Smyth, Belanger get a thumb's up, Barker and Cogliano are mixed reviews and it's difficult to find anyone who sees the acquisition of Ben Eager, Darcy Hordichuk and Andy Sutton as a positive.
I have a question: why?
Why have we decided that the decision to sign Ben Eager was a poor one? Coach Tom Renney has shown a clear preference to have enforcers available to him, going back to his days as a NY Ranger coach.
So, with that in mind Steve Tambellini offloaded Steve MacIntyre, Zack Stortini, JF Jacques, Jason Strudwick and Jim Vandermeer (among others) and brought in new hires. Almost without exception (I think you can argue Vandermeer is a better hockey player than Sutton) the new hires are better actual hockey players than the ones sent away.
So my question is this: do you object to the presence of so many enforcer types, or do you think the Oilers should have kept Jacques, Stortini, MacIntyre and the rest? Knowing that the head coach wants these role player types?
--
I'm with you on roster makeup. Ideally the Oilers would have an extreme powerplay than severely punished evildoers everywhere. And I understand the idea of each player being able to handle themselves, and someday that may be the case.
But I'll say this: As much as I liked JF Jacques as a prospect, his injuries made him a lesser player by the time he made the NHL. His inability to make a crisp pass or cradle one was so galling it was the most difficult thing for me to watch in a long, difficult season (seriously); Steve MacIntyre had similar and more severe problems. Jason Strudwick was routinely beaten off the rush left and right to the point where he became a nightly "also in photo" candidate.
I dream of the day when the Oilers have 12 forwards who can play the game skillfully, but it's not going to happen. The Boys on the Bus had their enforcers and this team of young skilled kids will also have them.
So why do I get the feeling most people hate these signings/trades for more able bodied men who fill a role the coach wants for his team? Isn't the issue more roster makeup than about these players?
Understanding that these men were on the shopping list and are clearly better than what the Oilers had a year ago, how does one blame Steve Tambellini for doing the job asked of him?
I, for one, loved the signing of Ben Eager and Darcy Hordichuk. Being able to hit and distract is as much of a skill as dangling and skating.
ReplyDeleteThis year the Oilers will have a chance to throw other teams off of their games instaed of it always happening to them.
AND they can take a pass and make a pass. Hell Eager can even play the game well enough to move up the depth chart if required. I was quite surprised with his signing in a good way.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, the PK better be a helluva lot better. :-)
Eager was the #1 4th liner/agitator I was hoping they would go after, so when they got him, needless to say, I was ecstactic.
ReplyDeleteAs for the PK, I'm hoping that's where Belanger and Sutton make their biggest contributions. Belanger's faceoff prowess should help that out. Goaltending is still a large concern and could negate all of that though.
I am a big fan of the signings of Eager and Hordichuk. People look at the meltdown Eager had against the Canucks and I say that is exactly what I want to see.
ReplyDeleteThe first guy who takes a run at one of the kids will know this about Eager - he will go right back at their star players. He's not shy, he's an agitator and he isn't afraid to be noticed. He also doesn't need to hide behind Hordichuk.
We finally have a 4th line with some sandpaper and grit. A welcome change in my view.
LT,
ReplyDeleteTyler mentioned it was a shame that he couldn't discuss the arena proposal with you on your radio show this week as it wasn't the slated topic.
I mentioned that if you had both he and David Staples on your show to debate the arena, it would make for some great radio.
He asked me to mention it to you this morning in a thread, so:
LT,
Please have Tyler and David Staples on your radio show to debate the arena proposal in the near future.
I'm definitely in favour of the new hires, at least in comparison to who they're replacing. Eager is an underestimated hockey player and skilled agitator, and I'm particularly glad we got him.
ReplyDeleteWith Hordichuk, if you're gonna have an enforcer, might as well be one who like you say can take and make a pass. He's not a "good" player and he's not the best enforcer, but that was the problem: SMac was TOO tough. Hordichuk is kind of a tweener in that he's tough but other guys will fight him, and he's a little like Eager in that he can get guys off their game whilst not hurting you as bad as SMac did.
I like the Sutton trade. Could Foster have had a better year here than last? Maybe, maybe not. Might as well get a guy for him where you pretty much know what you're gonna get. I think it's underestimated what kind of a mentorship Sutton will bring for our D-Corps. The forwards have Smyth. Now the Blue have Sutton. Past his prime, for sure, probably a healthy scratch many nights, but he's been around the block a few times, is still better than Strudwick and tougher, and can show the likes of Peckham how to do his job.
I'm probably one of the few who likes all Tambo's moves so far this off-season. I wish it wasn't such a logjam up front, and I wish Cogliano could have been packaged for another d-man, but other than that, moderately satisfied.
Count me as another big fan of Eager and Hordichuk. In my mind one of the biggest aspects we have been missing on the Oilers has been an Eager type. He is the spark, agitator Steve Ott type I've yearned for. Hordichuk is an upgrade on Mac so that can only been seen as a positive.
