Wednesday, June 22, 2011

Draft Week Post #8: Oiler Draft Facts

There are many stories about the Edmonton Oilers at the draft table that I can share with you. The time they drafted an ineligible player (Robin Kovar) which caused the Vancouver Canucks table to scream "cheaters" at the Oiler table. It would have been a better story if Kovar had done something as a pro hockey player, but then again the Oilers drafted him.

I kid.

Here are a few draft items I've collected over the years. Feel free to add in and pile on.

  1. In the year of Shane Doan, the draft was held at Northlands in Edmonton. The Oilers walked to the table with cheers of "Doan, Doan, Doan" and selected Steve Kelly as a giant FU to the Oiler faithful. What you may not know is that John Short took the time to ask some of the drafting group how much of a gap there was between the two players. Razor thin was the response. Never let it be said that the Edmonton Oilers give in to pressure.
  2. When they selected Alex Plante in the first round in 2007, it marked the first time a defenseman had been drafted by the Oilers in that round since Mathieu Descoteaux in 1996. In both seasons, the defenseman was the second player taken in the round (Boyd Devereaux in '96, Sam Gagner in '07).
  3. The most popular position in the first round for the last decade or so has been center, with Jesse Niinimaki, Marc Pouliot, Rob Schremp, Andrew Cogliano, Sam Gagner, Riley Nash and Jordan Eberle all being selected since 2002. In the same span, they've chosen one goalie (Dubnyk) and one defenseman (Plante), plus franchise winger Taylor Hall. No wingers (none!) were chosen in the first round 2002-2008.
  4. The selection of Magnus Pääjärvi-Svensson in 2009 represents the highest ranked European choice in team history.
  5. MPS was also the highest ranked winger chosen since Steve Kelly in 1995 (Ryan Smyth was taken the previous season).
  6. Taylor Hall of course is the highest ranked player and winger ever drafted by the organization.
  7. During the "Coke Machine" era, the Oilers would routinely draft kids 40+ slots before one might have expected them to go. Geoff Paukovich was NA#80 (which would put him well into the 100s overall) in 2004 and they picked him 57th overall, dealing NHLer Jason Chimera for the right to do it. JF Jacques was ranked #88NA in 2003 and they picked him 68th overall. MBS has done it once, taking Cameron Abney miles before he was projected to be drafted.
  8. Despite going 248th overall in 2003, Josef Hrabel was ranked #30 Euro by Central Scouting. His ridiculous hgt/wgt ratio (6-1, 176) probably helped the slide.
  9. Rob Schremp fell big time. ISS had him top 5 and CSB had him #10NA but he fell all the way to #25. Mike Green went to Washington 4 picks later and he was ranked #9NA.
  10. Every year the Oilers say they tried to trade up. They've been after Pitkanen, Coburn, Barker, Alzner, usually defensemen but it never works out.
  11. The Oilers DO trade a lot on draft day but it's usually down. The infamous Parise-Pouliot deal, the Niinimaki-Higgins trade are just two, although they did trade up for Riley Nash.
  12. The 2002 trade that saw them send Jochen Hecht to Buffalo for 2 second-rounders featured Darcy Regier looking like he was about to pass out with glee on the draft floor. Seriously.
  13. Steve Tambellini on the draft floor looks like Mr. Krabs, wandering around calling people "me boy",  asking bewildering questions, bothering staff with superfluous suggestions and mispronouncing the names of Oiler drafts and the colleges they played for last year. He also has some kind of issue with every phone on the table.
  14. Stu MacGregor looks like the guy who can't wait for the suits to leave and secretly hopes the GM will fall asleep. He disconnected all the phones 20 minutes ago.   
  15. Darl Katz looks like the guy invited by the owner to sit at the draft table.
  16. Garnet Bailey was a scout after spending a little time coaching once his playing career ended.
  17. When they drafted Messier, several references in newspapers mentioned he was "raw-boned." That phrase is seldom used these days.
  18. Jari Kurri lasted until the 69th pick in 1980 because NHL teams were convinced he would remain in Finland for military duties.
  19. Scott Metcalfe was compared to two-way LW Dave Hunter the day he was drafted.
  20. We've talked about him a lot on this blog, but Tony Hand is the most interesting human interest story Edmonton drafted.
  21. Through about 1983, the Oilers basically buggered the other NHL teams senseless at the draft table. They were that good.
  22. Draft years go sideways very quickly. I always use the 5 year window as a "tell", meaning we can call the 2005 draft (too many small guys, specifically Chorney) but college kids (like Vande Velde in 2005 and Horcoff 7 years earlier) can save a draft.
  23. The 2007 draft--despite three first round picks--has a bad taste. Plante was a raw player and he suffered major injury problems during key development years; I believe the 2007 was the final straw for Kevin Prendergast's time in the director's chair. After the Parise-Pouliot and Niinimaki drafts, not getting two players the team valued from three first round picks cost him his job. The fact that the draft was weak did him no good.
  24. The 2010 draft is years from being properly judged, but so far the Oilers group looks very good. It's hard to find down arrows in the group and the up arrows fill the sky.

240 comments:

  1. The time they drafted an ineligible player (Robin Kovar) which caused the Vancouver Canucks table to scream "cheaters" at the Oiler table.

    Some things never change in Vancouver

    ReplyDelete
  2. Good article Lowetide. Those historical draft bits and bites were great.

    Here is an interesting piece by TSN on draft history at each ranking, few Oilers are sprinkled in here and there.

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=566269&navid=DL|NHL|DraftMicrosite2011

    Close to home, interesting the #14 position biggest dissapointment is Jim Malone (uncle to Ryan, brother to NHLer Greg). I was 10 years old and mom made a great big congradulatory cake with a Ranger logo on it that we brought up to Jim's parent's place in the hometown. It was cool he got drafted but I remember just wanting to keep the cake for us at home lol. Sad he never made the NHL.

    ReplyDelete
  3. The thing that pissed me off more than anything about "Who wants to be a Millionaire", was that they would use the "ask the audience" life line first.

    James Surowiecki wrote a book called "The Wisdom of the Crowds", detailing that "large groups of people are smarter than an elite few, no matter how brilliant—better at solving problems, fostering innovation, coming to wise decisions, even predicting the future."

    Ask the audience should always be saved for the last life line. If you are not able to use it in a big money spot, that's too bad.

    The problem with the Pendergrast Oilers is that they thought they were smarter than anyone else.

    They were wrong, as most people are when they think that.

    MBS has done well in going with "BPA" with Hall, MPS and Eberle, they were all the "consensus pick" at their spot.

    MBS has done every better in later rounds. Round 2 last year is exhibit A. (Abney is the exception)

    Also,

    Steve Tambellini on the draft floor looks like Mr. Krabs, wandering around calling people "me boy", asking bewildering questions, bothering staff with superfluous suggestions and mispronouncing the names of Oiler drafts and the colleges they played for last year. He also has some kind of issue with every phone on the table.

    Really?

    Christ.

    Source?

