Music! Where in h-e-double-hockey-sticks was this young man all season? Why in God's name didn't he get here earlier? What would keep him from being an Oiler, when minutes were being given out pell mell to any swinging dick who could stand on skates?
Why, indeed.
--
Teemu Hartikainen 10-11
- 5x5 points per 60: 1.04 (13th among forwards but DNQ)
- 5x4 points per 60: 4.21 (2nd among forwards but DNQ)
- Qual Comp: 16th toughest faced among forwards but DNQ
- Qual Team: worst available teammates among forwards but DNQ
- Corsi Rel: .9 (9th best among forwards but DNQ)
- Zone Start: 55.9% (2nd easiest among forwards but DNQ)
- Zone Finish: 60.8% (best among regular forwards but DNQ)
- Shots on goal/percentage: 21/14.3% (tied for 2nd best among F's but DNQ)
- Boxcars: 12gp, 3-2-5
- Plus Minus: -3 on a team that was -52
- What do these numbers tell us? Hartikainen showed well when called up to end the season. His CorsiRel and total points suggest the Oilers might have a useful player here, although it's in a very small sample size. I do like the Zone finish number.
- How can these numbers be better? More at-bats. This is a quick snapshot, and sometimes that's a good thing (Tikkanen) and other times it isn't a good indicator at all. We need more data, but the early ticker is good.
- IS he ready? We can't get too far ahead of ourselves, but a reasonable timeline would have the big Finn compete for a 4line LW spot this fall. I don't see any math reason to suggest he won't be a massive upgrade over Jacques, MacIntyre and the other 4th line wingers we endured this past season. The Oilers might go out and acquire a useful 3line L to slide onto the roster and that could block Hartikainen but it doesn't seem likely.
- Where can he play? Renney used him on one of the skill lines and although his 5x5/60 wasn't splendid he did look comfortable playing with skilled men. He played with VandeVelde and Eberle (30%) and Cogliano and Omark (21%) most of the time and that was the cream of the available crop.
- What about PP? Why not? Look, the Oilers are beyond puke when it comes to the PP. I don't care if Hartikainen spends the winter docked in front of the other net, if he helps score goals have at it. Hartikainen has a skill that's useful on good PP's, it would seem foolish not to at least try him in that role. Plus he has hands and an idea.
- He can't fill Jacques role. What--and I need the exact wording here--what is Jacques role? Teemu Hartikainen matched JFJ in total points while playing 208 minutes. Jacques took 360 minutes. That's two and a half hours skating around looking big.
- They need Jacques as an enforcer. I know coach Renney likes his knuckledraggers, but perhaps we can talk him into having just one (MacIntyre) denver boot for these poor bastards to drag around every night.
- Hartikainen can't fight. Hartikainen is a big winger with good hands and an idea about how to get things done in tough areas. Hartikainen has a unique skill set compared to someone like Jacques and he might end up being a top 9 regular with the NHL team in 11-12. He tied for 10th overall in AHL rookie scoring, he paid his dues.
- So he's better than Jacques. Big deal. We're dealing in a small sample size here so it's important not to go too far. Having said that, I would argue that Hartikainein is a better bet to help win games next season than Jacques, MacIntyre, O'Marra, Fraser, Brule, Reddox and Jones. And I'm not including people like Zack Stortini, Giroux and VandeVelde.
- So you see him as an Oiler next season. You bet. I see Hall, Eberle, MP, Hemsky, Omark and Hartikainen as the 6 best wingers on the roster. Should the Oilers improve the position there's still plenty of room.
- You'd take him over Ryan Jones? In a heartbeat. The kids is 6.01, 215, 21 years old and carried that OKC team for stretches a year ago. This Finn can help and he's far less expensive than Jones.
Here's a guy that's going to play more than a few games at the NHL level. Love his game.
ReplyDeleteWhy in God's name didn't he get here earlier? What would keep him from being an Oiler, when minutes were being given out pell mell to any swinging dick who could stand on skates?
ReplyDeleteWhy, indeed.
Uh, maybe they needed to develop the guy in the AHL a little?
Perhaps the criticism is more about not having enough NHLer's but Teemu wasn't one at the beginning of the season and may not be a good choice for one at the beginning of next season.
I love Teemu but he just turned 21 (2 days ago). I don't see the focus on getting him in the NHL right away.
