Looking at the comments after the game on varous sites, Oilers observers have identified Taylor Hall as someone who has to play better.
Comments ranging from Ribs saying "Hall trying to do it all again. He's going to need some reigning in if we don't want the sophomore slouch to kick in. He looks frustrated and it's just going to get worse" to Woodguy's "4 tried to do it all himself every shift. He draws 2-3 guys to him every time he has the puck, he needs to use that his advantage and use his team mates more."
I think Hall's playing style is always going to be prone to "do it all yourself" comparisons when things are going awry, just as Ales Hemsky is often in line for the same criticism. While true he struggled against some strong checking last night (Hall got a lot of attention whenever he was near the puck) it's also true that he was a big part of his line's goal in game one. I believe the RNH-Hall-Hemsky line has tremendous possibilities, but also believe that adding Lander to the line last night basically shut it down.
It'll be interesting to see if Gagner gets a push now that Hemsky is hurt (we'll find out how badly today), and there's always the fallback line of Horcoff-Hall-Eberle if things go sideways.
Taylor Hall will rebound from a subpar start (he certainly did last year), but the length of time between his current struggles and when we see the swagger is probably directly connected to coach Renney finding a line with chemistry. But he's always going to want the puck, I don't think we should look for him to be a different player based on a couple of early season games.

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ReplyDeletePersonally, I didn't like Hall's move in the shootout. He had the game on his stick against a goalie with a poor shootout record. I say keep it simple and make the goalie make the save.
ReplyDeleteYeah here's hoping Hemsky is only dinged. He is still our best game changer.
ReplyDeleteAs for lines, the play dies with Horc and Belanger, so I hope they shuffle, especially at home where Renney can hide some people.
Hall-Horcoff-Eberle
Smyth-RNH-hemsky
MPS-Lander-Omark
Petrell-Belanger-Jones
The top 2 lines have some vets to help the kids, and Smyth can take faceoffs for the Nuge in our own zone if needed. And Horc played with the the wunder twins so let him ride shotgun and be the responsible one for those 2. Hall and eberle had amazing chemistry last year so let them run.And unleash the swedes already. Would love to see the swedes versus the Canucks.
I think there's a lot of upset about that too, Steve K. Hall made his move, the goalie matched him.
ReplyDeleteI actually liked the shootout choices and suspect they'd do well in that rotation often.
DBO: That's the other thing. Hall had a veteran presence at C last year and RNH--despite being gifted--doesn't have the experience.
ReplyDeletePerhaps a line shuffle is in order, as you suggest.
With RNH struggling in faceoffs and Belanger hurt why does Renney not have Belanger take faceoff and make quick change like Van does with Manny .
ReplyDeleteThe comment of Belanger saying RNH just has to ask for help puzzles me.Shouldnt the coachs be directing this or is the team self coached
Why does Renney not have Belanger take faceoffs for RNH and make quick change.Canucks do this all the time with Manny.
ReplyDeleteBelanger says that RNH just has to ask for help.Where are the coaches on this or is team self coached
Ken: Well, I don't know. However, it might be something they look at now that he's struggled in a couple of games.
ReplyDeleteThe line was fine until Hemmer went down. Hemmer is key to this team and line, without him, theres nothing there but a couple kids running around like chickens without heads...
ReplyDeleteLT - well now Hall has been in the league for a year ... his best before date has passed.
ReplyDeleteTo make some fans happy I think they need to trade the entire lineup at the draft for picks every year and then ice those picks as the club. Repeat annually so none of these guys hit 20 which is when they become terrible hockey players. ;)
Last night was 83 in a nutshell. He is the straw that stirs the drink and he is always hurt. All the good and all the bad right there. If he plays the game my guess is no complaints about Hall. And once he went down I think Hall tried to put the team on his shoulders.
He'll be fine. I'd rather that than him shrinking from it.
Short bench was the problem. Especially when it's Hemsky out.
ReplyDeleteAt least we tied.
flualin: new illness to add to another season filled with injuries.
I think its a good thing that when things aren't going well Hall wants to take the team on his shoulders and go.
ReplyDeleteI just think he needs the maturity/experience to realize he can't beat NHL players 1 on 3 often and to use his ability to draw defenders to the team's advantage.
Maybe he doesn't trust his line mates?
It was like watching Hemsky play with JFJ. If a puck ever went JFJ's way it was purely by accident.
I think its a maturity/experience thing.
You want him to take the team on his shoulders, but you also want him to make more high percentage plays when he does have the puck.
He's 19. He'll get there.
I'm not upset with Hall's move...but I honestly don't understand why during his shootout attempts he doesn't tend to go forehand. He can get the puck high quickly and shoots hard, so most of his moves when he has complete choice over what to do should favor that. Take your strongest shot more often than not when given the option.
ReplyDeleteAs for his play, he needs to concentrate some more on his offensive positioning and getting open. He chases too much. Not saying he's playing badly, but he isn't creating dangerous chances at the rate he could be.
He's a guy who has spent his whole life having good things happen with the puck on his stick. That's probably how he'll make hay at the NHL level too. No, it didn't work last night and yes, he will need to make smart decisions about when to use his line mates. These things will happen and we will rejoice.
ReplyDeleteSeriously though, how big of a kick to the nuts was Hemsky's injury? He had the puck on a string all night and then is out for the game (and who knows how long) after a play no one seems to be able to find. Frustrating.
How is Nugent-Hopkins going to improve in the face-off circle if you don't let him take faceoffs? Talk about super-short-sighted thinking.
ReplyDeleteDoes it matter who Hemsky plays with if his favorite strategy is (stupidly) doing laps in the offensive zone? Ryan Smyth can be as effective standing by the net watching Hemsky circle as Hall can. There is one too many guys who need to handle the puck lots on the NH3 line.
Hall should NOT be playing with Hemsky, except on the power play.
Eberle, depending on the centre, should not be playing with Smyth.