ReplyDeleteYes, Vandermeer is probably better than Sutton. But I'd take Sutton and Barker over Vandermeer and Foster everyday.
The moves that have been made have been positive and have made the Oilers a better team, the naysayers WILL be shocked this winter.
I too liked the Eager and Hordichuk signings. It's time for other teams around the league to have their faces pressed into the glass.
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers have needed these kind of players for awhile. Guys that play on the edge and step over the line from time to time.
Stortini was ineffective in this role. Sure he could yap but he was too honest. He would never cheap shot a guy and that's what this is really about. Mac was the same thing and nobody would fight him anyway.
Hopefully these two guys can have some opposing players looking over their shoulders and worrying about other things rather than just playing the game.
Love signing of BE and DH for our 4th line and Sutton cannot be as bad as Foster. Not possible!
ReplyDeleteLove to hear a Dellow/Staples debate on various governments being asked to contribute $350 million to a new arena. If that goes ahead, suggest Gary Lamphier would be another good participant or as a subsequent guest. He is plugged into the DT business community and may add some very interesting perspective
Could not imagine the Oilers will be pleased with Nationradio if you have these people on to discuss public funding of a new new arena.
a few things. Eager fills anneeded role. He can actually play, knows his role and has just enough crazy to keep the opposition on their toes. We haven't had that in a long time. Hordichuk will play 35 games to send a message. no biggie.
ReplyDeletethe biggest move may end up being Sutton. Someone yesterday had a bunch of stats to show how he has played top 4 mins up until last year. Now he may fall off the ledge ala commodore, but for this team to succeed he may be forced to play huge minutes. Can it happen? Sure. Is it likely? doubtful. But if he steps up and plays a shut down role along with Whitney, then this team just got better, you can wait on Petry and you can shelter Barker and Peckham on the 3rd pairing.
So far I'm happy with the moves. As mentioned by many, pick up Hannan or a better top 4 option then Sutton/Barker, and address goaltending and Tambellini gets a gold star.
and on that note Alzner signed a two year deal as per TSN. no details, but they are over the cap so unless Poti goes on LTIR or they move Semin, expect the Mike Green trade scenarios to continue.
Not sure where you're getting the info (radio, ON?) but everyone I've spoken with, and my personal opinion, is that the Hord/Eager signings were exactly what the team need, with Sutton being >or= Foster with Barker getting the PP time. Sutton would be a mentor, 6'6" nuclear threat if necessary.
ReplyDeleteeveryone who came in to play whack-a-mole has more hockey skill than those we sent out -- i think sutton has more chops than vandy.
ReplyDeleteright now the only real objections you can have as a fan are philosophical because you are against "pugilism".
the dissapointing part is that no skill was added in addition to these parts. if we had all this muscle and added a hannah type i don't think many would complain at all.
I'm all for the Eager and Hordichuk signings, especially Eager.
ReplyDeleteWasn't Eager the guy that the analysts were saying that Chicago really missed in the series against Vancouver this year? They mentioned how much he was able to get the Sisters off their game... I'm seriously looking forward to those shennanigans.
I even like the Barker signing because it's a short term risk on a young talented guy who has a lot to prove.
Sutton - meh. I wish they would've got a better veteran Dman, but he can't be worse than one of Strudwick or Foster.
If they could sign Hannan to even a one year deal, it would sure make this D group a whole lot more attractive...
Hi LT, longtime reader of the blog (and comments) and I catch your show occasionally as I'm in Edmonton every other weekend (unfortunately I live in Calgary at the moment). Just wanted to say I love the show.
ReplyDeleteI actually quite like these signings for a couple reasons. First, they are definitely upgrades as players. Eager & Hordichuk can take a normal (4th line) shift; and they can forecheck and hit and agitate without fighting and still be effective. They are also instigators, I like the fact that they can go crazy sometimes, a little unpredictability is good.
Sutton I think will surprise people, I think he had an off year, he was effective in the couple years before that playing some tough minutes, is huge, and is nasty. Anyone else remember that hit when he was with the Sens in the playoffs? I can't remember who he crushed, but it was a huge hit. He was someone I hoped the Oilers had signed the couple times he was a free agent.
Barker I think is a gamble, but for one year, I think its a decent gamble. He will either help make the power play a weapon or he'll be a warm body on the bench. Only way we will find out is watching the season unfold.
Belanger, in my opinion, will be the best signing. Finally, someone to take faceoffs and PK, and he can chip in some points. I think we got our Marty Reasoner type a lot of people, including myself, felt the team needed.
Individually, I actually like the signings.
ReplyDeleteSutton was falling out of favor in Anaheim, so it's questionable whether he'll work out here, but I thought Kurtis Foster was atrocious. So getting anything for him is a win, in my opinion. Sutton should bring something along the lines of Jim Vandermeer.
Ben Eager and Darcy Hordichuk.. I like the signings individually, but I also kind of wonder if I really want to see a 4th line that has either or both of them on it, or if I want to see something like Hartikainen Brule Jones. Or Hartikainen Belanger Jones.
