The next year was more infamous than anything, an absolute ripper that caught the nation's eye and didn't let it go for a couple of weeks.
Marcel Dionne (in photo) and Guy Lafleur were in the spotlight for a huge series between St. Catherine's (OHA) and Quebec (QMJHL) but things got so out of control they never did complete the series.
The draft that summer featured two original 6 teams with selections one and two; Montreal chose Guy Lafleur over Marcel Dionne and most would agree it was a wise move.
Others wonder if Dionne might have been the better player for Sam Pollock to select, but those who remember the politics know well it wasn't an option.
--
All kinds of trades today, and a rumor tonight that Ryan Smyth may be headed to the Flames. I think this is going to be a very interesting draft.
YK Oil's brilliant work is up over at C&B and speeds is doing his 31 over at hockey symposium. Christmas eve, folks. Christmas eve.
Tracy Lane
ReplyDeleteTreenasOil Tracy Lane
@
@TSNBobMcKenzie Penner has been offered to the Flames
20 minutes ago
Oh Great - Penner would play like a star for 8 games a year then, just like all of the other moody "need to be motivated to play" ex-Oilers.
ReplyDeleteIf Smyth goes to Calgary for minimal cost, I would think that the PR battle would greatly shorten the rope that Tambellini has.
Bookie: I agree, Tambellini would be under a lot more pressure if he didn't bring Smyth home. Especially because the Oilers need to spend at least $11M just to barely make the salary floor.
ReplyDeleteAs I mentioned in the end of the last thread though, can anyone explain why this is a good deal for Calgary? They lack a lot of cap space and have a surplus of overpaid, old players. If I'm Feaster, you have to pay me in picks/prospects to take on Smyth's salary.
I wonder if Tambellini has any idea how difficult life will be if Smyth goes to the Flames for a mid-level prospect.
ReplyDeleteStay the course, Steve; they're going to "Pat Burns" you, buddy. Director of lanterns.
As an addendum to my Flames bewilderment, SumOil makes a good point over at C&B: if Calgary had moved Regehr a month ago, they might have been able to hold on to Erixon. As critical we are of the Oilers management, I think I might prefer them to Calgary right now.
ReplyDeleteThis deal makes no sense for Calgary, but they do really hate Edmonton down there. They will probably trade for Smyth and then send him down to Abbbosford just to piss us all off and make their fans beam with joy.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Richard Cloutier (no idea how credible he is) the Oilers and the kings had a deal (Smyth for a 4th) but Calgary came in and offered something better. What I don't get is what Calgary could offer which is better? They don't have a 3rd round pick, would they be that crazy to trade a 2nd. Also, Smyth can just reject the trade to Calgary. He knows that he will be hated if he goes to Calgary. The Kings are going to trade him in the next 24 hours, Tambo just needs to hold firm.
ReplyDeleteWhy would Ryan Smyth be hated in Edmonton if traded to Calgary? The Oilers had a chance to deal for him and have apparently stalled or passed on the opportunity. Maybe Steve Tambellini was sleeping, it was probably a long flight.
ReplyDeleteLT - I generally agree with Tambellini (as of late) with his stay the course, don't get distracted by shiny things, approach. However, sometimes the shiny thing is a bus heading right towards you...
ReplyDeleteIt's like being honest with your wife about her new haircut. It sounds like a good idea - "She will appreciate the honesty and thus know I am genuine with my next compliment". It sounds good, doesn't it.
I can see the Tambellini press conference now "Once we took of the sentimental goggles, we realized that Smyth was not right for the rebuild and we need to stay focused on building this team into a cup contender". It sounds good, doesn't it.
This worries me....
ReplyDeleteCalgary, though not Feaster specifically, has a recent track record of overpaying for marginal assets. Eg 1. Phaneuf for Hagman, Stajan, Mayers, pucks. Eg 2. 2nd rounder and Johnson for Staios.
Whereas Tambellini prefers to get marginal and unwanted assets for free. Eg. Jones and Foster. So I bet Calgary is willing to give up more to get Smyth than Tambellini.
I don't think Smyth is worth the world but he can help this team. Tambellini, please, please, please don't F this up.
With Regehr being asked to waive his no trade clause, and the rumours of Penner and Smyth going to Calgary, it seems possible that there was a trade cooked up for Penner/ Smyth for Regehr.
ReplyDeleteFeaster can't be that dense can he?
I really don't see how Smyth helps Calgary in any way.
Also, Lombardi has to move Penner for something that beats #19, Tuebert and a 3rd. That might be difficult.
To see Smyth in Calgary is almost unbearable.
ReplyDeleteIf the cost is a 3rd or a 4th to have a year of Smyth mentoring the kids, it would be worth it. It's not like we're talking about bringing on board another Strudwick here for crying out loud.
Just get the deal done.
Lombardi (and Meehan0 is just bargaining. Feaster is helping him (them).
ReplyDeleteSentiment has no place in bargaining.
The proper response to Lombardi is. If Calgary wants him, they can have him.
Lombardi is bluffing.
I hear that Smyth is good in the room, somebody tell Tambellini.
ReplyDeletegodot10: You could very well be right, but then 3.0 is going to have to put on a hard PR spin as to why someone who actually wanted to come here was turned down.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't help with the recruitment of others.
This is not about upgrading talent now - this is about PR and he's being set up to look bad...again.
I hear that Smyth is good in the room, somebody tell Tambellini.
ReplyDelete*chuckle*
Still, gotta be worth a third, imo.
Blogger Ducey said...
ReplyDelete"Also, Lombardi has to move Penner for something that beats #19, Tuebert and a 3rd. That might be difficult."
Why?
Some GM's understand they made a mistake and deal with it.
Getting Penner's cap hit off the books and getting something useful in return would likely be sufficient.
Admitting your mistakes is far and away preferable to clinging to assets that will never help you move the boulder up the mountain.
Is JFJ still an Oiler?
Ducey: if Lombardi is indeed trying to move Penner, there's no chance he'll get anything close to what the Oilers received. There might be a team at the end of the 1st round willing to part with their pick (I doubt it), but I think if the Kings want to move him now, they'll have to swallow a pretty big loss.
ReplyDeleteAs for Calgary, after moving Regehr (and assuming no salary coming back) they'll have $11M in cap space. Why spend more than half of that on Smyth when you could probably resign Tanguay for less? They'll also need 3 d-men and will have to spend some money there unless they want to challenge for the league lead in goals allowed.
I think godot hits the nail on the head there. Time to stock up after work for the best weekend of the year. Nice.
ReplyDeleteRumor of Weiss and the 3rd for #1 being turned down.
ReplyDeleteThat'd be borderline insane wouldn't it?
