A guess would have Magnus Pääjärvi and Jordan Eberle with Horcoff; Ryan Jones and Linus Omark with Gagner; Reddox and Brule with Cogliano and MacIntyre and Jacques with Fraser. Did I miss anyone?
--
With OKC Barons in a life-and-death struggle for the playoffs, it's no surprise that the club didn't call up anyone yesterday to help the forwards. Usually the AHL team has a long period off during the week, but unfortunately for all involved this week is busy for both teams. Oilers play Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday and Sunday; Barons play Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday and Sunday. Hartikainen may have to wait until next year to make his NHL debut.
--
Craig Button comes from a scouting background (his Dad started the Central Scouting Bureau) and his top 30 list shows us just how much variance there is from one list to another. His list is here. I'm especially surprised at his ranking of Sean Couturier and Dougie Hamilton.
--
Nation Radio hits the air at noon today on Team 1260. Guests include Tyler Dellow from MC79 hockey, Jason Gregor from Oilers Nation and Kent Simpson from the Oil Kings broadcasts on Team 1260. You can send your email questions and comments to nationradio@theteam1260.com this morning.
How long until SMac on the first line?
ReplyDeletePosted this in the last thread, but Motin sent to Stockton.
ReplyDeleteLooking over your list Lowetide, one thing is clear: Oilers need some NHL hockey players.
ReplyDeleteBadly.
Woodguy: Yeah, I saw your earlier post. Motin was facing some of the tougher opposition earlier in the season according to C&B, but that clearly wasn't the case as the season rolled along.
ReplyDeleteHe does have another year on his entry level deal, so we'll see.
--
hunter: I think they'll be coming through the minor league system. It's going to be difficult to acquire free agent veterans with the offload.
btw, Elliotte Friedman was on Oilers Lunch yesterday and confirmed Schenn was the asking price from LAK and that the Oilers wanted Johansson from Columbus.
So, yeah. Rebuild.
Is this the place to discuss the Penner trade?
ReplyDeleteI heard that with Penner gone, Burger King is thinking of closing up shop in Edmonton.
If I can't get my Whopper fix, I'm going to be some pissed at Tambo
As will I
ReplyDeleteThe best we can hope for now is to see PRV and Omark take the extra responsibility and run with it. Development is the red headed step child that nobody counts on, but it would be a big plus to see these two prospects take their games up a notch with the opportunity that will be afforded them. We wait.
ReplyDeleteActually, I'm kidding about the Penner thing.
ReplyDeleteDiscussing his trade that is.
It would be nice not to see him mentioned here today.
I think we've been around that mulberry bush enough times.
Gime an AAAAAAAAAAA,
Gimme a VVVVVVVVVVV...
My question to Tyler Dellow:
ReplyDeleteI know his reasons for picking a team like Blackpool and cheering for it in Premiere league. So what will he do if Blackpool gets relegated? pick another team next year? So why not pick a team like Everton/Aston Villa ot Tottenham?
@ mr debakey
ReplyDeletei am all about the spice chicken sandwhich!
Discussing his trade that is.
ReplyDeleteIt would be nice not to see him mentioned here today.
says the guy who started it :P
You're bringing that hotshot ''Lawywer from Toronto'' on your show?!
ReplyDelete;)
Hmmm. Button's Dad may have been an innovator in the world of scouting, but his own track record doesn't necessarily give me a lot of confidence in his lists. I can see him being like KP in that he may feel smug by going off the charts.
ReplyDelete@ Flossy
ReplyDeletewe should play him with horc and hope he gets injured
Going to sleep now after poker with the guys...will wake up in time to watch the game...any suggestions as to what I should watch for? SMac on the PP screening the goalie perhaps? Goodness!
ReplyDeleteAside: The upcoming draft has me puzzled. A lot of ???. Glad I don't have to make that decision.
Why are you surprised about Couturier, LT? Has he been having a scoring outburst for the last month?
ReplyDeleteHall is done for the season.
ReplyDeleteAll you could have hoped for after discovering the 3.0 rebuild was a healthy finish for the rookies. This is pretty disappointing.
Re-build three point oh:
Glow fades like the setting sun
Their show has been run.
-A haiku by a hungover man in Vancouver.
Barons signed Helmer to another year. Nice. Link
ReplyDeleteLT: what time is Ty on? First?
ReplyDeleteI'm heading to the gym now but I don't want to miss that segment.
Oilers recall Giroux per Oilers twitter.
ReplyDeleteThe two guy fans in the posts pic gave me a chuckle just now.
ReplyDeleteA lot of these rankings may have something to do with the age difference. If you look at Ryan Nugent Hopkins for example, and then Landeskog, Larsson, Sean Couturier (which many would argue are ahead of Hopkins) there is quite the age difference.
ReplyDeleteNugent Hopkins is 5 months younger than both Larsson and Landeskog. He is also 4 months younger than Couturier. This isn't a huge difference, but there is certainly growth in Nugent Hopkins game (maturity alone will be significant).
Could this give Hopkins the advantage over the other names mentioned when deciding who would go first overall. That notion that Nugent Hopkins has much more to give in development than many of the other highly ranked prospects?
@ Rain Snow
ReplyDeleteits just like Hall/Seguin
I dunno, looking at that list it looks like a good year to trade down that first pick. The lists I've looked at all have that top 7 all mixed up.
ReplyDeleteWould a smart GM try and morph the 1st and 20th overall into maybe the 4th and 5th pick??
LT: How much relevant is that list? From what I've seen he's one of the worst scouts ever. Kinda like if KP (Well he did draft some good players)_just punted out a list, or the Minnesota wild's scouting team.
