We've seen these young men mature, some of them reaching the highest peaks in the game's history, others fading from the game but never forgotten.
This photo of Mark Messier and Kevin McLelland is courtesy Steve's Oilers website, which offers a delightful trip through the past and serves as a valuable memory bank for dates and times. Truly a labor of love and well worth the visit.
It was a big week in Oilers land this week. Historic signings (RNH) and subtle ones that could be important in hindsight (Danis). Another angry GM on the left coast and a rookie development camp devoted to improving the kids skill levels.
Summer in the city? It's still on ice.
--
Nation Radio is on Team 1260 at noon today. Your calls and emails are very important nationradio@theteam1260.com because the guest list was put together before the Lombardi waves. So please send in questions and comments and I promise to read them. Scheduled guests:
- Former NHLer Brian Benning, who played with the Oilers and several other teams during his career. We'll talk about the draft, free agency, the difficulty of playing his position and I might mention that Jari Kurri crosscheck too.:-)
- Lisa McRitchie from the Copper and Blue. She's been on fire lately at the C&B, giving excellent information about the draft and the development camp. We'll talk about those issues and more.
- Kent Wilson from Flames Nation. We'll talk about the Flames in free agency, the draft and both of us will predict where the Oilers and Flames finish in 11-12.
- Steve Serdachny from the Edmonton Oilers. I'll ask him about his power and skills program and the results expected from it. Early word is that Anton Lander has gained a step since one year ago.
Continuation from the other thread...
ReplyDeleteI should add that it is highly unusual for health information to be released to the public about anyone, no less an NHL player whose employability may be directly related to the perceived fragility of the player based on the medical condition. The public release of a potential "blood disorder" may very well impact, if not eliminate any future NHL contracts Fraser might have received. I seriously doubt he or his agent would have consented to the release of this information due to the multimillion dollar personal impact.
Rather than a blood disorder, more likely is that there is one blood test is a little out of the normal range (if you test enough things, eventually you find something a little beyond two standard deviations, but it usually doesn't mean anything).
A free agent needs teams to be confident of his health, and I suspect we will hear from the Fraser camp at some point (probably once he has been bought out) that his health is fine.
I suspect embellishment from Lombardi. I doubt Lombardi has the written consent required to release the medical information he has released.
Ashley: Which makes twice that Lombardi has released information about Oiler players (although in this case Fraser is currently a King).
ReplyDeleteIs this something the NHLPA might want to address?
I think it's touching that everyone is so concerned about the information control procedures in Los Angeles. Makes for a fine distraction from the issue relevant to Oiler fans.
ReplyDeleteTyler: I don't think that's true at all. The previous thread has a lot of information that speaks to the issues involving the Oilers.
ReplyDeleteI should add that it is highly unusual for health information to be released to the public about anyone, no less an NHL player whose employability may be directly related to the perceived fragility of the player based on the medical condition. The public release of a potential "blood disorder" may very well impact, if not eliminate any future NHL contracts Fraser might have received.
ReplyDeleteSomeone should tell TSN and ESPN and countless other sites that they need to pull down their Injury pages and reports.
Any health issue would have to be disclosed to a future NHL employer and they usually request medicals anyway. Hiding health issues from teams is generally frowned upon (although it is done).
This looks like a complete non-issue to me.
Great information Ashley, thanks for the expert opinion!
ReplyDeleteLT: If the NHLPA got involved, wouldn't it have to start with a player grievance? I don't know that one would come from Brule. This may sound harsh given that he may be struggling with concussion-related depression (a vicious condition), but it was also in his financial interest to avoid a situation where he would've been bought out.
As for Fraser, assuming the deal isn't voided (and it doesn't look like it will be), he's a King for the next year and might have some interest in just keeping his mouth shut to appease his new employers.
spOILer: Would you consider the Brule issue to be similar?
ReplyDeleteLombardi might have summed it best himself:
ReplyDeleteAnd people used to think maybe I was crazy but when I was scouting for Philly,
With how this has played out and remembering the accusations against Murphy,Lombardi may be correct.
Cactus: Yes, that seems reasonable (coming from the player).
ReplyDeleteI wonder if the Kings HAVE approached the NHL? I thought it would have been done previous to going public, but according to a recent tweet by Helene Elliott that may not be the case:
"and engaging the league is what he said he'd do next. and yes, we're talking hockey in july. it's year-round now"
8 hours ago via web
I suspect players waive their rights to health privacy in their SPCs. Considering just about every single NHL player has had this privacy infringed.
ReplyDeleteOkay, so that's a non-starter.
ReplyDeleteI'm getting ready for the Nation Radio show at noon, and one of the things I've tied to this is the Sheldon Souray quote about the team wanting him to play 5 months into a 6 month rehab. The exact quote:
"I got challenged by management on the very first day of my first training camp. The very first day," he said. "They said, ‘When are you going to play?’ I said, ‘I have a six month (shoulder) injury and I’m at five months.’ But I played."
LT - The report on Brule's condition came from Darren Dreger (as noted Here. Is it possible that many people in the media knew about the condition and this was just Dreger letting it slip inadvertently or intentionally?
ReplyDeleteNot that I want to give Lombardi the benefit of the doubt here, but I think its important to note that it was not the LA press that reported the injury.
Anyway, apparently the trade involving Foster included the 'as is' clause meaning that legal action is probably not likely to be an option for Lombardi.
With that said, the whole incident doesn't help the Oilers or the Kings in any way as both GMs may be seen as a little less trustworthy than they were a few weeks ago.
LT: if Lombardi is still planning to go to the NHL with this, then he may be suffering from his own head injury. The NHL (and just about every other sports league, for that matter) absolutely hate having their dirty laundry air and generally punish those who do so. If there's any ambiguity to this case (and from this outsider's perspective, there would appear to be some), then Lombardi blowing up about it to the media does not help his case.
ReplyDeleteOh, and have a good show. :)
Cactus: Thanks. There is precedent for it, however. The link below (sorry, I can't link it properly) tells the story of two such trades made by the Oakland Seals.
ReplyDeletehttp://news.google.com/newspapers?id=fz1mAAAAIBAJ&sjid=CYsNAAAAIBAJ&pg=1641,4426020&dq=gary+smith+hawks+oakland&hl=en
Souray didn't say that management told him to play. He said they asked him when he was going to play. Two very different things.
ReplyDeleteRead what he said carefully.
Why wouldn't management ask a player who they left alone all summer rehabbing on the frist day of camp when he would be ready to play?
What representations did Souray and his agent make to the Oilers when he was signing his contract about his availability to play?
