The Oilers and their fans suffered through the growing pains. The Ducks stand to reap the benefits of all that learning on the job, and are paying Cogliano well to fill a role in their top 9.
It's a pretty nice landing for the former first rounder.
As an aside, if Steve Tambellini had signed this contract, I suspect Oiler Nation would be rushing to the internet to express their displeasure at the signing. Agreed?
Soft landing indeed. Wonder what the taxes are like in cali? I believe AB has the lowest rates in Canada - wonder if they compare?
ReplyDeleteThat's a bad contract. Bad. I'm happy Tambi moved him as that money will shortly be needed for players who can actually score.
ReplyDeleteA lot of money for a guy with no real skill set besides his skating. Good for Cogs though. Seemed like a nice guy when he was here and hopefully, he'll have a career in Anaheim.
ReplyDeleteToo much money for Cogs. Glad it is the Ducks who anted up and not the Oil.
ReplyDeleteI like that 2nd round pick even more today.
Good for Cogliano...also good for the Oilers if that was what they'd have to pay him.
ReplyDeleteWow, just wow. I loved Cogs as a player and see him having a decent career, but at this stage in his career he is not worth that much. Good on Tambo for getting out of what could have been a sticky situation. But still, good luck to the guy and maybe we can see him back in Oilers silks later in his career (hopefully by which time he'll actually be earning that sizeable amount).
ReplyDelete...and just like Marchant he signs a contract that pays him too much money when he leaves the Oilers. Unlike Marchant, Cogliano didn't earn that contract.
ReplyDeleteIt's a lot of money, to be sure. I still think that the Brule contract sunk Cogliano's future with the Oilers. After adjusting for cap inflation Cogliano is getting a very similar dollar figure to Brule. It is slightly higher but that could reflect other factors, such as Cogliano's lengthier record in terms of games played, as well as his stellar health record.
ReplyDeleteIn any case, the pitchforks would be out for Tambellini if he signed Cogliano to this contract. Especially with the Oilers' current logjam of young players who are scoring/role player tweeners.
As an aside, if Steve Tambellini had signed this contract, I suspect Oiler Nation would be rushing to the internet to express their displeasure at the signing. Agreed?
ReplyDeleteThings would be burning.
RQ's and Tyler's collective heads would explode as some would defend the $.
Somewhere in Phoenix MAP would be weeping.
Off in the distance a dog barked.
LT: Oh and thanks very muchly for answering my question in the previous thread on cheating for offence/defence :) I guess in the UK our equivalent of cheating for offence (in sports such as field hockey at least; football - soccer - has the offside rule to stop that from happening, and in rugby the forward pass rule) is called goalhanging. We wouldn't have an equivalent that I can think of for cheating for defence in "our" sports as football,field hockey and rugby, which all have so many players (11 for the former two, 15 for the latter) on the pitch that it's extremely rare for every single player to have moved up to the other team's half.
ReplyDeleteEric Belanger at $1.75 million per year for 3 years plus a second round pick,
ReplyDeleteor,
Cogs at $2.39 M per year for 3 years.
Well done Tambo.
Eric Belanger at $1.75 million per year for 3 years plus a second round pick,
ReplyDeleteor,
Cogs at $2.39 M per year for 3 years.
Well done Tambo.
Agreed.
If you are going to rip v3.1 for his mistakes, then bouquets for the correct moves are also in order.
@Ducey,
ReplyDeleteIt's not even a close decision. Belanger in a heartbeat. No ill will to Cogs, but he's just not worth those kind of $$$.
If he covers that bet, good on ANA for giving him the opportunity and good on Cogs for making it happen.
Just don't see it happening though. Overpay in my opinion.
Agreed.
ReplyDeleteIf that was the demand then yes. Too much.
I was actually calling $2.25M (on twitter of all places) based on his pts/game vs those of similarly productive players from his draft year. I'm a fricken' hero, I know.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of Twitter, here is an example of a hockey player being perfectly reasonable:
Ryan Whitney
Cool, but they're completely out of their minds. RT @Paneech Team 1260 in Edmonton say if you stay healthy you can get 65 points next year
agreed..
ReplyDelete@ Murat...I wonder what Whitney is scoffing at...staying healthy or the 65 points?
ReplyDeleteJason Blake 4M 16G 16A 2nd line and PP time.
