The Khabibulin signing was too long by double and has backfired as expected; the only positive I can think of is that putting #35 in 47 games is an instant L and enough of those put you in the lottery.
At some level, in the bowels of the Oiler offices, someone is cursing an Arizona lawyer. Surely.
Nikolai Khabibulin 10-11
- Boxcars: 47gp, 3.40
- SP: .890
- WLT: 10-32-4
- SP clear of backup: backup G was 26 points clear of NK
- What do these numbers tell us? He appears done. At 38 years of age, having played over 800 games at a high level, Nikolai Khabibulin's ability to stop pucks in the NHL has left him. One doubts he can get it back for an extended period, let alone a season. Then there's the health issue and the other thing.
- How do you know he's done? Plenty of indicators have us leaning that way. His SP was 45th out of 47 "regulars" this season (he beat bruiser Rick DiPietro and Ty "2006 G1" Conklin) and 71st among 87 goalies overall. He's in the very spot on these lists where goalers are sent away.
- Good grief. LOTS of old goalies are still in the league. He'll recover. You mean like Tim Thomas? Thomas has enjoyed seasons of .933, .915 and .938 the last three seasons. Khabibulin's last three seasons? .919, .909 and .890. To quote Planes, Trains and Automobiles he's "going the wrong way."
- I was thinking more like Glenn Hall. Glenn Hall's final three seasons (beginning at age 37) saw him post .928, .904 and .917. Those were glorious numbers for his time. Old goalies with mediocre numbers get sent away, as do old goalies with horrible numbers.
- Yeah, but Khabibulin had to backstop a horrible team. As Did Devan Dubnyk. The rookie outclassed the veteran and it wasn't close.
- Are you seriously suggesting Dubnyk is a better goaltender bet moving forward? God yes. DD had a solid debut; we shouldn't start talking about an impact player or anything but there's a chance this guy will have a career as a regular. He should start the bulk of 11-12 games for the Oilers.
- You know, everyone piles on Khabibulin. Roloson signed a contract with Edmonton and lost his job! In 07-08, Roloson and Garon played about the same (Garon played a little more). Comparing Roloson's performance after his 2006 contract and Khabibulin's Oiler deal is a non-starter.
- Can he save this contract? Age, performance and injury history would suggest the answer is no.
- What is the ideal exit strategy? In a perfect world the Oilers would be able to place him on an unable to play list due to the Arizona legal issues. That's pretty cold, but facts are facts and not playing Khabibulin is a better plan than playing him.
- Flush NK and replace him with Dubnyk, and ? Oilers have been rumored to be asking after Viktor Fasth and I think they'll probably sign someone along those lines.
- Nikolai Khabibulin is going to make you look silly next year. Hope so, always liked him.
Prediction for 2010-11: 24gp, 3.00 .906
Actual 2010: 47gp, 3.40 .890
Not exactly as planned
I don't mean this in a sarcastic way at all, so don't take it as such.
ReplyDeleteDo you still try to defend the signing of Khabibulin with your "like the player" think?
Whoa, this is where the story gets all ugly. I'm still debating whether fatigue or old age did Habby in. He faced a lot of shots early and looked old in the end. So probably a little of both. Time to bring in some competion here and actually make it a competition, because if last year was a competition, Gerber should have played 60 games.
ReplyDeleteI've always said "liked the player, not the money or term." No change there.
ReplyDeleteTBH, I don't think Dubnyk is anymore than Jussi Markkanen at this point. Until he can prove that he can consistantly put together great strings of games in a row, he'll be nothing more than a Garon or a Markkanen.
ReplyDeleteI'm worried anybody tending twine for the Oilers though, with the amount of shots this team gives up, its like facing a firing squad day after day. I would think that would be quite taxing on anyone.
Danger: Harsh. He was an average NHL goalie this year. And he's 23?
ReplyDeleteLowetide said...
ReplyDeleteI've always said "liked the player, not the money or term." No change there.
