The Calgary Flames have enjoyed an exceptional run since flushing a Sutter earlier this season. I would argue that no matter the outcome, the Flames showed some real gumption down the stretch and the veteran hands will return (for the most part) intact for the fall.
The Flames roster shows the value of actual NHL players. Despite advanced years, the Flames had the wherewithal to dig themselves out of the basement and give themselves a chance.
I don't know that they'll win a playoff spot but many of the impact players on the Flames are 30 or more:
- (37) Steve Staios
- (36) Freddie Modin
- (35) Brendan Morrison
- (34) Miika Kiprusoff, Daymond Langkow
- (33) Jarome Iginla
- (32) Ollie Jokinen, Tom Kostopolous, Ales Kotalik, Raitis Ivanans, Cory Sarich
- (31) Niklas Hagman, Alex Tanguay
- (30) Robyn Regehr
- (38) Nikolai Khabibulin
- (36) Martin Gerber
- (35) Jason Strudwick
- (32) Shawn Horcoff
- (30) Steve MacIntrye, Jim Vandermeer
- Whitney-Gilbert
- Hejda-Petry
- Grebeshkov-Smid
- Peckham
Rebuilding teams don't have to just stand there waiting to be kicked in the gnads. They can account for man games lost to injury in the heat of summer. Wouldn't it be nice if we were pleasantly surprised with headlines like "youngster Peckham frustrated at not getting into starting lineup?"
It would be a good thing.
Well, just my opinion, but I doubt that the Oilers will ship out Foster, and I doubt if they're going to go after former Oilers d-men, either. What you see is what you get.
ReplyDeleteAlso if recent history is an indicator, the indecision/angst over exposing JFJ and JDD to waivers would indicate that Chorney breaks camp with the Oilers and won't be going anywhere anytime soon, till Tambellini's hand is absolutely forced.
ReplyDeleteOk, does anyone recall in 2002 when the Flames came into Edmonton and Roman Turek pitched a 2-0 shutout in game 81 of the season to officially kill the Oilers playoff hopes?
ReplyDeleteAnd does anyone know the expression "payback's a bitch"? By my math, the Flames would be toast with a regulation win by the Oil tonight....
One could only hope what's left of the team has it in them. But we're probably starting ReKhab, so I'm not about to get my hopes up.
Regher would look nice in Oiler Blue! Rumours have abounded that he was shopped all last summer and early on this year. Calgary is facing a crunch and Tambo has shown he's willing to trade with the God-less Flames. Would a Cogs + 2012 2nd be enough? Calgary gets some desperately needed speed and a draft pick to help them reload.
ReplyDeleteI would love for Edmonton to acquire Regehr, but I doubt Feaster makes the same mistakes Sutter tried to.
ReplyDeleteMaybe I'm nuts, but aren't the Flames in the worst possible position for an NHL team?
ReplyDeleteThey're old, capped out, not making the playoffs, don't have much in the way of prospects, and will have only 1 pick (mid first-rounder) in the first 3 rounds of this draft.
Seems like drastic changes will be essential this summer.
There are worse places to be than 30th.
I'd be shocked if VDV isn't on the opening day roster next year for his faceoff ability alone.
ReplyDeleteThree times last night I counted him winning a clean draw followed immediately by the Oilers rushing it up the ice and getting a scoring chance.
Puck possession is a wonderful thing.
CF: You'd think "drastic changes" are called for but Calgary's in a very difficult position because you don't know whether the last 35 games have been real and can be sustained next year or are a mirage. Feaster has some very difficult decisions to make (if he's made the full-time GM).
ReplyDeleteIt would be really nice to see the Oil pickup at least one vet d-man this summer to help out. And also be nice to see them pick-up at least one more vet forward (that elusive 3C) to help on the PK.
The play of the kids has at times been frustrating and exhilirating (as LT pretty much said at the start of the season), but for this roster moving forward, my sense is that we need to have better balance in the fall as it's too weighted towards kids. Their won't be linear growth, some will take a step back - so balance the roster with a couple of tweeks.
And while 3.0 and Vish over-value some picks, I'm not convinced Chorney would not clear waivers in the end. Of course it would be better for all if he forced everyone's hand by making a strong showing this fall.
LT: As in response to the Hedman/Larsson comparison last post here they are:
ReplyDeleteHedman:
2007-08 Modo Hockey Ornskoldsvik SEL 39 2 2 4 + 1
2008-09 Modo Hockey Ornskoldsvik SEL 43 7 14 21 + 21
Larsson:
2009-10 Skelleftea HC SEL 49 4 13 17 -7
2010-11 Skelleftea HC SEL 37 1 8 9 12
As for the PP arguement, I don't buy it. There's enough place for 2 defensemans on a 1st PP. No reason for Larsson not to be there. Especially the ''concentrating on being shutdown'' bullshit.
Being a N1 PP guy never empeached Pronger from being shutdown. Neither did they just ''give Rundblad cherry minutes''.
He fucking gased Larsson by a mile.
fpb,
ReplyDeletethen Larsson has fooled every scout very convincingly. OR, possibly, those numbers require some context and Rundblad is not all the numbers make him out to be.
volog - a vole's diary
LT,
ReplyDeleteThe other item that bodes well for the Flames standing pat is they have 10, count them 10 no movement clauses, or limited no movement or no trade clauses as per capgeek.
Add in the fact they have 18 players signed with a caphit of $55M with about $4.4M available space for next season.
That's a huge amount of no flexibility.
Truly, they have no flexibility, including that $4.4 million in cap space.
ReplyDeleteUnless my math skills are way off, Larsson has 29 points in 86 games, and Hedman has 25 points in 82 games.
ReplyDelete29 > 25
On the Oiler front, yes some veteran presence on the D is needed, but let's not forget some upfront as well. If Hemsky is traded, we are getting younger and younger and less experienced up front and that is a recipe for more losing for next season.
ReplyDeleteBar Qu: Colton Gillies fooled scouts, Kyle Chipchura fooled scouts, Nikita Alexeev fooled scouts etc.
ReplyDeleteIf it was a kid in NA who lost half his clip, we wouldn't even be talking about it.
I don't see how ''Context'' makes Skelleftea unable to play Larsson on the 1st PP.
Trying to perfect the defensive aspect of your game doesn't empeach you on the 1st PP.
No links of causality whatsoever.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteGogliano: Hedman progressed, Larsson regressed.
ReplyDeleteFPB, well that's what the Skelleftea fans all say. Rundblad is the offensive juggernaut and Larsson is the shutdown horse. So you're saying if you run a guy on the PP, PK, and EV constantly he's not going to wear down? Saving him for EV and PK time if he's the best option and you have a PP wizard doesn't make sense?
ReplyDeleteThey play Larsson on the 2nd PP and not a lot in offensive situations (apparently last season he had been fairly sheltered) and have him focusing on taking care of his own end with lots of EV time. He's freaking leading his team in ATOI in the playoffs as an 18 year old. If Rundblad is the all world defenseman who isn't being fed a steady diet of offensive minutes, why wouldn't he be leading his team in ice-time?
The -7 last season to the +12 this season seems to jive with Larsson being much better in his own end. Also Pronger wasn't born into the world kicking ass, and wasn't exactly destroying the AHL and NHL as an 18 year old. Pronger became the Pronger we know now after a development period.
Also from your points metric, note that Pronger 'regressed' after his first season in the NHL in both points and +/- in both his 2nd and 3rd seasons while he struggled to find the range.
We get your whole Couturier bias. Some of us happen to have a Larsson bias. I don't exactly think quality of minutes against and situation play BS, maybe you do though.
Well that's what I'm going to try and find out. We know Larsson had an injury and that probably contributed to his down offensive season.
ReplyDeleteFPB's opinion aside, I think we need to find out the facts. DID LARSSON play less on the PP this season than last year? If so, how much less? What is the difference between the two seasons at even strength?
We know his minutes, I can check the boxscores for PP's, PK and EN goals. That's where we'll find our answers.
@itsaleaf,
ReplyDeleteO'Marra was 56% last night and Vande was 50%. Cogs was 45%.
I believe winning draws does help and makes a difference.
Calling many of those over-30's on the Flames "impact players" is a vast overstatement.
ReplyDeleteMorrison, Kipper, Jokinen, Tanguay, and Regher have had simply OK years, Iginla is Iginla, and the rest are a group of guys who have been either out all year, healthy scratches most the year, vastly underachieving, and even waived and sent to the AHL.