//He had the puck on a string all night.//
ReplyDeleteWhen you are on a line with two highly skilled players like Hall and Nugent-Hopkins, this is a bad thing, NOT a good thing.
Hockey is a passing game primarily, and should be a puck-on-a-string game only occasionally.
Let's put a little blame on the coaching staff. They had a whole week to practice different line combos. Not planning for Hemsky possibley getting hurt is not doing your job properly.
ReplyDeleteThe one pp they had this is the line they used out there. Jones,Smyth, Horcoff and MPS and Barker? I'm sure this is one of their lines they MUST have been using during that WHOLE week they had to practice the PP. That's a line that never played together ever before last night. STUPID.
That's BS coaching. Why not play Eberle with Hall sure worked last year. Refusing to do it this year is stupid.
Also Belanger and Petrell playing a shift on 4 on 4 is completely coach not to lose, when we could and should be playing some skilled guys to win this team is full of skill use it when there's an opertunity.
Nice work coaches.
On the bright side, I am happy that we are all criticizing offensive players instead of the usual suspects of defence and goaltending. The offence will improve this season - if Dubnyk and Khabibulin keep performing this well (that's a BIG "if"), this team will win some games.
ReplyDeleteI think 4-93-83 looked dangerous and maintained offensive possession on most of their shifts. I get your argument stylistically but if sending those three guys over the boards keeps the puck in the offensive end of the ice and creates chances for your team you have to keep sending them out there IMO.
ReplyDeleteI just think he needs the maturity/experience to realize he can't beat NHL players 1 on 3 often and to use his ability to draw defenders to the team's advantage.
ReplyDeleteI think its a maturity/experience thing.
He's 19. He'll get there.
I completely agree with all of this. It's nice that he is trying so hard to drive the team bus himself but he has to know that it just doesn't work like that in this league. Learn to use your teammates. Learn to let your teammates use you.
I don't mean to be overcritical of Hall's game. I realise he is still very green and that there will be bumps in the road. I'm just hoping that the learning process can be a quick one because it needs to be.
I was at the game last night, and after Hemsky went down things just looked "off". The Oilers were scrambling to break out most times, and Hall's "individual efforts" were more about broken plays than him trying to ignore teammates. Nothing was clicking, but I give credit for him at least trying to create, results notwithstanding.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteUh, let's not do this. Do Oilers fans have no memory of running Jason Arnott out of town just because he didn't develop fast enough for their liking?
ReplyDeleteDid we miss having a 6-5 centre with offensive skill and faceoff aptitude for the subsequent decade? At all?
Relax, Taylor Hall is 19 and looks like a gem. Even if he isn't, it will all be fine. Certainly better than if we start booing him a year from now for not turning into Mark Messier faster than Mark Messier turned into Mark Messier.
Oh, and Sam Gagner is only 22.
I just think he needs the maturity/experience to realize he can't beat NHL players 1 on 3 often and to use his ability to draw defenders to the team's advantage.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Penner was a master of this. His big body with the puck drew all kinds of attention, and he would deliver the pass to the wide open man. Penner was also slower though, so he arrived in the offensive zone along with everyone else. Hall gets there so fast he's always by himself. He needs to pull up, buy a second or so, and hit the wide open trailer.
The problem with forcing it is that your linemates get frustrated. After some hard work in the D zone to get possession of the puck and move it up the ice, it gets annoying to see the puck turned over before you even hit the redline. After three rounds of that your shift is over and you find yourself on the bench bagged and wondering why you didn't even see the O-zone. Eventually the linemates stop skating as hard and just wait for the forced turnover and return to defense. So if Hall is frustrated, everyone is frustrated.
hall isn't using the middle of the ice.
ReplyDeletedefense and center key on him, keeping him next to the boards, where they hit him, or he skates to the corner. his game from our blueline to the other blueline reminded me of jason chimera before he learned to chip and chase.
maybe in junior he could whip by guys and take it hard to the net...not gonna work against good defensive units like pitts and minny.
i really do wonder if there's some merit in moving him to center where he'll get the puck in a less predictable situation for other defenses.
When he takes it from blue to blue, the other team has plenty of time to react and ready themselves for him. No matter how fast he may be going. Something as simple as a breakout pass into the neutral zone can help with this.
ReplyDeleteNugent-Hopkins took 8 faceoffs last night, and 15 the game prior. Are those really more critical to him developing his faceoff skills than taking one to two hundred after practice with a guy like Horcoff/Bellanger?
ReplyDeleteSeems strange to title a thread 'About Last Night' and not feature a screenshot from that cinematic masterpiece ;)
ReplyDeleteI would think finding chemistry is a common challenge in the league at the moment. Some unexpected teams seem to have found a semblance of it quickly (Flyers, Leafs). Some unexpected teams are still struggling (Vancouver, Boston, NYR). Would imagine we'll see a lot of variations on this theme over the first 20 games. On the basis of last night's game, it appears the Oil are still struggling to get the bunsen burner lit.
Looking ahead:
Would the Oil ever consider consistently alternating Khabi and Dubnyk so they each play 40 games? Realize that approach flouts conventional wisdom but it would be interesting to see if a team can facilitate a true 2 headed goalie monster. Obviously, NK's SV % would need to remain suitably high to merit that approach.
RNH sucks on the dot thus far. Would think that's fairly normal for a slight player? For me, the decision at Game 9 remains a key litmus test for this org. Ted consistently shows flashes of potential. Should that be sufficient to keep him up? I'm still in the camp that would prefer to see him having a Brayden Schenn like WJC. Hopefully he has a breakout game to remove all doubt and punch his ticket.
Early days but Sutton and Barker do look like modest upgrades over Vandermeer and Foster. This team looks tougher in its own zone.
Encouraging to see that all those arguing vociferously that the Oil would be morons to do anything other than sign Hemsky longterm, finally realizing this player is made of glass. Keeping this player healthy enough for a pump and dump represents the biggest challenge for the training staff this year.
