Earlier today we discussed the Oilers forwards and specifically the 10 or so who should be around through 2020 (or so). Mostly average in size, but quite skilled and young enough to have a nice run before their 30th birthday (Oilers are likely to lose at least some of these young men via free agency 2017+).
They have skill, they have speed and the potential for goals is obvious. One area the Oilers might have a weakness? The Tikkanen.
If you don't remember Tikkanen, allow me to fill you in via the newspapers of the time. In dealing for the Finn, Rangers GM Neil Smith did a splendid job in describing the acquisition:
Is that player on the roster or in the system? As an NHL rookie (age 20), Tikkanen scored 7-6-13 in 35 games and took 28PIMS (that number would increase quickly). At age 21, he began an impressive 5-season run that included point totals of 78, 74, 78, 63 and 69 points. The Oilers would win 3 Stanley's in those 5 seasons and Tikkanen was a big part of the hockey team during his time in Edmonton.
Back to the question: DO the Oilers have a dependable defensive player--with grit and an edge--who can contribute offensively?"
- Taylor Hall should be a better offensive player and does have an edge, but projected him as a dependable defensive player is a stretch. He's going to be driving the results more than preventing them (if everything goes according to Hoyle).
- Jordan Eberle has a complete skill set save for size and an abundance of grit. I'd bet on him being a captain one day and that he could supply quality two-way play, but he isn't going to play with a Tikkanen edge.
- Magnus Paajarvi has the physical tools to be a beast physically but doesn't appear to have that gear. I also wonder if he's going to be an offensive player of the same calibre of Hall and Eberle, and Tikkenan had very good offensive seasons.
- Teemu Hartikainen: I think he might be able to handle the physical side of the game (this isn't really fair, Tikkanen was the ultimate ass on the ice--we can't hope to see it twice in a lifetime) and be a pest. He also has offensive ability, so Hartikainen might be an option for the Tikkanen family (with fewer points).
- Curtis Hamilton: Too soon to tell if he's going to bring his offense with him to pro hockey, and he's a 2-way winger. I don't think he'll ever be reckless enough to resemble Tikkanen, who at time acted truly crazy.
- Tyler Pitlick: I think he might have the physical tools to be an agitator. Redline's draft report: Flashed the ability to power through defenders to get to net. High energy level every shift. Can gain separation in corners with sharp twists and can turn on a dime. Patient playmaker. Long-limbed with farmboy like strength. Aggressive and finishes checks.”
Trade for Alex Burrows.
ReplyDeleteBen Eager?
ReplyDeleteDSF: Eager isn't exactly a scorer. Right?
ReplyDeleteEager definitely has hands though.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C73RC733qhk
Tikkanen's 72 points per season through that five year run is ~52 points per season in today's NHL. (it's actually .95 p/g and .72 p/g)
ReplyDelete115 forwards have averaged -10% of .72 p/g or better over the last five seasons, including one Oiler - Hemsky.
Of those 115, very few replicate what Tikkanen brought. The list might include Kesler, Brown, Oshie, Morrow, Richards.
So unless they're trading for Oshie, I don't see a player in the org that comes close.
Maybe if Drew Czerwonka gets a lightning bolt cattle prod in the hands or something...
@LT.
ReplyDeletePretty tough to find potential 30 goal scorers who are a sandwich short of a boxed lunch.
Alex Burrows, Brad Marchand, Corey Perry would all seem like contemporary com parables but I can't see any of them being available.
Very valuable players.
IIRC, Tik gave one or two guys a short ride on the halfboard monorail. Not a man you wanted to go over. Man, I loved the Tik.
ReplyDeleteThe farmboy passage in Princess Bride print edition (third most sarcastic book ever written) is one of my all time favourites.
Clearly, something about the farmboy interested her. But what? [List of spectacular attributes due to dedication and hard work, dismissed as incidental.] And he was broad in the shoulders, but not all that much broader than the Count. [More favorable comparisons to royalty.] And he was muscular, but who wouldn't be muscular who slaved all day. [More attributes dismissed as ill gains from youth and work ethic.]
Buttercup sat up in bed. It must be his teeth. The farm boy did have good teeth, give credit where credit was due.
