm not a Jones fan myself, but for now he's served a purpose on that line.
If Hemsky ever returns, Jones drops down to 4RW and then PRV's really the only target in the top 9 to sit.
I actually liked watching Omark play with Bellanger for the record..
As for Omark, sure I'd love a trade with O'mark and Peckman for an upgrade on d.
Don't get me wrong, I like Omark, but I can't see where he fits on this lineup.
Steve, where would you slot Omark on the lineup?
ReplyDeleteIf I take out Eager, Hordichuck, or Pettrell, I slot Omark in in their place (though I don't put him on the PK if I take Pettrell out) - I don't get where this idea that you can't have talent on your fourth line comes from. And yeah, I probably put him on the second power play unit, but even if there's no room for him there, so what? He's contributing more at ES than whoever he's replacing would be.
Sorry that's GF ON/60 not GF/60.
ReplyDeleteLT:
ReplyDeleteAs long as the PK keeps rolling Petrell is in the lineup.Last year the PK cost this team,this year it is winning them games.
If you're going to suggest that he should play with Smyth and Horcoff on the grind line playing tough minutes, I won't even bother arguing with you. :)
ReplyDeleteWell, that's not where I'd put him. But I see very little reason to believe that he'd fare worse than Jones.
LT: I'm sorry, I've got to disagree with you on this one. At this point, I'd much rather send Omark down and actually get him some playing time than consistently sit him in the press box. Aside from Woodguy's reasonable contention that this could be a tune up so Omark can return once the winning stops, let's look at the players you thought Omark should replace:
ReplyDeletePaajarvi: You've already posted the Corsi numbers so I don't know why you'd add him on your last. MP is driving play in the right direction, generating chances and is already more defensively responsible than Omark. Plus, you'd hurt both players by swapping them on and off. I think we can throw this name out right away.
Petrell: the guy is an important part of the NHL's 4th ranked powerplay. He's also trusted by Renney to face some tougher competition, especially at the end of the game. Given that the kids are facing the soft parade and gobbling up PP time, Petrell is a very useful, defensive minded player who can spell Horc and Smyth. And as for the inevitable reply that Omark can play the PP? I know some people love Omark there, but I'm not a big fan, by eye or by numbers. He was 8th last year in 5v4 P/60 and was ahead of guys like Hall and Gagner who aren't going to get sat for him. Personally, I'd rather keep the PK defensive guy over Omark right now as Omark won't be able to replace his contribution.
Eager: I'll grant that I'd rather see Omark in than Eager right now. However, if nothing else changed in the lineup, that means Omark would be sliding into the 4th line which is generally being used in an agitating/defensive role. Is that really the best fit for Omark? Or is it better to get him so good minutes in OKC instead? I say OKC.
Summary: until the Oilers lose a few more games/Jones comes back down to earth/more injuries ensue, there just isn't a place for Omark in this lineup. It doesn't make sense to sit any of the above players (more so, given Renney's love for an enforcer/agitator) until something changes.
Cactus: I'd HS Paajarvi to get Omark into action often enough to keep him here. I also think the PK can afford to live without Petrell for a night and Eager doesn't need to play every game either.
ReplyDeleteRenney could rotate these guys through.
If I take out Eager, Hordichuck, or Pettrell, I slot Omark in in their place (though I don't put him on the PK if I take Pettrell out)
ReplyDeleteWell, how much Offense will he contribute 5v5 taking Eager, Hordichuk, or Pettrell's minutes then?
Especially if you consider that he'd be playing with Lander, Eager, or Pettrell? :p
Hordichuk - GP 3 TOI/60 (5v5)= 1.35 min
Eager - (5v5) 6.66 min TOI / 60
Pettrell - 8.38 Toi/60 (5v5) with 43.4 ozone %
He can't take Hordichuks' minutes because Hordi's a guy who (when healthy) is mostly a PB / 1-2 min / game player.
Pettrell's minutes are on the wrong end of the ice and he kills 2 min / game 4v5. 43% ozone or so.
I don't have any math for this argument, but the kid line is not a tough physical line. The old man shut down line is injury prone, grinds but doesn't exactly soften up the dmen. Bellanger/Gagner/PRV are also not known for their respective physical brand of hockey.
I'd prefer having a player in the top six from the Dustin Brown mold, but we don't have anything close in the top nine.
Behind the net won't support my argument, but yeah I do think we at least need some push back in our 4rth line. :p Omark isn't it.
It isn't about taking Petrell or Eager or Paajarvi out of the lineup for 10 games, but you could easily rotate them through so no one sits too long.