Tom Renney has a rep as a system guy. Do we see a discernable 'system' watching the Oilings play?
The Oilers of yore found chemistry in pairs (Gretzky/Kurri, Messier/Anderson, Coffey/Huddy). I think Renney should start there with the uppermost question being, who works best with Hall? Thus far, the evidence seems to point to Eberle.
Once again a bunch of guys are hurting and/or are trying to find their stride and so the story goes.
ReplyDeleteLast night it was mentioned that 4's still trying to find his gears after having been off the ice for a long time and we know that 20's hurting and that 83 will always be a gametime decision for the rest of his career.
And of course 6 is no better.
So, this is already a big issue.
One thing that is noticeable already though is how much of a difference it makes to have two guys over the 50% mark on the dot. 10's off to a great start in this regard and 20's keeping up even though his back's on the fritz and last night we only allowed four 4on5 chances on the PK.
As for 93, the only thing I'm worried about with him is the faceoff taking because he's out of the box good when it comes to his own end. He cares enough to hound the puckcarrier and already we can see how effective he is in this regard. He's also a great passer and I'm already on the kid's side. I mean, yes, he cannot be allowd to take D zone draws if he keeps getting ripped and he can work on it in practice. Other than that all he has to do is get a little bigger and stronger.
Smyth, Nugent-Hopkins, Hemsky should be equally effective to Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Hemsky, with the added benefit that one could tell Nugent-Hopkins to be aggressive on the faceoff, because if he got thrown out, Smyth could take it.
ReplyDeleteHall, Gagner, Eberle Pretty self-explanatory.
Paajarvi, Horcoff, whomever. I like Paajarvi and Horcoff togetther. The one thing linewise that Renney has gotten right this year.
btw, did Tom Gilbert remind anyone else of Denis Potvin on the Cullen goal last night? Felix Potvin maybe?
ReplyDeleteSmyth could take some draws for RNH especially in the dzone or in close games.
ReplyDeleteGodot: Puck on a string is just fine if it goes along with probing for weakness. No so good when you turn the offensive zone into your personal cheese maze.
ReplyDeleteThat's why I suck at chess. I like to develop my pieces to positions of strength with no sharp plan of action. If my opponent plays an attacking style I'm poised if he goofs, poached if he doesn't.
Lee: I just don't get the pump and dump mojo.
What actually happens on the GM hot line.
Ernie: Hey, interested in my nice little coke machine? It slices, it dices ...
Bert: Oh, you're trying to unload that sack of shit. Well, you're right, we do have a hole there. What do you want?
Ernie: Nice juicy 2nd rounder?
Bert: Shiite! My fans would lynch me. Average fan thinks a 2nd rounder entitles you to trade up for God.
Ernie: Tell me about it.
Bert: Say, if you throw the guy on your 1st unit PP for a month, and pad his stats to the hilt, I might be able to slide it past the lynch mob, they're as dumb as bricks, you know.
Ernie: Yeah, mine too. Say hi to the wife. We'll be in touch.
Nugent-Hopkins took 8 faceoffs last night, and 15 the game prior. Are those really more critical to him developing his faceoff skills than taking one to two hundred after practice with a guy like Horcoff/Bellanger?
ReplyDeleteThe practice FO's are important but so are the real ones. Most good face off men will tell you that they study the tendancies of other C's and the linesmen pretty carefully.
I don't see the problem. Is the concern that if RNH or Hall don't do well the Oilers are not going to win the Cup? The focus should be on how they will be playing in two seasons. Development does not follow a straight line.
I actually have been pleasantly surprised how well the Oilers have done against two traptastic defensive teams.
DW, why does Bert have a wife in that conversation? I thought Bert and Ernie were 'together' in a conjugal sense.
ReplyDeleteYou're right, pump and dump relies on other clubs not doing their due diligence on pro scouting OR it relies on teams making harsh decisions because of UFA and salary cap pressures. The latter scenario is the one that hopefully enables us to get back a Top 4 D man for Hemsky. There was a time he was perceived as a 'value contract' Hopefully the org can fabricate that perception again.
As an Oiler fan, it seems every years starts with IF Ales Hemsky...etc. It's getting more than a little tiresome.
Agree with Ducey:
ReplyDeleteYou also have to account that about only 10% of NHL faceoffs are done correctly.
Most good faceoff guy cheat heavily.
Godot's irrational hatred of Hemsky ranks up there with L.T's irrational hatred of Smid.
ReplyDeleteSomeone at the C&B stated it best "Smid looks like a good defenseman wheb he's doesn't have the puck on his stick"
The longed for younger version of Staois may have arrived.
His stick has gotten a lot better by my eye this year.
I think I'd like 5-77 as the 2nd pair.
Lee,
How good should Gilbert look on a 3-1 when the other 4 guys are 80 feet from the play?
The guys has played over 26min a night and has done exceptionally well.
WG: I think Smid's a phenomenon of frustration like PF.
ReplyDeleteHe's not a bad passer/stickhandler, so everyone assumes he can actually produce some offense, but he's really barebones in the awareness department.
Hence, why expectations are always so high, and it feels like a deception, even tough he's still a useful player.
Sometime people will grade a player more lowly because he's sub par to projection, then a guy who achieved projection, even if he's still better as an underachiever.
Let me clarify my Smid remarks, they don't read well.
ReplyDeleteI think Smid is turning into a fine Dman, just don't ask him to make a good first pass.
Kinda like Steve "off the glass and out" Staios, who was a fine Dman in his prime.
Except it should be Ladislav "pass it to Gilbert" Smid
WG, Gilbert's job on that play is to 1) take away the cross crease pass & 2) look for an opportune moment to pressure Cullen to make the pass or shoot before he wants to. He did well on the first part of the equation, but rather than moving towards Cullen when he sees Eberle closing on the trailer, he moves towards the middle focusing solely on taking away the pass. You often seen good D breaking up that play with an aggressive dive at the right moment. Passive D give up the quality shot.
