Hat tip to DSF for the news. Colin Fraser and a 7th round pick in 2012 to LAK for Ryan Smyth. Easily Steve Tambellini's best trade, although he'll no doubt want to evaluate it for awhile.
There is an outstanding inteview at LA Kings Insider that is worth reading. It is here.
There is an outstanding inteview at LA Kings Insider that is worth reading. It is here.
That is an absolutely superb trade.
ReplyDeleteFinally, the Smtyh deal is done. Thank you Colin Fraser for being the willing guinea pig. Woot, woot!
ReplyDeletegreat great trade.
ReplyDeleteBye Fraser. He did not look like the player we were expecting him to be.
An encouraging sign that 3.0 can at least take full advantage of a vulnerable GM. If Brule ever happens to get healthy, he has a way higher ceiling than Frasier
ReplyDelete"DarrenDreger Darren Dreger
ReplyDeleteLA was willing to make the deal yesterday...Smyth for a 7th. No Brule. Edmtn wanted to move out some $.
9 minutes ago"
It's a good thing Lombardi wants cap space to sign some free agents, otherwise Tambellini would have fumbled the ball.
Perfect heading.
ReplyDeleteMuch better than, "Sail on, Moose Jaw Warrior"
Brule is more useful than Fraser, so I like that too.
What does the need to return salary to LA mean? Is it just about Money or are the Oilers looking to sign some big $$ free agents here? Was it just about getting all that one can get when you have the winning hand?
ReplyDelete@ DSF
ReplyDeleteI think it had something to do with moving a contract than money. Which is ok if he wants to sign a few people after July 1
EXCELLENT NEWS!! Well done!
ReplyDeletePunjabi Oil
ReplyDeleteBrule might have more 'potential' than Fraser otherwise Fraser is a more of a hockey player
Yay!
ReplyDeleteGood for Tambellini for giving up only a 7th and getting Fraser off the books.
I officially upgrade him to v3.1
He won't be 4.0 until Hemsky is re-signed.
Here's something we need to consider:
ReplyDeletewas the inclusion of 16 a sign that Katz is now going on the cheap just a little or was it an indication that the Oilers knew 94 was going nowhere else and they could totally fuck Lomardi not by just giving up sad 7th round pick but also throwing them a piece of contractual junk.
Now, let's get 94 extended and 83 reupped and dig in with 10-83-94 as the vets to help along the kids.
hack the bone: 67 isn't worth spending time hoping about.
ReplyDeletehe'll be bought out if they're smart.
Not only do we get Smyth but we lose Fraser? A banner day.
ReplyDeleteColin Fraser had 5 points in 67 games last year.
ReplyDelete5.
Suspect he'll be bought out from his 2 year contract that he should never have initially received.
Was it just about getting all that one can get when you have the winning hand?
ReplyDeleteI'd have to think that this is the correct answer.
Lombardi was over the barrel so why not get rid of a contract that you don't like.
The kicker was that Lombardi had to be able to buy it out cheaply. Brule was cheapest, but his Post Concussion Depression *probably* keeps him from being bought out.
Fraser may turn out to be a valuable depth player for the Kings in the way he was for the Hawks. I suspect he has a bigger upside for Lombardi than he does on the Oil
ReplyDelete@ Dennis
ReplyDeleteI think it was more of a getting a contract away than money, which is smart.
@ Punjabi Oil
ReplyDeleteOver at Cult of hockey those guys showed that Fraser season was not as miserable as his numbers show. But the guy could not crack the top 12 of the 30th place team...so yeah good riddance.
Brule might have more 'potential' than Fraser otherwise Fraser is a more of a hockey player.
ReplyDeleteI don't really agree. Brule can be useful as a 4th line center, even if he is overpaid.
That said, his play in 2009-2010 at least earned him a contract.
Fraser, meanwhile, appears to have earned his two year contract based on association (ZOMG! Chicago Blackhaws Stanley Cup Champions!)
DSF:
ReplyDeleteExactly how good a deal would Tambo have to make for you to give him any credit? Amid a ton of public outcry to just make the deal and damn the cost, Tambo recognized the bind Lombardi was in and played him like a violin until he got the perfect result.
I don't think a single armchair GM thought we could get Smyth for this little when the trade request broke.
Number of contracts is probably the main reason the Oilers wanted to include a player.
ReplyDeleteThey weren't planning on Smyth, and an extra contract might mean they wouldn't have been able to offer Martindale one, or a veteran AHL goaltender to be #3 on the depth chart.
he'll be bought out if they're smart.
ReplyDeleteI don't think they can, legally.
SumOil said...
ReplyDelete"I think it had something to do with moving a contract than money. Which is ok if he wants to sign a few people after July 1"
I doubt that would be the case here.
It would have been pretty simple to send an excess OKC contract to Manchester.
Think Tambellini was just playing silly bugger.
I agree it was more of moving a contract than the money. Gives them more flexibility to sign a couple free agents and stay a few contracts away from the 50 contract limit.
ReplyDeleteGreat news for a Sunday morning.
I know its Sunday and its pretty early but its 4 o'clock somewhere right!?!
Good point - its probably about the 50 contract limit.
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting to see one of these trades from the other point of view (i.e. when the Oiler GM is holding all of the cards). Typically Edmonton has been on the other side of these trades and the return has been less impressive. I think it shows how important it is to be a desirable place for players. Hopefully with the rookies coming up and the improved professionalism (having an AHL team, etc), the Oilers can improve from being the 30th most attractive city for NHL players.
Betting on ST playing silly bugger is probably the right thing. He doesn't usually choose the hill to die on wisely, so that's my guess too.
ReplyDeleteHe needed his pound of flesh and Lombardi will no doubt Shawshank laundy room him down the line.
Smyth returns. Man. This feels right.
Now Kings fan would probably want penner to stay and produce.
ReplyDeleteFunny how Penner has replaced Smyth for 2 straight organisations!
Brule can win a faceoff and be an agitator as a 4th line centre.
ReplyDeleteAnd who knows. Maybe the silicon chip inside his brain will turn on and he'll snap into the player he was for the Vancouver Giants. It is do or die for his career.
So when it comes down to it, for one year, I'd rather have Brule than Fraser
Looks like the Kings will be in a position to take a real good run at Stanley now.
ReplyDeleteGoing into free agency with $16M in cap space.
Lombardi needs to sign Doughty ($7.5M?) , Handzus and a couple of pluggers so should be able to land another big fish.
Simon Gagne?
meh i think it is time to cut ties with Brule and spend the development time on another player.
ReplyDeleteBut it is his contract year and who knows maybe a hike in production might mean some value at deadline.
But then again I dont think he will be able to get us the calibre of player Fraser brought us :P
I'm glad Tambellini, unlike many fans, knows how to call a bluff.
ReplyDeleteThink Tambellini was just playing silly bugger.
ReplyDeleteSomeone is.
I'm pretty sure its reuniting Richards and Gagne that Lombardi has in mind.
ReplyDeleteGood trade, and kudos to Tambellini for waiting until Lombardi blinked.
ReplyDeleteGood GMing.
For a second I though Jason Smith was returning.
ReplyDeletehunter: I changed it. Sorry. Now no one will know you're talking about the original photo.
ReplyDelete"An encouraging sign that 3.0 can at least take full advantage of a vulnerable GM."
ReplyDeleteMmmm. Very stealthy of him. Lombardi was completely bent over and Tambo road the heck out of him. Must make him look great amoung his peers. Or maybe it's no big deal? Kevin Lowe knows what this must of felt like for Lombardi.
Evaluating Brule based on last years seems a little unfair given he had the flu/injuries/post concussion depression/plaque.
ReplyDeleteIf he can get healthy he might yet have a career.
Fraser is easily replaced by House/VDV/Lander
I think the 'over the barrel' element of this is overblown. If Lombardi is pissed off at anyone, it will be Smyth.
ReplyDeleteGMs understand that the goal of their fellow GMs is to get the best deal available. We are just used to being on the other side of these deals.
I know its Sunday and its pretty early but its 4 o'clock somewhere right!?!
ReplyDeleteFind a golf course, book in to play nine, wait for the beer cart. Absolutely no one will judge.
