When the Detroit Red Wings traded Frank Mahovlich to Montreal for Mickey Redmond (and magic beans), the Red Wing ownership and fanbase adopted Redmond as "the future."
And why not? Redmond (in photo, L-R, Reg Leach and Marshall Johnston for the Seals, Ron Stackhouse marking them at the blue and then Redmond coasting back for Detroit. Delvecchio is at the back of the frame and I can't identify the Seal with his stick up at center ice) was a bona fide star in the making and should have had an enormous career.
What happened? Redmond got hurt. In 1974-75 he got hurt (back injury) and that was pretty much all she wrote. The Red Wings owners were at first in denial, and then angry, and there were lots of hard feelings at the time. I was just a kid, but well remember the Hockey News stories about how much impact that injury would have on the Red Wings moving forward. That injury combined with Marcel Dionne leaving for the left coast made certain that Detroit would spend an entire generation out of the second season.
The Detroit Red Wings made the playoffs exactly twice between 1967 and 1983. They made it in 1970 with Garry Unger (42 goals), Frank Mahovlich (38) and a 41-year old Gordie Howe (31 goals) leading the way, and they also made it in 1978 with a young Dale McCourt leading the way.
Injuries had an enormous impact on the Detroit Red Wings of the era. Redmond, Danny Grant on it went. Sometimes things come in three's, sometimes in multiples of three.
--
The Sam Gagner injury is one to watch. There was some conflicting information available last night with regard to its severity. In the thread below, Woodguy summed up the situation:
- TSN: "During a short surgical procedure on Thursday, doctors found no major tears, but they did uncover a series of small tears and injuries." Edmonton Sun Oilers' beat writer Derek Van Diest tweeted that a tendon was severed. I asked him his source (since it was different than TSN report) and he said that is what the team told him.
--
I don't think you can really count on the current Oilers to win a game down the stretch. If they win tonight, it will be goaltending, luck and Detroit on a down night. This club has been stripped down and is sailing to the hinterland.
yep. didn't someone make the comment last week about the cursed 42 point barrier for this team? injury, trade, aliens....
ReplyDeleteSo do they bring Lander over for a look see for 15 games, or do they call up Hartikanen or Macdonald and play Brule on a scoring line?
We'll find out soon. OKC played in San Antonio last night and a recall probably happened after the game. AHL transaction log doesn't have anything yet.
ReplyDeleteI think the reasonable thing to do is to ask Lander to come over and play in the AHL.
ReplyDeleteHe can fill in for whoever gets the call to the NHL; no worries about his ELC clock ticking; and he doesn't get thrust into the NHL with a horrid team and getting their asses handed to them game after game.
Hope that happens.
Unless the Oilers face Steve Mason/Brian Elliot type goaltending, they have almost no chance of winning in March and April.
2-3 NHL caliber Dmen, 2-3 NHL caliber forwards (and that includes 14), and .5 NHL caliber goalies.
The Oiler team that takes the ice tonight in DET is not an NHL caliber team.
It's quite unfortunate that there is no home run #1 draft pick like last year.
ReplyDeleteIn Stu we trust, I guess.
This really sucks...the young players going down. i really hope Gagner will be OK. We really have invested a lot in him! time, energy, patience, hope!
ReplyDeleteNor has it been for most of the season. It's unfortunate to some degree how supportive the fans in Edmonton are to the team. In Detroit a couple of seasons ago, the Lions fans took to the street and hung Matt Millen in effigy for what he had done to their franchise. I’m not saying that would be an appropriate action for Oiler’s fans but I don’t think selling out every single home game and leaving Rexall with an armful of merchandise is the right way to show our dissatisfaction either. There’s no reason why V.03 can’t sign a couple of real NHL defenceman and at least 2 forwards with veteran experience to help bridge this team until the kids are ready for real responsibilities.
ReplyDeleteWG
ReplyDeletebang on...this is not a Nhl team. I really wonder whats taking so long in getting Lander signed. Now that the management is not really doing anything, one would think that would be a top priority
regoster: non nhl roster
I believe the "mystery" Seal is Ted MacAneeley, former (WHA)Oiler and Oil King player.
ReplyDeleteLooks like him anyway.
Ok, so a photo of a Wings vs. Seals game from that era is the equivalent of photos from an Oilers vs. Islanders game at the present time then?
ReplyDeletelablinat: an astronaut who works in a lab
Can they just forfeit?
ReplyDeleteThat way, everybody wins. The Oiler players don't have to get embarrassed. The fans don't have to watch the game. The Wings don't need to risk minor injuries from accidentally running into the stancheon.
Really, we should just forward the remainder of this season and the next. Fans can keep coming to the arena and buying tickets, but they will get to see first run movies on a big screen.
Right now, this stretch of games feels like the post-Smyth portion of the 2006-07 season had an ugly love child with the 2009-10 season.
ReplyDeletekingulti: the best frisbee player int he world.
I think it is McAneeley. Good call KSC.
ReplyDeleteanoniter: AA hall moniter.
Sum,
ReplyDeleteAll the noise out of Oiler head office regarding Lander has always been positive.
Lander stated he was impressed with how the team treated him when he came over for rookie camp.
I suspect that the hold up is if Lander is mentally ready to come over now as opposed to TC in Oct.
He seems to indicate that he wants to play in the NHL, but is unsure if he is ready. He also has emotional ties to his team in Timra as he was the captain.
My guess is he comes for TC.
What's the over-under on Eberle hitting 42 points? I'd rather not see him have a season ending injury.
ReplyDeleteI think Kris is right, forfeit right now would be awesome.
ponifili: 1. n an attractive young female pony
2. n a person with an inordinate amount of love for NHL hockey player Alexander 'Poni' Ponikarovsky.
