From Helene Elliott: NHL mediator unable to resolve dispute between Kings, Oilers over Colin Fraser's fitness. Next step is here. Helene Elliott is the best source on this story. Actually she's the only source on this story except for the times when Dean Lombardi goes postal.
This is getting interesting now. I don't remember the last time a trade went this route, but I wonder if the option of reversing the trade is a possible outcome.
THAT would be difficult for both teams to endure.
of course the mediator didn't work. why on earth would edmonton elect to compromise when the trade is complete and it is quite possible that it'll be found that the oilers did nothing wrong?
ReplyDeleteit'll have to get to the point where the NHL says "mediate or the trade will be reversed" before the the oilers have any incentive to re-negotiate.
is colin fraser's 825,000 one year cap hit really so big a deal that the kings are going to risk having the trade reversed on them?
LA currently has 9 million in cap space, and Drew Doughty to re-sign. that becomes a whole lot more difficult, neigh impossible if Smyth's contract ends up going back.
i mean .. what the hell is lombardi thinking?
Striatic: you've got it exactly. LA cannot afford Smyth's salary so they can't afford to see this trade reversed. Smyth's NMC means that even if the trade was reversed, he could force LA to trade him right back to Edmonton - a trade LA would have to make given the cap situation.
ReplyDeleteI'd love to know the exact ins and outs of the situation regarding disclosure of medical information but I suspect we'll never get good, unbiased information.
A lot of Kings fans don't like Lombardi.
ReplyDeleteEither he's been channeling his uncle Vince, or else Lombardi's merely showing all the signs of a desperate GM.
The trade won't be reversed.
ReplyDeleteLombardi has stated (thru Helen) that he would accept the Oilers taking back Fraser until he is healed up or would just not take Fraser at all and settle for the 7th rounder.
Which of course makes you wonder why he cares at all.
Well the LAK need to sign Doughty and no doubt want to have room to add some contracts at the deadline. I can understand why a GM would want to have as much roster and cap freedom as possible.
ReplyDeleteSeems like a whole lot of effort for minimal gain on Lombardi's part. And he runs a big risk in looking like a guy you can't do business with. Geez, Dean, sometimes you lose a deal.
ReplyDeleteMaybe he's a 'principle of the thing' kind of guy? I dunno, it seems a lot of fuss for something (someone) that nobody cares a lot about.
ReplyDeleteHarsh to say about a good guy off the ice, too.
Well the LAK need to sign Doughty and no doubt want to have room to add some contracts at the deadline. I can understand why a GM would want to have as much roster and cap freedom as possible.
ReplyDeleteAnd it is the $100K from Fraser being out for one month (at most) when the season starts that is holding this back.
There's more to it than that and a whole lot less too. If the mediator cannot resolve, than I have to believe that either the trade will stand or Louise is wrong.
And I don't believe for the life of me that she's in error. There is nothing to mediate from the Oil pov, no wonder it failed.
I'd always bet on Louise being right. :-)
ReplyDeleteFraser has value and could be a useful player. He didn't play well for the Oilers this past season but that doesn't mean there isn't an NHL career there. Lots of guys with similar skill sets have enjoyed careers as solid role players.
Terry Crisp might be an old timey example.
What is Fraser's "skillset" exactly?
ReplyDeleteAgreed he could bloom like Crisp later in his career, but that ticking clock has already been swallowed by a croc and it might cost Fraser a limb to get it back.
That said, Lomardi's argument is on cap space which seems to be a non-argument. I can't see Bettman wanting to set a precedent by reversing a trade. Kings will lose and the bigger the deal Lombardi makes of this the worse he is going to look.
I don't have any idea what the Kings are trying to accomplish. Tambi seems to come across that he doesn't really care if he has Smyth or not and the Kings are in a bad spot if he comes back to them because he'll be a pretty pissed dude and he's going to veto any other trade they can come up with.