Barker... I really like that pick up. One year deal... potential is high... although he could bomb too, but the risk is low since it's a one year deal.
Smyth was a fantastic pick up and just what the team needs right now.
Belanger was also a wonderful pick up, that is probably 3 years too late. The length / term of this contract does scare me a bit, but at least I know we *shouldn't* have to worry about faceoffs too much for a few years.
Seeing Cogliano go.. mixed feelings. Needed to go because he no longer fits here, but I think he's a better top six (maybe 9) winger than he is a 3rd line center.
All that was needed to really impress me was to pick up an NHL goaltender to share duties with Dubnyk.
I have no problem with either the Eager or Hordichuk signings. They're upgrades on the previous tennants of those roster spots, and any time you upgrade, you're getting better.
ReplyDeleteThe question is how much are they going to improve the Oilers' situation, if at all? Upgrading the bottom of the roster only improves that area. What we should be trying to do is make moves that upgrade the top of the roster, which, in turn, upgrades everything else as well.
That's why the Belanger and Smyth moves were so much better.
the Sutton/Foster/Barker/Vandermeer thing just seemed like a GM making moves for the sake of making moves. It's like trading in your blue '88 Dodge Aries for a red one. Same thing, just a different look, and at the end of the day, you're still driving a peice of junk.
ReplyDeleteI too like the signing of Eager. Not so sure of Hordichuck. Tend to think his style of play is out of date. But I have no problem what so ever with Eager. He can be a bad boy, but he can play hockey!
ReplyDeleteCogliano was disappointing, but it's probably a deal that would've had to be made sooner or later. Ideally, we would've kept him for this coming season either as the 4C or 13th forward, and made the deal next offseason, but I guess there's no guaratee we could've got the return we did at that time.
ReplyDeleteIt's not the end of the world, but also it's just another shot to our already dreadful PK.
...I guess I didn't need to make 3 seperate posts for that.
I know from living in Van, that Eager was definitely under the skin and in the heads of the Canucks until he had his meltdown in the SJ series.
ReplyDeleteHowever, in fairness to him his coach kept trowing him over the boards when all could see the meltdown was coming and other than Clowe he didn't have much help in the physical side of that series. When with Chicago he was an effective pain in the ass who contributed to wins.
Woodguy: I have actually requested both Tyler and David to be on the show (haven't seen confirmation yet) and will talk about the arena issue (that item came up later on).
ReplyDeleteAs for a debate, that isn't the format we'll use. There are technical reasons and practical ones I can get into but I'm typing this from work and need to do my job.
Having said that, I welcome questions for either David or Tyler to present to them.
From what I have read all of the free agent movement was seen as a positive with the exception of the Cogliano situation being mixed.
ReplyDeleteI believe Belanger is the biggest signing with a close second being Eager. The Oilers needed a level of unpredictability and they got it with Eager.
So why do I get the feeling most people hate these signings/trades for more able bodied men who fill a role the coach wants for his team?
ReplyDeleteGiven all the comments here, the feeling was just gas.
I liked the Ben Eager signing.
ReplyDeleteI heart the Eager and Hordichuk signings as well.
ReplyDeletedohfOs: I would actually suggest that Hordichuk's "style" is less out of date. Problem with him though is the injuries kind of keep him from doing it on a regular basis. But he's a guy that likes to crash and bang a lot and make it hard for other players on the ice to play their game without looking over their shoulders.
ReplyDeleteThat's how he plays when he's 100%, anyways. Add to that, he also has the toughness and is always willing to stand up for teammates. I think he'll be a good guy to have in the line up from time to time. My only concern with him is whether he'll end up in the box too much, or, just as bad, out of the line up with some form of injury. But having Eager as well provides a bit more assurance that there will be a tough guy available most nights.
mirtle James Mirtle
ReplyDeletePanthers sign Erik Gudbranson and the Devils sign Adam Larsson. Both on entry level deals.
27 minutes ago
My two cents: People are looking at the roster moves in the context of a narrative: what do these moves say about Edmonton's rebuild?
ReplyDeleteSmyth landed on Tambellini's lap. You can't blame the GM for that (like it seems some have done), nor can you especially credit him (as it seems to me many have done). That said, I think we all looked at this acquisition positively and the important thing is that many of us hoped that it signalled a major change – we all hoped that it was time for Edmonton to start adding real pieces to its roster.
The additions of Eager and Hordichuk certainly improve the 4th line. Barker and Sutton seems like ok options for the bottom pairing. This will probably help Edmonton, but for anyone looking through the “it’s time to add pieces” lens, it’s completely underwhelming. Even though adding these guys is a positive thing, it certainly doesn’t make Edmonton a playoff team and people are getting impatient. It’s not enough, so it’s not good.
If your perspective is this grey, it’s also not hard to dismiss Belanger as so freaking obvious that it had to be done and it’s impossible to credit Tambellini for this as well. If you had a strong opinion of the Oilers GM before this, I wouldn’t blame you if that opinion hasn’t changed. It’s easy as pie to dismiss Smyth/Belanger as easy and obvious and the others as insignificant. The improvements are there, but they’re not big enough to overcome pre-existing perceptions.