ReplyDeleteA. Cogliano 11G 24A 3rd and 4th line no PP. PK.
Andrew we will pay you to play wing on our 2nd and 3rd lines with some PP time. we saw you got close to 20 goals.
Three year deal according to the tweet, $2.1M. $2.35M and $2.67M.
ReplyDeleteBahahahaha...Wow, indeed.
Hah. I was sorely tempted to make the same joke back at RW about the crazy part being staying healthy.
ReplyDeleteOverpay. Will probably look okay because he's bound to play with Saku and Teemu
ReplyDeletefpb - You mean he isn't demanding to play center in Anaheim?
ReplyDelete*Don't believe ya, Bob Stauffer*
Congrats Cogs! Won the lottery, and gets to go surfing after practice every day.
ReplyDeleteRibs : If alcohol hasn't burned his brain cells, then yes.
ReplyDeleteIf he does, he's pretty damn stupid.
@ fpb...I suspect Cogs will be replacing one of Teemu or Saku before this deal is done.
ReplyDeletejohnnyshaka:
ReplyDeleteHahaha, great point. Who knows, eh? I guess he had options when it came to his scoffing. Either way, he's right.
This is a 'I believe in you' contract.
ReplyDeleteThe Ducks, like many Oiler fans, are wrapped up in what Cogliano achieved as a rookie.
They believe that he was beaten down in Edmonton, that he felt he was not being given a chance to be the offensive player he could be, and that because of this, both his confidence and his motivation was affected.
So, the reclamation project is as follows. Bring the guy in, lock him down with a generous contract, let him have the offensive opportunity that he has always wanted, and then watch him bloom.
I think it's a fairy-tale. I think Cogs has a good bit of ability, but that he may have a stubborn streak that limits his progress.
I suspect that just like most of the Oilers reclamation projects, Cogliano will not fulfill the hope. I expect he will cover the bet and be ok, but that is it.
I wonder if they will get him to switch to wing?
Deslaurier on a one way and Cogliano centering their second line?
ReplyDeleteStill mad about the Cogliano pick being pushed back a year?
Like bookie says (and I don't see a "bookie thingy") I don't think it's entirely inconceivable that Cogliano covers the bet for Anaheim. It's actually a pretty good situation for him - they have an absolutely dominant top line and if he can stay in the top 6 he gets at least one of Selanne/Koivu to play with. I think a 20/20/40 season is perfectly reasonable, which is worth $2.39 to most fanbases. The underlying stuff has been getting better so there's a chance that in 3 years time he helps Anaheim win hockey games.
ReplyDeleteI still don't think he's good enough to fuss over losing and I still don't think he is a great fit in Edmonton. I'm still hoping the 2nd round pick becomes currency in a deal for a top-4 D; until then, Edmonton was made worse on the ice by this trade.
Do they measure shooting percentage in Anaheim? I need to know how the story ends.
ReplyDeletei'm worried Cogs will score a hat trick his 1st game against us, and JDD will be in goal for the win or shutout! ex-Oilers always seem to get us back.
ReplyDeleteAgree with Ducey. Bad signing ANA, good signing ST difference is Belanger is 33 yrs old and will not be here when we get good. Cogs, if he could have gotten to 50% in dot, may have been
ReplyDeleteBut you don't pay your 3rd/4th line centre 2.35m unless he is elite at what he does
I actually think that this contract will work out for the Ducks in the end. Would I have wanted the Oilers to have that contract? No, but that's because his role here was one that he wasn't doing well enough at. However, on another team where perhaps he can show more of his offensive talent and play a more scoring role, it will probably work out just fine.
ReplyDeleteI don't think the Ducks picked him up to be their 3rd or 4th line center. I could be wrong, but if they did, then they are due for disappointment.
If they picked him up to be a top-9 winger, than they will be content with the contract, and fans here will get a look at what he could have been, had we had the room. Just my opinion. Flame away... but I kind of laugh at how fans here once would have cried bloody murder (in years 1 and 2) if Tambellini/Lowe even considered trading him. How quickly they fall..
Again, I don't think it's robbery by the Ducks, by any stretch, but I think Cogliano will earn that contract just fine in the long run. No injury issues, can play a scoring role, and can play a modest, but decent checking role. He'll be fine there.