"I wonder if Tambellini has any idea how difficult life will be if Smyth goes to the Flames for a mid-level prospect."
ReplyDeleteOnly a poor GM would bring in Smyth out of fear of fan reaction.
If Tambellini lets him go to Calgary this fan right here will give him huge respect.
God I hate Tambellini!
ReplyDeleteLMHF: Yeah, I don't think Weiss (with his salary and age) is enough. Although he's a solid player, he's also well paid. Oilers need to pay attention to the bottom line with these kids getting paid starting 2013 summer.
ReplyDeleteMy wife just asked me if Smitty was coming back. Last time she watched a hockey game was 2006 SCF.
ReplyDeletePretty smart lady IMO. Tambolowe: Make the bloody deal!!!!!!!!!!
Traktor:
ReplyDeleteFan reaction is the backlash for a team that has had nothing but misfires on the PR front for 5 years. You can't stick your head in the sand ignore the world around you (well on the other hand...some people do).
But it's not as if Smyth can't help this team in tangible ways (PK, PP) and in the room. Seem to remeber a press conference at the end of the year where the leaders stood right up and said some vets on this team would help.
It's not as if 3.0 has shown he's the second coming of Holland or Pollock and can tell everyone where to head off. He has to deal in the real world.
100% with Traktor. Good GM's don't make deals for the fans approval. If they did, Carter and Richards would probably still be Flyers.
ReplyDeleteCall the fucking bluff and check all the sentimental bullshit at the door.
I just don't understand how the Flames can afford Smyth. They've got $7 million in cap space right now, so Smyth would almost use all of that up.
ReplyDeleteEven if they move Regehr and add Smyth, that leaves them with $4.81 million to re-sign Tanguay and Morrison with and also sign some Dmen.
I just don't see it. What's the source for this rumour?
3.1 mil isn't that well paid LT. We get a 28-year old 50-60 point C, plus likely Larsson (or Huberdeau, Landeskog, etc). That's better value than Hopkins now and in a couple years. Suddenly we have that middle core to go with the youth core and can build toward taking advantage of the ELCs.
ReplyDeleteUnless of course you were joking. I would've taken that deal and run away laughing.
If Smyth goes to Calgary and we had a shot at him, my name calling of Tambellini as "Mr.Dithers" will change to "Mr.SoonToBeFired". Do we all see now why Tambellini was passed over several times as a GM.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry but, trading for Smyth = 3rd round pick, getting Smyth to help the kids = worth $4.5 million, Providing leadership in the room and exciting the community = worth Priceless.
GET it done "Mr.Dithers" !!!!
Subtracting Regehr and adding Penner instead of Smyth adds a little more wiggle room, but not much. I can't see this one either.
ReplyDeleteBob McKenzie tsn: It is not done but CGY is working to acquire Ryan Smyth. Smyth has final say with his NTC but it may be as close as he gets to EDM. #tsn
ReplyDeleteWeiss is also up in 2013.
ReplyDeleteRich:
ReplyDeleteFans are welcome to feel how they feel, say what they want, stop buying tickets, or even cheer for another team.
But can we agree that only a total putz would make a move based on fan reaction?
Tambellini should make the decision based on what he feels is best for the team, not what's best for the fans.
4th round pick, take it or leave it.
The hockey decision on Smyth is probably pretty nuetral, so it is reasonable to consider fan reaction.
ReplyDeleteMelancholy: TSN had the rumour on Smyth (Bob McKenzie and Dreger). I also agree that it makes no sense given the cap implications. I would not be surprised if it was an attempt by LA to elicit the kind of responses we're seeing on this blog and raise the pressure on Tambellini. Lombardi is not in a good position here and probably doesn't like the idea of being ripped off by the Oilers for a second time in a few months.
ReplyDeleteLMHF: I find it interesting you say that with such certainty. Are you CERTAIN that RNH won't develop into an elite 1st line player? Because if Stu is saying that there's a good chance of that, why make a deal for an older player that you can probably fill in in free agency?
Hall, Horcoff, Eberle (at least) have all mentioned it would behoove the team to get more and better leadership. You couldn't dream of a better leader for this team.
ReplyDeleteBlogger Lowetide said...
ReplyDelete"Hall, Horcoff, Eberle (at least) have all mentioned it would behoove the team to get more and better leadership. You couldn't dream of a better leader for this team."
This.
Nothing else matters.
Especially the use of behoove...a word that doesn't get nearly the respect it deserves - Plito
Pierre LeBrun
ReplyDeleteReal_ESPNLeBrun Pierre LeBrun
Kings had more trade talks with both Flames and Oilers today regarding Smyth. He's going to Alberta, but which team?
6 minutes ago
Cactus - Yes, I'm clairvoyant...
ReplyDeleteSeriously though, I'm not looking at it that way. I'm looking at making the team better and accelerating the process without sacrificing the staying power we could have. Whether we have the mythical "ELITE #1 CENTER" or not is really inconsequential. It's about having a bunch of good hockey players in the same place at the same time at an affordable rate. It's also about ROI. I'm not a big believer in magic beans, even when the beans are supposed to be pretty good.
Traktor:
ReplyDeleteWe can agree on that. You can't have the fans - or bloggers - making your decisions for you because once you do you're done.
There's no question Lombardi is playing this up. He feels he's got 3.0 by the short ones. You have a fan base that's not happy about the last few years, a player many fans relate to and he's publically put his hat in his hand.
If this were Weight it would be very easy to say no because he's obviously been at the end of his career.
Because it's Smyth,it's much more complicated. You can make arguments for both sides (old, contract, brittle vs leadership, PK & PP skills).
But 3.0 could do himself a lot of good if he played this different and when you have several bad years in a row you can't allow yourself to look weak. There are a lot of other domino's tha fall behind that when you do.
"Hall, Horcoff, Eberle (at least) have all mentioned it would behoove the team to get more and better leadership. You couldn't dream of a better leader for this team."
ReplyDeletePretty much every Oiler says they like when Steve Macyntire is in the lineup.
But you never mention that when dissect Smack's game.
Traktor: Really? REALLY? You're comfortable with that take?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI can deal with the 4th... maybe.
ReplyDeleteTwo things irk me about it. 1) Smyth will probably sign with Edmonton in the offseason anyways. 2) It makes Edmonton a tweener in the lottery race of 2012.
If they can trade 2012 first overall to get into the top 3 or 4 this draft, then Smyth makes a tonne of sense.
Every Oiler asked said that Souray was great in the room and a true professional.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Cactus on Lombardi's situation.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if Smyth ends up in Calgary because they over pay for him then my disappointment will be directed at Smyth rather than Tambo.
Smyth is instantly (and likely longterm) better than 1 or even 2 3rd rounders.
