Sunday, July 10, 2011

Not So Fast!


















The buzz started mid-week and by Saturday morning enough people said something within earshot often enough for me to notice: Anton Lander's skating has improved markedly. Lander is an interesting prospect on all kinds of levels. Most of the players who emerge at the NHL level as two-way types started their hockey careers as the best offensive forwards on their teams. Since he was drafted, the scouting report on Lander always takes a paragraph or two in order to explain his play away from the puck. Abnormal. Squared.
  • Stu MacGregor earlier this week: “His effort is so consistent, every shift. The best way to put it is he works smart. He’s really intelligent, good on ­faceoffs. That really stood out for us. His skating may have held him back from being a first-round pick, but it’s improved.” Article is here.
So I had enough ammo to ask a couple of guests on the Nation Radio show yesterday about him. Both Bruce McCurdy and Steve Serdachny raved about him, and his improvement year over year as a skater was obvious to everyone.
  • McCurdy: Lander might be on the fast track up (to Edmonton). He showed a new level of speed that was missing last year. There was one play where he just turned it up a notch, and he just turned it on and was gone. It was an unexpected burst from that player.
  • Serdachny: Anton has had incredible development. He's made incredible strides in his skating and his quickness, he has so many great intangible qualities and a fantastic individual. Foot speed, mobility, efficiency have been a part of his program and something he's been working on. This guy is a dedicated learner and working hard to become an Edmonton Oiler.
You never know with kids, but Lander has impressed pretty much everyone he's come in contact with; better to bet on a guy who works hard (and lacks top end skill) than a guy who owns the world but doesn't have the work habits. Anton Lander may push at training camp, and he's certainly on track as an NHL prospect based on the latest available information.

91 comments:

  1. They spent avoid ten minutes raving about him on Gregor this past Friday

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  2. Avoid= "a good"

    Auto correct to the rescue once again.

    Anyway, apparently he's an avid student of the game and dedicated to his personal skill and ability development.

    On another interesting note: he's a natural born leader. Reports have it that the other players naturally gravitated toward him and he's apparently very helpful and supportive in his tips and praise.

    A lot of maturity and poise for a young man. Some people are extremely excited about the strides he's made.

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  3. I wonder if it's possible for TWO rookie centers to make the grade ala 2007 with Gagner/Cogliano?

    I doubt it. A lot. But what happens if the two new kids outplay the older kids?

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  4. I was watching the videos of the development camp on the Oilers site and Lander totally stood out. In one drill he makes Curtis Hamilton look like he's lumbering around the ice in comparison. Maybe on a "good" team Lander wouldn't even be in the discussion for starting on the big-league squad, but I can't help but be excited to see how he does at training camp. If 10/89/Belanger are the top 3C, he makes more sense to stick around as a 4C than RNH.

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  5. So could Lander help them to make a better long-term decision re RNH by forcing himself into the roster?

    If you kept both RNH and Lander - at least for the start of the season, that means you have 2 C's that go away.

    I can see Cogs (either by contract or move to wing). Can't see the other - unless they think they can get a lot of value for Gagner.

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  6. Lander and Trembley looked most like pros to my eye ( being consistent and making the right play ). Lander looked by far the most NHL ready of any prospect on the ice. His skating is a non-issue as long as he keeps pumping his legs. He does not have Paajarvi's knack for gliding around the ice effortlessly at 90% speed but few do. His work ethic makes up for any problems with the mechanics of his stride and from what I understand, his stride mechanics have improved ( I hadn't seen him live previous to this week ). I think he's ahead of Van Velde or any other non-NHL regular, at least up the middle.

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  7. Just read:
    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/hockey/edmonton-oilers/Oilers+rookie+centre+Lander+models+play+after+Wings+Zetterberg/5069042/story.html

    His skating (when skating hard) looks like Zetterburg's ( I'll only commit to it being that way optically for now). He has 2 Hands on the stick, bent over, head up most of the time, pumping as hard as he can.

    I would like to see him carry his speed more effectively after his legs have stopped and he is in glide, but that may be nit-picky.