    ReplyDelete
  4. Kinda funny on a few levels, but when Gillis was announced as a nominee for GM of the year award on tonights awards show, they displayed a photo of Steve Tambellini.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Wow. I like Oiler draft stories. Steve Tambo's storie concerns me thoug.... I'm gald Stu's there.

    ReplyDelete
  6. WG: That or large groups of people can convince other of something that's absolutely not true because they all agree on it.

    I'd save the Phone call for last because the person I'd call probably would have google.

    ReplyDelete
  7. Craig Button on TSN says if there was redraft today of the 2010 draft that he would take Seguin over Hall.

    I think Button should have used the "Ask the Audience" lifeline.

    What a lugnut.

    Is LT at the draft?

    ReplyDelete
  8. Ask the audience should always be saved for the last life line.

    Not necessarily.

    If you have no clue on the question, and suspect your phone call friend doesn't either, you may have no choice.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Ducey: No. Hope to go to a draft one day, though.

    ReplyDelete
  10. If you have no clue on the question, and suspect your phone call friend doesn't either, you may have no choice.

    True, but most contestants defaulted to it.

    Your phone a friend/remove wrong answers are best used on the easier questions imo.

    fpb,

    WG: That or large groups of people can convince other of something that's absolutely not true because they all agree on it.

    Haha!

    One of the hallmarks of youth is being convinced you are right about everything.

    That's not a bad thing necessarily, but the beginning of wisdom is knowing what you do not know.

    ReplyDelete
  11. 15. and 17. go onto the all-time list of LT gooders.

    "raw boned" indeed...

    ReplyDelete
  12. Insert:

    "Hey WG, If the beginning of wisdom is knowing what you do not know, they why do you comment on hockey?"

    Ha ha ha.

    FU

    :-)

    ReplyDelete
  13. WG: No that's called basic psychology.

    I don't say that because I believe it is, I say that because there's studies on it.

    It was shown clearly that if someone's influenced by a group on making the wrong choice, most of the time he will do it. Gang effect.

    Cigarettes is great example of this.

    Me contradicting you is not suggestive of my youth, it's suggestive of my doubt, and that's something every man should have.

    ReplyDelete
  14. That Mr. Crabs thing isn't true. You just stuck that in there.

    ReplyDelete
  15. FPB said:

    "Me contradicting you is not suggestive of my youth, it's suggestive of my doubt, and that's something every man should have."

    Out of the mouth of babes.

    Conventional wisdom is among the most dangerous of human traits.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Craig Button on TSN says if there was redraft today of the 2010 draft that he would take Seguin over Hall.

    Obviously. Sequin won the Stanley Cup.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Tony Hand... I was too young to "hear" about him before.

    Thanks LT, for your time, effort and trouble... Great post!

    ReplyDelete
  18. Conventional wisdom is among the most dangerous of human traits.

    No where did I mention "Conventional Wisdom"

    Simply ask a question to a crowd, then ask the same to individuals, who can be experts.

    Crowd wins far too many times to dismiss.

    "Conventional Wisdom" refers to "long held truths". I am not talking about that.

    Out of the mouth of grumpy old Dys fans... :)

    ReplyDelete
  19. WG: Actually, you're committing one of the biggest Sophisms.

    Appeal to the mass.

    That's fallacious and not acceptable in a debate.

    If you appeal to people they have to have some kind of expertise. Just asking people does not constitute a valid argument in any debate.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophism

    Actually that sums it up well:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

    I've seen ''the crowd'' suggest that the Sun gravitated around the earth in who wants to be a millionaire.

    ReplyDelete
  20. That basically states that general consensus doesn't mean it's absolutely true.

    The same can be said for expert opinions.

    However when 9/10 expert opinions agree, they're probably on to something.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Does anyone remember the "buy an argument" skit on Python?

    It may have moved here. :-)

    ReplyDelete
  22. In the Russian millionaire, the audience deliberately gave wrong answers.

    ReplyDelete
  23. If you appeal to people they have to have some kind of expertise. Just asking people does not constitute a valid argument in any debate.

    I'm not debating anything.

    If you ask a question to 100 people and two 3 experts the crowd will be right more than the experts.

    I'm not appealing to authority either.

    Read my argument.

    LT,

    Does anyone remember the "buy an argument" skit on Python?

    It may have moved here. :-)


    A: SHUT YOUR FESTERING GOB, YOU TIT! YOUR TYPE MAKES ME PUKE! YOU VACUOUS TOFFEE-NOSED MALODOROUS PERVERT!!!

    M: Yes, but I came here for an argument!!

    A: OH! Oh! I'm sorry! This is abuse!

    ReplyDelete
  24. WG:

    ''If you ask a question to 100 people and two 3 experts the crowd will be right more than the experts.''

    Exactly not.

    Again:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

    ReplyDelete
  25. Wow.. just been watching the NHL awards show and wow,.. the NHL is so bush league..

    ReplyDelete
  26. You say you don't argue that, experts have more relevence in a debate than consensus, but then you argue consensus is right more times than the experts.

    And that's simply not true. Knowing will always overcome believing.

    ReplyDelete
  27. You might want to read the Wikipedia page on the "Wisdom of crowds." It's subtly different than the fallacy of appeal to popular opinion. (The book is well regarded by people, like me, who have PhD.s studying and teaching this stuff.)

    On A variety of issues, the consensus of a large crowd is more likely to be true than your own opinion. That's a fact. The question is when and where should you rely on the wisdom of crowds: you shouldn't always do it, so when should you?

    ReplyDelete
  28. And that's simply not true. Knowing will always overcome believing.

    fpb,

    Its swell that you grace us with your genius, but the more you write the more you prove you know nothing.

    Save the lectures for the guys under the bridge and lets stick to hockey.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Kris: When you don't know. When you can't call on someone who has the meanings to get the facts. AKA an Expert.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Ducey: And the more you write the more you prove you base yourself on empty words.

    ReplyDelete
  31. More Spongebob references, please. That was gold.

    Does that make Kevin Lowe Mermaid Man?

    ReplyDelete
  32. We already know our resident gaffer has no respect for the "experts" in sport or anywhere else. So we should just accept him as is.

    That said, you must have been awful to coach in hockey or any sport you played for that matter.

    ReplyDelete
  33. Crowds are surprisingly good at certain kinds of perception. Here's a fun test. Take a piece of paper and draw a bunch of colored dots, say 52, on a piece of paper. Then show it to a group of people, may e a classroom of kids, for like 3 seconds. Then ask them to estimate the number of dots.

    The average will likely be very close to the right number, regardless of how wrong many people are. Nonetheless, each person will trust mistakenly trust that their perception is more relaible than the average of the group's.

    ReplyDelete
  34. This is relevant to hockey. My guess is if you had fans estimate the chances for and against in a game, the average would be close to accurate.

    ReplyDelete
  35. SB: Because they don't have a degree or anything necessarily reliable. You can get a scout job on the spot, some have got it in MTL without ever doing anything to get it. And failing management teams prove it over and over again.