He put up .64 pt/g in the AHL. Thats good for a 20 year old coming to NA. But put that in your NHLE and factor in that he would get better minutes (more and with better linemates) in the AHL and he is not likely to emerge from a full NHL season with a ton of success on the 3rd or 4th lines.
I hope he gets a least 1/2 of next season in the AHL to play in all situations.
It was nice to see Joel Ward score in the midst of CBC fellating VANs penalty kill.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the criticism is more about not having enough NHLer's...
ReplyDeleteThat's how I read it. We'd probably all love to have enough NHL talent that a guy like Hartikainen would stay in the minors, but we'd also all like to have enough NHL talent that guys like Jacques and O'Marra are flushed from the organization, and yet they were given NHL time in preference to the Finn (O'Marra's a centre, but I'm using him as an example). Doesn't make a lot of sense. Of course, a good team wouldn't be debating which of its AHLers it wants to throw in the deep end.
Ducey: I don't see how it happens. The Oilers right now at wing:
ReplyDelete1. Hall
2. Eberle
3. MP
4. Hemsky
5. Hartikainen
6. Omark
Should they choose to sign Jones that still leaves room for Hartikainen and a guy like Reddox along with a Louisville slugger in the top 14F.
Now, if the Oilers sign a center, move Cogliano to LW then we might see enough to back him up until the first injury.
But half a season? Man, I can't see it.
I need to estimate for next year and witty comment at the end!!
ReplyDeletedanny: I laughed hard at that one. Thanks for that.
ReplyDeleteYou bet. I see Hall, Eberle, MP, Hemsky, Omark and Hartikainen as the 6 best wingers on the roster.
ReplyDeleteGo Team HEMPHOH!
Hartikainen can't fight.
What's this about? Who says he can't fight?
What a bonehead penalty by Suter.
ReplyDeleteHow many times has Craig Simpson said "maybe that will catapult Henrik into a scoring streak?"
ReplyDeleteGotta be 10.
Defence seems to be the issue with this kid, and despite the AHL time he looks like he will still bleed without linemate or zone help. That said, he's a pleasant surprise and his ability to actually take and receive a pass has him ahead of JFJ in my books.
ReplyDeleteIt might be better to give him the extra minutes he will see in OKC, but it does look like we will have a real live NHL player in this kid some day whatever happens.
Some great lines in that post LT. Thanks for the poetry.
Take the goaler out of the net from the get-go and Henrik will go a on a real tear.
ReplyDeleteLowetide: Seeing how the Canucks are 3-1 up right now this might be a bad time to bring it up, but given the fact they've already played one killer 7 game series, plus the fact they're not an experienced playoff team, exactly how much can they reasonably be expected to have in the tank if they make the finals?
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers always seemed to open against Winnipeg, and usually swept them away easily. Back then it was never much of an issue who Oilers met in the playoffs, since they could beat most teams easily.
The nucks are very fortunate to be in the position to close this series next game, is all I can say.
*bandwagon Sharks fan*
I think the Canucks are getting all of the breaks and that guy Kesler is killing it.
ReplyDeleteHowever, if SJS comes out of the other series I'd expect VAN to remain the favorite. I don't trsut the Shark blue and their goalie makes me nervous.
The finals could be a test. That TBAY coach has a team that believes and the Bruins will be a worthy finalist should they make it.
Roli, Roli, Roli.
ReplyDeleteTampas shooters against Luongo would be great. He'd be soiling his pants every time his team took a penalty.
ReplyDeleteDucey: I don't see how it happens. The Oilers right now at wing:
ReplyDelete1. Hall
2. Eberle
3. MP
4. Hemsky
5. Hartikainen
6. Omark
Should they choose to sign Jones that still leaves room for Hartikainen and a guy like Reddox along with a Louisville slugger in the top 14F.
I think it would be easy to do:
1 Hall
2 Hemksy
3 Eberle
4 MPS
5 Omark
6 Brule
7 Jones
8 Reddox
9 JFJ
10 SMac
There are 10 guys there besides Teemu. Brule and his $1.8 M are not going anywhere and if they sign Jones, that only leaves one spot.
Fine by me. Teemu should come up when he is ready, not when the team needs him.
Nashville are playing like a team that hasn't been there before. Bad penalties, inconsistent play. Catching a few bad breaks. I'd like to see the replay on Hamhuis knee to knee on OSullivan. It looked pretty convenient, and judging by the dives and dirty plays Hamhuis has been making, it's hard to give him the benefit of the doubt. Tough loss for NSH.
