I sent an email asking if Jim Gregory thought he was electing Gordie (thus allowing Mark to get enough votes), but no one has hit reply.
Howe overcame two monumental problems to enter the Hall: first, he was never on a Stanley team, and second he never played for the Leafs. It should be considered an enormous accomplishment by Howe.
Mark Howe was a wonderful player over many years. His boxcars are tough to measure because he played forward so well before becoming an elite defenseman. That alone should have caught someone's eye, but the HHOF has an excellent cafeteria and traffic in the area is noisy.
Back to the quiet room, Jim. Well done! Next year, let's get Ron Ellis and Larry Hillman in there. Leafs won a Stanley in 1967 and don't have enough representation in the Hall.
- Member of the 1972 U.S. Olympic team at age 16.
- Outstanding baseball player (a catcher).
- Tremendous golfer.
- Played on Memorial Cup winner 1972-73
- Stafford Smythe Memorial Trophy (Memorial Cup Tournament MVP)(1973)
- WHA Second All-Star Team (1974)
- Lou Kaplan Trophy (WHA Rookie of the Year)(1974)
- WHA First All-Star Team (1979)
- NHL First All-Star Team (1983,1986,1987)
- NHL Plus/Minus Leader (1986) (+85)
- Played in NHL All-Star Game (1981,1983,1986,1988)
- Assisted on Gordie Howe's final NHL goal in Hartford's playoff game at Montreal on April 9, 1980
- Was Norris Trophy runner-up and Masterton Trophy finalist in 1982-83.
- Was Norris Trophy finalist and Hart Trophy finalist in 1985-86.
- Led all NHL defensemen with plus-57 rating in 1986-87.
- Was Norris Trophy finalist in 1986-87.
- At pro level, began playing defense in 1976-77 but did not play defense exclusively until he entered the NHL (I believe he played some LW in 82-83).
- +14 in two playoff seasons and +54 overall for his measured NHL career.
Dreger saying that the Bruins sent an email asking teams if they wanted Kaberle's negotiating rights.
ReplyDeleteApparently no takers.
Why would the Islanders waste a 4th just to get turned down by Ehrhoff - unless Snow is going to offer him one of his patented 20 year deals.
Any agent advising any top end client to sign on the eve of July 1 should be fired. Its such a shallow FA pool that the good players are going to get overpaid.
OT:
ReplyDeleteLT, in the last thread I mentioned there was a rumor Klefbom might be draft by CAL in the CHL Import Draft, that did not turn out to be the case.
CAL drafted Victor Rask 3rd overall, CAR's 2nd rounder from a week ago.
That Dipietro fiasco was reportedly a Wanger. Another reason why management shouldn't normally be hands on in a sports team. Hire good people then let them do their jobs. Charles Wang isn't nearly as visible as he used to be in the Islanders organization, and that's a good thing for them.
ReplyDeleteI rather like most of the moves Snow has made. Then again he'd have a hard time not looking rosy compared to his predecessor.
Speeds, that rumour was barely worth mentioning, better chance of winning the lottery than Klefbom leaving the SEL for any CHL team.
Now...are we going to see Gernat in Oil Kings silks?
Mark Howe- what a superb player. I remember him well, he was the model of a defenseman in the years the Oilers were building themselves into a dynasty. He had a completely classy, well-rounded game and scored a lot of goals while being the cornerstone of a great defence. Could the Oil ever use a leaf off of that tree! It is beyond comprehension that the HHOF took so long to recognize his excellence.
ReplyDeletespeeds:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.leaguestat.com/chl/memcup/en/draft.php?draft_id=107
Do I read that link correctly in saying that Edmonton will pick 18th in the import draft? I'm curious to see if a certain Slovak defenceman gets picked up.
As per the last thread (sorry to hi-jack this one so early) re: defense pairings.
ReplyDeleteThere's plenty of ways to run your defense. I don't think the Oilers should be getting a defenseman with a particular pairing in mind, as these things will change based on injury, streaks, Renney's mood, and game situation. Ultimately, you need balance so Renney has options in any situation. The Oilers have:
PMD: Whitney (top 2 quality), Gilbert (top 4 quality), Petry (young, ideally should have protected minutes) [Awesome... one area where we're set]
Checking D: Teddy Peckman (young, ideally should have protected minutes)
Defensive D: Smid (best used in a depth role, always on the verge of being top 4 material, but not quite there)
Powerplay Specialist: Foster (supposedly)
All this talk of using Smid as trade bait is great, except that we have no one to take his spot. If we're going to package anyone with a forward, it would be Foster to a team who's hoping he has a bounce-back year and needs someone to run their 2nd powerplay unit.