The only team I see the Oilers beating is the Avs. We play them 2x and I see them pushing for the #1 pick
ReplyDeleteThis is basically spring 2007 all over again. Thirtieth place overall is in the bag.
ReplyDeleteJeez, now Gagner. The reports on the microtears etc could mean the sheath around the tendon(s) were cut. Shouldn't be a big deal. A clean cut tendon shouldn't be much of a problem long term. Was there anything tweeted about nerve damage? They run close to the tendons in the hand and wrist. To me that is a bigger deal for his recovery.
ReplyDeleteI would suspect if Lander does come over he is going to OKC,just like Eberle last year.
ReplyDeleteI would hope Lander would go to OKC. Keep him out of the mess on the big club so that his development is not damaged by playing in situations where he's way over his head.
ReplyDeleteBut by all means, get him to OKC so he has a chance to adjust to the smaller rink and help him prep for next season - if he comes to N.A.
If anything, the sad injury to Gagner I think makes it even more likely that we finish 30th. Colorado is so bad right now they they may be very hard pressed to beat anyone but us the rest of the way - goaltending is even worse than ours.
@Henry,
ReplyDeleteAgreed. If this required surgical repair rather than just exploration, it is likely a partially or totally severed tendon was sewn together. As bad as that sounds, it is not a terrible injury, and in the acute setting heals well. "Microtears" whatever that means sounds more ominous since it could suggest some sort of chronic tendon injury which may impact his career. I think the injury was acute by the history though, and the prognosis should be good barring significant associated neurovascular injury.
I don't blame the blogosphere for being cautious though. Wrist and hand injuries (not to mention foot/ankle injuries) can ruin a career. Remember the very promising Doug Lynch?
Take a knee, hip, or shoulder injury of similar severity any day. Even if it becomes a chronic problem, most NHL'ers can compensate for those serious injuries and still play at a high level. Steve Yzerman (knee including a high tibial osteotomy for god's sake) and Mike Grier (terrible shoulders right from the start of his career) are good examples. Once you get further down the limb, you run out of room to compensate.
I'm wondering if Mr. Katz is socking away all of the money he is saving from not spending to the cap in a special fund for:
ReplyDeletea)the new arena
b)a new pro scouting staff
c)dynamite free agents when the oil
are "cup ready"
or
d)that special Batman Swiss acct.
I think we have a good idea which of the above is most likely.
shrinkled: Wife....yeah, that shrinkled scrotum really does it for me
My evening plans will not include this "entertainment", and I will gladly buy my uncle his 6-pack on our DET-EDM bet, as he endured those dark seasons gallantly before the Illitch/Bowman/Russian 5/Yzerman/Swedish 5/Datsyuk/Babcock/'how long are these guys going to dominate' era
ReplyDeletetrati = Oiler fans who cheer for other clubs in the playoffs (seasonal but recurring disorder in hockey lovers)
or
Prefix to a fancy dish to be served in the Glitter Dome 2014, replacing the heartburn platter currently dished out @ Chez Rexie
WG
ReplyDeleteI understand that, but my question is that why isn't he signed. If he wishes to stay another year..fine ok that's a debate for another time. But he is to be signed by June 1 s no? Then why not get it done now?
Anyone know if we are we up against the limit in the number of contracts (as to why Lander is not signed?
ReplyDeleteMan this is a gong show of injuries. No just so I can some of people I know take on the Chara thing.
ReplyDeleteCalling cops right or wrong?
Suspension?
Now for the last one... this is my take... hey maybe sue the crap out of the designer of the rink as we seen this play before just not at speed.
I say take the Glass out and let Pierre have his head on a Pivot
Rich - they are not, I think the actual number and list is over at Copper and Blue. They had far more leeway compared to past years.
ReplyDeleteSum - wouldn't worry about it, they will get it done I think, who knows maybe they just decided to wait until his season ended.
But they do need to sign him or he goes back into the draft I believe.
Swabubba: There has to be a stanchion somewhere to make the glass stable. I don't know how you could sue him for the location of said stanchion.
ReplyDeleteThanks Black Dog.
ReplyDeleteGiven this year's injury epidemic, is it fair to conclude that the old training staff wasn't completely to blame for last year's spate of injuries?
ReplyDeleteI was onboard with that housecleaning if they were truly not staying abreast of modern training and injury prevention measures. More and more however, it looks like they were canned under the pseudo guise of "culture change" and possibly because they were too chummy with the media. Neither seem like valid grounds for dismissal.
The training staff is brand new. We're still a last place team. We're still plagued by injuries. The more things change, the more they stay the same?
yes I understand the stanchion for stability but the glass in there in between the benches. Just run the glass behind the benches. Hang some netting between them with some flexible material or a break away material. Then we would not have a guy with fractured vertebrae. The only danger point would be the blue lines and you know where that is an they could round the off and have it on some give way platform.
ReplyDeleteRinks can change... they use that area as an exit... What is the glass protecting there a hallway?
There have been close calls before but now we have to do something.
Swubbaboy: The glass there is for the substitute goalie standing there.
ReplyDeleteTough I agree the design of that arena is kinda f'd up.
But why do you need an 8' run of glass halfway up the rink - now there's 4 stanchions instead of two (starts of the zone glass). And why not start those two at an angle instead of straight up and down, then you hit it and get a glancing blow pushing you up, instead.
ReplyDeleteWhat it wasn't is what the MSM is calling it, "We've got to do something about head shots!" Because yes, you do have to do something about head shots but calling this incident one doesn't help that discussion.
oblind - honest, that's what it sez,
Late, but on the suspension issue:
ReplyDeleteI was at a restaurant the other night with a few smart but completely hockey-ignorant people (dancers, as it were. I'm that cool.) The Chara hit was up on the screens on repeat and so I polled the girls at my table. After asking surprisingly keen questions for hockey oblivious people (where was the puck? does the big guy have a history of trying to hurt people?) the results were unanimous. 0/5 thought it was intentional. They were pretty so I'm taking their word.
