- Renney: "I was surprised by the lack of intellect in as to why that would come about," Renney said of the reaction to his comments. "Why wouldn't I at least consider, never having said I would, what our team would look like without him in the lineup?
- More Renney: "If you want to know how valuable a guy is, you don't really know how much you miss someone until you don't have him anymore ... I was kind of disappointed it grew the legs that it did, and people started to draw conclusions he might not play. I never, ever said he wouldn't play in the next game. I never said that at all."
Aside from the media's running with a non-story, coach Renney made an error from my point of view. He badly misread the situation and his role in it. Or did he?
Tom Renney's a smart guy. So he gathers some reporters around, mulls an RHN scratch and then reacts when it is considered news? Where exactly did he think this thing would go? Why would he mull it over in public view and then be surprised when the story has legs?
Seems like a disconnect, intellect-wise.
The next season, he put the boots to THOSE numbers. Killed it. 27-111-.320 114 walks and 60 steals, plus of course another gold glove at second base. But the NL didn't give consecutive MVP awards, not even to Stan Musial. But he HAD to win the MVP, Morgan was the best player. Morgan did in fact win two in a row, but the vote in year one (first place votes 21 for Morgan) and year two (first place votes 19 for Morgan) went backwards in the season he was most dominant.
--
I thought of Joe Morgan today, and those BBWAA writers who had boxed themselves in. I believe coach Renney will keep RNH but would like to make that decision based on all kinds of factors. I believe the fans were basing the decision on Taylor Hall's performance of one year ago: if RNH performed at a clearly higher level than Hall through the trial games, then RNH earned the season.
Coach Renney doesn't see it that way and is surprised that people don't understand his line of thinking. I bet those old cigar smoking BBWAA guys could relate.
Blame Joe Morgan and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins. Completely uncooperative. The BBWAA finally decided to man up and vote the right way.
Will Renney? If he does send RNH down, what does that tell us about him? How will the fans react to it?
Interesting times.
It's impossible to send him down. He's the leading scorer on the worst offensive team in the NHL, ffs.
ReplyDeleteThe good news: I just found my hip flask has a half cup of malt whisky in it. Good times!
hunter: Yes, but it tests a man's mettle to have the decision taken from him.
ReplyDeleteCoach Renney is about to tell us something about himself.
Nice article here about the early impact of Sutton and Potter.
ReplyDeletehttp://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/
NHL/Edmonton/2011/10/23/18866891.html
Particularly liked this comment from Khabibulin on Sutton:
It’s nice to have a guy back there who is big in front of the net. He blocks everything, boxes people out. It’s hard to get in front of the net when he’s out there.
And it's not like he's going anywhere in a hurry.
ReplyDeleteWell, RNH is arguably the best forward on the team. The team sits right outside playoff position(7 games in lol), and, to my eye they give off the exact same vibe as the 2006 Pens/Caps. Young team fast rising, and all that.
ReplyDeleteJust for fits and giggles, compare the situation down Highway 2 way - aging, unmotivated veteran out-of playoff team with little more to hope for than another fight for 8th place. Bad players, coaching, management, whatever. Oh yeah, and that famous Canadian chestnut of a fan base that won't accept a lottery team. Ditto the Canadiens, for that matter.
It's astonishing to see the level of instant vitriol directed at Renney after those pair of late losses. I mean, who wouldn't have been HAPPY to know the Oilers were going to be playing this well this time of this season? of course with that last 2-0 win, the hounds are back inside the kennel.
If they did send him down, then it contradicts the message of "trying to win".
ReplyDeleteLowe (on the Rangers broadcast Saturday night) was in the booth with the Rangers PBP man and GUARANTEED they aren't finishing last.
I would imagine their might finally be some impact on ticket sales if they force losing again AND sending out arguably their #1 sellable asset simultaneously.
He's going nowhere
hunter: The point here is that there was no hint of a story until Renney made it a story.
ReplyDeleteWHY would he do that? THEN he implies there's an intellect issue?