Why?
His best before date was a long time ago.
Limburger.
DSF: Oh, agreed. But it's like any player, you always wonder what it would be like for him to be an Oiler (or Bruin or Canuck).
ReplyDeleteWhen I was a kid, I always hoped Frank Mahovlich would play for the Bruins. Or Gilbert Perreault as an Oiler.
That kind of thing. Believe me, I'm not holding out any hope for him as an Oiler but was a fan of his over the years.
Lowetide said...
ReplyDeleteDSF: Oh, agreed. But it's like any player, you always wonder what it would be like for him to be an Oiler (or Bruin or Canuck).
When I was a kid, I always hoped Frank Mahovlich would play for the Bruins. Or Gilbert Perreault as an Oiler.
That kind of thing. Believe me, I'm not holding out any hope for him as an Oiler but was a fan of his over the years."
You have to try and get them before their limbs start falling off :)
lol. True. We'll probably get Luongo in 2025.
ReplyDeleteLowetide said...
ReplyDeletelol. True. We'll probably get Luongo in 2025.
That may be more accurate than you think...although I expect he'll be back in Florida in a year or two if Vancouver wins the cup.
His wife and children still live there.
MVP! MVP!
ReplyDeleteI was kind of hoping you would post Souray and his Dylan equivalent.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the latest on the tent city situation? Last I heard his lawyer managed to delay the trial or something. Any idea when he will go to court?
ReplyDeleteMaybe, if the Jets come back, they'll take him off our hands for nostalgia's sake? One can hope!
ReplyDeleteHow about those Canucks?
ReplyDelete: p
Well, you know, at least Khabibulin was an upgrade over the bum he was replacing. I mean, there's no way we could've offered a 2-year deal to an aging netminder like Roloson. Better to offer a 4-year deal to an aging netminder like Khabibulin. I wonder whatever happened to Roloson anyways?
ReplyDeleteI keep hoping Khabibulin can turn it around, but it's obvious he'd have trouble backstopping a beer league team at this point. Too bad. Hoped for a better fate for one of the last remaining Jets, and a guy who ended Calgary's Cup runs on more than one occasion.
ReplyDeleteWhat gets me about this signing is how much management still tries to justify it. They absolutely refuse to admit they made a mistake here, that the player can retrieve past performance and contribute next year.
ReplyDeleteNot to beat a dead horse but if you saw his trend in Chicago it was easy to predict what was going to happen here (as many on this blog have).
This team has 3 major issues heading into 2011-12: Goal, blue and PK. If nothing is done to adequately address them I don't see how anyone can expect more than marginal improvement next season.
I'd be pleasantly shocked if they sent him away before the fall but won't believe it til I see it.
Did they not sign him so they could help lure guys like Heatley etc. Hey look at us, we have a legitimate cup winning NHL goalie. The 4 year term is just brutal IMO.
ReplyDeleteWhy aren't they re-signing Gerber if they want another decent goalie along with Dubnyk?
ReplyDeleteI'd be all for them doing what's required to get Bernier (or equivalent), and i dont mind this Fasth idea, but why is Gerber a non-starter?
Rich: there's no way management is going to admit it's a bad move while he's on the roster. No point adding insult and de-motivation to Khabby's other problems.
ReplyDeleteIf they won't admit the error after he's gone, then you can call it hubris or ignorance.
Cactus - they had a chance when they finally realized they needed to blow the thing up to say we should have gone in a different direction.
ReplyDeleteInstead, they called him the MVP. I understand, why but when the window is opened to admitting that it's time to press the reset button you might as well come clean.
Now, they have a chance to say something along the lines that it's not worked out the way we thought (for whatever reason). They could do something - buyout, bury in the minors this summer or take an even harder line given his legal issues.
Something that would show the fanbase that winning and accountability are going to be important moving forward.
LMHF#1,
ReplyDeleteThey still may sign Gerber.