My own opinion was that it wasn't intentional but I'd be open to a 1 or 2 game suspension simply to send the message that even if Chara wasn't conscious of the stanchion, players in the NHL need to be conscious in the future and responsible for their actions. You can get a high-sticking penalty for innocently following through on your shot; to me this is very similar. Even if Chara didn't intend to injure or headshot Pacioretty, he does need to be conscious of where he is on the ice when he makes that play.
Um, yeah, what Swabby said. I'm a slow typer.
ReplyDeleteYou want to do something interesting, no bodychecking in the neutral zone. It's a transition zone anyhow, you look how many of the stupid shots are like what happened to Crosby, guys coming on or off a bench and catching someone looking the other way. The ugly one at the WJC a year ago, etc.
But Cherry gets grief for all his celebrating rough hockey and he's the first one speaking up for no-touch icing, softer pads instead of armour, better board and glass and board-meets-glass design. All things that could reduce injuries immediately without a single rule change. Anybody looking for real outcomes instead of politicking would go there first, it's the low-hanging fruit. Unfortunately, there are other axes being ground.
Showerhead: Well theyre was motives for revenge earlier.
ReplyDeleteAs for the Stachion + played identification thing, when you got players like Joe Thornton and Henrik Sedin calling Chara a flat out lyer I think you got to listen to those kind of comments.
Alice - that's actually a good idea. Design is not a field I have any experience in but there clearly must be options available to mitigate some of the danger. If these options don't exist, create them!
ReplyDelete@ Showerhead: Interesting that 5 dancers could see what NHL fanatics either cannot or will not see - the intentional wiping out of that poor shmuck by Chara.
ReplyDeleteIt reminds me of the time I saw Wendel Clark get his knee taken out by that Russian he was having a feud with from the Wings. The Russian, a world class athlete was able to make it look accidental, but since athletes have incredible ability to move their bodies it was so fucking obvious(even to me at the time, I was around 8 years old) that it was completely intentional.
Dancers for their part know body mechanics, both their own and from that develop an excellent eye for the movements of others.
And when they're girls they're hotter than hell. As in perfectly hot...geez even thinking about it now I have to go to the bathroom.
flamingpavelbure:
ReplyDeleteThe thing about the revenge argument is that players get pissed off all the time. If Chara went out to hurt people every time he was battling with them he'd have been locked up years ago. I think it's an argument people fall back on because they're upset Max got hurt so bad because the actual collision in my and 5 pretty women's opinion happened without deliberate intent to bash Max's head against the stanchion.
hunter:
ReplyDelete100% agreed on the mindnumbing hotness of a female dancer. I have no words to add because my brain just stopped. Working.
Bah. Sorry for the OT. I hear that there's an NHL team playing hockey in Detroit tonight.
ReplyDeleteShowerhead: Well. The puck is by him. The stanchion is right there. Chara's facing it and he shoves Pacioretty into it.
ReplyDeleteIf he was back to it at some moment I could buy it, but he's never in a stance to make a defensive play. He's simply shoving him. Never seen a guy try to interfere with another trying to shove him instead of trying to actually check him with his hip or something.
Showerhead
ReplyDeleteBah. Sorry for the OT. I hear that there's an NHL team playing hockey in Detroit tonight.
Unfortunately there is only 1 NHL team playing hockey in Detroit tonight
Never seen a guy try to interfere with another trying to shove him instead of trying to actually check him with his hip or something.
ReplyDeleteNever, huh. It probably happens every game. There's just a difference between a Laddy Smid shove and a Zdeno Chara shove.
Uhh, hunter?
ReplyDelete0/5 thought it was intentional.
So about the game. I want see better compete that is it. It was bad against the caps not sure if the score will be any better. Does the NHL have a mercy rule...
ReplyDeleteSchitzo:
ReplyDeleteI know, bro.
I don't see why henrik sedin or Joe thorton are any more credible then any other person in this situation. Ryan Smyth came out to say he saw no fault in what Chara did and being a player who had the same thing done to him, I'd say he far more credible then Sedin or Thorton.
ReplyDeleteRibs,
ReplyDeleteand besides, Smid, you have Peckham, Greene, and the past master of the straight arm interference that never got called, Jason Smith.
Dooz: It's juat rare players publicly criticize the league.
ReplyDeleteAs for the credibility thing I don't know why he would be more credible.
Gene tweets the lines...
ReplyDeletePaajarvi-Horcoff-Eberle
Giroux-Cogliano-Jones
Omark-Brule-Reddox
MacIntyre-Fraser-Jacques.
Petry with Vandermeer.
Dubnyk starts
Man, that a hurting lineup. One genuine NHL forward, and it's Horcoff.
Ribs: Would that lineup beat the Hershey Bears?
ReplyDeleteOr the OKC Barons?
ReplyDeleteIt's sad that it is a pretty fair question, Henry. It could be close.
ReplyDeleteI think someone mentioned this in a prior thread, but would everyone here be saying the same things about the Chara hit if it was, say, Jordan Eberle in the hospital with a broken neck after Robyn Regehr ran him into a stanchion?
ReplyDeleteI don't think that people are being disingenuous, but I do think that sometimes internal biases can alter your perception a little bit. For example, see the Hastorf study that Derek Zona mentions here. Habs fans are probably going to be more likely to see intent in Chara's actions, while people who are, shall we say, less fond of the Habs will probably be inclined to view it as an accident. I don't think that they're consciously trying to reconfigure the events in their heads; it's just the way they see it because of their own biases. Similarly, if Eberle was on the receiving end of a hit like that, I think a lot more of us would be up in arms about it.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteNoodles: Well I think most Habs fan can see intent because theyr was prior history and he's been pretty much trying to rip his head off in the games after the little shove in OT.