LT
ReplyDeleteThe Brule thing seems weird because he was the property of another team, but we certainly didn't hear Tambi screaming bloody murder over the disclosure, so again, I'd bet it is completely a non-issue.
Nor has the NHLPA said boo.
So this is a non-issue thus far for the League, the Union, the Teams, the Players, their Agents and the respective city's media. No one has said anything about privacy.
Ashley is the only person anywhere I've seen with a privacy concern about player health. I'm not sure why. It is quite evident they have little to none.
Thanks for the link LT - the Seals were a little before my time.
ReplyDeleteI don't know that it completely changes what I was trying to argue though. I've said in previous posts, that Lombardi may have an argument here but (as Ashley has also suggested) it's not likely to be 100%, slam dunk, cut and dry. If it's not, he's doing himself no favours by spluttering to the media and praising Bernie Madoff. A real difference from the seemingly calm public tone of the Seals' GM in that article.
From the Sheldon Souray side of things, I would think there is a story that could warrant some analysis. Some of things he has made reference to, that we initially balked, appear to have some truth. Could it be the that our management team were covering their own asses when Souray became public enemy #1, then banished to hockey purgatory? If Souray breaks his silence now that he's a "star" and lends credibility to Lombardi's allegations, Steve Tambellini might look like a complete managerial misfit.
ReplyDeleteBoth Lombardi and Souray are/were being bullies to try to get what they want through intimidation what they cannot get through negotiation or by the rules.
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't Tambellini's fault that Souray got a concussion, which prevented Tambellini from finding a trade partner.
It wasn't Tambillini's fault that a couple of weeks before the trade deadline, Souray goes and breaks his hand in a fight.
And well, Souray found out last year, that he was untradeable.
And he earned more money playing in Hershey last year than would have earned playing in the NHL. No escrow in the minors.
Was out for supper with another couple last night and commented that MSM was dead ass silent on the Ryan Smith trade until Oilers figured out what they were gonna do. Stories followed their lead. Cautious interest. Friend expressed surprise. Yesterday Helen Elliot LA Times article is posted. Variety of info on the net, and yet I did not see a word in local press.
ReplyDeleteNot noteworthy? Or have MSM not gotten the Oilers view on what should be written.
Last night we were also lamenting Dan Barnes "promotion" to the editorial board
Why not just trot out the documents where Oilers traded Fraser "As is, where is". Show them to the league office, and to the local press. Believe that would be a complete answer and would shut Lombardi up completely. It would show that Lombardi knew the entire time he was trading for damaged goods, or he should have suspected that when he saw Oilers sending him AIWI.
Do not think it is a privacy issue. Fraser is not able to hide his physical condition when he gets a new contract. Any contract would, presumably, be subject to his passing a complete physical. That is not uncommon.
Disagree with some here, worse part of this is not that there is a difference of opinion by our/their doctors. It is that in a closed trading system (29 other GM's) you cannot afford to have anyone question your ethics. Lombardi is alleging that not once but twice we tried to slip damaged to them and had to be caught it in both instances.
Expect Oil will release AIWI documents and Lombardi will have a whole lot of splainin to do
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ReplyDeleteWhat representations did Souray and his agent make to the Oilers with regards to his health when he signed his contract?
ReplyDeleteSouray has NOT said anything about that.
TOJ
ReplyDeleteYou don't give satisfaction to a bully.
For an NHL trade to occur, is there NOT a conference call with both teams and a league official, where the league official goes over the transaction terms item for item so there is absolutely no misunderstanding.
Tambellini did NOT try to pass off injured players to the Kings. Brule's condition was disclosed to the Kings. And Tambellini was completely clear in the media that no deal had occured, while the Kings were leaking like a sieve that the Brule deal had happened, like the Flames deal was about to happen.
The Oilers gave the league and the Kings Brule's medical records, and the Kings and the league spent hours discussing whether it was possible for Brule to be bought out.
And with Fraser, again, the Oilers were clear that Fraser was coming off an broken ankle injury and was expected to be cleared soon, and that if the Kings wanted Fraser he had to be taken "as is".
The Kings accepted the terms because they wanted to get rid of the Smyth cap hit before FA day.
All they are trying to do now is renegotiate a valid trade after the fact using bullying tactics in the press.
Spoiler - Tambellini had a press conference and indicated great displeasure about the leaks regarding both players health issues ( right around the time of the trade)
ReplyDeleteTOJ
ReplyDeleteThe Sun had it this morning.
book¡e,
ReplyDeleteHave you got anything more substantial than that? Actual comments? I'm having difficulty finding anything in print other than references to Lombardi negotiating in public.
Was a formal complaint made? Why not? Did the League or the Union step in? Why not? Did Brulé's agent file anything against Lombardi? Why not?
I expect because this is a non-issue everywhere but this thread.
spOILer
ReplyDeleteMe bad, read hard copy of Journal. Electronic copy of Sun sports on IPad Did not see it
TOJ
ReplyDeleteThe Sun had it this morning.
The Journal too.
Duchy
ReplyDeleteWere you referring to 1" at the bottom of Matty's story on Deslaurier? Which then dealt with Cogliano's RFA hearing.. What was the Oiler comment on the LATimes story? Who did Matty speak to? Lowe, ST? Did he speak to Lombardi?
Helen Elliot
The level of reporting that passes for journalism in Edmonton is astonishing.
I can tell you that part of the issue is availablility. I'm trying to track down people involved or on the periphery to speak on the issue and it hasn't been easy.
ReplyDeleteLikely easier for Matheson than me, but there you go. :-)
LT
ReplyDeleteExpect that explains scarcity of info this a.m. Story broke last evening Which means we will get fulsome report tomorrow, right?
One aspect of the Smyth deal was that Ryan asked to speak to the Oilers directly. He clearly did not trust Lombardi's word and wanted to hear what the Oilers intended directly from them. Those Smyth to the Flames rumors became worthless once that happened, and Lombardi was pissed that he lost even that edge in the negotiation.
ReplyDeleteHmm...the Kings are complaining about getting the short straw on a trade with the Oil. I seem to recall a previous Oilers/Kings trade for which they definitely got the better end of the deal. So much so that certain folk (myself included) still refer to it as a sale not a trade. How many injured Colin Frasers would we would need to dump on them to balance the scales? Googol?
ReplyDeleteSpoiler - June 30th video on the Oilers site there is a modest statement of displeasure about personal information coming out. I seem to remember a slightly more sharply worded statement - but I could be mistaken.