ReplyDeleteFully acknowledge the %s on that play are heavily weighted in the O's favour, but honestly, did Gilbert do anything to distinguish himself on the play in your opinion?
I think it's very interesting to look at that play frame-by-frame because it hearkens back to my earlier question re: what system does Renney have this team playing?
It appears the mantra is 'support the puck' as evidenced by the fact that you find 4 Oilers along the wall shortly before the puck releases! Equally concerning, Eberle who is deservedly lauded for his on ice awareness is VERY slow to react to the play here. I sincerely hope Renney used this play in the next practise as a tutorial to tutor his forwards on proper neutral zone positioning. Absolutely brutal team play on that goal that placed Gilbert in an admittedly tough spot. Unfortunately, neither Khabi or Gilbert rose to the occasion to bail out the rest of the boys.
The major concern for this team, outside of defence, is what to do with Hemsky. One has to wonder just how long crossing fingers and looking skyward is going to be the norm. Him going down last night can be looked at two ways. A blessing in that you haven't just re-upped the guy at $6M per, or a kick in the sack if he was on a "show and trade for value" trial.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what happens in both cases if he has another 30- 45 game year? Fish or cut bait time in Oilerland. Funny how a feeling of decent depth on RW all of a sudden loses it's focus. We now appear able to pencil in only one decent version.
beefies: girls chosen for the last dance before closing time
Little known fact. The characters Bert and Ernie are based on two characters from a 1930s German play about two men living together despite the danger of doing so under the Nazi regime.
ReplyDeleteAlbert und Ernst was the name of the play. For obvious reasons the production was shut down quickly.
There's an obscure bit of history for you.
---------
Cannot agree with you on the 3 on 1 Lee, Gilbert was damned either way. He took away two men out of the three on one and left Khabi to the shooter. If he had gone to the shooter it was a two on none.
His four (!) teammates on the other hand. Poor.
It's two games. Oilers looking much, much better defensively. The additions aren't looking too, too bad. Signs of progress and depth.
ReplyDeleteTen games is better, 20 games you start making decisions.
WG, Gilbert's job on that play is to 1) take away the cross crease pass & 2) look for an opportune moment to pressure Cullen to make the pass or shoot before he wants to. He did well on the first part of the equation, but rather than moving towards Cullen when he sees Eberle closing on the trailer, he moves towards the middle focusing solely on taking away the pass. You often seen good D breaking up that play with an aggressive dive at the right moment. Passive D give up the quality shot.
ReplyDeleteSorry Lee, but the only way Gilbert breaks up that play is if some pass happy forward goes for the pass. Gilbert's job is to take away the pass. He did. After that you just have to hope the guy hits the goaler.
I don't see how he is supposed to cover pass, not screen Bulin, and block a laser to the top shelf all at the same time.
Yup. Take away the pass is what every goalie has ever told me. Khabi should have challenged the shooter more and cut off that angle once he saw Gilbert doing his job.
ReplyDeleteSome guys are good at sliding on the ice to try to take away the pass as well as shooting room but I think it was too late for Gilbert to try that and it likely wouldn't have helped anyway.
Bert and Ernie are just friends and not partners in any sense of the word.
ReplyDeletehttp://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/08/bert-and-ernie-just-friends-not-gay-will-not-get-married.html
That is a really interesting piece of trivia from BDHS though.
-----
I agree with the comments being made about Smid coming into his own this preseason and young regular season. He's looked slightly better each year, and really is hitting his stride now it seems.
-----
I really enjoyed the Gilbert and Sutton pairing last night. Sutton seems like a veteran defender who knows how to play within his abilities. I saw a ton of him deferring the puck to Gilbert in the third period.
Obviously it's really early with respect to points 2 and 3, but I am certainly looking forward to seeing more of Smid and Gilbert/Sutton so far.
Sorry Ducey, I'm going to respectfully disagree on this. Traditional hockey instruction advocated taking the pass away as the only course of action. Modern coaching advocates taking the pass away until the pass becomes untenable and then committing to the shooter. I think there's areas of grey in terms of the interpretation here because you can view the play as either a 2-on-1 or a 3-on-1 depending on how you view Eberle's close on the trailer.
ReplyDeleteAgain, fully acknowledge the odds are against Gilbert on this play.
Shame for the team to lose a point on such an undisciplined play.
Black Dog
ReplyDeleteNot that it matters, but i saw an interview with Jim Henson once where he named Ernie and Bert after George Bailey's good friends the cop and the taxi driver in "Its a wonderful life" which was Henson's favorite movie.
Fits in nicely with the Pottersville blog last week.
Maybe Capra took it from the nazi story though??
Here's a good example of what I'm taking about. Notice how the D man takes away the pass until the winger HAS to make a decision and then commits to that forward to hopefully force an error on the pass across to help Thomas' cause.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qnm0ZgEN7nQ
I think we could save some people some time with an automated comment generator. It could go something like this.
ReplyDelete_______ is terrible and is the cause of all of the teams problems (Please check all that apply).
[]Tambellini
[]Lowe
[]Katz
[]Hemsky
[]Horcoff
[]Gagner
[]Gilbert
[]Hall
[]Smid
[]MacTavish
[]Chris Pronger's Wife
[]Joey Moss
If only the team would _______ then everything would be great (please check off all that apply).
[]Trade players mentioned above for Doughty, Perry, Chara and Ovechkin.
[]Give Omark the opportunity to shine
[]Move Jones to the Top line
[]Shoot on the PP
[]Get Robbie Schemp back from Modo and let him shine
[]Tell Katz to screw off and to go home to Vancouver
[Click Here to Submit Comment]
Gagner and Eager at practice in no-contact jerseys, no Hemsky on the ice.
ReplyDeleteDammit!
Lee,
I can't read Gilbert's mind, but unlike a 2 on 1 where hitting the ice to take away the pass leaves the shooter for the goalie, hitting the ice on a 3 on 1 can result in a 2 on 0 which is worse than a 3 on one.
