Colten Teubert has
been sent back to Edmonton as a precaution after taking a fist to the beak last night against the Canucks. Teubert was the captain of the Oiler rookies at the tournament and he was likely to play only one or two games at the event.
Teubert was likely ticketed for the OKC Barons no matter what happened this September, but any time off will seal that fate.
During the RE series, I suggested injury as being the key to his NHL chances this year:
- What has to happen in order for him to break TC with the team? Injury. I don't see any other way and it's probably two injuries.
Teubert's health for the beginning of TC is the big item here, and that's the reason the club decided to shut him down for the week.
Man did he get smoked!!
ReplyDeleteNot a huge fan of Tuebert but do not think that he traded for him for his ability to fight. He is a rough, tough to play against stay at home D man
That was so Souray and Hall-like. I hope Teubert is OK.
ReplyDeleteI don't get why they have to fight in a preseason rookie tournament...
I thought he played well (and he should have, older player) up until that point but it could cost him this fall.
ReplyDeleteI don't know that he had a thing to gain from the fight.
I don't think they have to fight in the Young Stars Tourney. I'm pretty sure its voluntary, lol.
ReplyDeleteNot sure what this cost Teubert either... One Young Stars game? Not exactly a big loss. I doubt decision-making will be based on "wish Teubert could have shown us more in the Young Stars Tourney". Besides... Being a Tambellini trade he's like to get a Khab full of opportunities.
spOILer: My comment re: "I don't know what he had to gain" comes from possible injury from the fight.
ReplyDeleteHe's fine currently, but things may be different tomorrow.
I don't get why they have to fight in a preseason rookie tournament...
ReplyDeleteSame reason that they have to fight in the regular season. And once you figure out what that is, let me know.
A friend of mine used to be the terror of the rink. Everyone knows the type. Well this guy got as far as his first major junior training camp - where he got introduced to sticks in the throat, and all kinds of other mean, nasty things. Put him right off hockey, lol.
ReplyDeleteI believe these kids fight to get noticed.
Re: deciding to fight
ReplyDeleteI wasn't really addressing the decision to fight, just that the consequences, thus far are minimal and have little impact on his career.
As to what he had to gain, and including, by heavy inference, what he had to lose...
1. No one plays the game expecting to get hurt. In fighting especially it seems injuries are rare. How many times has Teubert been seriously hurt fighting before? What are his expectations of risk?
2. Was he challenged? This isn't the "Coward of the County" but it makes a difference. Not to mention, what would management think if he backs down? Courage is one of the aspects of a player they look at. Was he responding to the other fights? Was the Canuck cheap shotting guys left and right? Did the Canuck need to make an impression and Teubert obliged him to a fight (this stuff happens in the NHL all the time)?
3. Had they fought before? If not, was this establishing the hierarchy of the hockey pack? Was it about learning about your opponent in a non-costly game situation (both from the aspect that the game has no effect on the standings, and from the aspect the game was already won)?
4. He's the Team Captain, fighting is one of the assets he brings to the table. Certainly he would feel that way, rightly or wrongly.
I dunno. Just seems like a tempest in a teapot to me.
I think the only real issue is injury. We've seen enough fights to know that injuries do occur and if it sets him back in TC then that could impact him.
ReplyDeleteI'd say it was an ill advised decision based on the importance of the game and the event just after it (TC).
I'm sure if the Oil think it was ill-advised, coaching/mgmt will be having words with him. I think they'd also admit there's a bit of a dilemma there for the player and that it might be unreasonable to expect that dilemma to be resolved in a split-second decision while in the heat of the battle on the side of caution. They certainly don't practice not getting into fights. Nor do I doubt there were any admonitions prior to the game.
ReplyDeleteHmm... Are we going to go through this with every fight in training camp and exhibition? Wouldn't fighting be ill-advised every step of the way? Could be a long autumn of angst.
If the League steps in and the teams agree to cool the fighting down, I'm definitely okay with it, but it we haven't taken that step yet. Till then, it will be Moulin Rouge out there.
It's Because the game is meaningless that fights occur - it makes no sense to suggest that the game wasn't important enough to warrant dropping the gloves.
ReplyDeleteWhen the games get important, in the playoffs, for example, the fighting pretty much goes away unless the score is out of reach.
And if it's Really injury you want to avoid, then leave the fighting in and take out the hitting. The Crosbys and Savards (and Eberle from Torres) aren't getting sidelined by punches, they're the victims of borderline hits. Remove the hits, removes the whole spectrum of play, including the borderline.