    If you want to be a Doctor, you study hard and get a diploma, you have proof of your knowledge. In Sports it's only track record.

    Indeed I wasn't the most docile beast, but no one could question my effort, ever.

    Kris: Indeed. But I don't think it's a matter where you can grow expertise, or reliable. I don't think it's the same as a subject in general.

    ReplyDelete
  36. LT,

    The only draft story I can leave you with is one featuring 1982 1st rounder and new Coyotes Associate Coach, Jim Playfair. Jimmy followed two other Fort St. James boys (Larry Playfair & Brian Spencer) into the NHL draft.

    Big news in the old Fort and of course, it made the front page of the Caledonia Courier, complete with Jim's Portland picture. Someone in the Playfair family went out and bought 50 copies of the Courier, which must have been a record in the Fort. The intention was to give them to family members with Jimmy's autograph. Enter Jimmy's brother, Denis. Denis was 15 and already a second year midget player. Some say he was the best of the three and was about to embark on playing in Fort Saskatchewan the next season.

    Well Mrs. Playfair went to grab the papers for Jimmy to sign, only to find that Denis had drawn moustaches, beards, unibrows, google eyes, and nerd glasses on each and every copy. Suffice to say the Playfair's were asking various families for their papers.

    Sadly though, less than three weeks after such a momentous occasion, Denis was killed by an impaired driver bringing an end to such a promising life. He was such a nice guy to. Sweet kid.

    ReplyDelete
  37. I think WG's point was that a crowd of expert scouts is more relaible than one (Prendergast) or a few (the Oil) scouts. Certainly, the average diagnosis of 100 doctor's is more reliable than one doctor's.

    That's my last post.

    go RNH!

    ReplyDelete
  38. Regardless of which kid is your guy.

    On Friday, when the Oilers likely call RNH's name. Just think of how amazing RNH-Hall-Eberle will be to watch.

    In a few years these kids will bring you out of your seat. At the end of the day that's why we like watching. Right?

    ReplyDelete
  39. SB: You're right. In the end this is all pointless.

    God damn, got trapped AGAIN.

    ReplyDelete
  40. Only someone arguing sports or politics could argue against the wisdom of crowds and think they have standing.

    And this whole reference means that MacGregor is ... Spongebob, the kid doing all of the work at the Krusty Krab.

    ReplyDelete
  41. CC: Very sad story. I remember Spinner Spencer's Dad met a sad end too over a HNIC broadcast maybe 1971 or so.

    Bad times.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Fun stuff, LT. Thanks.

    I think most people use the "Ask the Audience" lifeline earlier in the show because the questions are easier in the beginning. From what I recall, leaving the audience to the tough questions usually made the results come out close to 50-50 and didn't really help the contestant.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Well I happen to know that MBS lives in a pineapple under the sea...just saying.

    Who's Squidward?

    ReplyDelete
  44. Who's Squidward?

    Cranky, whiny, man of supposed culture who doesn't think he belongs with the commoners?

    Laforge.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Kris your right, except in millionaire you dont have an audience full of doctors for a doctor question.

    I have to disagree with you Woodguy, you obviously dont watch much millionaire. If you dont use that ask an audience lifeline early, it will fuck with you. If you use it for the harder questions, you'll get something like A) 32% B) 33% C) 26% D) 9%. Where the answer could be on of either A,B or C. And ive seen it many many times on that show.

    ReplyDelete
  46. To add to that, if people dont know, which many of them dont for the harder questions, you'll get split percentages across the board.

    ReplyDelete
  47. *In imitation voice that probably no one will get*

    "I'm squidward...He's squidward..We're both Squidward."

    ReplyDelete
  48. Yeah LT, Roy Spencer will killed by the RCMP outside the CKPG studio after driving 100 miles and holding the station hostage demanding that the CBC show his son's game. They just tore that building down here and it's one block from where I work. Spinner Spencer met a tragic end to.

    Some of the locals say that Roy Spencer really wanted to die because he was diagnosed with cancer weeks before and his actions were not of a madman, but a man wanting to die.

    ReplyDelete
  49. James Surowiecki wrote a book called "The Wisdom of the Crowds", detailing that "large groups of people are smarter than an elite few, no matter how brilliant—better at solving problems, fostering innovation, coming to wise decisions, even predicting the future."

    The majority of HF thinks Horcoff is garbage.

    Not that a large group knows more than the elite few, no matter how brilliant.

    Oops.

    ReplyDelete
  50. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  51. FPB: Hell no. Squidward's a main character and I don't want Lowe in any sort of power over MBS squarepants. Kevin Lowe can be Garry, the pet snail who sits in the corner and meows.

    My favourite draft moment has absolutely nothing to do with the Oilers (go figure). Anyone else remember the 2006 draft, Bobby Clarke strolling up the podium to make the 22nd selection:

    "With the 22nd pick in the 2006 Entry Draft the Philadelphia Flyers are proud so select..."

    *looks around*

    -Quietly- "what's the kid's name??"

    "Oh. Claude Giroux!"

    Fucking Brilliant. Too bad it turned out to be a home-run for them.

    If anyone's interested in wasting yet more time on this year's draft, I've got a first round mockdraft up on Bubbling Under. For those too lazy to read my massive offering I've got RNH first overall and Jonas Brodin at 19.

    ReplyDelete
  52. The NHL Awards show is saved by the sight of Getzlaf messing around with Ryan sans helmet. Fanatstic to finally have another bald superstar to fill the void left when Messier retired.

    Note: It would probably be even more fun if Getzlaf tried to pull a Bobby Hull and take himself out of this group by pulling a Shatner.

    ReplyDelete
  53. I was tempted to post a response to Traktor, but the I realized how wrong that would be.

    But seriously, "The Wisdom of Crowds" discusses why examples like Traktor's are different from examples like WG's. Great book. And the wikpediai page has some nice info, too.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Long ago I played Trivial pursuit against a school friend and his Harvard roommate. My school friend David later graduated summa cum laude from Harvard in World Literature, directed several student theater productions as an undergraduate, and could quote pages of John Donne from memory.

    His friend Julian was enrolled in an art history program IIRC (he could practice on the museum quality works hung in the foyer of his New York residence) and also happened to know every baseball statistic and boxing match from 1960 onwards. Total sports buff. What Julian would have said if I had suggested Sabermetrics as the wave of the future: "Who needs it? Redundant."

    I concede it was kind of dumb to let them play together. They pied out on the first turn. OK, next game. This was before basketball had their dream team, so I didn't know better.

    Another time I had an ex-coworker who ended up in psychiatric hospital in Ottawa, so me and another odd friend of mine went to sort things out (taking in along the way a game of the Senators in one of their early seasons when they were still playing in the other half of Winnipeg's rink).

    We flopped into a dumpy Kanata sports bar one evening after a sad day at the hospital and started playing some trivia game neither of us had seen before. We didn't hang out much in bars with TVs. (Hate the damn things. Huge distraction from long boozy discussions on the origins of money from the Casa di Medici forward.)