LT, normally I agree with you, but I hate that Defense.
ReplyDeleteHejda is 6th on CLB among Dmen in Rel Corsi (0.1). How is he any better than say, Jim Vandermeer?
I don't think that it would be a good thing to have Teddy Peckman struggling to get into the lineup. Its a rebuild. You play your kids. Peckham needs all the icetime he can get so that he can develop and be his best in a few years.
Plus that defense core is some kind of soft.
I think it will be:
Whitney - Gilbert
Smid- Petry
Chorney - Peckham
Vandermeer
Next year is going to be about development. You don't trade Penner (and possibly Hemsky) and then block your young players from playing.
Uni: Talking abou junior seasons there. Pronger clearly progressed from year 1 to year 2 in the OHL.
ReplyDeleteAs for the bias. Well shit on me for talking statistical facts over ''what Skelleftea fans say''. Fuck.
Rundblad has 50 points in 55 games. That's about double the clip of Lidstrom at the same age.
And I can't remember a guy with that much points on D out of the SEL.
It's kinda clear that Rundblad formed a way better N1 option. It's not just because Larsson ''decided''.
LT, I'd love to find some detailed stats. So far all I have to go on is poorly Google translated forum posts by SEL fans and stats from HockeyLigan.se which doesn't show detailed ice-time breakdowns or PPA that I can find.
ReplyDeleteAll I know for sure is that Larsson averaged 17:35 last season, and he saw reduced ice-time in the playoffs to 16:43.
This season he's played 18:44, with a bump up to 22:50 in the playoffs.
He scored 2 PP goals last season compared to 1 PP goal (his only) this season. I'd love to see his PP assists stats.
I'll dig around when I get more time and see what I can find, hopefully there's a friendly Swede out there who can find and translate a good stats site for us.
FPB, I'm not disagreeing with the stats being a concern, but you have to take that in context. By pure scoring numbers Penner was shit his first seasons (not looking at advanced stats) under MacTavish, and Horcoff was a complete bum and useless the last few seasons (not looking at his injury issues).
ReplyDeleteAlso note that Larsson isn't playing in Juniors, he's playing in the SEL and has been since he was 17, i.e. he's playing in a good 'professional' league.
Rundblad destroyed it this year, but two things that stand out here are that he's a full 2 years older than Larsson (Rundblad scored 10 and 13 points respectively his previous 2 seasons) and that the fact remains that Larsson leads his team in ATOI for the playoffs.
Remember that Schremp absolutely crushed it his post-draft seasons, but taken in context he was a one trick pony being force fed prime ice and linemates on the Knights and wasn't the best player on his team. (Rundblad is no Schremp, I'm just using banana-hammock as an example).
Hopefully we can get a more detailed solid analysis of what's been going on with Larsson in the SEL this season. I still think he's the BPA at #1 though.
Ducey: I don't like making absolute statements but that group of defense would guarantee us another lottery next year.
ReplyDeleteUntil Whitney shows he can go 82 games, you can't count on him lasting. At some point, injury will jump up and bite this group.
While Chorney showed some improvement in his boxcars, he's a long way from being ready to be a regular 3rd pairing d-man. Teddy Peckman experienced the ups and downs of a rookie and will improve - but he's a ways from being the next Matt Greene.
I think everyone benefits from having a decent vet (or even 2) on the blue because their minutes are managed better.
And it doesn't have to be Hedja - just get us a decent vet who can eat some minutes and not drown.
Uni: My big thing with Larsson is not exactly the 9 points thing.
ReplyDeleteIt's just the major regression in that department.
I don't know a lot of players who got 50% of theyr production cut and still were considered.
As I ran before with CHL forwards (Altought not the same league/position) players who posted up lesser numbers and were excused with ''context'' simply failed miserably.
Tanks: Self explanatory
headlines like "youngster Peckham frustrated at not getting into starting lineup?"
ReplyDeleteGiven the way this year has played out, and accounting for forward development from younger prospects, I think the blue-headline we're more likely to see is; "Smid passed by Wreck'um, Pronger defaces Gretzky statue as Oilers host Flyers."
LT I like your comment that "rebuilding" teams don't have to stand and take it in the cojones.
ReplyDeleteThere is something about how Tambelowe operates that leaves me not trusting them. Or perhaps not trusting their competence, particularly regarding major trades.
Drafting first overall isn't a special skill, it's hard to balls that up. Doing it twice in a row calls competency into question. MacG has improved latter position drafting, but it remains to be seen how much of an impact those players will have in making the Oilers a champion.
I see a big difference (positive) in the team by icing NHL sized players because of injuries, even though most of the talent is gone. The Oilers penchant for undersized players worries and irks me. A few are enough, and only if they are very special like Eberle.
There is no replacement for size in a contact sport, only compensations. There is a reason why boxing has weight classes.
I lump 3 (or is it more?) consecutive years of ridiculous injuries in with management competence. No luck is that bad - something is wrong, be it system, how the players are being asked to play, or a lack of training in the do's and dont's of contact. Or in keeping glass players.
I beleive it is possible to rebuild and progress in the standings at the same time. In fact, that's how the teams that became really good did it.
Remaining terrible is the domain of the teams that did it wrong.
Until Whitney shows he can go 82 games, you can't count on him lasting.
ReplyDeleteBut he gives a fabulous interview. I'm looking forward to the offseason fireside chat with Stauffer where he declares his health A-OK. Whitney for captain. Or something like that.
I think it will be:
ReplyDeleteWhitney - Gilbert
Smid- Petry
Chorney - Peckham
Vandermeer
No,no, no no, no, no,
no, no no, no, no,
no, no no, no, no!
They wouldn't, would they?
renesin, french guy gone bad
But he gives a fabulous interview.
ReplyDeleteAnd he's younger and cheaper than Visnovsky
poode - step in it at your peril
I think it is clear that the Flyers have way too many D man making big, big coin. Next year, with no goalie and Carter getting a big raise, they will need to shed some salary.
ReplyDeleteRight now it looks like:
-Timonen NMC and 6.3 million cap hit
-Pronger 4.9 million cap hit until eternity
-Meszaros 4 million cap hit until 2014
-Matt Carle 3.4 million, UFA after next year
-Braydon Coburn 3.2 million, UFA after next year
-Matt Walker 1.7 million, buried in minors
-Oskar Barulis 0.6 mill for 3 seasons
Also, the Flyers do not have a 1st round pick
I think LA's pick++ should be used to pry Coburn out of Philly and then resigned to a long term deal. He fits the age of the rebuild and because of his lower point total, could probably sign a long term deal of 4 million per year.
I'm all for adding more veterans in the lineup, but I believe it's more about competition than just adding years. If Chorney comes into camp and is better than Steve Staios or Grebeshkov, then Chorney deserves the job.
ReplyDeleteNothing relevant to add, but...
ReplyDeletemoodi - how we may feel soon
And we can also knock the flames "outtif" the playoffs tonight with a big win. Go Oil!
ReplyDeleteAnd he's younger and cheaper than Visnovsky
ReplyDeleteYes and yes. Especially cheap when on the LTIR. Valuable to a team up against the cap which we are not.
Don't get me wrong, he's a bonafide top pairing NHL defender when healthy. I don't begrudge the trade now that I know Lowe and Tambellini had no choice but to find something for Vis after a trade was requested. The trade was a risky bet, and at this point in time, ANA wins this trade by a landslide. If you don't believe that, then consider the chances of trading Whitney for Vis (or any defender of value) right now. No one would touch Whitney.
It's not the end of the world though. Like previous posters have noted, being a GM involes placing a series of bets and hoping that more than your share come through. This one was a bit of a risky bet, and didn't work out as planned. Other, albeit less risky bets falling into that category would include Foster and Fraser.
I don't mind a little risk here and there. Had Whitney stayed healthy this would have looked a lot different, and I'm sure that is what Tamblowe were hoping for. Vis would have been a huge trading chip at the deadline this year, and I'm sure they wish they could have held Vis until then, but their hand was forced.
C'est la vie. However if we try to rationalize it in various ways to make it look like a trade that has somehow worked out in our favour, I don't think we are being honest with ourselves.
Jan Hejda is a guy I'd like to have back here too. I wouldn't push Peckham out of the lineup though.. that seems silly to me, as the whole year he's been one of our best defensemen.