So that's the reason "farmboy" never catches on as a nickname in the NHL.
Actually, I should give credit where credit is due. Long before the movie, I came across the Princess Bride when Spider Robinson anthologized the cliff-side duel scene in The Best of All Possible Worlds from 1980.
ReplyDeleteIIRC (tack that onto any utterance by someone old enough to recall 1980), the book has an introduction which explains that Spider is this rare breed described as an enthusiast, otherwise known only to people who poured over the Whole Earth Catalog; the kind of person who will scour the earth for a rare vintage of Jamaican Blue Mountain.
I didn't know it then, but he was advocating microbrew as a lifestyle package, in an era where many of us found this hard to comprehend. I've never quite ascended to the strato-Spider-sphere, but I have stuck a thermometer into my pour-over so often I can tell you the temperature of my kettle by the sound it makes gathering steam to whistle.
This was the book that inspired Gzowski to travel with the team in 1980 before writing "The Game of Our Lives". Ha. Just kidding. But then, you never know.
Which makes me think, Gzowski's second hand cigarette smoke might have cost us our dynasty cup. If only we'd known more about the effects of second hand smoke. At two packs a day, and travelling with the team for a year, we had 15 Marios by the time his book wrapped. Bummer.
Probably my favorite hockey player ever. And I loved Bobby Orr and was utterly awestrucked by Wayne Gretzky.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'd have to say LT, your descriptions of Tikk are probably the best all-time:
this isn't really fair, Tikkanen was the ultimate ass on the ice--we can't hope to see it twice in a lifetime
No. No we can't, lol.
The most difficult player to play against that I have ever seen. Teams don't do it so much any more, but he's probably the best shadow I have ever seen. The first time I had ever seen the idea of a guy who could take you off the score sheet while scoring himself being glorified was in reference to Esa. And that concept has become the epitome of the modern hockey player, exemplifying the very qualities we try to measure and predict on these blogs. He was something else before you got to his personality.
Gretzky's OT winner slapshot against the Flames brought me out of my seat. Tikkanen's catapulted me airborne. He owned that game, as dominating a performance as any player has had in a big game.
Shit I wish we had another Tikkanut. I do think Ryan Smyth's game was influenced by watching Tikk play as a kid though. There's an echo there.
Marginally talented jack@ss who spews a language nobody else on the ice understands and rides far superior teammates to gaudy scoring totals?
ReplyDeleteYup. I vote Alex Burrows as the modern comparable to Tikanen.
Once again, I'll re-state that ST needs to attempt to trade Hemsky+ for Ryane Clowe.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't that be Clowe+ for Hemsky? No way would we do that deal otherwise.
ReplyDeleteRyane Clowe
ReplyDelete75GP 24G 38A 62P 100PIM $3,625,000
Height 6.02 -- Weight 225
WON all 12 fights he was involved in last year. That is the kind of player we need to protect the kids (He could actually be on the ice with them). He'd be a mixture of Tikk and McSorley.
After reading the article I would say the current player that resembles Tikkanen for me, would be Kesler of Vancouver, agree or disagree? Yes, I know the Oilers can't get him but just as a current player that would be seen as a good comparison?
ReplyDeleteHope it doesn't take a Doug Weight to get our Tikkanen.
ReplyDeleteWhat about Lander? He may not be as pestilent, but he is a gritty two way centre with defensive ability and skill. not sure if he is as much of a pest, but if he slots in as our 3rd line centre, hopefully he develops some of that nastiness.
ReplyDeleteHEY DANNY: Can you send me an email?
ReplyDeleteAntii tyrvainen (sp?)
ReplyDeleteNot sure how much offense he brings, but damn if he's not dick on the ice.
We had some friends of ours over for dinner last night. He is a pro scout for a team in the Eastern Conference. He thinks Omark is going to be miles better than Pajaarvi over his career, and he thinks that the only ones that don't realize that are the Edmonton Oilers. When I asked why that might be he said: Omark was not one of the "anointed three" to start last season and lacks draft pedigree. He spoke with condescending tones when discussing the Oilers pro scout staff although said nothing specific about their competence.
ReplyDeleteThere you have it from a real pro scout. I'm hoping Duane Sutter might improve this part of the organization.