    I was extremely fast at the buttons, and could eliminate two answers in the blink of any eye, but hardly ever knew the right answer for certain. Another blink of the eye later, Ken would pipe up with the right answer (he was what you would call an ADHD bookworm superstar with photographic recall). Half the time I would already have that answer dialed in by quick guesswork, and we would get full points; the other half of the time I would make a "late" correction on Ken's input (about the same 400ms interval as Rome's late hit) and we would get *nearly* full points.

    One late question Ken drew a complete blank. I looked at him like a complete idiot. "Vanadium, of course, doesn't everyone know that vanadium is a principle alloy in tool steel?" So we had different interests. On our amateur debut, we finished 3rd out of 6000 teams (or so the screen told us). Never played again.

    I also used to hang out with a guy who won the North American undergraduate math competition at age 15. Another David. Later he made so much money as a quant on Wall Street he was far too embarrassed to name a number. Son of two psychiatrists, it's no small number that made his eyes boggle with embarrassment, I'm sure of that. "Zdeno, are you sure you're OK picking up that drink tab?"

    If you're tasked with a question pertaining to obscure trivia about the Riemann Zeta function or terminal velocity in any body position when sky-diving (his "get a life" adopted hobby), he's the man for the job par excellence. For anything else, hope you've kept Vanna White's phone number handy, just in case. David was the complete opposite of my ADHD polymath buddy.

    What I'm saying is, for this audience thing, it matters who your friends are.

    ReplyDelete
  55. For visuals on the pub story, I'm 6'4" 240 lbs. Ken is an inch taller, circa 140 lbs, including the full play-off beard. He has the facial intensity of Abraham Lincoln. I look like one of those soft cherubic Europeans with the heart of a pea. Neither of us were drafted.

    Errol Morris's "First Person" has some priceless segments:
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3131597457385907272

    I really wouldn't trust the audience to help me out on "What capital city is located at the highest elevation above sea level?"

    A. Mexico City
    B. Quito
    C. Bogotá
    D. Kathmandu

    You're extremely vulnerable to herd effect on a question like this. Rick fought back with a quibble of War and Peace proportions, but never won his case.

    http://www.megasociety.net/noesis/150/rosner1.html

    The great thing about being an undergraduate drop-out (yours truly) is that you have a lot more time on your hands to hang with interesting people, or failing that, to refine those fast button skills at the student union arcade.

    Here's a question I couldn't presently answer: "what was the Canadian RRSP pension contribution limit in 2009?" Sure wish I knew. Enough of these impossible questions. How about metallurgy for 500 points?

    ReplyDelete
  56. Since I'll probably never tell this story again, I feel like adding a footnote about my friend David from long ago, the juvenile math prodigy.

    I asked him where he stood in the pecking order in the Wall Street firm that hired him. His response was, more or less, "I'm one of the dimmer bulbs in the room, the really smart guys run rings around me. Basically, the firm *only* hires math competition geniuses, and I'm far from the best."

    The funny thing about David, for all his social apprehensions, he was rarely wrong about people. If he said another guy was smarter, he probably was. I also asked him, "does this room full of geniuses return any value through your collective work to the economy you pillage?" His answer was, "it's not clear how any of this returns value to anyone, but it sure makes us a lot of money". He didn't have the faintest inkling of how their abstruse maneuverings rippled out into the larger economy, only that giant wads of money washed ashore on the return path.

    That opened my eyes big time to the true nature of the invisible hand.

    So, if the quiz master asks you "how do quantitative trading firms return value to society through the work they perform" I'd have to say you're royally screwed no matter who you call.

    Did I know where any of these people would wind up as I knew them at age 19? Not really. Sifting the precocious is the devil's work.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Does anybody here play qrank? Their "ask the audience" option is surprisingly unreliable.

    Hoonog...Oilers 7th rounder on Saturday...

    ReplyDelete
  58. To drag this discussion back to hockey, is anyone else troubled by the assumptions/speculation coming out of TSN, Matheson etc. that because the Oil will take RNH first, they're certain to take a defenceman at 19? It strikes me that we need the BPA regardless of position and deliberately seeking out a defenceman is a good way to wind up with another Plante.

    ReplyDelete
  59. Cactus: While I agree the Oilers should keep an open mind, I'd bet money they will trade up to get Siemens if they can.

    Call if the ghost of McIlrath but imo the Oilers want that player type.

    ReplyDelete
  60. LT: I completely agree that it's looking like they'll chase after Siemens, even if it means giving up something more for him. I'm just not sold on Siemens at that spot - if his offence doesn't translate at all, then we possibly get a stay-at-home guy who could be drafted at 31 or found in free agency. Moreover, isn't that what Teubert may become (though perhaps a little less accomplished)?

    With Pitlick currently playing the wing, the Oilers are looking weak at C, even after drafting RNH. A guy like McNeil at 19 might have the potential to develop into a 2nd line guy to one day replace Horcoff.

    ReplyDelete
  61. Some good points have been made. I would agree, that Duncan Siemens is pretty much going to be the left-handed shooting version of Colten Teubert - Even though we haven't even seen either play an NHL game yet.

    Next, My call has always been Hopkins at #1 and I REALLY like Joseph Morrow @ # 19 (IF he is available). I would much rather have him than Siemens. HOWEVER, having said that, I think there is a lot of room to grow for Mr. Siemens. He could end up being some version of Dion Phaneuf. That, I think would be the more fair comparison.

    Those who say "take the best player available" @ #19 & 31 also have an argument. The thing is, in this draft, there are so many good players, and we have so many needs, that I don't think it matters. As long as the player we take is the best player at that position at that selection - which would allow you to draft based on need.

    Can't wait till tomorrow! Should be very exciting!!!

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  62. Cactus: Well he certainly isn't good value at that number, there will be a lot of offensive players who could be difference makers.

    But my bet is (and probably that's what those guys are doing) that the Oil goes blue with that second first rounder.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Quito?

    And I'd like to say I’m a big fan of the Argument Sketch. Damn Barnard always horning in.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Kris,

    You nailed what my point was, thanks.

    Cactus,

    I like McNeil a lot at 19 too.

    I'm not sure he's there at 19.

    I really don't see why you would ever take a Dman in the first round as long as reasonable forwards are available. Future value is everything.

    Trak,

    The majority of HF thinks Horcoff is garbage.

    Not that a large group knows more than the elite few, no matter how brilliant.

    Oops.


    Ha ha!

    There is a caveat in the book that the large sample shouldn't be room full of poo flinging monkeys, so I'm not sure HF posters qualify.

    :)

    ReplyDelete
  65. Dallas' pick at 14 is available to teams wanting to trade up. They are looking for a third round pick.

    http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/story/?id=369767

    That would almost guarantee that they get one of Brodin, Klefbom, Siemens, Beaulieu, Scheifele or McNeill.

    ReplyDelete

  66. And I'd like to say I’m a big fan of the Argument Sketch


    No you're not.