ReplyDeleteWhitney for Vis was a great trade. Vis was a top 2 dman on a 30th place team last year. People really need to get a grip on his value.
ReplyDeleteNow that Whitney's had the surgery and is rested up, we'll see what we've got: a top 2 dman motivated to show what he can do, with the kids a little older and a little wiser. He also won't have to carry quite the same load he did this year, with the emergence of Petry. The man can go back to reasonable minutes a night.
cturta: a hot female turtle
LT
ReplyDeleteI agree with your article in detail. I think Hejda and Garbagekov .....(my initial nickname for him) would be good pickups and we would have a decent and balanced off/def pairings on defence.
Fact that Ducey disagrees with you reinforces my agreement. He is just more patient than I am.
I would also give Boyd Gordon a RFA contract or trade for him. Young enuf, very very good on FO and PK and could be signed for 4 years 5 mill
PS I do not want to finish in the bottom 8 anymore.
Peckham playing 50-55 games next year would not concern me
Peckham playing 50-55 games next year would not concern me
ReplyDeleteHell, 82 would be great in the right group.
How about double Montador's current salary on a two-year deal:
Whitney 4,000,000 Montador 3,100,000
Smid 1,525,000 Gilbert 4,000,000
Peckham 1,000,000 Petry 1,000,000
pringlat - a milk flavoured potato snack
What's this about Vis requesting a trade? I missed that.
ReplyDeleteTorres called on the carpet for a disciplinary hearing, per TSN.
ReplyDeleteFBV: I had a big reply ready that blogger ate. So I'll leave it at this: 9 points isn't a big regression or even a meaningful regression when you control for games played (12 fewer games is relevant!) and the basic noise in the data (we're only talking about 37 and 49 game samples, the former of which has the injury issue and the time on ice issue clouding it). In contrast, Hedman's first year was terrible by the boxcars.
ReplyDeleteIn short, we need more data.
Also, the idea of comparing it to drops in production by CHL forwards is preposterous on its face.
ReplyDeletedear Lowetide, I do have a few questions about NHL hockey in general that you would certainly be capable of tackling, though I completely understand if your reaction to them is "dear sir, please kindly stop gallavanting with Scarlett and look them the @#$$ up your @#%^ing self."
ReplyDelete1) To what extent, if any, do wingers affect a centerman's faceoff percentage at ES, PP, PK?
2) Where is there more year-to-year variance? Goals or assists? Goals for a forward or goals for a defenseman?
3) Does the NHL trump other leagues in man-games lost by star players on a year over year basis? Is this part of the "problem"?
4) You mentioned at one point that you were interested in collective a series of personal stories that coincide with great hockey moments. Maybe this is a BDHS thing or maybe it's another "spend less time in Miss Alba's rosebushes and do it yourself" thing but summer seems like an ideal time.
5) Would someone please hire me for the summer? I have a surprisingly well rounded CV for a University student who spends so much time on hockey blogs. One weakness: I worked full time from last April to this and as a result, many summer student grants don't cover me. It's quite sad, actually.
PS: Torres should rot not only for the hit but for being stupid enough to defend it at such lengths before supplemental action. Embarrassing.
What other choice do we have to improve the talent on our team other than to "take the hit" and tank it for 2-3 years and load up on blue chip young players? No high-end free agents want to come to Edmonton, so what do you expect? Kudos to Tambellini for being realistic and recognizing that fact. Do you think Brad Richards (for example) wants to sign as an unrestricted free agent to play in Edmonton? Not a chance! In my opinion, Mr. Tambellini (for the most part) is doing a good job.
ReplyDeleteNow, if we can draft Adam Larsson and package Hemsky with the other 1st rounder to get a top 5 or 6 pick we could get Huberdeau or Strome as well. That would be exceptional! Let's wait and see how this unfolds before we start attacking anyone. The magic number is 1, so if we lose against Calgary OR Colorado wins just one of their remaining games, we clinch last place. That is a must to make the pain of this season worth while. June should be exciting!
I've always thought that for 17/18 years old defensemen entering their draft eligible year, judging their talent by looking at their amount of goals and assists is a dicey proposition at best. And for those who play in a high level pro league like the SEL, fuzzing over whether they should have 10 or 20 points is an absolutely meaningless endeavour.
ReplyDeleteLook at some Swedish defenders in the NHL (i.e. Karlsson, Enstrom, Kronwall), a lot of them put up even more miniscule numbers, and that's if they can even play regularly in the SEL at that age.
The most telling stat for Larsson is simply the number of games he's already played in SEL thus far at his age and the icetime he's been getting. Trying to derive any sigificance from the points he's put up is just splitting hairs.
SS
ReplyDeleteIt came out after the deal had been done-I don't have a link anywhere(I'm at work,supposed to be working)but apparently Vis had quietly asked to be moved because of "family reasons"-read:his wife wasn't happy in Edmonton.
Trade proposals like this: "Now, if we can draft Adam Larsson and package Hemsky with the other 1st rounder to get a top 5 or 6 pick we could get Huberdeau or Strome as well. That would be exceptional!"
ReplyDeleteMake my head spin. How precisely the logic on those works out, I have no idea.
MAGIC BEANS!!!!
Thanks, Gerta.
ReplyDeleteRob: Might free agents' lack of enthusiasm about coming here have something to do with the facts that the team really sucks quite a bit of shit, and that the management responsible for said shit-suckery remains in place? And that when we *do* lure high profile free agents here, they tend to request trades because of management's treatment of them?
Steve
ReplyDeleteLess negativity please! LOL
We have no idea when the brass will say enough is enough with high picks and until they do we don't know if they're ready to add any real pieces on forward or D.
ReplyDeleteThey dealt 27 away for hopes and dreams so that should be an indicator that 83 will be dealt for a likewise package and that the club's ready to suffer with extreme amounts of youth again next year.
So, until I hear something different I'll assume that's the plan for 2012.
on another note, I guess we don't have the manpower to operate like the Sens are with their AHLers - shuttling them back and forth to help the small club - but if we could get two of 10-16-67 back in time for Fri and Sun's closing games it would be nice to send 23 plus one of 42 or 54 back to OKC to help them out for their final weekend.
ReplyDeleteThe same goes for the D and 58 if either of 77 or Chorney are ready to go by this weekend.
It's called simple logic. You take what our teams needs (top-notch defenceman and 1st line centreman). You draft one of those options with your first pick. Next, you deal with a team like the Islanders (for example) who will most likely have the 5th or 6th pick (and would be willing to trade that pick). The Islanders (as someone already mentioned) need to win NOW! They need to build a new arena as well and can't afford to wait much longer to develop too many new prospects, so it would be quite enticing for them to make a deal involving Hemsky (and our second 1st rounder) or some other package that would be of interest (Brule or Gagner?).
ReplyDeleteBottom line: We have the opportunity to kill two birds with one stone here and Tambellini needs to make that happen! He certainly has the prospects to deal if that is what another team wants. As an NHL General Manager, you need to be creative. That is why I have always admired Brian Burke. He makes things happen. Oh, and speaking of Mr. Burke, you can bet your bottom dollar that there is NO WAY the Leafs are just going to draft players with their two 1st rounders. Burke has already been quoted as saying he is going to do whatever it takes to move up in the draft. That's the point I was making. Tambellini needs to approach this situation with the same creativity, and I know he already is thinking about doing so. He admitted that talks have been ongoing (for June) with at least one other team.
Less negativity please! LOL
ReplyDeleteOh, very well.
The key pieces added by Tambellini during the last off-season will all be off our books by the end of next season! Huzzah!
Trishem? I hardly know 'em!
Dennis:
ReplyDeleteIt'll be interesting to see what they do with Whitney next trade deadline as well - he'll be in the same contract spot that Hemsky and Penner were this trade deadline, with one full season and the remainder of another left on his deal
Make my head spin. How precisely the logic on those works out, I have no idea.
ReplyDeleteI direct you to the following:
That is why I have always admired Brian Burke. He makes things happen.
Mike: true enough.
ReplyDeleteIf you think 83's injury prone and too expensive and that's why you deal him then I don't see why you don't make the same conclusion with 6.
I'm just really waiting for the Oilers to dig in their heels and say they're ready to try and be more in the standings than young doormats.
Since Burke makes trades happen, we should trade for Toronto's 1st round pick on this year's draft. Oh, wait...