ReplyDeleteI think it's an interesting thing.
Do you think we should mixup the list from scouts with good records, and scouts with bad records, taking for fact theyre's both in the NHL to make a list more closer to the actual draft?
does anyone have an idea on timing of sending some of the Oilers to help OKC ? Which regular season wraps up first ? If OKC makes the playoffs, who on the Oilers roster is eligible for post-season play in OKC ?
ReplyDeleteWould Eberle be off to the World's again ?
Any thoughts ?
buctoupo ... the 8 headed goalie monster ... worse than the 3 headed one.
"I dunno, looking at that list it looks like a good year to trade down that first pick".
ReplyDeleteYeah, quantity for quality so our 30th place team can...um...well...er....
So, ten'll getcha eleven Hartikainen moves up to play with Moran & McDoanld.
ReplyDelete'Yeah, quantity for quality so our 30th place team can...um...well...er...."
ReplyDeleteThe top seven seem pretty even so why not pick two of them instead of just one. Just saying....
Isn't their a Kent Simpson that also plays for the Everett Silvertips?
ReplyDeleteAs has already been said around these parts, the percentage of RNH's numbers which come from the PP should be a big concern going forward. Please, please stay away MBS.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to see the Oilers find another pick in the top ten, possibly with the LA pick and the 31st overall. Larsson and Strome on draft day would go a long way to helping Oiler fans forget how terrible the on-ice product is, and will be for the foreseeable future. That is until late October rolls around again.
Oiler Mag: Please forgive my response.
ReplyDeleteAs a veteran of the 2003 draft, when Oilers traded down and ended up with a bust, I simply no longer trust them to get anything right.
Then there's the year these clowns had three 1st round picks and not only one of them categorically refused to sign for the team(Riley Nash), but the other two(Plante and Gagner) haven't exactly set the league on fire either.
Nosiree - I just want these guys taking the one player they honestly think is the best available from what looks today like a top three selection, because stupid people(and any management team that picks 30th twice in a row MUST qualify as being dumber than a doorknob)...
I could go on endlessly, best to sftu.
First time listening to Nation Radio. Wow, LT has an awesome radio voice.
ReplyDelete@ raventalon
ReplyDeleteYeah their goalie
Oilers tweet...
ReplyDeleteGilbert Brule did not skate this morning.
Good grief.
Regwald:
ReplyDeleteThe Barons, like the rest of the AHL will submit their "clear day" roster on Monday. We'll know then who will be eligible to play for the Barons should they make the playoffs.
The Oilers are only allowed to make four recalls after the NHL trade deadline, so the chances of them "re-assigning" Omark/Eberle/Paajarvi and then immediately recalling them after making the Barons' clear day roster seems a tad small. I don't expect OKC to be getting much help from the Oilers in the coming weeks given our injury problems. For them to have to give up Giroux for an extended period of time is going to cripple them. I wouldn't bet on playoffs for any Oiler, unless they're like Johan Motin and Jordan Bendfeld; playing for Stockton.
Tencer...
ReplyDeleteGiroux is recalled and in for the Oilers tonight...Brule will be out for the Oilers. MacIntyre in on 4th line. Dubnyk starts.
Oilers tweet lineup...Should have a better chance at being correct over Tencer...
ReplyDelete91-10-14
28-89-23
12-13-85
22-16-33
@dorito,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the info.
How bad is Brule playing if he can't even crack this line-up?
ReplyDeleteFantastic interview with Dellow.
Like crall good.
March.
ReplyDeleteWhere the second season begins in Edmonton. That is to say, the Draft Season.
Not to say this is ideal, but in the situation where we are on this draft high, develop within scenario, does it not become important to draft for position as well, since we're building this 'cluster' to play together? As we've seen, nobody is trading away their Schenn-caliber guys, so why should we assume they'll be available for fair value if we need to rebalance the roster? I just believe the system is far, far less fluid than it would need to be in order to be able to ignore that consideration.
On the other hand, we have holes like, everywhere, so it's a bit of a moot point.
kinscita: What LT calls the Sedins
anyone else having issues with the online radio player?
ReplyDeletePlayer crapped the bed for me as well.
ReplyDeleteSeems to be back now.
ReplyDeleteyup
ReplyDeleteLT.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the chance that Lander comes over to help the Barons?
I wouldnt be opposed to keeping Marincin in the dub for another year. The grind of the season is starting to get to him.
ReplyDeleteFirst time listening to Nation Radio. Wow, LT has an awesome radio voice.
ReplyDeleteLT was a Top 40's radio DJ in Red Deer for years.
Gregor just said on LT's show about Brule:
"I don't want to speculate, but from what I'm hearing its not a nagging injury, but an "ailment""
Hmmmmmm
Gregor made a point on the radio that I think got lost in all the questions about whether Hall should have fought or not: he's been taking a lot of crap from opposing players. Dorsett was already roughing him up and slashed him twice prior to the fight. The NHL promised, after the lockout ended, that they would crack down on the hooking, holding and slashing that had slowed down the game. Five years later, it seems their commitment to that has been lacking. A penalty gets called on Dorsett and we don't see that fight.
ReplyDeleteBetween this, and the egregious headshots, the NHL is hanging their talented players out to dry. Good thing that MacIntyre hockey is so exciting.
Is there a link to listen to that noon discussion with Dellows? Curious who that guy was bashing this time. lol
ReplyDeleteWG
ReplyDeleteagreed abt LT
Also Brule has been put on IR many times when he was suffering from 'ailments'
Is this the place to discuss the Penner trade?
ReplyDeleteI think we need to finish debating MacT's role as coach first.