Comparing Tikkanen to contemporary players who fight is the wrong thing to do. Tikkanen never fought. He started scrums, and either got lost in the pack or made sure there were plenty of rougher guys between him and the other team he riled up.
ReplyDeleteHe may have had fewer than five fights in his entire career. But high-sticking and unsportsmanlike penalties? Countless.
@ Ashley: That's a fascinating read on the pro scouting department. Given the poor job they've been doing for several years it really shouldn't surprise us.
ReplyDeleteWe can only hope that with the addition of Sutter there's no where to go but up...
Agree with the choice of Burrows as someone from the Tik tree. That he's on Vancouver makes it even worse/better depending on your POV.
Comparing Kesler and Burrows to Tikkanen is insulting to Esa. Tikkanen didn't play the game like a woman after the whistle blew.
ReplyDelete"If you don't remember Tikkanen, allow me to fill you in via the newspapers of the time." personally i think this comment is blasphemy! :) i loved Tikk and everyone should remember him or at least know of him.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Art, Burrows is a close one... but more manly of course!
Antti Tyrvainen seems like the closest player in the system, but league wide I'd say Steve Downey. Burrows is a nutter but he doesn't have the same physicality as Tikk.
ReplyDeleteTyrv may not have the same offense, but if he cut his NHL teeth on Gretzky's wing, who knows?
I think possible "tikkanens" would include Hartikainen, Lander and Paajarvi. Hartikainen has the size and rough and tumble nature - but does he have the speed? Tikk had the speed to keep up with anyone and jabber at him all night long.
ReplyDeleteLander has the defensive acumen and offensive potential. He certainly has the confidence to play the agitator role, I'm hopeful that he could fill the two-way role but wonder if he would have the aggressiveness for the PIMs.
And then there's Paajarvi. He has the offensive capability and defensive acumen but his "asshole" level doesn't seem very high. But I wonder if that will come with time and maturity - Paajarvi at 20 is probably not going to be the same player as Paajarvi at 27.
He thinks Omark is going to be miles better than Pajaarvi over his career, and he thinks that the only ones that don't realize that are the Edmonton Oilers.
ReplyDeleteI have some trouble with that opinion.
MPs is 20. Omark is more than 4 years older. Omark is likely getting close to what you get. Once MPs gets some confidence he will improve substantially.
Anyway who says that Oilers don't know what they have in Omark? They drafted him (unlike that eastern team). They sent Omark down to work on some things and he has said himself it was good for him. It would appear that he has a spot on the team this year and will get a fair shot.
I think Omark will put up more points this year but that MPS will be a much more complete player. I also have some doubts about Omark's durability given that he gets crosschecked in the back about 10 times a game.
Tikkanen was an agitator extraordinaire but he was not a malicious player. I don't remember one case where he injured somebody with any sort of cheap shot. His idea of taking advantage of an opponent in a vulnerable position would be to give a guy a faceful of snow when he was down on the ice at the whistle, that sort of thing. But he sure knew how to drive opponents nuts, even though nobody, friends or foe alike, had any idea WTF he was saying out there.
ReplyDeleteTikkannen was like a hockey playing version of an evil dwarf.
ReplyDeleteI just went on RosettaStone site, they've added Tikkanese to their languague list. ;-)
ReplyDeleteRich,
ReplyDeleteI found it quite interesting too.
Ducey,
I was thinking the same thing re: Omark vs Pajaarvi ages, but who knows. He's speculating and so are we. Time will tell if the pro or the amateurs are better forecasters.
I forgot to add that the reason he thought Edmonton doesn't know what they have in Omark vs Pajaarvi is that Edmonton has dangled Omark in several trade discussions at and since the deadline, yet when asked about Pajaarvi, Edmonton maintained he was "untouchable".
I think we should just keep 'em both.
shoulda commented in the TC Predictions thread, but i think Pajaarvi will surprise with his improvement and physicality. Not the second coming of Tikkanen, but i think he'll make better use of his 6'3" 200+ frame and be a bit of a handful.
ReplyDelete"Long-limbed with farmboy like strength", to borrow a phrase from a late August LT post.