ReplyDeleteAnd a GM that ignores the fan base longterm does so at his peril.
Smyth has to come home. He's everything the team needs. He's only got a year left and the team is waaay under the floor and doesn't need it anyways.
ReplyDeleteBring him home and let's start making winning a priority again.
Blogger Traktor said...
ReplyDelete"Every Oiler asked said that Souray was great in the room and a true professional."
And they were right Traktor.
Repeating that mistake would not look good on the Tweedles.
Lowetide:
ReplyDeleteI take everything players say with a grain of salt, especially when a reporter asked if leadership or veterans would be helpful.
What are they going to say? I'm against bringing in vets? Come on.
You're smarter than that.
Find me a quote where Hall or Eberle suggested bringing in vets on their own without being lead down that direction by the reporter.
chmza said...
ReplyDeleteI agree with Cactus on Lombardi's situation.
Also, if Smyth ends up in Calgary because they over pay for him then my disappointment will be directed at Smyth rather than Tambo."
Nonsense.
Tambellini has a choice to make and Smyth has limited control over his destination.
If Tambellini can't get this done, it's all on him.
Traktor: If you can't see the value of Ryan Smyth to this team then there's not much to say. He'd be a wonderful addition, and not just an end of the career shadow-of-himself guy.
ReplyDeleteRyan Smyth is STILL an NHL player. How many of those are on the roster? Wonderful addition.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteJust as Calgary's cap situation makes a deal for Smyth insanity, I'm very curious how Tambellini would make the salary floor without a trade for Smyth?
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers are currently $11M below the necessary $48M. They can probably add about $4M in salary simply by resigning RFAs Cogliano, Smid and Peckham. That would leave $7M for 3 forwards and 2 defencemen. Assuming Petry makes the team it's $6M for 3 and 1.
The reason this is interesting to me is that you wouldn't be able to fill out the remainder of the roster with kids simply because their cap hits wouldn't be large enough. For example:
Hartikainen: $875,000
Vande Velde: $850,000
Pitlick: $888,000
Without Smyth, Tambellini will be forced, solely for cap reasons, to add between 3 and 5 veteran NHLers, depending on their cap hits. With Smyth in the fold, the Oilers could choose to go young if they preferred to. Which would you rather see? (Yes, I'm aware that it's technically a false dichotomy).
If Calgary offers something absurd then I won't fault Smyth or Tambi. I mean Smyth wants to come back to Alberta but the Kings are still going to try and do what's best for the Kings.
ReplyDeleteIn other news, what did the Dallas Stars do to piss off Brad Richards? He declined to waive his NMC after already indicating he will test free agency and the Stars won't re-sign him. What the hell? Way to be a team player. The Stars aren't making him sign anywhere, they are merely asking him to help them gain some assets. There is literally zero downside for him.
ReplyDeleteTambellini has a choice to make and Smyth has limited control over his destination.
ReplyDeleteNobody's saying much about what Smyth's family issues are but you wonder if someone in the family of he or his wife is having some health issues and they want to be at home. That'd explain him being open to Calgary or Edmonton. The whole thing seems to have kind of come out of the blue too - he seemed to be coping away from Alberta.
If that is the case, tough to blame Tambo or Smyth if Calgary's willing to overpay. LA's doing Smyth a favour in that circumstance and it'd be awfully ungracious of him to completely bend them over the barrel.
Lombardi speaks...he's one smart due:
ReplyDeletehttp://lakingsinsider.com/2011/06/23/lombardi-talks-about-richards-trade/
Yeah, I bet Dan Cloutier agrees DSF.
ReplyDeleteTambo sure is one to look a gift horse in the mouth. Ryan Smyth is a real transitional player, not Colin Fraser, not Jim Vandermeer, not Kurtis Foster.
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers have a spot to fill and he fills a need....whats the hold up? Was giving up Brule giving up too much?
mc79hockey said...
ReplyDelete"Nobody's saying much about what Smyth's family issues are but you wonder if someone in the family of he or his wife is having some health issues and they want to be at home. That'd explain him being open to Calgary or Edmonton. The whole thing seems to have kind of come out of the blue too - he seemed to be coping away from Alberta.
If that is the case, tough to blame Tambo or Smyth if Calgary's willing to overpay. LA's doing Smyth a favour in that circumstance and it'd be awfully ungracious of him to completely bend them over the barrel."
I doubt Snmyth is trying to bend anyone over a barrel but it wouldn't surprise me if Lowe is.
It's his M.O.
Smarmy, the only reason why Calgary is in the picture is because Dithers dithered. He still gets the blame.
ReplyDeleteInteresting comment from Lombardi. He still sees Smyth as a good player whose contract isn't a problem which, frankly, I agree with. Stauffer was going on that he's a $2.5MM to $3MM player at this point the other day and I just assumed he was huffing gas during the breaks.
ReplyDeleteI doubt Snmyth is trying to bend anyone over a barrel but it wouldn't surprise me if Lowe is.
ReplyDeleteIt's his M.O.
"Here, Brian, I'll demonstrate it. So what you do is, you drop your trousers and then you bend over like...HEY STOP"
DSF:
ReplyDeleteMy statement was made in the context of a Calgary overpayment, a la Staois. If it happens to be the case where Tambellini drops the ball and Smyth could have been easily/relatively easy to acquire then yes, I would be upset with him.
Edmonton is getting all gushy about Smyth and how he wants to finish as an Oiler. Shouldn't the opposite happen if he waives his NMC to go to the Flames?
Lombardi going public with Smyths request sounds to me like he is trying to turn the heat up on Tambellini. Why else would he put that out there for public consumption?
ReplyDeleteYou know. Even if Smytty got hurt during the summer water skiing. He'd still be worth it to the team if he went to Hall and Eberle's and made them take down the couch fort and toss all that KD and Potato Chips in the trash.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Lebrun, the Oilers' first offer for Smyth was Souray. Hilarious. HFesque.
ReplyDeleteJon... that is truly curious about Richards.
ReplyDelete"According to Lebrun, the Oilers' first offer for Smyth was Souray. Hilarious. HFesque."
ReplyDeleteI guess he should have started with Khabibulin then work his way to Souray.
mc79hockey said...
ReplyDeleteYeah, I bet Dan Cloutier agrees DSF.
NHL GM's and Toronto lawyers are not without sin Tyler.
Recovering from your mistakes is the key to success. :)
Seriously? Souray for Smyth? That has to Lowe's doing because nobody else could be that big an asshole.
ReplyDeleteBlogger chmza said...
ReplyDeleteDSF:
My statement was made in the context of a Calgary overpayment, a la Staois. If it happens to be the case where Tambellini drops the ball and Smyth could have been easily/relatively easy to acquire then yes, I would be upset with him.