They are looking to sign a goalie to mentor Roy in OKC and be a decent call up when MVP gets hurt. (I set the O/U at 15 starts)
Gerber is luke-warm to the idea of playing mostly in the AHL again.
If Gerber doesn't get better offers he may re-sign if the Oilers don't sign a Fasth type.
Let us not forget that two key Oiler talking heads, Stauffer and Kevin Quinn both agree that MVP did not lose the starting job.
Lowe are Tambellini are not as humble as Steve Yz. They are loathe to admit mistakes and correct them.
If Lowe and Tambellini ran TBY I bet they would have said in the end of season presser (after missing the playoffs):
"Dan Ellis was our MVP, we believe in him and it up to us to bring in the right culture around him. Did we want to make the playoffs? Of course, but re-building takes time and we want to do it right"
Steve Yz recognizes his mistake, corrects it quickly and his team is one win away from the SCF.
Lowe had his "moment of clarity" when he realized that his way of building the team had them finish 30th while spending to the cap.
It seems that he needed an outside person/persons to help him realize his ideas were wrong.
Now that they are on the slash and burn rebuild model, I expect the same obstinance in regards to their "new model".
This is the way things are done and they will not even think of second guessing themselves or examine if their ideas are working.
I can sum up their thinking in one sentence:
"Nick is our MVP"
Now, they have a chance to say something along the lines that it's not worked out the way we thought (for whatever reason). They could do something - buyout, bury in the minors this summer or take an even harder line given his legal issues.
ReplyDeleteSomething that would show the fanbase that winning and accountability are going to be important moving forward.
Very well put sir.
Rich: I'm with you, if (and only if) they buy out Khabby or stick him in the minors. Ideally, this move should be supplemented with at least one top 4 defence and a couple bottom 6 forwards. In that case, management would be beholden to admit they had screwed up.
ReplyDeleteIf, however, they're bring Khabibulin to camp with the intention of having him as one of the top 2, then it makes absolutely no sense to undercut him to the media. Do as much to build up his confidence and pray for all your might that he might have a miraculous resurgence.
I'd prefer the first scenario, but we'll see in just over a month if pessimism will be confirmed.
I'll admit I didn't mind the signing, just thought it was 1 or 2 years too long at the time. Turns out it was 3 years too long.
ReplyDeleteHe's had a good career, time to bury him.
Your 2011 opening night starting goaltender: NK regardless of how the preseason goes. What a bunch of baffoons.
The whole damn thing makes me sick!
ReplyDeleteWG - Gerber shouldn't have played in the A last year and shouldn't if he signs with us this year. It should be an irrelevant point; that it isn't speaks badly on the organization.
ReplyDeleteIs it possible that now that the arena deal is done-ish, they're going to get on with playing something resembling hockey?
Also, I fail to see the point of listening to Stauffer. He follows "the rules" just like every other media-type for some reason. He's higher quality than Gregor of course, but he doesn't really SAY anything particularly challenging or hockey-knowledge-based...I think there's been too much emphasis on the media aspect and too little on the sports basis in the industry as a whole. Even when they do pick people who know sports, they pick guys who are good for a quip, not analysis.
Terry Jones on Doug Weight's retirement
ReplyDeleteAnd I'd bet my last nickel that NK will be at training camp with Foster,Brule and Fraser.The Oilers just don't make moves that clear out bad players and bring in good players-the org is displaying "patience" and "discipline" by retaining these players.
mandishe-there is a sex in the city joke in there somewhere
LMHF,
ReplyDeleteBoth Stauffer and K. Quinn cahs cheques with an Oiler logo.*
When they talk you can see Lowe and Tambellini's mouth moving.
The only time I recall Lowe ever admitting a mistake was when he figures he may have been a little bit stubborn with Mike Comrie.
ReplyDeleteThe EIG wanted to turf the guy but all the Oiler cronies like Nicholls threatened to quit. I was kind of hoping a guy like Katz would take a firehose and clean out filth in the organization but he seems to love them.