ReplyDeleteMaybe he'd put in a good word with Chiarelli for us.
ReplyDeleteLMHF, I'm with you on this one. I don't get how trading one of the best RWs in the league, and ppg players for a lottery ticket to draft someone who hopefully one day might have the chance of being as good makes any sense whatsoever. To add to the lunacy it's also apparently a good idea to sweeten the deal by adding a low 1st round pick?
ReplyDeleteUnless Hemsky absolutely will not resign (and indications are that he wants to stay here,the human drive to resist change is a very powerful thing); or they have inside knowledge that Hemsky's injury is performance altering he should stay put.
uni - I'd say that indications are mixed. Tencer seems pretty certain that he'll at least test out free agency, and I might look to trade him even even that's a certainty (notwithstanding that he could re-sign with Edmonton after giving free agency a shot).
ReplyDeleteTrading a former #13 who's more than covered his bet for a high pick alone that MIGHT one day turn out better than he is...in multiple years with tons of risk...is a risky enough play.
ReplyDeleteTo then add a first round draft pick in the range where we recently picked Jordan Eberle is lunacy.
This is what bad teams do in order to stay bad.
Uni - well put. Everything I've seen indicates he wants to stay.
on a positive note - and yes it's coming from me - last night was the first game I'd watched in awhile and I believe I saw a change in 91 and specifically the areas of the ice from where he's currently shooting.
ReplyDeletelast night he was cutting to the inside and creating much better angles for himself and getting much closer to the goal.
I haven't seen specific figures but his TOI must have jumped about say 2min a night since all hands started falling to injury.
last night he was cutting to the inside and creating much better angles for himself and getting much closer to the goal.
ReplyDeleteI wonder how much of this was due to the Nucks' defencemen sleeping on the job last night, though. They looked like slugs for most of the game. I think I saw Strudwick skate by one of them.
As an aside, anyone remember when Damien Cox suggested in one of his articles that the Oilers package their 1st, and trade down in the 1st round in order to "...get rid of Penner's toxic contract..."?
ReplyDeleteCox even accused someone (I can't recall, maybe it was Andy Grabia) of, to paraphrase, not being in touch with reality when he/she emailed to state that Penner & Gilbert were useful and would get value in a trade.
SS, I wouldn't put it past the current Oilers management to float 'news' that Hemsky won't resign in order to justify trading him. That's just conjecture on my part though; I have very little faith I'm this management group.
As an aside, anyone remember when Damien Cox suggested in one of his articles that the Oilers package their 1st, and trade down in the 1st round in order to "...get rid of Penner's toxic contract..."?
ReplyDeleteYes. Damien Cox is an idiot, but at least he's accountable. Or something.
SS, I wouldn't put it past the current Oilers management to float 'news' that Hemsky won't resign in order to justify trading him. That's just conjecture on my part though; I have very little faith I'm this management group.
I'd find that slightly more plausible if I saw any reason to believe they'd need to do that. I think our new friend Rob is more representative of the fanbase at large than we are.
Pressis: Gollum as a child, before he nailed the "sh" sound.
I would say 83's gone unless the offers for him on the trade market are really low.
ReplyDeleteThe puppet was practically crowing on deadline night about how 83's value to the team will be evaluated like everyone else and 83 also said he was told he was gone if they got the right offer for him.
That doesn't sound like an org that wants to keep a player and it doesn't sound like an org that isn't shy about aiming for another top five pick again next year.
Proppi: what the man directly in front of Brian's effete hand signals called him.
Marty Turco: the next Pete Rose?
ReplyDelete(Reasons I already liked Turco, for anyone who hasn't seen them: 1, 2
I have very little faith I'm this management group.
ReplyDeleteI have little faith that you are Tambo/Lowe either. If you are, you should listen to yourself.
I agree with Dennis. I think Hemsky is a goner at the deadline. Given his clear inability to stay healthy - I am not sure I mind. If his injuries were flukes I'd discount it, but they arise from the fact he continues to try and rush the puck over the blue line, where he gets crushed. Plus he doesn't seem to bulk up to try and become more durable.
acrotch - the only thing Hemsky hasn't injured - yet.
Big game tonight in LA. We really need the Yotes to beat the Kings, and then I like their chances of losing out to the Ducks.
ReplyDeleteIf not, LA might suddenly be in 4th.
I can't believe Chicago has put themselves in danger of being the team to miss if the Stars do their part and win out.
The hawks are getting a raw deal given their GD.
ReplyDeletehas there ever been a team to miss the playoffs in the modern era with a plus 25 or more GD?
I don't think Hemsky gets traded.
ReplyDeleteNumerous non-Edmonton media sources indicated at the trade deadline trade deadline that they were asking the moon for him, with more than one saying that Edmonton really didn't want to trade him so they set the asking price really high.
He's apparently been offered for Seguin, Johanson and Schenn, three of the best center prospects in the world, but not for any lesser prospects or picks, or if he has it hasn't been widely reports the way the other three have.
He's missed much of the last two seasons due to injury, has only played 80 regular season games once in his entire career and is one year from free agency. It is hard to imagine any team giving up even one significant asset for a player like that.
I don't see how you add all those together and conclude that Hemsky gets traded from picks and prospects.
Ugh.
ReplyDeleteApologies for the all the typos in that.
It's past my bed time.
Just a random question:
ReplyDeleteIf you had an Oilers jersey from the 80s and it had Tom Gilbert and Sam Gagner autographs, what would you do with it?
(I met those two on Whyte Ave today, they were really friendly. We chatted about the young guys, Gilbert says he thinks Hartikainen has earned himself a roster spot for next year.)
Quers - That's queer.
The Hemsky thing is somewhat similar to the Ryan Smyth situation from 2006 summer through his trade deadline.
ReplyDeleteOilers--despite a reported meeting between owner and player last summer--arrive at season's end with some friction.
Smyth didn't have a contract beyond the 06-07 season, same as Hemsky. Smyth certainly didn't feel the love, same as Hemsky.
So, we're probably looking at a deadline trade unless Katz steps in and forces the issue. The EIG appeared to be onside with dealing Smyth and we know management admitted it was a mistake after the fact.
I don't see how this is any different, so we can plan for Steve Tambellini to admit he perhaps mishandled it about 2014.
acrotch - the only thing Hemsky hasn't injured - yet.
ReplyDeleteHe hurt his groin earlier this year.
I believe Ducey was referring to the pubis thing.
ReplyDeleteTeddy Peckman experienced the ups and downs of a rookie and will improve - but he's a ways from being the next Matt Greene.
ReplyDelete... which is why I was never a fan of dumping Greene, and argued long and hard back in the day. It's not like The Next Matt Greene isn't out there, the problem is he's about four years and 1200 mistakes away.
I haven't seen specific figures but his TOI must have jumped about say 2min a night since all hands started falling to injury.
Dennis: One thing that's gone up for sure is MP's shot totals. He's had 40 in the last 11 games, leading the Oilers in shots several times in that span including last night when he had 6. He's scored four goals on those 40 shots. Among rookie forwards he now ranks sixth in shots (171) and tenth in goals (14).
has there ever been a team to miss the playoffs in the modern era with a plus 25 or more GD?
Depends what you mean by "modern". To me, acknowledged geezer, that word means "post-expansion", and for sure the 1969-70 Montreal Canadiens were famously locked out of the dance despite a GD of +43 (and a W-L record 16 games over Real .500). That final weekend in the Eastern Division was the greatest finish ever, with two teams tying for first place and two tying for fourth and them all playing each other in meaningful home and away series. Came down to Goals For as a tie-breaker (Goal Differential wasn't a consideration), and the way things worked out was classic.
Detroit had New York in their weekend series, and the Wings won Saturday afternoon in Detroit to clinch their own playoff berth and third place, and by all accounts the boys went out and got pretty hammered up after the game. Meanwhile New York still had a chance, they had to win Sunday in MSG and score a pile of goals in the process to tie Montreal in the standings and give themselves a chance in the tiebreaker. Well they did just that, scoring 9 goals on 65 shots in their afternoon contest (and pulling their goalie with a 9-3 lead looking for even more) to force the issue. So by the Sunday night on the Sunday night the Habs needed a win, a tie, or at least 5 GF to win the tie-breaker, and the Hawks needed to win (at home) to clinch first place so it was a big game for them too. So once the score got to 5-2 Chicago midway in the third Claude Ruel realized that they would need 5 goals to tie and if they got the 5 goals they wouldn't need the tie if you follow me, so he pulled his goalie with something like 11 minutes to go looking for 3 goals. The Hawks - who absolutely hated the Habs and with good reason - just started to pile in the empty-net goals. Final score was 10-2 and the Chicago Stadium crowd just got louder with each empty netter that went in. It was great (unless you were a Habs fan I suppose, but I certainly wasn't). I heard that game on the radio and will never forget it.