ReplyDeletebook¡e
ReplyDeleteSounds like a non-issue to me. The allegedly aggrieved party has said and done nothing about it. The owner of his rights has only expressed some displeasure. We know that injury lists are public. Why are we still talking about this?
Oilers' management covering themselves in glory once again. Selling damaged goods repeatedly is a little twist, normally they actively pursue other avenues of embarrassment. I suppose they have a major problem recognizing injuries and diagnosing them properly, so it does fit their MO.
ReplyDeleteNot that I really care about this whole Lombardi/Tambellini fracas, but it does add to the smoke around the trainer issue for the Oil. And I find it particularly galling to hear the management line on Souray being used to discredit the current issue.
ReplyDeleteSouray plainly indicated he had felt pressure to minimise his injury (as the quote above states) which to myself and others at the time made the high number of injuries and re-occurring injuries on the Oilers seem even more suspicious. And this was all under Tambellini's watch (I know the league doesn't give man-games lost data, but I am certain the Oil were in the top 10 for the last 2-3 years). Just because Tambellini had a couple of good days at the start of this month, doesn't erase the fact that he built (by accident and design) a bad hockey team, and showed a shocking disregard for communication both inside and outside the organisation throughout his tenure.
As a fan, I believe we have the right to connect the dots on issues that keep reappearing over the years and ask for some accountability from the team (recognizing full well they have no incentive to answer hard questions from fans).
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletespOILer,
ReplyDeleteGood point. The players may have to waive their right to health privacy as part of their NHL contracts. Yet you rarely hear about anything beyond the standard musculoskeletal injuries in public. For example, I happen to know of two players I met during my training who played with a chronic serious disease (they have since retired), yet that was never listed on their public injury reports. There are many players who suffer and are being treated for substance abuse (perhaps one of the most dreadful health ailments), yet only a few are ever publicized, and usually only once the player has hit rock bottom and needs to leave the team to enter the substance abuse program and hence requiring some sort of explanation to the fans. There are many other examples.
The release of Foster having a "blood disorder" and Brule having depression seem to be outside of typical injury disclosure, and I wonder if there is a health privacy waiver, if it is a limited waiver.
Regardless, this story is far from over. There is too much blood in the street for the Oilers and eventually Foster/Brule to not say something. We'll get more information at some point.
Ashley, agreed on the fact that there seems to be some unspoken rule on personal problems. Anything publicly embarassing, maybe, although we do get news on people entering substance abuse programs and issues like Pisani's colitis. Various colds, flus, appendicitis, mono, not just musculoskeletal issues get reported all the time. Surgeries get announced, sometimes even the surgeons. Rehab and recovery get reported on...
ReplyDeleteIt is pretty evident that players don't have a right to health privacy.
Anyway, this isn't a problem for the parties involved so I have no idea why it is for us.
ReplyDeleteThis is one of those perfect hot button issues that helps you identify who's wearing their Oilers footy pajamas every night. Are the Oilers untrustworthy or incompetent? There is no other reasonable explanation.
ReplyDeleteThere is no other reasonable explanation.
ReplyDeleteI never would have pegged you for a troll. Never.
I never would have pegged you for a troll. Never.
ReplyDeleteI personally am waiting for your alternative hypothesis. (again not that I really care which GM of a multi-million dollar entertainment company is the winner in a bickerfest)
magisterrex said...
ReplyDeleteOne aspect of the Smyth deal was that Ryan asked to speak to the Oilers directly. He clearly did not trust Lombardi's word and wanted to hear what the Oilers intended directly from them. Those Smyth to the Flames rumors became worthless once that happened, and Lombardi was pissed that he lost even that edge in the negotiation.
Have you got links to support these statements?
Anyway, this isn't a problem for the parties involved so I have no idea why it is for us.
ReplyDeleteHealth privacy aside, I guess my problem with it is that I don't think Fraser is being treated fairly. I think he is a pawn in Lombardi's PR scheme. I am guessing that Lombardi is embellishing something calling it a "blood disorder" to make it sound like the goods are severely damaged. I don't think Fraser makes that LA team in the best of health, and I think Lombardi already knows that. He already plans to buy him out once he can, and doesn't give a shit about Fraser's future employability as a professional hockey player and discloses something that may make a GM shy about even giving the guy a call, let alone getting to the team medical. It will be in Foster's best interest to clear the air (fouled by Lombardi) once he is allowed so that he can hopefully sign a free agent contract. If JFJ can get one, there is no reason Fraser can't.
The blood disorder might explain Brulé's strangely unhealthy season.
ReplyDeleteBar Qu said...
ReplyDeleteI never would have pegged you for a troll. Never.
I personally am waiting for your alternative hypothesis. (again not that I really care which GM of a multi-million dollar entertainment company is the winner in a bickerfest)
Magisterrex isn't capable of critical thinking when the Oilers are involved so I'll advance a theory from a poster over at C&B - Fraser's condition popped up since his last exam with the Oilers.
This could be reasonable. However, the Oilers did try to include Brule in the first place.
Don't why I was thinking Brulé and blood disorder above, please disregard.
ReplyDeleteThe allegedly aggrieved party has said and done nothing about it.
ReplyDeleteAre we treading on onerous onus? Man I hate it when people force me to proclaim myself an aggrieved party to protect myself from inference entitlement.
With regard to the attempt to trade Brule, we do know it took a team of NHL lawyers hours to determine that the trade couldn't proceed over a 'procedural' issue.
ReplyDeleteThe allegedly aggrieved party has said and done nothing about it. Are we treading on onerous onus? Man I hate it when people force me to proclaim myself an aggrieved party to protect myself from inference entitlement.
ReplyDeleteNo, we're not. We're looking for evidence that players have a right to health privacy, that being one avenue among the others mentioned that might provide such evidence. But like all the other avenues it has failed to do so.
spOILer said...
ReplyDeleteWith regard to the attempt to trade Brule, we do know it took a team of NHL lawyers hours to determine that the trade couldn't proceed over a 'procedural' issue.
Yes, but what was the procedural issue? Was it related to Brule's fitness or lack thereof and which team was responsible for the 'procedural' error?
Shirikov traded by Vancouver.... where's DSF again?
ReplyDelete//With regard to the attempt to trade Brule, we do know it took a team of NHL lawyers hours to determine that the trade couldn't proceed over a 'procedural' issue.//
ReplyDeleteThe discussion with the NHL was NOT whether the deal could proceed or not. Brule can be traded.