Cogliano will score more goals than Sam Gagner next year.
ReplyDeleteCogliano will score more goals than Sam Gagner next year.
ReplyDeleteOnce training camp is done, I'll probably be willing to wager on that. Terms can be discussed. A wager of stating something on demand like "you know hockey better than I do" is always fun.
Cash is good too if you want.
I want to sewe probable line mates before wagering, that's why I'd like to wait until TC is over.
You down?
And Gagner will have more points than Cogliano.
ReplyDelete...did anyone else just have deja-vu...?
Well that's an exorbitant rate for Cogliano IMO. Particularly for the role he would have played here.
ReplyDeleteIt's folly to compare the contract Cogliano got with Belanger's deal for many reasons though. I think the prudent approach with Cogliano would have been to continue with one year deals and that would have kept his price down, especially this past year even considering arbitration IMO.
I sometimes wonder if we should be expressing cap hits in terms of 2005 dollars.
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty happy for Cogliano. This is a guy who played on poor teams since he turned pro, was treated like the redheaded stepchild in contract negotiations and really didn't see as many opportunities as he should have (because the team was so bad and breaking in rookies 6 at a time).
ReplyDeleteNice payday, hope he does well.
Good for Cogs...take the money and run...
ReplyDeleteRead this on yahoo sports, obviously written before he signed:
The Ducks are still talking extension with Andrew Cogliano(notes) after trading for him. Word is when he heard the Ducks were working to "draw" up a proposal, he curled up in the fetal position and sobbed uncontrollably for an hour.
Oh snap!!
Have been a big fan of Cogs and am very happy for him. He needed a fresh start and this gives him one.
ReplyDeleteMaybe he does score more than Gagner next season. Anything's possible - injury, Cogs could have a shooting percentage similar to his first year, we don't know.
But if we'd given him those kind of dollars, everyone - even Traktor and DSF would be complaining (rightly so) about the terms and dollars. Cogs hasn't done anything yet to justify - but he's taking advantage of the market so good on him.
I'll take Belander and his term tho over Cogs when you consider the roster make-up 2, 3 years from now. In this regard, 3.1 is showing proper restraint.
The Ducks definitely seem to be heading in the wrong direction since their Cup run. To be fair, that team was a house of cards ready to collapse given the relatively advanced age of so many key contributors, but they've systematically killed their depth beyond the top line of Getzlaf, Perry and Ryan. Fowler and Hiller may turn out to be solid replacements for Niedermayer and Giguere respectively, but they need their forward prospects to start making an impact asap. Perry won't give them a Hart worthy performance every season.
ReplyDeleteThe contract is a bit steep, but I could see him being worth that kind of money by the time this contract is up. It just seems odd that they'd give it to him now.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, good for him. He should have a lot more opportunity in Anaheim and I hope he makes the most of it.
With Foster and now Cogliano, the Ducks may not be getting our best players, but they sure got a couple of top notch people.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the Cogs contract, the question seems to be is he the next Dean McAmmond or the next Dan Cleary? My gut says McAmmond and better the Ducks taking the cap hit than the Oil.
ReplyDeleteWhich begs the question, how much of Cleary's late development was related to playing in the Red Wings' org? Devereax, Maltby. Hockeytown seems to have better luck than most with Oiler retreads.
Lee: That's an excellent comparable and I agree. Hadn't thought of it that way, but that's the argument in a nutshell.
ReplyDeleteCogs will do just fine in Anaheim.
ReplyDeleteHe's being paid for a top six offensive role and not having a defensive/checking/faceoff responsibilities forced on him that he's ill-suited to.
Even though the Oilers sold low to avoid RFA, I guess it's a testament to the quality offensive depth on the Oilers that Cogs couldn't crack the top 6.
Before we do handsprings, look at some of the other contracts around here: Horcoff $5.5M for 4 more seasons, Gilbert $4M for 3 more seasons.
Rick, 4 million is market value for a reasonable top four defenceman. The Gilbert contract has never really been out of whack. the problem is that they aren't spend 4 or 5 million on at least one more defenceman in the range of a Tom Gilbert.
ReplyDeleteI saw progress in him this year. I'm not proclaiming any guarantees like some prophet, but I think that there's a chance he'll be back in our faces, like Marchant.