I think Gilbert tried hard to take the passing away without hitting the deck. I agree it looked awkward though.
Btw, I think that replay illustrates that Darren Pang is a bit of mental midget as well. Ference lunges at Moen at the exact time he starts to execute the pass. Would Pang prefer he wait until the pass is completed?
ReplyDeleteOf course, these plays look much better when you've got a Vezina winner btw the pipes!
Bookie,
ReplyDeleteRyan Jones is not on your choice of problems with the team.
Your form is invalid.
Danny:
ReplyDeleteI think I thought it was going to be different than it--
Debbie:
--than what it was really like? Me, too. Maybe we were just - too naive.
Danny:
Yeah, maybe. Maybe we knew too much.
Yeah. Maybe we did.
WG, my 'saw him good' assessment of Gilbert is he can be an effective defenseman when he's proactively engaging in the play. When he's overly reactive is when he gets into trouble with last year's slump being a good example of same.
ReplyDeleteFor the record, I'm in agreement we're better off with him than without him at this point. Just looking forward to a day when better players push him down the depth chart to a more suitable role.
[]Ryan Jones
ReplyDeleteWhat, no 'all of the above' option? ; )
ReplyDeleteRyan Jones is not on your choice of problems with the team.
ReplyDeleteYour form is invalid.
And no complaint box for Laforge, or Renney, or the loss of Huddy/ Penner/ Chorney, the low face off percentage, the Pisscutters, the Flames, Sportsnet, Stauffer, Bettman, Wallstreet??
You have a long ways to go to understand this fan base Bookie
Woodguy:
ReplyDelete//Godot's irrational hatred of Hemsky ranks up there with L.T's irrational hatred of Smid. //
Yeah...I hate him so much I recommend playing him with Nugent-Hopkins and Smyth.
My early hypothesis is that I think Nugent-Hopkins will be able play with pretty much anyone.
Smyth is an ideal LW for Hemsky. He plays where Hemsky doesn't, and he doesn't require puck touches to play well offensively.
what's the latest?
ReplyDeletehow many months is 83 gonna miss?
Is 6 gonna make it back in time for the Olys in Sochi?
You have a long ways to go to understand this fan base Bookie
ReplyDeleteCan some web-guru make some kind of magic 8-ball app for the Oilers with answers like Robbie Schremp, Horcoff, Katz' hair, etc.
Per Tweets
ReplyDeleteHemsky going in for precautionary MRI. Might play Saturday.
Gagner and Eager at practice in no-contact jerseys, no Hemsky on the ice.
ReplyDeletesi can expect this for saturadys game.
Hall-Horcoff-Eberle
Smyth-RNH-Jones
MPS-Lander-omark
Petrell-Belanger-Hordichuk
Godot,
ReplyDeleteL.T doesn't really hate Smid either.
Bookie,
I blame Laforge, shouldn't be an option, but a permanent salutation on the form.
Horcoff playing with MPS is like having tickets at Center Ice. Stationary while the play goes:
ReplyDeleteThere goes MPS going right and now here he goes, going left.
Used to be Gretzky and Kurri. Kurri goes into the defensive zone, picks up the puck, passes the puck to Gretzky who remained at center ice, takes the return pass at the blue line and goes in and scores.
Fan reaction;
Great Gretzky!
Eye-watering as it is, we may have to gas the Ammonia Line.
ReplyDeleteI just don't see Hall and Hemsky sharing the puck enough. Maybe Hemsky would respond to higher calibre linemates by doing more of the give-and-go stuff he resolutely refuses to engage in with lesser mates (which is to say, almost everybody else on the team), but both his game and Hall's rely on possession of the puck through the neutral zone. On different lines they can both do their thing. Together on the powerplay is fine.
As for pairs, I really like the possibilities of RNH with Hall. In some ways their skill sets are almost opposite, but could complement each other very well indeed.
and to use his ability to draw defenders to the team's advantage.
This for example is something RNH does exceedingly well, drawing defenders and then slipping the puck through to an open teammate. Imagine that teammate being Taylor Hall.
Smyth is an ideal LW for Hemsky. He plays where Hemsky doesn't, and he doesn't require puck touches to play well offensively.
Agree with this as well. Penner was effective LW for Hemsky for same reasons.
Oilersfan - Oh I wouldn't trust that bearded hippy Henson one bit.
ReplyDeleteInterestingly enough the actors who played Albert and Ernst in the original run of the play were brothers Hans and Franz Biergarten. While the Nazis shut down the theatre the brothers 'escaped' with enlistment in the Artillery. They served in Russia and were in Stalingrad where it appears they performed the play during lulls in the fighting in order to lighten the mood for their doomed brothers in arms.
History loses track of the brothers after Stalingrad although years later a play Счастливые приключения Альберт и Эрнест (loose translation - the happy adventures of albert and ernest) was performed in Leningrad by "two actors whose Russian was quite poorly spoken with a heavy Germanic accent".
My feeling is that this is probably our lost heroes.
So yeah Henson? Damned liar.
Hey....Bruce hates Hemsky too! -).
ReplyDeleteAs for 93, the only thing I'm worried about with him is the faceoff taking because he's out of the box good when it comes to his own end. He cares enough to hound the puckcarrier and already we can see how effective he is in this regard. He's also a great passer and I'm already on the kid's side. I mean, yes, he cannot be allowd to take D zone draws if he keeps getting ripped and he can work on it in practice. Other than that all he has to do is get a little bigger and stronger.
ReplyDelete... and more experienced. The faceoffs will come, he's a quick learner but there's a case of strength and experience both working against him for the moment. It'll cost him some shifts, as it did last night when the Oilers spent the whole fucking third period in their own end.