Edmonton is getting all gushy about Smyth and how he wants to finish as an Oiler. Shouldn't the opposite happen if he waives his NMC to go to the Flames?
Why?
It just means Lowe is an idiot.
DangerMan said...
ReplyDelete"According to Lebrun, the Oilers' first offer for Smyth was Souray. Hilarious. HFesque."
I guess he should have started with Khabibulin then work his way to Souray."
Maybe Souray, Khabibulin and JFJ will get it done.
Lowetide:
ReplyDeleteNobody said that Smyth wouldn't help and you know that.
A veteran RH center that could win draws would've helped the last two years as well but its about having a plan and sticking to it.
I can see the benefit of bringing in Smyth but I also understand why it wouldn't be a slam dunk. Others only see with tunnel vision and its unfortunate.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIf Weiss is a free agent in 2013, why not just sign him then?
ReplyDeleteTambo should be holding out for a very good young controllable player to give up RNH.
Smyth has played one full season in the last 4. You can expect his offence to drop on a worse team in EDM. He's old and expensive.
If this was any other player, it would not even be a discussion.
Its emotion, and those emotions are likely to ebb in the middle of a 10 game losing streak in Feb.
Smyth must know that EDM has put on offer in for him. He just needs to hold out and say no to the Calgary trade and he is an Oiler. If he waives to go to Calgary, well then he never really wanted to wear the Oil drop again.
Anyway, if Calgary trades #57 (they don't have a third) for Smyth, they are lunatics.
I guess Lombardi would be happy if he read the comments here - if the supposed "smarter" Oilers fans are clamouring for Tambellini blood like a Roman mob at the Colosseum, what are the "regular" fans like?
ReplyDeleteLet's review the facts of the situation:
1) Smyth asked for a trade back home (Alberta)
2) There are only two teams to choose from
3) One of these teams (Calgary) has a serious cap crunch and a plethora of aging players
4) Smyth has a NMC and can stop any trade he doesn't want
5) LA has an interest in generating addition cap room given the acquisition of Richards and the imminent signing of Doughty.
Put this all together and you have a situation in which Lombardi has almost no leverage. Because of his own cap issues, he may be forced to buyout Smyth if a deal can't be done. Assuming Feaster hasn't gone insane (a dangerous assumption) he can play along in the hopes of Edmonton giving up more. And if he's really willing to pay a lot for Smyth and screw the Flames in the process, we shouldn't compete with a madman.
Does anyone know what's actually been on offer here? People are screaming for heads to roll and we don't even know if Tambo has submitted a good offer! What if he's gone with a 3rd round pick or a prospect like Martindale? If Lombardi's balking, should we up it to a 2nd/Hamilton (in spite of LA's lack of leverage) just to appease fans?
If Tambellini did that, then we really should be calling for his head.
Interesting day.
ReplyDeleteLombardi is going to do the best he can for his club. I love Smyth, always have, and the Oilers need two or three of him but if Feaster is being goofy then Tambellini has to hold the line.
Of course then he has to pick up the equivalent for less which he will not, I think. Not a lot of faith in Tambo to do the right thing.
Funny how Richards (Brad) has been getting villified by some. Ever been to Murray Harbour? I'm just down the road from there every summer. Tiny place, nothing to it. Good people there, cliched as it sounds.
Richards does not want to play in Toronto. Pretty common knowledge. Why would he agree to being traded to a place where he has no intention to sign? Too complicated. No point to it.
Crazy trades by Philly. They got good value imo but there go two very very good players. A major part of that Canadian Olympic team and a second guy who was almost on that team.
Schenn, Simmonds, Voracek and the pick are a nice return but Philly is a weaker team unless the plan is to flip a couple of the kids for a comp to Carter or Richards and they sign B. Richards.
Philly's window is closing with Pronger, Briere and Timmonen aging.
L.A. on the other hand looks pretty damn good if they can add a winger or two.
I don't understand the sentimentality red herring.
ReplyDeleteGrabbing Smyth would give them a top six winger for one year at $4.5M real dollars plus the bonus of a larger cap hit for a salary floor team. He's also an excellent special teams player. And a veteran with a tremendous amount of experience for a young team.
All that for a 3rd round pick? Good grief. If Tambo made this deal, it would be far and away the best deal he has made.
So does today put to rest the iron-clad, time-honored cliche that's been tossed around for the last 6 months that first line centers aren't available via trade?
ReplyDeleteNot saying it changes my mind about RNH, it doesn't, but the only guarantee is that every player has his price. Gretzky, Wayne.
LA and Calgary and Meehan are bluffing.
ReplyDeleteThey are playing you guys for sentimental fools.
Feaster would be a fool to take a 35-year old player with a $6 million cap hit in the state the Flames are in.
Call the bluff.
Ducey - lol, seriously? Smyth has missed twenty games in the past three years. That's really good yet your argument is he's fragile.
ReplyDeleteChrist.
Smyth is expensive? Who gives a shit? This club spent millions burying guys in the minors last season and they have the Khabibulin millstone on top of everything and they are still under the floor by a lot. They have to get up there somehow.
May as well bring a guy in who can play or should they bring back Souray who can't even handle the AHL? Maybe Redden?
Tambo has to keep his head about him here but he should be able to pull this off for very little. If he cannot then he should pass, yes, but Lombardi has basically said he's got a gun to his head. Tambo better know to pull the trigger.
I don't remember who said it over at Tyler's site, but it's a major white flag statement if the Oilers avoid making an easy hockey decision here. It means they fully intend to be in the lottery again. At this point, I'm not sure that's a good message for the players or the fans.
ReplyDelete"So does today put to rest the iron-clad, time-honored cliche that's been tossed around for the last 6 months that first line centers aren't available via trade?"
ReplyDeleteThere was 2 in fifteen years and then there was 2 in an hour. I'm not saying its impossible to trade for them, but its awfully close.
I'll go on the record and say these deals get Holmgren fired.
Cactus, agreed completely. I don't believe he will end up in Calgary.
ReplyDeleteBut if he does and Tambi had a shot at him for the CGY 3rd, before Meehan brought CGY into the negotiations than there's gonna be some rage. I think he's probably safe from my wrath but it will be there if the unthinkable, and very unlikely, does happen.
Rivers:
ReplyDeleteIf someone said 2 weeks ago that trading draft picks for a 35 year old forward is a no-brainer I think they would've been met with a lot of resistance.
You can call it a sentimental red herring but the deal only starts to make sense when you replace "35 year old" with Ryan Smyth.
Rivers: if you know the last offer of the Oilers, please share it. If they're really trying to lowball LA with a 6th rounder + Stortini or the like, then this is clearly a Tambellini roadblock. Unless you have that information however, it is just as probable that something legitimate has been offered and LA is holding out hope that they can somehow extract more.
