What else did he do? Well, despite being one of Ottawa's best players he never managed to be a hometown favorite. He was always doing things like attacking Montreal's Newsy Lalonde with such vicious intent the police had to get involved. He was a dirty player, and at times his own team would fine him for going too far with on-ice behaviour. God knows what they'd do to him now, likely lifetime ban.
Ottawa finally dropped him, and the legend states he swore revenge. Eventually landing in Montreal, Cleghorn flattened 4 star Ottawa players on his return--Cy Denneny, Frank Nighbor, Tommy Gorman and Eddie Gerard. The league tried to ban him, but two teams refused to do it despite all the evidence that pointed to unacceptable behaviour.
He was by any stretch a great player, elected to the Hall of Fame in 1958 (two years after his death). One final thing: Sprague Cleghorn missed all of the 1917-18 season with a broken ankle. He suffered the injury while walking in Montreal.
--
Today's game has the #29 team facing #30, so it could probably use a Sprague Cleghorn to make it interesting. Ottawa traded Mike Fisher this week and Daniel Alfredsson is injured so this should be two points for the home team. How often have we been able to say that with a straight face this winter?
--
Pierre Lebrun is a credible source. His article for ESPN this week (it is here) includes this item:
- one name I am told intriques the Kings is Ales Hemsky of the Edmonton Oilers.
Having said that, my preference would be for the Oilers to keep Hemsky and Penner. I keep reading that re-signing both is impossible but looking at the cap numbers it would seem as though that is folly. I think there's a real danger here in declaring the four horsemen as the future on the wings (four horsemen: Hall, Eberle, Pääjärvi and Omark) this soon. Surely one of them will not deliver on promise, even as we agree the dice have no memory.
--
I write about David Staples every once in awhile and have at times been less than completely respectful of his error counting. No matter my feelings on that issue, it is an absolute fact that he makes his case with clarity and conviction. His recent defense of Tom Gilbert (latest item here) has been both entertaining and brave. I've long defended Gilbert (example here) and suspect it's one of the things that got me onto that colorful site with all the big words a few months ago. Defending Tom Gilbert earns you howls of derision.
It isn't easy posting three articles in a week defending a finesse defenseman in a hard rock town. Bless you, David Staples. I'm with you.
--
Gilbert Brule is getting better. Whatever the problems he appears to be on track and will soon be on the big league roster. I've been a little suspicious of the way his story has been handled, because it looks for all the world like the Oilers are trying to sneak through this season without exposing someone like JF Jacques to waivers. And keeping Brule out in order to save JF Jacques is crazy squared and squared again.
Either way, Brule is close to ready and one hopes he gets a chance to play quite a bit before the deadline. A hot streak might increase his value should a trade opportunity arise, and it might be a plan to let him play center since he wins faceoffs more than half of the time.
--
First edition of "NATION RADIO" goes today at noon. The archive will be up at Oilers Nation soonafter the show, so if you want to listen after today's game that is the place to go. My first guest will be the legendary John Short and we have several scheduled guests over the 2 hours, but there will be time to get calls and comments. If you have any questions for John, you can post them in the comments section and I'll do my best to get to them.
I'll be browsing this thread for questions and comments and may use a few on the show. You are welcome to post questions but I do hope you'll also add comments. This blog's charm is in the comments section, so keep it coming.
I will be running around doing errands so I will PVR the game and catch your maiden voyage. I'm looking forward to it.
ReplyDeleteI am looking forward to the show LT. Unfortunately I will be able to only listen to the archive....gonna go watch the game with a couple of buddies.
ReplyDeleteI really liked the Gilbert defense and really like the player too. His traditional +/- would have been much better had his on ice Sv% been better.
I think most of the fans are expecting Gilbert to have a season like Whitney was before his injury. However, Whitney's scoring rate was much higher than his career scoring rates. Next season when Whitney comes back from his injury and is not able to score at a similar pace as this season, everyone will talk about him still getting back to the pace of th game or rehanging from injury, when that would just be a simple regression to the mean.