Seriously, Fraser and a 7th? I cannot think of a cheaper cost in terms of a "player plus pick" package without using the term "JFJ". Good work by Tambellini. Added an "actual NHL player" for virtually no cost in terms of assets.
I think the 'over the barrel' element of this is overblown. If Lombardi is pissed off at anyone, it will be Smyth.
ReplyDeleteGMs understand that the goal of their fellow GMs is to get the best deal available. We are just used to being on the other side of these deals.
Excellent point. It's an exclusive, 30-member club and everyone knows the ground rules. Everyone gets their turn in the hole!
joy!
ReplyDeletewelcome home #94. let the mentoring begin.
Fantastic news.
ReplyDeleteBrule has been almost an afterthought most of the year so if he is able to play at all and up his value by the trade deadline, which is in the realm of possibility, then it's gravy.
commonfan13 said...
ReplyDelete"DSF:
Exactly how good a deal would Tambo have to make for you to give him any credit? Amid a ton of public outcry to just make the deal and damn the cost, Tambo recognized the bind Lombardi was in and played him like a violin until he got the perfect result.
I don't think a single armchair GM thought we could get Smyth for this little when the trade request broke."
Under the circumstances, I'm sure Lombardi would have been happy to take a 7th round pick for Smyth...nothing more.
That Tambellini made him take Fraser off his hands hardly rates as the GM triumph of the season.
It's minor irritant to Lombardi and you have to bear in mind who signed Fraser in the first place.
Steve: Deano..I've got a couple of duds...can you help me out with that?
Deano: Sure, Steve, as long as I can buy out your mistake.
Steve: Well, how about this Brule kid? I traded Raffi Torres for him. I'm sure you can buy him out...he's healthy.
Deano: Sure thing...oh wait...he's too depressed to be bought out.
Steve: Well, how about Fraser...I messed up there too.
Deano: Whatever Pal.
Awesome GM work, right there.
As one of 3.0's harshest critics I have to give credit where credit was due.
ReplyDeleteWhen he finally spoke up the other day and actually sounded like a GM it was a tonic to a fanbase that has only had 1 thing (MBS) to look forward too.
In making this trade, he comes out looking like a GM w/a backbone and adds someone who while on the downslope of his career will help the Oilers in ways that may not be obvious and may not be immediate.
Vision.
Nicely done.
So how should the lines shake out? If they signed a veteran center:
ReplyDeleteHorcoff-Hall-Eberle
Gagner-Smyth-Hemsky
Vet C-MP-Omark
Cogliano-Jones-Brule
Who did I forget?
Any bets on the decibel level in Rexall Place October 9??
ReplyDelete(hmmm...thinking.....fan for 30 years....never been to game in "Northland's Coliseum" and on the bucket list...only half my vacation committed for this work year....hmmmm.......)
Ok, with the draft over, time to look back at the "checklists" people were posting on Friday as to what constitutes a good draft weekend. I'll start:
ReplyDelete- Draft RNH (I've warmed to this gradually, as everything I've read says he'll be the perfect fit between Hall and Eberle 3 years down the road).
Check.
- Hold at 19 and pick either McNeill, Siemens, or Oleksiak, depending on who is left
None were left, so I'm more than OK with Klefbom, considering some of the scouting service reviews of him as a "sleeper". So a check here as well.
- Acquire Smyth for a 3rd or 4th rounder and add a proven NHLer to the stable
Double-check, considering it cost us a 7th plus we offloaded Colin Fraser.
- Do NOT trade the "core four" youngsters (Hall, Gagner, Eberle, MPS) or the 2012 first rounder.
Check, so far.
- Maintain our current experience and resist any urges to deal Hemsky or Gilbert for futures
Check, although, as above, "so far"...if they're still Oilers at this time next Sunday, they're likely in the clear.
About the only way Tambellini could have had a better weekend would have been if he had found homes for Souray and/or Khabibulin. But I'll take it as-is.
nontest: Refusal to attest to something.
Absolutely delighted we just added another real NHL hockey player to our line up. What are we up to now 12? 14? Many of the naysayers on bringing Smytty back will be surprised at what he will still be capable of doing
ReplyDeleteContrary to many posting here, in a closed system, the goal is not to get the BEST possible deal, unless you believe you are never again going to have any dealing with Lombardi. Always leave a little goodwill on the table. Also doubt Lombardi will ever again be in as vulnerable a position and IF he is mad, payback may actually be a bitch.
How? well if I had a shit pile of young kids that will be coming off ELC's and could be susceptible to an RFA offer..... or even a succession of RFA offers: Hall, then MPS,Eberele, Petry, Hamilton, Marcinin, RNH and then Klefbom
Fortunately we have only pissed off 10% of the NHL's general managers: Regier, Burke and,now, Lombardi.
Or maybe you actually believe Burke has forgiven and forgotten what Lowe did. Fortunately he is GM in a marketplce with insufficient funds to be truly vindicative. Me, ...... I think Burke is just waiting for payback
LT: That they will make RNH play right away.
ReplyDeleteTambo had to clear a roster spot to take on Smyth and he did. Minimal damage to LA's cap. Beauty deal. Thank you to everyone who hit the panic button and ripped Tambi apart for all the exciting drama. Nice job Obi Wan!
ReplyDeleteLT:
ReplyDeleteSmyth Gagner Hemsky
Hall Horcoff Eberle
Paajarvi Cogliano Jones
Harski Lander Toughguy
Omark Brule
I'd be more than happy to switch out Cogs for a real checking center, but that easier said than done. But the forwards are shaping up nicely, just need to tweak the centers.
P.S. I agree with HBomb: very good draft by the Oil! Again!
ReplyDeleteWord verification to my last post was, no kidding: chippe
I still think the Oilers may push to buyout out Brule anyways. The risk Lombardi didn't want was not being able to buyout or trade Brule.
ReplyDeleteTambo stated that Brule has been medically cleared. So, this might be one of those delayed buyouts. It is possible to buyout out a player later than the 2 week period in the summer if he is not declared healthy, but then is cleared later by the doctors.
I remember the Bruins doing it a couple of years back.
If Brule and his agent are thinking this is a stalling tactic, they are making a bad decision.
If he is in fact still suffering symptoms then the buyout might just come later once he is cleared by the doctors.
DSF: Tambellini did not trade Torres for Brule; Lowe did.
ReplyDeleteTorres was a borderline 3rd liner, one that's current commodity, for a guy who legitimately still had top 6 potential at the time.
ReplyDeleteNot a bad trade.
The only way I see a buyout (remember, Souray needs to be bought out too) is if Brule and his agent angered the Gods during this negotiation.
ReplyDeleteI suspect they did, and if that's the case then Brule may be playing in Hershey in 11-12.
The uncertainty of the events leading up to the trade had me asking myself whether or not Tambi was that stupid to fuck up another trade a la Heatley.
ReplyDeleteI know the basic story lines are different but had this deal fallen through completely, the perception of Tambellini being a capable GM goes right out the window.
He's had a few good moments and a few bad ones but this trade is definitely a gooder. It actually brings hope that maybe this team will stay out of the basement this year.
Anyone else remember that save Smyth made in the playoffs in 1999...oh the memories...
ReplyDeleteTOJ: It's not so much what Tambellini did, it's what he didn't do (so far) which is the positive here.
ReplyDeleteDangerMan: IF the Oilers want to make a step forward this year, the lineup might need to look something like this:
Hall Horcoff Hemsky
Smyth Gagner Eberle
MPS (UFA #1) Omark
Jones (UFA #2) Cogliano
Spares: Brule, MacIntyre
The two UFA's would ideally be two guys like Vern Fiddler and Zenon Konopka, mostly since, in case that RNH forces the Oilers hand and makes the opening night roster, they can be shuffled a spot down the lineup with minimal impact.
Making the forwards look like a passable group isn't an impossible task. the top nine is more or less set and the only variable is whether or not The Nuge makes the squad.
It's the blueline that needs the most help, specifically in the form of two guys capable of playing top four minutes. As such, if I were GM of the Oilers, my main target on July 1st would be none other than Jonathan Ericsson of Detroit. Why not add another Swede?