The discussion with the NHL was about whether if the Kings agreed to the deal, whether they would be able to buyout Brule. i.e. The Oilers disclosed everything to the Kings. They weren't pushing anything on Lombardi.
i.e. Brule cannot be bought out because of a procedural issue, but he most certainly can be traded.
ReplyDeleteDon't know for sure RQ, I wish we had more info, but either the Oilers or the Brulé camp seem culpable.
ReplyDeleteHowever due to the amount of brainpower involved, I think we could surmise that the issue might not have been evident.
My own theory is that Brulé blocked the trade. The depression thing seems pretty suspicious. Apologies to him if he's really suffering, but a guy out and about, picking up the Bono's of this world, doesn't seem clinically depressed. It's a difficult condition to verify, and it seems easily treatable. Tambellini seemed honestly blindsided by it.
And remember, it was the Kings who were in a rush to get a deal done, because they had to be in Toronto on July 1st to kiss Don Meehan's ring.
ReplyDeleteAnd to piggyback off Godot's point, the reason it took 4 lawyers and an entire evening to figure it out is because of the nature of Brule's injury. Because it seems (due to the leaks that Ashley is wisely criticizing) that Brule is suffering from a concussion-linked depression, it is not a simple question of whether he can play or not. Physically, it sounds like his body could hold up to the rigours of playing which is why the Oilers doctors cleared him to play. However, because he is suffering from a mental illness, he cannot necessarily be bought out.
ReplyDeleteClearly a complicated situation so let's stop making broad declarations of who is clearly in the right or wrong. It just makes people look silly.
Godot10, do you have links for that description of events? I haven't read that explanation.
ReplyDeleteThere's really only one reason he couldn't be bought out though. That's LTIR, so the Oilers were trying to trade damaged goods. Now did the Oilers disclose that Brule's injury was bad enough to be LTIR worthy?
When you have an anti-management attitude, you'll find all sorts of ghosts and goblins in the Oilers' woodwork (and C&B are hardly paragons of neutrality in this regard). I would be more comfortable accepting your dubious theory that Oilers management are either without integrity or stupid (or both), if not for:
ReplyDelete1. The league isn't getting involved.
2. Lombardi has a history of shooting his mouth, making dubious claims about others' integrity.
3. The Colton Teubert injury showed a different side to the L.A. medical staff's abilities.
4. The attempt by Lombardi to drive the deal with a media hammer.
5. Tambellini's complete silence when dealing with others' trade demands. No one knew Souray demanded to be traded until Souray made a media ass of himself.
6. Smyth's request to speak to the Oilers before accepting a trade to the Flames. Not much trust in Lombardi from Captain Canada.
Tambellini has carried himself with integrity during this entire process. I know I'd rather have him as the GM than Lombardi.
Don Meehan is the agent for Smyth, for Brad Richards, and for Doughty (I think too).
ReplyDeleteLombardi is just taking out his frustration with Meehan have him by the "%^$s on Tambellini.
Clearly a complicated situation so let's stop making broad declarations of who is clearly in the right or wrong. It just makes people look silly.
ReplyDeleteSo the Oilers were just unfortunate to not know the medical status of not one but two of the players? That's the working hypothesis here that everyone is comfortable with?
Wow.
Don Meehan is the agent for Smyth, for Brad Richards, and for Doughty (I think too).
ReplyDeleteLombardi is just taking out his frustration with Meehan have him by the "%^$s on Tambellini.
If this site had G+ I'd give this post a +1.
I'm reminded of a management retreat exercise I read about long ago, where all the retreatees are seated at an oval table to contest some issue, but each one is also given a secret agenda, and later they are shown the agendas and asked to guess which party had which agenda.
ReplyDeleteOne of the secret agenda items is to make the meeting end quickly. In the aftermath, everyone identifies this person as having the agenda to make the meeting run as long as possible. Usually this person behaves by jumping in and cutting people off at the slightest hint of digression. Surprise! This makes people more determined to jump back in.
It turns out the only way to make a meeting end quickly is to sit there and say nothing. You have to let the windbags play out unopposed (or be the guy wearing the most expensive gold watch).
I suspect public denials or stated aggreviences are similarly contradictory; sometimes even clarity is inflammatory.
There are people who enjoy Machiavellian polarization (girls get this out of their system in adolescence), and then there are people who feel they have better things to worry about, who just want to sit there and say nothing and let the distasteful matter blow over.
When people start ascribing implications to silence, the subtext is "you're my drama queen bitch". We've figured out this is a bad way to run our own lives, so we buy the hockey jersey instead.
But then, the players are supposed to know that this is what they signed up for, and that they mustn't disappoint.
Rivers: go back and read what others have actually written here.
ReplyDeleteAshley (someone with actual medical knowledge) has already informed us that it is quite unlikely that Fraser has a significant injury that the Oilers missed, but rather its an interpretation of the same data. Unless you have a better explanation for this or information that doesn't come from the mouth or mouthpiece of the aggrieved GM (Lombardi), you don't have much to stand on.
As for Brule, given that he seems to be suffering from depression, it is quite likely that while he could play, he may claim a disability exemption. This is not a situation restricted to hockey players. In fact, it sometimes comes up with emergency workers - they may be physically able to do their jobs, but mentally are not fit for duty. In the case of the NHL CBA, there's clearly a grey area here that had to be worked out. If it was such a simple issue, they would have solved this with one lawyer in an hour, not 4 lawyers in 10.
So please, stop throwing around these baseless assertions. If you have a problem with any of this logic, feel free to offer an actual, contrary explanation - not simply the rantings of an angry fan.
Magisterrex said...
ReplyDelete1. The league isn't getting involved.
That doesn't mean the Oilers handled this appropriately.
2. Lombardi has a history of shooting his mouth, making dubious claims about others' integrity.
I'm not aware of this history and he seems to be right here.
3. The Colton Teubert injury showed a different side to the L.A. medical staff's abilities.
Completely and utterly irrelevant. Not to mention that was a story propagated by Jim Matheson - not exactly a paragon of neutrality to use your words. He has been the Oilers' bag man for decades.
4. The attempt by Lombardi to drive the deal with a media hammer.
We don't know who leaked this deal. It may have been Meehan. It may have been Tambo if he was interested in Smyth all along.
5. Tambellini's complete silence when dealing with others' trade demands. No one knew Souray demanded to be traded until Souray made a media ass of himself.
Souray handled that wrong but everything he said was accurate. An excellent example of the Oilers' traditional lack of competency dealing with injuries. Thanks for bringing this up.
6. Smyth's request to speak to the Oilers before accepting a trade to the Flames. Not much trust in Lombardi from Captain Canada.
