Rob Schremp has long been a divisive figure in Oilers lore, with millions of words on the Al Gore devoted to defending or crushing him.
I well remember the day he was drafted. My preference was for the Oilers to take him with their 14th overall selection, but they chose Devan Dubnyk instead. When Schremp was available at #25, I posted in the HF chat room that something like "LUCKY TO GET HIM HERE!"
The problem we had projecting Schremp and all CHL prospects stills exists: we don't have their time on ice totals. So, when Schremp went supernova spring 2006 and posted playoff numbers (19, 10-37-47) that looked ridiculous it was a time for celebration.
When he turned pro, Schremp found the going tough and the pro coaching identified some hitches. The quotes were pretty damning:
- Scout: “There are players who win battles in the corner and some who lose those battles. Rob Schremp has absolutely no interest in the battle.”
- MacT: “He’s not ready for the NHL yet on a full-time basis. I think that’s clear. I can see him coming back up, but I think the things he needs to stay up here long term are not quick fixes, they’re longer-term fixes. He needs the strength base and the quickness. He’s got to be strong enough to battle at a standstill with players because he’s not going to outskate many players.”
I think the Schremp draft, combined with the Pouliot draft and the Niinimaki draft, cost a few people their jobs and setback the Oilers yet again. Not getting a useful NHL center despite choosing them in the first rounds in 2002, 2003 and 2004 meant the team didn't have an answer when the veterans left via free agency.
Here's hoping Schremp finds success in Sweden and makes his way back to the NHL. The book on him in regard to Edmonton's selecting him has closed. Rob Schremp did not cover the bet.
His route back to the NHL will have to involve some time in the minor leagues, I'm thinking. Maybe in Chicago.
ReplyDeleteWho knows, he might be the next Jason Krog and be a career stud in the AHL at some point.
ReplyDeleteI don't wish him any malice. It became obvious he was not the answer and the ship sailed long ago on him.
A nice summary LT on what ultimately led to the downfall of KP. You've done more in depth posts that are a little kinder to his draft record (and the meddling perhaps of Vish), but this nails it in a nice headline.
Just for the record, I was a big Schremp fan right from the draft, he really appeared to be a Jimmy Carson 2.0 kind of player(unfortunately he ends up one anyway).
ReplyDeleteI never thought much of MacT, and am happy to see him also where he belongs(AHL).
There. Now I feel better.
The lesson to be learned here is that small guys who can't skate are in trouble in the NHL.
ReplyDeleteEvery player needs some sort of edge. For a small guy, talent is easy to neutralize if the player can't create space for himself or get away from anybody.
"Playing big" is a misused term - it only means the smaller player is game for contact, it doesn't mean that contact is necessarily effective or meaningful. It is not a strength or an edge for them.
He'll do well in Europe, and I don't see him coming back and sticking. The game gets faster every year that the league continues to call obstruction, and there's a new crop of rookies in front of him.
Bad development methods, a shoddy minor league setup and an incorrect decision to send him down when he was almost ready and we kept inferior players on the roster (talking when he was still a jr) played a role in this. He would have needed a steady and dedicated bit of coaching, but there was gold there and no one did the panning at the right time.
ReplyDeleteHe always came across as smug, cocky (tattoo os his name on his back), self-entitled.
ReplyDeleteOther quotes include that he didn't come to camp in his best shape.
He went one summer to Regina to work on his skating. He didn't return the next year. Just makes you shake your head - you're a prospect with more natural talent than your peers - work on your weaknesses.
Rob Schremp screwed Rob Schremp.
Good riddance.
Bad development methods, a shoddy minor league setup and an incorrect decision to send him down when he was almost ready and we kept inferior players on the roster (talking when he was still a jr) played a role in this. He would have needed a steady and dedicated bit of coaching, but there was gold there and no one did the panning at the right time.
ReplyDeleteExcuses, excuses. He had 3 NHL teams that gave a shot on him.
He didn't take advantage of it.
The fact of the matter is, he just wasn't a very good prospect, who simply got overrated due to what were inflated point totals generated with massive PP TOI.
He has skill and talent, a natural goal scorer. Hundreds of guys have that, turning 17 or 18, every year.
ReplyDeleteWhy few make the NHL is that it isn't enough. The best players in the world play in the NHL. In the best league in the world for a forward, unless you are truly exceptional, you also have to be a good skater, and big enough.
Many of us have played hockey with really good players, who were too small or slow to play at the next level, because the players there were also good, and bigger and faster.
Schremp was a poor choice IMO. Success (points and winning) in junior doesn't translate well if you are missing everything else. Most of the other teams saw this, that is why he fell to 25. The shiny baubles dazzled KP's eyes.