Anyway, even after that debacle the Habs were +43, and I would say without a doubt were the best team I ever saw that missed the playoffs. They won the Cup the year before and the year after.
Where is the evidence that they aren't showing him love?
ReplyDeleteThey aren't allowed to sign a contract extension until this summer, so the fact that he has a year and a bit left on his deal can't be it.
Is not being willing to trade him unless they get an unbelievable offer not showing him any love? I would think that that's a sign of how highly they value him, rather than the opposite.
Marc: You'd have to agree that the Oilers are sending him mixed messages. From what we know, there was a meeting between Katz and Hemsky last summer (I believe it was dinner) and the idea was that Hemsky was going to be here long term.
ReplyDeleteFast forward to the deadline and the GM is basically telling him to have a bag packed because he could be headed to the airport.
If both of those things are true, and we have evidence these two events took place, then it's hard to marry them. And it's especially hard to argue that the Oilers have a plan in regard to next season, Hemsky, signing free agents and on it goes.
It's a tell.
SS, that sadly makes sense. That Gollum comment cracked me up for some reason.
ReplyDeleteDucey, well played. I'm trying to get used to this swype thing on a droid phone and sometimes I miss fun little things.
At least the off season will be interesting I guess.
Verification word: cuntboot
I'll let those more skilled than me figure that one out.
LT,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. However, I think its possible the trade deadline conversation between the Oilers and Hemsky involved something like this: "We are entertaining trade offers involving you. We would need a HUGE return in order to bring them into reality, but just thought we would let you know that it is possible."
That doesn't sound like a soured relationship to me, as much as it shows that the Oilers value Hemsky highly, yet recognize that this is a business and they will consider every possibility of making their team better.
I think Marc raised a good point re: Hemsky. Oilers fans love him because they get to see him at his best, but a lot of people outside the Edmonton fanbase just see all the games lost and the point totals (as opposed to per game production). Even if management thinks it's best to move him, the return may not be high enough to justify. Moreover, unless he can stay healthy all of next year, I don't know if he'll be able to command much of a raise in free agency.
ReplyDeleteCuntboot? Well, that kind of defeats the idea of making people register.
ReplyDeleteSo, I've flushed that and anyone can post. Please try to maintain civility and keep in mind some kids (mine) do read this blog and don't need any help in figuring out ways to to use profanity in a creative fashion.
Speaking of next year's plans, the Oilers are planning on plumbing the depths of the standings again in 2011/2012 right?
ReplyDeleteAnyone believe otherwise? I don't think it makes sense but there's really no other way to follow punting on Penner is there?
I'm sorry LT, that was a lapse of judgement repeating that one. I think the mandatory registration is quite good actually. That was a very off word though.
ReplyDeleteBistu: a much more civil verification word.
uni: "Person better off avoided"
ReplyDeleteOr so my psynon has me thinking.
1. I kind of liked the registration requirement - not because it kept out the rabble, but because it fostered a bit of a sense of community.
ReplyDelete2. uni, don't apologize - once that captcha cropped up, you were under a legal obligation to post it here. I'm pretty sure.
RQ: Agreed. I think the Oilers will sign a mid-level defender from the Vandermeer tree and then elevate guys like Hartikainen to cover off the spots up front.
ReplyDeleteThe defense could see Vandermeer and Larsson in, Strudwick and Kurtis Foster out. Something like that.
So, you LIKE the registration? I've been taking emails for weeks about how it has ruined people, and now some people like it?
ReplyDeleteLordy. :-)
I think the problem that a lot of Oiler fans have with Hemsky is that we've been waiting for him to have a 'breakout year' since I was in grade 4, and yet he seems to be injured
ReplyDeleteEVERY
FRIGGIN
YEAR
and yet every preseason the TV analysts keep saying that this year will be 'the year' for Hemsky.
rentso: a disease native to Victoria, BC where struggling students are forced to pay ridiculous prices for studio apartments.
At this point, given that Katz is likely going to have to swallow the last bit of the Souray contract and Khabby may be destined for the minors, if the Oilers can't find a trade partner for Foster, doesn't it seem likely that he'll start the year in Edmonton?
ReplyDeleteThe defense could see Vandermeer and Larsson in, Strudwick and Kurtis Foster out. Something like that.
ReplyDeleteIsn't Vandermeer already in?
As for Foster...Lowetide, you're an eternal optimist. What will make this the year they start flushing bad players to whom they've committed?
So, you LIKE the registration? I've been taking emails for weeks about how it has ruined people, and now some people like it?
Well, I like it. But I don't like it as much as other people hate it; in any event, my presence here isn't contingent on the question of whether you make people renister (you won't get rid of me that easily!).
("Renister" was my captcha, not a typo.)
Larsson goes right in? Would the Oilers really burn ELC years for a dman too? That's a whole new level especially when he could keep playing in a very good league against men.
ReplyDeleteI love the registration thing. It takes like 2 minutes and if you're too lazy to do it, well then don't post.
ReplyDeletePlus it trims out every random guy who make a 11 foot posts with no punctuation whatsoever.
I think the problem that a lot of Oiler fans have with Hemsky is that we've been waiting for him to have a 'breakout year' since I was in grade 4, and yet he seems to be injured
ReplyDeleteI can put this to bed for you right now. Oiler fans didn't start the clock on Hemsky when you got into grade 4.
Ales Hemsky, playing at his current level for sixty games per year (which I believe is exactly his average since the lockout), is worth every penny of his current contract. That's not expressing a view on whether or not he should be traded, but if we can keep him something resembling these terms, I don't hesitate for a second.
ReplyDeleteSS: agreed, and I have serious doubts that many other teams would be willing to match that, let alone top it.
ReplyDeleteSS: Vandermeer was UFA this summer last I looked, although I may have missed it.
ReplyDeleteAs for Foster, he had a solid year in the SE so I'm hoping the Oilers send him there.
RQ: I agree it would be a poor choice but the Oilers would give him every chance imo. Hedman went right to the NHL in TBAY, right?
So do we want the registration thing or no?
Vandermeer was UFA this summer last I looked, although I may have missed it.
ReplyDeleteWell, so's Strudwick, and you seem to be considering his starting condition as "in", or there'd have been no need to identify him as heading out. If this team winds up with Vandermeer but without Strudwick next year, it's either because they moved out Strudwick or because they brought in Vandermeer; any other configuration treats UFAs inconsistently.
Contradict me on utterly insignificant points at your peril. Especially during paper season.
RQ, LT:
ReplyDeleteI have pretty much the same take as you, as soon as the Penner trade happened I think that's a pretty good indicator that the Oilers plan on "developing the kids" next season as well, and picking up another top 3-5 pick. On the other hand, it is certainly too early to definitively say they are planning for a top 3 pick next season. But I do think it`s fair to suggest that, until we see some evidence to the contrary, is very likely to be the case.
For instance, what if the Oilers decide to overpay Tanguay and give him, say, 5.5 mil per season for 2 seasons. Can one make some kind of argument that Tanguay + LA 2011 1st + Teubert > Penner + 1.25 mil in cap space? I don't know, but I could kind of see the thought process anyways.
lol. I swear to GOD you're Felix Unger and that is an extreme compliment. :-)
ReplyDeleteOkay. Here's my predicted top 7 for the Oilers in the fall:
Whitney-Petry
Smid-Gilbert
Peckham-Vandermeer
Chorney
That's not to say that I think EDM will make a UFA splash like that, only that, in theory, I suppose it's possible at this point.
ReplyDeletelol. I swear to GOD you're Felix Unger...
ReplyDeleteA writer for the Gateway once endorsed me for the U of A Students' Union presidency on the basis that I was "dedicated, level-headed, and a skilled nitpicker". I've received fainter praise.
(I finished fifth, if memory serves. Turns out people don't like nitpickers.)
What registration thing?
ReplyDeleteWere 'anonymous' posts not allowed for a while?