ReplyDeleteOf course the best unbiased source would be a neutral fan watching the games.
My take on the Chara hit: He has been in the league for 13 yrs,been in a lot of battles,a lot of scrums.If you think he was evil enough to do that on purpose,don't you think we would have seen some evidence of that before now.
ReplyDeleteHunter you don't even have to go back to the Clark knee.
ReplyDeleteJust this year Cory Perry intentionally (I mean unintentionally) kneed and injured Shawn Horcoff.
Wow, with that lineup we're lucky if Detroit calls off the dogs and only beats us by 5.
ReplyDeletefpb: I have a small regard for both the Habs and Bruins, even the Leafs depending on my mood. Nothing too much either way, and I can dislike either one at the drop of a hat.
ReplyDeleteAbsolute malice I reserve for only for the Flames.
Chara creamed that dude intentionally, and anyone who believes that a NHL star player doesn't have the spacial awareness to understand simple motion+distance, must be going through life terrified of getting mugged.
Hockeyguy: Just check some other videos. He barely got shoved and flipped a notch.
ReplyDeleteOf course he won't have any record if each team he did something the league said ''Well he didn't have any record of...''
Re: Design
ReplyDeleteThe rink my town built in the 90s put 1/4 round glass pieces in the danger areas, so there are alternatives.
Re:Chara
Couldn't care less whether he intended it or not. He made an illegal play that resulted in someone getting hurt. If you take a risk of getting hurt to play, you also take a risk of hurting someone when you play and if you hurt someone, in the context of breaking the rules or making a dangerous play, there should be consequences.
By the way, this is a couple years old now, but I've found it to be pretty accurate, especially with respect to the Chara incident:
ReplyDeleteThe Down Goes Brown suspension flow chart
Cromeni: The substance used for the rims on the Ayatollah's Hummer.
Noodles,
ReplyDeleteYour link doesn't work.
Let's try that again:
ReplyDeleteThe Down Goes Brown Suspension Flow Chart
This thing needs an edit button.
docweb said...
ReplyDeleteI'm wondering if Mr. Katz is socking away all of the money he is saving from not spending to the cap in a special fund for:
a)the new arena
b)a new pro scouting staff
c)dynamite free agents when the oil
are "cup ready"
or
d)that special Batman Swiss acct.
I'm pretty sure he's using it to pay Sheldon Souray... But if there is any extra money being saved, I'd be much more likely to beleive that he's going to use it to leverage the last 100M that is unaccounted for in the Arena Development downtown.
Last I heard, Katz was throwing 100M at the arena and another 100M at the entertainment distract development. I think the city will have 200M to contribute in the form of CRL and ticket taxes, with the possibility of more from seat naming rights. If the magic number is 400M, and the province and feds won't throw in for it, I'm betting he leverages whatever he's saving off salary these next few years to cover the bet.
I watched that game when Pacioretty scored the overtime winner against Boston. When Pacioretty hit Chara after the goal, I was shocked and made a mental note that there would be more to come out of that encounter.
ReplyDeleteRetribution for real and perceived on ice injustices is a part of the game. Hard men playing other hard men taking care of business.
Hard men playing other hard men taking care of business
ReplyDeleteWhat's that now?
Greg MC: That sounds awfully truculent of you, but how's your eye glow? We might need to ship you a copper and blue jersey in an awful hurry.
ReplyDeleteGreg MC's new nickname is Tobias Funke, by the way.
ReplyDeleteBlah, I forgot a sentence there Greg. We need to ship you that jersey so our small players like Gagner won't keep getting hurt. I don't know if you know this, but truculence prevents injuries - this is a scientific fact.
ReplyDelete@FPB
ReplyDeleteMy apologies, I interpreted your statement as "these are NHL stars making this statement". I understand your point, but, I'm sure there are other nhlers on both sides of this debate and I doubt there is an overwhelming majority for either.
I agree with Lowetide that there was in fact punishment for the play in the form of a major penalty and being thrown from the game. It's an unfortunate incident, but bad things are always bound to happen in contact sports.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Bob McCowan reporting that Crosby's folks are pushing him to retire.
ReplyDeleteI've never given an opinion on this before but I've been reading about the concussion issue when a pathologist in WV started studying the brain of former Steeler Mike Webster. Since then I've thought there should be zero tolerance on head shots because the cat's out of the bag now in terms of the longterm implications and should we really ignore it?
ReplyDeleteI'd also like to see fighting outlawed because of this.
In regards to Chara, what Sedin had to say about knowing where you're on the ice had the most resonance for me. For that matter, I think Chara should have been suspended for anywhere up to five games and also that all rinks in the league should be modified to make sure this doesn't happen again.
If you've ever had anyone in your family with cognitive decline then you know how hard it is watch. And even that's a long way from some of the major personality changes one can undergo with repeated concussion problems. I can't imagine people going through even the mildest form of decline in their 40's and 50's when the likelihood of that factor could have been lessened.
I like watching rough hockey and I like watching the fights but I could do without it and I think it's something that has to change in light of all this new information.
The way equipment's made has to be changed and the way we penalize certain behaviour has to change. And I thought that long before Chara ran the kid into the turnbuckle.
regarding the Oilers, there's not a damn reason to keep watching them for the rest of this year.
ReplyDeleteI'll tough it out as long as I can in order to make sure the SC's wind up as a full set but other than that I don't think they can pay people enough.
Ha, I am 5' 6" and 49, but definitely truculent. I try to hide my eye glow on account it seems to get me in trouble.
ReplyDeleteCrosby retiring would be amazing.