Especially if you let yourself believe for a moment that Edmonton was ready to start building aggressively.
Couldnt even finish reading,.. had to blurt out.. HUH?!..
ReplyDeleteIt is summertime so I dont read all the comments for every post, but who the F is questioning Eager or Hordichuk?!.. like you said LT, MASSIVE improvement over the scrubs we used on the fourth line last year.. especially hordichuk, he knows his role and is 'eager' to dish out pain on canucks (like, How Awesome is that!?!)
I also like the Sutton pickup, but am aware it could go sour quickly (but that isnt necessarily destined)..
Im a big fan of the Real Toughness brought in, and am even ok w barker (its just another loser season, albeit, with an improved outlook) because its a good time to take that gamble (if you are going to gamble)..
Even the cogs trade is, imo, easily defensible based on contracts / roster spot.. although its kinda tough watching a fan favorite go..
/rant
I have no problem with the bottom of the roster moves. Not sure where this animosity to those moves you allege, LT, is coming from, but I haven't read much support of SMac or JFJ elsewhere. Or denigration of Eager and Hordichuk.
ReplyDeleteAnd from the sweet tweets of bra and panties, it sounds like Belanger was acquired to be a 4C. If that's the case, this is the best the 4th line has looked in awhile.
If RNH turns out to be a scared little girl and has to go back to Jrs, then we bring VV up to play 4th and use Belanger at 3C.
I think most people's issues with this team or at D and G, not F.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteLT wrote:
ReplyDeleteUnderstanding that these men were on the shopping list and are clearly better than what the Oilers had a year ago, how does one blame Steve Tambellini for doing the job asked of him?
Who is doing the asking? Katz? Renney? Lowe?
speeds: Based on his rosters of past years--dating back to the NYR--it looks like a Renney team to me.
ReplyDeleteangus_j Jeff Angus
ReplyDeleteAdam Larsson contract is very interesting - no bonuses, 900k cap hit. By comparison, Nugent-Hopkins cap hit $3.7 million. #Devils
2 minutes ago
angus_j Jeff Angus
I guess he knew that his chances of making the team would be significantly improved with a lower cap hit. #Devils
2 minutes ago
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteFrom Ken Linseman to Esa Tikkanen to Brian Marchment to Ethan Moreau, the Oilers have got solid returns from players willing to play the role of pest. I hope Eager offers more of the same. As for Hordichuk, math probably doesn't appreciate his contribution. I suspect Hall, Eberle, MPS and company will.
ReplyDeleteAnd lest we forget, professional sports IS entertainment. With that in mind, I like having a player like Hordichuk in the lineup who's always spoiling for a good dust-up. You can always count on good Ukranian boys to roll up their sleeves when there's a call for some dirty work ;)
I think Eager is an upgrade on Jacques, and Hordichuk on MacIntyre. I also think the length of Eager's contract is a potential problem, in limiting flexibility going forward for guys like Hamilton and Pitlick a year or two from now - I wonder they didn't front-load his contract as they did Belanger's, to help make him more movable in 2 years if necessary.
ReplyDeleteBarring injury I think we'll look back on the upcoming season and say the Belanger signing and Smyth trade were the only ones that actually had any sort of impact. Having some key players healthy for more than 45 games a year would be the biggest plus but this team's success is almost wholly dependent on how the "kids" mature and take on bigger roles. The rest of the pie is just crust.
ReplyDeleteEager signing is nice. He's a better hockey player than most give him credit for, can skate with the rest of the team, fits the age demographic, and brings the Sideshow Bob element. He's not the enforcer some think he is but he's going to make those games against the Flames a lot more fun to watch.
Barker's a huge question mark and him being the first of the $3M Blackhawk jettisons while having his role diminished 2 years running says loads. If he's got his shit back together and fully focused on hockey I guess he's worth the shot but I'd much rather have seen his coin go towards more of a sure bet.
Hordichuk and Sutton I don't really get to be honest. We got a lesser deterrent but one that can skate a bit for the 120 minutes he'll get, and maybe Sutton was taken off the market for fear a division rival would employ him to put more of our F's in the sick bay.
Cogliano? Meh.
I still think one of Gagner or Omark + a decent prospect/draft pick are in play for a backend contributor. I'd risk Gagner's potential for a younger Dman at the same level in a heartbeat.
really? people didn't like eager? hmm, i had the complete opposite impression, that the vast majority of people thought it was a great move
ReplyDeleteI hadn't gotten the impression that people were hating the Eager/Sutton/Hordichuk moves LT.
ReplyDeleteAs soon as I saw Ben Eager run Daniel Sedin from behind in the playoffs in retaliation for a Canuck cheapshot on of Eager's star players, I knew this was a player we wanted.
July started off with the hopes of competing for playoffs. It was a great start with the signings but I think the dissatisfaction is in what wasn't done.
ReplyDeleteA solid D man won't make the team overnight winners, but it's hard to give full marks when there is such a major and obvious hole.