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  8. Good to see Lander improved. By all accounts he was better then anyone else at camp, including the Nuge. If we are serious about taking our time with the kids, i really hope RNH plays another junior year. We have a lot of "questions" at centre, and this is/may be the last year for Gagner to either step up or get shipped out. i expect Cogs to be dealt/arb walked away from, and with Gagner entering his last year of his deal, it makes sense that this is a make or break year for him.

    I expect Lander to start with the big club, with the team possibly letting him run an all swede line. Omark and MPS played well together, but no one was able to find consistency between them. Gagner gets one year with primo linemates (Smyth and Hemsky) and if he doesn't step up then he is gone, with the Nuge stepping between those two or the wonder kids.

    Would like to see this to start the year, with the all swede line getting gravy minutes, and a bit of PP time.

    Smyth-Gagner-Hemsky (PVP)

    Hall-Horcoff-Eberle (2nd toughs)

    MPS-Lander-Omark (gravy minutes)

    Eager-Belanger-Jones (sort of checking unit)

    Belanger will play a ton on the PK, and slot in to take own zone faceoff's instead of Lander/Gagner at times. And if Gagner struggles, then you can slot Belanger on the top line and drop Gagner. Belanger gives us flexibility, and Lander and the swedes may be the biggest surprise of camp. it also allows us to wait on RNH and let him mature and grow into his body. We aren't cup contenders this year or next year, so slow the rookie parade and let the kids mature. RNH, Hamilton, Hartikanen, Pitlik, Teubert, Marincin, Klefbomb, Musil, Martindale, Roy, Bunz can all use more seasoning. And Petry will not be hurt playing tons of minutes on the 1st pair in the minors.

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  9. At this time, I think RNH should get his 9 games and then go back to junior. I reserve the right to make final judgments at a later date.

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  10. My prediction is that Hopkins' back to junior is going to make a hypocrite out of about 90% of the Oilers' fan base.

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  11. Lowetide said...I doubt it. A lot. But what happens if the two new kids outplay the older kids?

    We're stronger? Pretty nice place to be compared to years gone by.

    I'm going to run with very doubtful Cogliano remains an Oiler and highly probable that Gagner is moved to RW or trade fodder.

    I would venture Gagner and Omark are the biggest quandary's for management right now.

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  12. Lander probably needs some time on the farm to learn what to do on smaller ice and about the physical game. But all the tools are there.

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  13. If we're still on the Chicago model (wink wink) I see Lander as our Dave Bolland. Although Bolland was probably a more talented offensive player at an early age (inflated London numbers?), he's a guy who also had some questions about his skating. But, like Lander he's a rink rat and has great character. Seems like they bring similar skills sets and intangibles.

    Could easily see Lander turning into a 15 goal, 40 point 3rd line center who kills penalties and wears a letter.

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  14. Think Oiler management deserve huge kudos for the significant resources put into the Development camp. It will pay tangible dividends moving forward. Instruction put into skill development, strength training, skating and nutrition will all be gifts that keep on giving. It is a way to gain a noticeable incremental advantage outside of the salary cap

    Listened to Nation radio and it was, again, superb!! Thanks to Bruce for his reports on development camp and loved to hear Steve Serdachny.

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  15. Shipping one of gags or cogs by training camp makes sense along with RNH back in junior. Which ever of gags or cogs stays get pumped with 2nd line minutes and dealt at the deadline. Gags still has some top line potential but that is running out so the deal must be made soon. Gags and Bogosian as key parts of deal may make sense for both sides since both guys have diminished potential - but both also fill a need on their respective squads.

    Next year at this time hopefully we see this at C: Horcoff, RNH, Belanger, Lander.

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  16. Definitely one of my favorite prospects in the system. Everything about him screams reliable prospect as long as he avoids injury -- great head on his shoulders and character and a real love of the game and desire to improve. The AHL would do him some good (give him more minutes on the small ice before bringing him up), but I think he is one of the few prospects you can consider a lock for future rosters.

    I think the RNH decision has to be a development decision. Hall seemed ready and better able to develop at the NHL level. If RNH is there by fall then Lander's readiness or our depth at C shouldn't matter.

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  17. It's an interesting situation. If the Oilers wait until TC without making a move at C then imo RNH will probably be sent out and Lander to OKC.