ReplyDeleteNo room for forwards on the PP: Hemsky, RNH, Hall, Smyth, Eberle, Horcoff
ReplyDeleteNo room for forwards on the PK: Horcoff, Belanger, Smyth, Petrell, Lander, Jones, MPS
Not much room in the top 9, ES-minute eating wingers: Hall, Eberle, Smyth, Hemsky, Gagner, MPS,
When this team is healthy, Omark is a 4th line guy, who is miles better than Eager, Jones, and Petrell at ES, but can't PK.
I agree that Eager should've gone down, but NHL teams feel a need to have some toughess on the 4th line, so that wouldn't happen.
I also agree that Omark is a better replacement for Hemsky in the lineup than Jones, but Eberle and Gagner are now solid RW's' and have pushed Omark into a competition for bottom 6 role, where the value of his better play at ES is limited.
Really, there needs to be a trade, which we might be excited about if Tambellini were a good GM.
I agree with LT on this. I can't say that I clearly prefer Omark to MPS but I can't say it the other way either. Similarly, I'm not wild about the fourth line.
ReplyDeleteIn any event, writing's on the wall I think: I look forward to Omark catching on somewhere else.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteBlame Lander. RNH, Horcoff and Belanger are more responsible defensively than Gagner and were clearly ahead of him in the rotation at center once the season started.
ReplyDeleteLander’s grit, skating and defensive acumen at the NHL level this early had to have been unexpected and has forced Gagner to the wing at Omark’s expense.
As of now, there is only room for one smaller, offense first winger not named Eberle on a team transitioning to skilled, size first wingers who can match and/or neutralize similar players on other teams.
Secondary scoring is needed, yes, and when Hemsky comes back, Lander will still be at center, Gagner will be forced to sit, and Omark will still be in the minors.
If I take out Eager, Hordichuck, or Pettrell, I slot Omark in in their place (though I don't put him on the PK if I take Pettrell out) - I don't get where this idea that you can't have talent on your fourth line comes from
ReplyDeleteYou can have talent but you need to have some ability to impose your will when the goals are not coming. Either virtually every hockeyman on this side of the Atlantic is out to lunch or there is some merit to the ability to be physical.
As I said in an earlier thread, if you go:
kids
94-10-83
91-20-89
23-57-28,
You have a very, very soft lineup - likely the softest in the league. There is virtually no one who can throw a hit or who can drop the gloves.
I'd take Hartikanen in this lineup over 23 all day long.
MC79
ReplyDeleteSimilarly, I'm not wild about the fourth line.
Hard to disagree though it is a quantum leap over what we had on the 4rth line last season--if that means anything...
As for rotating Omark, he's only 4 games away from losing his waiver exemption which complicates things.
Considering that he didn't play the SEL card, I'm not sure that having him play regularly in OKC isn't such a bad thing from an asset management / contract perspective.
Bouncing Omark in and out of the lineup might with plenty of time in the PB might not be a great way to develop the player or asset.
You can have talent but you need to have some ability to impose your will when the goals are not coming.
ReplyDeleteIf the goals aren't coming, then either we're not imposing our will, or our will is defective.
And I agree that there's merit to being physical...it's why power forwards are so useful. I'm saying that that merit is reflected in the stats, and isn't something that needs to be considered apart from them.
I don't have a huge problem with this move, assuming that Omark is on board with reporting to the AHL and not going back to Sweden.
ReplyDeleteIt's better that he play in the AHL rather than sit in the pressbox. The team is winning without him, and he wasn't producing when he was playing.
Throw in what I perceive to be issues with Omark buying into Renney's system this season and the move becomes even less of an issue.
He'll be back in the NHL with the Oilers this season. If a team wants to offer something of value for him, all the better.
Fuck, I love watching the Oil and reading these blogs, but by fucking Christ am I tired of all the bitching.
ReplyDeleteThe kid (25 year old kid, mind you, already older than 5 of the top 9) had no points and hadn't played in 5 games. It sounds like Tambellini talked to him and he agreed to go to the AHL and work on his game and/or bide time for an opportunity here or elsewhere. What a terrible idea!
Jesus, he's a decent and original hockey player. I like him, but he's not better than 4, 93, 14, 10, 94, 83, 89, 91, or 20. He's bring different skills than 37 and 57 (no PK). We can argue about the benefits of Eager and Hordichuk, but they play 3-5 minutes a game. Is giving Omark those minutes gonna make a difference?
Moreover, I thought everyone around here got wet about the "Detroit model." Ya know, let players develop until they have the skills and opportunity to contribute. Is Omark so much better than the alternative that this is unreasonable here?
ReplyDeleteArguing with people who probably figure the 83-84 Oilers had too much offence is pointless.