"A solid D man won't make the team overnight winners, but it's hard to give full marks when there is such a major and obvious hole."
ReplyDeleteWell said,..
Man did McPhee ever get a discount on Alzner.
ReplyDeleteOh and upgrading the 4th line has to be a positive. With the right development lines 1-4 could all be "upgraded" this summer.
ReplyDeleteFix the d now please.
speeds said...I think Eager is an upgrade on Jacques
ReplyDeleteIf Eager's got a pulse he's an upgrade on Jacques. This isn't even a question mark.
I also think the length of Eager's contract is a potential problem, in limiting flexibility going forward for guys like Hamilton and Pitlick a year or two from now
I really don't get this line of thinking at all. A $1.1M caphit is a factor on a team with as many question marks as this one has? Seems to be a lot more sensical than supposing two kids like Pitlick and Hamilton are ever going to see NHL ice.
A far greater concern might be the $5.5M caphit for the next 4 shelled out for a #1C who pops 39 points per year, $4M for a D who might play 10 games, and the $3.75 going towards a glorified shooter tutor. Throw in the crapshoot factor of re-signing Hesmky while crossing your fingers and praying he stays in one piece for 60 games a year. I just don't see how a couple of hundred k per limits you much over the alternatives.
I dream of the day when the Oilers have 12 forwards who can play the game skillfully, but it's not going to happen. The Boys on the Bus had their enforcers and this team of young skilled kids will also have them.
ReplyDeleteYou are right that everyone forgets that Kevin McClelland, Dave Brown, Dave Semenko, Marty McSorley, Dave Hunter, Don Jackson, and Kelly Buchberger have Edmonton Oiler Stanley Cup rings.
That was a different era, but a lot of NHL coaches think you still need at least some of those guys.
I agree with those who say the Smac type heavyweight is going the way of the dodo, but Eager types will be fully employed for a while.
Agitators who can back it up in a fight seem to be useful. I know that I agree more with the "eye for an eye" type of policing (i.e. Eager hitting Sedin after Bieksa goads Marleau into a fight) than an Smac type going and beating up their tough guy.
In the old days Semenko, McClelland or Brown would go and just start beating on the guy who needed it, but now with the instigator the "Bieksa guy" is rarely a willing participant.
I remember listening to Barry Trotz being interview and he was asked about "energy players" and "crashers and bangers"
He said "Ideally you would want 4 lines that can score, but in reality that line up doesn't work. You need to be tough too" (paraphrased)
I respect Trotz a lot, and if he says you need that type of player, I'll appeal to authority and believe him.
That being said, I don't think he's every had the opportunity to coach 4 scoring lines.
Everyone who disagrees with that line of thinking always points to the Red Wings, but they seem to be the exception, rather than the rule.
Boston, Chicago, Pittsburg, Anaheim, and Carolina (kind of) all had these types of players when they won the Cup post lock out.
You could even argue that the Wings 2008 team had Downey (although he didn't play in the playoffs), and Drake. They were certainly more "team tough" with the likes of Draper, Holmstrom, Lilja and Franzen not being the shrinking violet types.
I like Ben Eager.
ReplyDeleteHe can actually play hockey, and he's borderline crazy sometimes.
He's got speed, hands and a decent shot. If he'd have a head he'd probably be a top power forward.
As for Hordichuck, I don't mind as long as his line doesn't play too much minutes.
In fact it's sort of a positive.
If you get guys who will accept 5 minutes a game to get the kids to play shitloads it's perfect.
WG: Trotz' never won shit either.
ReplyDelete+100 PIM guys
Chicago: 1 Ben Eager HS 4 games
Pittsburgh: 2 Godard HS All games
Cooke
Anaheim: 3 Moen, O'Brien and Parros HS 16 games
Carolina: 1 Commodore
Boston: 2 Lucic and Thornton HS 7 games
So Eager, Cooke, Moen, O'Brien, Commodore , Lucic and Thornton.
Sure they all are ''tough'' (Exept for Cooke who's a rat) but they still have minimal hockey skills.
LT,
ReplyDeleteExcellent!
Looking forward to it.
WG: Trotz' never won shit either
ReplyDeleteYeah, he just gets one of the lowest payrolls in the league into the playoffs more often than not.
This is also an argument for David Poile, but the Preds have the most points/$ spent since the lock out.
So what has Trotz won? Just more hockey games with the "worse" team on the ice than any other coach in the league.
+100 PIM guys
ReplyDeleteThis number is arbitrary and means nothing.
If I guy has 90PIMS he doesn't count as being "tough"
WG: I took Eager and Hordichuk's averages.
ReplyDeleteAnd no it doesn't mean anything and it doesn't have to.
It's just a high bar. As few players went into that category.
It was simply to prove that players with high PIM's on those teams also had the capacity to play quality hockey.
Qualifying guys as ''tough'' randomly would also be arbitrary. So Heh.
fpv,
ReplyDeleteUnderstood.
Murat laid it out pretty much as I see it.