OK no ways we get Weber at 6 million....wtf?
ReplyDeleteWeber at $6M seems like a pipe dream. But if it could be done, would you take it? It's interesting...
ReplyDeleteOk that Keith and Weber comparison was not a good one from Gregor
ReplyDeleteAlso I think Weber is worth 2 1st and whatever
Interesting discussion about Webber, but when you have as many holes as we have now, no way management (in it's current mind set) gives away the # of picks required to get him.
ReplyDeleteAlthough it was interesting to hear Gregor accurately point out that it's not as if what Anaheim got for Penner has really helped them (since they traded the pick that became Tyler Myers).
oilerdago
Offering Weber a 6M contract over 4-5 years is a no-risk plan that either fills an organizational need going forward or gets rejected/matched and you lose nothing.
ReplyDeleteSent this in an email to the show, but Lander saved the day today with an assist and a GWG to prevent Timra from going to relegation, love that kid
ReplyDeleteWell there is the risk that something freakish happens and Weber becomes Souray 2.0, but that's a risk I take without losing any sleep.
ReplyDeleteAt the danger of getting way ahead of ourselves:
ReplyDeleteWeber-Gilbert
Whitney-Petry
Pekham-Smid
That's not a bad top 6.
Jeremie Blain with 3 A last night. Now with 35 pts in 35 G.
ReplyDeleteI think it has gotten to the point where we should ask whether Brule has a drinking problem or some other personal issue. Never has one man missed so many games with so little explanation.
ReplyDeleteIs Plante playing tonight?
Cactus...
ReplyDeleteWeber plays the right side. Same side as Gilbert.
"Flu-like symptoms" has traditionally been code for "hangover," but I wonder these days if it's code for "post-concussion syndrome." Hasn't Brule taken a couple of knocks to the noggin in his career?
ReplyDeleteOf course, after our experience with Pisani, it could also be indicative of something more medically serious.
@ Froese...Shea Weber will cost much more. offering Weber 6 million for 8 years is low balling him!
ReplyDeleteIf his cap hit is less than Bowmeester for a contract less than 10 years i will be very very surprised
You'd be looking at Whitney Weber
ReplyDeletePeckham Gilbert or Smid Gilbert
Smid Petry or Peckham Petry
Foster
Spoiler: thanks, I caught that just after I posted.
ReplyDeleteSum: I think if it's $6M for 4-5 years that's a non-starter... but an 8 year deal? That's quite a substantial offer and I don't think Nashville can match that. The only question is whether other teams jump in at that price
Maybe Brule has leprosy. The team wants to hide it, because if other teams know Brule has leprosy, they miht target him with body checks to see if they can make his arms fall off.
ReplyDelete8 years at 6 million is riduclous for Shea Weber. Duncan Keith has average salary for 8 years for Keith is 7.218 million
ReplyDeleteWeber will certainly cost as much if not more for an offer for 8 years!
SumOil,
ReplyDeleteI know. Almost for sure that offer gets rejected/matched. I'm saying you take your 5% odds hitting a home run because it costs you nothing.
The calvary is not coming.
ReplyDeleteThere will be no Weber.
aqrdayvm: the process of sending smoke out of ones back side to divert attention away from the actual issues.
First time listening in today LT. Great job, I really enjoyed the show.
ReplyDeleteAs a UFA, I'd wager Weber could garner a 9MM/year salary. Maybe the deal gets a tail on it to bring down the cap hit, but the league has ruled that the tail has to be within the bounds of common sense.
ReplyDeleteAnd Weber is so good, he might be worth the offer sheet.
If you were going to try, I'd offer 8.0MM/season, front loaded, for 9 years (takes him to age 34) with a two year tail of 5MM and 3MM. (Maybe you can push that, I don't know.)
You have to remember that the cap will be much higher by the time he's 30, and he may be near the best D-man in the game then, so 8MM might be low for him.
But it's still high, and maybe too high for Nashville.
We lose the, what, 4 picks, but we have two first picks this year, multiple seconds last year, etc. If you add Weber, you might want to try and sell a d-prospect, or Cogliano for 2nd round picks to lessen the hit on the future.
It's worth it, IMO, but it won't happen.
Trading Penner, to me, is suggestive that EDM management isn't overly interested in the playoffs next season. I think it's too risky to sign Weber to an offer sheet given that EDM looks headed for another top 5 draft pick in 2012. If EDM had retained Penner, decided to spend to the cap and fill some other roster holes, I could get behind an OS to Weber or Stamkos, but I think it would be a pretty poor risk at this time for the Oilers, given the size of contract/compensation required to sign Weber to an OS that NSH wouldn't match.
ReplyDeleteThat's an interesting discussion to recall Giroux.
ReplyDeleteOn the one hand it sends a message to future AHLers that they will get some kind of a shot with the big club if they do their work down in the A but on the other hand it cuts the legs out from under the minor league club.
The question is:
is it worth the optics to give Giroux the recall over the possible damage it does to the minor league's playoff chances and the experience it would give to the kids therein.
Earlier I was gonna suggest that the Oilers pull a one for one where they recall Hartkianen and in return send down 85 because we know what 85 can bring to the big club and he'd likely help the Barons more than Teemu would.
But this is an interesting move from a few angles.
That said, I think DET is an excellent candidate for a team that could sign Weber to an offer sheet.
ReplyDeleteThey have a need for a #1D going forward, they have the cap room for Weber - just give him Lidstrom's money if Lidstrom retires. They also get a chance to weaken a division rival by either getting one of their best players or by forcing them to spend a lot to keep him
I think Mike nailed it.