Man i can't wait for hockey to start. Here's a link to photos of Yann Danis’ new Edmonton Oilers Mask.
ReplyDeleteI forgot to add that the reason he thought Edmonton doesn't know what they have in Omark vs Pajaarvi is that Edmonton has dangled Omark in several trade discussions at and since the deadline, yet when asked about Pajaarvi, Edmonton maintained he was "untouchable".
ReplyDeleteInteresting. But I would imagine that the Oilers are more interested in moving Omark given his age and the plethora of smurphs in their top 9 rather than a dislike of him. Moving Cogs probably reduced the pressure to move Omark.
As far as MPS is concerned, I would be all over moving him in return for a stud defenceman like Gudbranson
@ gary b:
ReplyDeleteNice find with the Danis Mask - I Like-ee
But I would imagine that the Oilers are more interested in moving Omark given his age and the plethora of smurphs in their top 9 rather than a dislike of him.
ReplyDeleteGood point.
This is just one scout too. Who knows if his opinion is a consensus among pro scouts. He's also just throwing out his ideas at a dinner amongst friends. So I also wondered how certain he would be of the differences between Omark and Pajaarvi if an MSM called him up and asked for his opinion "on the record". Maybe he would have less conviction.
Nonetheless, I found it interesting, so I thought I would share.
I always find it interesting talking to the pro scouts (we know one other) because the whole hockey world is much more closely linked than it appears from the outside. Everyone knows each other. Apparently media gets a hold of a few items from people with loose lips, but much of it is kept under wraps. Our friend was telling us last night that much of what is published in the media as an "inside story" is intentionally leaked/released (I immediately thought of Helene Elliott/Lombardi). He used the example of Mackenzie/Dreger. They even have meetings at his organization on effective use of the media.
He gave an example of a trade being offered by one team to another usually spreads amongst scouts and GM's within hours to days. Most deals fall through a few days later, and the public will never know anything about it. We know what they want us to know.
Sometimes they're caught off guard though. He used the Phaneuf trade as an example. That one happened quickly and quietly apparently.
Omark is likely getting close to what you get
ReplyDeletewould that be the 3rd/4th line omark.
39 GM 3G 15A -16 .46PPG
Or the 2nd line & pp omark
12GM 2G 7A even .75PPG
One of my favourite Tikkanen moments was something I only saw a highlight of on Sports Night years ago (remember when that show was the only way to find out what had happened in the sports world that evening?).
ReplyDeleteAs I remember it, he was playing with Washington and took a slapper from the point that wrung off the iron. There was no whistle and play continued, but the cameras caught Esa just standing in place, arms in the air, yelling at the top of this lungs and refusing to follow the play back down the ice.
This tantrum went on for about 30 seconds until the next whistle, during which time the Caps were effectively caught short-handed and I think even gave up a scoring chance.
When play stopped, they went upstairs and found out that, yes, his shot had actually gone in.
Who knows if they are still "dangling" O'Mark. Now that cogs is gone the smurf quotient isn't as much a concern. No Ryan Clowe's, but a lot of it is how you play.
ReplyDeleteMarchand in Bos. is small but he didn't seem to have much trouble with Vanc.'s forwards who have overall size, but aren't very physical. (Kesler gets all due respect though - he was on fire until he got hurt)
would that be the 3rd/4th line omark.
ReplyDeleteI think so. Hall, Eberle, Hemsky, and Smyth would be ahead of him, would they not?
If he shows he is capable of more, then it might make it that much easier to trade Hemsky at the deadline.
FastOil beat me to it, but I was just about to suggest the same thing. Steve Downie is a guy EVERYONE hates, but can actaully play a little.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of Canucks; last season the little man in my head told me the Nucks were the faves to come out of the West. For once in a blue moon I was right.
ReplyDeleteThis year I'd have to say no way Jose.
Does anyone think the Nucks have a snowball's chance in hell of making it out of the West again?
"I think so. Hall, Eberle, Hemsky, and Smyth would be ahead of him, would they not?"
ReplyDeleteTwo of those players don't have contracts after this year.
They shouldn't trade Hemsky, but I think there's a pretty good chance it happens, and Smyth is 35 and heading into the twilight of his career.