    The depth chart as is:

    1. Horcoff
    2. Gagner
    3. Belanger
    4. Cogliano
    5. RNH
    6. Lander
    7. VandeVelde
    8. O'Marra
    9. House
    10. Kytnar

    The top 4C's can't be sent down without waivers. It looks fairly set, they could move Cogliano and then keep RNH for 9 games, with Lander playing in OKC to see how things shake out.

    That's probably what they'll do, unless RNH shows poorly in pre-season.

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  18. I know most of us seem to have written off VV, but I wonder if the Oilers are of the same mind. His AHL season was nothing special and while his underlying numbers weren't great in his NHL debut, he won more than 50% of his FOs and did play hard.

    LT, like your hypothetical earlier about RNH and Lander making the team, I wonder what the Oilers do if VV comes into training camp and plays well enough to deserve a look at the #4 centre.

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  19. Cactus: VandeVelde imo is more likely to be a mid-season callup. He'd have to impress the hell out of coach Renney to move up this list far enough to make the team imo.

    Now things may change before TC.

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  20. I’m just an old(er) WHA fan. Fond memories watching the Golden Jet through the chicken wire at the old Edmonton Gardens. Way too much emphasis now on mind-numbing stats and over-analysis. Ryan Nugent-Hopkins is a number one overall pick, judged to be first among his draft peers, not to mention the tens of thousands of kids his age who first picked up a hockey stick when they were young and dreamed of playing in the NHL.

    Ryan Nugent-Hopkins (I hate acronyms) not being able to crack the Oiler’s line-up, a team that finished dead last for two years in a row, just doesn’t feel right.

    Either the Oilers are a deceptively great team with so much talent that he can’t help them or he is not the player everybody thinks he is. Don’t quote me stats and probability, I’m still looking at the game through chicken wire.

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  21. Have to say that I love Lander's arrows. Could it be since the first time since I don't know how long that the Oil have actual, legit prospects at C?

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  22. WHA Oilers fan said...I’m still looking at the game through chicken wire.

    Which might be the best way to be.

    If the kid isn't in the bigs come the end of October he'll be defying all of the odds. History says it just won't happen and the Oilers aren't exactly the late 90's Dev's here.

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  23. Anton Lander sounds like he's going to be to this team what Jarret Stoll was a few years ago. Hopefully they won't deal him as quickly this time.

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  24. LT how can you place Cogliano ahead of VV. When VV was up here wasn't he the one that took most of the important FO's. Played on the PP and PK, were Cogliano only played on the PK. Do not the Oilers lack size up the center, which VV has. Your reasoning doesn't make sense.

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  25. Would anyone really say that the worst thing that could happen to RNH is another year in juniors?

    To me there's a lot of upside to allowing him to develop at his pace, regardless of whether he was the top pick or not.

    Having too many kids learning at once is not good. Last year, the Oilers had no choice (well they did, but in the summer they chose not sign any vet help).

    This year they've taken a different approach. I'd rather it be a situation where one of the kids forces his way onto the roster than the other way around.

    And given that, if RNH or Lander wind up in Edmonton to start the season - so be it.

    But I think we'll get our first indication of this w/Cogs arbitrattion hearing and what happens.

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  26. Archie: Cogliano has been in the NHL since fall 2007. VandeVelde has played 12 NHL games.

    That's why I have Cogliano ahead of VandeVelde.

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  27. @Archie

    Cogs:

    GP G A Pts PIM +/- GP G A Pts PIM

    2007-08 Edmonton Oilers NHL 82 18 27 45 20 1 -- -- -- -- --
    2008-09 Edmonton Oilers NHL 82 18 20 38 22 -6 -- -- -- -- --
    2009-10 Edmonton Oilers NHL 82 10 18 28 31 -5 -- -- -- -- --
    2010-11 Edmonton Oilers NHL 82 11 24 35 64 -12 -- -- -- -- --

    CVV

    GP G A Pts PIM +/- GP G A Pts PIM

    2010-11 Oklahoma City Barons AHL 67 12 4 16 45 -17 6 1 0 1 6
    2010-11 Edmonton Oilers NHL 12 0 2 2 12 -6 -- -- -- -- --

    CVV is a prospect. cogs is a developing NHLer

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  28. Rich: Agreed. RNH going back to junior should be a strong consideration. He's 6 months younger (I think that's right) than Hall was this time last summer and we know that those 6 months are huge at that age (history tells us that much).