Morning LT. Happy Hockey Day. I'm celebrating with a 6:50am atom practice and appreciate your early offering. Good luck with your inaugeral (spelling?) Broadcast; I will listen with interest at a later date as I am fortunate enough to be attending the game at Rexall today.
ReplyDeleteOttawa has scored lesser goals and given as much as us, almost. They are 0-8-2. That team is showing no signs of life and they are my bet to finish for the first overall.
ReplyDeleteOn an unrelated point, considering our top 12 is as it was last game, whose spot will Brûlé take, Jones, Reddox or Omark? If it's not JFJ, my bet is on Omark being sent down
SumOil: I think that's why they've waited so long on Brule. They can send him down for a conditioning stint, no? OKC has about 9 days off here, so I'll bet he fails the test and then they send him down for a couple of games next weekend.
ReplyDeleteThat puts it at the 20th or so, and then they can muddle through to the deadline from there. But my guess is a trade happens before Brule makes it back.
jmo.
Lol it took me four click to go from John Short's profile to sunshine girl!
ReplyDeleteMy question is: With more and more fans and bloggers exploring the micro-stats based analysis of the game, have the members of the sports media tried to understand the application of terms like corsi and other micro-stats?
That makes sense and for Brûlé's and Oilers' sake I hope it is done before roster moves need to be made. However, I am ok with JFJ being sent down to keep Brule
ReplyDelete1920/21? You were what, 30 at the time LT?
ReplyDeleteSeriously, how do you know these players? I'd guess from a book, but I didn't think anyone around hockey at that stage was literate, much less wrote something worth reading.
Good luck and congrats!
ReplyDeleteWill have a reason to toon in to 1260 a bit more often now.
L.A. is OUR best trading partner. they have the best defensive prospects of any NHL team. if a team like Edmonton states day in day out that they dont have a backend, the should be scouting all of L.A.'s prospects.
ReplyDeleteand YES , Lombardi and Crew are desperate to make the playoffs. im not sure Hemsky would get u Schenn and Voynov but a throw in player to help the Kings make the playoffs maybe in order. Id do a BLOCKBUSTER in order to strip L.A.'s prospects system.
Hemsky, Foster, Jones
for
Schenn, Voynov, Forbort
Voynov is NHL ready now and he would be called up Immediately upon this trade. grabbing these D prospects sings us a new tune come the june draft...
we wont go out and stock up on Dmen who are ages away from the NHL.
if u dont like Forbort, replace with either Hickey, Teubert.. L.A is stacked!! oh by the way Voynov leads the AHL in Dman scoring. he is no slouch!!!!
this team is a WIN WIN situation.
I meant trade..... sorry. lol
ReplyDelete@ Anon
ReplyDeleteI think Nashville has the best defensive prospects in the nhl, wuth LA being close.
Going into the future, this is great. First pipeline show from 10-12 and then this one!
ReplyDeleteHungover saturday mornings just got exciting
LT: congrats. good to see one of our own getting a shot on the radio. So should we expect segments like:
ReplyDelete= the Corsi minute
= O zone/Own zone/ caller zone call in segment
= obscure old nhl player trivia
= saw him good vs moneyball prospect updates
Happy to see you get a shot to turn this awesome blog into something of a career. Your insights make it great, and the quality of comments always keeps me coming back. The question for all these comment junkies on this site, will you you in with your blog handle or your real name. will we have a closing segment every week called:
= bloggers unmasked
should say will you "call in" above. coffee not kicked in yet.
ReplyDeleteWith Fisher and Alfredsson out gone and out, I fear that Neil and Carkner will have a little more ice time to use for evil purposes.
ReplyDeleteI hope the reports are wrong and that MacIntyre dresses. The Oil should be able to put in a good showing with only three real lines. Some games call for us to sacrifice a roster spot to Big Mac and I think this is one of them.
Just finished watching the melee between the Pens and Islanders. When a team has little skill and nothing to lose like Ottawa, there's a higher probability that mayhem can take over. The Oilers need to be prepared for this one.
LT...
ReplyDeleteDon't know where you've been disrespectful to Staples or the error stat. Seems to me you have treated he and it with your usual utmost courtesy.