"Maybe in Chicago."
ReplyDeleteVery twisted.I like that.
The other thing nobody did early on was look at Schremp's EV/PP production. He was a power play god, but worse than Liam Reddox at even-strength.
ReplyDeleteThis wasn't a development problem. This was a guy always bound for the role of PP specialist.
The other problem was the Oilers didn't take (as per Jim Matheson) a 2nd round pick that was offered on draft day (summer 2009) by the New York Islanders.
ReplyDeleteInstead, Tambellini needed more time to evaluate.
Two months later, Rob Schremp was on waivers.
@JW
ReplyDeleteNot surprising - the space is there on PP so he could actually use his talents.
ES scoring really seems to show who is a dominant player.
How do you say "Shine Box" in Swedish?
ReplyDeletePJO, I think you have that backwards. The Oilers were the ones shopping Schremp at the draft hoping for a 2nd. No one was interested, and the Islanders correctly surmised he could be had on waivers after training camp.
ReplyDeleteIn a different league - one where the fourth line is used for specialists rather than energy - Schremp would have stuck around as a PP/shootout guy.
ReplyDeleteHell, for teams that want a 2:00/night line, he could line up with MacIntyre and some PK guy (with Schremp or the PK moving up in case of injury, since he presumably can do other things to some degree). If you're going to run a player like Mac out there, that's the way.
@PJO/Uni: I don't think much of Tambellini, but I remember it as Uni does.
Uni
ReplyDeleteI definitely recall Jim Matheson saying the Oilers didn't take the Islanders draft pick offer (wanted more) and rather took the chances he'd make the team at training camp.
Here's another article that suggests the Oilers didn't cut bait on Schremp when they had the opportunity.
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/sports/canucks/story.html?id=83dda324-8676-49f3-a19c-14b79141ae3b
As for Schremp, the Oilers wouldn't move him for a second-round draft pick to the Los Angeles Kings or Phoenix Coyotes. They've got too much invested in Schremp, the 25th player taken in 2004.
Somewhat should tell management what sunk cost means.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteT, I realize his going to Sweden made it official, but from your perspective, would the book not have closed on him long before?
ReplyDeleteI would think the expectation of every NHL team is that their first round selections will eventually be starters. As soon as the Oil gave up on him as a starter, I would think that closes the book. All he did after that was string it out with bottom feeder franchises who took a flyer on him in the hopes that he wasn't a bust. They were wrong, as were the Oilers.
I guessing what I'm saying here is the Oilers closed the book and the onus was on Scremp to prove them wrong as opposed to the book staying open until Scremp proved unequivocally that the Oil were right. Basically, I'm advocating guilty until proven innocent in regards to personnel management. lol
On a side note, this would definitely be a good time for all those claiming MacT killed this guy's career to admit otherwise...
I know how Shremp feels. If only I had the right mentoring and development, I would surely be in the NHL. In fact all of us would. We were just not fortunate enough to recieve that.
ReplyDelete...or maybe Shremp and the rest of us just don't have the right combination of skills and attitude that are required to make it in the NHL?
I can't wait for the next Schremp thread.
ReplyDeleteAstonishingly, I pretty well agree with everything said until Jonathan Willis's opinion, which is also escellent.
It's our fault that Schremp failed.
Hell, for teams that want a 2:00/night line, he could line up with MacIntyre and some PK guy (with Schremp or the PK moving up in case of injury, since he presumably can do other things to some degree). If you're going to run a player like Mac out there, that's the way.
ReplyDeleteExcept then you are taking the cherry PP minutes away from your 1st and 2nd liners, which makes them grumpy.
Interesting idea of having a PP specialist, but the bigger question is who gets pulled off the PP?
Its probably ideal to have your PP teams made up of the 1st two lines and your PK made up of players from 3 & 4 in order to not exhaust your key players.
@ JW - I had a thought similar to your comment on using specialty players on the 4th line as I listened to Mike Comrie interview with Tencer on CHED last night. If he is ever able to recover from hip surgery, he strikes me as an ideal 4W or 13thF on a team like DET. I hope for his sake that his NHL career is not over, I think there's still some real tread left on his tires.
ReplyDelete@ Woodguy:
ReplyDeleteMost teams have a guy from the Upshall/Torres family on them - top-six even-strength forwards that can't get the job done on the PP. They generally end up getting shunted to the third line and designated as checkers as a result.
On a team with a specialist line, you roll that kind of player in the top-six and sub Schremp in on the PP.
Alternately, you run four forwards on the PP, which is also pretty popular these days.