ReplyDeleteWhat Omark should be doing is playing and more importantly practicing with qualified coaching. He could be made into an excellent defensive player (he's already okay. Those spouting cliche crap about his d being bad are full of it).
Annoying move. But they've picked their favorites and PR champs...so...yeah.
Who'd a thunk it? -)
ReplyDeleteLowetide is "criticizing" Tambellini and Renney for trying to have a "balanced" roster.
Eager, Lander, and Petrell are pretty important to being able to play the kid line one the road, because they can be used to disrupt the line matching.
And Petrell is critical to the PK. The Oilers would be losing if not for the 4th ranked PK.
The way I see this is we have hashed out three fairly decent, very role-defined, set lines. Those lines are 1 (kids), 2 (Horc shut-down), and 4 (basically a poor man's 3-line with some serious PK chops). The third line remains pretty undefined, with a faceoff god in Belanger who is spotted around for d-zone draws, and wingers who neither have much chemistry with Belanger nor very well defined roles. That 3-line is the current black hole of supplementary scoring, where you'd really expect something to be happening. None of Paajarvi, Omark, or Gagner has been able to make anything happen there so far. Is it a checking line? Not with a miscast Gagner on it. Is it a scoring line? Not with zero goals.
ReplyDeleteI would *only* sub Omark for either Paajarvi or Gagner and for whatever reason that isn't currently happening.
To me, right now, this largely comes down to Omark or Gagner. The brave choice is Gagner, but you don't invest four years in somebody and sit him for Omark at this point. And it's only going to get worse when/if Hemsky can play for real.
Decisions to be made. But it's all about the 3-line.
How sweet it is to debating which talented forward cannot make the lineup when just over six months ago the Oiler line-up featured such future hall of famers as O'Marra, Van de Velde, and Reddox. Ha! The worm has turned and the Oilers truly have depth. More muscle up front is months or a year away in the form of H'tkn'n Pitlick and maybe even Hamilton.
ReplyDeleteLinus simply does not fit at the moment. But who knows 10 games down the road if Gagner starts to play well he may have more trade value than Linus for Oiler needs.
So much more fun to debate this than looking at potential 1st overall picks for 2012
While I enjoy line 4, no 4th line is worth sitting a guy who immediately makes your 2nd pp relevant again.
ReplyDeleteI like Omark, he has a lot of potential but I think free agency and the arrival of RNH has basically forced him out of the top 9.
ReplyDeleteYou could play him on the 4th line but our coach clearly wants the 4th line to be devoted to "role players" who are either pugilists or penalty killers. I don't really have an issue with carrying penalty killers on the 4th line as we aren't the first and likely won't be the last to do so.
You could arguably bump Gagner up to play with Smyth and Horcoff and slot Omark in with MPS and Belanger and knock Jones down to the 4th line. Obviously that puts Omark back in the press box when Ales Hemsky comes back off the injury list.
At that point you are either pulling Gagner or MPS out of the line up to play Omark. I tend to view both MPS and Gagner as superior options to Omark.
Renney is historically in love with crash and bang 4th lines so there is really no room for Omark there so he's essentially the odd man out. Omark remains an interesting option but if we have to pick which of MPS, Gagner and Omark is to be the odd man out of the top 9 I think Renney has made the right decision.
//While I enjoy line 4, no 4th line is worth sitting a guy who immediately makes your 2nd pp relevant again.//
ReplyDeleteThe 2nd PP has a goal in each of the last two games.
LMHF#1 said... While I enjoy line 4, no 4th line is worth sitting a guy who immediately makes your 2nd pp relevant again.
ReplyDeleteOmark has no 5x4 PP points and has not been on the ice for a PP goal this year.
Last year, he was 4/10 among Oilers with 2+ min of PP and 20+ games in 5x4 Points/60 (3.35). However, he was dead last in 5x4 GF/60 (3.83). Those numbers were 152nd and 244th in the league (same filters).
Again, I like Omark but it's as much about attitude and style as results. He's 25, and he's not really that exceptional. He's got balls the size of coconuts, and he can keep the puck in the good end of the ice, but his blind bullet passes to the slot are becoming a bit predictable. I think he has potential, but I also think this is probably the right move at this time. That might change in a few games, and would certainly be changed by injury to a top 9 forward.
Nice to see the Flames struggle again tonight
ReplyDeleteThat Jones signing sure looks great.
ReplyDeleteSo if detroit does it, its brilliant and a sign of good asset managemnet/development, but if the oilers do it its terrible?
ReplyDeleteGotcha
To quote George Santayana: Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers have gone through this expunging of players before. Notably smaller players. The Ray Whitney type player that everyone can see has talent, and is not soft, but is held back due to physical stature and organizational bias.