ReplyDeleteI know Eager can play a bit but he'll also be a bit of a clown who taxes our PK. I don't mind that so much because once again this team isn't built to try and compete.
And that's got nothing to do with Eager or Hordichuk.
Only move I don't like is 1.8 for Jones. Much like Brule before him, these guys screamed sell high at the trade deadline that year. I know it's not the end of the world type cap wise but how many times do we need to sign this same contract.
ReplyDeleteAgain, we're last place. First crack at the waiver wire pre season and again we're handcuffed contract/roster wise. We're obviously not quite there yet so I see no reason not to cherry pick one or two players from waivers that contractually could be under our control for a lot longer. Surely there is going to be at least one player going by that is worth a shot. That a team with holes should take some advantage of.
I like all the acquisitions. With Hordichuk the guy is tough and I mean real tough. He's a smaller guy so he isn't a top fighter like Laraque or Smac were but I've seen that guy take on much bigger men, take a pounding, and still be smiling.
ReplyDeleteHe can play a bit. He understands the role so if the Ott's of the league want to run around then he'll run one of their star players.
Plus he doesn't take too many minors and the ones he does are from playing hard hockey.
Only move I don't like is 1.8 for Jones. Much like Brule before him, these guys screamed sell high at the trade deadline that year.
ReplyDeleteJones is 1.5M. Which is why it's better than the Brule/Nilsson deals.
The $2.25M per for Smid bothers me, but I guess he must have proven 2nd pairing ability to management. I don't think we can expect any regression in his play like the contracts to Jones or Brule, so it's probably a safer bet barring injury, but still seems like a lot for what he does. What did O'Brien sign for?
ReplyDeletePlus he doesn't take too many minors and the ones he does are from playing hard hockey.
ReplyDeleteSB: Among NHLers with 30+ GP, Hordichuk was 5th in penalties taken per 60 (2.4). For every 60 minutes of Hordichuk that's another 5 minutes of being shorthanded.
Not sure which is worse.
Btw, Andy Sutton was 6th at 2.3.
Spoiler: Smid handled 2nd pairing duty with 3rd pairing help as per the math.
ReplyDeleteNot bad.
O'brien handled 3rd with 2nd/1st pairing help, and he went behind.
Bruce: Well average would be about half.
ReplyDeleteSo every 12 games we get 1,2 more disadvantages.
6,66 for the season.
Which would make 1 goal for a good PK.
Oilers official twitter account says that the Oilers have re-signed Chorney and O'Marra to one-year contracts. No other details just yet though. I assume two-way contracts on the cheap.
ReplyDeleteWho's in charge of special teams anyway?
ReplyDeleteIt's about time he gets the boot. They're pityful.
I'm not a fan of the Eager or Hordichuk signings. Hordichuk is not so bad, because he fills that fighter role, and there seems to be a need for that. Eager takes ice time from our developing kids, and I think his usefulness is being overstated here.
ReplyDeleteThere is a fine line between adding value through agitation, and being an outright liability. Eager is well onto the liability side of the ledger which explains why he finds himself wearing a different jersey every year. His type of player doesn't lend itself to studying numbers, so every year there is a new GM that saw him good (at agitating) and gives him a whirl. Then at the end of the year, they are glad to see him go. I doubt it will be any different here. There are good agitators that can play defense and don't spend all their time in the penalty box, and I wonder of Hartikainen could turn into such a player. I think Eager's ice time would have been better spent on Teemu.
Eager signing is sort of like those guys that get scary tattoos on their face. After a few months of being treated like a loser, they look in the mirror and wonder what they were thinking.
Now comparing Eager and Hordichuk to JFJ and MacIntyre is fairly weak. Of course each of them is a better option than JFJ and MacIntyre, but that speaks more to the pathetic team we have been icing than the quality of Eager and Hordichuk. For consistency, I didn't like seeing JFJ and MacIntyre on the ice either for the same reasons, but then again I'm not a fan of Pat Quinn "crust" hockey.
I can see I am in the minority here.
WG:
ReplyDeleteSo you've shown that Trotz has more wins per $ than any other coach during his stay in Nashville. Besides that though, the guy is a real loser!
:-)
//Spoiler: Smid handled 2nd pairing duty with 3rd pairing help as per the math.//
ReplyDeleteFPB: Smid did top end 2nd pair with 3rd pair help like commented two posts ago. but he was just bottom third GA. That makes him a capable 2nd pair dman with better teammates.
Problem is the other two LD faced tougher with worse teamate Comp totals. the two got better GA results. so you play Peckham and Whitney ahead of Smid.
Left side is not our problem when the worst of the three is capable 2nd pairing.
Right side: sutton may be asked to play above his rangewith tough Comp.
Gilbert played third and just survived 2.7GA/60. Then he got thrown to the wolves with tough comp and was one of the worst Dman.
He has not face 2nd pair. we cannot even be sure that he is capable of 2nd Pair.
Barker is a third pair dman that just breaks even.
