Actually, it wasn't even a rumor. It was an article written around a tweet (how's that for new media?) from someone named "Incarcerated Bob" that documents a trade rumor. Apparently, the Leafs are interested in Carter, with a first pick, prospects (Kadri?) and Carl Gunnarsson involved.
Who knows how much there is to the story. However, the Oilers are mentioned as a possibility, with picks and youth the return.
What say you? Is Jeff Carter worth pursuing? Or will Jay Feaster get him? Carter has an 11-year contract (why do teams do this?) and is a little better than some of the Oiler centermen.
I like Carter and having him on the Oilers is tempting, but I don't think he's worth what we would likely have to give up to acquire him.
ReplyDeleteNope don't do it. The guy is made of glass. Injured every season. And that contract is discusting.
ReplyDeleteApprox. 5.25M cap hit over those 11 years. No thanks. I agree Lowetide, why do teams do that? (maybe league will curtail this sort of thing in future).
ReplyDeleteGuy is made out of glass? 4 seasons out of 6 with 80 games and none under 62.
ReplyDeleteI say take him. Guy has a ridiculous shot with dominant presence on the ice, perennial 30 goal scorer. He had limited icetime due to the great number of scorers on PHI
The Leafs would absolutely screw Philadelphia doing this.
GFON/60 : 3,61
GAON/60 : 2,15
Corsi REL: 9,3
QC: -0,008 (4th regular F)
QT: 0,043 (8th regular F)
Outscoring the toughs with the dregs.
Gotta jump on it.
Oilers need to stay the course... The rebuild is going to take time and the draft picks need to develop if they are going to develop from within. Pitlick would seem to fit the Carter mould but needs time to become the Cater type... Fast forward a free years and that's what they will have.
ReplyDeleteAnother potential Cater or better is RNH... Again three to four years away from being a top performer at centre... Patience...
The guy is made of glass. Injured every season.
ReplyDeleteCarter's last 4 seasons:
80gp
74gp
82gp
82gp
Seems pretty durable.
-He's a 30g 30a 60pts type Center.
-He plays toughest minutes 5v5 for a C on PHI
-Is +1.45/60 while doing it (the much vaunted TOUGH MINUTE OUTSCORER, very rare.
-Plays 2ndPP
-Kills penalties sparingly
5.75 doesn't seem like too much for this type of player.
His contract is long, but he's only 26 (birthday Jan 1)
He is exactly what the Oilers are missing.
I heard this rumour a while ago too and mentioned in a post that I'd give up 1st OA and a player not named 4,14,91 to get him.
Oilers need a big strong C and Carter has 5-6 high end years in front of him.
Kevin Lowe might be done building by then.
PHI is uber capstrung. 18 players signed for $59MM. Bettman's raising the cap to $62-$63 (no doubt Ed Snider lobbied for another max cap raise), so if the cap come's in at $62.5, the have 3.5MM to sign 5 players.
Carter doesn't have a NTC.
...and is a little better than some of the Oiler centermen.
ReplyDeleteHaha! Understatement at its finest.
FPB,
ReplyDeleteBeat me to the punch.
This is a no brainer if he's available.
If you can get him without giving up any of 1st 2011, 4,14,91 (I'd say 4 and 14 are untouchable, not sure about 91, I wouldn't trade him) then you do it in blink.
Sorry maybe I was wrong about being made of glass but he seems to have been made of glass in the playoffs the past two years. Both times injured. His playoff performance was better this year than last though despite being injured again.
ReplyDelete...and is a little better than some of the Oiler centermen.
ReplyDeleteHaha! Understatement at its finest.
and Jameson's 12 year old Irish Whiskey tastes "a little better" than swamp water.
Pitlick would seem to fit the Carter mould but needs time to become the Cater type... Fast forward a free years and that's what they will have.
ReplyDeleteThere's no reason to believe that Pitlick can become a 30/30 tough minute outscorer in the NHL.
Those players are pretty rare...
WG: Let's compare right now. I'll start with the Irish Whiskey, you start with the swamp water. We'll switch later.
ReplyDeleteWoodguy said...
ReplyDeleteThis is a no brainer if he's available.
If you can get him without giving up any of 1st 2011, 4,14,91 (I'd say 4 and 14 are untouchable, not sure about 91, I wouldn't trade him) then you do it in blink."
If you won't give up anything of value then you won't get him.
Burke could offer a 1st (he has two of them), Kadri and Gunnarsson.