ReplyDeleteKesler is a dirty dbag as well. He's really good at not getting caught, that elbow on Smithsons nose was brutal. That goal in the 3rd was, I begrudgingly admit, a beauty though.
Of all the teams left, I think Nashville is the weakest matchup for the Canucks. They don't have the offensive sustain to overpower Vancouver. Teams like Boston / SJ / Det / Tampa have a bit more depth on offense and can exploit the lower end of the nucks lineup.
I think I'd rather Calgary win a cup than that other franchise. They are just so easy to hate.
Leading up to last game Van were crying about the refereeing, and after the refs handed game 3 to them on a silver platter, Burrows said, with a straight face, that the refs are just calling the penalties as they see them.
did anyone know that Spike.com did an article listing the top 10 worst fans in professional sports?
The Canucks fans finished 5th. The only other NHL team was Montreal at 9th.
Joel Ward looks like a force.
hall mps hamilton harti are the future LW
ReplyDeletemontreal shoulda been 1st on that list, worst fans for any sport goin on there. at the first ufc they held all the fighters hats got stolen, and they boo their own team if they are losing.
ReplyDeleteSheldon "Oilers Fan for Life!!!"
ReplyDeleteI really can not see Vancouver beating any of the teams that will be in the third round. If they beat the sharks I will be shocked. I see Zero chance against Boston and If Roli has another miracle in him I would expect him to beat Vancouver as well. UNTIL Vancouver wins a Stanley Cup I wont believe they can!!! I am not convinced that the Twins are willing to sacrifice the body enough to get it done. My pick to win at this point is Boston hands Down! I would love to see Roli win it all but I just don't see how they beat Boston.
...and they boo their own team if they are losing.
ReplyDeleteShocking.
I wonder how many times MA Bergeron has been giving the "don't run into Roli" grilling in the locker room?
ReplyDeleteoh please SS, you don't think montreal boos there own team more than any other nhl team?
ReplyDeleteI have no idea, which is why I didn't dispute the statement "Montreal fans boo their own team more often than fans of other teams boo theirs".
ReplyDeleteWell, that and because that statement was never actually made.
(I will also note that I prefer fans to boo their team over showing the kind of enthusiasm-against-all-evidence that typifies the Vancouver fan.)
ReplyDeletei guess i could have added "more than any other team", or you could have taken that from me saying "they should be first on that list.."
ReplyDeletei guess i could have added "more than any other team", or you could have taken that from me saying "they should be first on that list.."
ReplyDeleteI could have taken anything I liked from that. I decided to take what you said; I'm kind of a traditionalist that way.
Not sure Vanc can win the west with the Sedins as passengers and they have NOT been impressive in the last 6 games. Hate Kesler on opposition but would absolutely love to have him on this squad. He competes hard all night. Also has a little bit of Messier in him with elbow to Smithson
ReplyDeleteOn the Finn, I agree with Ducey, he was not ready to play in the NHL at the start of the year. If we are committed to the same lineup of smurfs + JFJ,+Smac there may not be room at the Inn for Teemu.
That said if we have the same roster of smurfs this year we will end up in the mid 20's overall and the fault lies solely at the GM's feet
This Finn can help
ReplyDeleteMost Finns can.
More Finns please.
Everybody who wrings their hands about players wanting to play and stay in Edmonton, remember that Helsinki is on the 60 latitude and Edmonton is 53.55
Finns are used to dark long winters, so Edmonton's environment isn't a shock to them.
More Finns please.
Kesler is a miracle worker. Despite entirety of Canadian media falling all over themselves to elect the guy directly into the Hall of Fame, somehow he dons a cloak of invisibility during games. Sticks, elbows, knees, whatever, they're A-OK if Kesler is on the dishing end. Put him on the receiving end though, and tweet!
ReplyDeleteBesides the flagrant elbow that bloodied Smithson, he high-sticked Fisher on the play where Suter took him down and somehow the refs only saw the one infraction, giving the Canucks an undeserved, game-winning powerplay for the second game in a row, both drawn by Kesler. And, to his credit, both finished by Kesler.
I'm not saying he's not a good player, but call the rules both ways, goddammit.