Based on this assessment, our greatest need is a checking D, so that young T-Peck isn't the only one Renney has to use in that situation. This checking D may play with Whitney or Gilbert or Smid or anyone. Renney may choose to put two PMDs on a line and two checkers on a line to have shut-down pair and an offensive pair. Tons of ways to run a defense, just need options. The Oilers, outside of PMDs, have few.
Through 12 picks, Gernat is still standing...
ReplyDeleteVery very good player. Understated if that is possible. Had an absolutely phenomenal year in 85/86. Very good stats, never on ice for goals against.Do not know it but expect the math guys would have loved him.
ReplyDeleteSaw Gordie goy 43 points in Hartford at age 50. What a marvel
Yup, the Oil Kings pick 18th. No inside information, but I certainly wouldn't be shocked if they select Gernat.
ReplyDeleteVery interesting to see Grigorenko go to Quebec, there is a lot of chatter about EDM drafting a D in next year's draft, and that may come to pass, but there are 3 Russian forwards in the CHL next year (assuming Grigorenko comes over) that might be top 5 picks next June, in Yakupov, Galchenyuk, and Grigorenko. Myself, I always lean to the forwards, but the Oilers haven't seemed to be too interested in Russians over the last while, although that could certainly just be a coincidence, based on how their lists have looked
It is beyond comprehension that the HHOF took so long to recognize his excellence.
ReplyDeleteHere's a clue. Last night Bob McCown was interviewing Jim Gregory - oops, I should say, Hockey Hall of Famer Jim Gregory - about Howe's time in the WHA, and you could hear him wrinkling his nose as he said (paraphrasing) "You shouldn't hold that against him, just like a player who might have been in the minors for a couple years before expansion" or words to that effect.
That would be the six years that Howe scored a minimum of 75 points a season and won two Avco Cups. That's what was holding him back.
I'm thrilled Howe finally got in, but I'm just about ready to blow up the Hall of Fame and the NHL Olb Boys Club that runs it. In particular, Jim Gregory can go piss up a rope. He's not worthy.
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ReplyDeleteThe whole HHOF election committee is one big joke and by the sounds of things Bruce, Jim Gregory is the head clown.
ReplyDeleteFirst time in 30 years they didn't elect a builder. Idiots. Someone should introduce them to Clare Drake or Wild Bill Hunter's legacy.
Annoying and pisses me off. 3 former leafs elected ... total joke, totally biased.
Gernat it is
ReplyDeleteIt's official, Martin Gernat to the Oil Kings 18th overall in the CHL import draft =).
ReplyDeleteTo follow up on Speeds update. Oil Kings up next. Gernat still available.
ReplyDeleteOn the pipeline show last night they said that Gernat was a possibility, but the talk earlier was the Oil Kings wanting an import forward.
Will be interesting to see if they influence of the owner brings Gernat to the Oil Kings.
Pat Burns should be in the Hall of Fame, before any of the 4 that were voted in this year. Not saying that these 4 did not deserve it, but Pat Burns should already be there, and it's an absolute crime that he isn't.
ReplyDeleteHappy for the 4 that made it, but doesn't change how stupid this is.
meh, Belfour was a Blackhawk first and foremost, then a Dallas Star and for nearly fifteen years there were few goalies who were his peer
ReplyDeleteSame with Niewendyk, a Flame and Star first and foremost.
The Dick Duff types are ridiculous and you can argue Gilmour but blaming Leaf bias on those first two selections is goofy
The HHOF is what it is, its for the very very good, not the ultimate greats. No use to get worked up about it, like most to do with the NHL its bush.
Just looked up Dick Duff as he was well before my time. What the hell were they thinking?
ReplyDeleteWhat am I missing about this guy?
Looking at his stats, the league's top scorers during those years, his own team's top scorers during those years, first and second all star teams etc. absolutely nothing stands out.
What I'll always remember most about Belfour is that we beat the Stars when they had Moog in '97, then they got Belfour and we never beat them again. He was maddeningly great.
ReplyDeleteBarker clears waivers as per TSNs Bob McKenzie
ReplyDeleteIf they had no one enter the NHL HOF that wasn't great, they'd have to admit that hockey hasn't produced more than maybe two dozen qualifying players.
ReplyDeleteHockey is a game where the top players dominate and the rest hang on for the ride. Want to make the HOF? Try to ensure you play with: Gretzky/Orr/Beliveau/Richard/Bobby Hull/Crosby/Ovechkin/and now, Taylor Hall.
You forgot the third thing against him: extensive WHA service.
ReplyDeleteCAL drafted Victor Rask 3rd overall, CAR's 2nd rounder from a week ago.
And he's reportedly not interested in coming over to play CHL, only AHL/NHL. Sigh.