I haven't seen any changes except for having to spell words like 'sapodial' and 'momark' and things like that.
I see no need to allow or not allow anonymous comments - most people here post with a username it seems.
speeds: I think they're convinced that they can development enough talent and have it hit at just the right moment for the entire city to go super nova.
ReplyDeleteAnd if this were 1982 and free agency happened after everyone was a spent force maybe it would be a good bet.
But I don't think it is, or at least it isn't worth the 40 miles of bad road.
Well everyone has their preferences but I married one. Every day I come home and the house is hotel clean and I know exactly where everything is always.
ReplyDeleteAnd if I don't, it's my fault and i know it. :-)
I for one welcome our registration overlords.
ReplyDeleteCactus I'm not advocating overpay, but I also wouldn't want to tempt faith by letting him hit free agency if possible.
Remember what chronically injured Gaborik fetched? I can see a GM offering Hemsky 4-5 with term fairly easily.
Contradict me on utterly insignificant points at your peril. Especially during paper season.
ReplyDeleteThis is clearly a significant statement. For some reason I now have John Houseman's Paper Chase quotes running amok through my head.
LT: I think you are probably right on the defense - but it would not shock me if you have Foster instead of Chorney and Chorney is in the minors (or one of Foster and Vndmr are on IR).
ReplyDeleteI'd suggest you keep the registration. No more brutal posts by people calling themselves "anonymous".
And we have SS to keep us on our toes.
Okay, registration is back.
ReplyDeleteI don't know about Chorney. I don't think he's a player but the Oilers may and the fact that he needs to clear waivers may mean another "Deslauriers fret" is on the way.
Uni: a good point about Gaborik, though I'd argue that Gaborik at least had one healthy, dominant season and he's a 40G threat. He even managed 30G in his 48 game 2006-07 season, something Hemsky's never come close to.
ReplyDeleteAssuming the Oilers are entertaining keeping him (which, given their asking price, I'd say that they are), what's a fair price for Hemsky?
For some reason I now have John Houseman's Paper Chase quotes running amok through my head.
ReplyDeleteWasn't familiar with the movie, and had to look it up. Sounds good.
My first year contracts prof once wrote a constitution at gunpoint for Idi Amin. He was way easier-going than Kingsfield, though. I'm also no James Hart, in case you haven't noticed.
I'd take Hemsky at 4-5 with term - I don't think we'll get a comprable player for that on the open market, even considering injury history.
I also suspect (without having conducted or even devised a statistical experiment to test my suspicions) that people overestimate the importance of injury history. Guys who get injured a lot, like Hemsky, are by and large injury prone (whether for reasons of physiology or playing style). But I think they're also unlucky, and that we tend to ignore that part.
Consider a graph with two axes, "injury pronedness" and "luck". Hemsky, the last few years, has probably been in the "injury prone and unlucky" quadrant. The injury pronedness isn't going to change, but in future years he could just as easily wind up in the "injury prone and lucky" quadrant, and play more games. Or he could be even less lucky. But I don't think a player's injury history has as much predictive value as we often assume.
(I feel the same way about scouting, incidentally - right now Stu's in the "good and lucky" quadrant, and I'm afraid that we're ignoring the possibility that, given the crapshoot that is drafting, he could migrate over to the "good and unlucky" quadrant. But I digress. Often.)
I like the code word thingy, keeps the signal to noise ratio higher than it was. I embody noise.
ReplyDelete26 is back next year.
I hope they try to offload him, but I'm not holding my breath.
Agree Woodguy, Foster will be back. With Souray being bought out and the chatter about Khabibulin (would he be sent to OKC?), there's only so much money Katz is going to be willing to spend on contracts - both producing and dead.
ReplyDeleteAnd we have SS to keep us on our toes.
ReplyDeleteYes, the Schutzstaffel certainly will do that.
asesse: depending on how you pronounce it, either Tambellini's favorite thing to do, or what many think management comprises.
Can any of you Albertans bother to explain me how come all the counties in your territory are all exclusively Conservative?
ReplyDeleteThat despite some notoriously stupid decisions (Fighter Jets, Fire arm register, G8 and G20, Outrage to the assembly etc)
I'm confused about the word verification thing...What is its purpose? I had thought it was to stop Anonymous postings. No? Looking through the blogger settings though, it looks like you can allow only registered users of Google and OpenID to post, and then there is another setting to turn the word verification on or off.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't the simplest thing be to turn the word verification off and only accept registered users? *shrug*
Can any of you Albertans bother to explain me how come all the counties in your territory are all exclusively Conservative?
ReplyDeleteNot sure you want to get into that on a hockey blog, but I'll note that Edmonton Strathcona's MP is a New Democrat.
The short version is that Alberta was created by rugged individualist pioneer-types (Catherine Ford says otherwise, but to hell with her), which has instilled in it a culture of generally free enterprise (the provincial government mucks around in the economy all the time, and used to do so even more, but it's stealthy about it), which means socialists aren't popular here. The Liberals have historically been disdainful towards Alberta, and have based their majorities on Ontario and Quebec. This means that Liberals aren't popular here.
In the 1980s, the Progressive Conservative majority government of Brian Mulroney behaved similarly towards Alberta as had previous Liberal governments (which is hardly surprised, because Alberta doesn't have enough seats for a majority, and Mulroney figured that it could be safely taken for granted anyway). This was one of several factors in the emergence of the Reform Party, of which Stephen Harper was a very early supporter, and which swept Alberta* in the 1993 election. The current Conservative Party is essentially a direct descendant of the Reform Party (although most of the founding principles have been abandoned), and thus its popularity in Alberta can be traced directly back to Reform's.
I think a lot of Albertan's are not crazy about Stephen Harper. But most of them are even less crazy about Ignatieff, and aren't going to go out and vote for a bunch of filthy socialists. They also share the widespread misunderstanding the Westminster parliamentary system that makes it the opposition's fault we're having an unnecessary election, so that doesn't help.
That's the short version. You don't want the long one.
*Basically. Four Edmonton seats elected Liberals.
Also, I just pluralized "Albertan" using an apostrophe. I'm clearly in no condition to be writing papers right now.
ReplyDeleteWord verification by itself at the very least significantly reduces if not altogether eliminates spam.
ReplyDeletetorsa: a female torso
@Fastoil:
ReplyDeleteI agree it should be possible to rebuild and progress at the same time. Especially factoring in the idea of utilizing present day cap space as a commodity.
Shipping out Penner should have been the last move of this regime period. There is no excuse for not packaging Hemsky and Penner up at last years draft, taking on the Philly/Boston/any other team in cap hell one year overpays and already be one year closer to finding a trace of light in the tunnel.
Hey folks,
ReplyDeleteSeeing it's spring, I've been wearing my Oilers jacket around these days to much ridicule and people asking me if it's a golfing jacket.
Funny how few people even mentioned my jacket since the last two games happened.
For those of you interested, I would buy stock in athletic tape. The Canucks bandwagon is about to become very crowded and the inevitable ankle sprains will be coming in a few weeks.
Remember, you heard it here first.
SS: Fair enough. Tough I still don't get how giving tax credits to large companies, and buying expensive shit fighter jets to an american company is somehow ''More pioneer''.
ReplyDeleteBoth government will spend the same amount exept one will do it on education and families, instead of encouraging corporate greed.
I get that the Oil pumps a lot of jobs but it's just not a viable market. Taxing all the descendants future ain't exactly the best idea.
Ignatieff has clearly abandoned gaining any foothold in Alberta when he made eliminating tax cuts for Oilsands related companies part of his platform.
ReplyDeleteWhy encourage companies to invest in Alberta, when they can just pump all of the bitumen to Texas instead?
You're absolutely right that the Conservatives' record doesn't much match their rhetoric, but that's true of most governments.
ReplyDeleteBut like I said, discussing politics is probably not conducive to keeping the tone around here cordial.
@flamingpavelbure
ReplyDeletePlease save me from myself and leave it to hockey on the blog for now.
Not that it matters, but after successfully concluding a business transaction to put me into the black from December spending, I now find myself locked out of a lady friend's apartment.
ReplyDeleteAs much fun as posting here on my shiny new phone has been, I'm starting to lose that celebratory feeling. Besides my battery is dying.
Any one know how to defeat a Weiser Lock without smashing it? Perhaps someone with a misspent youth?
