--
The family road trip is now over and man the times are changing.
My daughter discovered classic rock about three years ago and now it's the original flavor that has piqued her interest. I have to confess a lot of the 55-57 rock and roll hasn't been on my radio in forever, so cruising the canyon and listening to Chuck Berry was very cool. I don't know how many of those rock and rollers are still around (I imagine Berry is still hiring pickup bands and checking his guitar as luggage on flights) but if any of them hit your town it might be the last chance to see an absolute legend.
The boy is getting some notice for a game he's created among our friends and family, I hope he posts it on youtube (buddy keeps tweaking) and I'll link it if and when he does. We spent a few minutes at Vancouver Film School (Cartoon Colin: we asked after you and left a message, hope you got it) and I think my son has found his passion.
Now if the girl can write another Johnny B. Goode.......
--
Every year at this time I do a post about balance. Usually there's a plane crash photo and I talk about balance on take off and then the Oilers don't do anything to address it. I'm going to save all of us a lot of time: the following statements are true.
- The Oilers--as always--are out of balance. It has been this way since the lockout and before. The 05-06 team waited until the deadline and almost missed the playoffs with an outstanding group before finally trading for a goalie.
- The Oilers needed a defenseman BEFORE the Whitney worries. Now they absolutely need to add someone who can help Gilbert-Smid, Peckham-Barker, Sutton-Petry and Chorney.
- The goaltending remains a worry. I think we can be fairly certain that the team will make a move during the season should NK be unable to hold the fort and stay healthy (and we have a lot of evidence this is so), but the organization should have delivered stronger options for the coaching staff during the summer.
- The Oilers should make a move to address both defense and goaltending this week.
Why? Taylor Chorney. The evildoers will grab him off waivers. That's my guess.
the overvaluing of mid level prospects/borderline pros by the Org does annoy me. Pouliot (who I know played well in the AHL), Jacques, etc. not being sent down and guys who earn a spot getting minored due to waiver eligibility is an annoying trend. When you have tweeners (ie. Chorney) or guys who bring only one dimension (Jacques) and do not have any future on your team beyond bottom pairing or 4th line duty, you should be willing to waive them the moment a better option appears. Those players are a die a dozen. Hannan signed for not much more then Chorney for goodness sake. Bottom pairing dmen, bottom 6 forwards who are veterans, who will help you team win, and who will give your coach a much sounder sleep are always available. Especially now with the salary cap and vets going to camps with tryout contracts.
ReplyDeleteSo while I know we need a top 4 guy on D, and a better goalie option (prob only via trade). What vets are out there that could address some of our needs and may come on a tryout basis?
The really sad thing is that we are the people with first shot at waivers.
ReplyDeleteWe should really be less worried about what we can keep and more concerned with what we can grab.
Last year we wasted that back end benefit of last place finish. Hopefully this year we actually take a shot at someone else's waiver eligible guys.
Comments from yesterday that the Oil management are building better now. Those type of statements are predicated on Hall, Eberle and MPS being a year older. We still have a terribly suspect D, our only top pairing guy has ankle issues similar to Crosby's head issues (they may, in fact, be permanent) and we hope a 25 yr old goalie can develop into a starter.
ReplyDeleteSomebody said Sather got lucky. Yup absolutely!! He and more particularly Barry Fraser kept drafting studs out of their butt in later rounds. Like NJD and Detroit do year after year. It's why n/w/s Fraser retired and forgot to tell the Oilers for say the mid nineties.....but man did he have a run
Oilers need to develop kids. Identify who are the best players to keep are, make some trades that fill holes, shape a balanced roster, find a goalie and start with serious cap management. Because that crisis is not far off for this core group
Sather actually had a similar problem on the blue, but signed some guys like Randy Gregg and Charlie Huddy.
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers don't do it that much anymore, one of the reasons I think the pro scouting staff has been shored up.
LT: It's one of the reasons we hope the pro scouting has been shored up. The track record of the Sutter's is they sign guys with a history of playing for them in various stops regardless of whether they are of value.
ReplyDeleteIf Oiler's management were looking to be competitive this year, I'd agree with your sentiments on a trade...but am not holding out hope. Also, I won't be surprised if Whitney is not ready for the start of the season.
And given that and a highly suspect Khabibulin we could be in a deep hole by Boxing Day. If that happens, it could make things very uncomfortable for management.