Great news! It doesn't actually bring us back to 2006, but sounds like better times ahead.
ReplyDeleteYeah LT, Brule might be the next Oiler to ride the Hershey Highway if he blew up the original deal with the help of his agent.
The Oilers now have some reasonable depth on the wings, too bad there's still a black hole down the middle with Nugent playing junior this upcoming season.
We can hope that this will cause V3.1 to loosen the purse strings during free agency and pick up some respectable depth players.
So, what's up next? When is the buyout season? When does Free Agency start? What other deadlines are there?
ReplyDeleteI would Google it, but I have been banned from Google for my past searches.
It’s expected Lombardi will buy out the $825,000 one year contract Fraser has left at two-thirds which is $550,000.
ReplyDeleteSuspect Fraser won't get a one-way contract anywhere.
Hopefully he does.
Does this trade signify an attempt to start winning hockey games again? Or was it more of a case buckling down to pressure (Calgary)?
If the Oilers want to do it right:
Harski, Lander to AHL.
RNH back to junior.
Jones to 4th line.
Attempt to trade Brule or Cogliano this summer.
Sign a veteran C, and another veteran forward [Upshall doesn't want to be here, as per a lawyer friend - cold weather, and he was apparently not happy in Columbus either].
Guys like Laich, Handzus, Connolly, Reasoner, Fiddler, Stillman, Miettinen, Brunette, Zherdev, Ryder, Vrbata, Langenbrunner up front should be considered.
On the blue-line:
Jovonovski, McCabe, Hannan, Kaberle, Wisniewski, Ehrhoff, White, Hejda, Greene, Babchuk, Ericsson should all be pursued - hopefully obtain at least one of those guys who can QB a PP.
Petry should start in AHL or 7th defenceman. Trade Smid if you can replace him with a UFA.
If you can [fiscally] bury Khabibulin to minors, do it. Roll Dubnyk with one of:
Vokoun [long-shot], Roloson, Harding, Auld, or Mike Smith.
And hopefully extend Hemsky to a cap friendly 3-4 year deal.
ReplyDeleteLoved Lowetide's line on ON
ReplyDelete"I'm having a beer, and then I'm having another."
Thank you, Mr. Tambellini! Nice trade even with the foul up.
ReplyDeleteThe kerfuffle of the weekend has actually -- IMO -- resulted in a better deal for the Oilers, as CGY exited -- stage left.
ReplyDeleteI hope they FINALLY dump Cogliano.
ReplyDeleteDue to the differences in age the buyouts were pretty close:
ReplyDeleteBrule $308K x2
Fraser $275K x2
Hilarious, but accurate tweet from @FakeOilersGM on Twitter: "Not my fault the deal took so long. Blame Dean fuckin' Lombardi for leaking every step of the process to the media."
ReplyDeleteYeah FPV,
ReplyDeleteOne of my last remaining *wishes* is not to suffer the indignity of watching Colgiano lose defensive zone faceoffs. That's on top of a long list that's mostly been crossed off like Moreau not taking o-zone penalties or Strudwick getting pyloned or O'Sullivan quarterbacking our pp.
While Brule is certainly still of more value than Fraser (both in absolute and Value for the $$$ terms) his main issue remains -- he is simply too damn small to play top six minutes on any NHL roster, given his physical style and lack of the truly great skating speed and strength required to give him sufficient protection from th inevitable injuries caused by butting heads with opponents 30 lbs heavier.
ReplyDeleteOver-valued by CBJ when drafted, he has had to drag the resultant too-high expectations around with him ever since.
I think this increases the likelihood of RNH playing this coming season. Now the Oil can ice a true vet 1st line and hide RNH and Hall on the second line to eat up all the butter soft minutes.
ReplyDeleteIf the rumours about WAS shopping Green are true, do we take a run at him or hope to pick someone up in FA for no assets? Or do we make a play for Franson to help out NAS with their D budget?
I'd like to see Cogs shopped and play Vandevelde... we need size, strength and FO ability a lot more than we need speed.
Nice list Punjab Oil,
ReplyDeleteJust to *annoy* our dear friend, DSF, what's the breakdown on the Nucks cap situation for this season? Can they afford Errorhoff? He'd be a pretty nice option to QB our PP.
@Spoiler, I'm not sure VV makes the Oil this year, but he looked better than Fraser in his brief stint last season.
ReplyDeletecan someone please explain why people here are in such a hurry to get rid of Smid?
ReplyDeleteEveryone loves Gilbert but Smid is the same age Gilbert was in his first year in the league ffs.
He is big, strong, mobile and tough. He makes mistakes sometimes but those are getting fewer and further between. He is now 25 and probably just as he turns the corner as a legitimate second pairing shutdown guy you all want to trade him? Sure he has no offence but neither did Lee Fogolin , you need players like that to win.
Makes no sense to me.
Anyone want to sign Fraser as an UFA to league minimum salary?
ReplyDeleteJay, it would be the 4 hole anyway, I think the risk is limited and we get a true FO ace into the line up.
ReplyDeleteI already celebrated this trade on Friday! ;)
ReplyDelete94 is exactly the kind of winger 89 has been lacking to help him develop. Lets hope this is his year to take the next step.
I'm not convinced RNH plays in junior next year. Would it really be better for his development to dominate in junior or play a year with 94? If his best attribute is his hockey sense then the sooner he is playing NHL calibre opponents the better IMO.
I like targeting Franson or Blum from Nashville to help on D or adding via free agency. No point joining the bidding war, should find some a lesser known dman or what used to be Lowe's strength.
Fraser may turn out to be a valuable depth player for the Kings in the way he was for the Hawks. I suspect he has a bigger upside for Lombardi than he does on the Oil
ReplyDeleteI agree with this. I like Fraser more than most, seeing him as more of a neutral than a negative player. He's no great shakes, that's for sure, but he's serviceable and is a depth player who could be added to the line-up without hurting the team. But if the team sucks to begin with, that doesn't help a whole lot.
Does trading Fraser leave a Marty Sakic shaped hole in the roster?
ReplyDeleteJay said...
ReplyDelete"Nice list Punjab Oil,
Just to *annoy* our dear friend, DSF, what's the breakdown on the Nucks cap situation for this season? Can they afford Errorhoff? He'd be a pretty nice option to QB our PP."
No annoyance at all Jay.
The Canucks are currently sitting with $18.6M in free cap space.
Bieksa has already indicated he'll take a home town discount to stay so expect him to come in around $4.5M...leaves $14M.
Gillis has indicated he wants to keep Salo around as depth so I would think somewhere in the $2M range...leaves $12M.
Raymond will likely spend most of next season on LTIR so you can add another $2M or so...$14M.
With that amount the Canucks will need to find a replacement for Raymond and still have Alberts, Hansen, Torres, Higgins, Glass and Tambellini (or their replacements)to sign.
If Ehrhoff signs for $4.5M, they should easily be able to round out the roster.
Having Chris Tanev ($900K) come in and play so well gives Gillis a lot of options on defense so I wouldn't be surprised if Ehrhoff leaves and Gillis spends his money on upgrades on the second line. (wouldn't be surprised if Samuelsson is bought out)
Ehrhoff would be a great signing for the Oilers but I expect they would have to overpay massively to get him.
bookie-I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic of not...
ReplyDeletebuyout is june 15 to june 30,then a small window in early august after arbitration..so if Brule or Souray are going to be bought out we'll find out shortly.
Just spitballin' here,but would Rolston fit as the vet C on this club..?
I know he'd have to agree to it,but I'm sure we could get him for nothing,and his salary would help us get to the floor.Get him for 60 games then find him a home on a contender at the deadline.
LT
ReplyDeleteI noticed there was a comment about Marincin's size on your prospect list. For some reason the Oiler website has him listed as 6'5" and 196 lbs, which is an inch and ten pounds more than his WHL, Hockeydb and THN bios.
The kid could end up being a monster.
Hooker is my captcha... do I take that as a sign?
Yeah, great job by Tambo to take advantage of the situation. Yes, you hope it doesn't bite us in the ass but at first blush this is a pretty awesome move and it's nice for us to win for once.