The only time I recall Lowe ever admitting a mistake was when he figures he may have been a little bit stubborn with Mike Comrie.
ReplyDeleteHe did 'fess to regretting not making Pronger stew and trading Smytty. When you've made as many mistakes as that guy, you pretty much have to accept some of the responsibility at some point.
Of course, it'd be better if he didn't keep fucking up in the first place.
I've always respected Lowe for owning up to his mistakes, myself. He admitted he should have handled the Smyth deal differently as well as the Pronger debacle.
ReplyDeleteThere is a common theme in the Smyth, Pronger and Comrie mea cuplas.
ReplyDeleteThey all come long after the fact.
The barn has burnt and the horse is gone.
The new barn is burning in spots (goal, D, 3C) and Lowe grabs marshmallows and sings Kumbaya.
With all his mea cupla's you'd think he would have learned to deal with issues betters as they arise.
Nope.
Nik hasn't lost the #1 job according to guys with the logo on the paycheck.
I can't wait until 2016 when Lowe give a mea cupla for this one.
Meanwhile Yz quietly improves his team with every move, and if he smells smoke the fire is put out.
I like what Yzerman has been doing as well, but it's a bit early to say he's Super-Awesome GM Man. Lowe put out some fires of his own back when he started.
ReplyDeleteThe Souray saga is still smoldering but Lowe has grabbed some cocoa to go with those marshmallows.
ReplyDeleteWho wants smores..?
Nik hasn't lost his starting job because we're going to deal the FORMER STANLEY CUP WINNING GOALTENDER who is our MVP to the Philadelphia Flyers for Jeff Carter.
ReplyDeleteIt all makes sense.
They won't admit he's awful because they need to keep some positives adjectives around him so we can deal him for value.
There's no way this management group is dumb enough to think Khabibulin is still a legitimate goalie in this league; never mind a starter.
Right?
Cough.
Bruce Dowbiggin has an interesting take on one path Gillis has used to choose his players. If you go to the bottom, Dowbiggin posits that the Canucks have a larger group of 'smart' hockey players who are willing to adapt and be flexible in their view of hockey, as part of the reason for their success. Like or hate the Canucks, it is an interesting theory.
ReplyDeletepartri - a gathering for those with speech impediments
Again.
ReplyDeleteBuy him out?
I don't think anyone's saying Yzerman is SUPERGM, but what they are saying is that simple application of logic without the BS excuses leads to measurable results that don't require strokes of genius.
ReplyDeleteDon't know about the IQ of the Canucks players but would question that of Mr Dowbiggin.
ReplyDeleteThe Canucks have better players in their prime. Full stop. Raffi Torres isn't exactly a MENSA member, but he hits like a Son of a B. Whats more important?
Its the old media crap - winners suddenly take on all kinds of extra traits that were not there a year ago.
As for the tenders, I am not ready to write off Bulin after just about his worst season, and say DD is the #1 after his best save % in professional hockey.
Bulin is old, but he is not that old, and we see goalies go up and down all the time.
I would not be surprised to see Bulins save % go up 20pts and DD's drop by 20pts this season. (Although think the latter happening has a higher chance of happening than the former)
As for Bulin, it won't come as a surprise to anyone ;-), but I'd like to see him back for another year. He is the best guy to secure another lottery pick. A DD/Fasth combo would likely do the same, but their confidence would be destroyed in the process. Bulin is the guy to take the brunt of the kids learning their lessons.
DD may someday be a #1 but it will take a while. If he gets thrown to the wolves this season for 50 games I think he could take a big, and possibly permanent step backwards.
How is it that so many people can recognize that this was and remains a terrible signing, and yet there is nothing done about it?
ReplyDelete1 - Both management and ownership are terrible at evaluating their staff.
2 - The move was made/is seen as a deliberate strategy to tank the team and get some great players through the draft.