Come the hell on. This is a power struggle for Renney at some level. He wants to cheat for wins this season and the kid is delivering a lot.
Simply no reason for him to mull things over in front of the media, which is one of the least intelligent things I've heard of in miles.
Intellect wise, I mean. :-)
Lowetide: Fair point, but with the Oilers, every fart gets analysed to the extent that puts any Monty Python sketch to shame.
ReplyDeleteThis is one rabid fan base!
hunter: lol. I just find it interesting that things are humming along and the coach starts talking about HSing his leading scorer so they can see what they look like without him.
ReplyDeleteI mean, I'm not a coach but that sounds a little like batshit crazy.
And I supported his thinking until today's quote. You can't have it both ways: if you're thinking about it and floating an idea, then fine.
ReplyDeleteBut suggesting there's an addled brain behind the reaction seems to be a half bubble off plumb.
Renney gets the benefit of Hopkins getting a boot in the ass, after Hopkins hears whispers in the media that he is still on the bubble. Renney further benefits by then turning around and saying that he was never considering it, he has 100% confidence in the player, and he has no idea how they construed his comments that way. He comes out clean in the players' eyes.
ReplyDeleteMedia, bad. Renney, good.
Maybe that's just my interpretation.
-----
On a related aside, the Oilers home-heavy schedule is a bit of a detriment for evaluating Hopkins in 9 games or less. At the 9 game mark we will only have played 2 on the road, where Hopkins needs to be evaluated. We probably would benefit from sitting him for 2 home games and then testing him out 2 times on the road before making the final call.
jon k: And THAT is the real issue imo. RNH is still trying for his first road point and looks like a different player on the road.
ReplyDeleteWhy wouldn't Renney say that? That's a thing.
Look at that, another thing we can say we genuinely miss about MacT: his candour.
ReplyDeleteI'm not as offended as others about Renney's actions, but it strikes me there are good reasons to ponder sitting RNH. Why hide them? I guess one could always say that he's trying very hard to protect the player's confidence.
"Body of work" - Renney has been saying this since the draft it seems, referring to what they will look at when evaluating RNH.
ReplyDeleteIt's funny. Little Bieber-haired kid seems to be making the decison makers squirm a bit. He is throwing a monkey wrench into what I think was a Horcoff, Gagner, Belanger, Lander centered team for 11-12.
Renney gets the big bucks. He will earn them here in next little while for sure, navigating the roster decisions and his public comments.
Ritch Winter just sold his business.
ReplyDeleteSomething is afoot Watson.
Columbus?
An maybe Renney is just messing with everybody. I know I would if I was in his position, just keeping everyone on their toes and attract a little extra attention to the club in the mean time.
ReplyDeleteMakes sense. Winter has wanted to be a GM since before Gillis retired.
ReplyDeleteI think jon k has an excellent point. the kid is killing the soft minutes when he can be protected at home with the last change.
ReplyDeleteHow much value is there in having the kid struggle for the 41 away games when it really means he's not ready for the NHL this year.
Renney is dammed cause the fan base will string him up if he is the reason he gets sent back to Red Deer - no matter how good that would be for his development.
I think from Renney's eye, the kid isn't ready - unless he can hit a home run in a couple of away games.
If that's the case, have him do lunch with Brule, catch the flu for a couple of home games and insert him back in for some road games.
They need to know if the 2 road games are an anomaly or a trend.
Bob McKenzie
ReplyDeleteTSNBobMcKenzie Bob McKenzie
Hockey biz news: Agents Gerry Johansson & Steve Kotlowicz have purchased Edmonton-based The Sports Corporation agency from Ritch Winter.
25 minutes ago
Story says Winter is keeping his business. TSC had a bit of an ugly lawsuit a little while back and reading the decision, it looked might there might be some internal strains, although whether they are any more than is normal who knows.
ReplyDeleteMC: Yeah, it's still an interesting story. Sounds like Winter is downsizing, although he's pretty young for that.