ReplyDeleteThe room was there to take on a big cap hit and this guy is still a fucking good player.
As for the weekend the Oilers went back to drafting D and this means that guys like Lander and Hamilton and Martindale are the next wave now; I still think Hopkins is in the lineup if he keeps putting on weight.
I think we may see 5 our the door too now with the big hole in D in Chi and the Hawks interest in Smid being a known factor.
I doubt they can get rid of themselves 26 so I think you're looking at 6-77-58-49-26 and then Vandermeer back as the 6th D.
Jesus, that's bad and/or young.
If we're serious about being better - and I wonder how much 94's return will push that wheel - then let's pick up a Reasoner and a Real D for the top four that moves 26-49-58 down the depth chart.
The next thing you're gonna see is the Oilers making some decisions on all the young rearguards. Plante's likely to lose his shine to Tuebert for instance.
but he's serviceable and is a depth player who could be added to the line-up without hurting the team.
ReplyDeleteThat's not exactly a ringing endorsement.
Put it this way - the Oilers could have got a quality 3rd line center who wins face-offs and contributes offensively - like Brenden Morrison for $725,000.
Guys like Fraser, Stortini, Jacques, MacIntyre are a dime a dozen. You don't spend time worrying about their departures.
You just don't.
Fantatic.
ReplyDeleteHopefully Brule (who surely has more of a future with the Oilers than Fraser) can get over this and play well for us next year.
Great point by Sean about 94 being a guy to help out 89.
ReplyDeleteYou could go 4-10-83 vs the thoughts and then 94-89-14 vs the 2nd line.
Let's say Reasoner splits 91-23 in a role where there's no pressure.
Or if 83's dealt on July 1st then 91 moves over to the right side in the top six.
All this presuming that Hopkins goes back to junior; which I don't think he will but seems to be a much stronger possibility than it was for 4 to be headed back there this year last year.
I know it would really hurt the CHL but it would be nice for younger kids to be able to play in the A.
Smyth won't play in the same role as a 1st line LW - so expectations should not be as to what he was 4 years ago.
ReplyDelete50 points for Smyth would be a reasonable expectation. Hopefully he'll also a better job on the powerplay than Penner did.
I had center ice for the first time last year, so did end up watching several late-night Kings games. While the point totals went down, he was still contributing every night.
Strong leadership is infectious.
Of course that doesn't mean Tambellini's work is done - a long way to go. Smyth's trade request hopefully provoked some sense or urgency to management.
I'm having a glass of orange juice, and then another.
Dennis: The Oilers need a top 4 Dman through free agency and it should be priority #1. They are quite a few to choose from, so hopefully they'll have their ear to the ground and nab one of them.
ReplyDeleteWonder if Marty Reasoner wants back.
ReplyDeleteI'd prefer Handzus or Brunette, but if Marty's agent calls, I'm listening.
Time to grab some Dmen and hit the accelerator. Teach these kids how to win early. It will serve us well. I'm not yet hopeful because this seems to have been thrust upon us in some ways, so we'll see what happens.
ReplyDeleteWord is the Oilers are trying to "help" Dale Tallon reach the cap floor and are dangling both Souray and Khabibulin.
ReplyDeleteWonder what else Tallon would want to take one or both of those contracts?
DANGLING both Khabibulin and Souray? Is this the end? As in THE END?
ReplyDeleteOh my God. NHL teams are going to drive themselves into the ocean over this wacky cap.
Good work Tambo. Lombardi doing this through the media was rather annoying but the end result is an even less expensive deal for the Oil.
ReplyDeleteWhile I suspect LA buys Fraser out, there might be value in keeping the ring in the room - something of more value to LA than the Oil.
Tambo gets his props for a good weekend. Monday will be here soon but for the rest of the day, no slagging from this corner.
The cap floor rising so dramatically is changing the outlook on bad contracts.
ReplyDeleteHell, Brian Campbell''s contract was one of the worst in the league and it got moved.
Good article about it here:
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/9766/are-long-term-deals-more-moveable-now
Huddy should be high on our targets for the summer.
ReplyDeleteI'm not terribly fussed over this deal with regards to karma-I think after the POS trade we've got a little credit to the good in the karma ledger.
ReplyDeleteDennis, I'm worried the Oil will try to fix the D through the farm, stand pat and audition what they have. Tambi can eval.
ReplyDeleteThat should ensure another top 10 pick.
DSF: Differrence between Campbell and Souray/Khabibulin is Campbell can still play. Good players with bad contracts will still be servicable, but "end of the road" players with bad contracts, will likely be thrown in the gutter.
ReplyDeleteI don't think anyone will be lining up for Redden's contract.
So what is the left wing line situation opening night?
ReplyDelete4
94
91
94
4
91
4
91
94
I just hope 91 gets his minutes this year.
Jake: I think 91 gets his minutes on the PK this year, either that or he'll be back on the point of the powerplay.
ReplyDeleteThe nice thing about 91 is I hope he understands that his versatility is infintely important to the success to this team. Being able to move players around into different roles is crucial for any team. 91 will be that guy for the Oilers, I hope he embraces, because he has a good hockey IQ to take on multiple roles.
"DSF: Differrence between Campbell and Souray/Khabibulin is Campbell can still play. Good players with bad contracts will still be servicable, but "end of the road" players with bad contracts, will likely be thrown in the gutter.
ReplyDeleteI don't think anyone will be lining up for Redden's contract."
Don't be too sure about that.
While I agree that Campbell is still a player, there are more than a few teams no scrambling to hit the cap floor.
I can see Tallon taking on a bad contract or two if a smart GM makes it worth his while.
Even with Campbell under contract, Florida has only 11 players signed and he's still $4M under the cap floor.
DSF: "Even with Campbell under contract, Florida has only 11 players signed and he's still $4M under the cap floor."
ReplyDeleteThats one Ed Jovanovski type player on the UFA market. McCabe could go back there at that price. I don't think its that big of a deal.
DangerMan said...
ReplyDeleteDSF: "Even with Campbell under contract, Florida has only 11 players signed and he's still $4M under the cap floor."
Thats one Ed Jovanovski type player on the UFA market. McCabe could go back there at that price. I don't think its that big of a deal.
Oh, I agree it's easy to solve but Tallon is a pretty smart guy.
He knows he's not winning anything in the next couple of years so, for example, why wouldn't he take Souray's contract instead of signing McCabe if he could also get a useful player or picks for his rebuild?
If the Oil are willing to dump reKhab, I wonder what their plan is for replacement?
ReplyDeleteSchneider? Van would never trade him to us.
LA ain't trading with us again for awhile.
Vokoun? Can't see him wanting to play on a rebuilder.
Mason has been in play this year, and is a nice thought.
Bring back Garon? Gerber?
DSF:He knows he's not winning anything in the next couple of years so, for example, why wouldn't he take Souray's contract instead of signing McCabe if he could also get a useful player or picks for his rebuild?
ReplyDeleteThats a good point, but at the same time, I'm hoping Tambo isn't going to give up assets to get out of Souray's contract. Just waive him, if no takers, then buy him out.
Lots of goalies out there who could help at way less money than Vokoun.
ReplyDeleteCap floor is higher then the cap was when the lockout ended.
ReplyDeleteI think Florida would take Khabby if the bum would retire. They'd love a cap hit that doesn't require actual money and they can play Markstrom more this season.
As for our beleagured GM goes. His dealings with this supposed wonder GM Lombardi have fared well for the Oilers.
Dustin Penner, a 7th Rounder, and Colin Fraser
For
Ryan Smyth, Oscar Klefbom, and a conditional third rounder (I think).
Yes I know there are circumstances but that's pretty darn solid.
ReplyDeleteEven with Campbell under contract, Florida has only 11 players signed and he's still $4M under the cap floor.
There's no pressure on Tallon if he has to sign 11 more players and is only $4M away. 11 minimum contracts take him over. Why would he take on more salary for the sake of it?
I'd be fine with 91 getting 4th line easy minutes this season to help develop his offensive game. They could move him up the line up if he excels, or in case of injuries in the top 6.