    ReplyDelete
  67. I don't quite understand or agree with all of the anxiety about Duncan Siemens' offensive production. He will be one of the yongest players in the draft this year and he produced fairly decent offence (5-38-43). For comparison's sake, he is a mere 20 days older than the vaunted Ryan Murray, and they produced near identical offensive numbers this past season.

    I don't necessarily agree with drafting a dman in the first round because of the development timeline, but I don't think Siemens should be avoided because of his offensive production.

    ReplyDelete
  68. The comparisons of Siemens to Teubert also aren't fair. Teubert never posted more than 40 pts in a single WHL season, and Siemens has already done it as a young 17y/o. Granted, Siemens played on one of the best teams in the country, but Teubert at 20y/o still only posted 40pts.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Gotta love Craig Buttons column..."After the much hyped Taylor vs. Tyler debate heading into the 2010 Draft, Tyler Seguin has passed Taylor Hall according to Button."

    Shall we start the Larrson vs. Hopkins debate.

    Yes the Oilers need a center, that's because they didn't take the center last year. Now they need a defenseman.

    Number one centers and defensemen don't always come around when you need them or when you have the first choice. The Oilers have had a perfect situation the last two years. This year its a defensemen.

    Please don't screw up again this year too!

    ReplyDelete
  70. I predict that there will be very little trading up and down just because the masses think it is a good idea for their team.
    When we are all just killing time till the draft it is too easy (and fun)to speculate.
    Boy I hope somet5hing happens!

    ReplyDelete
  71. @ coaching from:

    Are you saying the Oilers took the wrong player last year?
    Seguin was a healthy scratch off and on thru out the playoffs.One could argue a healthy Taylor Hall could have been the best left winger on the Bruins.
    Imo they made the right choice.Craig Button isn't a TSN analyst by choice.He is a career hockey guy that can't get a job.

    ReplyDelete
  72. Craig Button: Now in TSN's long list of panel fools, with Mike Milbury and Pierre Macguire.

    Call it the ''I don't know why I don't have a job anymore'' panel.

    ReplyDelete
  73. "So, if the quiz master asks you "how do quantitative trading firms return value to society through the work they perform" I'd have to say you're royally screwed no matter who you call."

    Haha. Awesome summary.

    ReplyDelete
  74. From the Jones article...

    With the expectation that this draft will be all about making the Oilers strong down the middle with centre Ryan Nugent-Hopkins No. 1 and likely large defencemen with the 19th and 31st picks, it ought to be remembered that goaltending is “down the middle,” too.

    That sounds like a pretty stupid plan that I really hope is a lot more Jones speculation than reality.

    ReplyDelete
  75. Just draft BPA.

    It's stupid really. If you draft BPA there's odds he will get more in a trade than what you planned on drafting for ''need''

    ReplyDelete
  76. That sounds like a pretty stupid plan that I really hope is a lot more Jones speculation than reality.

    They have taken tenders the last two years - both in the 5th.

    Both have given good value at that spot. So why would they deviate from that success?

    I would not think they would use anything higher than the Staios 3rd for a goalie.

    I don't quite understand or agree with all of the anxiety about Duncan Siemens' offensive production. He will be one of the yongest players in the draft this year and he produced fairly decent offence (5-38-43). For comparison's sake, he is a mere 20 days older than the vaunted Ryan Murray, and they produced near identical offensive numbers this past season.

    Very good points. Thanks for that.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Duncan Siemens reminds me of Colten Tuebert.
    I would rather have Mark MCniell or Matt Puempel

    ReplyDelete
  78. "how do quantitative trading firms return value to society through the work they perform"

    The official answer is providing liquidity to the markets. The correct answer is none.

    ReplyDelete
  79. SumoiL: Teubert potted 23 points in his draft year... Siemens had 23 points when he was 16.

    ReplyDelete
  80. As we get closer to D-Day it seems that the Oilers covet both Larsson and RNH. I think that is consistent with all the hubbub about being willing to move a few spots down from #1 for the right deal.

    It seems unlikely that they'll be able to obtain both however, since the word from Dreger and others is that there probably won't be any movement in the top 5.

    I wonder though, if it would be possible to move into a position to draft Hamilton. There are a lot of reasons to believe he could be just as good as Larsson, yet is not as highly coveted. He has so many things going for him, but at the same time seems likely to fall out of the top 5. On that basis he seems like a player who may be good value for his draft position (6-9 overall).

    If it is at all possible to get him and RNH I think Tambellini has to go for it. Realistically I think he's a Ryan Whitney-type player, but even if he ends up as Jay Bouwmeester I think we get good value if we do something like Gagner+19th to get him.

    ReplyDelete
  81. "They have taken tenders the last two years - both in the 5th.

    Both have given good value at that spot. So why would they deviate from that success?"

    Referring moreso to the "will likely take big defenseman at 19 and 31."

    ReplyDelete
  82. If they do take defensemen here's what I hope they do.

    Talk to Dallas, ship them 31st+ 2 3rd rounders/player.

    Get Oleksiak at 14 and Siemens at 19.

    Oleksiak's a monster, but he also provides offense. His Junior numbers would be roughly 40 points. He's bigger and better than Mcilrath, who potted 20 points and was drafted 11. Jump on it.

    ReplyDelete
  83. Lebrun tweets that LA has talked to Calgary about Ryan Smyth. Talk about a PR war over this trade. Ryan Smyth in a Flames jersey ranks right up there with Scarlett Johannson with any man other than me in my list of ideas I absolutely can not stand in life.

    ReplyDelete
  84. There's a chance Oleksiak won't be available at 14 either. He might not even make it out of the Top 10 (although I think he does).

    I doubt Calgary takes him because he has some risk that they can't really afford, but certainly BOS, MIN, COL, CAR might.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Showerhead...

    I expect the Flames are irrelevant unless Smyth is really insisting on getting out of LA... Smyth has already spurned the Falmes once before, and he has a NMC. Nice attempt by Lombardi though.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Smyth wanting to return to Edmonton absolutely precludes any other possible transaction/hypothetical move anywhere else.

    It's the Kings who are in the hot seat, not the Oilers. The worst case scenario is Smyth returns in 2012 as a UFA.

    ReplyDelete
  87. spOILer and Hunter,

    Rationally, I agree with both of you. It is also completely reasonable for Scarlett not to spend all of her nights in a hot tub with yours truly.

    This doesn't stop me from hating the idea.

    ReplyDelete
  88. This talk about "big defencemen" at 19 and 31 seems credible but raises an interesting question. If Tambellini really wants to get a couple good defensive prospects at those picks, but Stu tells him there's a real value at forward, what happens? Sadly, one of those things that we may never know.

    As for Smyth going to Calgary, I wouldn't worry about it. Calgary's in about as dire a cap situation as Philly. If the cap does go up to $64M, they'd just be able to fit his salary and he'd have to play defence (cause they need a couple of those). This strikes me as gamesmanship - Lombardi really wants to make a deal with Edmonton before July 1 and preferably before the draft.

    ReplyDelete
  89. Spoiler: That's why I ranked Oleksiak so high.