ReplyDeleteIt seemed like a case of Renney getting frustrated with reporters trying to manufacture the news. I get tired with people asking me the same question twice, can't imagine what it's like being a pro coach.
ReplyDeleteHalf and half Tyler...holding on to a few clients.
ReplyDeleteBob McKenzie
TSNBobMcKenzie Bob McKenzie
Winter will have "consulting" role with TSC but will maintain his own business with his own clients (such as Bryzgalov, Giordano, Hodgson).
40 minutes ago
He's up to something.
I bet Eagleson is shaking in his boots.
ReplyDeleteDSF -
ReplyDeleteIf he's holding onto his own clients, then there's nothing happening. Can't be a GM and have a few clients on the side.
@ Tyler
ReplyDeleteHe may be looking for a soft landing for them.
Makes no sense to sell your business and keep on doing business.
What's in it for the buyers?
DSF: He could downsize his business, right? And they could have some kind of language that protects the buyer from being raided.
ReplyDeleteOr is that not possible?
He may be looking for a soft landing for them.
ReplyDeleteMakes no sense to sell your business and keep on doing business.
What's in it for the buyers?
While I think there may be some smoke for the GM thing, if he is keeping a handful of clients, I'd guess what he sold was his interest in the remaining clients, whatever that percentage may be.
@ LT
ReplyDeletePossible I guess.
My gut tells me something else is going on.
As for the Renney thing, he and the management get smoother ride from the local media than a Lamborghini on a Phoenix freeway.
ReplyDeleteThis is the first time that he was called out by the fishwraps and other assorted hangers on, and it probably took him surprise.
What's been printed for the last two years is REBUILD, BLAH, BLAH, DRAFT PICKS, BLAH, BLAH, FUTURE.
To read something different must have been new.
Habs with another L. When Jacques Martin finds out tomorrow he's going to be upset.
ReplyDeleteIf I'm Howson I do Johansson for Schneider. I'm sure Mason can get part time work at Jim Carrey's autobody shop.
ReplyDeletePerhaps Rich Winter us smart enough to know that he has amassed a lot of wealth and is looking for some time with grand kids an to vacations in sunny places.
ReplyDeleteseems like the agent is selling for positive cash, while keeping his best assets. Future clients that come to the company have a radically different fee allocation.
ReplyDeletehe just got rid of the second mortgage and now has the profit AND the house he likes. people do this all the time.
i'm more curious what he does with the cash -- is there a natural gas play out there he's got a line on ;)
@ Ben
ReplyDeleteWord out here on the coast is that Gillis and Howson are working on a blockbuster.
Schneider would certainly be part of the deal and likely Hodgson but no idea what would be going the other way.
Nash?
I'll say Johansson, Mason, good pick for Schneider and Ballard.
ReplyDeleteThat the Oilers have not announced that Nuge is staying up has me real nervous that they could do the unthinkable.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention that ESPN article saying he could be sent back down.
They told Hall well before this point last year...
According to Team 1260, they told Hall last season after the 4th game but didn't announce it to the media until the 8th game. How does anyone know that that hasn't happened with RNH already. It's all speculative bullshit so far, I'm not going to let my panties get bunched. I'd be shocked if they sent the kid down, they wouldn't be able to explain it to their fanbase and they might even get "criticized" by the local media. That's probably not something the Oiler's brass is willing to do.
ReplyDeleteHere's what sending RNH down tells the fans: "Even though he's our best player, we want another high draft pick - so thanks for the financial support over these past lottery years suckers...we're going for the trifecta".
ReplyDeleteIn an instant the entire season gets thrown out the window, so we can all focus instead on Katz's lawyers v Edmonton City Council.
Here's what sending RNH down tells the fans: "Even though he's our best player, we want another high draft pick - so thanks for the financial support over these past lottery years suckers...we're going for the trifecta".
ReplyDeleteAlso, "We understand the CBA."
Perhaps Renney just wants a look at Gagner between Hall and Eberle and RNH has made that a difficult thing to do. It's a lot easier to draw up that flowchart when/if Hemsky comes back than keeping the kid around.