If you get to the point where you see that bodychecking/hitting is mostly about roller-derby entertainment, and not a great deal about actually checking the man and getting the puck - ie. valuable to the game - then it's pretty easy to live without. What do the rec league guys think, does not getting creamed really detract from the game?
Hitting is fun, and fun to watch. But with the speed and the size and the armor they call padding now, it's a big problem. Fighting/not fighting is a red herring issue, the problem - If there has to be one - should be about hitting.
Certainly not from me. I've always enjoyed fighting in hockey and will continue to until it's banned.
ReplyDeleteGood points, Alice.
ReplyDeleteSorry LT, but the only real issue is not injury. The only real issue is career. It is because career is the main issue that injury is important. It is also because career is the main issue that the other considerations I mentioned above are important. They can't be separated from each other because they all come under career.
I'm not certain we're disagreeing, spOILer. What am I missing?
ReplyDeleteFighting - hot topic these days. I'll admit when there's a fistacufs on I perk up and watch. However, 95% of the time its a disappointing hugging contest (See Stortini Z.). The 5% that there's a few bombs landed I say whoa he got hammered. Then my thoughts change to how I felt when Smac KO'd Ivanas. I was generally concerned for the man's life and was relieved to see him get up.
ReplyDeleteWon't miss it when it's removed from the game after someone gets turned into a vegetable. Sadly, that's what it will take with the current group of GMs who influence the league so heavily.
Hitting - Well said Alice. Notice how it's almost universally reffered to as hitting now and not body contact.
ReplyDeleteOne of the issues I have is the length of time allowed to finish a check has magically been extended to 2 or 3 seconds after the puck is gone. How does finishing a check relate to removing the man from the puck? The puck is freeking gone!
It's not just the headshots, but the late, late hits need to be taken out of the game.
Think of it this way: There's a tremendous amount of skill and speed in the game now. Just think of what the stars could do if they didn't have to worry about being decapitated, ala Savard, 2 or 3 seconds after the puck is gone.
For those who advocate for the removal of fighting my question is very simple.
ReplyDeleteWho winds up policing the Matt Cooke's, Sean Avery's and other cheap shot artists?
I know that allowing fighting has not eliminated this element from the game, but my concern is that with the instigator and the elimination of fighing (i.e. dire consequences) that the lack of respect for other players in the game could be worse.
No?
Who winds up policing the Matt Cooke's, Sean Avery's and other cheap shot artists?
ReplyDeleteSame people as now: nobody.
It's because the game is meaningless that fights occur
ReplyDeletePerhaps meaningless to the rabid fan; but to the 18 year old hoping for a professional hockey career these "meaningless" games are the Stanley Cup finals.
I think fighting has a bad reputation amongst Oilers fans currently.
ReplyDelete1. Losing Hall for significant time this season.
2. Losing Souray for significant time back when he was helping the Oilers win hockey games.
3. Watching Smac arrive 10 seconds late to any sort of hockey play during his 3 minutes of ice time.
4. Enduring JFJ failing on both ends of the passing game.
5. Stortini is the closest thing the Oilers have had recently to a fighter who could play the game, but he was a worse fighter than he was a hockey player. That's pretty damning.
6. Plante missing developmenttime last season.
If Eager ends up anywhere near 20 points and win a few fights and Sutton helps bring the PK back to respectability and keeps his head above water at evens while winning his share of fights, Oilers fan may focus elsewhere.
It's been since the days of Big Georges that there's been a winning fighter tied to a mediocre set of hockey skills.
Of course there is an argument about fighting in hockey to be had, but I think it'll be less talked about in these circles once this team stops watching it hurt our team so much.
(Also, largely agree with spOILer)
"Who winds up policing the Matt Cooke's, Sean Avery's and other cheap shot artists?"
ReplyDeleteWould it be unfair to suggest that the referees and league disciplinarian do that?
When the stories about Boogaard, Rypien and Belak broke this summer, I'm sure these lunkheaded Young Stars goons didn't see the potential consequences of a brawling career.
ReplyDeleteMost likely, they saw three jobs open up ready to be filled by the next generation of goons, who will spend even less time worrying about their futures than Boogaard, Rypien and Belak did.
I continue to be amazed at how many intelligent people lump all three stories together as if they are the same.