ReplyDeleteSome of you may remember Mike Sirotka. For those that don't (from his Wiki page):
ReplyDeleteAfter the 2000 season, he was traded to the Toronto Blue Jays with Kevin Beirne and Brian Simmons for Matt DeWitt and David Wells in a deal that would infamously become labeled by White Sox General Manager Kenny Williams as "Shouldergate", as Sirotka would never pitch again, labeled "damaged goods" by then-Toronto GM Gord Ash. Ash believed that Williams did not turn over all information pertaining to Sirotka's shoulder. Ash later appealed the trade to MLB Commissioner Bud Selig, but Selig refused to overturn the trade.
Yeah I remember how shitty Ash was. Thing is that's that a different sport with different rules and what not.
ReplyDeletelol @ this rumour that the Jets wanted MPS for Bogo.
Wait, what's Louise saying about all this?
ReplyDeleteAnd when is the Nylander grievance going to be heard?
I say:
ReplyDeleteCancel the trade and offer sheet Doughty.
MC
ReplyDeleteLouise pointed out that the NHL had some time ago set up a central medical database accessible by all teams that essentially removes injury appeals from trades.
Tyler: On Saturday, July 9, Louise posted the following-
ReplyDeleteGood day,
"The NHL last season ('06-'07) mandated that its 30 teams begin using a new computer program created by Toronto's Sutton Medical Technologies Ltd. to digitize the medical files of the league's 700-odd players, and those playing in the minors."
I found the above article during Souray's first season-on-the-shelf as an Oiler, and used it to argue that KLowe had to know about 44's injury history. Later I used the words "eyes wide open or willfull ignorance" when discussing Tambellini's culpability in Khabibulin's durability.
Last week I sent an email to Jason Gregor suggesting that he check with his sources in the NHL to confirm or refute the above info. He had it confirmed by 2 sources that the database does exist and is required reading for all GM's making trades, as the NHL has little interest in mediating playground squabbles.
Eyes wide open or willfull ignorance for everyone.
;-D
L8r
Louise
Tyler: Link is here
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/306581
Did someone tell Lombardi about this database? Because he is going to be seriously angry when he finds out about it.
ReplyDeleteverification - dikownsn - a fairly apt description of the current situation vis a vis Tambi and Lombi.
http://www.thestar.com/iphone/Sports/article/306581
ReplyDeleteIceDragoon said...
Good day,
"The NHL last season ('06-'07) mandated that its 30 teams begin using a new computer program created by Toronto's Sutton Medical Technologies Ltd. to digitize the medical files of the league's 700-odd players, and those playing in the minors."
I found the above article during Souray's first season-on-the-shelf as an Oiler, and used it to argue that KLowe had to know about 44's injury history. Later I used the words "eyes wide open or willfull ignorance" when discussing Tambellini's culpability in Khabibulin's durability.
Last week I sent an email to Jason Gregor suggesting that he check with his sources in the NHL to confirm or refute the above info. He had it confirmed by 2 sources that the database does exist and is required reading for all GM's making trades, as the NHL has little interest in mediating playground squabbles.
Eyes wide open or willfull ignorance for everyone.
;-D
L8r
Louise
Saturday, July 9, 2011 6:39:00 PM MDT
Wow, Cellphonz is slow. Got me butt scooped.
ReplyDeleteMr. Google. He's golden.
ReplyDeletei think lombardi should have known better, but what use is the database if the information being entered into it, presumably by team doctors, is incorrect?
ReplyDeletethe issue here, presumably, is that the oilers had entered one injury into the database and upon having their own doctor look at the guy, the kings found several injuries beyond what was in the database.
ReplyDeleteand yeah, reversing the trade and then putting an offer sheet out on Doughty would be hilarious, but i doubt Doughty would sign here and the price in picks would be too steep.
ReplyDeletestill, hilarious.
Striatic: Doughty wouldn't want to play here.
ReplyDeleteBut he'd accept just to get what he wants (Money).
In the end of all the Kings would rush to trade Smyth back, and all we would have done is fuck the Kings more.
$825K divided by 6.
ReplyDeleteSo a month while Fraser malingers.
Another month with fibromyalgia.
Another month with post-traumatic stress disorder.
And another month with sleeping sickness.
That's what, $560K?
If that puts a dent in LA's cap, they need to play better.
The Oilers should flat-out agree to reverse the trade.