ReplyDeleteI think the Oilers should add another couple of veteran forwards so they can fill the remaining holes in the forward core which is defensive players, and PKers.
Hall-Horcoff-Hemsky
Smyth-Gagner-Eberle
Jones/Paajarvi-Handzus-Grier
Paajarvi/Jones-Cogliano-Omark/
Tough guy
A Paajarvi-Cogs-Omark 4th line against the softer teams should really give those kids a chance to flex their offensive wings against the easy comp.
Add one or two top 4 defensemen and that team might win some games.
DangerMan: While I agree that players with bad contracts who can still perform are much more likely to be moved, the equalizer for Souray or Khabibulin might be the shorter term. I can see someone taking that (maybe even on re-entry) because it's a relatively painless year or two vs. the Campbell's and Gomez's of the world.
ReplyDeleteThere's no pressure on Tallon if he has to sign 11 more players and is only $4M away. 11 minimum contracts take him over. Why would he take on more salary for the sake of it?
ReplyDeleteHuh? Aren't they still $26 million under the floor? Last I checked, Campbell brought them to $22m and change.
TSN video says we traded Colten Fraser. Funny.
ReplyDeleteTank one more year. RNH and the next top draft and some deals.
Hopefully just one more year of this shit.
Bank: The purpose of a 4th line is to get the other team's 26 minute Dmen to use more energy in the game than he otherwise would. If that 26 minute Dman is comfortable all game, your team is likely to lose because he'll have the puck a good portion of the game. So they key is to tire him out, force him into bad plays.
ReplyDeleteA high energy 4th line that finishes checks, but can still make hockey plays, is becoming more and more essential in today's NHL. I'm not a big fam of Omark or 91 on the 4th line.
Smarmy, you forgot Teubert.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't look as lopsided if you put Penner in terms of the picks we gave up.
The souray to fla thing should be an easy move to pull off with him having one year left on the deal.
ReplyDeleteSB makes a good point that Khabby would have big value as a retiree but there's no talks of that.
Moose
ReplyDeleteExactly. I was quoting the guy who said that was the situation and wondering if so, where's the pressure on Tallon. Didn't make sense. Thanks for providing the real numbers.
A high energy 4th line that finishes checks, but can still make hockey plays, is becoming more and more essential in today's NHL. I'm not a big fam of Omark or 91 on the 4th line.
ReplyDeleteThe third line of Jones-Handzus-Grier would be doing that service. Playing minutes against the high end forwards and 26 minute defensemen, and not getting killed defensively.
The 4th of Magnus, and Omark would be making the 5th and 6th defencemen look like idiots.
Ideally I would like to see a high energy 4th line like you, but I think the Oilers are at a point where they are still short on reliable vets to play in the top nine, and you need to fill those holes first.
Spoiler: It's crazy how much money they have to spend, I'm really curious to see how Tallon gets it done without taking too much of other people's junk. I imagine some older UFA's looking for a last payday might take an overpay on a 1yr deal to go there. Gonna be interesting.
ReplyDeleteNot to toot my own horn...but just wanted to say that I called Colin Fraser as Brule's replacement in the deal yesterday :D
ReplyDeleteFirst time I predicted anything on this board...now if I could only learn more about prospects...
We might see Nugent-Hopkins between two veteran wingers.
ReplyDeleteSmyth, Nugent-Hopkins, Hemsky
Hall, Horcoff, Eberle
Paajarvi, Gagner, Omark
Hartikainen, Lander, Jones
Brule, Cogliano
I think Cogliano gets traded. And they acquire a more legitimate centre who can play a little better
defensively and win a faceoff.
Or my favorite speculative combination.
Smyth, Horcoff, Hemsky
Hall, Gagner, Eberle
Hartikainen, Nugent-Hopkins, Paajarvi
Jones, Lander, Omark
Brule, Cogliano
I think Teemu got a taste last March, and he's not going to be denied in September.
Any thoughts on offer sheet to wayne simmonds. offer a 4 year 10-12 million dollar deal. Might be a bit of an over pay, but only would cost you a 2nd round pick. Fits in the cluster.
ReplyDeleteHas shown promise to deliver at the NHL level
Let's assume RNH makes the team, and there are no other moves.
ReplyDeleteSMYT HORC HEMS
HALL NUGE EBER
PAAJ GAGN OMAR
JONE ______ HART
WHIT ______
SMID GILB
PECK PETR
I can't see the Oilers being big players in the FA market considering that C hole could be filled by Cogliano, Brule, Lander or Vandevelde. Would they bring in a Reasoner when they have guys they want to develop?
The big hole now, besides the one in net, is that top pairing RD. I don't see how they can fix it unless there's a deal out there. Unless they're thinking Marincin makes the team for next season, which I seriously doubt.
Right now it's most likely that Vandermeer or Foster play and Gilbert moves up to 1RD. That and the goaltending should be enough to ensure another Top 10er next draft.
As for Tallon, why wouldn't he exhaust other options first? I think it will be awhile before we see Souray or Khabi go there. Souray seems tough since the buyout period ends soon.
I'd really like Vandevelde to get another 20-30 game shot at that 4C spot while Lander finds his sea legs in OKC.
ReplyDeleteAnd surely adding Smyth means we have seen the last of Jean-François Jacques? Right? Right?
ReplyDeleteTHIS IS THE XMAS THAT JUST KEEPS ON GIVING!!
No. Smyth will mentor JFJ and some of the lesser wingers.
ReplyDeleteI know it's mean, but couldn't resist. :-0
My bet is that ST does a Godfather "settle all business with the four families" Mo Green shot sometime this week by buying out Souray and flushing a bunch of guys like Stortini and O'Marra. Pitton and Marquardt are minor league rfa's who could also go.
That would mean JFJ gets a spot before Hartikainen. That's madness. Madness, I say!
ReplyDeleteThe thing that I always wanted to see was Smyth tipping Souray's cannon, alas, I don't think that will happen. Not that it needed tipping, but it would just give another thing for a goalie to worry about.
ReplyDeleteI hope this superb trade is enough to convince Ales Hemsky that he should resign in a week or two. Bringing Smyth back help legitimize the rebuild by balancing the extreme youth with age, experience and professionalism. Sign Hemsky Tambo! Complete a great summer.
ReplyDeleteLines will be hard to predict - RNH is a big variable. I'd like to see 94 with 89 or 93 but late in the game I cant see 10 and 94 playing on separate lines.
ReplyDeleteI have to admit, if FLA can't re-sign Vokoun, Khabibulin should be pretty attractive to them.
ReplyDeleteSpOILer
ReplyDeleteI've thought the same, but I'm trying not to. It's like thinking about what you would spend lottery win money on before the draw. It just makes not having your numbers come up that much more painful.
Marc... I know. Tallon could always sign Giguere or Osgood to overpays without giving a thing up.
ReplyDeleteThat's not exactly a ringing endorsement.
ReplyDeleteNor was it meant to be. Fraser is plug-n-play as you say, but you can put him in there and he won't hurt the team. (Believe it or not, he had the best +/- of any Oiler with 50+ GP last year, despite the 5 points and the shitty linemates.)
Such guys can be useful to playoff-calibre teams that run into injuries and such. They're not sexy players but it doesn't hurt to have a couple around. e.g. Toby Peterson proved to be more useful on a middling Dallas team than a terrible Edmonton squad.
At $825K I don't see LA buying him out, that's not that much more over the minimum for a guy with >200 GP under his belt. I think they got a marginal, but marginally useful, player in this transaction.
When considering cap situations it's sometimes worthwhile to calculate on the basis of "salary over minimum", which is only ~ $300 K for Fraser vs. $1.3 MM for Brule. A pretty significant difference, and I'm sure it's why Oilers were able to downgrade the draft pick in the deal.
So. Tambellini played hardball with Lombardi, a GM who many Kings fans talk about in the same way Oiler fans talk about Tambo.
ReplyDeleteAnd now, apparently some think Oilers look really shitty, because they took advantage of LAK's weakness in the Smyth situation.
Boo fucking hoo.