    His scoring is unusually high for a giant defenseman like him.

    If you look at last year, at the 21 spot Detroit took Riley Sheahan, a forward out of Notre Dame. Oleksiak has similar scoring to him, but he's a giant and a defender.

    Upside + Performance is so rare.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Dreger tweets that Regehr has been asked to waive NMC to go to Buffalo. I'm not sure what Regehr will do but you'd have to think Ales Hemsky has a wry grin right now.

    ReplyDelete
  91. Sounds like Calgary has traded Regier. Smyth going there is definitely a possibility. His family wants to get out of LA and back to Alberta....Calgary qualifies.

    ReplyDelete
  92. They are looking to sign Tanguay before they worry about Smyth.

    ReplyDelete
  93. That's a tough one for Reghr with that news making the scene.

    I imagine he's already said no once and that's why it's leaked.

    You know maybe young Erixon would have signed there if they could have cleared away The Sheepherder just a little bit earlier;)

    ReplyDelete
  94. I can't see Smyth going to the Flames. Smyth himself knows he will be loathed as a Flame, and in his small mind will reason that it will almost certainly put an end to his joining the Oilers, ever.

    Won't happen. Sorry to piss on that parade...

    ReplyDelete
  95. To Hockeyguy: Hope you are right... Smyth in Calgary would depress me.

    ReplyDelete
  96. Calgary have less than $5M in cap space and need to sign 5-6 more players. Smyth has a $6.25M cap hit. Even if they trade Regher for picks they would only have $10M or so in cap space, so every player other than Smyth that they add would have to earn less than $1M. I don't see how this could possibly work.

    Smells like another attempt to scare Tambellini into making a better offer for him.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Bob says "Hearing CBJ gives Voracek, 1st round pick and 3rd round pick for Carter."

    Steep, but fair, yes?

    ReplyDelete
  98. Voracek, 1st round pick and 3rd round pick for Carter.

    ReplyDelete
  99. To everyone who called me an idiot for saying Carter was available.

    Na na nana na na.

    ReplyDelete
  100. So what would it have taken to trump that? Gagner, the 19th and the 31st?

    ReplyDelete

  101. Steep, but fair, yes?


    Agreed.

    HoLOLmgren knew Howson needed to do it and did well.

    ReplyDelete
  102. Columbus may finally have a truly dominant #1 line. Nash must be pumped.

    ReplyDelete
  103. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  104. 19th + 31st aren't worth the 8th, especially in this draft. Not sure how you value Voracek but if you make Gagner/Voracek a wash I think the Columbus offer is superior by a fair amount.

    ReplyDelete
  105. Columbus instant contender.

    Carter
    Umberger
    Vermette

    ReplyDelete
  106. Regehr out of Calgary = awesome.

    8th pick out of play for Tambo = awesome.

    Short and sweet and damn well perfect.

    Great trade for both sides on CBJ/Philly. Philly had to deal Carter but got great value for him. 3.0 should take notes. Voracek still has a ton of potential (and is coming off a 46 pt season) and the 8th is a damn nice piece too.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Duncan Siemens reminds me of Colten Tuebert.

    Let me put your fears to rest. It's not a valid comparison in any way except that they both play defense and are tough kids.

    ReplyDelete
  108. any wingers there tractor?

    Philly has finally changed the way they do business, eh? Interesting times.

    Will the president of the chamber of commerce for western canada - bryz - fall apart under the philly pressure? or will be feel like he's playing in a rocking chair?

    some angles"

    - philly deals from strength

    - philly pays for not being able to find good netminding on the cheap

    - CBJ desperate and makes the last stand.

    Young Vorachek looks stuck in neutral and what do you really get out of a 3rd rounder? You Can find something but what are the odds? Not good I'd imagine.

    so a real pivot still young with a good per term contract for a stunted prospects and the 8th overall.

    ReplyDelete
  109. Ales Hemsky might end up being a very happy man today if Regehr agrees to waive.

    ReplyDelete
  110. you wonder did edm even sniff around for carter or is the new goal to make the playoffs 2015>

    ReplyDelete
  111. Dennis:

    The only thing that matters is what's down the middle.

    Good centers turns 6's and 7's into 10's and jacks and gives the coaches millions of options.

    Rick Nash is pretty good too.

    Columbus is a top 6 team next year without a doubt - even with one of the worst defenses in the league.

    ReplyDelete
  112. If Smyth ends up playing for the Flames I don't think I will ever forgive Tambellini.

    ReplyDelete
  113. Dennis:

    It could be argued in terms of assets that Philly traded a 1st line center for a #1 goalie and received 8th overall and JV for free

    ReplyDelete
  114. "If Smyth ends up playing for the Flames I don't think I will ever forgive Tambellini."

    Just goes to show how blinded Oiler fans are.

    ReplyDelete
  115. Traktor: In the "that's exactly how Lombardi wants Edmonton's fanbase to feel" sort of way, sure. Given the context though, missing out on Smyth for cheap for this current roster would be a pretty big hit for Tambellini's reputation.

    ReplyDelete
  116. Columbus is a top 6 team next year without a doubt - even with one of the worst defenses in the league.


    Wager?

    ReplyDelete
  117. Players who have never won a Stanley Cup asking to be traded away from a young contending team are in retirement mode.

    ReplyDelete
  118. Traktor said...
    "If Smyth ends up playing for the Flames I don't think I will ever forgive Tambellini."

    Just goes to show how blinded Oiler fans are.


    Just as drive by's show how lacking trolls are.

    ReplyDelete
  119. If the reghr move gives them the room to bring in smyth, I'll be sad to see him in those colours, but happy for the man that he can be with his family.

    If the Price of getting rid of Regher is the flames getting smyth, I'm all for it.

    ReplyDelete
  120. WTF: Gord Miller and Bob McKenzie say "PHI talking with LAK about a deal that would send Mike Richards to Kings. Not done yet, but could happen."

    I get the panic to get a good goaltender, but this is just confusing. What would PHI reasonably take back?

    ReplyDelete
  121. spOILer:

    So. If Smyth willingly goes to the Flames, this is somehow Tambellini's fault?

    Kind of like how the woman who deserts her children, years later decides to blame them for the breakdown in her marriage?

    ReplyDelete
  122. Woodguy: I can only speak for myself (and didn't call you an idiot!) but I honestly didn't think Carter would go. My position was always that given the cap going up, Philly didn't NEED to move Carter - they could still sign Bryzgalov simply by moving a goalie to the minors and trading Versteeg and possibly Carle (depending on how much space they wanted to fill out their roster). This is a good return for Philly, but if I'm Holmgren I still don't know if I'd think of trading a great scoring centre that's responsible in his own end (and on a good contract). Those guys are hard to come by.

    As for the inevitable cries about whether Edmonton should have gone for it, the only way we beat Columbus' package would be to throw in someone like Paajarvi or Eberle, plus our 1st rounder this year. That would've been too much.

    ReplyDelete
  123. Showerhead: Given they just traded Carter away I don't think it makes sense.