3 - Moreau and Staois gave the Nik those pictures of Kevin Lowe and the sheep that are out on his acreage.
What bothers me most about it is being lied to. It's clear he was never the MVP, and them saying so is just gauling. How do you build a winning tradition when its founded on giant lies like "He was our MVP", and "we're going to be competitive" when you have a dearth of capable NHL veterans and 2 top 4 Dmen?
I'm a gardener, so I understand that bullshit is great for helping seeds grow, but I also know that too much burns the seeds and roots, and kills the plants. It's clear the there are a lot of smart players here who have a lot of self respect and integrity - how long till they get sick of it?
Dowbiggin may or may not be off the mark with his comments on the Canucks, but if you ever get the chance, I highly recommend his book Money Players. One of the best hockey books I've ever read and I've read a fair few.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.amazon.com/Money-Players-Amazing-Goodenow-Association/dp/1552638103/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1306529651&sr=8-5
My choice for ReKhab's Dylan song: Obviously Five Believers, from Blonde on Blonde.
ReplyDeleteReKhab's five believers? Tambellini, Lowe, Stauffer, Quinn and Renney. Nary a clue among them.
Pretty much everyone else gave up on ReKhab the second he flubbed that goal against Calgary in the first game of last season, his first with Edmonton.
The non-believers most likely would sing, One More Cup of Coffee (Preferably in the Minors).
Like his conclusions or not, you can't dispute Dowbiggin's ability to think deeply about what he talks about. I would be cautious about calling him dumb. If you read what he wrote, then you would understand my point better.
ReplyDeletelumbapop - one of JFJ's many ailments
I have long enjoyed this blog not only for LT's valuable insights (not to mention his peerless wit!) but also for the fantastic discussions amongst so many learned fans. With that said, I think a few people here need to take a deep breath because the anger and the hurt is threatening to swallow up the usual rationality.
ReplyDeleteI understand that hurt - we all love the Oilers and we want to see them win. The losing gets old, fast, and some of it is clearly rooted in poor player management and acquisitions. However, that doesn't mean that Lowe/Tambellini are the devil, nor does it mean that everything they do is born out of their alleged "outrageous stupidity" (at the very least, they got 2005-06 right and the Staios deal!).
Was the Khabibulin deal a mistake? Sure, based on the original criteria that it was a signing that would make the Oilers more competitive. Does it serve any purpose (other than personal catharsis for sceptical Oilers fans) to admit this while he's still on the roster? Absolutely not. How many of us would show up to work and give it our all if our boss told our family, friends and coworkers that bringing one of us in was a huge mistake?
There's a similar logic behind the MVP comment that people still love to quote. Too many seem to use it as evidence that Oil management is stupid and out of touch. I see it as an effective management strategy that was worth trying. In a terrible season with few bright spots, why not try to pump up your goalie who, aside from his own failings, is being left to the wolves by the league's worst defence? Best case scenario, it helps to motivate a turnaround next season. This clearly didn't occur, but it's a reasonable attempt.
So what should Khabibulin's role be moving forward? He was clearly of some use last year in helping to secure the #1 pick, but there is understandable reluctance in doing the same next year as well. As I've stated earlier, if the Oilers are willing to make some of the moves necessary to be a more complete and competitive team (at least one top 4 D and two bottom 6 forwards, including one centre), then a Bulin buyout/demotion makes sense. If, as Ducey suggests, they're looking for another bottom finish, then why not keep him around?
One final thought, while we're all playing armchair GM here, Katz is still paying real money for these players. At some point (especially after Souray), lighting millions on fire gets tiresome and he may want coaching and management to work with Khabby as opposed to buying him out.
these posts make me yearn for the top 20 prospects. hope springs eternal and reality of this team is not so kind
ReplyDeleteThank you Cactus. I was thinking, word for word, surprisingly, what you said there.