What is disrespectful is The Journal placing Staples blog posts amongst it's regular articles. As such I have to hold his blog to a higher standard than the rest of the Blogosphere (along with the MSM backing in the first place) and IMHO it is wanting. It's not that great a blog, much less of article quality. But I had never been a fan of Staples' regular writing.
And they say if you don't like a site, don't visit. The Journal makes that damn near impossible by disguising the posts as articles.
So I just don't visit Journal Sports all that much any more except Matty's weekender, which is pretty sad because I have loyally read the Journal Sports Page since 1974. All over a lousy blogger (oh and a horribly designed website too).
SumOil...
I thought you were going with Zona's draft order from a couple of months ago? You were pretty insistent at the time that Zona had put a lot of work into his conclusions and sounded pretty confident that's the ways things were gonna work out. I believe your bottom 4 were Leafs, Oil, Isles and the Devs in last.
:op
I just wanted to say "Good Luck" before starting this new endeavour. I started reading your site back in 2005 when I was teaching English in the Land of Morning Calm. You, as well as Pat from Black Dog Hates Skunks, were one of my daily sources for all the things that went on with that wonderful team that season. Unfortunately I missed every game that year except the heartbreaking game seven.
ReplyDeleteAs for the debate about trading Hemsky or Penner, my head says this may be the time to sell high for a change with Hemsky. I agree that he is "the straw that stirs the drink," but his history of injuries over that last few years has me concerned. If something like Boston's first round pick from Toronto or Zack Bogsian were within reach I think they'd have to take a shot at it.
Don't know if I will catch your show down here in Cochrane, LT, as I will have to be near a computer to hear it live. But at any rate:
ReplyDeleteBreak a leg!
Can't think of a single bloody thing I would want to hear from John Short that I haven't heard already. I'm not sure MSM guests are your best bet. We kinda already know their thoughts on things. Guess John will be good for stories for the next gen though.
Spoiler
ReplyDeleteI take it you are not a fan of the tv show 'House' Going with the diagnosis that makes the most sense at that time. I am pretty sure you did not expect Kovalchuk to not be a 20 goal scorer by now. Its a dynamic process and Derek's arguments made more sense at that time.
If I am not wrong, that was early-mid December, when we still had a healthier team and were on a winning streak. It looked like that we might just be able to avoid the top 3 pick.
I like David's articles. His stats are more unconventional than others, but his work is solid. Him and C&B were the first ones to support Penner after his diappointing season 2 years ago. David always acknowledges his mistake and doesnt let bias cloud his judgement. I like the cult of hockey and it has gotten more colorful since Bruce started writing there. I think it is a must read.
Good luck w/the new show LT. Am traveling w/my son's hockey team this weekend so will have to catch the archive.
ReplyDelete3.0 does have the advantage right now that he doesn't have to trade Hemsky or Penner - so he SHOULD ask for the moon. What's the worst thing that can happen - they stay?
Re: Brule coming back, let me ask the obvious. Why wouldn't you send out Smac? He's not been a deterrant, he's not used (:25 and :27 of ice time his last two games) he's just taking up space.
They claim to see something w/JFJ (I think someones smoking the drapes), so he's not going. The Ginger may not clear and is useful on the PK. Would hate to see Omark go anyhere right now and Struds is too valuable in the locker room.
One question, other than a cap friendly number, what value is there with Brule?
imo
With Montreal being so battered on the backend, and a lot of talk about how they cannot compete with the toughness of many of the playoff teams in the east, do you think there is a possibility that they may be willing to claim Souray if he were brought through re-entry waivers?
ReplyDeleteWow the great John Short as your first guest. What a classy move Lowetide.
ReplyDeleteI will certainly be tuning in at 12pm to hear your first show and even more importantly to hear John once again. I spent most my teenage years listening to Mr. Short on the radio before going to bed.
Assuming Katz hasn't placed a gag on every single Oiler employee, it might be a good idea to try to interview some of the lesser lights in the organisation.
ReplyDeleteMost will probably be thickoes, and therefore just give the usual sports yap(which is okay for you running a sports show lol), but you might uncover someone who will inadvertently talk about something that's going behind closed doors that we're not supposed to hear.