Otherwise you are bang on, Dennis. You're seeing what I've been watching since last November. Every time I came away saying "RNH doesn't cheat for offence". His tenacity in the D-zone is something to behold, last night he stayed with his man (Koivu usually) step for step in a few one-on-one battles, and came away from several of them with the puck. He's so good on his edges he's almost impossible to shake.
And as I may have mentioned a time or two over the summer, he was the star of a team that led its league in GAA by 0.46 per game. Both his attitude towards defensive play and his play itself contributed towards that. Not the only reason, obviously (#1 would be Darcy Kuemper) but there are lots of hotshots out there who err on the side of offence. Some guys *coughCoglianocough* never do get the defensive game, but the new guy is way ahead of that curve too.
I'd give this a go once/if they're all healthy.
ReplyDeleteHall/Horc/Ebs
Let the kids build their chops against top opposition with a defensively responsible center. Helps inflate Horc's stats as well for a potential pump/dump
Smyth/RNH/Omark
Park Smytty in front of the net and let the two skilled players wheel and deal in the O-zone. Takes advantage of RNH's solid shot as well.
MPS/Gagner/Hemsky
Inflate Gagner and Hemsky's stats on a true soft minutes line. Ask MPS to cheat to the d-zone. Evolves MPS in the direction of a strong two way winger. His time will come on the offensive end.
In other words, we're not winning anything of significance this year, so let's setup Horc, Hemsky and Gagner to succeed so we can eventually trade their asses to fill holes in other areas!
Oh yeah, 4th line for shits n giggles...
Eager/Lander/Jones
Unfortunate that the Oilers always perform better on paper than they do on the ice. lol
So Lee I just want to make sure I understand this. You're going to use Horcoff with the kids and then have Hemsky and Gagner play the buttery soft so that all three have great seasons and then we are going to trade them.
ReplyDeleteI understand we need to shore up the D and its probably going to come from up front but why are we going to go from nine good forwards (if your plan works) to six, two of whom (Smyth and Belanger) are on the wrong end of thirty.
Just wondering. I'd think if we find a mix where we have three lines that click we'd want to keep those who keep them clicking. ;)
BD, I'm not saying we trade all of them for D men. One of them might fetch an excellent two forward that doesn't duplicate a skillset or come with a bad contract. To be fair, I completely forgot about Belanger so obviously my evil genius has its limitations!
ReplyDeleteOn a side note, I'm getting the impression from your posts today that you're considering a broadway run of 'Inglourious Bastards' with the cast played by the muppets? Not a bad idea. Count me in as one of the old critics in the balcony ;)
I think we can forget about Hall/Horcoff/Eberle.
ReplyDeleteIt looks like Renney wants to use Horcoff for own zone draws heavily and disproportionately. So I think we see Horcoff with either Smyth or with Paajarvi starting in the defensive end most of the the time.
Nugent-Hopkins, Gagner, and Belanger means that Horcoff can be used exclusively for the "dirty" work.
Btw, any news on the arena front? Any truth to the rumour that Mandel handed out tubes of KY to council today and told them to get ready for a royal reaming?
ReplyDeleteJust wondering. I'd think if we find a mix where we have three lines that click we'd want to keep those who keep them clicking. ;)
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that on one of the lines the "clicking" is the sound coming from the RW's shoulders.
One of the best articles I've read by Bobby Mac... this is back in The Hockey News days good.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=378076
He asks the question: If head shots are suspension worthy during play, why are they not suspension worthy during fights? Is there not a disconnect to the logic? I suppose one response would be the "victim" directly accepted the risk in a fight, but there are still moral inconsistencies.
I get the media and perhaps society as a whole wanting to latch onto banning fighting in the game as a legitimate and topical issue at the moment. However, I think it remains a moot point as long as the majority of the players remain in favor of it. Of potential interest to Oil fans, Duthie put the question to Taylor Hall, Spezza and Gionta on his 'quiz' and they were unanimous that fighting needed to stay in the game. Gionta's comment in particular was interesting basically indicating that he played in college where fighting is not allowed and the game is worse for the players as a result.
ReplyDeleteOn this topic, there's an absolutely spot on comment from Brooks Laich on the TSN homepage at the moment.
Any truth to the rumour that Mandel handed out tubes of KY to council today and told them to get ready for a royal reaming?
ReplyDeleteLets hope so
@Lee - the day brawling and fisticuffs is outlawed from hockey = the day it becomes a better sport. Discuss.
ReplyDeleteModern coaching advocates taking the pass away until the pass becomes untenable and then committing to the shooter.
ReplyDeleteYeah but that idea on a 3 on 1 is untenable either. Any three forwards worth their salt would know that F1 carries the puck to create space and time for F2 and F3. F2 should be going hard to the net, and f3 should read and react to f1 and F2's movements, which on a net drive, would be to go high in the slot as a trailer. This creates variable options for F1 (Shoot, pass to F3, or possibly pass to F2).
The reality is the forwards had too many options and Gilbert had one that he could execute with low risk.
Lee said...
ReplyDeletebtw, did Tom Gilbert remind anyone else of Denis Potvin on the Cullen goal last night? Felix Potvin maybe?
Gilbert played that 3 on 1 exactly how you are supposed to at the NHL level: he took away the pass and maintained control over the center of the ice. Cullen made a nice shot and the puck ended up in the back of the net. Placing the blame on Gilbert for the sequence of events that led to that goal is utterly ridiculous; aka, par for the course when it comes to your analysis of 77's game.
Tom Gilbert should leave town. Honestly. Did anyone notice the other defenseman on the play and where he was?
ReplyDeleteHint: answers rhymes with mutton and outside the defensive zone.
Here's a good example of what I'm taking about. Notice how the D man takes away the pass until the winger HAS to make a decision and then commits to that forward to hopefully force an error on the pass across to help Thomas' cause.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qnm0ZgEN7nQ
Do you seriously think that the scoring chance given up to Cullen on that 3 on 1 was better than the one Ference gave Gionta on that 2 on 1?