Vancouver could offer Schneider, Hodgson and Connaughton.
You would have to trump those offers.
DSF: Our 1st pick overall is probably worth more.
ReplyDeleteAt worst we take the 19th, add Smid and Omark.
They already have like 3 goalies, in Schneinder's range. Hodgson had a very ordinary AHL season. Oh and they don't have money.
Carter would be a beauty pickup. PHI fits because they will not want any salary back, so it's a quality for prospects type deal. Exactly what the doctor ordered.
ReplyDeleteA long term deal is nice too, no UFA exits.
It won't be cheap though. I'm thinking PRV and edmontons 2nd pick.
Did I not hear that Mike Richards is not getting along with Laviolette as well? Carter is emotionless and Chris Pronger is a dink. They'll all probably be back next year with Philly and learn to get along. Its good to see that Chris Pronger has spread his demon seed on to yet another team. He has an uncanny ability to leave teams in shambles.
ReplyDeleteGagne was traded for a song, Pronger was signed to a moronic deal, so maybe theres a little incompetence lurking somewhere other than in Edmonton.
ReplyDeleteEdmontons 2012 first rounder might carry more value than it's worth if Tambs is serious about adding vets this offseason.
DSF,
ReplyDeleteOilers have better picks and prospects than TOR, easy to beat Burke.
VAN has to trade salary and PHI doesn't want salary. Think Gillis is unhappy with Sedin, Kesler and Maholtra?
I see Carter and Kesler as the same player (except Carter isn't a douchebag and actually plays tough comp)
I don't think VAN makes a play. Gillis needs to figure out how to sign Bieksa and Erhoff before adding another expensive C.
Woodguy said...
ReplyDeleteDSF,
Oilers have better picks and prospects than TOR, easy to beat Burke.
VAN has to trade salary and PHI doesn't want salary. Think Gillis is unhappy with Sedin, Kesler and Maholtra?
I see Carter and Kesler as the same player (except Carter isn't a douchebag and actually plays tough comp)
I don't think VAN makes a play. Gillis needs to figure out how to sign Bieksa and Erhoff before adding another expensive C.
Why do you think Vancouver has to trade salary?
Salo ($3.5M) is coming off the cap.
If the cap is $63M, they will have nearly $18M in cap space to play with.
Sure they have to sign Bieksa and Ehrhoff ($10M?) but their only other free agents are spare parts.
Gillis signing all those sweetheart contracts will pay dividends for years.
Whether or not they make a play is another question but there is no guarantee Malhotra will ever play again.
I would imagine Jeff Carter as a third line centre might work out just fine for them :)
Jon,
ReplyDeleteNaw, I'll take my word on it.
Neither BOS or TBY looks like they could skate with VAN.
BOS would have the better chance though, much more physical Dmen and forwards.
So now guys in prison are generating trade rumours?
ReplyDeleteThat's barely one step above believing a Jim Matheson column.
@ Woodguy
ReplyDeletePut together a package that beats this:
Burke could offer a 1st (he has two of them), Kadri and Gunnarsson.
WG: You won't stop me from fulfilling my thinly veiled rationalization for drinking fine whiskeys.
ReplyDeletelogin
1st, Smid, Omark.
ReplyDelete1st, Paajarvi.
DSF,
ReplyDeleteI meant VAN has to trade salary in that anything they send back to PHI has salary attached to it and PHI can't take on much.
Good point on Mahlotra.
The Dys will have 16.2MM to sign 10 players (if the cap goes to 62.5)
Bieksa will be near 5MM, Ehrhoff over 4MM.
Once they get the D done, I can't see them affording Carter unless they can trade Ballard.
Carter would be a nice addition...but the rumour falls apart for me when it's proposing that Philly takes whatever they get from Toronto and try to trade for someones goalie with it. It just doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't they just sign one?
ReplyDeleteThen again, maybe "goalie", "making sense", and "The Philadelphia Flyers", don't belong together.
Also, Philly has done everything short of tampering to let Bryzgalov know that they want him in Philly next season. They are going to have to dump some dollars one way or another. They weren't paying much over 3 mill combined for their revolving door goaltending and Bryz might be north of 4 mill by himself. They are also going to have to plan to sign James Van Riemsdyk the year after next. I would think that Carter is definitely in play and I agree with WG, that as long as 4, 14 and 91 aren't in the mix and 1OA 2011, then it's definitely worth trying to make a package.