ReplyDeleteIf this team had kept 27 and we're interested in not being a lottery team again next season, then it might be a time to throw that offersheet at Weber.
but the way things are going now I don't think it's the right time in the least.
Oh yeah, and regarding the question about competing next year.
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers will have at least 22MM this offseason to add to the lineup. (15 guys under contract)
They need 3 top 9 forwards, a top pairing d, and a top 4-ish D, and a 1a goalie to pair with Dubnyk.
2 top 9 forwards: 5 million and 4 Million
3rd line forward, 3MM
Top pairing D, 6MM
Top 4-ish D: 2MM
Goalie: 2MM
You might have to trim that a little here and there in order to fiddle around with the rest of the lineup. But there should be some cheap deals available to RFA's like Smid and Reddox.
It could've been a killer team, bt now you need to replace Penner via UFA, which is difficult.
And Tambellini wants us to lose again for prospects, even though we could win, and we will already have Hall, Larsson?, Eberle, MPS, Gagner, and about 10 decent prospects in the system.
I'm being rudalin, now.
Watching the Kings game now and thinking about the contract Mitchell signed and that's exactly the kind of deal we could have used this coming summer.
ReplyDeleteI see all this garbage here about "well we are a 30th place team with 27 and 83 so what's the difference in trading them" and those are people who don't understand what a trainwreck the Oilers defense is and how it's not even good if Jesus Whitney finds health.
We've seen the relcorsi and the scoring chance stats and 4-14-10-27-83 was a top six that was ready to go for next year. then you pick up a couple of vets for the forward corps and a couple of D.
but now it gets even harder and especially so when 83's dealt off.
as someone just said, when is enough enough for prospects and picks for Lowe and Co? when do they dig in their heels and try to be more than laughingstocks?
and to get back to my point about Mitchell, who's really gonna sign here when it's such a trainwreck?
Yeah, there's no way we're offer sheeting anyone now.
ReplyDeleteTambi's comments the other day stated they were looking for 6 more solid draft picks out of the next two drafts.
That ain't happenin in offer sheet world.
kris,
ReplyDeleteBodychecking someone with leprosy is a very bad idea. Though funny, bodychecking is one of the easiest ways to contract malaria.
Kris:
ReplyDeleteI think they could be have iced a pretty respectable team next year as well, but if they were interested in making the playoffs why wouldn't they have kept Penner? It's not that likely the Oilers could find a Penner-equivalent, period, on the UFA market this summer, and even less likely that he'd sign for less than Penner's making.
If they're considering spending to the cap and trying to ice as good a team as possible, it doesn't make sense to me to trade away a guy that's relatively cap efficient, open up a roster hole, and yeah you've gotmore money to spend but can you spend it as well as you coul have on teh guy you just had?
Hall-5MM-Hemsky
ReplyDelete4MM-Horcoff-Eberle
3MM-Gagner-MPS
Jones-Cogliano-Omark
Reddox
Whitney-6MM
Gilbert-2MM
Foster-Smid
Peckham, Vandermeer
Dubnyk
2MM
Khabi (jail)
If you're signing guys on 1 and 2 year overpay deals, the UFA's you might get might not rule the world, but fuck if that isn't a solid playoff team.
I'll be quiet now.
If any of the kids out there wanna see the Broad Street Bullies vs. The French Connection, they're playing each other on the NHL network right now.
ReplyDeleteParent just stoned Martin.
HAHAHAH that lazy fatso(Penner)…..wins the puck…draws a penatly and scores the goal against the nucks...
ReplyDeletehuman- something that Penner isnt
Speeds,
ReplyDeleteAgreed. I did say they won't do this and dealing Penner makes it harder to do. (Although the picks and Teubert could be dealt for help now, if our GM was clever enough.)
Frelbo,
It was not a joke. Brule's leprosy is a very serious matter. He will now need a face shield to keep his face from falling on to the ice in the event of a high stick. I propose a 6 minute penalty if a high stick cases Brule to lose a piece of his face.
Dennis
ReplyDeleteScott Reynolds is tracking LA scoring chances now...so there is a GDT at C&B, if you wish..join!
When Brule drops the gloves, his hands will come off.
ReplyDeleteI believe we should push this meme until it becomes so popular the Oilers need to correct it.
Kris:
ReplyDeleteAnd I do agree that the 4.25 mil in cap room gained should factor into the Penner trade calculus
The trade was:
Penner
for
Teubert and a 2011 1st
But for EDM management maybe it's more like:
Penner
for
Teubert, a 2011 1st, ~1 mil in cash, slight improvement in expected value of the 2011 EDM 1st round pick, whatever 4.25 mil buys on the UFA market*, potential improvement of the 2012 EDM 1st
*Or, if they only spend some portion of Penner's money on UFA's this summer, that player plus the money saved in 2011/12
kris: I really appreciate your optimism because I'd like to have something to look forward to Oilers-wise next year and as a sidenote the classification of ReKhabby in jail was gold:)
ReplyDeleteBut, you've got a team here with poor pro scouting and a reputation that's prohibitive towards signing UFA's so I can't see them plugging three holes in the top nine via that route.
The Oilers have earmarked some of their moves with quotes like Lowe talking about 4 to 6 years and the brass earlier talking about Lander being here next year too.
So, next year I'd suspect that the top six is 4-14-91-10 and the first round pick if he's a forward. I'd suspect Lander's here and Hamilton's too.
I suspect all hands laughing with glee as another lottery pick's collected.
the baffling part for me is that the oil didn't use the waiver wire at the deadline, just so we'd have some bodies. there were lots of decent players on the last year of their contract that would have been cheap solutions to our always hurting squad.