    So yeah, RNH going back to the WHL is a strong, reasonable option. I don't think that's what will happen, though. He'll get 9 games and then they'll decide.

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  29. Tambo has got to move Cogs with the Belanger signing, I was for him moving him before the Belanger signing...
    I am all about RNH back to Junior, Lander in, and see what VV does as the man to be called up if he gets a chance. We need centers that can win draws, if this Lander kid can win a draw, let him play. IF gagner doesn't progress this year we need to sell for some D, so we got to see what this kid can do. VV is not a replacement for Gagner in my mind.

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  30. Cogliano is a developing NHLer, that's a good laugh. His stats would say he's declining if anything. Cogliano's days with Oilers are number and should be even considered on the depth chart.

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  31. Down the stretch when Oilers had Cogliano, VandeVelde and O'Marra as their three centres *shudders involuntarily*, Cogs was by far the best to my eye. VandeVelde did have his moments for sure, especially in that sweep against Vancouver that Oiler fans are likely hanging on to. He had his struggles as well, not unexpected for a kid thrown into the deep end the way he was (20+ minutes a night!). I think there was a tendency among fans to see the good stuff and overlook the bad, as many of us tend to do with rookies generally.

    VandeVelde was decent on the dot and was better offensively than I expected, but there were times he was just getting killed.

    @The other John: Thanks for your kind comment. I really enjoyed the camp & it seemed like Twitter was just the right vehicle, 140 characters were more than enough for the little glimpses I was getting. Very hard to form comprehensive opinions, just impressions, but I'm happy to say I had many more positive ones than negative.

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  32. If it was my team, Lander would have a strong shot at making the team. But this belief of the greater good, politics, and the besmirching of fast-tracking, he will likely be in OKC.

    Lander is a really good young center, one we haven't seen for some time now.

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  33. McCurdy: Lander might be on the fast track up (to Edmonton). He showed a new level of speed that was missing last year. There was one play where he just turned it up a notch, and he just turned it on and was gone. It was an unexpected burst from that player.

    Serdachny: Anton has had incredible development. He's made incredible strides in his skating and his quickness, he has so many great intangible qualities and a fantastic individual. Foot speed, mobility, efficiency have been a part of his program and something he's been working on. This guy is a dedicated learner and working hard to become an Edmonton Oiler.

    DangerMan: Yarp. I'm finally glad you guys came around on the Lander train. Saw him good didya?

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  34. Cogliano is a developing NHLer, that's a good laugh

    He was the Oilers best forwad on the PK last year. Is that developing enough for you?

    Bruce,

    What did you think of the Nuge at camp? I missed all of it except the last part of the 3 on 3. RNH was repeatedly try to deak a goalie after the team picture and couldn't do it. He looked at like he was playing around but at the same time he looked a little intimidated. Any of that vibe from camp?

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  35. @DangerMan: I've been seeing Lander good all along.

    @Ducey: That wasn't just "a" goalie he was trying to deke, that was Tyler Bunz, who owned RNH and all of the Rebels in the playoffs last year. But sure, there were times in camp when Hopkins looked like an 18-year-old kid. Not everything he tried worked, that's for sure. But to my eye he had the best hands and the best feet at camp.

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  36. Huddy to join Jets


    Teubert


    Both of these are a couple days old but I hadn't seen them posted.

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  37. I don't really see how RNH sticking means that Cogliano and/or Gagner has to go, at least not before camp starts.

    What's wrong with going into camp, penciling your lines in before camp something like:

    Smyth-Horcoff-Hemsky
    Hall-Gagner-Eberle
    Paajarvi-Belanger-Omark
    Eager-Cogliano-Jones

    extras: RNH, Hordichuk, Brule (potential IR, based on what we hear now?)

    (1) Chances are not bad that at least one player will go on the IR before the first game anyways.

    (2) Is there any reason to think Nugent Hopkins will play each of the first 9 games to start the season? Maybe he plays 9 of the first 27 games, with the team doing a lot of off ice training, coaching, and conditioning in the meantime, before sending him back to junior?

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  38. Huddy to the Jets. Great. Their d-men are going to be taking a step forward this year.

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  39. You trade Cogliano NOW while you can get value for him in return.