Our right side is not being asked to take on easier roles. there being asked to do things that they might but more than likley will not
be able to do.
//SB: Among NHLers with 30+ GP, Hordichuk was 5th in penalties taken per 60 (2.4). For every 60 minutes of Hordichuk that's another 5 minutes of being shorthanded.//
//Which would make 1 goal for a good PK.//
Darcy hordichucks 13 minors:
7 hockey:
4 hook/holds
3 interference ???????
6 Fu's Slash /Board /Goilie int /Rough / Cross Check / Unsports
Rickibear: +- seems more relevant than GA.
ReplyDeleteThere was definitely a need for an actual player that is a disincentive to opponents. The current reality is the league does a poor and uneven job of protecting players.
ReplyDeleteAs for who they chose, only Eager makes any sense, or is even a decent player.
With a cap existing, there is no way to ice a top to bottom skill team of course.
And as for hoping a powerplay will be the disincentive to other teams, how did that work for the Canucks?
Powerplays can be stopped, no matter how good as the Bruins showed, and they rely on penalties actually being called, which happens less so as the playoffs progress and when it matters most.
I have no problems with the Smid deal because you can always find a place for guys like that when the time comes that you don't want them anymore. A young vetran defenseman is one of the most tradeable assets there is, even if he's slightly overpaid.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI liked the Belanger signing. I don't mind the Sutton trade. I don't like the Barker signing in terms of dollars, but understand that it's a low-risk move so I don't mind it either.
ReplyDeleteI like that Eager is better than Jacques, and I like that Hordichuk is better than MacIntyre. Beyond that, though...
Here's the issue: when you're the GM, you decide the tools the coach has to work with, not the other way around. If the coach wants a goon with minimal abilities beyond fighting, you're better off giving him Hordichuk than MacIntyre. That doesn't mean you should give him Hordichuk.
If a guy can't hold water agianst fourth-liners, he shouldn't be getting a contract from a competent team. Hordichuk is such a player. I don't care that he's better than Steve MacIntyre - 90% of the AHL squad was better at hockey than Steve MacIntyre. He's a below-average fourth-liner whose only redeeming quality is one that is becoming less and less relevant in the modern game: fighting. I can't recall the last time a fight between fourth-liners mattered in a playoff game, and I'm highly skeptical of claims that the policemen can police - from where I sit, they're more likely to escalate the violence, leading to more rather than fewer incidents. Certainly Edmonton hasn't seen a reduction in injuries despite their employing a nuclear deterrent.
Eager's a little different, in that he's a pretty average fourth-line guy who can hit and fight. My objection there is that 'pretty average fourth-line guy' is not a guy you want to hand $3.9 million over three years. I'm not aghast at it, but it's a marginal signing (though it's better than wasting the phone call to Hordichuk's agent).
Belanger was a superb signing, Hordichuk will be the least useful player on the roster, and the rest of the moves are indifferent. On the whole, it's not a bad summer - Belanger is what they've needed for years, and if you spend the #14F roster spot on cowbell things could have been much worse. But, Belanger aside, there's nothing here worth getting excited about.
JW: Agreed. I don't know why you are so low on Hordichuk tough.
ReplyDeleteLast year:
GF 9
GA 10
PDO: 980
REL Corsi: -0,5
Corsi ON: -1,11
Ozone: 54,3
Ozonefinish: 54,5
I don't mind the toughness signings. As others have said, the Oilers only have 3 fighter types compared to 5 last season, and the three they picked up are all upgrades on what went out the door.
ReplyDeleteIt's really not worth all the time fans spend fretting over it as teams mostly win and lose with their best players. You can almost always find a useless player or two even on Stanley Cup championship teams.
Really as it stands now, Belanger is the only real upgrade over last summer's roster. If Tambellini doesn't find a top 4 d-man through free agency or trade before the start of the season then I think we need to consider this summer as just another summer of failure.
Eager's a little different, in that he's a pretty average fourth-line guy who can hit and fight. My objection there is that 'pretty average fourth-line guy' is not a guy you want to hand $3.9 million over three years. I'm not aghast at it, but it's a marginal signing (though it's better than wasting the phone call to Hordichuk's agent).
ReplyDeleteEager is comparable to Shaun Thorton, who reminded everyone the importance of a good tough fourth line in the finals this year. Eager and Bouwer did the same thing for CHI two years ago.
Fighting may not matter much in the playoffs but it is part of the game in the regular season. A vet on DET can skate away from a goon or feel good about drawing a penalty. I don't think you get the same response from a young player on a young team. He is going to feel the need to step up or may feel intimidated.
Hordichuk will help the young guys navigate through the intimidation process that plays a role in most games.
Rickibear: +- seems more relevant than GA.
ReplyDelete+/-; GA; are dependent on all teammates most notably the Goalie.
I am more comfortable with Goals against when defining D and Goalies.
Offensive dmen and forwards are more the +/-.
All stil flawed by no cumulative shot data. But what the hay.
It is a measure versus the league.
Our left d holds up well. top 60 for dmen.
Our right dmen not so much.