I find it hard to imagine a free agent signing that would help at this point.
ReplyDeleteThe goaltending options seem to be Emery, if his walk-on doesn't work out, and Leclaire whose hip surgery might well have been career ending. There is of course the chance either of those guys could get it together and tear up the NHL but it isn't a lot more likely than Kabibulin rebounding. After that you have guys like Kari Ramo. At least he is the right age and has the arrows going in the right direction.
On defence your two best remaining free agents are Chris Campoli and Karel Rachunek. At least Rachunek would give you a lethal pointman on the powerplay. If you could convince him to return from Europe.
Trades don't seem very likely until teams have seen what they've got at training camp and pre-season. Someone might dump a useful part on waivers. But I think what you see with the Oilers is what you get for most of 2011-2012. That is part of why I think we are reasonably comparable to the 73-74 Islanders, likely to see a huge improvement in the underlying numbers and very little change in position and games won. The trade deadline and the next draft need to bring the team into balance.
Vor
ReplyDeleteWe have a single top pairing D man and he has 50 yr old ankles. We have no one in the system that projects into a top pairing D man unless it is Marincin. Nor do we have an elite goaler. If RNH does what we expect we have a 1C in 3-4 years. ditto Lander as a number 3C.
We have lots of holes
You realise off the 73/74 Isles only 8 guys off that roster were around when they started winning
Bra and Panties had v3.1 looking to trade from the plethora of wingers + Smid for a Real NHL 1-2 Dman.
ReplyDeleteIf that's true, I hope it happens before TC. If not, the playoffs could be proverbial distant bell by Christmas.
It would push every D left down the chart by 1 slot and perhaps 5 of 6 dmen in the line up would not be playing above their established NHL ability. One good D has a big echo effect on this team due to slotting everyone down a notch. Huge actually.
One can hope.
As for Khabby, its folly to think something will happen quickly. v3.1 doesn't move quickly.
Next year's UFA crop has some decent players, perhaps they can grab one of them next summer.
Here is the unedited list of 2012 UFA goalies (down to Nabakov):
Player
Huet, Cristobal
Brodeur, Martin
Roloson, Dwayne
Rinne, Pekka
Niittymaki, Antero
Mason, Chris
Leighton, Michael
Vokoun, Tomas
Ellis, Dan
Gustavsson, Jonas
Hedberg, Johan
Clemmensen, Scott
Auld, Alex
Biron, Martin
Backlund, Johan
Harding, Josh
Conklin, Ty
Danis, Yann
Raycroft, Andrew
McElhinney, Curtis
Montoya, Al
Elliott, Brian
Johnson, Brent
Sanford, Curtis
Nabokov, Evgeni
Vokoun and Rinne are the prizes next summer. Seeing as Holmgren/Clarke/Snider have their goalie there is less of a chance that the bidding will get stupid.
I like Johnson too.
Johnson posted a .922 in 23 games last year (Fleury posted a .918 in 65 games) and has a .905 in 293 NHL career games. At 34 he would be good as a back up or starter should DD falter.
Who knows, he may be the next Rollie/Thomas, attaining his highest level of play in his mid 30's.
Goalies are voodoo.
you mean we can't just re-sign Martin Gerber?
ReplyDelete*shock*
The Other John,
ReplyDeleteThere were 18 members of the 1973-1974 New York Islanders on the roster in 1974-1975 when they had the biggest turnaround in hockey history improving by 32 points. I'd be ecstatic if the Oilers improved over the next two years as much as the Islanders did from the beginning of 73 through the end of 75. The first year they improved their goal differential by 100 and the next year added 32 points. I am sure you meant to say that only eight were there when they won the first Stanley Cup, not when they started winning.
As for Whitney's fifty year old ankles you seem to misunderstand his history. He has had two reconstructive surgeries to his meta-tarsals and the base of his feet, one on each side. That is because he had and has very high arches (nothing to do with his ankles). These surgeries are meant to alleviate chronic pain. There is nothing anywhere in the literature that suggests those surgeries make him more likely to have ankle problems.
He has had one ankle injury, staggeringly rare, which the literature would suggest he will never suffer again. The odds are extremely good that Whitney will recover 100% in terms of functionality from that injury and the subsequent surgery.