Karma can be a bitch, and life has a way of slapping down conventional thinkers.
Don't be surprised if Omark finally reaches his potential with some other organization; an organization that doesn't treat him like a dog's breakfast simply because he isn't a coke machine and doesn't have the asethetic qualities some desire in NHL players.
As an interesting summary of the more recent NHL play-off provincial heartbreak:
Martin St. Louis helped knock off the Flames in '04. That was fun.
Ray Whitney helped knock the Oilers in '06. That was painful.
Would things have been different had the Oilers, and not Carolina, had the services of the talented player whose first exposure to the NHL was through his experiences as the Oilers stick boy during the latter part of the glory years?
Similarly, Omark is a talent and may have the potential to be a game changer. Only time will tell. So why not at least give him a chance? One year playing with quality forwards? Omark displays dogged determination around the puck and in the corners. We need more of that.
Even if the depth chart prevents Omark from getting involved in the top nine, the fact is that if Omark is traded before his full value can be ascertained, it will be a substantial step backwards for the Edmonton Oilers.
Let's hope this AHL stint is simply a tune-up for better days ahead.
Or as Yogi Berra might say, it could be deja vu all over again.
Yeah Detroit would've HSed Draper or Maltby for a talented kid. Rotated them out of the line up rather than using their AHL team. Freeze the kid out of all ice time when the coach doesn't want to play him. Let the kid win over Babcock when the kid doesn't want to listen to him. Yeah, Detroit would've done those things.
ReplyDeleteThere are any number of reasons why Omark was sent down. None of them involve a relCorsi list based on mere minutes of play. Or is that not obvious?
Let the kid win over Babcock when the kid doesn't want to listen to him.
ReplyDeletespOILer - I vaguely recall you saying before that you know people who know people in the Oilers - I actually think I explicitly remember but I'll let you decide to mention names or not.
I've never seen it reported that Omark won't listen to the coaches. I went and looked at his last games before he sat to see how Renney was using him - Renney was using him in the last 15 minutes of 1 goal games and sitting Eberle/RNH/Hall or the fourth line guys.
When he had that game against Pitt earlier this year, it was easy to figure out why the coaches were unahppy. Judging by how Renney was using him when he was back in the lineup, I can't see it this time.
You got some decent info that they're not happy because he doesn't listen?
I actually think Renney likes Hartikainen better then Omark & Hamilton & Pitlick aren't far from surpassing LO as well! It's a question of size, speed & skill!
ReplyDeleteAh, dear oiler fans, it is truly wonderful to be reading a furious debate concerning which talented player not to put in the lineup so as to not destroy the mojo of a good winning streak, isn't?
ReplyDeleteIt beats out debating who to select for the 1st overall and what we should have gotten back for CFP five long years ago, doesn't it?
As to the matter at hand, I would urge everyone to remain patient. It's an 82 game season, and we're only 10 in. If ganger re-injures himself, Jones starts showing his weaknesses, or Eager plays himself out of the lineup, all of a sudden there's an opening for Omark to assert himself. Right now, Petrell is needed for the PK, Lander is doing fine as fourth line pivot, and MPS, despite his poor offensive start, is still directing the play in the right direction.
So realistically, you really only have Eager or Gagner to swap out for Omark. And will Omark really thrive by taking the 5 minutes a night Eager has been getting? The 4 year vet with 3 40 point seasons does not get sit for Omark.
So Omark's in a tough spot, b/c this lineup doesn't have a place for him, and that's a good thing: there is a lot of talent to go around.
But here's the thing- injuries are always right around the corner, and Omark being conditioned and ready to go in OKH isn't a bad thing. When he does get back in, he should be chomping at the bit.
I don't agree, however, with those who say Omark can't play well defensively. He has all the tools to be responsible and forceful in his own zone. I would hope the coaching staff could see that as well- b/c if Omark is to have a long term future with the club, he's going to have to become useful in ways that maybe he was not prepared for. There are only so many soft minutes to go around.
I for one think Omark could at least hold his own on the Horc-Smyth line. And that's not so much a compliment to Omark as much as it a denigration of Jones' abilities, which I think are nothing to write home about. You can't tell me Omark isn't just as strong on the half-wall and in the trenches as Jones' is, and Omark is twice the passer that Jones every could hope to be.
But let's have some patience. A balanced lineup is not a bad thing.
We do indeed have some depth, but that can quickly disappear. Does anyone remember the Eberle injury from last season? Omark could get back in sooner than we think- all it takes is one winger to go down in any fashion.