Tomas Kopecky gets 4 yrs and $12 million from the Panthers. That's a lot of years for a 29 yr old who had a career year of 42 pts last year.
ReplyDeleteHunter has an interesting case of attribution bias. Take any overwhelmingly successful team, then ascribe 100% of that success to the single most dominant player within the group.
ReplyDeleteOf course this model works when you consider the HHOL: Hockey Hall of Legends. At the level of Archimedes, Newton, Einstein you have to give the lion's paw its due. I'm taking from Hunter's stance that this Lowe character must have been a real chump, cause he played with Gretz a whole ton, and his name never makes the cut. He was probably just some lucky grinder all along, who maybe only had one real skill: wearing his bruises better than the Sedins.
Hunter would never credit a group for having the magic something that makes the whole greater than the sum of its parts. Ken Dryden spoke to this factor specifically in his hockey book. I don't know that era very well, so his name didn't stick. Dryden said the guy was so good he could have played any position, but he chose to do the dirty work because that was what a team full of superstars needed the most.
Whatever you do, don't play with this guy, it'll only make you look good for your flashy brilliance. Pavel would have won a cup and made the hall first ballet if only he had this guy on his team, instead of that flambouyant Linden character.
In business, the golden rule is to emulate Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, or Donald Trump. I figure Katz is pretty much done his entrepreneurial ascent. There's just no way he can pull off any of those hair styles.
He could compromise on eyewear, but that has problems, too. Who would he look like wearing Warren's glasses? Kansas City Thief #18.
DeadmanWaking:
ReplyDeleteYour points are extremely interesting, and for that I thank you.
Yes, Kevin Lowe placed on the 1974 St Louis Blues wouldn't be able to pawn himself off to the world as a member of a dynasty - since he wouldn't have been able to influence anything himself of note. Ditto his former sidekick MacT.
It seems certain types through sheer good fortune are able to go through life thanks to sheer luck. Since we're talking about Mark Howe...does anyone think he wouldn't have been better than Kevin Lowe on that dynasty team?
Lowe was a decent player to be sure...just nothing to write home about. Ditto MacT. However, if we're talking about driving forces behind great events, in terms of the NHL... I nominate none other than Slats - who fashioned a dynasty out of a bunch of kids in a way that's never been seen before, and may never happen again. The man was a virtual genius in his time, and of course, his shenanigans post 1991 tarnish this reality.
I have to add for an undrafted prospect who emerged from a Swiss beer league to win the Calder, Hart, and Conn Smythe in his first season, Einstein was the ultimate walk-on.
ReplyDeleteYou think Howe had it bad?
"During the selection process in 1921, the Nobel Committee for Physics decided that none of the year’s nominations met the criteria as outlined in the will of Alfred Nobel."
So they awarded Einstein in 1922.
How's that for a power-that-be two-finger salute? Apparently Nobel's will included a scathing footnote about WHA scabs taking credit for real physics.
DeadmanWaking:
ReplyDeleteI'm an Einstein guy, always have been, and always will be.
Having studied particle physics at college(woah what a cool thing to do for a living), I'll never forget the revivalist tent-smell the weekend we studied quantum mechanics.
Todd Marchant is retiring. Too bad, we could use someone who plays exactly like he did in his day.
ReplyDeleteI still can't believe Marchant actually managed to score that goal in '97. He seems to have missed every other breakaway in his career. Few players have ever frustrated me more.
ReplyDeleteIt's true, he created a lot more chances than he converted on, but that MGM line was absolutely dynamite for a bunch of kids against tough opposition. Without them, Weight/Guerin/Smyth/etc would not have been able to carry the team.
ReplyDeleteJames Wisniewski's rights traded to CBJ for a conditional pick, 5th if signed otherwise a 7th.
ReplyDeleteYou'd have to think CBJ makes the playoffs if they sign him, however, it seems Wisniewski wants a big raise. Not sure the Oilers could even attract him, much less if it'd be a good idea to give him the dollars and term he's apparently looking for.
Howson's in full on save my freaking job mode.
distante: the Oilers proximity to playing games that matter
Hunter said:
ReplyDeleteIt seems certain types through sheer good fortune are able to go through life thanks to sheer luck.
That would apply to Sather.As luck would have it he was blessed with an endless supply of Hall of Famers.He has done nothing since.
I'm sure even Millbury would have managed to win the Cup with that bunch.
A final comment.
ReplyDeleteThere's a meme out there that Paul Coffee never got enough credit for Gretzky lapping the field.
There's more than one way to conduct a give-and-go. I've long had this feeling that when Coffee gathered up the puck in the D zone, any X and O diagram drawn up by the opposing coach before the game went right out the window. As a player defending Coffee's rush, you went into survival mode.