ReplyDeleteI saw a link to one LA fan site that was seeking #31 and Ryan O'Marra for Smyth. Should we get a deal done immediately if that's the price? I think not.
"we have the night manager of a 7/11 running a $100 million dollar business."
ReplyDeleteQuote of the week there... We should print up t-shirts.
I'd take the Weiss + #3 for #1 deal, but only if Dale sweetened the pot with another prospect or a sure to be high 2012 2nd rounder.
The problem with that, is that Larsson isn't going to be there at 3.
Total posturing in the Smyth rumor. We'll see what our "night manager" is made of with this one.
Traktor: you don't even have to say Ryan Smyth. We're talking about a player that is still a top six winger and the commitment is minimal. The cost is a draft pick that is maybe a 5% chance at an NHL player. This is an easy hockey decision, unless of course the Oilers do not want to improve their standing at all.
ReplyDeleteRiversQ:
ReplyDeleteYou hit the nail on the head. If they go out and get Smyth, then the Oilers have to stop the tank-fest, and actually go out and do their jobs.
We have all heard from various sources and the GM himself that Edmonton is going try and trade up in the draft tomorrow, possibly in the top 10.
ReplyDeletePerhaps that 3rd rounder is kicker that gets Edmonton the player they want with their 2nd pick, just as the a 3rd rounder was the kicker that helped LA get Penner.
I certainly wouldn't want to take any bullets away from Stu at this point.
I don't see a Smyth trade until the 1st round is completed.
I
RQ agreed... There's been a couple of articles in town already to the effect that this is the Oil's last shot at #1. That they're supposed to compete with the rest of the conference next year. Not taking the easy improvement is a statement in direct contradiction to that goal. And it will get examined publicly.
ReplyDeleteI suspect that Tambellini is delaying though, to take this past draft day so fthat it's a 2012 pick that gets traded, and I figger Lombardi wants a 2011-- which is why we've seen the pressure tactics.
I saw a link to one LA fan site that was seeking #31 and Ryan O'Marra for Smyth. Should we get a deal done immediately if that's the price? I think not.
ReplyDeleteWell, Ryan O'Marra is a waste of Rexall oxygen, so we are really just talking about the pick.
Normally, I'd say the return is well worth a high 2nd, but this is a 30th place team hoping to get to the low 20's, so yeah that's probably a little steep. But not by much.
Traktor said...
ReplyDeletePerhaps that 3rd rounder is kicker that gets Edmonton the player they want with their 2nd pick, just as the a 3rd rounder was the kicker that helped LA get Penner.
If only we had an extra 3rd.
I agree with a number of the comments to the effect that the Oilers shouldn't overpay even though it would be great to have Smyth back. I can't see how the Flames would be willing to take on his cap hit but not be willing to pay Tanguay even 2/3 of that. Remember, Tanguay loved playing in Calgary, Calgary fans want him back and he got a bunch of points last year. Flames blogs have right now seem to be of the view that bringing back Taguay would be better than bring in in Smyth. If Feaster makes this deal instead of giving Tanguay a reasonable raise, given how tight Calgary is against the cap I'd say he's more of a bozo than Tambellini for not making the deal happen at an earlier opportunity. It makes more sense that Smyth would return to the Oilers than go the Flames. I'm by no means an expert but I can't figure out the Calgary angle here.
ReplyDelete1) THe Weiss + #3 for say #1 + Cogliano would mean the Oilers would end up with Weiss and Huberdeau.
ReplyDeleteColorado would be able to trade down to #4 and get Landeskog there.
2) The only way to get both RNH and Larsson is to pick RNH at #1 and take two big contracts from New Jersey to get the #4 if Larsson is still there. The Oilers might be stalling on Smyth because they want to keep cap space available if they end up with Rolston, Colin White, and Larsson tomorrow.
Traktor said...
ReplyDeleteIf someone said 2 weeks ago that trading draft picks for a 35 year old forward is a no-brainer I think they would've been met with a lot of resistance.
I'm pretty sure that would have been your kneejerk reaction. I think the rest of us would have said "Depends. Which 35 yo?"
And most of us are talking pick not picks.
ReplyDeleteGodot: #2 is possible.
ReplyDeletegodot10 said
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers might be stalling on Smyth because they want to keep cap space available if they end up with Rolston, Colin White, and Larsson tomorrow.
The Oilers have something like $25M in cap space. They could absorb the contracts of White, Smyth, and Rolston pretty easily.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe Smyth deal for Calgary is possible if Feaster is blowing things up.
ReplyDeletei.e. Iginla to LA for draft picks, prospects, Smyth, and Penner.
As bad as the Smyth curse has been up until now, how much worse will it get if he BECOMES A FREAKING FLAME?????
ReplyDeletetrak: so now you believe the Oilers are gonna move up in the draft?
ReplyDeleteJesus, man, you're half-foolish or you're not even being serious.
I don't want to give up a tonne for 94 but if the Kings are even being somewhat reasonable that I can't imagine why this wouldn't be a great move for the Oil.
Granted RQ, but I don't think they would want to spend 60% of it on those 3 guys. Godot's play would allow them to use Rolston in the mentor role, and pick up the extra pick. It's possible that's the reason for holding off on Smyth.
ReplyDeleteGodot10 said:
ReplyDeleteThe Smyth deal for Calgary is possible if Feaster is blowing things up.
i.e. Iginla to LA for draft picks, prospects, Smyth, and Penner.
DeeDee said:
As bad as the Smyth curse has been up until now, how much worse will it get if he BECOMES A FREAKING FLAME?????
After reading these comments, I'm looking forward to an Iginla curse. :D
Ottawa's Murray on TSN just said he won't be able to move up in the draft.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIn a nutshell, ff they don't acquire Smyth, it's because they intend to tank again in 2011-2012.
ReplyDeleteYou have a solution (LW) falling in your lap to address one of the team weaknesses - and you're considering passing on it?
There is absolutely no reason the Oilers cannot contend for a playoff spot next year with some active, aggressive moves (veterans overpaid on short-term contracts, addressing goaltending).
Perhaps part of the reason the Oilers are content to continue tanking is because the fans (minions, including myself) continue buying tickets to games. As Dennis puts it, "They lick Tambo's ass and call it ice cream"
Smyth is a Flames jersey would make me literally sick.
_______________
On another note, Khabibulin's daugther is dating MPS. See Sasha Khabibulin's profile pic. Apparently they took a vacation in Maui.
Two great lines I read today:
ReplyDeleteAfter the Richards trade:
"Holmgren has lost his mind,quick someone tell Tambellini to offer Khabby for Hartnell"
"Can someone please tell Tambellini that Smyth is "good in the room""?