Patience is the order of the day.
From Cornet's twitter:
ReplyDelete"Congrats to @tubes33 good luck up there #Oilers #OKC_Barons"
Guess it's unofficially official.
Actually Ty, I was going off comments by Renney and others when he was sent down after last TC.
ReplyDeleteAnd I am not saying that this lack of listening is the case here, only that it might be (since it was in the past). As I said above, there are any number of reasons why Omark was sent down. And, in Life, it's usually a combination of things, not one, as you know.
It just strikes me that this salon has become more of a courtroom than a lab. No one is testing hypotheses; they're holding trials and goal-seeking the result they want.
I thought the goal of Starfleet was exploration and science, not law-bringing and justice.
So how do the Oilers fit Barrie Moore and Craig Millar into lineup after the trade?
ReplyDeletemc79 said...I agree with LT on this. I can't say that I clearly prefer Omark to MPS but I can't say it the other way either. Similarly, I'm not wild about the fourth line.
ReplyDeleteIn any event, writing's on the wall I think: I look forward to Omark catching on somewhere else.
I'd agree that MPS and Omark are close at this time...but Omark is 4 games from waivers and 5 years older. If he's ineffective in those 4 games you're in a bind. MPS has a higher ceiling (IMO) and if you're going to use a roster spot to develop a player, I think he's a better bet in the short and long term. They've both got goose eggs 5v5, but MPS has a better CorsiRel, lower GA/60 and a slightly tougher zone start. Small sample size, obviously.
Can MPS still go to the AHL? That might not be a bad idea at some point, irrespective of how they handle Omark. Hartikainen might be more effective at this point than either.
As I said above, there are any number of reasons why Omark was sent down. And, in Life, it's usually a combination of things, not one, as you know.
ReplyDeleteThe problem I have with that is that from the outside, Renney looked to have been happy with Omark defensively when he came back in - and we've got guys saying he stinks defensively.
I mean, I look at guys like MPS and Gagner - I'm going to stay away from Eberle, although I figure he's in this discussion too - and I can't figure out why they get miles of rope and Omark doesn't, outside of the obvious - they're guys some PR is invested in and Omark isn't.
I'm pretty sure that plays into it. It pisses the shit out of me because it strikes me that he's a potentially good hockey player who - even if he doesn't fit into this week's version of the plan - can still be groomed and exchanged for something that might. INstead, they seem to have made their choice, they'll futz around with Linus for a while and then trade him for pennies on the potential dollar to some team that's interested in giving him a shot.
Frustrating.
I mean, I look at guys like MPS and Gagner - I'm going to stay away from Eberle, although I figure he's in this discussion too - and I can't figure out why they get miles of rope and Omark doesn't, outside of the obvious - they're guys some PR is invested in and Omark isn't.
ReplyDeleteCertainly if you compare their numbers from last year on BTN, an argument can be made that 89, 91, and 23 are comparable. You might call it PR, but I'd say it's more about age and pedigree (and track record in Gagner's case). Plus, Omark has been part of the PR (HOPE!). I'm not convinced there's a quantitative argument that Omark has been wronged.
I saw your article on Renney's use of Omark in the dying minutes, but I also think that Renney likes to keep lines together (except the obvious changes like removing the goon in close games). I have no evidence for that, just my impression.
Kris Draper - drafted in 1989
ReplyDeleteIn 1991 played 7 games in the ahl, 3 games in the nhl then 39 games in the ohl
in 1992 played 61 games in the ahl and 10 games in the nhl
in 1993 played 67 games in ahl and 7 games in the nhl
in 1994 played 46 games in ahl and 39 games in nhl.
After that he played regularly in the nhl. He got bounced around . Its part of the process. I dont really see the big deal with O'mark getting sent down.
If O'mark is really that big of a deal, he should rip up the AHL and make it impossible for the Oilers to not have him on the team.
ReplyDeleteIf O'mark is really that big of a deal, he should rip up the AHL and make it impossible for the Oilers to not have him on the team.
ReplyDeleteHe did that last time they sent him down. He belongs in the NHL.
...Sigh.
I for one think Omark could at least hold his own on the Horc-Smyth line. And that's not so much a compliment to Omark as much as it a denigration of Jones' abilities, which I think are nothing to write home about.
ReplyDeleteI'm actually amazed that Jones has been serviceable if underwhelming making this line work (agree there). Given a current lack of alternatives, I'd be inclined to run with it until it stops working (which may not be too much longer).
Assuming lightening doesn't strike twice... I wouldn't expect Omark to be particularly well-suited to playing these tough minutes--nor would I expect anyone with 56 gp NHL under their belts to stay above water. These are some really tough minutes.