ReplyDeleteBOS / TB are a tossup for me in terms of any chance of beating Vancouver.
ReplyDeleteIm leaning towards TB, simply because VAN will murder BOS in the special teams department. It won't even be close. And VAN have good ES, so the crevice will be too large to recover.
TB at least have a wacky chance if they get the breaks like 06 Carolina. Their Powerplay and Penalty kill could possibly steam a series.
If Malhotra ($2.5M) can't play, Carter adds $3M.
ReplyDeleteIf Salo ($3.5M) isn't re-signed, you use that money to re-sign Bieksa and Ehrhoff.
Bieksa ($3.75M) gets a $1.25M raise, Ehrhoff ($3.1M) gets a $2M raise.
The cap goes up by $4M.
Easy peasy... without trading Ballard.
Put together a package that beats this:
ReplyDeleteBurke could offer a 1st (he has two of them), Kadri and Gunnarsson.
TOR's 1sts are the 25th and its looking like the 29th/30th. Not much better than the Oilers' 31st. Oilers also have 1 and 19.
19th trumps either of those, and 19th+31st trumps 25th+29/30th.
Gunnarsson: I like Gunnarsson and was yelling for a trade when Wilson was HS during the season. That being said I take Smid, and Petry over him. Smid might be close, Petry is much better.
Kadri: Starting to look more like an NHLer and did ok in his 29 games this year. The Oilers don't have many of his type in his position. I think Pajaarvi goes before him in a re-draft.
Kadri's cap hit is 1.7MM for the next 2 years, at little rich for what he brings right now. Every penny counts in PHI.
I don't know why PHI would want him though. They are so full of C's they *may* be trading one.
Not to tough to beat Burke.
Betting lines heading into last week
ReplyDeleteVan 110
TB 275
BOS 450
SJ 450
What about Gagner and LA's two picks for Carter? Or is that too much money going back to Philly?(2.3)
ReplyDeleteI like Petry (calm feet) but saying he is better than Gunnarsson who is already an NHL player is a reach.
ReplyDeleteSmid?
Give me a break.
If the Oilers were willing to part with two picks, the 19th and 31st plus a young cheap roster player, they might be in the running.
Would you do 19th, 31st and Petry for Carter?
Smid?
ReplyDeleteGive me a break.
Just making sure you're paying attention.
Would you do 19th, 31st and Petry for Carter?
I think you have too, but I'd prefer to add Pitlik or Hamilton, but PHI will probably want a young D.
Oilers are uber thin on young D, it would hurt, but you have to do it, then turn Gagner+ or COgs+ into a young Dman.
Why stop at Carter?
ReplyDeleteBurke should just package Gunnarsson for Crosby. Who wouldn't want a bottom pairing D and couple late picks.
The Dys could also dangle Shirokov, though I doubt they would. He's elite. A generational talent, really.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, though, speculating about trade value demeans us all.
Also, jon K: I'm sick and tired of your constant boasting about all fine whiskeys you get to drink.
Traktor said...
ReplyDeleteWhy stop at Carter?
Burke should just package Gunnarsson for Crosby. Who wouldn't want a bottom pairing D and couple late picks.
You mean like this?
"Would you do 19th, 31st and Petry for Carter?"
DSF: Yeah cause the other shit is so much better.
ReplyDeleteI don't think DSF is far off what Holmgren/Clarke will get for Carter if they trade him.
ReplyDeleteGunnarson is only 24 with 111 NHL games, and I bet he'll be a reasonable Top 4 in the NHL for a number of years. Add to it two first rounders and PHI can say they are taking care of their future while getting under the cap.
Petry's much better than Gunnarson though.
When you take the player type and add a contract most teams wouldn't like I think Jeff Carter's value is probably not far off another of the 2003 draft class that got moved at last year's draft (or around there).
ReplyDeleteNathan Horton-20+ goals for the past 6 seasons. Elite pedigree. The price for Horton was a mid-first, Wideman and a 3rd.
Is that Gilbert + 19th + 2nd?
Probably is but I don't see them wanting Gilbert's salary.
Smid + 19th + Hamilton + 2nd
And DSF is right, Brian Burke may offer the moon but that isn't the current established value of this player.
Woodguy said...
ReplyDelete"Petry's much better than Gunnarson though."
Based on what, exactly?
Horton's value is way under Carter's.
ReplyDeleteOnly 1 30 goals season.
These newfangled 10+ year contracts IMO are likely to be far more effective no trade clauses than *actual* no trade clauses.