ReplyDeletealso my word verification is "fulin"
Roli has been playing pretty damn good this game. I hope he can keep it up for a win tonight a 4 more over the next few weeks.
ReplyDeleteWas the Khabibulin deal a mistake? Sure, based on the original criteria that it was a signing that would make the Oilers more competitive. Does it serve any purpose (other than personal catharsis for sceptical Oilers fans) to admit this while he's still on the roster? Absolutely not. How many of us would show up to work and give it our all if our boss told our family, friends and coworkers that bringing one of us in was a huge mistake?
ReplyDeleteIn the real world people get laid off and get treated like shit all the time. And in many cases we deserve the abuse far less the Khabibulin does.
He hurts the team by being on it. Flushing him so the other 21 guys have a chance at winning shouldn't be seen as a bad thing.
I have to admit that I want Tampa to win. However, the thought of Chara dolling out punishment to Kesler and the sisters is appealing. Not that I think Boston or Tampa can stop Vancouver.
ReplyDeleteTampa let Roloson down. The guy played his heart out for them.
ReplyDeleteDa Broons!!!!
ReplyDeleteRoloson on the bench at the end of the game is just heartbreaking. Poor bugger.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if he doesn't try one more year.
Where are the streamers?
ReplyDeleteBoston will wait for the Stanley. Man, this is going to be a fun final.
ReplyDeleteIt's been fun watching Seguin play some real NHL games here with real minutes. He played ten seconds more than Horton tonight and led his team with 6 shots. Impressive stuff.
ReplyDeleteI do still get the feeling that Hall would do more if given the chance, though. It's somewhat reassuring. I just hope that he does get that chance (soon, please).
Too bad Roli didn't make the finals...likely his last chance.
ReplyDeleteBruins won't be able to handle the Canucks speed.
Yeah. We should just give them the Cup. I do think Vancouver should win the Stanley, though.
ReplyDelete@Ribs
ReplyDeleteHorton missed a big chunk of the first with an injury.Shoulder?
Cactus,
ReplyDeleteYour thoughts are sane and lucid thoughts.
Those are also two words I wouldn't use to describe the Khabby signing.
No one expects them to throw Khabby under the bus, but this org throws a lot of trials balloons through both print and radio, and nothing but praise is coming from the org.
Stupid is as stupid does. Aside from drafting, so far its stupid does.
If they start to make quality moves I'll be the first to cheer.
But I also know that the same guys who spent to the cap and finished 30th are still running the team.
They have little track record in the last 5 years to point to and say "they know what they are doing"
I'm not from Missouri, but they will have to show me first.
Everyone except MBS hasn't done anything to inspire confidence.
Woodguy said...
ReplyDeleteCactus,
Your thoughts are sane and lucid thoughts.
Those are also two words I wouldn't use to describe the Khabby signing.
No one expects them to throw Khabby under the bus, but this org throws a lot of trials balloons through both print and radio, and nothing but praise is coming from the org.
Stupid is as stupid does. Aside from drafting, so far its stupid does.
If they start to make quality moves I'll be the first to cheer.
But I also know that the same guys who spent to the cap and finished 30th are still running the team.
They have little track record in the last 5 years to point to and say "they know what they are doing"
I'm not from Missouri, but they will have to show me first.
Everyone except MBS hasn't done anything to inspire confidence.
And you're suffering from premature ejaculation on the MBS picks.
Which Oiler pick, who wasn't an a no brainer, (Hall, Eberle MPS)
has performed IN THE NHL above expectation?
I think the answer is none.
If Lucic (who is overrated and overpaid) does his best Dustin Byfugelijjksdlibon impression it would help the B's chances a lot.
ReplyDeleteLOLongo seems to get flustered by those types of tactics and Lucic will have to play pissed off from start to finish.
The B's have some big forwards, if they do what the Sharks couldn't do with any regularity, get it and pound the D on the forecheck, that would help too.
Godzilla playing 30 minutes a game will also help.