ReplyDeleteCogs is a quality player who will play in the NHL for a long time IMO. Might not have fit with the oil here and now, but we will see him play for years and have many "remember when" moments.
ReplyDeleteThe contract seems goofy but I say its even money or better that he covers the bet. Traktor is likely right for two reasons. Ex Sudbury Wolve Carlyle loves to match and so Cogs is going to get buttery soft minutes. And he'll probably get good linemates as well because Anaheim has some good players.
ReplyDeleteRemember when Cole was here and everyone was screaming how terrible he was? Some of that was bad luck and some of that was playing a good part of the season against toughs with Moreau and Brodziak. Not going to score a lot in those circumstances. Then he got to play his natural position with Gagner and a LW with some talent - maybe Nilsson? Can't recall. Anyhow lo and behold suddenly he started scoring. Imagine.
I would not be surprised if he does ok. Of course there's another part of me thta thinks he's Ken Yaremchuk. Buddy could skate forever, he must have grown up on a river. But fuck he could not play the game.
Guess we'll see.
I expect Cogs will thrive under the coaching and mentorship of Marchant.
ReplyDeleteWith his disdain for Lowe, Marchant will be motivated.
Playing in Anaheim under Carlyle should see Andrew reac his potential.
Dave Keon here folks.
Rick: I agree 100% with all of that.
ReplyDeleteThing about Anaheim is they had exactly two centres who scored more than one goal last year. Getzlaf, SKoivu, and not much else. I see Cogs in the top 9 and still as a pivot on that depth chart.
ReplyDeleteNice parachute for him, going from this mess to a playoff team with a gaping hole down the middle and room on the budget for an overpay.
One other thought is given Cogs' asking price it's very possible the Oil would have walked from an arbitrator's decision. That second-rounder looks good compared to what the Oil would have garnered from a walkwaway scenario.
Cogs will be a very interesting player to watch out there on the coast. Two very different views of his value.
Dawn: I can get behind the statement that Gilbert is a "top 4" defenseman. Or more specifically, I think he's a second pairing defenseman. Taking that into account, there are only two teams in the NHL that have their "3rd highest paid d-man" (i.e. the top 2nd pairing price, although not every team would pay their top guys the highest money) making more money than Gilbert. Those teams are: Toronto with 4.2M for Liles (which I think is crazy) and Vancouver with 4.2M for Ballard. Most other players are under 3M per year, many under 2M per year.
ReplyDeleteI think Gilbert is paid top pairing money, but plays a 2nd pairing game. So I'd side with Rick on that one. But this Gilbert debate is a bit old now anyways, I would say.
Re Cogs: Of course everyone would be pissed; but good luck to the shmuck anyway. Expect him to play decently to well on a so-so Ducks team.
ReplyDeleteHave been watching the latest 1st pick on Youtube, and WOW have the Oilers got themselves a player.
Nugent-Hopkins scores the same kind of goals as Gretzky used to. Intelligent, timed perfectly to look simple, or else outstanding blasts from outside the zone.
For everyone obsessed with scoring goals, it's only a matter of time before Hall+the others mature then explode ala the early 70's Buffalo Sabres.
ReplyDeleteGive them the 2008(?) Oilers defence foursome(or equivalent) of Souray/Gilbert/Vishnovsky/Grebeshkov), plus Andy Moog and suddenly a top 3 finish no longer appears out of the question.
DSF said:
ReplyDeleteWith his disdain for Lowe, Marchant will be motivated.
Huh? What distain? He had his best year offensively with the Oilers and then went on to get big bucks with CLB. If he is miffed, he is likely miffed at Doug McLean who then waived him a year later.
Plus, it has been 9 years since he was an Oiler and he has now retired.
I expect that he will be motivated by other things other than some twisted desire to stick it to the Oilers by improving Cog's game.
Marchant sounded quite positive about his time in Edmonton in his retirement remarks, though he talked more about the compete level than the people involved. In retrospect, his contract makes my head spin.
ReplyDeleteSometimes for a guy like Cogs a fresh set of circumstances / mentors can tip the balance. Fans sometimes become confused about frustration vs distance (as magnified by impatience).
Sometimes a shrewd GM pays a player for fitting the glove rather than underlying numbers. Would Anaheim prefer Belanger over Cogs, considering their situation?