With all the ringing endorsements of Smytty's work ethic/professionalism/leadership skills/yadayada, am I the only person in the Oilogosphere that has some issues with the way he has now left three different organizations? Edmonton over a contract dispute involving a fractional difference on salary, Long Island without a second thought after they invested three first round assets for a 20-game rental, and now Los Angeles by requesting a trade (and then denying that he had)?
ReplyDeleteI know none of these things happened in a vacuum, but that white horse he's riding in on has a little mud on its hooves, surely. Or are we all content to blame his agent and welcome back the Smytty we all (think we) know and love with open arms?
/contrarian mode
I think the article I linked to is interesting because it sounds like Fraser may be kept AND that there was clearly a disconnect between the Oilers and Kings about whether or not he could be bought out.
ReplyDeleteLombardi talked about 4 NHL lawyers staying until midnight; I'm not a lawyer, but if ST says Brule can "play" and the NHL lawyers say the LAK were restricted in some way by Brule's injury then there's some grey area and it's curious.
Right? I think it is.
@LT: If Brule is facing a buyout than his agent needs to do due diligence to ensure his asset is covered as best as possible. If he ended the season on IR then that opens a Pandora's box for related afflictions like "concussion-induced depression" or whatever TF it was they were claiming.
ReplyDeleteI expect it's kinda like trying to fire an employee who's on stress leave, in other words damn tough. I can understand why Lombardi would want no part of it. If he's stuck with a $1.85 MM cap hit that he can neither buy out nor count on to play actual games, well, that's not good is it?
Tambellini makes me laugh.
ReplyDeleteI'm still evaluating him as a competant GM.
LT
ReplyDeleteThis is pure speculation on my part, but LA may have been looking for a guarantee that either Brule couldn't file a grievance or somehow block the buyout by claiming that he was still injured, or that if Brule did so that there would be no risk of him winning his case/blocking the buyout.
It's one thing to give up Smyth for pennies on the dollar, but it's quite another to get bogged down in legal proceedings, incur thousands in legal fees and potentially get stuck with a player and an extra $1.5M cap hit as well.
It's pretty hard for a lawyer to give an unequivocal guarantee like that, because you can usually find an arguable claim, even if it's only a weak one that is almost certain to be unsuccessful.
From the Oilers point of view, a small chance of an implausible legal claim probably wouldn't be enough for them to wantto change the deal, but for LA perhaps any risk of being unable to buy Brule out was, too much risk for them to take.
Lombardi leaked every step of this transaction, even the post-trade discussion. I am very suspicious of anything he has to say regarding it, and take it all with a grain of salt.
ReplyDeleteHunter
ReplyDeleteDo you read every 3rd word in a post?
No one cares whether LA feels good about trading a top 6 forward for peanuts. It is whether there is sufficient lasting animosity that the Oilers get paid back when they are vulnerable.
I also think, n/w/s that you and some Kings fans don't like Lombardi, that he has assembled a very nice roster to compete for SC moving forward
Has smytty given an interview to anyone yet? I haven't seen anything so he probably hasn't but I want to hear what he has to say. (When has anyone wanted to hear a Smyth interview before?)
ReplyDeleteSmytty wrote the cliché bits in Bull Durham.
ReplyDeleteSmarmy: I think I read somewhere that Smyth is doing a conference call today at 5:00 PM. I could be wrong, though.
ReplyDeleteBruce said...
ReplyDeleteWith all the ringing endorsements of Smytty's work ethic/professionalism/ leadership skills/yadayada, am I the only person in the Oilogosphere that has some issues with the way he has now left three different organizations?
Yep, just you . ;op
Actually, I don't think you have to look any further than the agent in this player's case.
Those Sportscentre highlights of Smytty... I watch them and just think, now that guy there is a hockey player. Just sheer fun to watch.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I'm giddy and one beer has not calmed me down at all.
ReplyDeleteSpoiler: It's crazy how much money they have to spend, I'm really curious to see how Tallon gets it done without taking too much of other people's junk.
ReplyDeleteTallon was interviewed at the draft and said he had every GM in the league calling him and trying to dump their shitty contracts on him to "help him get to the floor"
I don't see Souray making sense for him, but was a fan of Khabby.
Shit, I'd throw in the rights to JFJ and Robbie's old shine box to make it happen.
I should know better than to deal with Bruce's contrarian mode. After all, this is the mode that went to the wall over Stortini and think getting outshot is a good thing. But anyway...
ReplyDeleteSmyth's exit from Edmonton was all on the Oilers. They wanted extend everybody else first and then grind the better player.
The Islanders criticism is a complete throw away. The Isles knew what they were getting into there. Very few pending UFAs that were traded will resign with the team they joined at the deadline.
This latest one does concern me a little bit though. Supposedly family reasons, but one does wonder what went on in LA.
Great move here by Tambellini. Yes, it was the easiest deal for a player of Smyth's calibre that you'll ever see, but it was completed and the cost was virtually nothing. Fraser is a poor hockey player and 7th rounders are worthless.
ReplyDeleteI do see TOJ's point about not wanting to screw Lombardi because of future dealings, but I suspect the rancor will be directed at the agent. I hope anyway.
WG said:
ReplyDeleteTallon was interviewed at the draft and said he had every GM in the league calling him and trying to dump their shitty contracts on him to "help him get to the floor"
I don't see Souray making sense for him, but was a fan of Khabby.
I agree that Souray doesn't make any sense. Khabby probably doesn't either though. His salary is the same as his cap hit plus he's finished.
How about Horcoff? He's still useful and his actual salary for the next four years is tapers down nicely 6.5 6 4 3
Just throwing it out there... Opportunity knocks, right?
Horcoff has a NMC and had a decent season last year.
ReplyDeleteAllowed 4 and 14 to do their thing and covered their ass defensively.
He is overpaid for what he does/brings, but you can't move your best defensive center yet.
Stauffer interview of v3.1 about the Smyth trade.
ReplyDeleteTEAM 1260 has Smyth presser right away too
ReplyDeleteOne doesn't wonder what happened in LA.
ReplyDeleteOne welcomes him back and is glad he is here and doesn't worry about it. He wanted back, glad he's back.
One thing I wonder is how many Oiler's fans will turn on him...Hey, he is now our highest paid player (and we generally hate those lmao)
I know none of these things happened in a vacuum, but that white horse he's riding in on has a little mud on its hooves, surely. Or are we all content to blame his agent and welcome back the Smytty we all (think we) know and love with open arms?
ReplyDeleteI note that you had declared that you were in contrarian mode. Do you actually believe this or is this like me saying "Communism is a superior way to organize a society"?
Hey, Stortini has played 256 NHL GP, not bad for a 94th overall draft pick. It's also about 250 more games than people expected he would play around the time I first went to bat for him. He covered the bet IMO, and LT said as much himself in a recent post. I expect Zack's future lies elsewhere; won't be the first time Oilers let one get away or the last but oh well.
ReplyDeleteThat's a pretty significant distortion on my views of outshooting, but oh well again. Today's not the day for that discussion.
If you think Smytty's first departure is "all on the Oilers" though, well, I have a little trouble with that. Takes two to tango, and takes (at least) two to disagree. I tend to agree with Woodguy's description of Meehan, though, and think one of the fingers of blame should point in his general direction (and you know which one).
Tambo on Smyth trade and Brule.
ReplyDeleteTambo on Smyth
Doesn't sound like any ill will to Brule. Seems to me that there wasn't any issue with Brule or his camp.
More negative comments about Lombardi dumping all the details. Similar to the Oilers reaction with Ottawa dropping the names for the Heatley trade.
Great Heads up Woodguy. Thanks.
ReplyDelete@MC79: Yes I was in contrarian mode, just thought it was a conversation worth having. I find it strange that so many commenters can slag this guy or that for real or perceived shortcomings, and others get a free pass without so much as a raised eyebrow 140 comments into a thread.
ReplyDeleteYou of all people like to turn over rocks and question motivations and such, that's all I was doing in this instance. The returning hero who is widely perceived to be bringing a positive influence to our young players now has a track record of leaving four organizations, not always under ideal circumstances. Am I wrong to be a tad cynical?
PS: I do blame the agent for the most part, but four years and at least one tearful departure later, he still has the same agent.