I still think the Dys *spits* take it, but it won't be the walk everyone thinks it will be.
Hopefully the Dys *spits* are over confident too.
Go Boston!!!!
Which Oiler pick, who wasn't an a no brainer, (Hall, Eberle MPS)
ReplyDeletehas performed IN THE NHL above expectation?
I think the answer is none.
Which Oiler pick, who wasn't a no brainer (Hall, Eberle, MPS) has PLAYED IN THE NHL at all???
MBS's picks are tracking well.
hockeyguy10 - True enough. I did kind of forget about that. Both of them got close to fifteen minutes, though. That's some quality ice time.
ReplyDeletetwitics - Really? If I were popular I bet I could get that to trend quickly.
Oh great... We get to watch either Colin Campbell's son win the Stanley, or Steve Tambellini's.
ReplyDeleteI realize that shouldn't be a big deal, but I find either outcome increasingly annoying.
Verification word: Conks (wrong Stanley cup finals)
Woodguy said...
ReplyDeleteWhich Oiler pick, who wasn't an a no brainer, (Hall, Eberle MPS)
has performed IN THE NHL above expectation?
I think the answer is none.
Which Oiler pick, who wasn't a no brainer (Hall, Eberle, MPS) has PLAYED IN THE NHL at all???
MBS's picks are tracking well."
So are everyone else's.
So what?
Nothing matters much until the y play in the show.
That should read "MBS' pick"
ReplyDeleteHere are MBS' picks as head scout:
2008
Eberle
Motin
Cornet
Hartikainen
Bendfeld
2009
MPS
Lander
Hesketh
Abney
Bigos
Rajala
Roy
2010
Hall
Pitlick
Marincin
Hamilton
Martindale
Blain
Bunz
Davidson
Czerwonka
Pelss
Jones
All 3 first rounders look like Real NHLers.
Hartikainen looks like a player.
Lander looks like a player.
Roy has an outside shot.
Pitlick has a very good chance.
Marincin has a very good chance.
Hamilton looks like a player.
Martindale has an outside chance.
Blain has an outside chance.
Bunz has a reasonable chance.
Davidson might surprise everyone.
Add those to the 3 "no-brainers" and that's pretty good work in 3 years.
DSF,
ReplyDeletePretty weak stuff tonight.
I was enjoying your schtick the last few days as you made some good points.
You are not making good points now. Its just noise.
I hope the Dys *spits* lose.
Woodguy said...
ReplyDeleteDSF,
Pretty weak stuff tonight.
I was enjoying your schtick the last few days as you made some good points.
You are not making good points now. Its just noise.
Disagreeing with you has always been considered "noise".
Doen't make it so.
Every team in the league has a list like the one you created.
Means nothing until they show up and produce.
I'm thinking Petry and Hartikainen look like real NHL players at this point.
The jury is still out on the rest.
Every team in the league has a list like the one you created.
ReplyDelete... Except the Flames. >:)
Every team in the league has a list like the one you created
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers have an above average prospect pool. Even someone who hates the Oilers has to admit this. This prospect pool has been largely assembeled by Stu MacGregor.
The excitement over Stu's picks come from the fact that the majority of them are tracking above where they should be at this point. I don't know if I'd classify Eberle as a no-brainer, but yes deciding that Taylor Hall was the best player in last years draft class wasn't the hardest job in the world.
Lander being captain of the World Junior team and barely missing out on the WC roster gets us excited.
Marincin putting up almost a PPG in his first year in the WHL gets us excited. Curtis Hamilton playing his way onto the World Junior roster, and then forcing his way onto the first line gets us excited.
Tyler Bunz shutting down the Red Deer Rebels in the WHL playoffs gets us excited.
Later round picks aren't supposed to track this well. Are we overvaluing some of our prospects? Yes. Not all of the picks who are tracking well will play in the NHL, but the prospect pool is the lone bright spot for the fans of an organization who's history over the past 6 years has consisted of nothing but stupidity and failure.