And as for hoping a powerplay will be the disincentive to other teams, how did that work for the Canucks?
ReplyDeleteThey got to game 7 of the SCF, so I'd say it worked pretty good.
@ Ducey:
ReplyDeleteI know Thornton got a lot of love for what he did in the finals, but the reality is that a) he was outchanced and that b) for the majority of Boston's post-season run his contributions were pretty minimal.
I'm not worried about guys like Hall or Eberle feeling intimidated. They did a pretty good job of showing they weren't last season.
@ FPB:
ReplyDeleteLook back more than one season (to his time with Vancouver) and you'll see why I'm so glum.
@JW: Certainly Edmonton hasn't seen a reduction in injuries despite their employing a nuclear deterrent.
ReplyDeleteEager's a little different, in that he's a pretty average fourth-line guy who can hit and fight. My objection there is that 'pretty average fourth-line guy' is not a guy you want to hand $3.9 million over three years. I'm not aghast at it, but it's a marginal signing (though it's better than wasting the phone call to Hordichuk's agent).
Two things on this...
1: MacIntyre admitted (in not exact words though) that he wasn't much of a nuclear deterrent. He mentioned to Jason Gregor recently that he took a while to get that snap-factor. That's really the problem. he spent too much of the time here being the nice guy that invites you to fight. It wasn't until Stoner hit Paajarvi (and not even that bad) that he really snapped. I loved seeing that, and that would have been something to help him keep his job here, but it was far too late.
I fully believe that both Eager and Hordichuk are both types that will fight people that attempt to take liberties with our players (which happened a lot last year and really went unanswered for most of it).
I think Eager's inflated salary is actually good. It is high, yes, but it's high for a reason. That should provide a healthy buffer allowing for suspensions, if need be.
All that said, I am hoping that we don't have to see much of either of those two in the line up this year, except in BoAs, games vs. Van, revenge vs. Avery and such.
I too feel that the need for an enforcer is diminishing quite a bit.. but that has most to do with the instigator rule. I think having a guy with a "healthy" salary on the team allows him to cross the line from time to time. I do question why he was signed to a 3-year deal though.
I'll also finish up by saying that I hope we see more nights with a 4th line like "Harski Brule/Belanger/etc Jones" than we do "Eager Brule/Belanger/etc Hordichuk"
I apparently forgot to label point number 2 :P (why Eager is overpaid) and expanded it into 100 things...
ReplyDeleteJW: Damn me if that Vancouver line doesn't look like one of the worst ever.
ReplyDeleteSmac bad.
Shawn Thornton
GF 2
GA 3
REL Corsi: -11,38
HS: 7 games
HS during the finals: 2 games
The Oil haven't had a player with the type of mentality & fighting ability that Eager has since McSorley or McClelland! Those are the type of players that keeps the other teams antagonists at bay. Both are excellent signings!
ReplyDeleteIt seems everyone in the whole league is like
ReplyDelete''We get a fighter, to counter other fighters''.
I've yet to see a team say ''We got a fighter to intimidate''.
I'm not worried about guys like Hall or Eberle feeling intimidated. They did a pretty good job of showing they weren't last season.
ReplyDeleteI am not either. But I am worried about guys like Hamilton, Hartikanen, Vande Velde, O'Marra, Lander, Marincin, Pitlick etc who are expected to play a physical role and will be asked to answer the bell. They need to know they have some back up to handle the tougher guys in the league.
Ducey: Probably two of them won't be good enough not to be forced to become those ''backers''.
ReplyDeleteI'd say CVV and O'Marra
Eager and Hordichuck are end-of-the-roster types. Sutton too, really. I'm fine with them, in that they're good enough to force the kids to play their way onto the team, and dispensible enough that they can be, um, dispensed with if enough kids do (this presumes that the Oilers will dispense with veterans who are not among their best 23 players, even if they're under contract; I have very little basis for this presumption). I don't buy that they're significant improvements to the team as a whole (Jacques to Eager is a big upgrade as a player, but what's the overall effect on the team? I'm going to guess minimal, subject to somebody demonstrating otherwise).
ReplyDeleteBarker's an improvement on Foster, probably (Foster's performance last year is probably Barker's floor - I agree with those who point out that Barker's not ready for second-pairing minutes, but I think some people are forgetting just how bad Foster was last year). Sutton's at worst a lateral move from Vandermeer (and if he winds up playing the Strudwick role, he's a big upgrade).
Smyth's approximately a replacement for Penner (but older and more expensive and more impendingly a UFA, which makes that "trade" a negative for the future). Belanger's a pure upgrade.
The 2011-2012 team is likely to be better than the 2010-2011 one. It's also likely to be quite a bad hockey team.
Sorry, Smyth and Penner become UFAs at the same time. And Smyth's probably more likely to re-sign. So there's that.
ReplyDeleteRangers got Boogaard to intimidate. And the man was intimidating.
ReplyDeleteAnd now he's fucking dead. That clearly gets us nowhere.
ReplyDeletelol. Classic.
ReplyDelete