To clarify, I wasn't so much as criticizing Omark's defensive play as I was trying to say he just isn't a checker.
Omark's fairly slow, small, and his strengths play better to 5v4 / offensive zone play than trying to shut down the piss cutters starting his shifts at the bad end of the rink.
I do like Omark as a hockey player much in the same way that I used to enjoy watching Rowbear. Plenty of differences between the two in terms of their style of play--Rowbear probably was better at handling the puck (plus faster /bigger) while Omark plays with more grit. Both have/had something lacking from their game.
Mudcrutch I think you're looking too hard for some sort of anti-Omark biasis here.
ReplyDeleteI think its entirely reasonable to assume the calculus is as follows. All of Hall, RNH and Eberle are deemed to be superior offensive players to Omark. Their spots are not open to him.
Horcoff, Smyth and Belanger are killing penalties, playing strong defensive hockey and all but Belanger are putting up points.
Ryan Jones despite his flaws as a player seems to be playing well with Horcoff and Smyth and baring the return of Hemsky the coach has no desire to disrupt a line that is producing excellent results for him. And while player chemistry is difficult to measure WoW does attempt to do so. It might be interesting to see the numbers there.
MPS and Gagner are both larger and superior defensive hockey players to Omark. Nor was Omark really putting up points while in the line up. They also both come with superior pedigree as hockey players. They are getting chances so the offense should likely come as far as both players are concerned. Both players arguably bring as much or more offense to the table as Omark and they're larger players better in their own end.
The only player talent wise Omark could really challenge for a roster spot is Jones in the top 9. On the other hand while the line Jones is on continues to be ruthlessly effective, it seems unlikely to be disrupted for anyone other than Hemsky.
Omark is the littlest of the Hobbits. He does not appear to be a clearly superior player talent wise to anyone in the top 9 but Jones. Jones has played well and his line has been effective. While at the same time Omark is smaller and defensively less responsible than Gagner and MPS. He has not brought more offense than either of them. Hence he sits.
As strange as it may be to see this year Renney does seem to be emphasizing defense and special teams play this year. Thus far it is working beyond most fans most optomistic expectations. Hence I find it somewhat difficult to criticize his strategic choices while they continue to be appear remarkably effective. Obviously we're a little over 1/8th and we shall have a better idea what the team has with more games played.
One can make the argument that Omark shouldn't have been pulled from the line-up in the first place, but after he was, the team started winning. I'm not saying those two events are connected, but if the team is winning, why would they try to find room for Omark in the NHL line-up at this point?
ReplyDeleteWhen the Oilers start losing (sometime during this road-trip), THEN we can all take out the pitch-forks and threaten Renney and Tambellini to bring Omark back. Until that time, why shouldn't he play in the AHL? As soon as the Oilers lose two games in a row, that lack of secondary scoring out of Belanger, Paajarvi, and Gagner becomes an infinitely more pressing issue. At that point, something's got to give, and I suspect Omark will get the call. If he doesn't, THAT'S when I pull out the pitchforks and join the mob.
Either way, good problem to have!
Chris,
ReplyDeleteMPS and Gagner are both larger and superior defensive hockey players to Omark. Nor was Omark really putting up points while in the line up. They also both come with superior pedigree as hockey players. They are getting chances so the offense should likely come as far as both players are concerned. Both players arguably bring as much or more offense to the table as Omark and they're larger players better in their own end.
You had me up to here. This is a laughable paragraph.
Omark is almost 25 but some people act like he's a kid - he pretty much is what he is. The player has a few interesting skills but he will never go marty st louis on us. After he's gone his absence will bother me about much as seeing cogliano in a ducks uniform. Much fuss over modest talent - reminds me of the old JDD threads.
ReplyDeleteOmark is almost 25 but some people act like he's a kid - he pretty much is what he is. The player has a few interesting skills but he will never go marty st louis on us.
ReplyDeleteLast year Omark was 23 years old when the season started.
Omark 23yrs 51gp .529 pts/gm
St. Louis 23yrs 13gp .154 pts/gm
St. Louis 24yrs 56gp .321 pts/gm
St. Louis 25 yrs 78gp .513 pts/gm
St. Louis 26 yrs 53gp .660 pts/gm
St. Louis 27 yrs 82gp .854pts/gm
I'd say its far too early to say Omark won't be a contributor like St. Louis.
Its fine if you don't like him, but to write him off as a bit player at this point of his young career, given his talent and tenacity on the puck, is a mistake imo.
Yet again the Oilers throw away a player by trying to shoehorn him into a role he is I'll suited to.