@ranford4life:
ReplyDeleteYeah, the league is full of these guys. Jason Williams is another good example (though at his peak, as with Comrie, he was much more than Schremp is).
@hunter1909
ReplyDeleteOnly because we actually drafted him.
As far as development goes, for a first round pick help is available if they want it.
It's the later round guys or long shots that you might argue have been left on their own, which thankfully seems to be changing.
is Rob Schremp the next Kyle Wellwood?
ReplyDeletededepar: a par of dede's.
is Rob Schremp the next Kyle Wellwood?
ReplyDeleteNo, Sam Gagner is. Have you not read your Traktor today?
There are lots of guys who can rip up junior and don't have the tools to be NHL guys. Schremp fits that to a T. He couldn't change his physical realities. I suppose he could have gotten himself into Horcoff/Chelios level shape/strength and had a career, but anything short of obsessive dedication to fitness and he wasn't going to be strong enough to be small and an awkward skater. Hands and hockey smarts aren't enough.
ReplyDeleteLook at the two Kevins standing there grinning like a couple of pigs pissin'!! How to fuck up a franchise "101" at your disposal.
ReplyDeleteBTW there were no slam dunks after him anyway. A guy like David Bolland or Dubinski would look good as an Oiler... but those picks probably wouldn't have made sense at the time. It's a 24th overall pick. You swing and miss at those often enough.
ReplyDeleteThe comp that leaves my blood running cold from the 2004 draft is this one.
ReplyDelete25. EDM Rob Schremp, C, London Knights
32. CHI David Bolland, C, London Knights
Same fucking team. Prendergast and crew would have seen both guys on the same ice surface, against the same opponents, time and again. As the link shows Bolland was right on Schremp's tail on the scoring front that year, and in fact remained right on Schremp's tail as they each had two more great years in London. Except Bolland was developing all other aspects of his game and Schremp was developing none of his, unless you consider lacrosse shootout moves among "other aspects of the game." (And I don't, but that's a whole 'nother rant.;)
I know Bolland's come a long way since 2004 (although not quite so far as Sweden, come to think of it). Surely however the signs were already there in 2003-04 as to what a competitive bastard he is compared to ol' Sugartits. That alone would be a flag AFAIC.
I can't say what their roles were in their draft year, but I saw a fair bit of the Super Knights during the lockout year, and by then Schremp was lighting it up on the PP - where he was absolutely fucking deadly btw - and playing with Corey Perry a lot, and Bolland seemed to be doing more of the heavy lifting at evens and on the PK as well. Or so I remember it, from considerable distance. I do remember turning on a couple games to watch Schremp and coming away impressed with Bolland.
I needn't ask anybody here whether the Oilers could have used a Dave Bolland on this club the last few years. Not to mention the next few.
As Prendergast fails go, this one was epic.
Thank god when Omark was rightly sent down he didn't pull a Shinebox and sulk for 2 years. We got a better player because of it.
ReplyDeleteOne willing to listen to his coaches, one willing to play D and not simply cruise the blue line when the puck was in his own end.
Omark was horrible in TC last year. Played Rob Schremp hockey, at least in his own zone. Would have been batshit crazy not to send him to the minors same as Schremp years before. Thank god Omark chose to change.
Rob Schremp is the next Doug Gilmour.
ReplyDeleteI needn't ask anybody here whether the Oilers could have used a Dave Bolland on this club the last few years. Not to mention the next few.
ReplyDeleteIn an alternate history, the Oilers draft Bolland and the Blackhawks can't beat the Canucks in the 2010 playoffs. Vancouver goes all the way.
Conclusion: Kevin Pendergrast is the greatest hero in the history of Canada.
So... what the fuck happened to Jimmy Carson?
ReplyDelete50 goals and a 100 points as a 19 year old.
Traded to Edmonton.
50 goals and a 100 points again as a 20 year old.
And then becomes a suitcase who never comes into the same postal code again.
Boozin and women?
No longer will we hear "but Gagner is only 21".
ReplyDeleteToday is his 22nd birthday.
Giddyup Sam.
PDO - He didn't like hockey.
ReplyDeleteKP left some serious value on the table in that draft - and you can cobble together multiple scenarios that leave the Oilers way better off. In fact the 2002-2004 period is an epic failure by KP - 4 picks in the 1st round and all we came away with Dubnyk who may end up being a decent starting goalie. That's crushing....
ReplyDeleteFun fact - Andrew Cogliano is currently #6 in points from the 2005 draft. Sadly flawed as a player but he covered.
Today's Oilers are the Rob Schremp of NHL franchises. Smug, arrogant, supposedly loaded with talent, can't play defence worth spit and when put on the ice, fail to compete time and time again.