I think it would be easy to do...There are 10 guys there besides Teemu. Brule and his $1.8 M are not going anywhere
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
None of the bottom 4 guys on that list are under contract as of July 1.
There is nothing that says any of them need to be back. And Hartikainen is better than most of them.
Why can't they do something with Brule?
On the one hand, He's a cheap buy-out.
On the other, they buried a helluva lot more than $1.8 in the minors this past season.
I know the math guys hate this kind of stuff but the Sedins just don't look like playoff performers. They are more likely to dive than fight through a check and they seem to be disappearing when things get rough. Given how crucial the Sedins are for the Canucks and the loss of Malhotra I think the question becomes whether Kesler has enough to go head to head with Thornton and the gang. I don't think he does.
ReplyDeleteNashville really isn't showing much but the Nucks have looked like the weakest of the four teams likely to advance; they look like a team that has already won their Stanley (the Chicago series). They have been getting some breaks or it could easily be 2-2 or even 3-1 the other way and how long will those breaks last?
And has Luongo really found his game yet?
I should amend that: the Sedins are pisscutters as LT likes to say and I'm not trying to say they are "weak Euros." But for whatever reason they seem to be disappearing in the playoffs and their diving post-play and during play has seemed to increase. It isn't like Kesler who is playing it both ways (dishing out elbows and faking it for the calls). They are a liability right now and their antics just make them seem like fish out of water.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.
ReplyDeleteI expessed the concern that Teemu needed more time in the AHL. LT then said that he felt it was necessary to have Teemu in the NHL due to the lack of other options.
I was pointing out there are other options, several of which are already under contract or RFA's.
Its also arguable that Jones and Brule are both likely to bring more to the table in the short term than Teemu and if Teemu needs more seasoning this would work out nicely.
The other thing to think about is depth. It is much better to keep Brule, Jones and Reddox around with Teemu ready to step in when he is good and ready. Buying out Brule (a poor move IMHO) and dumping Jones leaves little recourse in the event Teemu struggles or gets hurt.
Eventually, this team will need to learn that promoting players from the AHL to the NHL, on the basis of a handful of meaningless end of season games, does not constitute correct player development.
ReplyDeleteI might as well face it. I want the Oilers prospects to play in a parallel hockey universe, while the so-called real team tanks for the next 3 years.
Love Hartikainen. I can see him earning a roster spot next year.
ReplyDeleteI also wonder about the comment that "Renney loves his knuckledraggers". Well, he sure as hell doesn't use them very well. I think he loves to have them in the lineup to take up an extra roster spot.. that's about it.
Anyways, Hartikainen is an astronomical upgrade on MacIntyre or Jacques.
I love googling 2011 NHL mock drafts.
ReplyDeleteThey're always interesting to look at, and many (even some of the more "official" ones) are full of comedy.
My favourite was one I came across today that said the Oilers would take RNH, but noted that they might consider Landeskog due to our depth at C (Horcoff, Gagner, Brule and Eberle) and because at RW "besides Hemsky and Zach Storini they got nothing."
I think my favourite line was this one:
Jordan Eberle played some right wing down the stretch when injuries occured so if Edmonton wanted to they could pair up Nugent Hopkins and Eberle on line 3 which Oilers fans would probably love to see if Sam Gagner and Zach Storini play line 2.
I hope Zach isn't Googling himself and getting his hopes up.
On 36: he showed well but it was a great idea to let him start in the A and another 20-25 games to start the 2012 season wouldn't be a bad idea but we're so thin in what he brings that I don't think the Oilers will send him back. Right now I'd say he's a great candidate to be one of those 15 and 30 guys who can also be a plus player playing against top six guys. We used to have lots of guys like that in the old MGM line plus Murray etc etc. Cleary was on his way there as well. And speaking of Cleary he's a guy who can't power his own line but who's great when you give him one really good player to play with. I hope 36 could get that far but as it is a 15 and 30 guy who also can wear down D and eat clock with a good forecheck is fine by me.
ReplyDeleteJoel ward is another guy like that.
On the Dys: things began to turn around for the Dys in the two days off between G5 and G6 of the Hawks series. It was at that point that they put Burrowns and Raymond back with Kesler and the big centre's been going ever since. Sure, the Sedins aren't going but they're PP's chipping in and their PK's been great.
As much as I want to hate on them they've controlled the play in five of their last six playoff games and in four of those only lost or went to OT because of cheap goals against.