    It is best for him and for the Oilers.

    It is called making an effing decision.

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  40. speeds: My speculation involved getting both Lander and RNH on the roster (post #3). 1% chance, but the Oilers have done it before (2007).

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  41. It's easy to say, "stop delaying and just trade Cogliano"...the problem is you need to find a dance partner, first.

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  42. Godot10:

    I have no idea exactly what the Oilers think about Cogliano in terms of the plans going forward, but I have to give them the benefit of the doubt here.

    Based on what we hear, it sure sounds like the Oilers have been entertaining moving him for awhile, and would be more than willing to trade him if they could get anywhere near the value for him they'd like. Are they being unreasonable with their asking price? Impossible for us to evaluate without more information.

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  43. LT:

    I see what you're saying. To answer that, I'd say it's extremely unlikely.

    I don't think they'll keep Lander in EDM unless he's one of their 2 best C options right out of the gate. why have him in and out of the lineup, playing 10 min a night on the 4th line, when they could have him in OKC honing his offensive game, getting significant minutes on both the PP and PK? At least until they figure out what they're doing with RNH?

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  44. Don't you love it when 1st rounders are popping out of everywhere.

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  45. Broke his scaphoid, eh?

    The Oilers would have put him on the point on the PP with that one. They've done it before with Mike York in 2003.

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  46. Oh, hell. Remember that time they have a 5-on-3 with York in the nucler weapon from the point slot and he just kept passing it to the winger? Christ that was funny.

    That and the "get yer shinebox, Robby" might be the funniest things I've encountered involving the Oilers in a decade.

    And that's saying something!

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  47. Any word on that Mike Green rumour? I am warming to the idea of him as a top 2 dman. And if we hit training camp and RNH is better then Gagner, and Lander is right there as well then maybe that is the best route. i know most here like Bogosian better, but last year Green stepped his game up defensively and physically, and I wondered if the progression of Lander and the Nuge may allow us to acquire a player of Greens calibre. He is that elusive RH dman who can qb the PP, and is in the age range of our team (25). And I may be wrong, but I seem to remember Eberle mentioning him and Green talking during the summer. they are buddies.

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  48. Cogliano gets a bum rap. Hes a useful player thats just learning the defensive side of the game. He is one year into reinventing himself as a player. He got markedly better towards the end of the year, especially on the penalty kill.

    He is YOUNGER than linus omark and a whole six months older than super prospect Petry. They will be cut a ton of slack but cogliano gets none. I understand that he doesnt fit numbers wise, but some people make him out to be an awful player when it is the exact opposite.

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  49. Broke his scaphoid, eh?

    The Oilers would have put him on the point on the PP with that one. They've done it before with Mike York in 2003.


    No condemning of the LAK medical staff for missing it?

    I broke the wrist, the scaphoid bone, and they misdiagnosed it. I kept playing and it kind of screwed it up. It was hard to catch (severity of the break),” said Teubert, who wound up playing 59 games for Manchester, the Kings’ AHL affiliate, then was moved for Penner.

    I wonder if he called the LAK medical staff and GM incompetent, so he was sent down to the AHL? (bookiethingy!)

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  50. @Woodguy: I was going to make that exact same point but you beat me to it. Sometimes the talk around here is all about how the Oilers are incompetent clowns, and maybe they are, but they aren't the only ones. Other teams fuck up occasionally as well.

    If I was Steve Tambellini I would be very sorely tempted to mention that Dean Lombardi had traded me a guy who had a misdiagnosed broken scapoid. Not sure of the timing, etc., but to some extent it doesn't matter. Shit does happen, and Lombardi should know that.

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  51. @LT/RQ: The Oilers certainly can be incompetent clowns, and the Mike York fiasco was Exhibit A (or L, or Z). I had my head in my hands that whole spring. It was like having Toby Peterson on the point, without the shot. >:(

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  52. Its just too crowded at forward for the Oil. Somebody's gotta go.

    1st line has Gagner and RNH competing for the spot between Smyth and Hemsky

    2nd line has Horcoff between Hall and Eberle

    3rd line has Belanger playing the Horcoff role between MPS and Omark.

    That leaves a spot between Eager and Jones.