The Islanders from expansion through about 1977 made so many good moves it was bordering on cheating. They stole Bob Bourne after not drafting him, they somehow walked out of the 1974 draft with 2/3's of the best line they've ever seen, and the club added little items like Chico Resch for just money.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, but the time you read their transaction history and find out what it took to acquire John Tonelli you're starting to believe Torrey cheated.
While I am not in any way disrespecting Bill Torrey, cheating he wasn't, lucky he was. Think of it this way LT, consider what we'd say if the Oilers traded Taylor Hall for Martin St. Louis. That is the closest comparable I can find to the trade that sent Billy Harris away and brought in an aging smurf 2nd line centre whose best years where behind him. But God could Butch Goring bring it in the playoffs even if the wheels were slowing falling off in the regular season.
ReplyDeleteTorrey was wicked smart, maybe the greatest GM of all time. However, some of it was plain blind luck. A lot of posters here have made the point that drafting big and tough in the first round and ignoring talent is dumb. Torrey did just that taking Clark Gillies 4th OV. Then GM after GM passed on Brian Trottier. Yet for all that in over 100 picks the Islanders only got 27 who had anything that looked like NHL careers and only about fifteen who were impact players. It just helps if they include 4 that are good enought to end up in the Hall of Fame.
vor: Harris was a former 1st overall who (by the time he was traded) had not delivered on promise. Islanders also traded Dave Lewis, a solid veteran defender in that deal.
ReplyDeleteGoring was a quality center for the Kings almost from the day he was drafted, and trading him was a big deal (I remember it well). Although Goring was well into his career by that time (he was drafted in 1969, and spent very little time in the minors. I'm not going to look it up but iir he played in the minors for half a season in the second year of his pro career) he was most certainly an extremely valuable item.
Islanders paid in full but they also had the depth.
LT, with all respect, lets pretend the guy was traded to a non playoff contender and that it didn't break Billy Harris' heart and spirit. 500 consecutive games Harris had played, in any role Torrey wanted, always a plus player.
ReplyDeleteGoring had gone 73, 85, 73, 87, 79 (year of the trade). He then went 60, 32, 39, 46, and 41. He had two amazing play off runs and two good ones on championship teams. Had he been traded to a non-contender we would use it as an example of over paying for aging talent. A rock solid forward who could check and a solid defensive dman in the middle of an outstanding career for an aging centre on the long slide. If I gave you the facts without mentioning Goring's name you'd say terrible trade.
I wasn't trashing Hall, I hope he proves to be as durable as Harris and as open to doing whatever the coaching staff needs. 500 consecutive games of Hall would be a wonderful thing. I was just making the point that the gospel here is that you don't over pay for aging stars and Torrey certainly did. Then he came up smelling of roses. Luck was a factor. Had Goring's regular season play have translated into the post-season the Islanders would have had at most 1 cup and that would have been a reach.
What in Christ are you talking about? I have zero idea how you cam across the idea that Goring was some spent force but he wasn't at the time of the trade or for some time afterward.
ReplyDeleteGoring's offensive totals were down because of the role he played on the Islanders. He scored a few PK goals during that time because that was his role, but if he'd had the opportunity to play 5x4 a lot I'm sure the numbers would have reflected it.
Goring was a solid player on an outstanding team after the deal. He was less important to the offense and that is reflected in his numbers.
Still, he'd pop 5 SH'ers a season and found a way to help at even strength too.
Did you see Goring as an Islander? Not trying to be a jerk, just asking.
Vor
ReplyDeleteSign me up for lucky. Or better yet, can we fire the unlucky,and unsuccessful, gentlemen that currently run this team and get some lucky guys to replace them. See cuz luck follows certain people around and avoids others. In most businesses they call that type of luck, talent. In Edmonton, but for injuries we could have been contenders.
It's not that the Oilers tell you that, it's that you believe them when they say it
Currently I do not see a Trottier, a Smith, a Potvin, a Gillies or a Tonelli on our roster or in our prospects. Think the Isles would have made the SCF 6 times without that group?
Now as to Goring he did whatever was asked of him without ego, without attitude and without complaint. Think of him as a talented Shawn Horcoff.
We have some very intriguing wingers. Ok centers, a bad D and are resting our hopes on a 25 yr old developing into a starting NHL goalie. We also have good prospects on the farm. Some of whom will develop.
We do not have the 73/74 Isles prospects. Might think 09/10 Islanders as better comparable.