ReplyDeletethe brule thing is a tough to watch. you've gotta believe he's fighting through something pretty serious. there's been no indications throughout his career that he had substance/alcohol issues. It makes me wonder how he met the kid that he donated the money to in the summer.
http://www.theprovince.com/opinion/letters/Oilers+Gilbert+Brule+donates+Edmonton+child/3053255/story.html?id=3053255
and re: motin to the ECHL...better him than teubert.
also LT, my word verification for this post is "vasectomy"... not cool
I just went back and looked at the games the Oilers lost by 1 goal (or 2 with an Empty net).
ReplyDeleteThere's about 20 of them. In about 3/4 of them they allowed a PP goal.
Conceivably, if the can fix the special teams, they aren't THAT BAD.
5 0n 5 they can hang with most teams and that's a positive. I don't think things are all doom and gloom for 4 years.
Fix the special teams, add two actual NHL defensemen and a couple of defensively responsible forwards(one being a center that can win FOs) that can play toughs and they aren't that far off.
Everything's been so negative, I figured I'd try and look at the postives.
BTW
ReplyDeletePenner scored for LA today
itsaleaf: losing 27 is gonna make a difference to how adequate we were at EV.
ReplyDeleteand losing 83 for more picks will hurt even more.
it's easy to cheer for LA with all our former players...
ReplyDeletebut, it makes you realize that we consistently punt guys just as they're becoming consistent durable NHL players.
list of next available players about to make the grade and get traded would have to include: cogs, gags, gilbert, smid and omark.
hopefully we get some draft picks...ugh
Dennis:
ReplyDeleteThat is probably true.
But, it's getting to the point that moving Hemsky isn't a bad idea. Paying 5+ million(if they re-signed him) per for 60 games a year isn't a great idea.
I just don't think it's as bleak as everyone is making it out to be. Granted, what they do with all this cap space is what makes the difference.
I can see Hemsky and LA's pick, or our 2nd, being used to get into the top 10 at this draft.
ReplyDeleteitsaleaf; we've been waiting for years for the Oilers to address holes via capspace and so far all we've gotten was 16-26 and Khabby.
ReplyDeleteSo, I don't trust the pro scouts either and the more we trade away established players the harder it's gonna be for other established players to find a reason to want to come here.
Regarding 83 and a longterm extension, I said a couple of months ago that I didn't know if he was worth the risk given his injury history.
but as soon as I see that become a meme then I must remind people that 6 falls into the same area and he seems to be a guy who's more loved than 83 in that regard.
@ Dennis
ReplyDeletei agree w regards to Hemsky. If I had to choose between the two, I would have kept Penner
this draft has a big D, a big winger and two prominent centres and the Oilers will only have one lottery pick.
ReplyDelete4 now has a history problem and 14's teeth are too far apart and much like 27, they haven't said they Don't want to be Oilers going forward but they never said they want to be either.
So, would the Oilers deal off 4 and 14 and try to get three lottery picks and start Monday's rebuild all over again?
maybe this new rebuild with 4-14 will come a bit too fast for Lowe and his puppet so maybe they'd like to push it back even further and pick up three lottery picks from the 2011 draft and draft Larsson plus Landeskog and a pivot besides.
I don't see that happening, Dennis. However, there is a scenario where the Oilers stay in the second division so long that Hall balks at a long term deal.
ReplyDeleteFree agency is at 25, and the Oilers could run out of railroad track. Moving back the competition timeline now is crazy, because you're not going to keep Hall by trading off other good players.
That's a pretty bleak future Dennis...remind me...why I am getting out of bed in the morning..?..:)
ReplyDeleteSomebody is spending a fair bit of effort to set up the ol'
ReplyDeleteFace Off in the corner joke.
pordlk will get ya every time
LT etc all: I was joking...the giveaway was the line about 14's teeth being too far apart:)
ReplyDeleteit's just me lampooning how it's never time to try and win with these clowns and the timeline's always being pushed back:)
Dennis: Eberle's teeth are too far apart?
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't count on extra room because the cap goes up - salaries will inflate as GM's use the extra to go after or retain good players.
ReplyDeleteIt's likely best to think of the cap in percentage terms - top line 25% of cap etc.. Marquee player 7-10%.
As for the draft, in a weak year only the very top picks are going to pan out as good or better players. in a deep year you might get good out of later picks.
Trading down a few slots and getting two there (1 for 4+ and 20+31 for 5, if anyone would bite) could mean you end up with 2 average or worse guys instead of one good or very good.
LT: that was the only flaw I could find with him.
ReplyDelete4 has the built-in excuse now with the injury thing; and I used that because I expect it's trotted out when 83's dealt.
Dennis: Oh I think 83's gone. Elliotte Friedman was on Oilers Lunch this week and said the asking price from C-bus was that big C Johansson.
ReplyDeleteI can see the Oilers and Jackets making a deal around that in the summertime. Seriously.
I'm off to find a photo of Jordan Eberle..
I think 83 will be dealt for Bogosian.And good riddance,that punk is injured all the time..:)
ReplyDeleteLT: he has those chicklets/shark's teeth.
ReplyDeleteTwo of my best friends were brothers that I grew up with and they have the same thing happening and I always make fun of them:)
And I wouldn't bet a nickel that 83 stays; the dye is cast and only 6 and 10 are safe.
I'm just waiting to see if we get ripped off again.
He'll never get a tooth knocked out if the puck can just fly between them.
ReplyDeletebuounts= What never go the Oilers' way.