    Potential's for that spot include Gagner (if RNH wins), Cogs, Brule, VV, and Lander. That's a lot of bodies for one spot. Simplified if RNH goes back to Junior (let's hope), Brule goes on LTIR, and Lander and VV start the year in OKC. Cogs wins by default.But that's a lotta stars that need to align for that to happen.

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  53. @WG/Bruce

    Actually that's exactly what I was getting at by posting that. You guys are so goddamn predictable!

    The point of the story was that the Oilers are in no position to complain about scaphoid injuries. Even when they recognize them they manage to fuck it up.

    Also I looked it up - a fractured scaphoid is apparently one of the most commonly misdiagnosed injuries.

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  54. RQ,

    Predictable as an Oiler management apologist or just a jackass?

    I'm tarred with the "anti-management" bias more than anything.

    Apparently the scaphoid is usually directly under another bone in the standard x-ray position, which leads it to be easily missed.

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  55. lol. We're edging ever closer to the ultimate Oilogosphere moment, which will occur when lawyers begin discussing x-rays.

    We're sooooo close!

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  56. Predictable as an Oiler management apologist or just a jackass?

    A contrarian maybe?

    I was just kidding around. I did expect someone to latch on to that but not necessarily you two.

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  57. @RiversQ: Well, my point is that maybe Lombardi is in no position to complain either.

    As I recall the scaphoid is the hollow bone at the base of the thumb that can be compressed inward and be a bear to set. There are significant blood supply issues which can cause nasty shit like necrosis.

    I learned about the unique qualities of the scaphoid back in '1988, when Kevin Lowe broke his late in the 1987-88 season. That one was diagnosed correctly, but he came back early and played through the playoffs with a playing cast despite no small risk that the injury wouldn't heal properly. He also played through broken ribs that spring. Whatever he may have been as a GM, Lowe was one tough hombre as a player.

    Let's hope that Teubert hasn't suffered any long-term complications from the misdiagnosis.

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  58. Wait, I thought it came from good authority that Teuberts misdiagnosis was smoke and mirrors from edmontons manchurian correspondent?

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  59. No Khab + Dman = Playoffs (depending on other teams)

    Dubnyk, Bunz, Roy, and Danis. One of these guys is LIKELY to surprise. Book eat!

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  60. WG said, "Apparently the scaphoid is usually directly under another bone in the standard x-ray position, which leads it to be easily missed."

    In first year Anatomy, we learn about palpating the anatomical snuff box to detect a scaphoid fracture as well as falling on an outstretched hand as the mechanism of injury for a scaphoid fracture.

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  61. "We're edging ever closer to the ultimate Oilogosphere moment, which will occur when lawyers begin discussing x-rays. "

    LT, I personally know plenty of doctors that read your blog, but they don't generally post comments.

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  62. Any word on that Mike Green rumour? I am warming to the idea of him as a top 2 dman.

    WASH traded Fehr to get under the cap and bikini girl had to put her clothes on due to all the mosquitos.

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  63. lol. We're edging ever closer to the ultimate Oilogosphere moment, which will occur when lawyers begin discussing x-rays.

    Well in that case, I'd like to turn everyone's attention to the Supreme Court of British Columbia's decision in Morrow v. Outerbridge, 2009 BCSC 433. In Morrow, the Court said that...well, I didn't actually read the whole case, but the word "X-ray" comes up like 10 times in it. Plus, the plaintiff is a former Nashville Predators prospect. Fun stuff.

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  64. Interesting. I didn't know that, honestly. Crazy.

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  65. RQ,

    A contrarian maybe?

    I was just kidding around. I did expect someone to latch on to that but not necessarily you two.


    I can wear that comfortably.

    Although in the last thread LT talked about a series of good draft classes that can lead to a championship and by the end of the thread you and Zona had Lowe firing Stu as a scapegoat when in 4 years it didn't turn out well....

    Ryan,

    palpating the anatomical snuff box

    I was going to let you know I was married so it wasn't as often as it used to be, but I googled it and understand your post now.

    So why do you think it get mis-diagnosed as often (apparently) as it does?

    LT,

    We're edging ever closer to the ultimate Oilogosphere moment, which will occur when lawyers begin discussing x-rays.

    Now that you know some doctors read your blog, perhaps the new ultimate moment is 2 MDs discussing the minutea of contract law?