ReplyDeleteThe returning hero who is widely perceived to be bringing a positive influence to our young players now has a track record of leaving four organizations, not always under ideal circumstances. Am I wrong to be a tad cynical?
ReplyDeleteCynicism is always good. At the same time, I'm not sure what planet you'd have to be on to say that he owed it to the Islanders to stay. They knew the deal when they traded for him. They didn't ask him to promise that he'd stay first.
His return from LA seems tied to family issues. I defended Pronger when he had the same issue in Edmonton so I'm not going to bury Smyth for it. As for denying that he asked for a return to Edmonton...I've got no problem with that. I suspect Lombardi leaked the story in the first place.
As for his leaving Edmonton in the first place...we'll likely never know what happened. The Oilers are the ones who decided to jerk him around over $100K though. They're the ones who decided to trade him for garbage rather than let him play out the year and force him to walk away over $100K.
@mc79hockey,
ReplyDeleteThe story I heard, was that a verbal agreement was in place on the $$ and then the agent came back with.
Sorry, we need another $100K per year. In fact, I heard one version where it wasn't a $100K but he wanted a luxury suite for his use - maybe like Cujo's cloud nine ?!. (approx. $100K per year)
I've even heard various stories that the agent never took the verbal agreement back to Smyth, but was sure Lowe would bend for the extra $100K.
Anyways, if you could buy Stauffer enough beer we might get the story. He's alluded to a shocking twist a couple of times on the Oilers post game.
Stauffer said that after the trade was done, Smyth walked into the dressing room to grab his stuff and said something like "I screwed up boys. Made a huge mistake".
I am a huge Smyth fan, but the I thought the $5.5M for 5 yrs was too much giving his injury history, etc.
In this instance, it takes two to tango (not like the Comrie to ANA debacle) and Lowe and Smyth/Meehan wear this together.
One doesn't wonder what happened in LA.
ReplyDeleteWell said.
When good things happen, you don't question them.
You just don't.
Edmonton over a contract dispute involving a fractional difference on salary, Long Island without a second thought after they invested three first round assets for a 20-game rental, and now Los Angeles by requesting a trade (and then denying that he had)?
ReplyDelete1. Edmonton - every Oiler and their mothers were being offered long-term contracts at premium dollars commencing in the summer of 2006. Roloson, Lupul, Moreau, Staios, Pisani, etc. The Oilers weren't exactly playing hardball with those guys, but did so with the face of the franchise.
It was after the Staios contract extension that Smyth expressed some frustration, and mentioned that this time he was not going to be a push-over, and that he preferred to have a contract going into the season.
About a month before the deadline, Lowe started negotiating through the media. Smyth was visibly upset with that, and that's where things started to break-down.
I don't really blame Smyth here - he gave Edmonton an opportunity to sign him for below market value (he went for 6.25M). They chose instead to allocate those limited dollars in the cap to aging bottom 6 forwards or 3rd pairing defencemen.
It was funny after the trade Lowe talking about the Billy Beane strategy of managing, just half a year after signing long-term contracts to aging veterans whom left no room for overperformance of their contracts.
At the time of the trade, many of us suggested Lowe wouldn't be able to replace a guy like Smyth in the UFA market. We were right. Nylander didn't work out for Washington, forcing Smyth's money on Souray was a disaster, and the cost of acquiring Penner did not exceed the value provided. Thank god guys like Drury and Gomez, whom Lowe was rumoured to be most interested in, took their talents elsewhere.
2. Long Island - Smyth had no obligation to be after the season. Snow knew what he was getting. One of the bigger reasons Smyth chose Colorado was the close proximity to Alberta, and it allowed his family to watch him 8 games a year. NY was not really an option.
3. I don't blame him for denying it re: LA. Always best to keep the media away in such negotiations. Unfortunately, Lombardi has loose lips.
It's true Smyth could have sucked it up for another 8 months. Smyth remarked the trade had nothing to do with a family member being ill of anything of that sort - just that he felt it was time to come back to Canada, with his kids ready to start school.
I guess it really boils down to is that he never really felt comfortable anywhere else. He's just an ultimate Canadian, an ultimate Albertan, an ultimate Edmontonian.
An ultimate Oiler.
The last similar player the organization had was ironically Kevin Lowe. Calgary had offered him more money in his final contract, but he chose to come to sign in Edmonton instead. You could see how much it was killing him when the Flames went on their SCF run back in 2004 - "Come back to me when the Flames have their 5th Stanley Cup ring"
It's unfortunate what transpired for Kevin Lowe - guy bled Oil, was competitive, and hated losing (hence his reluctance to a rebuild after the Smyth trade). Flames fans should hope Iginla never decides for a career in NHL management post-retirement.
Regwald said...
ReplyDelete@mc79hockey,
"The story I heard, was that a verbal agreement was in place on the $$ and then the agent came back with.
Sorry, we need another $100K per year. In fact, I heard one version where it wasn't a $100K but he wanted a luxury suite for his use - maybe like Cujo's cloud nine ?!. (approx. $100K per year)"
A slight, but very significant correction:
When it came down to the short strokes, and Lowe was haggling over the last $100K, Smyth offered to buy a suite for $100K if Lowe would sign off on the deal.
Lowe refused.
@DSF,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the clarification.
Maudite said...
ReplyDeleteOne doesn't wonder what happened in LA.
One thing I wonder is how many Oiler's fans will turn on him...Hey, he is now our highest paid player (and we generally hate those lmao)
Uh, no he isn't...Smyth is due $4.5M this season.
Horcoff will collect $6.5M.
Smyth's cap hit is higher but it hardly makes a difference at the moment.
PJO said...
ReplyDeleteNylander didn't work out for Washington, forcing Smyth's money on Souray was a disaster, and the cost of acquiring Penner did not exceed the value provided.
The whole Penner thing is really interesting looking back now. Of course it was really bad timing for the Oilers to sign an RFA. They had to start rebuilding as soon as Smyth was dealt and sending those picks for Penner was asinine and it wasn't clear he'd cover the contract. However, Bruce was right about how it played out - overpaid for a couple years, covering it in the middle and outperforming his salary at the end. I think he'll have a good year in LA this year, he's too good not to cover it.
So the target turned out OK, but the decision to pull the trigger was really awful. After Pronger and Smyth that should have Lowe's third strike.
I don't think I wrote that he owed it to the Islanders to stay, I just said he left without a second thought. You are right that those short-term rentals often wind up going elsewhere, though not always. As for the "shit" the Islanders gave up from him, from their perspective it was two first-round picks past and one future, not exactly nothing. So I daresay their fans were a little sore when he left after 20 games.
ReplyDeleteAll that said, I am glad he's coming back, so I should probably just fuck off with the concerns and enjoy the return of the conquering hero, white horse and all.
DSF: Smyth's cap hit of $6.25 MM ties the record of largest cap hit ever for an Oiler - with CFP 2005-06.
ReplyDeleteHorcoff's $7.0 MM actual salary in 2009-10 also tied the record for largest salary paid an Oiler - with Lubo Visnovsky in 2008-10.
Wayne Gretzky never even made a million bucks as an Oiler. Just sayin'.
@ Bruce
ReplyDelete"DSF: Smyth's cap hit of $6.25 MM ties the record of largest cap hit ever for an Oiler - with CFP 2005-06.
Horcoff's $7.0 MM actual salary in 2009-10 also tied the record for largest salary paid an Oiler"
So, what's wrong with this picture?
I just said he left without a second thought.
ReplyDeleteDo we know he never considered the NYI offer?
DSF: Another example of the poorly understood equation [Salary ≠ Cap Hit]
ReplyDeleteThis article really restores pride back into the Oilers
ReplyDeletehttp://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=567402&cmpid=oilers-twt-nhl_oilers
"We discussed for a while that we wanted to come back to Canada for personal reasons," Smyth said. "That's where home is for us. Edmonton is home.
"It's exciting to be back in [Edmonton]. Every time I go there, I get a warm welcome from the fans and friends we have there.
"You see the other side, you experience it and you learn lots," he added. "I've learned a tremendous amount this whole time since I've been in New York, Colorado, LA and now back as an Oiler."