Also not remotely relevant. Furthermore, it's an example of Smyth doing due diligence and using his NMC appropriately.
Tambellini has carried himself with integrity during this entire process. I know I'd rather have him as the GM than Lombardi.
Yeah, we get it. You love to lose.
from the LA Times:
ReplyDeleteHowever, the Kings contend the Oilers didn't file the paperwork required to certify Brule's ability to play. Without that the Kings would be unable to shed his contract.
And this:
The Kings planned to waive or buy out Brule, who hasn't been procedurally cleared to play after suffering a concussion. Brule's cap hit is $1.85 million.
RiversQ: How so?
ReplyDeleteHe seems to have screwed up every major trade possible.
Cammalleri, Smyth, Purcell, Visnovsky, Boyle.
The only deal he seemed to get the upper hand on were the Jack Johnson deal and the original Smyth one.
Cactus said...
ReplyDeleteAshley (someone with actual medical knowledge) has already informed us that it is quite unlikely that Fraser has a significant injury that the Oilers missed, but rather its an interpretation of the same data. Unless you have a better explanation for this or information that doesn't come from the mouth or mouthpiece of the aggrieved GM (Lombardi), you don't have much to stand on.
All due respect to Ashley, but it is unlikely they know the particulars of this situation any more than you or I do.
As for Brule, given that he seems to be suffering from depression, it is quite likely that while he could play, he may claim a disability exemption. This is not a situation restricted to hockey players. In fact, it sometimes comes up with emergency workers - they may be physically able to do their jobs, but mentally are not fit for duty. In the case of the NHL CBA, there's clearly a grey area here that had to be worked out. If it was such a simple issue, they would have solved this with one lawyer in an hour, not 4 lawyers in 10.
Were the Oilers aware of Brule's condition before they tried to include him in a trade where he would be bought out? If not, why not?
So please, stop throwing around these baseless assertions.
You have not convinced me any of my assertions have been baseless.
Cammalleri, Smyth, Purcell, Visnovsky, Boyle.
ReplyDeleteI'm not so sure he screwed up all those deals. He got OK value for Visnovsky and he didn't give up much to get Smyth the first time and just wanted to dump him the second time.
Lombardi's not perfect but he has built some pretty good teams in SJ and LA. That's two more teams than Tambo has on his resume.
RiversQ: Smyth I said the 2nd time (Oil) and not the 1st (COL)
ReplyDeleteAs for Visnovsky, I think he's vastly underated.
The problem is that you develop a past. You can read the Souray interview and say "well, that's strange" but then 15 months later there's another story in the news.
ReplyDeleteIf you look to the past, you can see patterns forming. We don't have all of the news, but the Oilers at the very least have to be concerned with the optics
Ongoing medical issues surrounding the Oil is troubling. However most teams experience problems in the medical area and we all know of horror stories from outside the Sports World. It might be more indicative of our society's medical competence as a whole. Or it might not. It might be a real problem on this team. None of us are in a position to know for sure.
ReplyDeleteflamingpavelbure said...
ReplyDeleteAs for Visnovsky, I think he's vastly underated.
I dare say I know he's underrated. However, as far as quantity for quality deals go, that one wasn't too bad. He got two reasonably priced tried and true NHL players that could cover top nine and middle pairing minutes. That's not bad for a salary dump.
I suppose the mistake with Cammalleri was that he was paranoid about losing him to UFA after a year and I believe didn't like the RFA deal he was going to pay either. Getting just a first rounder for a full year of service is not enough. He probably could have got the same At the deadline that year.
RiversQ: I don't think it's a bad deal in terms of hockey. Simply market value.
ReplyDeleteI think marquee defencemen will always be a very hot commodity. And that you need to get one back, or a big forward in return as the Oil did.
All I'm saying is that I think, the Kings could have traded Vinovsky for something that had more value than them, and still get them in the end.
I know it can sound weird but I never look at a trade from a pure hockey stand point of view. That is unless it's glaringly stupid
(Colorado vs STL deal for exemple)
If you look to the past, you can see patterns forming.
ReplyDeleteSee doug gilmour!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteFrom the looks of things DL got took on the Penner trade, really like what I see in Teubert. If Penner doesn't perform this year the Kings fans will lynch DL for sure and he'll blame it on Edmonton and ST.
ReplyDeleteHe got two reasonably priced tried and true NHL players that could cover top nine and middle pairing minutes. That's not bad for a salary dump.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I recall, you absolutely loathed Matt Greene, and were also banging on the drum to trade Stoll.
They didn't save much money on the trade anyways. Greene was given an outrageous contract, and Visnovsky/Reasoner would be better value than Stoll/Greene.
Seriously, is this issue worth the effort being spent here to dissect, debate or debunk it?
ReplyDeleteNHL GMs trying to fob off injured players on other teams is as old as the league itself. If a Punch Imlach or Emile Francis had pulled this trick back in the day, it would have been celebrated as cunning management and winner-take-all brinkmanship.
On the internet though where everyone is either a doctor, lawyer or NHL GM or plays one on tv, no effort is spared to pick over the bones of a very dead issue. The trade is done. Lombardi can piss and moan all he wants. Nothing is going to change that. Rather than finding ways to criticize our GM (who ironically was being lauded over this deal scant days ago), I celebrate the fact he got the better of a rival and improved the local team in the process.
In a previous thread, someone suggested that those insistent on talking about Tom Gilbert trade proposals should confine their efforts to a similarly themed blog. I would suggest the same for those who's only stock and trade is suggesting Oiler management is incompetent in every facet of their being. What's next? Hey Jeff Tambellini just signed a deal in Switzerland. Why didn't his Dad sign him when the Oiler org clearly could use the depth? Maybe there's a bad father/son relationship there to be discussed ad infinitum. No shortage of potential conspiracy theories and opportunities to criticize Tambi's life skills there. Have at it armchair experts.
PunjabiOil said...
ReplyDeleteFrom what I recall, you absolutely loathed Matt Greene, and were also banging on the drum to trade Stoll.
I disliked Greene in the 05/06 playoffs but he did improve after that. He's a 4/5 type now by my estimation. I don't recall being interested in dealing Stoll after 05/06. Once the dismantling started happening I started clinging to any legit player they had that could play tougher minutes. You may remember this better than me.
And what new car did I buy?
They didn't save much money on the trade anyways. Greene was given an outrageous contract, and Visnovsky/Reasoner would be better value than Stoll/Greene.
Oh probably, but it's still not a total failure of a trade. They traded away the best player but they got actual contributors with track records in return.