SJ has three lines going but Van wins in the netminding and D department so that's the West.
TB has some nice depth up front but what about that D? and Roli would have to be amazing for the entire run; no two games lapses or they're fucked.
Boston has all kinds of depth but they're fragile for some reason.
In any case, I think it's the Dys cup to win but Kesler would need some Sedins help in the next round or three and with Samuelsson nursing a bad ad strain and Torres and Hansen having disappeared, obviously those two lines are gonna have to bring it.
My favourite was one I came across today that said the Oilers would take RNH, but noted that they might consider Landeskog due to our depth at C (Horcoff, Gagner, Brule and Eberle) and because at RW "besides Hemsky and Zach Storini they got nothing."
ReplyDeleteGeez - just how many blogs does Bruce contribute to?
Baby Let Me Follow You Down... to the minors when the Oilers give Jacques yet another shot.
ReplyDelete@Bill Needle: Why give up on JFJ now? In another 3 or 4 years he could be the next Brad Winchester.
ReplyDeleteJust saw the Eberle shootout goal... sweet deke city. Gagner's moves with finish and Eb's own trademark edges.
ReplyDeleteDid Bergeron end up coming back to the game? That's a huge blow to Boston if he's concussed. Leads their team in points.
ReplyDelete@Ribs...Bergeron headed straight to the room and never came back.On CBC they were already talking about Seguin getting in.
ReplyDeleteMPS-Horcoff-Eberle
ReplyDeleteHall-Gagner-Hemsky
Hartikainen-Lander-Omark
xxx-XXX-Cogliano
Whitney-XXX
smid-Gilbert
peckham-Petry
Foster
Ducey Lander and Omark are not terrible.
I'm going to hold off on proclaiming Lander "not terrible" until he plays at least one professional hockey game in North America.
ReplyDelete(Not that terrible guys usually do well in the SEL, but we're talking about a player virtually none of us have ever seen play, who we can judge only by scouting reports and by the stats available in the SEL.)
This is about as solid as a cancun turd, but I admit to being happy when Jamie Lundmark tweeted that Lander is the best young player hes ever played with, and Edmonton fans should be very excited. Said he's NHL ready.
ReplyDeleteDennis,
ReplyDeleteVan hasn't played a team as good as SJS.
Their top 3 forwards lines are very good, best in the NHL.
I agree than Van has the edge on D, but I think SJS has the edge in forwards and that goal is a wash. (if not a slight edge for SJS)
VAN D haven't played against a forward crew like SJS yet.
I like SJS.
My picks before that playoffs started (PDO can confirm) was SJS over VAN in WCF, and WAS over BOS in ECF. I had SJS over WAS in SCF.
re: Sedins
ReplyDeleteOn Wednesday Principe tweeted the following:
"GenePrincipe Gene Principe
Denis Potvin brutally honest about Sedins on Hockey Central..discussing slump they're in he said they can't skate or skate well enough.."
Well, I don't mean to call out a hall of famer in Potvin, but when each twin wins the scoring race in the past two seasons, I don't think you can say they don't skate well enough. Seems a bit of a harsh comment.
Now if you want to say it is gut check time and they need to fight through checks and work harder, I can buy that.
Everyone: bitching about Potvin. watch all his Segments. He is what we ask for from MSM and he allways nails it. He is the anti Mcguire.
ReplyDeleteI mean he Allllways gets it correct.
What he thinks of Kaberle is my Favorite.
ReplyDeleteTo Paraphrase: Boston should have known what they were getting.
A weak defensive dman 9steped up this year)reliant on feeding the big shot off the point.(McCabe, ETC.) Benefits from 2nd assists. When you take his two options away he is unproductive.
Generates points off good breakout pass. Takes risk driving into offensive zone. Yeilds more than he gets.
They should have never expected him to improve the PP.
Potvin has the voice and he also has excellent delivery and that's rare for a former player.
ReplyDeleteI remember reading about there being a school where guys go to prep for these jobs; I think Glenn Anderson did it but he must have given up on it.
WG: did you bet those picks?
Hartikainen is the reason we should have kept Thoresen. Scandinavian unity.
ReplyDeleteEberle whips Conklin and Roloson is playing with Bergeron.
Couturier is the centre. We TRADE for defencemen.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteor RNH. well, maybe Larsson...
ReplyDelete