ReplyDeleteGreg MC, what's your faceoff percentage? jersey size? Can you skate backwards? I know where you can find some work...
ReplyDeleteonly 15-16 games of work though. After that, we have to see how it goes
ReplyDeleteAnd apparently Bettman re-upped for another 5 years. Coyotes still have their champion.
ReplyDelete@Dennis: I hear ya, bud. I have to watch them too.
ReplyDeleteFrom a fans' perspective, the only (positive) reason to watch is individual development, which is where the losses of Hall and Gagner in particular really suck. But there are guys playing now who you have* to believe will still be part of the team when** it finally gets good.
(* - unless you're a rubber-necker or a masochist, in which case the current 5-year trend is right down your alley)
(** - the rest of us gotta have H.O.P.E.)
Plus when you stick through a team thick and thin/thinner/thinnest/Twiggy/Karen Carpenter, the "thick" is all the sweeter as such time as it ever happens. Let's put it this way, anybody who hangs in through the end of this season has earned his stripes as an official Die-Hard™.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIt wouldn't bother me at all to go to international rules on headshots. People suggest it would change the game, but how often have you watched the Olympics or WJHC and consciously thought "man, this just isn't physical enough"?
ReplyDeleteAs far as accidental head shots go, someone has already pointed out the analogy to high-sticking. Accidents happen, but you're expected to be responsible for your stick (body) on the ice.
On Chara:
ReplyDeleteIt stopped being about Chara and the Hit in particular the minute Molson decided to step in. The letter he posted was a remarkable move, I tought. Here is an owner (one with clout, not a Mascott *Cough*Lemieux*cough*) who says: "there is a problem with player safety. It's ongoing, it's worsening and I hereby, as an owner, commit to make things better."
That's pretty big fucking news to me. Way bigger than Chara beheading Pacioretty (even tough said beheading threw a big-ass wrench in my team's setup).
Actually, Molson said he told his GM to raise the issue of players safety at the next Governors meeting. What's truly interesting is that where Lemieux said "if you guys don't take this seriously, I quit this shit", whereas Molson is saying "if Gauthier isn't listened to, I'm giong in."
Owners, the league's true bosses, acting on player safety. Wouldn't that be novel.
*sigh*
ReplyDeletegiong=going.
My engrish is rusty today.
NHL should really clamp down on this stuff and do away with fighting as well, but they're in a tough spot because most fans like "hard hockey" and the sport will probably become culturally irrelevant to a lot of Canadians if it's "europeanized."
ReplyDeleteDefinitely tougher to watch the team now, but at least having 2/3 of the rookie trio still skating on the top line is something to keep tabs on...
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely amazing that even a hint at Crosby retiring is out there. You'd like to just brush it off, but then there's Mario being in such a bummed-out state last month that he talked about not being part of the game anymore.
Maybe he knew something we didn't?
wow. looking at our lines tonight we have a 2nd line, 2 4th lines and a 3rd line in the ahl. this will be ugly again.
ReplyDeleteWatching that last Smac made me realize how little a role fighting plays in the game anyways.
ReplyDeleteIt didn't used to be so but they have marginalized it so badly that there really isn't much of a point.
If guys could grab the Avery and Cookes of the world and beat some sense into them then there is a point. That just doesn't seem to happen so instead you have guys you don't want fighting ending up going.
Hate to bring up Cherry being right again but fighting could serve a purpose still. Especially in a league where Cooke is still allowed to play hockey. They have mitigated internal justice but not replaced it with accountability.
I think Chara should have been sat down in this case just out of principal.
ReplyDeleteQuestion for the laywers:
If you were on the street and tripped someone but they just bruised their knee compared to if you tripped them and they were knocked unconcious and made them miss work, wouldn't that factor in?
Not sure it would but curious.
Maudite: Well i'm not a lawyer but the monnetary compensation would certainly be higher.
ReplyDelete@FPB
ReplyDeleteYeah, that should read pretty sure it would get factored in. Not 100% certain if the level of offense would change is what I'm curious about.
Does the consequence affect the degree of punishment? I think it does but definitely not willing to state it factually when there are enough folks here a lot better informed on the subject.
ReplyDelete*foolysst*: A new brand of cologne made for dithers.
Maudite: No but I think it's current they use the cases with more severe repercussions as ''exemples''
ReplyDeleteLT: My ongoing compliments on your penchant for publishing great historic photos. Awesome stuff.
ReplyDeleteI find this picture interesting in that I can't easily tell which team is going which direction. Usually there are obvious visual cues, of which Mickey Redmond coasting on the back check might certainly be one! However that picture makes just as much sense to me interpreted as Redmond coasting on the forecheck, the puck shot into the far corner, him preparing to cruise into the high slot, an unseen DET winger (Nick Libett? :) barrelling in on the boards closest to the camera. While it seems unlikely both Redmond and Leach would both be on their off-wings, it seems equally unlikely that Marshall Johnston would be so intent on the forecheck rather than the backcheck.
No matter how you interpret it, at least one guy on each team was out of position. Of course, these were the Seals and the Wings.
Any clues in the caption where you found it, or other insights?
WG:
ReplyDeleteWhat are the odds on the oilers tonight?
They have to be at unheard of levels.
If they aren't, where do you go to bet the house on the wings?
nevermind, I just got into my shack and I see it's started already.
ReplyDeleteI suspect when Eberle hits 41 points, his hands will start shaking any time he's in the offensive zone.
ReplyDeletefortfal - The season when castles and forts crumble.
Does anybody know of a feed for tonight's game? They seem to be harder and harder to find lately...
ReplyDeleteThe games are getting harder and harder to watch too..
ReplyDelete@itsaleaf
ReplyDeleteTrue, but I'd still like to see it. There's only a few weeks of Oilers' hockey left before another long, long off-season.