ReplyDeleteWhen are these guys going to learn that success is fleeting when you mix and match.
I hope Linus reports, totally lights it up in OKC and finally the Oilers realize that they're wasting his talent laying him on in a checking role.
Also,
ReplyDeleteI guess I missed the 11th commandment:
THOU SHALT HAVE HOCKEY SKILL ONLY IN THE TOP 6 FORWARDS ON THOUEST NHL HOCKEY TEAM
Lets look at the final four teams in the NHL last year.
Top 12 forwards, sorted by regular season TOI (min 30 games played):
Tampa:
Martin St Louis
Steven Stamkos
Vincent Lecavalier
Simon Gagne
Ryan Malone
Dominic Moore
Nate Thompson
Adam Hall
Steve Downie
Teddy Purcell
Sean Bergenheim
Dana Tyrell
Boston:
David Krejci
Rich Peverley
Patrice Bergeron
Milan Lucic
Nathan Horton
Mark Recchi
Marc Savard
Chris Kelly
Michael Ryder
Brad Marchand
Gregory Campbell
Tyler Seguin
Daniel Paille
Sharks:
Patrick Marleau
Joe Thornton
Joe Pavelski
Dany Heatley
Ryane Clowe
Logan Couture
Devin Setoguchi
Kyle Wellwood
Torrey Mitchell
Benn Ferriero
Jamie McGinn
Ben Eager
Vancouver:
Ryan Kesler
Henrik Sedin
Daniel Sedin
Alexandre Burrows
Mikael Samuelsson
Chris Higgins
Manny Malhotra
Mason Raymond
Jannik Hansen
Raffi Torres
Jeff Tambellini
Maxim Lapierre
Looks like those 4 teams didn't see the memo about having skill in the bottom 6 forwards.
The Oilers are NOT trying to shoehorn Omark into a role he is ill-suited too. Which is why he is in OKC waiting to be traded or for injuries.
ReplyDeleteThey just signed a much more useful player during the summer, Petrell, who has entrenched himself in the roster who does things the Oilers need done to win games, things that Omark is NOT good at. Petrell even delayed Hartikainen.
The things Omark is good at, the Oilers have better options.
Hopefully, and thankfully, the Oilers seem they are going to do the right thing for Omark and find him an NHL team who has room for him, instead of procrastinating and being indecisive.
Godot:
ReplyDeleteHow can you claim that the things Omark is good at, the Oilers have better options, when the guy is on a checking line with little offensive push by the other two forwards?
Even Hall looks foolish trying to make plays by himself without the other players on the line in the zone.
Belanger and MPS are defensive-oriented players in a defensive oriented system, on a defensive-oriented line, often dumping the puck in.
Omark does not fit in there, and his play this season was doing too much to be the lone creative player in a losing situation.
Comparing him to Petrell and Hartikainen is totally proving my point, I don't care if Omark plays 3 years in OKC, he'll never be that kind of player, and the OIlers brass assuming such is foolish.
He'd be better served replacing Jones on the Horcoff line, after he comes back up.
Whoa Woodguy, slow down there. Your notable reason, logic and wit seemed to go missing in that last series of posts!
ReplyDeleteAre you really going to put forward an argument that we can't yet prove that Omark won't become St. Louis? That's just silly. We also can't prove conclusively that Pajaarvi won't become the next Forsberg. Since LT suggested that MP be sat for Omark, I will argue that I'd rather have Forsberg in the lineup than St. Louis. Hopefully we can all agree this is an absurd exercise.
As for the question of having skill in the bottom six, this reflects a troubling myopia on the part of some of the Omark boosters. The Oilers, as currently constructed, aren't running a bottom six filled with JFJs or MacIntyres. Good, skilled players like Gagner and MP are in the bottom six!
I think that's ultimately the problem with this discussion. Some people are arguing like it's 2010 - i.e. the Oilers are losing and they have bad players in the lineup. But it's time to become accustomed to the new (temporary?) reality that they Oilers have a lot of good forwards and they're winning. When/if that changes, it's time to re-evaluate, but all this discussion is demonstrating is Oilers' fans abaility for self-flagellation.
I read that afterwards Kinger and regretted there was no edit function. But it likely won't be the first or last post written in the middle of the night which does violence to the english language.
ReplyDeleteThis actually strikes me as a positive sign. He's of no benefit to anyone (himself included) on the bench and has been mentioned in this thread a few times already, we have all admired the 'Detroit model' from afar. And it's trademark has been patiently and confidently developing players without rushing them in. Bring them up for a while, send them back down to work on what they need to until they are finally ready to be a full-time contributor.