This is the other thing about markets: value is determined by the buyer willing to pay the most, taking into account that they might be paying for fit over commodity dictates.
In a perfect market, every player would be earning more than any other team wishes to pay for him. That is (one side of) the definition of a perfect market. Perhaps this is an element of why arbitration often comes down on the generous side.
The arbitration mechanism was added to the CBA in part as a defense against coming under scrutiny of anti-cartel labour law.
It also adds to the generally negative perception of GM competence, if the GM is being far more realistic behind the scenes concerning likely arbitration outcomes, which many fans reject on a purely emotional level.
Agreed. Good on Cogs, I like the guy and am a fan. That being said the contract is not one I think would be good for the Oilers.
ReplyDeleteDMW,
ReplyDeleteWhere's the poetry?
Where's the imagery?
Where's the bizarre allusions?
I'm very disappointed in your well thought out and written post.
BROADWAY!
ReplyDeleteI have often walked down this street before;
But the pavement always stayed beneath my feet before.
All at once am I Several stories high.
Knowing I'm on the street where you live.
Are there lilac trees in the heart of town?
Can you hear a lark in any other part of town?
Does enchantment pour Out of ev'ry door?
No, it's just on the street where you live!
And oh! The towering feeling
Just to know somehow you are near.
The overpowering feeling
That any second you may suddenly appear!
People stop and stare. They don't bother me.
For there's no where else on earth that I would rather be.
Let the time go by, I won't care if I
Can be here on the street where you live.
I think you forgot the part where the lion fights the computers, too. What the heck.
ReplyDeleteLT
ReplyDeleteStauffer just "strongly" recommended Nationradio hire Robin Brownlee as a co-host.
Think Bob is onto something: hiring a Co-host is a great idea but I would suggest that it be on OilersLunch.
Very pleased with set up of Nationradio as is
Hmmm... Brownlee just had an entire ON post which was essentially market research on Edmonton Sports Radio.
ReplyDeleteOne of the things I try to do on Nation Radio is have people on that aren't part of the weekly programming of the station and are perhaps not in msm.
ReplyDeleteNow, I'm not the only guy involved in picking guests so who knows? I haven't discussed a co-host and would imagine that ON would approach me on it before it hit Bob's show.
Stamkos deal is done-5 years $37.5M per TSN.
ReplyDeleteLT,
ReplyDeleteWill Gabe ever make it on the show?
I've had him on a couple of time iirc. One of the first shows for sure.
ReplyDeleteNow, I'm not the only guy involved in picking guests so who knows? I haven't discussed a co-host and would imagine that ON would approach me on it before it hit Bob's show.
ReplyDeleteI just checked TreenasOil and there is nothing on it there, so everything is probably fine.
In a parallel universe where the average NHL player is 5'6", Cogliano instantly blooms as a power forward. In reality, the reason he never got hurt is he plays the game like any small man - with one eye always on survival - then it all really screws up.
ReplyDeleteHe will definitely have a big game or two against the Oilers, just the same.
Speaking of former players haunting us - what about the Stars getting Souray!?
Traktor: You're seriously telling us Cogliano is superior to Gagner?
ReplyDeleteLT - No mainstream co-hosts, don't do it. The format is excellent. As little of the cliche radio-duo fake-fight BS as possible.
ReplyDeleteI felt it was somewhat awkward that Stauffer made that suggestion.
Nevermind Cogs being better than Gagner, did DSF really suggest that he's about to blossom into a Dave Keon comparable? Really?
ReplyDeleteSo you're anticipating an upswing that will carry Andrew Cogliano all the way to the Hockey Hall of Fame?
Wow. Just wow.
The Stamkos contract seems to be a minor mark on Yzerman's record as a GM. He got taken to the cleaners on term and money.
ReplyDeleteStamkos is essentially getting something in the area of 10% less than what he'd get on the UFA market, yet only gives up one UFA year. After that he's free to set his own price at the age of 26.
I can't see how this deal makes sense for the Lightning unless Stamkos suggested he had a better offer sheet already lined up. If you're going to pay your young star like an UFA, at least structure the term so that you maintain your rights over the asset. I find it odd that they couldn't agree on something like a 3 year 25 million deal or a lengthy Philly-style contract.
This deal is setting a bad precedent for Taylor Hall two years from now.