Haha
Not picking up Smyth is a major tell that the tank is on again for next year.
Not that they are guaranteed to be out of the lottery with him, but his work ethic would rub off and the kids are progressing.
Maybe v3.0 is forced into trading for 94, he'll traded 40 for 4th rounder and bring Richard Sevigny out of retirement to play behind Khabby. That'll keep them in the lottery.
There simply is no good argument against the Oilers trading for 94 if your goal is to win hockey games.
Ducey,
Smyth's last 4 seasons:
82gp
67gp
77gp
55gp
Not an ironman, but far from being a big problem, especially with a full season in the year immediately proceeding this one.
john k:
ReplyDeleteThe Richards refusal thing has been catching my eye too. Is taking a couple phone calls from Burke or whoever (or just letting them go to voicemail) over the next week really such an imposition that you can't let Dallas get a couple of scraps for you?
Making sure they get absolutely nothing when it doesn't have to put you out at all is quite a statement.
Also saw a solid tweet today from Whitney about how he realizes that all the trades are exciting for fans, but that as a guy who's been through a couple he knows first-hand how they turn an athlete's world upside down.
It really must be just a crazy life. I don't know why we don't have more good documentaries about it.
LuLu on the 4th:
ReplyDelete"We've been involved in these situations at different times," Lamoriello told NorthJersey.com. "You really can't say you will or you won't (trade the pick) because you have to have an open mind to anything and everything no matter what it is. You never know what somebody else wants or needs. The whole key is how do you get your team better today and tomorrow? That's the key."
"Unless you are dealing with somebody that is so far out ahead of everybody else, you have to listen," Lamoriello said. "No matter who they are you have to listen because they might just put you in a position where you can't say, 'no'."
Passing on Smyth would be Forgivable if Tambo had one impressive thing on his resume; but he doesn't. A waiver pickup, two bargain basement signings that could have panned out but haven't (yet) and 2 30th place finishes. If July 1st and second goes by and all we have is the hope that maybe we sign Eric fucking Belanger... Than what Wayne said will be true.... The lovefest surrounding the rebuild will be over.
ReplyDeleteAlso,
ReplyDeleteTambellini has said the words "change the culture" 93572307523 times.
If he doesn't trade a 3rd or 4th for 94 it was all bullshit.
Its one thing to dump thecaptainehtanmoreau and other players you don't like, its another to bring ones in who lead by example.
If he doesn't bring in Smyth and re-signs JFJ I'm burning him and Lowe in effigy down at their offices.
Book it.
Clearly V.03 will need to be shown the door if he manages to fuck this up. Smyth wants to come back, he can still play, he would be a great example for the younger kids, the Oiler's have the cap room and the actual dollars to do it, his departure was ugly and this will bring closure and above all, he still has a certain amount of cachet in the league and he wants to come to a City that hasn't had a lot of NHL player begging to come here.
ReplyDeleteLowebellini might as well announce that the tank is on for another season if they don't pull the trigger here. How exactly do they plan to sign all of the kids someday once they are all off of their 1st contracts? I haven't heard their wisdom on this yet.....I mean if MPS, Hall, Eberle, RNH, Dubnyk, Marancin, Pitlick all pan out (not for a second do I think they all but indulge me), there's no chance in hell they can all be fit under whatever the hell the salary cap will be at that time.
See the Chicago & Pittsburgh model for what happens when you have too much of a good thing (when the good things are all the same ages).
Let me know when you want to go down there WG. I'll bring the beer or the scotch, whatever your having.
ReplyDeleteSee the Chicago & Pittsburgh model for what happens when you have too much of a good thing (when the good things are all the same ages).
ReplyDeleteSee ATL, NYI, FLA, CBJ etc when all you do is pile up high draft picks without surrounding them with real NHLers to show them how to win and helping them to win.
pboy,
ReplyDeleteStella and lots of it.
Haha!
How does a team that has obvious difficulties attracting free agents, a team that ranked one of the worst destinations, a team and management with a certain reputation around the league turn their back on this opportunity?
ReplyDeleteWhat better way to attract future talent than by showing the league that someone wants to play here, that there are guys that love this team and city and that this team rewards those players? That this team stands behind its dedicated players?
What better way to prove the motto "once an Oiler, always an Oiler?
This deal has so many advantages it's sick. Leadership, goal-scoring, righting wrongs, cost, cap floor, I have difficulty believing Tambi is that foolish, he'd let this opportunity pass.
Ducey,
ReplyDeleteSmyth's last 4 seasons:
82gp
67gp
77gp
55gp
Not an ironman, but far from being a big problem, especially with a full season in the year immediately proceeding this one.
Yep. He has about 5 seasons ever where he has played 82. He has a ton of mileage on the odometer because of the way he plays (shoulders, ankles, hands, etc). And he is 35.
But he is good in the room :-)
I see in the Journal this evening that Lombardi has indicated that Smyth is being traded to Alberta. He has done eveything but take out a full page ad.
A deal to Calgary makes no sense. The fans in EDM are being suckered by Lombardi.
You guys are so critical of Tambo but his job is to grind out the best deal he can get. He ground Lombardi on the Penner deal (it came down right to the last minute) and I hope he does again.
i wonder if at some point Tambo has to worry about really pissing off his players?
ReplyDeleteI mean if he wants to sign Hemsky, don't you want to keep him happy?
If the goal is to make Hall love the Oilers so he will re-sign beyong 7 years, shouldn't one do what one can to not obviously be terrible?
From Duhatschek:
ReplyDeleteThe Kings, according to sources, have asked Ryan Smyth to waive his no-trade clause in order to trade him to the Calgary Flames. Smyth is said to be thinking it over...
Spoiler: If that's true then Smyth should pull a Heatley and say "No, I know there's other teams interested."
ReplyDeleteSimple as.
There's a post on HF that says Renaud Lavoie of RDS is reporting that Smyth will be a Flame shortly.
ReplyDeleteJesus Christ, doesn't anyone stay up late on Xmas eve any more?
ReplyDeleteThere's also posts on HF saying we can't trade for Smyth because our top 9 wingers are set with Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi, Hemsky, Omark and Jones.
ReplyDeleteAs in, Ryan Jones.
I swear to god if Smyth is dealt to Calgary for a song I'll string 3.0 up by his fucking toe nails.
Supposedly done . . . seems like Calgary. Puts a little damper on tomorrows affairs
ReplyDeletehttp://lakingsnews.com/2011/06/23/source-ryan-smyth-trade-is-complete/
I'll bring the bailing wire.
ReplyDeleteKC:
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't say who to. Just that it's done.
That's what I got too. And will be announced.... Saturday?