ReplyDeleteI think a lot of us have become so jaded and frustrated by player departures and a lack of popularity among free agents that emotion gets the better of us and we base our decisions (rationalized post-hoc of course) on fear of rejection.
Would it be better if Omark were playing? Probably. Will he have a better chance of developing and will he get more ice time at OKC? Almost certainly. Are we secretly afraid of playing hard to get and ending up rejected but yet another sexy hockey player? Yup.
When Detroit sends a player down, I don't think (and I could be wrong) that there's a lot of hand-wringing and worry that the player will high-tail it for another league or another team. Why? Because they see the methodology, they've bought into it, and there is a track record of results to back up the methodology. Edmonton is slowly developing a track record but there are a few leaps of faith involved and the confidence of knowing that we are becoming a team that players believe in and feel it's worth sticking with.
Trading him for pennies on the dollar may still happen and that's a slightly different issue, but I'm not sure that sitting him in the press box or giving him limited NHL ice-time with bottom-six minutes and points to match would be increasing that value much.
So I keep reading Omark is being wasted on a line with heavy defensive responsibility and that he should instead play on the Horcoff-Smyth line.
ReplyDeleteAm I missing something??
IC - I think you nailed it. If the Oil had experience in this move then we'd be lauding management for letting Omark find his offense (has been lacking a bit so far).
ReplyDeleteOmark is better served lighting up the goalies in the AHL than worrying about a shutdown role in the NHL. His time will come - he's already shown he is capable of it.
I would rather have Omark than Gagner, they are likely competing for the same spot. I prefer Omark's tenacity and creativity.
ReplyDeleteGiven Gagner sort of plays centre as well he will likely get the nod.
Interesting discussion.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I have to say here is that going to the AHL and playing top line minutes and 1st line PP is NOT going to hinder Omark's development. Oh wait, maybe he'll improve his defensive awareness; we wouldn't want that right?!
I'm ALL for Omark going down until a top 9 forward gets hurt or a losing skid begins. Either way, he needs to improve his all around game big time.
gotta give credit to 23 for going down to OKC and hoping to work his way back.
ReplyDeleteThe guy I'm worried about is 91 and I hope 83's return is tied to getting him going; either by moving 91 to the line of 94-10 or playing him with 89-83.
I know Jones isn't shitting the bed playing with 94-10 but we know those guys are good together and a lot of fellows could look good playing with them. So I'm not overly worried about messing it up and early on the 55 contract looks as equally appetizing as does 28's.
Team sits where they do in the standings and we're questioning why Omark gets sent down? Beats last seasons dilemmas all to hell.
ReplyDeleteAgreed with those that say this is between Gagner and Omark at RW and no chance a Lowe first rounder loses that battle. Theres an argument that could be made for Omark playing ahead of Magnus, and imo Gagner, but not Petrell. Not with the way this PK is clicking right now.
Traded on his own he won't garner much but if he's part of a bigger deal I'm ok with it. Just better not be Petry going along with him when there are more suitable candidates.
Hard to make any case for Omark when he has ZERO points and the team has won 5 straight without his offensive wizardry in the lineup. He's an interesting but very replaceable player on this team - off the Oklahoma - yaaaaaawn.
ReplyDeleteI think it's reasonable to part ways with. As I said it seems guys not drafted by the group seem to draw the short straw.
ReplyDeleteBut it's just stupid to send him down. You're damaging his value by making him look like you don't want him anymore.
Well we sure are Oilers' fans, this is over reaction to the greatest degree. Renney had mentioned that he wanted to get Omark back in the line up. Renney won't do that until the team loses. Omark could use a couple of games to get his hockey legs going for when he does get the call. Once the oilers lose 1 or a few games, another player can get sent down(Lander) to OKC and Omark will get recalled. If Omark gets traded I will recant my statement, but let's see what actually happens before we start jumping to wild conclusions like trading Omark for a 4th rounder.
ReplyDeleteEveryone relax and take a breath.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAbout Omark replacing Petrell and the PP suffering: y'all know Renney said the PK is a team within a team who takes great pride in their work. Maybe that's the feeling on the PP too.
ReplyDeleteYou could imagine if Omark, without earning it, replacing a PK line player would not be met well by the players.
The best idea in the room is LT's HS Paajarvi just to keep them both in the lineup and active, but Renney is a superstitious coach apparently (someone pointed out the tie -- I missed that, nice one).
Omark will not be "another" anyone; he's Omark. But I tell you what, if I can live without Penner, a player I really liked, then I can live without Omark, who sometimes does stuff that makes me cringe (i.e., his last shootout).
Personally, I think we only need to make one trade all season, for one single d-man, and keep the entire squad minus that one single trade sacrifice.