ReplyDeleteI can't imagine many teams being in a situation where a player with such a contract looks appealing, not unless you're trading a bag of pucks for such a player. Well, some teams go for these contracts so I suppose they're appealing to a few GMs, but would NYI go for another long-term big money contract? I doubt it.
Without renegotiating such a contract I hope there's no way the Oilers make such a trade.
Clubs that don't have a 1st line center:
ReplyDeleteCalgary
Nashville
Columbus
Edmonton
Toronto
Buffalo
Atlanta
Florida
New Jersey
New York
St Louis
11 teams. With all due respect, if you don't think Carter will fetch a kings random you're an idiot.
Parise/
ReplyDeleteRoy, Backes
ReplyDeleteI guess it depends what you have to get him. I wouldn't give much more than the 19th and maybe Smid and a Martindale.
ReplyDeleteHe has a full no trade from 12/13 to 15 and then a limited no trade thereafter. He is an east coaster. How long until he asks for a trade from EDM?
His high water mark in the OHL (in his 4th year) was 74 points. I'd be hestitant to trade RNH and his 106 pts as a 17 year old for that.
Then we look at his NHL seasons.
42 pts
37 pts
53 pts
84 pts
61 pts
66 pts
When you figure the qulity of teammates he has had and discount the outlier year, he doesn't seem like the guy you want to be tying up huge salary for the next 11 yrs.
If you can get a good deal for him, ok. Otherwise pass.
"(the much vaunted TOUGH MINUTE OUTSCORER, very rare.)
ReplyDelete-Plays 2ndPP
-Kills penalties sparingly
5.75 doesn't seem like too much for this type of player.
His contract is long, but he's only..."
Horcoff much.. (except we all know carter is better..)
Echoing the sentiment that the contract is stupid, make phili sweat and hugely underpay if dealing for that contract...
Oh, and its not like Carter is a ruffian either. He has 38 and 39 PIMs the last 2 years.
ReplyDeleteThe more I think about it, is Carter even a true #1 center? He obviously is better than anything the Oilers have but he doesn't seem to have the offense you ideally want from a #1.
They only have to trade him because they outpayed Hartnell (4,2), Brière (6,5) and Timmonen (6,3).
ReplyDelete5M$ isn't all that much. It's in the Kesler/Plekanec range.
Ducey: 8th of his club on QT.
His 3 last years are pretty much phantom years.
Ducey: Having few PIM's doesn't mean you aren't tough. That's ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteDSF
ReplyDeleteIf carter and kesler are essentially the same player then why are you (and the rest) talking about van acquiring him..
Why cant the assertion that vancouver is trading for Carter be simply dealt with a..
YOUR WRONG
(hehe)
Ducey: Having few PIM's doesn't mean you aren't tough. That's ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteWe have had this discussion before.
I did not say he wasn't tough, but he is not going to crush people and then pound on them some more. Like Lucic or even Iginla. That kind of extra intimidation dimension might justify the contract a little more.
His outscoring at 5V5 is one of the best.
ReplyDeleteOnly 11 players with 40+ games can say they had better ON60+- than him. And only 7 for GFON/60.
That's what justifies his contract.
He obviously had to share the ice more since PHI had so many quality forwards. Increased time would probably make it rise to the 75 range.
You guys all suck as GMs. If I were GM, I would trade Fraser and Souray for him and everyone would love me.
ReplyDeleteBookie: Amateur. I'd only fetch them Strudwick.
ReplyDeleteFPV - Strudwick is not under contract and you would still be stuck with Fraser and Souray.
ReplyDeleteI am pretty sure my trade wins the day out of those two.
Bookie: Details.
ReplyDeleteBookie and FPV... Thanks for the late-night chuckle.
ReplyDeletewas jeff carter's roomate danny heatley's marion's espousas?
ReplyDeletei can't remember our gm's name?
Carter can be like Penner in that you wish he would use his tom size more.
ReplyDeleteHowever, he has a better motor than Penner and does use his size well in front of the opposition net. He has a sharp shooters shot. He is excellent defensively and would be a massive upgrade to the PK.
Does he fit? I think a play-making RWer like Hemsky or Gagner could get Carter the set ups he needs to finish.
Can he be obtained? If Philly is shopping him, it is hard to say what it would take. Guys like him have gone for cheap and also for the moon. It being a cap clearing move makes it more difficult to assess. If he will play here, I think Tambellini has to make inquiries.