The only team I could see that would want to move their pick is BOS moving TO's, (which is currently 9th, will probably end up close to that as the two teams directly in front of them are NYR and CAR)
ReplyDeleteWhat does BOS need next year?
They currently have 53MM and 19 players under contract.
Brad Marchand is RFA and will get a raise.
Looks like the need well priced actual NHL players to flesh out the roster.
Those do not exist in Oil Country.
We need to stop talking about cap space and start looking at cap floor here.
ReplyDeleteineogi: A traditional christmas beverage distilled from copper and blue oil's that clouds a person's judegement and look hopefully towards the future. At one point the effects were extremely long lasting, often into spring, but the oil extract in the past 5 years has been found significantly weaker than previous.
maud: Yes, especially in light of news in the slight decrease of season tickets.
ReplyDeleteJust because many of you have finally reached where I've spent most of my Oiler fan life, doesn't make it any easier.
ReplyDeleteThis is nothing more than a feeder team to the big clubs, always was and always will be.
So Hunter if it's completely bleak, there's no hope, never was, never will be, why are you still watching? Exhibitionist masochism? :)
ReplyDeleteLA Kings have a new catch-phrase for old 27, "Pennertration." Maybe we can use Smac to screen on our power play instead...
ReplyDeleteHunter: it is more and more beginning to resemble the Expos and I think that's what's most disappointing is that we were told things would change when the cap came in and now it's getting back to the bad old days in terms of other teams being ahead of us.
ReplyDeleteAlso, there seems to be a problem with pro scouting in terms of recognizing the value of your own players.
or maybe that's the problem of the GMs
@Dennis, I was at the Oilers game vs. the preds. There were tons of empty seats in the lower bowl--owned by season ticket holders, but the nose bleeds were sold out.
ReplyDeleteOn that note, looking at the Oilers' cap space, this has obviously been a very good year financially for Mr. Katz. I've said it before and I'll say it one more time, we're Ballard's Leafs 2.0.
Hemsky has to go now. After five years the Oilers finally have a plan and they have to commit to it. I don't like any part of this entire scenario and I don't think it will be executed properly, but they have to deal Hemsky now. In fact, if the decision was made they both should have gone at the deadline.
ReplyDeleteYes and no Hunter.
ReplyDeleteI watched player after play pack his bags. Not because:
1. Edmonton wasn't world class enough
2. No one wanted to play here
I watched them leave for the legitimate reason of they could get paid more somewhere else.
The game has changed. No longer are we the poor training center for the economic powerhouses. No longer are we long on heart and short on talent. We survived all that. Put down hard money on that. Cheered like hell through that.
People don't want to play here for the following reason:
1. We suck
2. We are mismanaged to the point of insanity.
3. The fans willingly form lynch mobs and show very little class towards actual NHL players when they do come here at the whim of management.
Tom Gilbert isn't the problem. Tom Gilbert is getting hammered on. Much like Horcoff before him (still some residual MSM hyped hate). Much like Penner before him.
Until the fans enmass stop blaming the players for managments short comings, who in their right mind would want to come here?
Souray said a lot of bs in his rant. At the same time I think there likely was some valid points. This group nicks players to get blood for the sharks when it suits their image. Unless you are a player that is such an embarassingly piss pour signing that in order to cover their ass they constantly call him the MVP...
besed: A synonym of cursed with one major difference. Those besed are somewhat deserving of the ill-fortune they find themselves in.
Cactus:
ReplyDeleteFair question.
Dennis provides one of the answers.
1. We suck
ReplyDelete2. We are mismanaged to the point of insanity.
3. The fans willingly form lynch mobs and show very little class towards actual NHL players when they do come here at the whim of management.
I agree with all of those points. I do think that the city itself has to be in there, probably at #4 - if not for the lack of world classity, at least for the shitty travel schedule.
The Oilers will always be at a slight disadvantage to other teams when it comes to signing free agents, all else being equal. But making all else equal would be a huge step.
Kings lose in regulation.That 2 of the last 3.
ReplyDeleteThat's a shame.
I think it's possible we see a sign and trade situation with Hemsky in the offseason. With his injury history, he may agree to an extension and trade if it's on the table.
ReplyDeleteSo what does 4 year@5.25M Hemsky get in trade value?
Ryan Johansson? Schenn?
The kings just lost, and have a tough schedule ahead. There's a real chance they can miss the playoffs, but their goal differential suggests they won't be the team that finishes 9th.
In the last 5 years, how many other teams are even close to us when it comes the number of 1-2nd year NHL'ers in the lineup? Is there any team even close to us in trading away actual NHL'ers and getting a pick and a prayer in return?
ReplyDeleteThere could be but it would be a pretty small number.
troac: doing the same thing numerous times and expecting different results.
Hypsyme: saying the same thing numerous times and expecting different responses
ReplyDeletehumeness: Trying to justify poor choices to the point of delusional humour.
ReplyDelete@ Steve Smith
ReplyDeleteAgreed, there are more exotic locals to be a millionare in. Same time detroit is not one of them. :)
Same time detroit is not one of them. :)
ReplyDeleteRight, but Detroit's got a much better travel schedule.
hmmm...post deadline day, and i'm cheering the oil to lose. when i have i thought that before?
ReplyDeleteouchabs: the reason for Brule not being in the line-up
In fact I wish Detroit would have kept winning cups, as I think I like their model the best.
ReplyDeletePull some draft horseshoes out of your ass and let your prospects properly develop. Sign and never deal actual NHL players.
That is true. I'm hoping Gillis continues to push on scheduling as that will help us as well.