Gretzky feasted like an Alien vampire on any player on the ice with that deer-in-the-headlights hockey smell.
After he left Edmonton, there were games where Gretzky looked like a knight on the chessboard that swooped down onto one of the corner squares to capture an opposing rook, but then got boxed in by a well-prepared defensive strategy and never made it back to the center of the board again.
When Coffee was around drawing pieces to the opposite side of the chess board, whether they liked it or not, that hardly ever happened.
The hockey coach Rosetta stone, circa 1980-1990:
O hook, hold, pick, obstruct
X hack, slash, cross-check
Which reminds me, Derian Hatcher was one of the first hockey players to sign up for Twitter. His usual Tweet is "XXX" or sometimes when he is feeling soft and loquacious "XOX, with love, Derian". His gig was making people feel like a calf in a slaughter house. Speaking of unsung heroes, god bless Mike Grier.
hockeyguy10:
ReplyDeleteI disagree: Slats started with that crazy kid named Wayne, but at the time many thought the young Oilers weren't more than today's Canucks - a bunch of asshole players doomed to fail in the face of the "real" NHL type players.
5 cups in 7 seasons I'll place next to anyone's hockey legacy.
so...hockeyguy10 - "you're fired".
Rollie re-ups in Tampa for 1-year 3M. Good on him - glad to see a GM recognize he's a valuable contributor even at 41.
ReplyDeleteQuestion for the masses:
How much did Roloson's ability to steal games after we traded fro him impact the Organizations decision to put off rebuilding? Arguably the major change between MacT leaving and Quinn/Renney comming on board was the change of Tender in the crease. Coincidence? Or probable cause?
DeadmanWaking:
ReplyDeleteInteresting your commentary on Coffey. As a little kid, he was hands down my fave Oiler. Anyone who saw Coffey as an Oiler was treated to the fastest skater in NHL history, I mean this dude buzzed around like an angry hornet.
Having Taylor Hall aboard the SS Oilers today gives me real reason to hope for another cup win or even more. Hall has every attribute any old tyme Oiler not named Wayne had...and should eventually bring home the bacon.
Tyler Seguin on the other hand...lol I have to change my opinion - he's going to be a bona fide star player - but still...no way does he trump our boy Taylor.
No ficking way.
Footnote:
ReplyDeleteTo defeat satan slowfoot, the Minotaur gave his only son.
Year after year, somewhere in the bowels of Dallas, one of Hitchcocks' Uruk-hai coaching gnomes would cry out "looks like minotaur's back on the menu!"
Only you had to run your bag off for a fortnight before you got to enjoy it, and a day later you were a smoking pile of bones, when the next motley crew swooped down upon you. Damn, those were frustrating years. For both teams.
I think it was Badger Bob who came up with the Coffey strategy, was he coaching the Steve Smith series? He attributed the win in that series not to the unfortunate own goal but to their strategy for stopping Coffey... whenever Coffey wheeled around to start a rush, the winger on that side was responsible for squeezing him to the boards at the center line in trap-like fashion.
ReplyDelete...Like when you develop your queen too early in chess and it gets pinned on the edge of the board by a maze of pawns and knights, to continue the metaphor.
ReplyDeleteRoli signs, but I don't get it... was he not offered a 4 year deal?
ReplyDeleteWell Hunter you better go give Slats a kiss to wake him up.He appears to have been asleep for 15 or so years.
ReplyDeleteHe has been in NY for close to 10 years now and has made the 2nd round once if I recall.If he was as smart as you claim him to be surely he would have accomplished something by now.
I do give him credit for making a lot of players wealthy beyond their wildest dreams.
Sather?
ReplyDeleteGenius?
I don't think so.
He had Gretzky bought for him/won in a poker/backgammon game.
Everything Sather has touched sans-Gretzky has gone to sh!t.
Take your Jim Matheson beer goggles off, hunter.
Development camp location and attendees announced:
ReplyDeletehttp://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=567697
Notable name not listed would Martindale...80+ point guy this past season would seem to be somebody of interest, no? Injury perhaps?
Hamrlik refuses Montreal's offer. Looking for a 2 year contracts.
ReplyDeleteOn another note:
Dale Tallon is batshit crazy.
Tencer tweeted that Martindale is home sick with tonsillitis and thus isn't attending.
ReplyDeleteA blogger at: http://www.oilersjambalaya.com has an interesting bit about Shane Doan possibly coming here in 2012. Don't know what to make of it, but it's fun to think about...
ReplyDeleteReading this thread makes me feel like I swallowed a handful of crazy pills.
ReplyDeleteI've been thinking about Doan a lot lately (since the first Smyth rumour) and what it would take for him to come here.
ReplyDelete