The Oilers couldn't offer that term or that money to Cogliano but from Anaheim's perspective, it is NOT a horrid contract. From the Oilers perspective it would have been a horrid contract.
ReplyDeleteThe Ducks have a gap they need to fill. Cogliano helps fills that gap.
Is it an slight overpay dollar wise? Yes, but the three year term hedges their cost. They will never have to renegotiate or be taken to arbitration if Cogliano out performs with protected soft minutes (when you have a line matching coach).
"Traktor: You're seriously telling us Cogliano is superior to Gagner?"
ReplyDeleteI said he would score more goals than Gagner.
But yes, I think he's a better overall player as well.
The problem with Gagner is he's been signing the same off-tune song for years and once the 6th overall luster fades away he isn't going to have much to fall back on.
As to the Stamkos deal, the player gets to decide term.
ReplyDeleteShort deal from Yzerman's perspective too risky without knowing what the new CBA will say. And you can't force a player to sign the moronic deal Ovechkin signed. There is also a limit how many years one can buy insurance for.
At five years, Yzerman will get to figure out how much of Stamkos is just St. Louis being a marvellous player. And five years gives him enough time to demonstrate to Stamkos that Tampa is the place he should want to play his entire career.
Doubt a change of scenery is going to make a dumb hockey player smart.
ReplyDeleteLT
ReplyDeleteStauffer just "strongly" recommended Nationradio hire Robin Brownlee as a co-host.
Think Bob is onto something: hiring a Co-host is a great idea but I would suggest that it be on OilersLunch.
Very pleased with set up of Nationradio as is
LT,
Please push back against a co-host.
The lack of Brownlee/Gregor/Spector types on a regular basis is a plus in my opinion.
Those guys are ok and have their place, and are on the radio lots already.
Nationradio is excellent in its current format.
Traktor,
So, you down with a wager after TC? It doesn't have to be money.
I may not want to wager if Cogs is playing with Koivu and Selanne, so waiting for TC makes sense so there is as close to full info available before the wager.
As to the Stamkos deal, the player gets to decide term.
ReplyDeleteHow so? The player gets to decide the term just as much as they get to decide any other aspect of their contract through negotiations with management.
Short deal from Yzerman's perspective too risky without knowing what the new CBA will say.
I doubt that's the case. The new CBA is not going to change the forces at work in a negotiation between an agent and management. Salary numbers may change as a result of changes to the cap or escrow, but that will all be relative anyway. There haven't been any suggestions of change to the structuring of free agency rights with the new CBA, but even if there is I very much doubt that Stamkos will tragically become a free agent overnight. Especially if TB was to retain his rights a year or two further.
At five years, Yzerman will get to figure out how much of Stamkos is just St. Louis being a marvellous player.
Stamkos is a top three goal scorer in the NHL. I think TB knows what they have in him.
And five years gives him enough time to demonstrate to Stamkos that Tampa is the place he should want to play his entire career.
Stamkos has been living in TB for the past 3 years, he probably knows what it is like to live and play there. Him signing a hard-fought deal that pays him like an UFA and takes him right to UFA seems to hint at his priorities. Not faulting the guy in the slightest, but it doesn't seem like helping the hometown team was a big consideration for his side.
$7.5M for 5 years for a guy that can be named along with Ovechkin and Crosby?
ReplyDeleteI don't see why people think that's a bad contract. He's on the cusp of breaking 100 pts, folks! Good teammates help, but I think he's a hell of a player.
I could only hope that Hall becomes the same kind of player Stamkos is now... if he does, I'd be perfectly fine with $7.5M for him. Talent like that doesn't grow on trees.
Sorry, LT, not being in Edmonton, my listenership has been sporadic at best, especially at the outset when there were some long delays.
ReplyDeleteI do like the fact the podcasts are in segments so I can pick and choose what I want to listen to.
I'm with the rest on the co-host idea, although I imagine there's a lot of pressures on your time, so if a co-host would help cut into the amount of work you put into your hobby every week, I'd totally understand.
//The new CBA is not going to change the forces at work in a negotiation between an agent and management. Salary numbers may change as a result of changes to the cap or escrow, but that will all be relative anyway.//
ReplyDeleteCap dollars are not "real" dollars. I think a significant junk of escrow now goes unrefunded. So in real dollars, Stamkos is probably receiving more like $7 million per season, not $7.5.