ReplyDelete4-89-14
94-10-83
91-20-23
55-57-28
(14-37)
To my eye thats a tougher lineup to play against on the road.
Also, "We understand the CBA."
ReplyDeleteExactly, that is why I think TamBelownikatzini had decided before the season began to send RNH down no matter what happened. No matter how tempting it would be to keep him up.
The problem is that RNH has made it almost impossible to do so.
I guess that is a good problem to have!
Exactly, that is why I think TamBelownikatzini had decided before the season began to send RNH down no matter what happened.
ReplyDeleteAnd yet last year, by all appearances they went into the season intending for Taylor Hall to stay the whole year (not that they wouldn't have sent him down if he'd looked completely out of his depth, just that they didn't expect to do so). Why do you think this year is different?
I guess that is a good problem to have!
Yes. And I'm actually on the fence about whether he should go back (despite my love of extending ELCs for as long as possible, I may concede that there is some theoretical point at which a player is simply too good for junior). But the tenor of this thread seems to be "Wow, sending RNH down is just the sort of moronic move I expect from Tambellini!", when in fact it's just the sort of thoroughly defensible move that I don't expect from Tambellini.
I'll bet a 24 that RNH is not going back to Red Deer.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that he (apparently) hasn't been told anything may be a sign of how management has changed its approach. Besides, Taylor Hall knew after 4 games last year and how did he play again? just saying.
I like how management has played its cards so far. Its obvious that players who perform well this year are getting ice time. Happy to see it.
CLB is hurt plenty, I can see them turn it around somewhat when Wisniewski and Carter get back.
MTL though? ouch. Some people will be asking for some answers pretty darn soon.
CGY is 2-4-1. ha!
and I wouldn't be surprise to see another trade - perhaps an even bigger one than the Booth to Van.
ReplyDeleteCarter? nah..
I'll bet you MTL also makes a move...
RE: Columbus/Vancouver trade rumblings.
ReplyDeleteHow about something more outside the box, i.e. the Canucks keeping Schneider and dealing Luongo?
Luongo for Nash or some variant thereof? Is it even realistic?
Hbomb,
ReplyDeleteLOLongo has a NTC.
Don't know if he's sick of the VAN fans enough to waive it to go to CLB.
Bet he'd waive it to go to Florida (Miami or TBY) to be closer to his family.
Woodguy: I'd bet the mortgage payment on that.
ReplyDeleteWhen I had the opportunity to sit at the same table as the guy at the Hockey Canada banquet at River Cree in June 2010, one of the things that was immediately apparent is that it is NOT easy for him to be away from his wife and kids in Florida (in fact, he was skipping the golf tournament the next day to go home and spend more time with them).
Dude is actually a very nice guy. Polite and borderline introverted. I have a hard time riding his ass even though he is a dirty C*ntnuck at the present time, because he is a genuinely nice person.
Good sense of humor too - I asked him if he was rubbing his gold medal in Ryan Kesler's face at all, and he said with zero hesitation, "ever single day".
Some sort of Luongo-for-Lecavalier swap seems just a matter of time, although that runs contrary to the unavoidable fact that Vinny L is going to end up a Hab sooner or later, or at least one would think. Maybe toss Gomez into the mix and make it a three-way-dance?
Who knows...
Luongo made his own bed when he refused several generous contract offers from Florida. Dude wanted to go to a contender, and he got his wish.
ReplyDeleteStill, the family situation has gotta be tough. All of these guys make sacrifices of some sort, and he's no different.
not sure if this was implied, but maybe Renney counted on the media to run with it just to keep RNH grounded.
ReplyDeleteHBomb, I know what you mean about Luongo. Yeah he signed a big deal and to each and everyone in here, it is practically impossible for us to understand what life is like for a pro hockey player, because none of us have ever been there.
ReplyDeleteHowever, when it comes to family and home, we can all relate.
This CLB-VAN trade possibility sounds interesting.