They traded away the best player but they got actual contributors with track records.
ReplyDeleteI don't believe anyone shed a tear when Greene left. From what I recall, Greene's improvement really came after the trade, and he's still a very replaceable player and still has strong limitations.
Stoll had a pretty terrible year in 2007-2008 which lead to his trade. I recall Vic Ferrari indicating alot of it was due to bad luck, and in a sense he was right. That said, Stoll is probably a 2nd/3rd line centre at this point. Point totals of 39, 36, 41, 47, and 43 in the last 5 years. I recall having the view that we should trade him after 2005-2006 as his value would never be higher, and his inflated totals due to the powerplay points, which were among the NHL leaders in terms of % of total points.
It's much harder to replace a top pairing defenceman like Visnovsky than it is to replace a Matt Greene or Jarrett Stoll. Which raises the question - why make the deal in the first place?
The problem is that you develop a past. You can read the Souray interview and say "well, that's strange" but then 15 months later there's another story in the news.
ReplyDeleteIf you look to the past, you can see patterns forming. We don't have all of the news, but the Oilers at the very least have to be concerned with the optics
I find it very curious that Sheldon Souray is considered a credible witness in the court of public opinion. Steve Tambellini is by all accounts a decent, honest family man well respected in league circles despite the voluminous vilification of him on the internet. Kind of shows how little the latter behavior actually accomplishes doesn't it? Sheldon Souray is, if his actions are any indication of the man himself, a selfish, primadonna entitlement case. Oh yeah, he also had a short lived marriage to a glorified stripper. And his name is Sheldon.
Does Steve Tambellini make mistakes? Absolutely, he's human. Is he an evil puppet master, coercing players to hit the ice despite debilitating injuries, dumping damaged good on his GM peers, lacing his league communiques with anthrax, etc. I highly fucking doubt it.
The commentary on this blog is spot on when the focus is kept on the facts. When it moves into areas of soap opera supposition, it seems decidely less stellar.
Lee: Quite right. When I said "the Oilers must be concerned" what I really said was "Steve Tambellini kills puppies." Thanks for pointing it out.
ReplyDeleteGood?
RiversQ - I went through the archives
ReplyDeleteHere's what you had to say about the players in question
http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=3169215704443931360&postID=5564757872092508435
Personally, I think this is a decent deal. I think Greene is overrated and while I'm not sure the Oilers have a replacement for Stoll, it was always hard for me to get over his skating.
http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=3169215704443931360&postID=5564757872092508435
How fucking clueless can it get?
Greene sucked shit when he played with anyone besides MAB.
The numbers are damning.
I agree with Lee.
ReplyDeleteLT, your comments were certainly more veiled and not nearly as pointed as some of the outright character assassination evidenced elsewhere. I just find it very distasteful when these suppositions are so casually tossed around. Remember when this Souray issue first broke and some used it as an excuse to fling crap at the Oilers' longterm medical staff? A year later with a new staff and the team again had significant injury woes. It's a contact sport. Stuff happens.
ReplyDeleteCriticize a players' abilities on this site and you're challenged to support it with facts. Why isn't the same standard applied to those casting aspersions on the character of the team management with very little actual fact to support their conspiracy theories?
On a positive note, is it just me or do the Eskimo's unis look way better when they're soaking wet?
ReplyDeleteI agree with Lee too. All posters should stick to eviscerating Lowe and Tambellini with on-ice results for which there is plenty of evidence of mismanagement.
ReplyDeletePJO, I have no problem with anything I said back then. Greene was not good as an Oiler and I was never enamoured with Stoll but I thought he turned into a useful player before the deal. I don't think this is evidence of an inconsistent position on the Visnovsky trade. I don't think Lombardi got completely screwed on that deal as fpb suggested.
ReplyDeleteHeck, I actually gave Lowe credit for a decent deal back then. That's saying something for the paragons of neutrality.
Ashley (someone with actual medical knowledge) has already informed us that it is quite unlikely that Fraser has a significant injury that the Oilers missed, but rather its an interpretation of the same data.
ReplyDeleteTo clarify, I do not know the nature of Fraser's current injury status without seeing him myself and reviewing the imaging.
To reiterate, fractures are mostly treated by reviewing the patient's symptoms for steady improvement. Xrays are also used to ensure good alignment, but the bone will look broken on an xray long after it has healed (called radiographic lag). It is highly likely that this was how Fraser was "cleared" to play by the Oilers staff which is how 95% of fractures are dealt with.
MRI and CT can be used when there is something troubling about the history (persistent pain) or examination. I was speculating when I guessed that the Kings did a CT or MRI to evaluate the fracture, and found something troubling (a "cyst"??) that *may* prevent the bone from healing properly. They feel this requires surgery to fix in spite of minimal or perhaps even no symptoms (and I am guessing Foster is virtually asymptomatic since he was cleared to play/train....you can't clear anyone if they are still having significant pain no matter what the imaging shows). Cysts don't form at fracture sites, so I don't really understand what the advanced imaging showed since it being communicated in strange lay terms.
If the Oilers docs were shown this imaging, maybe they would agree that he needs surgery, maybe they wouldn't. I think he needs a third opinion since there is far too much at stake for the Kings politically to be considered a neutral opinion, and doctors are not immune to the politics within the organization they work. An unbiased, unaffiliated surgeon could settle the issue.
magisterrex said...
ReplyDeleteWhen you have an anti-management attitude, you'll find all sorts of ghosts and goblins in the Oilers' woodwork (and C&B are hardly paragons of neutrality in this regard). I would be more comfortable accepting your dubious theory that Oilers management are either without integrity or stupid (or both), if not for:
1. The league isn't getting involved.
2. Lombardi has a history of shooting his mouth, making dubious claims about others' integrity.
3. The Colton Teubert injury showed a different side to the L.A. medical staff's abilities.
4. The attempt by Lombardi to drive the deal with a media hammer.
5. Tambellini's complete silence when dealing with others' trade demands. No one knew Souray demanded to be traded until Souray made a media ass of himself.
6. Smyth's request to speak to the Oilers before accepting a trade to the Flames. Not much trust in Lombardi from Captain Canada.
Tambellini has carried himself with integrity during this entire process. I know I'd rather have him as the GM than Lombardi.
1) Yet
2) No he doesn't.Links?
3) What side?
4) Lombardi is responding to the questions posed by a competent and inquiring media team that covers the Kings, in contrast to the Pravda sycophants who cover the Oilers.
5) Nonsense. Souray quietly requested a trade from the Oilers TWO YEARS before the crap hit the fan.