Stauffer from Team 1260 in Edmonton has been going on and on about how the Red Wings are never heard complaining about anything. They get away with tons of interference, they can put their sticks on the opposition without a penalty but not the other way around and they use "picks" better than any other team in hockey. They don't complain about the refs? No shit, Bob.
ReplyDeleteInnocent until proven guilty.
ReplyDeleteNot enough evidence against Chara.
Sure, he might've done it intentionally; the question is whether it's proven beyond reasonable doubt.
In some cases, like Bertuzzi on Moore, Boulerice on Kesler, or McSorley's swing, there was no plausible explanation of the event that didn't involve malicious intent. So, there's strong evidence of intent. So, you say guilty and not innocent.
For all of you in an uproar, isn't it at least plausible that this sort of hit could be done accidentally on some occasions. If so, isn't it plausible that Chara didn't do this intentionally?
The it's a penalty + injury therefore suspendable argument is stupid. If I trip fpv during a game, he falls and bleeds to death because he doesn't clot, I'm guilty of tripping only. I couldn't control his bleeding, I didn't foresee it. Same with other plays that lead to injuries.
The quality of argument is on the decline today.
The Oilers were +450 to win in regulation and I have never seen that before.
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers played a great first period and did as good a job protecting the front of their net as I have seen all season.
Plus, the Wings look tight and were afraid to try and carry the puck over the blue and instead were getting their passes picked off.
I had the chances at 5-4.
Bruce: No, just what I mentioned and then a nice pickup earlier on McAneeley.
ReplyDeleteI read it as MacAneeley being the guy in position and suspect Johnston was playing up front this night. Delvecchio would have been playing a long shift and resting on the back check and Redmond was being a lazy bugger.
Stackhouse is a young player (as is Leach) so they're both after the puck.
But yeah, it could be going either way and interesting you mentioned it.
This is what Oilers fandom has become: discussing pictures from the 1960's.
ReplyDeleteUp next: where does Seeing Things rank in the pantheon of great CBC shows!
Didn't realize that "beyond reasonable doubt" was the standard of proof for a nhl suspension. I guess that's why suspensions are so rare.
ReplyDeleteI'm no lawyer but I'd assume that players on the ice owe each other a duty of care and that the young habs injury was a foreseeable outcome of pushing him over the boards into a stantion at high speed.
Wayne and Schuster would have to rank up there and I think the Tommy Hunter show has to be in there.
ReplyDeleteSingalong Jubilee was the best summer replacement series ever and Chez Helene blew.
@ Kris
ReplyDeleteLol, that wasn't me debating that was me asking.
The quality part of the debate is that Semeko would skate over and do his damnedest to beat on Chara next game and possibly the one after.
That no longer is possible. Thus the discipline side of the equation needs to err on the side of rigidly punishing.
A risk assessment and controls need to be put in place to prevent this from happening again (and all areas of the boards should be assessed for similar high risk contact points). Equipment should be adjusted so they no longer can act as missiles out there and so on and they just might have to start wearing large impact orbs as brains are getting squashed very severely.
In summary, sorry me asking for a legal opinion offended your higher level debating skills.
You're nitpicking Ned. I didn't mean the specific legal standard of reasonable doubt, just that there has to be strong evidence that intent was there. Innocent until proven guilty is a rule not just in courts but in being a good critical thinker.
ReplyDeleteIn the Airport in Phoenix, but when I checked they were +320.
ReplyDeleteI see they are up 1-0 with Jones scoring his 15th and they are outshooting the Wings.
All that's for real right?
I bet Babcock is bright red.
The olden days had more dirty plays.
ReplyDeleteDD moving really well tonight and great rebound control.
ReplyDeleteThe Wings haven't had a tonne of great chances but DD isn't making anything easy for them either.
Also,
ReplyDeleteThe job currently held by Campbell should be replaced by a board comprised of NHLPA (preferably ex-players), Referee (retired NHL ones) and Ownership elected safety Reps with all reviews and verdicts passed by some type of majority agreement.
Yes the olden days did, but also Mat Cooke would get the shit kicked out of him every game.
ReplyDeleteThey're actively hawking tickets on the Oilers website. Is that a first?
ReplyDeleteGod I would hate to be a season ticket holder right (with apologies to said holders if that's rubbing it in your faces).
ie:
ReplyDeleteThere was at least some form of systematic accountability. Now it's more like a roulette wheel what does and does not get any form of subsequent discipline.
If some kid in his first 40 games, who was playing for CBJ, took out Crosby in a similar fashion do you think he would have gotten away scott free?
ReplyDeleteI'm not so sure.
Wow Redmond is such a homer.
ReplyDeleteBertuzzi clearly sticks his hand out and directs the puck in.
Redmond is adament that's a legal goal. Dummy
Bertuzzi stripped by Struds.
ReplyDeleteHighlight of his season.
Rich
ReplyDeleteThat play looked like a Mastodon trying to chase down a hippo.
Nice itsaleaf. They both have the mobility of beached whales.
ReplyDeleteIf some kid in his first 40 games, who was playing for CBJ, took out Crosby in a similar fashion do you think he would have gotten away scott free?
ReplyDeleteYes. Like Boulerice's attempt to murder Kesler.
There was at least some form of systematic accountability.
No.
Yes the olden days did, but also Mat Cooke would get the shit kicked out of him every game.
No. Maybe some games. He'd have his guys protecting him and would be valued for agitating and for hurting hated players. Everyone hated each other MORE back then and respected less.
This is old hat. I say we agree to disagree and never mention it again.
Cogliano is having a "saw him good" game
ReplyDeletesweds (we need more)
BTW that was my verification word, not a spelling error.
ReplyDeleteCogliano gets a stick in the face
Man. Cogliano has had a tough season with high sticks.