Then tender Doughty an offer just to shove it up Lombardi's ass.
ReplyDeleteI found the above article during Souray's first season-on-the-shelf as an Oiler, and used it to argue that KLowe had to know about 44's injury history. Later I used the words "eyes wide open or willfull ignorance" when discussing Tambellini's culpability in Khabibulin's durability.
You didn't need a database to know that Souray was part of the Glass Menagerie in his pre-Oilers days and that Khabibulin was a broken down (likely) drunk who the Hawks tried to give away nearly from the day they got him.
Cripes, if Slowe and that numnuts they hired from Vancouver didn't know that, neither of them is fit to run a rotisserie hockey team, much less on that thinks Edmonton taxpayers should build their company a new factory.
Another month with fibromyalgia.
ReplyDeleteIs that what he has?
Yeah, what striatic said. The database doesn't seem to be the issue here, as Lombardi is referring to information that wasn't there.
ReplyDeleteI wonder how poor Fraser feels in all of this. I bet it sucks the be the proverbial bag of pucks.
ReplyDeleteI felt bad for Fraser, then remembered his 850K salary that's guaranteed while he recovers from injury.
ReplyDeleteRecalling when I was out of it for 3 months while my immune system did its best impression of the French along the Marginot a few years back, and the impact on my wages, cured me of that.
Brule is the guy I feel bad for, the type of difficulty he is alleged to be going through is not something you want aired out in public.
Lombardi has been completely callous in his discretion throughout this process. The NHL really needs to send a message and dole out some sort of disciplinary action. No rinky dink fine either, take pick or something from the Kings.
I think the point would be that the Oilers doctors would have updated the information at some point and then at a later point the new maladies were identified.
ReplyDeleteIt perhaps gives a timeline for the new injury and allows someone outside the argument to evaluate whether or not the injuries could have developed after the final mandated checkup for Fraser.
Maybe they could compromise?
ReplyDeleteKatz can ship Lombardi a pallet of Rexall Xanax.
Slightly offtopic, I love the picture of Frank Costanza.
ReplyDeleteobberi - what the Oilers pulled off Lombardi trades.
Teubert had a wrist injury which hindered his chance to make the Kings lineup last fall.
ReplyDelete"I broke the wrist, the scaphoid bone, and they misdiagnosed it. I kept playing and it kind of screwed it up," said Teubert, who wound up playing 59 games for Manchester, the Kings' AHL affiliate.
I can't believe the GM who just traded ^^this guy^^ TO THE OILERS is complaining about an undiscovered medical issue. I've been trying to get my head around it, and I just can't.
Hey, Lombardi: Shit happens!! Even on your watch, asshole.
His behaviour throughout this has been disgracefully unprofessional.
"I can't believe the GM who just traded ^^this guy^^ TO THE OILERS is complaining about an undiscovered medical issue. I've been trying to get my head around it, and I just can't."
ReplyDeleteJust a guess, but maybe because he was healthy at the time of the trade? And remains healthy today.
Good day,
ReplyDeleteI'd always bet on Louise being right. :-)
You might lose on occasion, Lain, but I think not this time.
That email to Gregor was self-serving. As you well know, I'm a bit of a sports radio junkie. I listen for the interviews and can usually tune out the phone-in and filler time, but the noise around this issue was just too loud and ridiculous.
I wish there had been more interest from the msm on the medical database, but the only thing I have ever found that even mentions it, is that article. Meh, par for the course... always dance to my own drummer and often find things interesting that most others wouldn't think about once, let alone twice.
I am old, and blessed to have amassed a delightfully eclectic mix of friends and acquaintances. I asked a few questions and learned that the medical database was running smoothly in the '08-'09 season.
At that time, every NHL team was responsible for submitting medical procedures/treatments and daily trainers' logs to each player's file in the database throughout the season, and had to be current at season's end. Summer updates were "as available/as needed" till pre-season when off-season procedures/treatments were entered. GMs had the right and obligation to request a medical exam prior to completing a trade for a player that was known to be injured at the end of the season.
I suppose the NHL could have changed things up in the last two years, but I doubt it.
L8r
Louise