I reported it here and elsewhere.
6) Now you're just making stuff up. Lombardi was blindsided by Smyth's trade request and graciously found him a soft landing.
7) I hope your Oilers' sleepers have a trap door.
PDO said...
ReplyDeleteShirikov traded by Vancouver.... where's DSF again?
Tofino.
Quite windy but the surfing is good.
Thanks for asking.
Lee,
ReplyDeleteconsidering you cite 'facts needed' as an excuse for attacking opposing positions, you sure don't provide a whole lotta facts to back up yours. I mean, I have a reputation for being a prude around here, but I don't know that I would ever bring up who a guy's ex-wife is (and her former profession) as a point of character assasination. Nor would I use unproven statements about the 'family values' quality of a GM to prove his honesty.
To prove my point, I might instead refer to past teamates of the player who defended his character and leadership qualities on tv (like I believe it was Peca did with Souray on TSN) or even point out numerous past employees who identified little or no communication from the GM who let them go (ie. Pat Quinn). Then I might build a case that perhaps since what happened to one player seemed to be repeated very recently, maybe there was something there. And if I felt this gave credence to the position I was advocating, I might feel a bit more secure than simply using the equivalent of 'nah, nah, you're not right' or something like that.
(I would spend more time digging up links to facts, but my 2yr old and I are watching Toy Story, which is a much more mature bit of entertainment than wading through this nonsense and I want to give better attention to it)
DSF: Lombardi had Smyth's trade request 2 months ago. Look it up. At the same time, look up why he got fined $50K for his comments on someone else's integrity. Hilarious comments, but you can do your own research, thanks.
ReplyDeleteTofino.
ReplyDeleteQuite windy but the surfing is good.
Thanks for asking.
Enjoy yourself. That is fabulous living and enjoying space.
Bar Qu, you can dress up your suppositions all you want, you still have nothing definitive (i.e. the whole story) and you never will.
ReplyDeleteMy overriding point is that it's a waste of time rumor mongering and floating character assassinations when we only see 1 side of the story. Your retort is I need more facts to support that conclusion? A complete waste of bandwidth. Go back to the kiddie movies now. Men talking.
Re. Procurement
ReplyDeleteI don't mind the moves Tambi has made recently. Of course, I'd like to see more moves, I think we all would. Rumour has it, and when I say rumour I mean Bra and Panties, that the Oil have attempted to improve in net. I'd say if they don't by season start, it's because they didn't like the options and they'll see how Khabby starts before making a desperate trade. They've covered their ass a bit too by making sure there's plenty in the org.
Her deadline twittering chirps they were looking for a defensive center to play with two bangers on the 4th line. Cogliano apparently has been shopped heavily, but they haven't found anything they like yet. To me that says one of RNH or Lander is going to make the team. And that it's unlikely Hartikainen does.
D would be nice to procure. She has a tweet back on draft day that the Oil were offered 8, 38, and Bogo for 1 & Gagner, IIRC. Getting a top-pairing-capable RHS is obviously gonna take something real. I speculate that if they can't find one by trade, they might be forced into sucking enough to get one in the draft.
But so far they've upgraded at defensive C, team toughness, hustle, experience and took a bigger bet on a project defenseman. They're steps in the right direction for a team in transition. The moves haven't cost them much and my only real concern with the past month is Smid's contract.
And if we accept the twittering, it sounds like the Oil know where they still need to improve too.
I mean besides sick bay.
LT,
ReplyDeleteI'm not in Edmonton, so didn't catch the show, the Serdachny component...
Was there any talk about the skating ability of any of the Oilers, specifically Teubert and Barker? Gagner?
spOILer: No, we talked in general terms and then had time for only two names I'd been tipped on. We discussed those names, as (according to several people I spoke to) those two players were exceptional.
ReplyDeleteOh, and those two players were RNH and Lander.
ReplyDeletemagisterrex said...
ReplyDeleteDSF: Lombardi had Smyth's trade request 2 months ago. Look it up. At the same time, look up why he got fined $50K for his comments on someone else's integrity. Hilarious comments, but you can do your own research, thanks.
There is no evidence Smyth requested a trade "two months ago". None.
Lombardi was fined for questioning the NHL's officiating.
He's hardly on an island there.
And there's the money quote from Elliot's article...
" Lombardi also said Tim Leiweke, the chief executive of the Kings’ parent company, AEG, tried to broker a settlement but the Oilers have not responded to the Kings’ requests for further discussions.
“Tim has made several overtures to try and settle this in a fair manner to put the deal back where it’s supposed to and we’ve gotten no response,” Lombardi said. “So the heck with it, we’ll look at our legal avenues right now."
The Kings have been trying to work out fair compensation but Tambellini has turtled.
This kind of shit will come back to bite him
How hard is to italicize other people's comments DSF?
ReplyDeleteJust putrid.
What if the reality is the Oilers had zero interest in acquiring Smyth and Lombardi taking it public forced them into a public relations corner that made anything other than acquiring him untenable? Does that make Tambellini wanting to force an injured player / contract dump on Lombardi in retaliation more understandable?
ReplyDeleteGranted, there's as little evidence to support this as this there is to support the claims that Tambi was doing anything other trading the Kings a player 'as is.' But hey, who am I to stand in the way of some good gossip? Maybe later in the thread, we can start exchanging our favourite recipes?
Fred Stamps can run really fast. That's indisputable fact baby.
ReplyDeleteLet me help you, DSF. Quote from Lombardi: "This has kind of evolved over the last two months, actually."
ReplyDeleteThe only one getting bit by this will be Lombardi. Katz does NOT like things aired in public.
PJOil - I just don't bother reading DSF's comments given the way he stuffs quotes throughout and can't figure out how to, or doesn't care to, italicize them.
ReplyDeleteGood day,
ReplyDelete"The NHL last season ('06-'07) mandated that its 30 teams begin using a new computer program created by Toronto's Sutton Medical Technologies Ltd. to digitize the medical files of the league's 700-odd players, and those playing in the minors."
I found the above article during Souray's first season-on-the-shelf as an Oiler, and used it to argue that KLowe had to know about 44's injury history. Later I used the words "eyes wide open or willfull ignorance" when discussing Tambellini's culpability in Khabibulin's durability.
Last week I sent an email to Jason Gregor suggesting that he check with his sources in the NHL to confirm or refute the above info. He had it confirmed by 2 sources that the database does exist and is required reading for all GM's making trades, as the NHL has little interest in mediating playground squabbles.
Eyes wide open or willfull ignorance for everyone.