ReplyDeleteHartikainen was 1-2-3 +3 with 7 shots tonight in an OT win for OKC. Lordy.
ReplyDeleteGive Cogs credit for battling. By the end of the season he won't have any front teeth - top or bottom.
ReplyDeletegreat play by reddox.
ReplyDeleteI wish you could buy stock in something like, "The Red Wings will not have to kill the Double Minor, the Oiler's will be called for a penalty at some point". I would have put a nice wager on that.
ReplyDeleteThis must be what it was like playing Cuntreal in the 70's?
Figures
ReplyDeleteEvery freaking time I say something nice about the guy - whammo.
ReplyDeleteUncle.
Sometimes the hockey gods build us up just so they can tear us down. What an unfortunate ending... I feel for Dubnyk more than anyone. He deserved better.
ReplyDeletewhat a fucking joke. Erickson gets away with murder on Horcoff and the whole game really. nice win refs.
ReplyDeleteGotta feel for Dubnyk tonight - hope they start giving him 1A duties next year, he has earned it.
ReplyDeleteI don't usually harp on the refs, but did I just imagine at least two blatent stick holds by the Wings of several seconds each? Including taking the stick right out of one Oiler's hands?
ReplyDeleteFuck the Wings, they should rot in Hell.
*maball* is what they can lick
http://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=3605#comment-315778
ReplyDeleteFuck the Wings, they should rot in Hell.
ReplyDeleteIt's frustrating, but they're a good team, wether they get the calls or not. Hate the refs - they're the ones who don't know how to do their jobs.
They so had no business being in that game. Dubnyk looked like Roloson in there tonight. We may have ourselves a goalie here for a long long time.
ReplyDeleteKris: Well as he was facing the pole, (If he said he didn't see the pole i'd call him a flat out lier). Theyre was no other outcome with the check than the other guy hitting the pole.
ReplyDeleteSure you can't prove that Chara intented the consequences. BUT you can prove that Chara's actions had no other possible outcome and that he could see the pole being there.
Even if he didn't want to kill him, he acknowledgly did something very dangerous.
He should be suspended 5+ and if I was Pacioretty i'd charge him in court.
The Wings may be a good team, but you didn't see much proof of that tonight. They played a lazy game that wouldn't have won against a better team or real referees.
ReplyDeleteThey may have been playing down to the competition, but they weren't much better than the Oilers tonight, and that is saying very little about them.
The Wings have been getting the benefit of a doubt since the days of Chelios and Shanahan and Yzerman with the two of those guys being undercover whiners who never seemed to shut their mouths.
ReplyDeleteDD played great tonight and looked so clam as to inspire confidence and if a fan can see that then I'm sure the players can sense it even stronger.
there was a picture of 13 on the bench with fresh stitches and fresh hell from tipping in that Wings goal and he looked absolutely beaten.
But cheer up, kid. Over on ON Brownlee praised you for your durability and that scat-reference lover doesn't even like fresh air.
The Oilers played a very nice game at EV and lots of nice little heady plays and probably one of their best in that regard this season. 10 was making great reads all night in his own end but to my eye he looks to have lost the step that separated him when we first saw him.
LT: today Renney pretty much earmarked TH and Teubert as the last two call-ups so I imagine we'll see them soon.
TH has been scuffling for awhile now so let's see if he can get hot again.
BTW, any idea of the Barons have favourable sked down the stretch? any way of handicapping their playoff chances?
When it comes to getting the calls, Detroit is the new Montreal. No question.
ReplyDeleteNice effort by Dubnyk tonight, I remain impressed with Gilbert and Petry. Finesse defensemen can be effective.
Honest.
Funny thing about these guys who have reputations for not hitting enough; Penner & Gilbert being two examples.
ReplyDeleteAll they do is make positive plays and stay in the line-up every night. Could there be a connection between not running guys and staying healthy?
That goes against everything my testicles tell me about hockey.
Dennis: A rough look at OKC's chances. I think the SoS is weighted by goal differential.
ReplyDeleteoops:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.sportsclubstats.com/hockey/USA/AHL/Western.html
Gog: thanks, bud!
ReplyDeleteLT: my guess at the D for next year:
6-Larsson
49-77
2-58.
Teubert as the first guy to get the call down with OKC.
I don't see any reason why they didn't deal off 2 at the deadline unless they haven't already talked contract with him and I think 5's back on the market come the draft.
I'm not saying that's a good top six but I'm not also convinced that the Puppet was being sincere when he said they were gonna try and contend for the playoffs next year, either.
I'd put forth Ted McAneeley as well. Sad the things you can remember...and the things you can't.
ReplyDeleteAny more cracks about these guys being worse than Hershey? :-)
ReplyDeleteNice effort tonight. As much as we have been critical of Renney, he somehow got the team working tonight.
Stauffer had a nice line in the second period: "Jones is playing like the priest in Caddyshack. He's having the game of his life."
And OTT wins again. COL looks like the main threat now.
I don't see any reason why they didn't deal off 2 at the deadline unless they haven't already talked contract with him and I think 5's back on the market come the draft.
ReplyDeleteDennis,
Hopefully they put 2 in the pressbox and keep 5. He has looked pretty good in the last month or so.
I loved the Oilers effort tonight, but leave this game absolutely incensed at the horrible job of officiating. Devorski and Pochmara weren't just incompetent - we're all used to that - but the huge majority of their questionable calls/non-calls favoured the Red Wings. Really one-sided bullshit, three phantom calls on the Oilers while Detroit was routinely picking if not running guys away from the pouck all night with nary a call. It was to the point where I was questioning their impartiality. Not just the calls, but stuff like ignoring the Oilers having possession of the puck on delayed penalties and not blowing the play dead. That happened twice, including on the tying goal when Strudwick clearly chipped the puck around the boards and Devorski, five feet away and still in the act of putting his arm in the air to call Strudwick for the penalty, wilfully ignored it.