Ankle injuries can be very troublesome. 8 months later he is still having some problems. Unless mistaken, early word was Whitney was going to play at World hockey Championships in"...............May. How'd that work out?
I hope he is fine because we desperately need him. Think he would be top 4 D on 1977 Islanders?
Vor
ReplyDeletePS being a talented Shawn Horcoff was a compliment because SH could have played on championship Isles and Oiler teams
LT,
ReplyDeleteActually I loved Butch as kid, lifetime fan. The weird helmet, the tiny head, the insane work ethic. Deadly short handed goal scorer. However, facts are facts. I think perhaps you weren't a Goring fan and don't remember him, particularly once the Kings got Dionne. He was the best 2C in hockey, Butch was. Then for a couple of years post trade he was the best 2C in the playoffs. For that matter the best player in the playoffs, period. That just masked how much game he had lost.
Butch was the 2C, the 2nd team power play, and 1st team penalty killer in Los Angleles and then the 2C, 2nd team power play and 1st team penalty killer on the Island. Yet he went from 79 points to 60 and then 32 points as he eventually lost the 2C job to Duane Sutter. Sutter also became a big part of the penalty kill, not that Goring didn't continue to be the 1C on the PK. Goring was on and off the Islanders 2nd power play unit up until the arrival of Pat Lafontaine but was never as good as he had been for years in LA. He didn't get that much power play time either place by the way. Dionne and Trottier were power play work horses.
The Islander's penalty killing was actually worse for two years after acquiring Butch. Goring was amazing on the PK. However, they deeply missed Dave Lewis.
Butch's role didn't change he just aged out. Happens to the best of them. Was he a valuble member of the Islanders? Absolutely. Would he have been as valuable to a bad team? No.
Was he spent force? No. Was he on the downhill slide? Absolutely. It was a gutsy move on Torrey's part and it paid off. But the trade fit exactly the pattern you have talked about here yourself. Too old for too much.
The Other John,
The 1973-1974 Islanders did not have Trottier, Gillies or Tonelli, yet they improved their goal differential by 100 goals. To that team they added three great players and some very good ones (two of whom are in management here now). I am simply saying we are now close enough to see a bright future. We are exactly where the Islanders were in 1973-1974, big holes and lots of promise with a coach who can actually teach.
Regarding the pro scouting angle, Ryan Batty took a swing at this at C&B. We've had mostly the same pro scouts since the end of the lockout, at least. Which is more likely: they suddenly got dumb, or the new guy in charge did something different with the information they gave him?
ReplyDeleteAccording to hockey-reference, Goring was on the ice for the following PP goals by season:
ReplyDelete78-79: 64
79-80: 62
80-81: 24
81-82: 10
82-83: 5
83-84: 6
You said: "Butch was the 2C, the 2nd team power play, and 1st team penalty killer in Los Angleles and then the 2C, 2nd team power play and 1st team penalty killer on the Island."
Was that through 1984 spring or would you agree that perhaps he wasn't used quite as often as some of the other forwards like Trottier, Bourne, Gillies, Tonelli, the Sutters, Kallur, Lafontaine etc.
To further make the point, here are the forward totals for GF on PP in the 81-82 season:
Bossy 58
Trottier 51
Gillies 33
Tonelli 29
Brent Sutter 15
Duane Sutter 14
Bourne 11
Goring 10
Kallur 8
Merrick 5
Nystrom 3
Now remember Denis Potvin and Stefan Persson were on that team, as well as Mike McEwen and Tomas Jonsson.
So, that team--who scored 80 PP goals--had all kinds of options but kept sending Goring out there like it was 1979?
@ Vor
ReplyDeleteWe are not "exactly where the Islanders were in 73/74".
In 1973, the NYI, a team which started from zero in expansion, drafted a generationsl talent on the blueline in Denis Potvin.
They already had a Hall of Fame goaltender in Billy Smithand a more than capable backup in Chico Resch.
The Islanders turaround (a 32 point increase) came in 1975 after they had already drafted Gillies and Trottier.
Both Gillies and Trottier got right to work out of junior with Gillies scoring 25 goals and 47 points and Trottier scoring 32 goals and 95 points as a rookie.
They also managed to draft Stefan Persson in that draft and he went on to play 622 games and score 369 points.
So, at this point the Islanders have a HOF GM, a HOF coach, A HOF #1C, a HOF #1W, a HOF #1D and a HOF starting goaltender.