    WG: Congratz on your prediction. Spot on to you sir.

    ReplyDelete
  124. Carter very well might save Howson's job. He is definitely a big addition over Voracek and the #8 is a long ways away from contributing. Columbus could have used a Lidstrom retirement but they should have a good shot at the playoffs in the tough conference.

    Kudos to Howson for making this deal at a time when picks are overvalued. And goal continues to muck up Philly's chances at a cup.

    ReplyDelete
  125. "Given the context though, missing out on Smyth for cheap for this current roster would be a pretty big hit for Tambellini's reputation."

    I doubt Tambellini is concerned how he is viewed by message board commentators.

    On the flip side, Craig MacTavish was golden around these parts and can't find a job.

    ReplyDelete
  126. Hunter,

    If he was offered to Tambellini forst for the rumoured Calgary 3rd, yes, that's absolutely on Tambellini.

    ReplyDelete
  127. First... the "i" key is apparently right next to the "o" button.

    ReplyDelete
  128. This is the kind of deal where I think betting the 2012 pick made sense. If we offered Gagner + 2012 1st rounder + 31st I'd be happy with that as an offer. Carter is a big piece and a safer bet than the hypothetical #1 next year. And you cement your center position with RNH and Carter going forward.

    ReplyDelete
  129. Thaty Carter trade must put a little pressure on Nashville too.

    ReplyDelete
  130. Richards for Schenn and Simmonds was a text I just heard from a rumour monger.

    that would be what you could call a makeover.

    ReplyDelete
  131. @ Traktor

    You are cool bro. Above everything and everyone.

    @ SB

    Maybe you are right. But his scouting report is almost identical to Tuebert as well.

    @ WG

    You and I are in the same boat. Poeple kept telling me how Carter is not available and Flyers would trade rest of the world before trading carter.

    I think it was a bad trade from howson's perspective. 8th overall is a pretty good asset and he should have tried and protected Voracek and tried to deal Brassard. Lets also not forget that Holmgren really wanted to sign Bryzgalov as well. So both sides were desperate and 1 came out on top.
    While CBJ do become very strong, I think they paid a little too much

    ReplyDelete
  132. @ Dennis

    now that Carter is gone, why trade Richards too?

    ReplyDelete
  133. sumoil:

    I'm not the coolest but definitely above grilling "3.0" for sentimental reasons.

    ReplyDelete
  134. Gog: yes, I would do 89 plus 2012 first and something else.

    one of these days someone's gotta worry about birds in the actual hand.

    whens the next time a carter's gonna be on the market?

    ReplyDelete
  135. I want some of what the Flyers GM is smoking wtf is he doing trading all their star players for? Is he going to try and sign the other Richards???

    ReplyDelete
  136. What the hell is going on in Philly? Why would you ever move Richards after dealing Carter?

    This is crazier than Bobby Clarke as GM - doesn't make sense at all.

    ReplyDelete
  137. Richards gone too.

    As per Spector HoLOLomgren is clearing cap space for Brad Richards.

    NYR, PHI, and TOR in a bidding war for Richards.

    Next time someone says "Why would NHL GM "X" do that?", you just have to point to HoLOLomgren.

    Unless B. Richards has informally agreed to sign in PHI, they are insane.

    ReplyDelete
  138. Spector says trade for Smyth (to Edmonton) WILL happen.

    http://twitter.com/#!/sportsnetspec

    ReplyDelete
  139. Holmgren just stole draft day.

    Unless RNH borrows Lady Gaga's egg then all anyone's gonna be talking about tomorrow night is the Flyers makeover.

    ReplyDelete
  140. This is crazier than Bobby Clarke as GM - doesn't make sense at all.

    Clarke is still President.

    Same as Kevin Lowe.

    ReplyDelete
  141. Geez, I almost want Smyth to stay in LA for his shot at a deep playoff run now. (No seriously, trade for him Edmonton)

    ReplyDelete
  142. WTF JUST HAPPENED?
    RICHARDS GONE TOO!!!
    HAS HOLMGREN LOST HIS MIND?
    I AM LOSING MINE

    ReplyDelete
  143. Wait, perhaps Spector is saying the deal between Phi and LA WILL happen and is just speculating on Smyth...

    ReplyDelete
  144. Sumoil, showerhead

    They trade two potentially untradeable contracts a few years before they become untradeable, and in Richards case, a year before his NMC kicks in.

    They turn two of their three top line centers (man I hate Philly) into Schenn, who projects to be top line center, and my guess would be Zinbanejad or Strome, who project to be top six centers, plus two top nine wingers in Voracek and Simmonds. They also get enough cap space to sign a toptier goalie for the first time since Hextall and keep Leino, Versteeg, Carle et al.

    It takes huge stones to make these deals but I have no doubt that Philly will be a better team over the next decade than they would if they keep Carter and Richards.

    ReplyDelete
  145. Supposedly Mike Richards didn't get along with Pronger and Laviolette.

    Clarke and Holmgren didn't like the fact that he lived downtown, and not in the suburbs, and partied.

    ReplyDelete
  146. Marc:

    If they kept the same team together and added goaltending, they'd win at least one Cup before Richards/Carter were on the downswing of their careers. These guys are just 26!

    If there was tension or hatred or whatever, so be it. But none of your argument convinces me that this was a good hockey deal.

    ReplyDelete
  147. @ Marc

    They might be a better team AFTER the decade and not for the decade.
    Brad Richards deal is going to be painful as any deal for him will be a potential overpay with him being over 3o now.

    He made the deals 8-10 years earlier than he should have. That overhaul doesnt make any sense. I dont see the need for it.

    To be frank I dont see the need to make room for bryzgalov either whereas Vokoun could be had for less and is probably a superior keeper

    ReplyDelete
  148. Well, Smyth almost certainly has to leave LA now. Capgeek's updated following the Richards trade and they have 10 forwards, 5 defencemen and 2 goalies under contract for $53M leaving about $10M in cap space. However, Doughty is about to burn through somewhere between $5-6M of this, perhaps leaving less than $4M. They could just make it under the cap if they went budget with the rest of their signings, but it would leave them little flexibility. I think they may still go hunting for Gagne.

    ReplyDelete
  149. @ godot

    thats a terrible reason to trade.
    He was one of the best ES outscorers in the league. On par with Bergeron if not better.

    he is friking 26 if he is not partying now when will he?

    If that is the reason then strip him of the captaincy. Trading him was insane and I am sure even EKlund did not think about it

    ReplyDelete
  150. On the flip side, Craig MacTavish was golden around these parts and can't find a job.

    He's sat out for two years with cancer and then interviewed twice. Might want to wait on that judgment.

    ReplyDelete
  151. The Philly fans in the office wanted Richards and Versteeg traded, Carter kept and Vokoun signed. They appear to be a tad unhappy right not, although Brad Richard might change that.

    ReplyDelete
  152. From an outsider perspective I like both Philly deals. Briere can be shifted back to C, Giroux has grown enough to make Carter expendable.