ReplyDeleteOkay, fine - only two of them were suicides. The third was an accidental overdose of alcohol and painkillers. Fair to say that fighters come disproportionately to self-inflicted tragedy?
ReplyDeleteOne thing I've never understood about the pro-fighting camp is the belief that if you banned fighting, that other forms of retaliation would fill the void. Specifically, stickwork would rise in frequency and viciousness.
ReplyDeleteWhat I don't get about this argument is that stickwork is already against the rules. There are minor (And major) penalties in place for it. If it's something particularly dangerous (a two hander across the wrist, say), could it not be called intent to injure and at the very least equal a game misconduct, if not lead to further discipline?
It's not like you'd need to change any rules - just strictly call all the stick work to the letter of the rule, especially when it's obviously targeted violence.
First NHL 12 game out of the box.
ReplyDeleteOilers kill the Penguins 6-2.
Hall gets the trick and stones Matt Cooke.
Hope the first game goes as well!
Daryl Katz now lives in Vancouver
ReplyDeleteDeserves a mention
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Katz+reportedly+living+Vancouver/5391667/story.html?cid=dlvr.it-twitter-edmontonjournal
It's quite sad, actually.
Someone here mentioned that a few months ago that Katz moved, but he was called out.
ReplyDeleteGuess he was right, after all.
Somewhat sad, and I love Vancouver the City. He was one of the few rich guys that stayed in this city.
"Steve Smith" - I wouldn't lump Belak in with Rypien and Boogaard, it seems it was a horrible accident.
ReplyDeleteAnd Rypien suffered from depression through his lifetime. I'm sure his chosen profession didn't help but he was ill long before he hit the NHL.
I'm one who thinks the designated goon should go the way of the dinosaur but mostly because there's just no point to them being in the game. A lot of these guys suffer from the ill effects of their profession but I don't think you can link Belak or Rypien to Boogaard and Probert really, using two examples of guys who suffered a lot for their profession.
If any one of you owned the Oilers and had school age kids, you wouldn't live in Edmonton either.
ReplyDeleteBeing the owner makes it impossible to put your kids in Edmonton schools.
That plus, the key to the arena district is to get Asian investors interested in downtown Edmonton real estate, so spending more time in Vancouver selling Edmoton real estate to Asian investors makes a lot of business sense.
ReplyDeleteGuess he was right, after all.
ReplyDeleteThat would be me. Its nice to be right once a year.
Darryl Katz is in Vancouver selling Edmonton real estate to Asian investors?
ReplyDeleteThe man is amazing.
Whose real estate is he selling?
I agree with LT that we can't lump all three tragedies together as if they were some sort of class action indictment of the NHL by fans. Each case comes with its own set of circumstances and players behind the scenes. The only commonality between these three players is that they played in the NHL and they were all known to be fighters.
ReplyDeleteI've been fortunate enough in my life that my path has crossed with folks who were involved in the day to day lives of NHL Players as either non-hockey friends and family members. What we often don't see in regards to the life of an NHL player, may shock you and I, but it just isn't quite news to the MSM, so we never really get the true story.
My guess on the deaths of these three young men is that there is a complex story behind the scenes that you and I will never know.
Fighting will be with us as long as the league won't do it's job.
ReplyDeleteThe problem for Teubert is that losing a scrap makes the big tough D man thing a little harder to sell.
Part of being a tough guy is winning a few bouts convincingly, create the mystique, then the need to fight lessens because of reputation.
Tough guys that can't win fights are better off trying to play hockey better.
Katz's kids are in public schooling? Well, that's his first mistake. If they're still in public schooling in Canuckland, I can't see it being any easier on the kids.
ReplyDeleteI don't see Teubert's reputation as a tough d-man suffering due to one loss in a fight. I think Peckham is still tough even though he got KO'ed by Nathan Horton.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to see the fighting-by-appointment by designated goons gone from the game. But I think it is an interesting question to ask - would the "total package" players like Wendel Clark, Cam Neely, Mark Messier etc. have been as respected (and revered) if they had never dropped the gloves? For many, those are favourite players becasue they could change a game or series with a goal, huge hit or a fight. I'd kind of miss that...
This thread's probably dead but I just wanted to chime to say I'm in agreement with SS that fighting needs to be removed from the game.
ReplyDeleteand the same goes for headshots. I've read too many tough stories about how fighting and headshots affect players health to be able to turn a blind eye