Do you see any HOF candidates in goal, on the blue line or in management on the Oilers?
Perhaps Hall may have that kind of career...maybe Eberle if he overachieves, but the rest look like 6's. 7's, 8's and 9's to me.
Vor
ReplyDeleteYou are comparing the current Oilers to one of the 3 best teams in the post expansion modern era. Geez and I thought others here were a wee bit optimistic
The Isles had everything! Scoring, size, toughness, goaltending and the ability to play whichever way you wanted to play. They had the best D man of the era. They had the toughest 1C center of his time. The only enforcer who was an elite player. The consummate sniper 9 50 goal seasons and a beauty of a roster 1-22
We have Taylor Hall, Eberle and MPS who have a ton of potential. And RNH.
Now to the extent that you do not think much of Butch Goring as a player, we agree to disagree. If Sam Gagner can play like BG we will be very very fortunate indeed.
I am still blown away by your comparison of a team with intriguing wingers as a DYNASTY.
Did you ever see Denis Potvin play? He lead his team in scoring for like 5 years. our comparable would be??????
Plus they were junkyard mean.
ReplyDeletePotvin could kill you with hits, ditto Trottier. Tonelli and Nystrom would exhaust you in the corners and ONLY the super heavyweights wanted any part of Gillies. Notably Philly did not like fighting Gillies at all but Boston being Boston could always find somebody to do it 5-6 times a year.
PS the year Trottier scored 95, yup, he was second to Potvin in team scoring. Maybe the best wrist shooting D man in from the point in NHL history
Billy Smith was also a fairly decent goalie, altho after seeing you slag B Goring, I may be wrong.
He also thought he was better than Bobby Orr.
ReplyDeleteSo you can add "deluded" to his resume.
Source: Canadian Weekend Magazine, following 1976 Canada Cup.
The Oilers should make a move to address both defense and goaltending this week.
ReplyDeleteOr what?
Short of bringing in Chara and Tim Thomas, the Oilers are not making the playoffs. To me it doesn't matter if they miss by 8 points or 28.
This year will allow them to really figure out what they have on D and G. Was last year a mirage for Whitney? Can Gilbert play #2? Can Peckham and Smid take another step? Can Chorney and Petry become real NHLers? Can Barker be salvaged? Is there a chance for Potter, Teubert and Fedun? Is Marincin to be counted on going forward? Is DD at least a .916 goaler or was that just lucky?
The answers to these questions will decide what they need come July.
Art: I remember that article. I delivered it in the Star Phoenix and then read it that night.
ReplyDeleteDucey: There will be the same questions a year from now. If there's one thing this management group could teach it's moving the cluster backward.
If they could draft babies they would, I swear to God.
Chuck Berry probably still writes the occasional song....when he can tear himself away from rigging cameras in women's toilets.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of toilets, how about those Edmonton Oilers!
Hi LT ... didn't get any message from the fine folks at VFS! ... they must know I'm an Oilers fan ....
ReplyDeleteshoot me a message at cartooncolin AT gmail.com
I'd be happy to be of any help! (and brutally honest ;) )
Also TreenasOil tweeted today about Tambo looking to procure a Defenseman ... listed possible names going out ... but not in.
TreenasOil Tracy Lane
ReplyDeleteOilers are talking to 3 teams about a defenceman, names in play from the Oilers Gagner,Hemsky VV, Omark Jones, Petry,Chorney as per Garfield
3 hours ago
TreenasOil Tracy Lane
Oilers looking to move multiple players out to get a defenceman.
3 hours ago
Lowetide and the rest of the gang,
ReplyDeleteI will say it again. I loved Butch Goring, but his carrer was on the downhill side when Torrey traded for him. He was already struggling to perform on the power play having gone from 13 goals on the PP to 2 before the trade despite being on the ice a lot.
Before the trade in 30 playoff games he had scored 18 points (.6 per game). After the miracle years he scored 31 playoff points in 65 playoff (.48 per game). For two years he went 39 in 39 games. At a time when his career was trending down.
Also from hockey reference:
1979-1980 total goals 22 EV, 2 PP, 2 PK
1980-1981 total goals 18 EV, 4, PP, 1PK
that doesn't look like much of a role change to me yet his point total drops from 79 to 60, while actually scoring more on the power play. The following year he went 9 1 5 and you can see his power play time being taken by Brett and Duane Sutter but do you really think losing 3 power play goals explains a drop of 9 goals, a 50% reduction?