ReplyDeleteIs this rebuild the best idea? Is it being executed in the best way possible (I think just about everyone has answered this already)? Even if the answer to both is no, it still differentiates itself from the previous 4 years of management in that it is a coherent strategy and just as in chess or war or (fill in strategic analogy here) the only way to succeed over the long term and not simply by chance is to have a plan, make sure it's good and commit to its proper execution.
ReplyDeleteObviously, Oilers fans are impatient because it's five straight years of no playoffs including 2-3 without any hope ofit. However, I believe it would be a mistake to lump this whole period together as one consistent failure. The much-deserved criticism of Oilers management for lacking a coherent plan from 2006-09 seems to be colouring analysis of current moves, both good and bad.
In other words, it's good to keep a critical eye on the Oilers - there's a good chance they'll make/are making some bad calls in implementing this plan. Claiming universal doom and pre-emptive failure for this strategy - only 1 year in - however, seems quite premature.
If the Oil somehow went on a Devis-esque (or '89 Indians-esque #winning!) tear here to end the season and fell out of the lottery, I wonder if that would cost Tambo his job...
ReplyDeleteCommonfan:
ReplyDeleteOur MVP should tilt the odds in our favour to make sure that doesn't happen. As sure as SMAC hopping over the boards with a couple minutes left in a game where we are leading.
With Elliott slated to start the Oiler could actually win this game, even with their top 3 scorers gone.
ReplyDeleteHow hilarious is that?
am i crazy for thinking Don Cheey was dead on tonight?
ReplyDeleteWhat did he say? I was barbequing salmon for the kids and drinking.
ReplyDeleteMaudite: Include a pre-lockout multi million dollar budget.
ReplyDeleteI agree completely that we now have a Plan, patent pending, but the guys that came up with the Plan are the guys that f__ ked things up royally 2006-2009.
ReplyDeleteThe Germans had a Plan, patent application refused, in 1939 but it was actually a very very good Plan, just poorly executed. Now the thing to ask yourself if you needed an NHL management team to screw up execution on a good Plan (not conceding for a minute it is a good plan), is there anyone better?
Absolutely love the business writer wrote article today that raised a number of really really basic questions about the proposed arena. The questions he raised are getting great traction. Like why none of the property developers are interested in committing to the development of the surrounding area.
The Germans had a Plan, patent application refused, in 1939 but it was actually a very very good Plan, just poorly executed.
ReplyDeleteWould you say that Poland was aquired via the draft, Italy via free agency, and France was an offer sheet? In this scenario, I think Tambellini = Neville Chamberlain.
(from Wikepedia)
In the aftermath of Munich, Chamberlain pursued a course of cautious rearmament...later in October, he resisted calls to put industry on a war footing, convinced that such an action would show Hitler that the Prime Minister had decided to abandon Munich.
Really?
ReplyDeleteWe're likening the Oilers to military tyrant that's responsible for murdering millions of innocent people?
I think you're lacking a little taste, and a lot of perspective on that one.
Danny: if you take that literally, I would suggest that you're the one lacking perspective. It's satire. It's not like I'm saying Brian Burke is Herman Goering.... ;)
ReplyDeleteThe best and quickest way to give power to an enemy is to fear their symbols and place them on a pedestal of untouchability. Because then your enemy, not you, controls the tone and nature of the discourse. Propeganda 101.
TOJ: Of course, that's the biggest problem. There has been no accountability for Lowe or Tambellini.
ReplyDeleteTwo other big issues:
1) Will this type of rebuild still work under the current CBA? It really sounds like the Oilers are willing to kill 5-7 yrs to get a very small window here.
2) What happens when this CBA expires? Will they find a way to adapt this time? How many more chances, years, or excuses will that provide?
I wouldn't get too fussed danny-we're easily distracted around here and prone to these tangets.
ReplyDeleteWe're likening the Oilers to military tyrant that's responsible for murdering millions of innocent people?
ReplyDeleteNo
I think he's hoping somebody fractures their ankle.
A really ugly serious one.
rustsub - Did Hitler have any of those?
Yeah coz there a govt out there who hasnt killed innocents...
ReplyDeleteHitler on Chamberlain (IIRC):
I thought he was a very nice old man, so I gave him my autograph.
Danny: the Holocaust was the attempted genocide of European Jews by Nazi Germany, not WWII itself or even militant German imperialism. I never mentioned, implied or satirized the holocaust, nor would I ever do so.
ReplyDeleteIf you're going to debate a point, make sure you first know and understand the relevant terms. Now out of respect for the others on LT and awareness of how these things can turn into utterly pointless flame wars, I won't say anything more on the topic.
Just a quick note here. It's all well and good to have fun, but to anyone who believes anything in sport is comparable to Adolf Hitler give your head a shake.
ReplyDeleteSeriously. There are lots of things we can reference before we go there.
C'mon guys, how could you want to fire Tambellini? The CBC tells us that the Oil are 6-3 since he gave the team an inspirational speech!
ReplyDeletewow. that'll endear you to the coach kid.
ReplyDeleteUh oh, better kill the thread.
ReplyDeleteIn the meantime, some crappy Oiler just took a lazy penalty.
Oh, actually it's the Teubert v1.0 that took that one.
With all the speed the Oilers have up front, the fact that Renney traps makes me want to punch smaller furry creatures in the face.
ReplyDeleteReddox is a beauty player.
ReplyDeleteRQ: Really?
ReplyDeleteRivers Q said...
ReplyDeleteOh, actually it's the Teubert v1.0 that took that one.
Ah yes, smear by association. Propaganda 102.
Wow. I was going to say we're downright fucked if Cogliano's being forced into PP duty but hey, there you go.