ReplyDelete//In a different league - one where the fourth line is used for specialists rather than energy - Schremp would have stuck around as a PP/shootout guy.//
ReplyDeleteHockey players are human beings, not rotisserie league robots. You won't have any kind of team if a coach plays a 4th line prima donna on the power play over his best even strength producers.
A forward who is a power play specialist is a position that does not exist on any good hockey TEAM.
@Schitzo: good call! Or how about an alternate history where Oilers choose Kesler over Pouliot a year earlier?
ReplyDeleteBruce: as a guy who loves watching Bolland play your point both impressed and depressed me.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Dennis. Usually with guys playing all over the map I'm prepared to give the scouts a certain amount of latitude - how do you compare Pouliot to Kesler, or RNH to Landeskog to Couturier to Larsson for that matter, when they don't even play in the same league? But two guys playing the same position on the same team you should be able to get a better read on, and have a higher education in your eventual guess.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, it's depressing. I like Bolland myself, he's exactly the kind of player we haven't had here for way too many years.
I found that Lane article fascinating when I first read it. The problem here was failing to address why Rob kept drifting back to wide track in the heat of the moment.
ReplyDeleteThere's a linkage in his neuro-muscular system between doing the magician thing with the puck and the wide stance he prefers. What he needed in addition to Lane was a hand-eye coach, who could fix his swing (aka teach him how to do it to the same level while skating with good form).
One work term long ago I had to bike home to my shabby room in Richmond Hill after work every day. I was young and I liked to blow myself up on the cardio thing so I just mashed up the hill every time until the world constricted to a red tunnel of pain. There were days I was afraid I would get run over trying to make the slow right turn at the top onto my side street because I was wobbling from a fatigue so intense that making the turn at all challenged me, like one of those hurdlers who crushes the hurdles and face plants on his victory lap.
For some reason I found it easier to mash up the hill with my head slightly turned toward the sidewalk. I could track myself up the hill at maximum exertion by following the steady white curb and ignoring traffic (Toronto the good has wide roads with gutters that would serve as collector lanes anywhere in Europe, so I never felt hemmed in).
I got pretty fast by the end of summer. I was up six gears on my 10-speed from my slack-ass beginning.
Fast forward a few years and I've joined a rowing team. On the erg 'till you puke fitness test, every time when I reached my breaking point with about two minutes remaining, my head would start to twist right toward the sidewalk of long ago, exactly as I trained myself in Richmond Hill at maximum exertion.
I got shit on by the coach every time (you can't balance your oar properly with your head twisted), yet it was surprisingly hard to eliminate this tendency. If I put my head forward, I lost precious seconds of ultimate dig.
Say you're cruising toward the end of your short pukathon at 1:50 per 500 meters on the erg (real men would be pulling 1:35, but that's another thing). In the dying moments, if I pulled one stroke at 1:48 my eyes would go wide with panic at where the energy was going to come from for the stroke after that. The knife edge of maximum effort is an amazing thing, even if my maximum effort was decidedly middling.
Imagine if I had been trying to be the Hockey Jesus through fat hockey gloves at the same time . Rob's problem was that he was trying to do too much with his hands at a level of compete where his legs disappeared from consciousness.
How you break an athlete of something like that without breaking the athlete is the key to a lucrative career in sports consulting. It was probably something that needed to happen between seasons, and not under the calm and collected tutelage of a man subject to the public scorn of the hanging jury, not to name any names.
Imagine you're the coach of the American team in the Ryder cup and you notice that John Daly has a terrible hitch at the top of his back-swing that ruins his driving accuracy. You'll take him out to hit a few buckets, and tune him up right fast, before competition begins later that day.
Yeah, we ruined Schremp by leaving him to his own devices for too long. No-one knew on draft day that his talent was welded to his liability, and he didn't find a way to break the vicious connection.
I wasn't turning my head because I didn't know any better, but because it was deeply engraved into my process of ultimate dig.
Just in case I prolixed my main point into the end boards:
ReplyDeleteThese cases where you just can't tell up front whether a prospects talents and liabilities have already opened a joint chequing account are sitting ducks for the hustlers of hindsight.
Lowetide or others, I'm trying to find someone who would be willing to speak about hockey analytics to a group of applied math folks. Many will be business people, engineers, or consultants and most will be hockey fans. It would be an evening in October with maybe 30 guests. If you are interested or know anyone who is, please let me know at han(dot)dagith at gmail.com.
ReplyDelete@pbboy
ReplyDelete"Shine box" in Swedish would be either something like:
lysande kartong pronounced or
glans box.
Time will tell what the people of Örnsköldsvik (where Modo plays) think of Sugartits = Sockertuttar