ReplyDeleteWorst officiated game of the year. They directly influenced the outcome of the game.
according to AHL rules the 5th place team in the West can displace the 4th place team in the North for the 8th playoff spot. Same with the 5th place East team over the 4th place Atlantic based on points and tie breakers.
ReplyDeletesiccen ... pronounced "Sick-en" ... the continual pile on of injuries siccen us all.
@bruce ... the list of travesties from the refs tonight is so long, I don't know where to begin.
ReplyDeleteBlatant favoritism. It was pathetic to watch from that perspective although the effort from the Oilers was amazing.
Thought DD was superb !
armerli - the NHL term for letting the american teams win ... lol
steve mcintyre with 0 minutes in the game..... seriously. was he the backup goalie. that has got to hurt. i feel for the guy in that he seems decent enough, just doesn't have the skills to play at this level
ReplyDelete@maudite,
ReplyDeletethey should change discipline to be 2 nuns, 2 hockey grandmother's and 2 hockey mom's ... by the time they pulled the player's ears and yelled at them and lectured them the players would feel shame ... and then the ladies would get mad and hand out 10 and 15 game bans ...
lol
http://nhldraftvideo.blogspot.com/2011/03/ryan-strome-2-goal-hit-100pts-plateau.html
ReplyDeleteMore Strome against Ottawa and Martindale.
It was a Good night to be cheering for the oil. Lots of hustle from a depleted corp. I'm happy if I'm Renney after that display.
ReplyDeleteRyan Jones with almost 25 minutes of ice time. Tom Gilbert and Laddy Smid with almost 30. That is good stuff when it goes to overtime.
Horcoff and Cogliano split the face off duties and both went for 35% against the 4th best face off team in the league. This night it didn't look that bad.
Eberle looked a tad slow on his line and I hope it's just an adjustment thing. Horcoff and MPS looked great together. It almost looked like Hemsky/Horcoff.on a few of those rushes.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=877278&page=3
ReplyDeleteExcerpts from the above on Strome
Strome's puck movement is crazy good. He handles that puck so well -- great puck carrier with amazing hands
- Great skating. He's fast and he's got a good first step. He's mobile.
- Insane shot. Laser shot. I can't say enough about his shot. His wrister is decent (my seat was right near where they were warming up) but he's a straight snipeshow with his slapper.
The rest is in the same vein on tonight's game
I think the reviewer liked Strome
I think he like Strome
Fun Fact: A guy we could have picked up on waivers would be tied for 1st in points and 1st in goals.
ReplyDeleteWhile being 22 years old and a PK'er.
LoL at management.
kris:
ReplyDeleteI'm not a lawyer, but my understanding is that you have to take your victims as the come?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull_rule
Speeds, I believe that's tortious law, which wouldn't be applicable to a situation regarding criminal prosecution.
ReplyDeleteBut I'm not a lawyer either, it's a shame there arent any lawyers around here.
In the NFL, when a team has a problem with officiating, they'll often send a tape to the NFL ref head after the game with problem areas pointed out. From what I understand, it's often effective in getting to league to pay attention to persistent problems or "yank the leash" a bit when a particular crew screws up badly.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know if there's an NHL equivalent for last night's game?
ducey: I don't believe 2 will come back in a Strudwickian role, ie the 7th D.
ReplyDeleteand I really don't see anyway where all four of 5-49-58-Larsson can be in the top six.
so, how much money is 28 gonna get on his new Oilers contract?
ReplyDeleteI feel like this stretch drive is more about the Ryan Jones salary push than anything else.
@fpb .... sorry miss the reference. Which waiver wire pickup are you referring to ?
ReplyDeleteGrabner ?
does he have periphal vision ?
"you can prove that there was no other outcome than the guy hitting the pole."
ReplyDeleteFalse. And certainly not proven. Chara could've hit him in the same way and pushd him into the glass or just over the boards, if he had been going slightly faster or slower. Easily could've happened a million different ways.
Why not believe that? And why believe that Chara intended the dangerous outcome of hitting the stanchion, than the otcome of Pac. hitting the boards or the glass.
There's no evidence whatsoever that this wasn't a hockey hit and an accident. And your insistence isn't evidence. Nor is Montreal homerism.
Speeds,
ReplyDeleteYeah, in terms of damages you owe them. But you still have to show that someone was responsible. It's quite possible that Chara was making a hockey play. Pac. has agreed, at least informally to accept the dangerous consequences of all hockey plays simply by playing hockey with Chara.
So before there are damages you have to show that Chara was doing something other than making a hockey play that accidentally went bad in a way that Chara isn't responsible for. (I'm playing pretend lawyer.)
No one has offered that evidence at all, and that's why the league didn't fine or suspend him.
LT and HOil, just look at Lidstrom, the ultimate example of how a finesse defenceman can be effective.
ReplyDeleteOne of the reasons Lidstrom has had such sustain and avoidance of major injuries is exactly because he doesn't run around hitting everything. He uses positioning/angles and stickwork to be so effective. Also he's really smart so it's hard to catch him with his head down.
Remember when Murphy and Lidstrom shut down the toughest line in the NHL? Two finesse defencemen did what every other defence in the league couldn't do, stop the Legion of Doom.
Physical D is important and awesome, but finesse players can play defence as well, and can be very effective. Don't understand this "hit somebody" bias that's so prevalent in the MSM and public.
I recall Fedorov said in an interview that Ovechkin is super talented, but the only thing he wishes is that he wouldn't run around hitting everything so much. That he needed to learn how to pick his spots and rein it in a bit or he'd wear down in a few years. Just something to think about.