Regardless, when you're a team with a 39-42M budget, allocating 5.5M for Smyth is a weighty decision to say the least.
ReplyDelete13% of today's cap would make said player the highest paid player in the league.
@ Bruce.
ReplyDeleteI seriously doubt you will see any complaints about Smyth's cap hit.
@ Danny
ReplyDeleteAnd yet Horcoff got exactly that contract a short while later.
Had Smyth been paid it's likely Souray would never have been an Oiler and Horcoff would likely be making south of $5M.
DSF, Smyth decision was made prior to the Katz bid to buy the Oilers. EIG were asking for a 39M cap that season. They spent 38M.
ReplyDeleteAfter Katz press conference, it was a PR war and the EIG were forced to spend. That's where Souray fit in.
I know Danny...but the PR war was necessitated by the fan base being pissed about Lowe bungling the Smyth deal.
ReplyDeleteSo was the Horcoff contract.
Just another example that three wrongs don't make a right. :)
Just saying it's not really bungling when you decide against committing 13% of your payroll to Ryan Smyth. A few short months later things changed dramatically, but at the deadline, that's how things were.
ReplyDeleteIt really was a shitshow nightmare for the EIG, but they invested a few more million into the payroll and extracted a lot more millions from Katz by playing hardball.
But yeah, if Smyth was signed, then Souray and Horc contracts probably look very diffent now.
I can understand Kings fans and MGMT being sore over 94 wanting to leave and tying their hands over the return by limiting where he`d play.
ReplyDeleteBut, the Oilers fucked 94 in `07 so I`m not hanging that one on him and he was a rental on the Island so I don`t even know why anyone would bring that up.
@ Danny
ReplyDeleteAnd the "shit show" continues unabated.
Tambellini just attempted to trade a player who is untradeable because the proper paperwork was not in place.
From the Kings Insider interview:
"LOMBARDI: “Well, it’s fair to say that we had four league lawyers in there who worked their butts off. I give the league a lot of credit. Those four people stayed there after a long day. It’s not butt-kissing. When they do a good job, I’ll tell them. Four of the league’s lawyers stayed there, well into the post-draft period, trying to find a solution. It was very clear, in discussing with them, that this player would not qualify as being healthy. We tried to find a solution. It was David Zimmerman, Julie Grand, Jessica Berman and Daniel Ages. We said, `We want this deal to happen.’ They said, `Dean, there’s no way.’ Those people tried everything. They looked at the documentation and this was something that could not happen. There was no solution, given the documents and everything that were in front of them. So I’ll leave it at that.”
Not only is Tambelini in charge of running an NHL franchise but he's likely driving on public roads.
Scary stuff.
Smyth didn't hang the Kings over a barrel by making a demand in the media. From the information available, it appears that Smyth made his request privately at the end of the season and it was Lombardi who later leaked the details. A brief glance at LA's cap situation tells one everything they need to know about Lombardi's motivations.
ReplyDeleteAnd like Dennis said, the Oilers screwed 94 and Smyth owed Long Island nothing.
slipper said...
ReplyDelete"Smyth didn't hang the Kings over a barrel by making a demand in the media. From the information available, it appears that Smyth made his request privately at the end of the season and it was Lombardi who later leaked the details. A brief glance at LA's cap situation tells one everything they need to know about Lombardi's motivation"
Exactly Slipper.
The only plausible explanation for Lombardi leaking Smyth's trade request is that he wanted to force Tambellini's hand. Why else would he do it?
Lombardi wanted that $6.5M cap hit gone and he didn't want any salary coming back.
Then Tambellini made a half hearted attempt to shove a bad contract down his throat all the while being totally ignorant of Brule's status.
I said from the start that Lombardi was in the driver's seat since he had Smyth under contract and could have easily said "no deal".
It was Tambellini who was under the gun and he eventually coughed up something that Lombardi found palatable.
I would wager Tambellini will be begging Lombardi to take Hemsky off his hands at the next trade deadline.
Geez, everybody's been reading that chapter in Don Meehan's book about how the Smyth deal fell apart and it was all the Oilers' fault.
ReplyDeleteHey I was pissed at the Oilers too, but I was also a little choked with Meehan and even Smytty himself for hiring such a DB for an agent. That was a fucked-up mess from both sides.
And if it really was the Oilers who fucked over Smyth full stop, does it make sense to bring back that exact player to mentor the young guys about the ways of the Oilers? I think there's a paradox in there somewhere, but fuck it, I'm happy Smytty's back and I fully expect bygones will be bygones in short order if they aren't already. It's a unique situation to say the least.
Tambellini just attempted to trade a player who is untradeable because the proper paperwork was not in place...
ReplyDeleteNot only is Tambelini in charge of running an NHL franchise but he's likely driving on public roads.
Yeah, so we should interpret all of this in favour of Dean "deepthroat" Lombardi. He got his ass kicked twice in the last 4 months by what you insist is an incompetent GM. What does that make Lombardi?
Tambo acted with class thru this whole thing - and continues to.
Lombardi and yourself could learn a lesson or two in that regard.
I said from the start that Lombardi was in the driver's seat since he had Smyth under contract and could have easily said "no deal".
ReplyDeleteStill grumpy about getting caught in that riot?
This continuing attempt to run down Tambellini is misplaced - on today of all days.
Ducey said...
ReplyDelete"Tambellini just attempted to trade a player who is untradeable because the proper paperwork was not in place...
Not only is Tambelini in charge of running an NHL franchise but he's likely driving on public roads.
Yeah, so we should interpret all of this in favour of Dean "deepthroat" Lombardi. He got his ass kicked twice in the last 4 months by what you insist is an incompetent GM. What does that make Lombardi?
Tambo acted with class thru this whole thing - and continues to.
Lombardi and yourself could learn a lesson or two in that regard."
Personal attacks aside... Lombardi got the Oilers leading scorer for his fifth rated defensive prospect and a draft pick that turns out to be a defenseman likely 3-5 years away and projects to be a #3-#4 defenseman if all goes well.
Then he trades an albatross contract (considering he needs cap space to resign Doughty and find a couple of scoring wingers)for a marginal NHL'er who he can buy out for peanuts.
Doubt his ass has any welts at all.
If Lombardi can turn his cap space into a couple of scoring wingers, he likely has assembled the team to beat in the WC.
How is Stevie doing?
Geez, and here I thought *I* was being a contrarian.
ReplyDeleteDSF
ReplyDelete"Stevie" is just doing what Lombardi did for 5 years.
Ducey said...
ReplyDeleteDSF
"Stevie" is just doing what Lombardi did for 5 years.
Lombardi was hired 5 years ago in April.
In that time frame the Kings have made the playoffs twice.
In his first three years, he brought in Johnson, Scuderi, Mitchell, Smyth, Greene, Stoll, Penner, Poinkarovsky and now Richards to help his young guns.
Stevie has done what exactly?
Now, can we just pretend that everything that's happened since he was traded away was just a bad dream?
ReplyDeleteAnd if it really was the Oilers who fucked over Smyth full stop, does it make sense to bring back that exact player to mentor the young guys about the ways of the Oilers?
ReplyDeleteSure. At least Smyth knows. The boys on Kingsway have apparently forgotten, or in the case of Tambellini, never knew in the first fucking place.
@DFS "Steve: Deano..I've got a couple of duds...can you help me out with that"
ReplyDeleteIf the reported workings are correct, this is a good observation. To get Lombardi to buy out Fraser, it only cost a 7th rounder. Buying out Brule was going to cost a higher pick.
Smyth still had value, but it goes to show the importance of restrictions on the GM.
@DSF "Then he trades an albatross contract (considering he needs cap space to resign Doughty and find a couple of scoring wingers)for a marginal NHL'er who he can buy out for peanuts."
ReplyDeleteYep. Lombardi just needs to find the idiot that traded for the ridiculous albatross contract and fire his sorry ass.
splatoti: plural of splatotum; n. (colloq.) staccato sounds made by Stortini's fists when making contact with the back of a player's helmet.
Ducey: that's if you think Lombardi was robbed in the Penner trade which I don't think was the case.
ReplyDelete