JUST GOT ON. ANYONE HAVE THE FEED
ReplyDeletefpb. do a little research about what Trudeau's national energy program did to the Alberta economy in the early 1980's and you will know why no sane Albertan would ever vote Liberal.
ReplyDeletePersh is my word which is close to perish which is what happened to many small businesses in Alberta in as a direct consequence of the NEP. I am 60 years old and have never been able to recover the net worth that I had in 1982.
now my word is deard.. no more passionate comments about the NEP.
ReplyDeleteGo Oilers Go.
I hate the flames more than I hated Trudeau..
lol
Fpb,
ReplyDeleteIt is very easy to tell your age by your posts, a lot of absolutes on players and politics.
Why do Albertans vote right wing on average? Wealth and a fear of Liberals stealing the wealth.
Nothing makes me chuckle more than watching Liberal throw around the words like "scandal".
All politicians feather their nests, but the Liberals (esp. Under Cretien) turned stealing from the tax payers into high art.
WG: But both ''programs'' contain as much taxes as the other, just spent differently.
ReplyDeleteI guess some scars don't disappear easily.
I noticed in a graph a lot of the conservative votes come from the older guys.
At the same time there's still another option to the Liberals (NPD).
I'm not an economics specialist, but it just seems appropriate that investing more in education and by that having a higher specialization rate would make your GDP go up.
Not that I want to further the politics discussion on here,* but as a sometime French speaker I should clarify that FPB is using "program" to describe what we would call a "platform".
ReplyDelete*If anybody actually wants to discuss the politics of Alberta and Albertans, shoot me an e-mail at steve.smith@unb.ca; I am, after all, the self-anointed owner of New Brunswick's Largest Privately Held Library on the Political History of Alberta. But I am not a rapper, despite that being my captcha.
I like the word verification as well.
ReplyDeleteMine is nopoliticshere
I don't think there's any question that Larsson will be in the top six D come next season if he's indeed the selection.
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers are all too proud to show off the new baubles as a way to promoting what might be a less terrible future and he's been playing against men for awhile in what might be the world's second best league and I'm sure that's something we'll have read about 50 times by the last of September.
Bruce: I usually look at things in terms of the 67 expansion and then the 79 WHA teams joining but for this exercise take a look at how it's gone since the NHL dropped the divisional format and went to top eight teams in the conference.
HB: I remember that 2-0 loss; it happened on a Friday night and I'm pretty sure the last goal was an ENG. Two days later Josh Green helped the Oilers win at Minny and fooled a few more people along the way;)
Matty tweeted that while Iginla have just over 1000pts, the entire Oiler roster on the ice tonight has 807.
ReplyDeleteFpb,
ReplyDeleteIf by fire arm register do you mean the gun registry?
I don't think I will be discussing politics with any of you guys anytime soon.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a member of the Liberal party but I imagine I'm much too liberal for those from Alberta.
I'll say next year's D rolls like this:
ReplyDelete6-Larsson-5-77-49-58
I think 43's once again the 7th D unless 2 can't get a better job elsewhere.
Also Fpb, if you vote conservative you have no heart and if you vote liberal you have no brain.
ReplyDeleteBoo: Yes. As for the 2nd comment, let's put it on ice.
ReplyDelete@boopronger:
ReplyDeleteSo if you split your ticket it makes you a combination of the cowardly lion and the tin man?
Hard to split a ticket in Canada without either spoiling your ballot or engaging in electoral fraud.
ReplyDeleteWG: Sportsnet just said it was even lower for the Oil (736).
ReplyDeleteAlso, the cowardly lion lacked courage - it would be the scarecrow and the tin man.
ReplyDeleteduh: make that the scarcrow and tin man.
ReplyDeleteCan't even get the wizard of oz reference right.
Am headed for the stupid corner.
Sarph: what a person from Maine would do in southern california
Dennis: I'm holding off in part for much the same reason.
ReplyDeletefpb,
ReplyDeletePlease keep your political thoughts to another place.
We have learned to tolerate your youthful overconfidence in all matters sports related because you bring such enthusiasm, and well, LT is such a gosh darned good host I don't want to go all Brownlee on you...but bringing politics into this blog will just cause even more bickering.
And if you are going to bitch about Conservative fighter jets, you may want to look up why our Armed Forces are still stuck with Sea King helicopters that debuted almost 50 years ago.
*rewis* - the increase in frequency of urination after the first whizz when drinking beer.
Agreed with Dennis on how they roll the D and if they don't get Larsson then bump everyone up the ladder and Teubert or Plante gets the call
ReplyDeletePolitics should stay outta here but I cant help myself.
ReplyDeleteThe liberals started the gun registry. And if you dont think that its the biggest waste of money, then I guess the conversation ends there anyway.
Hoil: Our armed forces could be fighting with a kayak and a BAR rifle I wouldn't care.
ReplyDeleteNot like we have actual ennemies, jesus.
I don't get the fighter jet thing. The U.S. military is buying more than 2000 F-35s and Harper gets grief over securing 65 of them? I kind of like the idea of our military having equipment that doesn't appear to have been lifted out of West Edmonton Malls amusement park.
ReplyDeleteHey...It's a hockey game!
The NHL site has us only dressing fifteen skaters (not including MacIntyre, who I assume is dressed, for all the good that does us). Surely that can't be right?
ReplyDeleteRibs: At least buy it from a Canadian company.
ReplyDeleteIt's not because someone pours a gallon of piss in his mouth you should have a glass full.
Anyway. I'l stop there, it's getting in the danger zone.
They don't have Strudwick or Jacques listed either - I assume that that accounts for the discrepency.
ReplyDeleteI'd suggest that maybe they're only counting actual NHL players, but there's no way that we have fifteen of those.
SS: Sometimes they don't list them until they actually hit the ice once.
ReplyDeleteI like how everybody in this politics debate (not excepting myself) is throwing in their two cents, and then concluding with "But we shouldn't discuss this anymore." All of us want the last word.
ReplyDelete(Hoil mixed it up, though: he started off by saying that we shouldn't discuss politics anymore, and *then* gave his view.)
I'd feel better about our chances of eliminating the Flames if we had Dubnyk in net (just by way of stating the obvious).
FPB: um, there aren't any Canadian companies that are currently peddling a 5th generation attack fighter. In fact, there isn't anyone other than the Americans selling such a product currently.
ReplyDeleteBut enough about politics (and it's hard for me to say that - that's what my PhD's in). Instead, let's speculate on why Tom Renney is a big Flames-lover, evidenced by throwing out Khabby in this one.
SS: I was raised by my grandparents and they were liberal because they remembered the days before Confederation. They were also religious but we were Anglican religious which is much different than RC religious.
ReplyDeleteThese days I hardly even vote but when I do it's for the NDP and I've also been an atheist for the past couple of years.
Still, I try and not preach any of that stuff to people unless they prod. My idea about politics is the vast majority of people who vote never gather a thing from it unless they are lucky. You've got the people who know how to make their vote count but I'm so apathetic towards it all that I couldn't be bothered to join that group.
FPB, I'm not wading in with an opinion, just going to provide you with some facts.
ReplyDeleteThe Liberals canceled a mostly paid for order of helicopters simply because the Conservatives ordered them in the previous administration.
Sea King helicopters are mainly used for domestic purposes, you know things like search and rescue by the coast guard.
Another fun fact, people have died from aged and what should be obsolete Sea Kings simply falling out of the sky.
I'm sure the armed forces would like to use a kayak to rescue people in remote areas only accessible by air, but alas they cannot.
Might I suggest you broach religion as you next topic of discussion?
Is there a hockey game on tonite?
ReplyDeletefpb,
ReplyDeleteAaah, the ignorance of youth. The same kind of ignorance that thinks that our Armed Force's reason for existence is "peace keeping".
With regards to Larsson.... I don't think you can compare progression/regression between the CHL and SEL.
ReplyDeleteWhile you should progress the older you get there is no guarantee in a professional league where there is no cap on age.
In the CHL the competition gets younger as you get older. If you are a legitimate prospect you should have no regression and have a substantial progression.
In the SEL just because you get a year older doesn't necessarily mean things will be or should be easier for you. The competition doesn't get any less difficult and if your role changes and the situations you find yourself in change your numbers will be affected.
So, as has been stated by others, Larsson's numbers are at first blush concerning because of his dip this year but further examination is required to fully understand whether or not there has been a true regression or just a change in how he is utilized.