Second, in the last CBA, there was a salary rollback. I forget the percentage. To realign cap dollars and real dollars in the next CBA, there may well be another rollback. No elite player with a brain is going to lock into a 15 year contract.
Yzerman also has no track record.
godot: I don't think I agree with that. You're definitely right that cap dollars aren't reflective of actual dollar values as a result of escrow (which is a much bigger chunk than you've estimated, it's shocking actually), but that's sort of beside the point. Changes in escrow or roll-backs will, in theory, affect all players equally regardless of whether they are signed long or short term.
ReplyDeleteI just think that this variation of the "Crosby contract" isn't wise for TB and Stamkos. Crosby is unlikely to leave Pittsburgh for a number of reasons. Perhaps that played into giving him a five year contract after his ELC.
Stamkos is probably making close to fair market value, but I think it will be an error on Yzerman's part to negotiate a contract for that amount and also not retain the player's rights.
spOILer: No worries. If I was any kind of friend and promoter I would have found it for you:
ReplyDeletehttp://oilersnation.com/2011/3/3/nation-radio-february-19-2011
Traktor:
ReplyDeleteWe can agree to disagree on Gagner for now, who I still think blossoms into a legitimate top 6 player either this season or next.
I'm hedging all bets until I see R N-H back with the teenagers.
What does Traktor think of Ryan Nugent Hopkins? From Youtube highlights the kid reminds me of Gretzky.
Instead of hiring brownlee you could hire a random hobo.
ReplyDeleteWill be much more entertaining.
Instead of hiring brownlee you could hire a random hobo.
ReplyDeleteWill be much more entertaining.
It certainly would be. To quote Chris Rock "tell us more of your cracky tales!"
Cogs = Keon..........that dream (and I shared in it) died a long long time ago.
ReplyDeleteAt this point in time he's more like a poor man's Marchant (similar offense but much less defensive awareness) and he's no kid anymore so it's unclear where the upside comes from. At some point you are what you are - but good for Cogs to cash in before the NHL at large realizes his limitations.
Asiaoil just nailed it.
ReplyDelete@ducey
ReplyDeleteHad a long chat with Marchant shortly before he left.
He was venomous.
The Internet is hilariously full of people who make outrageous claims.
ReplyDelete@FPB
ReplyDeleteHobo?
No such thing these days, other than on Mark Knopfler albums.
Brownlee is no hobo.
http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=56418
One of my fave moments from last seasons futility was watching Cogliano lose his man, the puck goes in the net, and that absolutely baffled look in his otherwise vacant eyes.
ReplyDeleteHow far the man fell from that high of posing nude with Souray and Moreau.
My first time as a guest of the LT show will be Brownlee's first show!!!
ReplyDeleteBook it?
My permanent memory of Cogs will be him manfully approaching potentially rough house situations, then purposely turning away, before bravely skating away from anything remotely approaching danger.
ReplyDeletePriceless.
There's his deadly shot close in to mention, but there are so fucking many others on the 30th place dynasty lol.
DSF said:
ReplyDelete@ducey
Had a long chat with Marchant shortly before he left.
He was venomous.
Oh yeah, that was back when you were dating Pamela Anderson, right?
When you have the long chat where Marchant says he is going to magically turn Cogs into a top third line center just to screw over the Oilers, let us know.
lol were the venomous statements before or after he remarked how big and strong you had become.
ReplyDeleteLike bookie says (and I don't see a "bookie thingy") I don't think it's entirely inconceivable that Cogliano covers the bet for Anaheim.
ReplyDeleteSure, but "not entirely inconceivable that the bet is covered" is a pretty low threshold for evaluating a contract.
And I'm not so sure that it's not inconceivable - I was discussing Cogliano with DSF recently, and he was venomous.
Christ, is anyone calm?
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm not so sure that it's not inconceivable - I was discussing Cogliano with DSF recently, and he was venomous.
ReplyDeleteWas Pamela Anderson in the room?
Christ, is anyone calm?
ReplyDeleteSorry, I may have been unclear: DSF was completely calm, it's just that he was a rattlesnake.
Oh. He's a rabbit at my house.
ReplyDeleteDamned Sylvilagus Floridanus!
ReplyDeleteWe'll I'm perfectly calm but it would seem those who have never had the opportunity to talk to an actual NHL player seem to be a little breathless.