ReplyDeleteJust speculating based on all the calgary momentum across the web. Can't see how Tambo could have swung it based on what we've heard from McKenzie and the like.
ReplyDeleteKC:
ReplyDeleteBut you have every Edmonton media guy saying it's done to Edmonton; including guys like Spector.
There's also the entire logistics behind the deal from a Calgary side, especially since it sounds like they're getting Stafford and his 4.0 cap hit for Regehr should he waive.
PDO: Great points but ever since Spec said it was done, everything totally shifted. I get how it makes no sense from a Calgary standpoint but the post on the HF board seems to put it over the top.
ReplyDeleteTo tell you the truth, before I heard the Flames were in on this I was a take it or leave it kinda guy about bringing him back. Since then, the prospect of seeing smyth in a flames jersey is just driving me nuts.
I hope you're right but the evidence is mounting against us.
I just read Lavoie's tweet. It isn't clear if he is expressing insider knowledge or opinion:
ReplyDelete"Ryan Smyth devrait quitter vers Calgary dans les prochaines heures. Smyth should be traded to the Flames and not the Oilers."
Two uses of "should". Hmm.
Well, all I know is if he does sign in Cowtown, there are going to be two very angry fan bases here in AB. Although, I could see some Calgary fans deluding themselves into thinking this is the right move. I mean, aren't they supposed to be dumping cap and signing younger players? I thought Feaster was smarter than this.
ReplyDeleteOh and I'm not saying Smyth is not a good pick up. It's just that he's definitely not what the Flames need these days. Unless they are trying to drag out their mediocrity.
Dreger tweet earlier today:
ReplyDelete"Robyn Regehr unlikely to decide tonight on whether to waive no move clause to clear trade to Buffalo"
Dunno how they can trade for Smytty until they know this is a sure thing.
Spoiler:
ReplyDeleteI cannot recall where I read it, but believe it was a reputable guy who said that if Regher does not waive a Sarich to Buffalo deal could replace it (though he has a NMC as well of course). Take that for what it is worth I suppose.
Aside from that, according to CapGeek, the Flames have 2.146 M in cap space at the moment since the 59.4 M cap is still in place until July 1. That would mean Smyth's 6.25 would put them over by ~4.1 M? Indeed, even if you removed Regher's cap hit with no salary coming back, they would still be just over the cap.
However, the season is over and thus Smyth's actual cap hit at the moment should be zero (i.e. the full 6.25 hit has been fully charged toward LA's cap for the 2010-11 season). Therefore, his 6.25 cap hit would not 'count' against the Flames current cap, but rather only on their 2011-12 cap that starts July 1 and which will be 64.4 M (actually ~70 M over the summer with the 10% buffer). If this is the correct analysis, they have no cap issues at the moment, and would have the summer to clear out some cap space, making a trade right now financially possible I believe.
D Oil
ReplyDeleteIf they have to find a way to dump salary to make the cap later in the summer, their trading partners will have them over a barrel. Not to mention just about every decent player they could trade away has a NTC/NMC.
The fact that the deal is being announced Saturday suggests that it is Edmonton, not Calgary. Edmonton is trying to move up in the first round of the draft and that could affect which second day picks are available to send to LA. Also, for PR purposes it would be better to bring back Smyth on a different day than when they draft first overall.
ReplyDeleteI believe w/the CBA that you could go 10% over temporarily during the summer. You just have to be under or at the cap by the start of the season.
ReplyDeleteSo Calgary can get the deal done even if they don't move someone by the weekend.
Gonna be ugly if Smyth is wearing a Calgary jersey next year and it really is true that 3.0 (or maybe Vish) did offer Souray first to Lombardi. What an insult.
Totally Unrelated, but funny sports story. One of the minor owners of the Dal Mavericks launched a lawsuit last year to have Mark Cuban removed from his position of control as majority owner because of his "reckless and careless decision making".
ReplyDeleteCuban filed this defense document - pretty humorous.
Hopefully Katz can be equally cocky in a few years.
This remains a comically stupid deal for Calgary to make. Exactly the wrong type of player (aging, 1 year contract) with a cap hit far too large for them to stomach. If you're crazy enough to further deplete your defence in order to sign Smyth, while leaving Tanguay without a deal, you might as well change your name to Milbury.
ReplyDeleteEdmonton still remains, by far, the best fit. As I mentioned in a previous post, if Smyth doesn't come here, Tambellini will be forced to spend somewhere between $6-10M in FA just to make the salary floor. Even if tanking is on the agenda, it's probably hard to avoid bringing in more useful plays than SMac and JFJ given that requirement. Let's think rationally about this! :)
Otherwise, we should all take a deep breath and stay patient (a crazy thought on the interweb). Sometime in the next 3 days, Smyth will likely be traded and then we'll finally know the terms. All those people who are screaming for a deal might be less enthusasitc if the asking price ended up being a 2.
One last thing, for those who have damned management in the past by taking everything they say literally, consider the following:
ReplyDelete"After this weekend, we won't be as protective with our draft picks. To this point, we've cherished them," said Oilers president of hockey operations Kevin Lowe.
Would seem to indicate they plan to be more competitive, no?
Rich
ReplyDeleteIf LA were to trade for and buy out Souray it would save them $1.5M in actual money and give them $3.85M in cap space next season. Those are both tangible benefits for LA, and such a deal would certainly be better for the Oilers that giving up a third round pick, and still having to buy out Souray.
Why exactly is it an insult? Obviously LA hopes to get something useful for Smyth, and to not take back any crap, but only an idiot starts negotiations at the other side's ideal outcome. It would be optimistic to think that LA would agree to take Souray, but I don't think that it's a bad starting point for negotiations.
If I'm Lombardi my response:
ReplyDelete"Souray is a broken down defenseman who was banished to the AHL for ripping your management acumen. He played half a season after breaking something else again and you want to send him here?"
"Unlike you Tambi, we can ice a blueline."
No one in the NHL wants him. The guy can't play anymore.
Other than though, Souray's a great idea.
I suspect that Souray was offered not as a legitimate option for LA's blueline, but for the purpose of buying him out, which would provide both cap and actual monetary savings to LA.
ReplyDeleteIt is the same template as the POS - Vandermeer deal last season. Edmonton took an badly overpaid veteran who could nonetheless play a useful role on a young team and Phoenix took a player Edmonton was planning to buy out and bought him out themselves.
You cannot go 10% over the cap until July 1st.
ReplyDeleteYes, the cap is still in place after the season.
"After this weekend, we won't be as protective with our draft picks. To this point, we've cherished them," said Oilers president of hockey operations Kevin Lowe.
ReplyDeleteThere goes the town fool again, announcing to the world his intentions in advance.
book¡e: that Cuban thing is hilarious. I'm surprised he didn't photocopy his dong while he was at it.