Personally I would love to see the Canuck's prospect list and how it stacks up.
ReplyDeleteA little bit of put up or shut up.
quetrard - French for 'where is the idiot?'
@DSF
ReplyDeleteI challenge the assertion that Eberle was a "no-brainer" pick. He was a mid-late first round selection (22nd overall) in a draft where Central Scouting had him ranked as only the 33rd best North American skater. Throwing in some Europeans, that puts him at a mid-late 2nd round pick according to the scouts. Bob Mackenzie had him ranked higher at 29th overall. Still, that hardly seems like a no-brainer 22nd overall pick.
My slogan this playoff season?
ReplyDeleteF*ck the Nucks.
The fact that the Bruins rate behind only the Oilers and Blackhawks in my books, while I'd cheer for pretty much any team (including the Leafs & Flames) over the Canucks makes this an easy final to get emotionally jacked up for.
Go Bruins Go. Do it for Cam Neely.
Bar Qu,
ReplyDeleteLast month Hockey's Future ranked the Canucks as the 27th best prospect pool. The Oilers were 10th as they graduated so many players. Here is what they say about the Canucks:
Strengths: The Canucks prospect pool is headlined by Cody Hodgson, one of the few two-way forwards in a gifted group featuring offensive talents such as Anton Rodin, Sergei Shirokov, and Jordan Schroeder. A well-rounded blue line group features puck-moving options like Kevin Connauton and Patrick McNally as well as steadier types such as Chris Tanev and Yann Sauve. Eddie Lack had a breakout season in the AHL, giving the Canucks another possible option in net after Roberto Luongo and Cory Schneider. Weaknesses: There is little surefire talent up front, with most of the team's forward prospects being of the hit-or-miss variety. The system lacks an elite blueliner and depth in goal. Top 5 Prospects: 1. Cody Hodgson, C, 2. Anton Rodin, RW, 3. Sergei Shirokov, LW, 4. Jordan Schroeder, C, 5. Billy Sweatt, LW. Lost to trade: Evan Oberg.
A couple thoughts...
ReplyDeleteWoodguy: I'm not thrilled with management right now either and I would like them to show me better as well. I only felt that the tone here was trending more to angry mob than to academy (of learned fans, at least). A sweeping "pox on all their houses" is both unproductive and inaccurate. Part of my assessment is based on the fact that while 2009-10 was an unmitigated disaster (assisted, in large part by injuries), 2010-11 seemed to go according to plan. We can debate whether tanking was a good idea or not, but the fact was that it seems to have been the goal and it worked.
At this point, it's time to work on creating a foundation of winning and addressing goaltending is one step of that. Let's reconvene this discussion in about 6 weeks and see what free agency brings.
On prospects: it's pretty clear that the Oilers have a number of good prospects/young NHLers. Let's not forget that had they remained healthy, one of Hall or Eberle might have managed to win ROY. Obviously, too early to tell on many, but the trends are promising.
Disagreeing with you has always been considered "noise".
ReplyDeleteDoen't make it so.
No, I consider noise to be making suspect statements without supporting evidence.
I have changed my mind when presented an argument with evidence.
I stated that MBS seemed to be the only Oiler manager earning his paycheque.
You countered my narrative by throwing out all of the Oiler's 1st rounders in the last 3 years then make an argument that what is left isn't good because they haven't played in the NHL.
A silly argument because non-first rounders rarely play NHL games in their 18-20 year old years, and you know it.
That is why I said it was "noise"
If you would roast MBS for not taking the "no-brainers", then surely there has to be some credit for actually taking them?
Cactus,
ReplyDeleteWhat the hell am I supposed to do with these pitchforks and kerosene soaked torches now?
Woodguy:
ReplyDeleteI hear the Canucks are in the Cup finals. I can't think of an event that would benefit more from the appearance of a good mob.