    Briere
    Giroux
    Schenn

    Great top-3 C lineup.

    I'll admit it leaves it a bit thin on the wings with only JVR and Voracek of note unless they use this cap space to re-up Leino, but hot damn. Great moves.

    ReplyDelete
  153. Well the Philly GM's has some big balls.

    It's All-In.

    He pretty much went around what most people would have done.

    He better hope Voracek and Schenn get good soon, because Pronger and Timmonen aren't immortal.

    ReplyDelete
  154. Noticed this one on Spector's twitter feed as well:

    Among 15-18 draftees being interviewed by Toronto Maple Leafs are ex-Oiler sons Keegan Lowe and Dylan Simpson.

    The ultimate revenge for Burke?

    ReplyDelete
  155. DG

    Versteeg, and they could bring Gagne back... And Simmonds will help if he's included in the deal.

    ReplyDelete
  156. @ Dorito

    Briere is better off as a Winger. I kinda agree with the speculation that this was done in order to get B Richards who is now in the ending years of his prime.
    i agree that Giroux had kinda made Carter expendable, but noone on that roster or the FA makes Richards expendable. Remember Philly wil be 'hoping' that Schenn becomes Richards one day.

    ReplyDelete
  157. Unless RNH borrows Lady Gaga's egg then all anyone's gonna be talking about tomorrow night is the Flyers makeover.

    hahahahhahahahahah

    I fucking demand this happens tomorrow night. Great line.

    ReplyDelete
  158. Why would you want to replace Mike Richards with Brad Richards??? Doesn't seem like a logical value prop or strategic move...

    All this insanity proves is that there are deals out there to be made if you're working the lines and ready to be bold. I think Philly's nuts, but someone's got to take advantage of those who wish to be nuts and that might as well be us.

    ReplyDelete
  159. I have no doubt that Philly will be a better team over the next decade than they would if they keep Carter and Richards.

    Pronger and Timonen are both 36.

    By the time Schenn is able to handle Carter/Richards type minutes they will be 40.

    ReplyDelete
  160. Pronger and Timonen are both 36.

    By the time Schenn is able to handle Carter/Richards type minutes they will be 40.


    Pronger might not win another cup? I'm so sad.

    ReplyDelete
  161. Is it just me or is LA going to be scary good this up coming season?

    ReplyDelete
  162. 9 year $51MM for Bryz is done as per McKenzie.

    Hahahahahahahahahhahaha

    ReplyDelete
  163. Bryzgalov's contract sounds downright reasonable, given the earlier demands. I wonder if there are expensive years and a cheap tail.

    From Bob: Bryzgalov contract with PHI is done. 9 years, $51 million.

    ReplyDelete
  164. I think he was concerned that this might be his only chance to move those contracts.

    There will also be a new CBA between now and the time they expire and who knows how these will be treated. If it contains a term that says any contract of 7+ years in length counts against the cap the same way that one signed when the player is 35+ does now for example, they could be in loads of trouble.

    THey make take a small step back for a year or two but I really don't think they'll be worse off in the medium to long term.

    ReplyDelete
  165. So far, we've seen two teams in the WC make major moves to improve and it appears Calgary is also in the hunt.

    Gills has Hodgson and Schneider on the table so he may reel in some players.

    Will be tough for Tambellini to stand still since he'll actually be going backwards.

    ReplyDelete
  166. Burke and Lowe are both arrogant assholes so it's only natural that they would at some point have a scrap; and just as natural that they once again will be friends.

    There was some mention when Burke's kid died that Lowe reached out to him to express condolences and they ended up burying the hatchet. Say what you will about Lowe, but he's a fundamentally decent person.

    ReplyDelete
  167. TB had a good goalie for peanuts.

    PHI just killed their team and then gave a contract to a guy until he will be 39.

    Hahahahha. Philly's downfall is imminent.

    ReplyDelete
  168. They're was stories about how tough guys in the NHL would scrap and take a beer together after the game.

    Business's Business.

    ReplyDelete
  169. Mr.Smitty said...

    "Is it just me or is LA going to be scary good this up coming season?"

    It's not just you.

    And they have Loktionov, Toffoli, Weal, Kozun, Forbort, Voynov and Muzzin waiting for their turn.

    Stacked team.

    Gizingra - Japanese cure for erectile dysfunction

    ReplyDelete
  170. You know, if LA keeps all of their current players and adds a couple veteran D at the deadline you have to like the depth of that team. Here's their top 9 (by $):

    Kopitar, Anze
    Smyth, Ryan
    Richards, Mike
    Penner, Dustin
    Williams, Justin
    Handzus, Michal
    Stoll, Jarret
    Ponikarovsky, Alexei
    Brown, Dustin

    ReplyDelete
  171. Any outside chance now that Jarret Stoll might be available?

    I'm guessing not on a team that's going for it all, but it is worth a check.

    ReplyDelete

  172. "Is it just me or is LA going to be scary good this up coming season?"

    It's not just you.

    And they have Loktionov, Toffoli, Weal, Kozun, Forbort, Voynov and Muzzin waiting for their turn.

    Stacked team.


    When you look at their current roster, LA is going to be dominate for a long time if they don't have a HoLOLmgren style sell off and over pay a goalie.

    LA was out of the playoffs for 6 years and they've built up well.

    Oilers have been out of the playoffs for 5 years and are just starting to build.

    Bleh.

    ReplyDelete
  173. And who grabs goalie Bob? I'm assuming he hasn't been given up on completely.

    ReplyDelete
  174. WG: Well if one wants money they just play the other.

    ReplyDelete
  175. Philly...Man...must be nice. The Bryzgalov contract is pretty dumb but their embarrassment of riches seems to never end. Added some nice pieces today and tomorrow.

    tumblamo - Tambellini's new nickname

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  176. It's the most wonderful time of the year.

    I don't understand why Holmgren is making these particular deals over others. I would suspect however, that his hands have become tied by his predilection to signing players to overly long and bloated contracts. That, combined with his neglect for the goaltending position has come back to haunt him.

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  177. Renard Lavoie of RDS has COL talking to VAN about Schnieder and LAK about Bernier in return for the 11th pick.

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  178. Blogger Woodguy said...

    LA still has a goalie to trade too.

    Stacked in goal too.

    Quick
    Bernier
    Ersberg
    Zatkoff
    Jones (.924 in the AHL)

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  179. Now's definitely the time to strike and grab Bernier...but somehow I doubt we're on that trolley.

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  180. Looks like Pronger won the culture war in PHI.

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  181. WG: Talk about getting a dollar for a dollar.

    11th pick in 06' for 11th pick in 11'

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  182. Holy crap on a stick. So much for a quiet draft. I hate to be headed out in a little bit =O.

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  183. How much do you want to bet Tambellini didn't even pick up his fucking phone today?

    God help me, I'm starting to agree with DSF. Everyone's improving their teams and we're going backwards.

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  184. Yeah, make some trade Tambi, no matter what the price. Feed the internet - we is hungry.

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