;-D
L8r
Louise
Helenenothelen reports that Bill Daly says the league has had contact w/Kings regarding Colin Fraser's condition but the Kings havn't formally or informally requested relief at this point.
ReplyDelete(Paraphrasing two tweets.)
Lander has apparently gained a step. True story? Is that from Serdachny's programs?
ReplyDeleteUnbelievably my captcha is kings.
spOILer: Yeah, he's been on the program for a year and the improvement has apparently been exceptional. Big time improvement.
ReplyDeleteThe Eskimos have a running game and good coaching.
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers have acquired a defensive face off specialist.
Surely the end of the world is nigh.
Lee
ReplyDeleteIf the Oilers did not want Ryan Smyth at no cost they are beyond developmentally challenged.Seriously!! So if that is how Lombardi "forced" the Oil into deal that was really really good deal for them, thank god he did.
At the end of this issue someone is gonna look really bad. Could be Lombardi, Tambellini, either teams doctors, or someone else. Don't think LAK doctors are using Xrays but passage of time will illuminate everything.
Trust everyone slagging either side will post the appropriate mea culpa when truth comes out.
At this point suspect that trade done on an "As Is, Where Is" basis likely did not occur. Too bad
Wonder if Serdachny's program could work with Sean Couturier? If so, think Philly will try to help his first step?
ReplyDelete@IceDragoon
ReplyDeleteBrilliant. Hopefully that will help a few of our more zealous conspiracy theorists "connect the dots."
Despite the league's intentions, it's clear you can't stop the playground squabbles if NHL GMs are simply too predisposed to act like children. If Lombardi's comments are to be believed, his claim is that the Oilers' medical reports simply weren't detailed enough (i.e. my doctor's better than your's). Rather than criticising the Oilers' medical stuff for all the details they supposedly miss, wouldn't a more valid evaluation criteria be the quality of the care they provide when there's a clearly diagnosed injury?
Has there ever been an Oiler player who went public after being traded claiming the team bungled his medical treatment leading to complications or extending the duration of his injury? I can't recall nary a one. Pretty hard to make a case for negligence or incompetence from that perspective. Again, that leaves us Sheldon Souray as the 'history' or 'smoke' if you will upon which the bulk of this conjecture is based. Weak.
My uncle recently died unexpectedly of a heart attack after getting a clean bill of health from his doctor. Do I blame the doctor because he obviously missed something? Of course not. They're professionals doing the best they can with the information they have at hand. No one has a crystal ball.
If the Oilers did not want Ryan Smyth at no cost they are beyond developmentally challenged.Seriously!! So if that is how Lombardi "forced" the Oil into deal that was really really good deal for them, thank god he did.
ReplyDeleteDid you fail to read the other paragraph in that post or did your comprehension just end after the first paragraph?
Lee
ReplyDeleteYou are buying what the Olers are selling. That is easily understood. Even without me calling into question your ability to comprehend.
Others here are clearly questioning Oiler management.
I am doing neither
But we do know: Brule was referred to as "good to go", when he was clearly not. Fraser either is, or is not able to play. It depends on what the best medical evidence says. No one here posseses that information. The NHL will review that info and reach a conclusion. I have no idea how people here are certain as to who is wrong without any facts. Question is not whether Fraser was injured in season, that is a fact. It is whether he was still injured at date of trade
Wonder if Serdachny's program could work with Sean Couturier? If so, think Philly will try to help his first step?
ReplyDeleteThe question with a lot of scouting directors was whether he needs a heart transplant. I got the imprssion "skating" was a nice way of saying he doesn't bring it every shift.
Ducey
ReplyDeleteNow your theory is Sean Couturier is Jason Bonsignore. So go look their numbers. One of the 2 lead his league in scoring at 17 and it was NOT RNH. The numbers I suggest you focus on is SC plus 120 over 2 years including a year when he had mono.
Forgot it is ONLY our prospects that are capable of improving their foot speed!
It was the Kings pulling an overnighter with the NHL lawyers to try to make the Brule deal work. If the Oilers were pushing Brule on the Kings, wouldn't it be the Oilers lawyers?
ReplyDeleteEyes wide open or willfull ignorance for everyone.
ReplyDelete;-D
No doubt. "As is" is "As is" to everyone. The whining afterwards is just shameful.
It's a difficult condition to verify, and it seems easily treatable.
Man... If only that were a true statement. A few family members that suffer. Not a fun or easily remedied problem at all.
I'm not buying what the Oilers are selling. I'm simply not inclined to cast aspersions on the character of their management or medical staff until/if all the facts are revealed. Yes, gossip sometimes turns out to be accurate. It doesn't make it any less pointless or malicious.
ReplyDeleteI'm all for the competencies of these people being debated. But when people insinuate that they're purposefully lying or forcing players to play hurt, that takes it to a lower level IMO
Further, your post completely ignores Ashley's and IceDragoon's points. The issue isn't whether Fraser was injured at the time of the trade or the documenting of injuries at all. It's the extent of the injuries found by both clubs.
Which begs the obvious question, when a player has a fractured foot, what GM in his right mind would order more extensive tests to go looking for cysts or blood issues? Tambi's motivation isn't nor should it be to find reasons why the Kings shouldn't take Fraser. Bottom line, Lombardi could've made the trade contigent upon Fraser passing the Kings' physical if he didn't want to trust the Oilers' medical reports. He didn't so he's got no one to blame but himself. A sign of a good manager is the way he manages the things within his control and acknowledges those factors not within his control. Establishing the extent of Fraser's injuries was well within his control but he abdicated that responsibility to a rival with a conflict of interest. Not too smart Deano.
book¡e said...
ReplyDelete"PJOil - I just don't bother reading DSF's comments given the way he stuffs quotes throughout and can't figure out how to, or doesn't care to, italicize them."
I would guess your motives are murkier than Steve Tambellini's at the trade deadline.
Lee
ReplyDeleteIce dragon and Ashley do not have access to the Med file. If they did their opinion may be the same, or completely different. Someone will be proven right here. You assume it will be the Oil.......Because you are a fan. Not because of any empirical evidence.
Trust if you are wrong you will post comment setting out your apology.
Cannot say this enough, Fraser's condition on day of trade is the only issue
Trust if you are wrong you will post comment setting out your apology.
ReplyDeleteOk Mom. And all the people insinuating that Tambellini is a liar? Will we get print retractions from them as well if the facts of this matter reveal otherwise?
Okay. I'll put up another post in awhile but this is reminding me of my kids.
ReplyDeleteAbout 10 years ago.