ReplyDeleteWhy does Gagner only step up like this once the season is long gone?
ReplyDeleteIs it safe to say Matt Duchesne goes 1st overall in a redraft? The guys a stud.
ReplyDeleteRibs, it helps when you're playing a team that's even more inept on defence than Edmonton.
ReplyDeleteThe hihg sticking/blood thing has got to be one of the strangest rules in sport.
ReplyDeleteYes really. You're officially no fun at all.
ReplyDeleteAnd yet you're here.
ReplyDeleteDammit...anyone have a link for the game?
ReplyDeleteDanny
ReplyDeleteThe Plan that I was talking about was taking a series of incremental advantages, properly gauging that the Americans, who were the decisive factor in world war I, were isolationist. That the French and British did not want a European war and the Soviets were simply worried about consolidating their power. Gobble up the Sudentenland, czechosloackia, merge with Austria, sign NonAggression pact with USSR etc.
Where their strategic Plan broke down was when they committed to a 2 front war: attacking the USSR too late in the year to avoid winter and declaring war on the USA after hearing the news of the attack on Pearl Harbour.
The comment is to have a Plan is good. That it is a good Plan is even more important than just having a plan. And execution on whatever the plan is, is imperative
I compared no one to Nazi's
To watch online? CBC's got a terrible feed, but it's probably better than nothing. Just head over to CBC sports.
ReplyDeleteRQ there's no shame in asking for a little tact. That's a pretty gut wrenching topic for some. Not something I'd call fair game for fun filled banter on an open forum.
ReplyDeleteHoly shit.
ReplyDeleteThe Plan I was referring to was not the Final Solution.
That was not a Plan, that was an abomination
well what the hell? We've entered the twilight zone folks.
ReplyDeleteTalk about getting the bounces.
ReplyDeleteSweet Jesus. They gut the roster and NOW the PP works. Lordy.
ReplyDeleteWho is the team in white?
ReplyDeleteFLOW!
ReplyDeleteWeekes, man. Just stop.
ReplyDeleteJohn, it was so obvious! Boy is my face red.
ReplyDeletemaocotim: cbc.ca. The hockey night in canada games are streamed live on cbc. The best stream quality you'll get online too. Wish TWN and Sportsnet wold follow suit...
ReplyDeletearser: what I am for making a WWII joke.
LT: Dare I say they've got coachable players on the PP now?
ReplyDeleteOr have the ST coaches finally said "fuck it, go out and use your talents kids"?
Penner was the power play coach. It all makes sense now.
ReplyDeleteObviously 4, 27 and 83 were the probem on the PP.
ReplyDeleteIt would be funny if this team went on another crazy percentages fueled streak like 07/08. If only to see if anyone learned anything from then.
ReplyDeleteI think when it comes to humour there is going to be a wide variance in taste.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to Hitler and WW2 it is gonna get reffed because this is something about which people read and watch and is also naturally archetypal - and thus will be used as metaphor.
Mithea
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ0mdxXw8Ac
ReplyDeleteOn a lighter note.
speaking of which, i think it in great that in an era nearly bereft of hockey nicknames Ryan Jones comes along and officially nicknames his hair, and by proxy, himself.
ReplyDeletethe NHL needs more "character".
Teddy Peckman is almost as good.
i do so hope that the oilers enter a nickname renaissance. not ure they've had any really good ones since Gator left.
RQ: You know what? I guarantee it would mean Ryan Jones got a 3-year, $7M deal. It's depressing. What a crazy game.
ReplyDeleteBrule comment on CBC. Said Brule came down with an intestinal problem. I know it's speculation, but could he be fighting the flu or is this ongoing battle like that of Pisani ? Crones or Colitis. Given the number of games missed this year, I think it's gone beyond the flu.
ReplyDeleteIcecastles: the NHL.com feed blows all the others away in quality... but you have to pay for it and it gets blacked out sometimes.
ReplyDeleteSweet Jesus. They gut the roster and NOW the PP works. Lordy.
ReplyDeleteFor the record, LT predicted exactly this when we talked off-air this afternoon.
Well, we probably won't be seeing any more of Plante this game.
ReplyDeleteEven money says Plante doesn't play next period.
ReplyDeletedanny said...
ReplyDeleteRQ there's no shame in asking for a little tact. That's a pretty gut wrenching topic for some. Not something I'd call fair game for fun filled banter on an open forum.
Did you ever work at a video rental location in Salt Lake City?
RQ, yea do I know you?
ReplyDeletedanny said...
ReplyDeleteRQ, yea do I know you?
No, but I understand now.
So Weekes pretty much watches a different game than the rest of us.
ReplyDeletehard to believe the knock on prospect Eberle was his footspeed.
ReplyDeleteWG: the Oilers blogs may be full of good debates and divergent opinions, but I've never seen anyone defend Weekes - perhaps one of the few points of universal agreements.
ReplyDeleteMakes me long for the days of Hughson and Simpson, when the stupid Leafs fans were stuck with Bob Cole.
Maudite: Sweet, sweet video. I may have a stroke but it's worth it. Thanks so much for the link.
ReplyDeleteThe powerplay has seen some grit and puck retrieval that has been long forgotten.
ReplyDeleteAnd Gagner needs to figure this thing they call an 82 game season. Yeaahh...training camp ended a couple games back...
Bucky's giving Girous advice?
ReplyDeleteProbably talking to him about investment options for his 401k
According to ahl.com, Teubert scored at 19L42 into an empty net and the OKC Barons won in OT.
ReplyDeleteMan. That Glenn Beck video is the best comedy ever. Sweet Jesus.