Richards' pending free agency will help as TO and NYR will both be looking to make a play for him. And the Oilers #19 is worth more than both TO's firsts put together.
My starting point with Holmgren: 19th, CGY 3rd, and choice of Cogliano, Brule, Hamilton, Pitlick or Lander. Go from there.
Trade either Hemsky or Gagner for Bogo, sign O'Brien and Chris Higgins and we're one drunken Russian away from playoff contention.
the reality is that Philly has major cap problems and have said they want to upgrade their goalie as a priority. So they need to clear mopney big time. Like philly did with the hartnell and timonen deals that vaulted them into the playoffs, I would try and put together a deal that gets you Carter and Coyburn. That solves two of our three top issues (#1 centre, top 2 dman who plays two ways). Coyburn is due a big raise as an rfa, and there are 4 other dmen who qualify as top 4 dmen on the Flyers who make big money already.
ReplyDeleteMy question to the group is, if you add Coyburn and Carter are we a playoff team? If the answer is yes then I think you make a huge deal if needed.
Cogliano, Smid and next years 1st. And if I had to I'd do LA's 1st this year as well. A lot I know, but we have the cap space, we have the top pick this year and a lot of prospects in the pipe. Eventually you use that glut of talent and picks to make a splash and make a play for the playoffs. It positions us for a 2 year run at the cup before the kids need raises. be bold, do something. Add a few veterans to fill out the roster and maybe we do have a chance.
Put together a package that beats this:
ReplyDeleteBurke could offer a 1st (he has two of them), Kadri and Gunnarsson.
Sure: 19th pick, Gagner and Smid.
Done, next question?
Put together a package that beats this:
ReplyDeleteBurke could offer a 1st (he has two of them), Kadri and Gunnarsson.
Sure: 19th pick, Gagner and Smid.
Done, next question?
DBO,
ReplyDeleteI don't think PHI trades any D. They have Pronger, Timonen, Meszaros, Carle, Coburn and young Bartulis under contract as Dmen right now, they can't afford to get rid of one, I think they look for one in return for Carter. Preferably on an ELC.
DSF,
Based on what, exactly?
Aulie coming in and getting more EVTOI than Gunnarsson, no PP time for Gunnarsson. Petry playing on a club that much thinner on D, but was putting in a solid 16m/g 5v5. Petry also getting PP time.
By eye mostly. Watched a lot of TOR games this year and Petry seems to move the puck faster and more accurately as well as having the quiet feet you mentioned.
He's exactly the type of guy we need. Slightly older than the young'ns, but still young himself; a scorer and a leader. If he's available, go get him.
ReplyDeleteI've honestly given up hope of this team making logical and aggressive moves though. They've had so many chances since '06 and have failed miserably to do so (and no, I'm not talking about hunting UFA whales).
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteI've honestly given up hope of this team making logical and aggressive moves though. They've had so many chances since '06 and have failed miserably to do so (and no, I'm not talking about hunting UFA whales).
I think there is no hope of this move being made, especially with Penner being traded.
I think that Carter would still fit with this group, he's only 26 and this group still needs more leaders.
The problem is that management has made it clear they are growing from within. They want their high end players to know only Edmonton in their pro experience, so they don't get the itch to leave.
The Pronger ordeal has made them very, very gun shy about acquiring any significant piece outside of the draft.
So we sit and wait for kids to grow up.
From the Copper and Blue. Warning signs about RNH.
ReplyDeleteRNH
Woodguy - Agreed. Completely illogical and pathetic on management's part (to the point where they should be fired for being scared little children), but sadly it's "the plan".
ReplyDeleteLittleFury:
ReplyDeleteShirokov a generational talent? Sorry, but someone's gotta call shenanigans on that and it looks like it's me.
Guy can't crack an NHL roster for three years. He's lazy in the defensive side and not a good enough one-dimensional player to merit being on said roster. He's gone through epic slumps in Manitoba and he's no spring chicken (25 by my count).
He's being passed by such noted NHL superstars as Cody Hodgson, Victor Oreskovich and, wait for it, Aaron Volpatti for ice-time with the Canucks. He'll be back in Siberia next year.
On Carter, he's worth the price of admission for me and is worth a pretty penny. He fits a need on the Oilers roster, could jumpstart the rebuild, and possibly give Hemsky a reason to sign a new contract. That's all sorts of win.