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  66. He'll get 9 games and then they'll decide.

    I think they should give him his 9 games, and then send him down regardless of how he plays.

    Gagner played great in his first 9 games before slowing down.

    Lets not repeat history.

    As for Cogliano - rumours suggest the Oilers came in asking for a 1st round pick. I suspect nobody is willing to give that, and a second is just not enough. Down the road I can see Cogliano being traded in a quantity for quality trade. That said, no reason to trade him. He was serviceable.

    Brule, on the other hand, should be waived/traded or bought-out if healthy (window opened again as the Oilers have one player opting for arbitration).

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  67. DBO: I haven't heard anything on the Green front. I dont even know if its a legit rumor or speculation. Either way, Green would be a splendid addition. McPhee has had a great summer so far and moving Green would undo it all IMO. I cant see many scenarios where the Oilers would lose the trade.

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  68. PunjabiOil: Crosby also played well early and continued to play well going forward. Are you saying the Penguins should've sent him down just because in a couple years, Sam Gagner would start well before tailing off?

    I'm certainly not claiming that RNH is Crosby, but if they're going to give the kid his 9 games, let's make it an honest audition. All recent 1st overalls have gotten that chance.

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  69. Crosby's generational, and was dearly needed.

    I highly doubt RNH will be better than Horcoff, Gagner or BĂ©langer off the bat.

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  70. That and the "get yer shinebox, Robby" might be the funniest things I've encountered involving the Oilers in a decade.

    LT, I've heard you mention this comment a lot, but unfortunately it was a little before my time. What was the context that made it so funny?

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  71. My fearless prediction(s):

    1) The Cogliano spot will be vacant when the Oilers let him walk after the arbitration ruling is too rich for their liking (or they sign & trade him).

    2) Lander will be sent to Oklahoma after training camp.

    3) RNH will get his 9 games with Edmonton and then be sent back to Red Deer.

    4) Lander will be in the NHL full time before Christmas.

    I am a Hopkins fan, but this seems the best route for him. Tambellini has been not-so-subtly telling that to everyone even before the draft was made.

    He would need a pretty special camp to change that scenario.

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  72. PunjabiOil said...I think they should give him his 9 games, and then send him down regardless of how he plays.

    Gagner played great in his first 9 games before slowing down.

    Lets not repeat history.



    Yeah theres a well thought out reply. So if RNH gets those first 9 games, puts up 15 points and proves he can contribute well in the bigs, he should be sent down anyways. Gotcha.

    As far as your stats go I will assume you pulled them out of your ass.

    2007/ 2008 season

    First 9 games: 7 pts

    First 1/2 of season: 16 pts

    2nd 1/2 of season: 33 pts

    1st quarter of season: 9 pts

    2nd quarter of season: 7 pts

    3rd quarter of season: 17 pts

    4th quarter of season: 16 pts

    Sorry to debunk your theory but Gagner got better as the season progressed. If a kids ready he's ready and we can debate for the next week if sending him back to junior would have been beneficial to his growth.

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  73. Lee, I think it was when Robbie Schremp was put on waivers.

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  74. Wait - i stand corrected. Here it is

    http://lowetide.blogspot.com/2009/09/get-yer-shinebox-robbie.html

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  75. Hey PO. Maybe Skinner should have been sent back after 9 games last year as well?

    First 9 games: 7 pts (same as Gagner)

    First 1/2: 32 pts

    Second 1/2: 31 pts

    If you can provide solid reasoning as to why ALL 18 year olds, (exempting generational talents and the contractual benefits), should be returned to junior to "improve" I'd love to hear it.

    That said I'd love to see the NHL return to drafting players at age 19.

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  76. Oh wait - more - it apparently is referenced back to a comment made by Slipper (a coy young man with a gentle way about him) as referenced about 1/2 way down the page here

    http://lowetide.blogspot.com/2009/03/wild-at-oilers-g7608-09.html


    Here is the quote
    I kinda want to see every bubble prospect in the system called up ahead of Schremp now.