The Other John you just did it again. I said we are where the Islanders were in 1973-1974. They had some good things, about four pieces of the final puzzle. Yet you insist on claiming I am comparing us to the 1979-1980 Islanders. I am not, never did. However, you must see some merit to my argument since you keep trying to turn it into something preposterous. I guess you just can't see past the hate you harbour for the Oilers management.
Lowetide has predicted in his reasonable expectations series a change in goal differential of significant magnitude. I happen to agree with him. That was the sign that the bare bones of a good team was emerging in the Island in 1973-1974. I think it will prove so here as well.
DSF, yes, the turn around in points happens after Trottier and Gillies, but it was foreshadowed the year before by the huge change in goal differential. One of the largest in NHL history.
None of you can seriously believe that had you been in New York in 1973-1974 you would have known that the Islanders had two Hall of Fame players, a Hall of Fame GM, and a Hall of Fame coach. Thus you can't say that we don't have two Hall of Famers somewhere on our roster or that both Renney and Tambellini aren't headed there.
If Stu drafts two Hall of Famers in the next draft Tambellini will start looking like a major genius. We already have an astonishing range of prospects and young talent. Drafting 4th OV doesn't seem like a huge reach from where we are now, which is what the 1973-1974 Islanders managed. Get two more kids who are good enough to step right in and play regularly in the NHL and we will start racing up the standings.
Dennis: Classic. Last time I laughed that hard Lewis Black was beating up Glenn Beck about Nazi tourettes.
ReplyDeleteColin: Will do!
ReplyDeleteVor
ReplyDeleteI never agree with DSF
Not rarely.........NEVER!!
The Isles had the meanest MF on their backbend.
Art is absolutely right Potvin DID believe he was better than Orr. Not true but he did believe it.
They had the toughest 1C center in the last 30 years. After a 7 game series checking Trottier, Kesler would take a week off. He would get blown up twice in that 7 game series by Trottier and there was always Potvin. Lurking. Think Phanuef only a really really smart AND really really mean Phanuef! Think Scott Stevens only a much better player and meaner
You believe Goring was washed up. You are wrong. Can't even begin to explain how wrong. You also probably think Bob Gainey had marginal value. You would be right unless the idea was to win. Then guys like Goring, Gainey and Horcoff have disproportionate value
We lack Shea Weber, Carey Price, Brad Marchand and Andrew Ladd. Other than that.........very similar teams. WTF?
Once again,
ReplyDeleteThe Other John, I never compared us to Nasville. I compared us to the 1973-1974 Islanders. While they had Potvin they did not have Trottier at that point yet you keep bringing him up to prove I'm wrong. I can't imagine why. I also never mentioned Gainey.
I didn't say we had Potvin, but at the point I am talking about the best Islanders forward was Billy Harris and we have a bunch who are better. The total Islanders defence consisted of Potvin, Lewis and prey for the lights to go out until they were ready to come back out. They had great goaltending and we don't. But they sucked at forward and we don't. We have no super D-Man but overall we are deeper than they were.
Islanders in 1973-1974 had only a handful of prospects on the way. The next draft and some clever trades turned them into a powerhouse. However, at the this point we are probably the better team. Remember we are only dealing with the 1973-1974 Islanders not the Stanley Cup team or any other year. Right now we are comparable.
I don't believe Goring was washed up I simply said that he was on the downhill side of his career, that is simply a statment of fact. That it was plain dumb luck that he had two of the greatest playoff years in back to back seasons and made Bill Torrey look like a genius rather than the smuck he would have looked like if Goring had settled right into the .48 points per playoff game he averaged for the next four years. Even the .6 he averaged before wouldn't have taken the Islanders to the promised land. He went all Pisani, two years in a row. His shooting percentage was probably off the scale.
Trade for a defencemen? Hopefully. Doubt it.
ReplyDeleteThat list of goalies Woodguy posted is interesting. Bet they wait til next year when RNH is ready and we get ANOTHER top pick after we get destroyed this season.
I really think the dirt of Eager is gonna help this team. Watch those kids skate this year.