Trade for Carter, draft Larsson. There's our two glaring holes covered by killing two birds with one rocket launcher. As for what he's worth, I'd wager;
LA 1st rounder, Marincin, Omark.
I took the Shirokov comment as heavy sarcasm.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of trading for Carter and drafting Larsson but I think the Oilers would have to offer up 1 OV to get any interest from Philly.
The Oilers are in a position to offer Philly what they need:
-an owner that wouldn't have a problem taking on a $55M+ contract
-the cap space(without having to make subsequent moves or send salary back in the deal)
-the assets needed..draft picks and prospects
But Woodguy got it right-the Oilers don't make moves like this.We will wait for the kids to grow up and that's all there is to it.
Jeff carter: Since he has hit core strength age 22:
ReplyDeleteHe has averaged:
36G/season
80Gm /season.
Above 50% on the dot.
Ranked 2nd to 29th in goals those 4 years.
His 36G would average 9th best goal scorer in the league.
His .45 Goals/game rate is 9th best.
Right up there with:
Malkin (.46) 8.7M
5th Nash (.46) 7.8M
Heatley (.46)7.5M
Vanek (.44) 7M
Perry (.44) 5.3M
Staal (.44) 8.25M
Marleau (.43) 6.9M
Carter @ 5.27M for 11 he is not 34 till year 9 of contract. He is in playing prime for scorers for 90% of the contract.
How does that salary look in that group. And perry is due up in 13/14. 7.5-8M anyone.
It gets better:
Averaged around 2min in PK and 5.25GA/60 the last 4 years.
that is top 50 for forwards and top 30 for centers.
doritogrande, littlefury is having some fun at a certain vocal poster who sometimes does impressions of a mythical creature from Nordic folklore, who was/is very bullish on Shirokov, labeling him thusly.
ReplyDeleteWoodguy - Agreed. Completely illogical and pathetic on management's part (to the point where they should be fired for being scared little children), but sadly it's "the plan".
ReplyDeleteWell hasn't just been Pronger. There is Hossa, Nylander, Heatley, Peca, Cole, Pitkanen, Visnovsky? and no doubt lots of conversations with agents about FA's, and possible trades shot down by NMC's.
All the situations are different but share the same message. We don't want to play in EDM.
The only exception seems to be Whitney (God bless him)
I suspect that Carter would be less than pleased to be sent to EDM to raise it back from the ashes.
But youneverknow.
Being on a young, talented team that's looking at a new arena in the next few years isn't going to be as hard a sell as in the past.
ReplyDeleteThe arena will go quite a ways in alleviating FA concerns. Now they just have to start making steps at improving. That means NO MORE TANKING.
Time to fill holes.
I've heard that before somewhere....
Why exactly is Weight deciding to spend his lafe after hockey in the NYI organization?
ReplyDeleteThose 107 games and 51 points over 3 years were just too memorable to walk away from?
I'm all for Carter. Edmonton bars (and Edmonton girls) won't know what hit them.
ReplyDeleteItsaleaf said:
ReplyDeleteThe arena will go quite a ways in alleviating FA concerns
Ducey said:
Well hasn't just been Pronger. There is Hossa, Nylander, Heatley, Peca, Cole, Pitkanen, Visnovsky? and no doubt lots of conversations with agents about FA's, and possible trades shot down by NMC's.
I'm not sure the rink has a pile to do with it, but a new rink surely helps a bit.
I don't remember Cole saying one bad thing about the city or the Oilers.
The common thread between Pronger, Vis, Nylander and Peca is unhappy wives.
Its one thing for a player to change cities, but quite another for their families.
Mrs. Pronger was rumoured to hate Edmonton and demanded the trade. In a big interview in the paper Cal Nichols alluded to it.
It was Mrs. Nylander who kiboshed the deal.
For some reason the Peca's were directed by the Oilers to get an acreage in Ardrosson and Mrs. Peca felt lonley and cut off out there (many would, even those who grow up here, now imagine you know no one and its -30 and your husband is on a road trip....)
Mrs. Vis just had a baby and had no support network in Edmonton. Knowing how much my wife and I relied on our family and friends after my daughter was born, I can sympathize with her. Vis being gone on road trips and leaving her alone with a new baby must have been very stressful.
Is Carter married?
I don't think the players mind Edmonton too much, they get the rock star treatment everywhere and a lot of players, especially the younger ones, tend to like that.
Can be a shitty place to come as a wife though. I don't really blame them.
Need more Finns. Finns don't mind the cold dark winters, and Finns win.