    By the end of the year I want to see a second line composed of McDonald, Sesito and Trukhno... fuck that, I want three "scoring lines" with the third made up of Corzanni, Rohlfs and Paukovich; all of them will be scoring at a PPG clip and before each puck drop SaM Gagner will come out in an elf costume and announce into the PA: Merry Fucking Christmas Sugar Tits, hey Rob, go getch yor fucking shine box!!!


    Furthermore it all relates back to some 1940's baseball incident involving Phil Rizzuto referenced here

    http://www.amazon.com/October-Twelve-Years-Yankee-1949-1953/dp/product-description/B000HWYYN0

    Apparently Casey Stengel told Phil that he was too small for baseball and that he should "get his shoe shine box and go home" when he tried out for the Brooklyn Dodgers. Rizzuto left, but didn't go home. Instead he tried out for, and made the Yankees. The Yankees went on to win a load of world championships.

    Rob Schremp has yet to win any Stanley Cups...

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  77. It doesn't look like Robbie will be doing shoe shines in the NHL anymore.

    I see he is teaching the New Zealanders about Rob Shremp hockey.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/sport/ice-hockey/148041/ice-hockey-top-class-game-coup-dunedin

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  78. Thanks bookie, all makes sense now. Definitely one of the more polarizing players in Oiler history. A lot of 1's and 0's effort expended on a decidely mediocre player. Given that Omark was a youtube sensation as well, it will be interesting to see if he can hold the regular spot in the lineup that Scremp never could.

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  79. Too many posters seem to sure of what is best for RNH's development.

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  80. Lee...

    The version Showerhead quoted--"Now go home and get your fucking shine box"--is from Goodfellas.

    Billy Batts (Frank Vincent) is busting Tommy's (Joe Pesci's) balls. Pesci loses it. It would not turn out well for either character.

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  81. if he can hold the regular spot in the lineup that Scremp never could.

    Ask yourself how many of the oilers could go into a corner with the puck and come out with it.

    Omark was one of the few!

    Christ Gagner more schremp than Omark!

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  82. Omark probably gets a bad rep because of his fancy moves.

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  83. There are several reasons why I'm in favour of sending RNH down to WHL

    1. Size. Give him a year to physically develop. You don't want to dick around by risking a physically immature franchise-player, kid and re-live the Gilbert Brule situation all over again.

    2. He's one of the younger players of the draft with an April birthday. See #1.

    3. He has not yet dominated the WHL. Give him a year to fully dominate in the 'dub' before moving to the next level

    Compare this to Hall, who had nothing left to prove in junior (2 memorial cup MVP's, World Juniors), who was physically developed, and nearly 19 by the time the season started.

    4. The Oilers have a ton of ELC coming up. Having RNH ELC end two years after the trio would provide some breathing space.

    5. The Oilers have a set plan to develop their young players by parroting the Detroit model.

    Lets stick with it.

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  84. I think there are two strong reasons to send RNH back to junior:

    1) The risks of rushing a physically immature player into a league of men. Look at the false starts to Gilbert Brule's career. A lot of people right now are saying he should stay up long enough to show what he can do. I wonder if they'll stand by that if RNH suffers a severe injury in the first quarter of the season.

    2) We can let his ELC slide another year. Given that there are good reasons for RNH to spend another year in the WHL (injury risk, WJC participation, establishing dominance at that level), why don't we take advantage of this? RNH's ELC will expire the season after Hall, Eberle, and Paajarvi are re-upped. We may have a very difficult cap situation on the way.

    Of course, this may all be pointless discussion. Despite the pre-draft talk of not rushing the #1 pick, there is little doubt in my mind that RNH gets the 9 game tryout and management decides against sending him down.

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  85. spOILer, the Goodfellas reference was the one that kept up popping up when I googled 'get your shinebox' and I was like 'what the hell does this have to do with Schremp?' I remember the movie well. One of my faves. Ray Liotta's career never again approached that pinnacle, nor Pesci's for that matter though Casino was close.

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  86. I don't know, what about the time Liotta ate his own brain in Hannibal?

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  87. PunjabiOil said...There are several reasons why I'm in favour of sending RNH down to WHL

    As long as none of them are akin to your nonfact based posting re Gagner it's all good.

    Might be a million reasons for sending him down that make sense. Doesn't mean he will be.

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  88. Gagner was used as an example - rushed into the NHL before he was fully ready to contribute.

    Get over it.

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