ReplyDeleteWell, the top end of the 2012 draft looks to be strong and deep. It would be absolute folly for a team in Edmonton's position to send away those picks.
ReplyDeleteSo of course Kevin Lowe is giving us advance warning of his intention to do exactly that.
Tambellini will be forced to spend somewhere between $6-10M in FA just to make the salary floor.
ReplyDeleteBecause I am wrong in all things around here perhaps y'all can explain this.
The floor is likely $48M.
The Oilers are currently at $37M for 14 players. This does not include Souray, Peckham, Smid, Cogliano or another ~5 roster spots.
Assuming the Oilers pay an average of $1 M per player for the rest of their roster after the 14 signed they have (~$8 million), and buy out Souray (close to $4 million), they will be at about $49 Million.
How do they need Smyth to get to the Cap floor?
Ducey,
ReplyDeleteSouray's buyout caphit would be 2.4MM against the cap according to capgeek
The thing about the whole cap floor thing for me is that these are the same jokers who spent to the cap 2 seasons ago and finished 30th.
Now they are one of the lowest spending teams in terms of NHL roster in the league.
Its one of the reasons I gave up my season tickets. Winning hockey games at the NHL level isn't important to them in the near term, so paying for shitty hockey wasn't in my plans.
I think they are building something good. Katz is spending real money on the AHL/development system (aside from paying Souray to play in the AHL), so its not a matter of "we don't have the money" (regardless of what that prick Laforge says)
It just strikes some of us as disingenuous that the local media are mentioning Smyth's salary as a stumbling block.
Rather than saying the Oilers need to sign him to hit the floor, I think the correct bitch is that given the term of 1 year, his contract size shouldn't be an issue to an organization so close to the floor that paid a player more to play in the AHL last year.
Ducey: Here's my math:
ReplyDelete$11M to the floor
-$4M to sign Cogliano, Smid and Peckham (this may be done for less, but 4M seemed a reasonable round number)
-$1M for Petry (unless Tambellini goes into compete now mode, he will be on the team)
That leaves $6M to sign 3 forwards and 1 defenceman. I did not include the Souray buyout hit ($2.4M for 2011-12 according to capgeek) because it is still unclear what will become of him. Even if he is bought out, let's assume that the Oilers will exceed the cap floor by about that amount anyways (reasonable, given prior spending).
Based on these calculations, my argument was simply that the Oilers must do one of the following things to make the salary floor:
1) Acquire Ryan Smyth and his $6.25M cap hit.
2) Bring in experienced NHLers.
Unless they buyout Souray and attempt to spend within $100,000 of the floor, one of these situations must occur.
2 other things:
ReplyDelete1) Ducey: I make no predictions as to the quality of said experienced NHLers!
2) Dreger is tweeting that Winnipeg will announce the new team name prior to the selection. How loud will the boos be when they announce it won't be the Jets?
Line of the day so far:
ReplyDelete"We turned this enormous fortune into a bunch of lottery tickets. I hope we win an enormous fortune with them!" - Paul Holmgren
-Chemmy from Pension Plan Puppets
Watching this video I think its clear that Holmgren did not want to make these trades. He's very emotional in a few different parts of the video.
ReplyDeletePHI fans are putting all this squarely on Snider's shoulders.
The money quote is at 2:40
Reporter: "what was the reason that you had to make such bold moves"
Holmgren: "I'm not sure there is a reason"
M. Richards and a bunch of Flyers were partying in an Ottawa nightclub last Thursday.
ReplyDeleteDo you want your captain being the head of party central also? Some people can work hard and party hard and not have it affect them for a long time. For a lot of people, this approach is disastrous.
Pronger partied when he was young. Almost cost him his career. From his time with the Oilers, we know he became a gym rat and fitness freak. And that he encouraged MacT to have more off ice time for the players in the gym.
A team divided against itself cannot win.
I find it ironic that so often Tambi is derided for not making moves of significance yet when someone like Holmgren does, the reaction is decidely mixed to say the least if not fairly critical.
ReplyDeleteHere's some perspective. The Flyers went into this offseason with 5 UFAs, 3 RFAs, less than $2 Million in Cap Space and only 17 players signed AND with fairly widespread acknowledgement that their starting goaltending was not good enough to compete for the Cup. In addition, their prospect pipeline was severely depleted with the Hockey News among others ranking them 30th overall in terms of quality of prospects.
After yesterday, I think you can make a solid argument that Holmgren's moves addressed all of the issues above.
1) New starting netminder - Check
2) Prospect pipeline replenished - If not a full check, certainly a partial. When you add one of the top prospects in hockey, an 8th overall and an additional second rounder, you're addressing the problem
3) Cap Space - Check. According to capgeek, they're now sitting at 18 players signed with $7.5 mil in cap space. They've made progress on the salary front.
Aside from Richards, you could argue that Philly's 4 best forwards in this year's playoffs were Briere, Giroux, Leino & JVR. Add Simmonds & Vorachek to that mix and this team still has a very formidable forward mix.
Bryzgalov's contract may become a millstone but he's also almost singlehandedly pulled Phoenix into the playoffs the last 2 seasons and you would think the senior Russian would be a good mentor longterm to Bobrovsky.
Ulimately, this trade will be judged on whether Brayden Schenn turns out as good as Mike Richards and whether the 8th overall will end up as good as Jeff Carter (11th overall). Given Philly's success in drafting players like Richards, Carter, Giroux and JVR, I wouldn't bet against them.
More importantly, no team is more aggressive in building through trades than the Flyers and it's interesting in hindsight to note how often they get the better of the deal. Check out this link for the Flyers full trade history. http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/trade.cgi Certainly some stinkers in there (every team's got a few), but many clear winners as well.
I pitch Penner and Smyth, for Jones, Teubert, the 19th and two thirds.
ReplyDeleteOf course we might win some hockey games and that would ruin the plan.
So maybe then flip Penner for a move up the draft board.
GMillerTSN Gord Miller
ReplyDeleteby DarrenDreger
Hearing that Calgary is closing in on a deal for Ryan Smyth. He waives his no-trade and the Flames give up a late round pick.
If it's just a late round pick, then we'll see if the Edm media has grown any balls.
ReplyDeleteI mean, seriously, no one should let that pass without calling the Oilers on what looks like a clear-cut agenda: tank until someone fires someone.
Its impossible to justify passing on Smyth on the last year of his deal for a mid-late round pick. Absolutely impossible but Shambellini will get away with it by saying the names Taylor hall 4 or5 times Eberle 5 or 5 times and the media will walk away smiling.
ReplyDeleteThere is no downside to this deal, no way it shouoldnt be made.