Why exactly is Weight deciding to spend his lafe after hockey in the NYI organization?
ReplyDeleteThose 107 games and 51 points over 3 years were just too memorable to walk away from?
Because the St. Louis years didn't provide enough for his family. (That comment is for Dennis)
I'm all for Carter. Edmonton bars (and Edmonton girls) won't know what hit them.
ReplyDeleteIf that's the way he rolls, I think he'd like Edmonton.
Rules every GM should live by to make sure their team doesn't suck:
ReplyDelete1 - Don't trade picks in the top 10 for players.
2 - If you get the best player in the deal, you probably won the trade
3 - Use your position to best effect - "It's all a matter of leverage" - William Turner, Pirates of the Caribbean
Based on these rules, it's clear that if Carter is availble, he's worth pursuing. It's not like the Oilers don't have valuable assets too - they just aren't NHL-ready yet, or are replacement level in the NHL. I wouldn't throw ANY of our A-List prospects, or move any 1sts this year or in '12. That's something Toronto does - it's a recipe for mediocrity.
The move I would be suggesting is: Gagner/Cogliano, Blain/Pitlick, Chorney/Plante and either '11 or'12 2nd for Carter. If Cobrun is available too, I'd be willing to make both 2nds available, and move Smid instead of Chorney/Plante.
If he costs more than that, it's not worth it. Sure, he's the best asset in the trade, but giving up more than that hurts the team more moving forwards than getting Carter helps now. Since we're not one player away from a cup run... paying more of our futures is foolish.
THat being said, if you can get the man/men for something in that ball park... You make the move and laugh like Lowe did when he got Pronger out of St. Louis, or like Burke did when he got 44 from Lowe.
ReplyDeleteThose 107 games and 51 points over 3 years were just too memorable to walk away from?
Did he have any other offers to immediately become a assistant coach and assistant GM?
Seems like a pretty sweet job offer for someone who wants to stay in the business and has no management or coaching experience.
Standard NYI procedure.
The problem is that we don't have what they want if what they want is a netminder.
ReplyDeleteBut if they're confident they can land either Vokun or Bryz in the offseason then we can certainly help restock their farm system and then we'd be a good match.
So, it's a trade that probably only can happen on July 1st or 2nd; unless it's a three-way deal where they get a goalie return.
I know the Kings have Schenn in the pipe to go along with Kopitar but that seems to be a match with LA always looking for a pivot and then having young Bernier to dangle.
As for what I'd give up? the 2012 first should have a lot of cache and besides that only 4-14 and 58 would be off-limits in terms of the young kids they'll likely be looking for.
5 might be another guy they'd covet if they thought they could somehow trick someone into taking Carle's stipend off their hands.
Finally, it's nice to think about the Oilers actually getting better, isn't it?
Think Carter is an elite shoot first centre. That wiould fit quite well with an elite pass first Hemsky. It would not be hard to sell Carter on being a team leader on a very good young emerging Oiler team.
ReplyDeleteReal trouble is Carter sleeps in his own bed 180 nights of the season playing in Philly where NJD,NYI,NYR,Pittsburgh and Washington are all 2 hours away or less
Alsolutely love to have him, think he would be a great addition and would actually enjoy it here but it is completely contrary to the "be real, real bad until we are real, real good" PLAN Lowebellini has sold to the fan base
Jordan
ReplyDeleteYou are offerred;
Gagner/Cogliano; Blain/Pitlick; Chorney/Plante and either '11 or'12 2nd for Carter
I like Gagner and #13 overall this year and nothing else in the trade.
I would not do your deal, but Holmgren may
So are we expecting Carter to outscore Horcoff then? ;)
ReplyDeleteIm all for acquiring Carter and am surprised he'd be the guy Philly moved. With salary dumps, I typically find the return to be very underwhelming. Have to assume 4, 14, 91 and probably 58 are out of play. I like 89 but I think he be the centerpiece. With 3 mill in cap savings, would he be enough?
That read on Dougie Hamilton is a gooder. Oilers NEED a top pairing dman with size.
Shirokov a generational talent? Sorry, but someone's gotta call shenanigans on that and it looks like it's me.
ReplyDeleteDG: It was a piss-take at DSF, who was on HF boards (before he got banned) claiming that Shirokov was better than any Oilers prospect, including Eberle and MPS. You know: normal stuff.
TOJ: Yeah, he doesn't even know the meaning of the word travel while playing in that division.