If you answer yes, you don't want enough hockey. Cross crease passes like that lead to goals on odd man rushes far more often than when the defender takes away the pass and forces the shot. That's why from pee wee up the defender is taught to leave the shooter to the goaltender, while taking away the cross crease option.
I'm a huge Gilbert detractor, but the way that bad giveaway was played was by the book.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure we'd have loved to see him contest the puck further back, but the play to cover the pass and give your goalie the opportunity to focus on one guy is what they teach in pee-wee.
I wish they had ice-time by period, as I'm sure that one shot on goal in the third was due to Renney giving much more ice time to the defensive-responsible veterans than any shortcoming by the kids.
Game One: Hall makes PASS, intended for Hemsky, that winds up on RNH's stick. RNH ties game. Win in shoot-out. Fans happy.
ReplyDeleteGame Two: 4-93-83 line looks good. 83 gets injured EARLY. 4 recognizes a very good player is out. Tries to do more. Tie game thanks to SMYTTY. Lose in shoot-out. Fans mad.
In summation: I wanted that ridiculous Minny losing streak to end too.
2 games. 3 outta 4 points.
From Gene Principe:
ReplyDeleteHall-RNH-Eberle
Smyth-Horcoff-Jones
Paajarvi-Belanger-Omark
Petrell-Lander-Hordichuk
Whitney-Petry
Smid-Gilbert
Sutton-Potter..no Hemsky
My initial reaction:
1. It will be 'great' to see Whitney play for part of the 1st period till one of his ankles explodes and he's waiting for Hemsky to get out of the MRI machine tomorrow night.
2. Jones on the 2nd line is lol. WG and I share the same thoughts here, I'm sure.
3. When you take Hemsky out of the forward roster, all of sudden, the forward lineup looks like a combo of over the hill vets and wet behind the ears kids.. :( Or maybe just the sight of Jones on the 2nd line makes me cringe.
Katz dropped non compete. Katz will pay $5.5 mil per year instead of $100 mil up front. City will buy land by Oct 31.
ReplyDeleteI think Whitney and Petry is the correct move and that Smid and Gilbert is correct too.
ReplyDeleteSo ... do Peckham and Barker sit then?
Funny that we expected a bunch of 6-5 losses (actually I expected 6-3 losses) and we've gotten a couple of 2-1 games.
I wonder if they'll sit Peckham. I've checked the TOI and he did play quite a bit against Koivu but he really doesn't look right this season.
ReplyDeleteSometimes that's an injury, sometimes its a step back.
Katz noted that Northlands should not be so afraid of a non-compete clause, the Oilers haven't competed for years and they are fine.
ReplyDeleteDo you seriously think that the scoring chance given up to Cullen on that 3 on 1 was better than the one Ference gave Gionta on that 2 on 1?
ReplyDeleteGiven that Cullen's chance resulted in a goal, what do you think the answer is?
If you answer yes, you don't want enough hockey.
I don't want hockey like that. I prefer the plays where the team doesn't look thoroughly inept.
Cross crease passes like that lead to goals on odd man rushes far more often than when the defender takes away the pass and forces the shot. That's why from pee wee up the defender is taught to leave the shooter to the goaltender, while taking away the cross crease option.
Do you have any data to support this claim? I think you'll find if you talk to some younger coaches, you'll find the strategy to defend odd man rushes is evolving. Think about it. Which play has more variables and thus a higher degree of difficulty? A) Taking an uncontested shot on the goalie OR B) Threading a pass by the d-man, accepting that pass, and then placing it in the right location to beat a goalie moving rapidly across the crease?
The second scenario has far more variables and thus a higher degree of difficulty and thus larger potential for failure if defended properly.
Everyone's seen the 2nd scenario where the pass is made at the last possible instant and the goalie is left with virtually nil time to cross the crease. THAT play is virtually indefensible. If however, the defenseman can force the pass earlier (ala Ference in that clip), forcing the pass greatly reduces the time and space the shooter has to properly aim and release their shot. Compare the time Gionta has to cradle and aim his shot vs. the time Cullen had. Give ANY player in the NHL outside JFJ the time Cullen had and that's an automatic goal.
Went out my way to emphasize the goal was a team breakdown and certainly not Gilbert's fault alone, so I don't consider the rest of your hysteria worthy of a response.
No Eager for Luongo. DAMMIT!
ReplyDeleteLee: So, are you saying you object to Gilbert's handling of the play as a team issue?
ReplyDeleteSmyth-Horcoff-Jones
ReplyDeleteOne of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?
Well yes Woodguy, one of those guys is not named Ryan. Clearly he is the one who doesn't fit.
ReplyDeleteWell yes Woodguy, one of those guys is not named Ryan. Clearly he is the one who doesn't fit.
ReplyDeleteNice!
One of the guys doesn't have a mullet.
ReplyDeleteTo reiterate for hopefully the final time 1) the goal was the result of poor play by virtually everyone on the ice in an Oiler uni 2) Gilbert was left holding the bag (not his fault) and 3) Gilbert (arguably) could have been more aggressive in his defense of the actual scoring chance. Obviously your mileage will vary.
ReplyDeleteFind it funny that conventional wisdom is typically challenged on this site unless there is unbiased data to support it UNLESS of course that conventional wisdom happens to suit the argument of someone like Kinger-at which point it becomes presented as virtually unassailable. That's the way it's been done since peewee...so it has to be right. Bulletproof logic there.
wunderbar, godot,
ReplyDeleteExcellent work!
named Ryan.
One of the guys doesn't have a mullet.
Its Edmonton, so having a mullet and being named Ryan is enough for many to assume you belong in the NHL.
Here's a crazy idea. Put Omark on the right side with Horc and Smitty. He is the closest replica of Hemsky available.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.edmonton.ca/city_government/documents/City_Manager_presentation_of_October_14.pdf
ReplyDeleteThat spells out the details of the new funding plan
Given that Cullen's chance resulted in a goal, what do you think the answer is?
ReplyDeleteFunny stuff, Lee.