ReplyDeleteWe were neighbours...ran into him at M & M Meatshop.
So many ideas... Only one aisle
DSF served that up like he was from the Blue Jays bullpen. Magi batting lead off and Smith batting clean up.
ReplyDeleteNo DSF. Nobody was impressed with your lame name dropping.
ReplyDeleteDid he order those bacon wrapped things?
ReplyDeleteThe funny thing is that if I were to put money on it, I'd bet that DSF actually did have this conversation. But you've got to realize that pseudonymously claiming credentials (broadly defined), especially with faux-non-chalance, makes you look like a tool.
ReplyDeletelol. I met Mark Messier once, at the old CFRN building.
ReplyDeleteNoreen Lodge was the receptionist and I worked on air (this was spring 1984), this would have been a little before 2pm (my on air shift in the basement of CFRN would have started a little while later).
Anyway, Noreen was a good person to talk to before going on air, she had a way of knowing all kinds of things that were relatable to an audience (house stuff, gardens, things I didn't have a clue about but the audience would be familiar with) so I'd chat with her for a little while before going on.
This one day, Mark Messier pulls up in a brand new Porsche and strides into the building. Noreen asks him to wait for someone from TV to come down and get him, and he slides into the chair opposite me in the lobby.
Me: Nice vehicle.
Messier: Yeah, just picked it up 20 minutes ago.
Me: Bet you can't wait to get it out on the highway......
Messier: Oh, I've taken it out on the highway.
True story.
Did he order those bacon wrapped things?
ReplyDeleteUm, who doesn't?
Just try to show me a form of food that can't be made better by at least one of the following methods:
- bacon wrapping
- deep-frying
- addition of gravy
- addition of cheese
- wrapping it in a crepe
- sauteing in booze of some sort
Or, for desserts:
- adding chocolate sauce
- serving "a la mode"
Most foods qualify under at least three of these methods.
I definitely like our 'take a chance' contract better.
ReplyDeleteCam Barker has one year to impress and we certainly need defencemen.
The bet I like is who will be more coveted in 3 years?
Cogs or Barker.
We'll I'm perfectly calm but it would seem those who have never had the opportunity to talk to an actual NHL player seem to be a little breathless.
ReplyDeleteWe were neighbours...ran into him at M & M Meatshop.
So many ideas... Only one aisle
Jesus DSF. Are you creating your own greatest hits now? Doesn't seem fair.
ReplyDeleteI'm loving the direction of the discussion here today.
ReplyDeleteThe Ducks are setting themselves up for disappointment with this contract, playing second line minutes aren't suddenly going turn Cogliano's hands into warm soft butter.
Cogliano will continue to lose faceoffs and get pushed around, not because he doesn't work hard, but just lacks the strength and skill to make a difference.
@LT
ReplyDeleteAs serendipity would have it...I just spent a couple of hours with the former GM of the Kitchener Rangers who was also the head of development for Hockey Canada and then an assistant with the NYR.
I'm all but certain no one here would like to hear hIs take on Sam Gagner's sense of entitlement, Tambellini's smarts or why Chorney, Petry , Whitney and Smid should all be in the remainder bin.
BTW.....the word is the Oilers are trying to dump Gagner before the whole league figures him out.
Straight from Renney's mouth.
Dumb contract by Ducks. If they see Cogliano having upside, they look at a 5-6 year deal at ~2M/year.
ReplyDeleteRight now they're paying premium dollars for 3 RFA years. When his contract ends, he becomes a UFA and his salary becomes the starting point (if all goes well).
Happy for Cogliano though. He's set for life, economically speaking.
One of my fave moments from last seasons futility was watching Cogliano lose his man, the puck goes in the net, and that absolutely baffled look in his otherwise vacant eyes.
ReplyDeleteThe worst that I can remember was when he was trying to contain Joe Thornton in front of the Oil net and Jumbo Joe just pushed him over with one hand and assisted on the ensuing goal. There was absolutely nothing Cogliano could have done in the situation. He was just too small.
My fave was when little Sam tried so hard to avoid a check in the neutral zone that he face planted into the boards.
ReplyDeleteMuch hilarity ensued.
You're right, DSF. They probably shouldn't try to turn Gagner into a checking center either.
ReplyDelete