ReplyDeleteNice point about him being a shoot first pivot and 83 being a pass first winger.
Dennis: I can't see the Kings in the running for Carter based on their cap situation. Assuming that the cap rises to $62M next year, that would leave LA with 16 players under contract at about $14M in cap space. As Drew Doughty is an RFA, they'll need to devote a hefty chunk of that to getting him signed - anything less than $6M per risks an offer sheet (and I think it's more likely to be around $7M). Along with Carter's $5M+ and the Kings would be in the same position that Philly's now in - a couple million to sign a number of players. No way the pull that off - unless they want to trade us Dustin Penner for a 6th rounder. :)
ReplyDeleteI like 89 but I think he be the centerpiece. With 3 mill in cap savings, would he be enough?
ReplyDeletePHI doesn't need a center. Richards, Briere and Giroux would be their top 3. Giroux moving over from RW.
They also would need $0 going back unless it was a Dman on ELC or similar.
Woodguy - The circumstances that most of these players found themselves in are a team problem. Professional sports franchises have the means to make problems like this go away in most cases. The Oilers haven't taken this approach, and it has cost them dearly. I hope they're learning.
ReplyDeleteCactus: fair enough.
ReplyDeleteAll: reading some stuff on the wings and wouldn't Pitkanen be a perfect fit there?
From Dean Lombardi about Penner:
ReplyDelete“Dustin is at the cross-roads of his career,” Lombardi wrote in an email to Sporting News. “He can choose to use his athletic ability to either become a dominant power forward in the National Hockey League or be a dominant number four hitter for the El Cid Lounge in a men’s softball league—the choice is his.”
Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/story/2011-05-26/nhl-trade-deadline-revisited-winners-and-losers-are-both-still-alive#ixzz1NUeBwMdK
or be a dominant number four hitter for the El Cid Lounge in a men’s softball league—the choice is his.”
ReplyDeleteNo, I think golf pro is more Dustin's style. Softball is too intense.
If that deal doesn't work out Lombardi might be the El Cid manager.
Seriously, this kind of "motivate in the media" stuff doesn't work on Penner - ask MacT.
I still have hope the Oilers will be able to sign Penner to a FA deal. He seemed to like it here - of course the wifey is in the picture now.
If we awere seriously in the mix for Carter, that completely changes the dynamic for our #1 pick. A center is not an absolute necessity.
ReplyDeleteQuestion then becomes does Landeskog become an option? Larssen?? or does Colorado pay us to leave whoever they want at #2 alone???
How about our #1, La's # 1 and a prospect (or our 3rd round pick) for #2 and # 11
If it's a cap driven deal how about Carter & Pronger for Gagne, Smid and our 31st...
ReplyDeleteC'mon now how much fun would that be. I think Mrs. Prongs is gone anyway isn't she?
Motivate in the media doesn't work with Penner quickly enough to save your coaching job. Some onion toting slob shows up to take all the credit, and then the next year after love and sunshine Penner reverts back to a pumpkin carriage. On whose coaching shift did the clock strike midnight?
ReplyDeleteThis idea about the team getting the best player "winning the trade" has always sounded suspicious to me. The best player usually goes from a team exiting "win now" mode to a team entering "win now" mode sitting on a stockpile of prospects or value contracts.
There's also availability bias. We remember the killer trades best of all. Boston did OK with the collection of spare parts, and what has San Jose done lately? And someone remind me, did Ottawa win the Heatley/Hossa trade, or not?
I'd like to see some numbers to back up "traded him good".
I don't think Penner's gonna take that slam very kindly.
ReplyDeleteSure, he didn't play well at all with LA but to say he's at a crossroads and use softball in the same sentance?
I bet Lombardi wishes he had that one back
It might work with Penner this year. You gotta think a public comment like that hurts his negotiating leverage as an UFA.
ReplyDeleteHe will probably be motivated to have a big regular season now, and get that final retirement contract so he can coast his way into his 30s.
LA probably see it as they're not gonna resign him anyways so putting his money in peril will at least maximize the return on the cap space he's eating next season if he becomes a 30+ goal guy again.
Scott Gomez would be the perfect fit the oilers need some puck moving foward and who can play power plays too !!!!
ReplyDeleteOilers should go for it. None of the centers early in the draft are sure things to become like Carter, then we'd have our #1 center and our franchise defenseman in Larsson.
ReplyDeleteBTW - Omark/Paajarvi won't be dealt, too much upside.