Do you have any data to support this claim?
Read the thread. At least 3 other people made identical comments.
Or, you can use the GOOGLE:
"The general rule of thumb for defending a 2 on 1 rush is: the goaltender should take the shot and the defender should eliminate the pass across."
"The goal is to prevent, stop or disrupt a potential pass to the non-puck carrier."
"Allow the goalie to handle the puck carrier's approach and/or shot."
"Remember, while playing defense, your job is to stop the opposing players. It is your goalie's job to stop the puck."
"Stay in middle of attackers, delay play as much as possible, goalie take the shooter defender deny the pass."
Tough stuff.
Lee said:
ReplyDeletearguably [Gilbert] could have been more aggressive in his defense of the actual scoring chance.
Talk about watered down Lee. Is this is a new tact for you? Generally you stick to your guns even when your position is completely indefensible.
Bravo.
Katz gets a 30 year mortgage at about 3.6%, sweet deal for Katz.
ReplyDeleteHe also gets $2MM/yr from city for branding/advertising for 10 years.
Double sweet for him!
I thought that NO MONEY DOWN real estate development only happened on late night TV ads with funny Korean guys?
Katz has now leveraged his ownership of the Oilers into paying the city $3.5 million annually in return for virtually all arena revenue.
ReplyDeletePretty good ROI I would think.
Like to see Petrell with Horcoff and Smyth. I think their styles compliment one another well
ReplyDeletewhy does everyone say that hemsky and mark are alike?
ReplyDeleteTheir games are nothing alike! Every time I hear the comparison, I shake my head. Other than being from europe there's nothing similar.
He sky plays high speed and skates behind the net. Mark plays at half speed and starts the cycle from behind the net.
I think gags and omark have very similar games ... hem sky, not at all. Its like saying Havlat and alfie are interchangable, which just isn't true.
Auto correct. Sorry
ReplyDeleteAlbert und Ernst. Interesting. I don't see a lot of support for that. Artists tend to draw inspiration from a thick stew. It could well have been one of the triggers.
ReplyDeleteWord from The Street is that the characters are based on Felix and Oscar from The Odd Couple (Eric Jacobson who plays Bert).
The Street tries to sidestep matters by claiming that no genitals equates to no sexual orientation. OK, so we know they're not going to do much about it; what a relief.
That said, you have to wonder. Recent tweet by Bert: Ever notice how similar my hair is to Mr. T’s? The only difference is mine is a little more ‘mo’ a little less ‘hawk’
Good god am I ever out of the loop. Modern education: Cookie Monster walking around in a daze because of the RIM blackout.
I'm sure Oscar is up to his knees in discarded cell phones. Nirvana for grouch in a can: open Twitter account with two hours of battery life.
Suppose I could have used Radar or Zelmo Zale on the blower to Sparky at the next M*A*S*H unit trying to procure a box of sterile tongue depressors. Sparky it was. Amazed I shook that out of the old cobwebs.
When Sparky signs off to Radar with "say hi to the wife" I think he means Colonel Potter. What Ernie meant is harder to guess.
Hint: answers rhymes with mutton and outside the defensive zone.
ReplyDeleteI like to call that move the "Hejda".
That's the way it's been done since peewee...so it has to be right. Bulletproof logic there.
ReplyDeleteYeah but by trying to force the pass on your example of Ferrence forcing the pass, that is a 2 on 1.
A 3 on 1 adds more options for the puck carrier (F1) and thus the only option for the defender is to take away the cross crease pass (high success) as opposed to giving up the pass to F3, which gives the goalie less distance to travel for the shot as opposed to a cross crease pass to F2.
TED has a fresh clip about duper's delight: the smile that leaks into a pained pretense conveying the inner glee of pulling a fast one.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if those old queens Statler and Waldorf were up there in the balcony show after show chortling with duper's delight while Ernie and Bert took all the heat.
From BWoAK:
In one episode, Waldorf appeared alone at the beginning, explaining that Statler was sick, and that Waldorf's wife would substitute. Her name turned out to be "Astoria." She looked remarkably like Statler wearing a dress.
Ernie: Hey, Bert, do you ever slum around on the intertubes to suss out your fans?
Bert: Ewww.
Ernie: Not even with double safe-search?
Bert: [Mock shudder] It hardly helps. You know, one guy says something you agree with, the next guy goes off on a tangent about some looming threepeat in the Danish Football League. Really--nothing but distracted chumps with an abacus fetish.
Ernie: Yeah, who do they think runs this league, Selig or Bettman?
Bert: Precisely. Too many trees, not enough forest.
Ernie: (Imitating Alec Baldwin flipping through a fat money ball he just lifted at the airport) "A million Brazilian dollars."
Bert: "Absolutely worthless."
Ernie: Wonder what they think we do all day?
Bert: Ewww. Don't even go there ... that's why we're up here and they're down there.
Ernie: Nuff said.
Bert: Precisely.
Ernie: G'night Bud.
Bert: G'night Gary.
Eight shots last night for Hartski in a 3-2 OKC win.
ReplyDeleteA goal and five shots for Tuebert. Assist for Pitlick; nothing for hamilton
From DSF
ReplyDeleteKatz has now leveraged his ownership of the Oilers into paying the city $3.5 million annually in return for virtually all arena revenue.
Pretty good ROI I would think.
Pretty good counter-trey, I would say.
Step 1 - Create media buzz about demanding no-compete clause from Northlands plus the imposed deadline of Oct 31 or w/e.
Step 2 - Northlands fuels buzz with ridiculous demand for cue Dr. Evil ... $250 million
Step 3 - Batman and bettman meet Mandel
Step 4 - Big news about Batman dropping non-compete demand from Northlands while sliding in that his up front $100 commitment morphed into a $3.5 annual expensre x 50 year or w/e.
lol. Well played Batman.
I love Potter. Super hard shot allways hits the net.
ReplyDeleteOmark is starting to show up.
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