Vor
ReplyDeleteMy reference to Weber, Price Marchand and Ladd was to what we don't have. An elite D man. An elite goalie. An elite shit disturber and a big 2 way elite fwd that can anchor your 2nd line. Not sure the Gillies equivalent but we sure don't have him either
You suggest we are on that track. There is no evidence of that assertion. None. We have some nice pieces. There is more evidence that we are on track for the 09/10 Islanders......nice pieces but not an elite team. Nor a generational dynasty
Jesus man quitting digging
Vor
ReplyDeleteI keep rereading your email and am shaking my freaking head. We have more depth? We have more prospects coming.? 4 names: Trottier, Gillies, Bossy and Persson in 73/74 they are coming
Now clearly you know our roster better than I do but who in the world do you think on our roster/draft picks do you see filling those spots? That's 2 1st ballot HOFers. a very unique HOFer in Gillies and a prototypical PP specialist on the back end
As a fan I hope you are right but do not think so
There really is less shame in saying...... I Fold.
In 73-74 none of Persson, Gilles, Trottier, Bossy, or Tonelli had been drafted so they could hardly have been prospects could they?
ReplyDeleteYou keep confusing your knowledge of what would happen with my point about the two teams, one as it was in 1973-1974 the other as it is now. You keep insisting on looking ahead and comparing the current Oilers not to the 1973-1974 islanders but to your memories of the team they were in 1979-80. I didn't compare those two teams but you keep insisting I have. Doesn't matter how many times you say I did, nor how many ways you say it. I am only comparing the current Oilers team to the 1973-1974 Islanders not some team made up of guys who hadn't been drafted in 1973 or earlier.
I assume you do this because you can't admit that Tambellini might be on the right track because you have invested so much energy in hating the man.
I suggest you go back and actually look at the roster of the 1973-1974 Islanders and the prospects whose rights they owned at that time and then offer up some cogient argument for why I am wrong rather than continuing slagging me with ad hominem attacks backed entirely by faulty reasoning.
Vor
ReplyDeleteIf your point is: the Oilers can improve their points this year over last year. Great. Agreed. As a 2 time 30th overall team that really should not be too hard to do. Although if we don't do it, we will be told it is because of injuries.
If the team that you use to make that argument is the 73/74 Isles, that seems very puzzling. You could use any one of 20 or more teams for a single season turnaround and somehow went back 37 years to the Isles? Why not use the 08-09 Colorado Avalanche: 15th overall in West, 69points, 199 GF, 256 GA. In 09/10 Avs had 95 pts, 244 GF and 233GA. They improved 26 pts (and in playoffs) in 1 year with + 45 GF and -23GA. Last years TBL? Did you want other more recent examples?
Is it because that is not what you have used the Islander argument for? Were you are trying to project that the current Oilers have the same foundation as that superb Islander team? "We too can be great"
Lots of teams have improved one season over the next, even noticeably but do not move on to greatness. It certainly seems that the Isles greatness is what you you want as the comparator. The problem you have with making that point, along with slagging Butch Goring who was an absolutely superb player, is that the Islanders had elite players at all of the necessary places. Top 3 goalie, check. Top Defenseman in game, check. Elite first line, check. Big, strong, tough wingers, check. We do not.
We have some young and intriguing players on the wing position. And the top pick in this past years draft. Thereafter? We have a gap between where we are and where you want to project them.
You attribute to me some animus towards Tambellini. I disagree. You need all sorts of skills to be a successful GM,particularly in the salary cap world. I love what Oilers are doing in the amateur draft. I also like what they are doing with amateur and minor pro development. Unfortunately that is only about 40% of the equation.
I have not seen anything to believe they have a plan on salary cap management - Souray, Khabby, Stortini, JDD, Brule, R Jones. Derek Zona at Copper and Blue also tried to use a rough tool to rate effective Gm's. We did not do too well in that analysis: http://www.coppernblue.com/2011/8/27/2388259/2010-11-nhl-marginal-cap-efficiency
Nor have I seen strategic lateral hires (trades) to make the team noticeably better. Probably hardest and it is what the best GM's do very very well, I think you call it luck, is to identify the ceiling of young players and try to use surplus talent in one area to buttress other areas of the roster.
@ the other John.
ReplyDeleteAgree completely.
And one more thing.
Identify a window to win when you have younf players outperforming their entry level contracts.
At Tambellini's glacial pace of rebuilding, he's blowing that very important factor in a cap world.