Uni: What's the number of deaths? I don't what it is, but i'm pretty sure the ration of money spent/lives saved, for new helicopters is somehow smaller than investing this in families.
ReplyDeleteAs for that I seriously doubt it, considering the President of the USA moves himself in a Sea King.
Man, you Newfies are old - nobody in the rest of the country has or has had living relatives who remember before Confederation.
ReplyDeleteHoil: Please don't get me to swear all over the please. That old con descendant attitude you can shove where you can.
ReplyDeleteUnless someones proves me otherwise, Army money is just lobbying, and uses very small benefits to the population as excuses for multi billion dollar expenses.
*Should read place
ReplyDeleteActually, now that do the math, people in their late nineties almost certainly had living relatives who remembered before Confederation. Well, there goes my joke.
ReplyDeleteMan, I'm glad with got Khabibulin dealing with this.
ReplyDelete(I'm listening on the radio - don't spoil it for me.)
The Oilers have nothing in this game.
ReplyDeleteNothing.
I know LT expects Elliot Ness to beat down his store anytime we discuss gambling;) but the Oilers were +350 to win in reg tonight. Last night the Dys were only -130 to win in reg and on Sat night they were +105 to win by two goals.
Those guys in Vegas are on to something.
Speaking of that, as a guy who always gets sucked into betting on MLB too much let me tell you that betting on races to three runs is for suckers;)
Nice hit by Petry on Langkow.
ReplyDeleteLT
ReplyDeleteI like Hejda and Garbagekov as pickups
Registration. What can you say,! lawyers. Any side of any argument. For today, against tomorrow!
No more Struds, Foster .... Just bad. good in the room though
Omaark is a smurf to keep. he has exceptional vision
Ugh.
ReplyDeleteMan, this has been a depressing hockey game. Who wants to talk politics?
ReplyDeleteSS,
ReplyDeleteAs an a amateur nit-picker myself it's alway educational to read a professional opinion, but if you check my post I said fpb shouldn't bring his politics in, there was no "we" advice given.
SS
ReplyDeleteNewfies think of Condereration as 1949
Yeah, that was the joke, before I realized that my statement was false even if you use 1867.
ReplyDeleteThank you! I'll be here all week! Unless they cancel my contract, which seems like a very real danger!
Here is what they Oilers will do in the offseaon.
ReplyDeleteNothing.
More kids will get elevated in positions they are ill prepared for.
More young NHL'ers will be given assignments they are not experienced enough to handle.
The last remaining tough minute out scorer, Hemsky will probably be run out of town. (10 is getting older and slower and probably can't do it without 83)
They will sign a couple of FA's like Vandermeer or Jones. Guys who can't really hold their own against anyone.
Stauffer will bitch about the Oilers getting their show run.
14,4,91,23,58,40 and others will continue to improve but their assignments will be heavy.
There will be flashes of brilliance, but the playoffs will be in another area code by January, maybe even Christmas.
Khabby will play more than everyone wants him to, except Renney. DD will continue to outplay him, but will not get the icetime that should go with the #1 job.
The defence will be porous, one or two important players will get hurt and losses will blamed on them by management.
Management will keep talking about the rebuild while rushing the 1/2 Overall to the show and ensuring FA $ will flow for that player at 25.
"giongsho" - Oiler management
I swear that's actually my thingy word.
Rob Brown: You know the Flames aren't going to be able to come that hard again.
ReplyDeleteDo I have a dirtier mind than the rest of you?
Uni: What's the number of deaths? I don't what it is, but i'm pretty sure the ration of money spent/lives saved, for new helicopters is somehow smaller than investing this in families.
ReplyDeleteFPB, I'm having a bit of difficulty believing that statement. The Labradors were supposed to be replaced as well.
I'm sure you're right though, Helicopters are very expensive things to have and maintain. Next time a maritime or remote search and rescue is called for, I'm sure you'll have no trouble telling the families of the victims that it's simply too expensive to justify the cost of the manpower and equipment to bother looking.
That's a very slippery slope my friend. I'm not being condescending here, but when you get older, you'll learn that things aren't quite as black and white as you may think.
As for Marine One, that's a heavily modified Sea King from a special squadron. The newer SH60 seems to be favoured as well over the aging Sea King, and they've been trying to replace it since 2002. The US Navy as of 2006 has decommissioned its Sea King fleet.
WG: while I agree that there probably won't be too much in the way of player acquisition in the offseason, I don't think it's a stretch to see the club bring in one quality minutes 4th D-man.
ReplyDeleteAs for shipping Hemsky out, I know you and a few other doomsayers on this board are convinced that management are idiots and will proceed to destroy the team in systematic fashion, but come on already. If things were truly as dire as that, they would've dealt Hemsky at the deadline for 50 cents on the dollar.
Uni: Well i'm sure you'l have the earth to tell a 10000 kids they can't have breakfast this year because they had to augment the chances of rescue on some guy up north too.
ReplyDeleteheart* Jesus it's getting weird.
ReplyDeleteUse what you wish guys, I know it's innocent and all, but I'd like to just toss it out there that a lot of Newfoundlanders really dislike the term Newfie.
ReplyDeleteSome hate, some argue the best way to disarm it, is to embrace it, but I just really dislike it because it has a long storied stigma of ethnic stereotyping.
I've mellowed on the subject in a large way but it still makes my skin itch when I read people using that term.
Dennis: lol. Classic line. And true!
ReplyDeletefpb,
ReplyDeleteSimple fact of the matter is that by your statements you have proven yourself very naive regarding pretty much everything related to the military.
I suggested an issue for you to look into yourself; the Sea King helicopters, in order for you to get some perspective on you jet argument. I have learned over the years not to accept other's opinions as "fact", which is why I tried to let you learn the facts for yourself instead of just telling you.
Your response regarding kayaks was an insult to those of us who do respect our military those who have risked it all for our country. Your flippant response was indeed ignorant, and you can look up what that means as well if you aren't sure of the definition.
Danny - thanks for that (seriously). My personal experience is that there's no great objection to it, but I suppose as one of these guys who doesn't believe that anecdotal evidence is conclusive I should be a little more cautious.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the re-assurance Woodguy. You only forgot that management does nothing because 4.0 is still assessing and Vish needed a new set of strings for the puppet.
ReplyDeleteWG: Yeah, I think that's a good guess. We'll be better because we have young players who should improve but we'll be so thin that one or two injuries will kill us.
ReplyDeleteI think the Oilers are embracing the idea of clusters without considering windows,
Yeah, the newfie thing is over the top. I have some friends from there and it's like Saskabusher squared. Not like calling a Baymen a Townie but it shouldn't be used imo.
ReplyDeleteUni: Well i'm sure you'l have the earth to tell a 10000 kids they can't have breakfast this year because they had to augment the chances of rescue on some guy up north too.
ReplyDeleteFPB, let me just clarify before I make an assumption. You're saying we should never mount search and rescues in remote areas (and these costs lots of money everytime) because the money is better spent elsewhere.
So when a ship sinks, or some party is lost up "north" just let them die.
I don't have a response to that if that's the case. You win. I'm going to watch the Flames light up Khabibulin now.
fpv,
ReplyDeleteStop with the political talk.
Please.
Cactus,
I actually have more than one bet out that Hemsky stays.
I'm not convinced he goes, but the writing on the wall has changed in the last 3 months.
Apparently these refs didn't read the Down Goes Brown post where he pointed out that it's technically impossible for the 2010-2011 Oilers to have too many men on the ice.
ReplyDeleteYou're right Fpb, one dollar spent on helicopters equals one less dollar for a hungry kid. Like others have said, its not so black and white.
ReplyDeleteHoil: As of you. You call me naive without stating anything, outside of the Sea King thing. Anyways.
ReplyDeleteWhen was last since WW2 we actually had any real threat to our country (Then again, it's not like we made a difference either)? Puzzling.
There's a difference between ''respecting'' the military and be willing to flush billions of dollars on it.
I respect religions, however i'd be pissed if the government was to fund them with billions of dollars.
So "Newfie" is the new Maritime "N-word"?
ReplyDeleteNice little pick by Glencross there, you never see that interference called.
Pisses me off that instead of staying above the goal line Vandermeer chases the play and opens things up for Bourque.
ReplyDeleteThey were just chasing the puck.
trobbla - what the Oil are in tonite. Big time.