I would love to hear you interview MBS.
ReplyDeleteHearing some insight on how they make their decisions would be compelling (if He would share some of it)
I would also like to hear you interview Lowe about old timey days, and Renney about what advanced stats the Oilers keep on their own players.
If I could figure out who is in charge of Oiler Pro Scouting, I'd ask you to interview him too.
G'luck LT!
As for questions for Short.
ReplyDeleteSome good Pocklington stories are always good.
Jason Gregor got his start with Short (as did many others), maybe you can ask Short to tell Gregor that some humility goes a long way, and its ok to be wrong sometimes. :)
Hey LT; long-time reader here & at ON. Good luck on the show today!
ReplyDeleteWhen I read articles at ON, there seems to be a division between the "numbers/statistics" writers, and the "gut feeling" writers. I think you fall in the middle, which I appreciate, because I see value in both.
Here's an idea that might help matters (albeit only slightly); differentiate between "Production" and "Performance" - right now the two are interchangeable, but it is fair to say that a player can have an excellent performance on any given night, but could still look horrible on the boxscore - their "production".
Statistics and mathematical analysis are a key part of my career, so I love being able to quantify a player by something so elegant that it allows us to rank and order on some sort of normalized scale. However, too often it seems we build a case to reduce ice time/trade/demote a player but all we've done is build off of production, and not consider performance...
(Off thread I know, last time I post it, but I posted it on a dead thread)
ReplyDeleteAnyone here would like to make a simulated hockey league? Using EHM it's very sim (Like you can't make a roster full of rooks and win).
I'd set up a site and sim.
Think it would be a friendly competition between members of the forum.
Bottom 5 teams in the NHL this morning via pts %
ReplyDeleteTOR .473
NJD .429
NYI .409
OTT .382
EDM .370
Western Conference standing via pts %
VAN .718
DET .655
DAL .618
NSH .591
ANA .589
SJS .589
MIN .583
PHX .580
-------------
LAK .565
CGY .561
CHI .555
STL .538
CBJ .536
COL .509
EDM .370
@ fpb
ReplyDeletewhat is it? is it like a fantasy hockey?
SumOil: Well everyone gets the original team's roster from the start and you can trade what ever you want from there. Or we can do a fantasy draft.
ReplyDeleteI like to instate some rules to keep it sim (Player can't get trade 3 times in a season, or can't get traded unless he plays 40 games with the club)
SumOil: It just doesn't have a relation with what the players do in real life (Exept theyr ratings), which affect the outcome of the game.
ReplyDeleteEveryone could try and be better than Tambo. XD.
Short is a great choice.
ReplyDeleteGilbert is neither as good as some think nor as bad as others think. Merely adequate, but nothing special. His salary makes him less attractive.
Staples has been nothing but even and fair with both his attitude and content. Kudos to him. He takes a lot of undeserved crap from commenters.
Tencer's 'preview' Tony Hand piece was on the Oiler's website yesterday. I think that's a tell that you will have trouble securing guests from the org LT. I suspect that they fear that they will not get the same 'editorial control' from you that they do from their current toadies.
As others have said - Break a Leg.
Lowetide:
ReplyDeleteYou have made my day. Apart from your radio show having John Short as a guest is sublime. His breadth and depth of sport knowledge leaves others in the dust.
Good luck with your show.
Fpb
ReplyDeleteIt sound interesting...count me in
LT
ReplyDeleteGood luck on the first!!
John "first time caller" how many times did we hear that. Real Classy 1st pick. Love to hear John's view on how the Oilers control the message of the MSM then and now
Gilbert is a pretty decent second pairing D man on a very good team. One in conference or SCF. He will never be physical but so what. Nor was Randy Gregg.
I keep thinking Columbus is desperate to make the playoffs. Johanssen could be in play and I would prefer him to Schenn
I tried to mount a defence of Gilbert based on facts (stats) over at ON but was overcome by guys who complained he "did not hit enough".
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that Gilbert will "improve" once he is on a team that can actually forecheck and cycle. Half the time he seems to be down low in the offensive end trying to recover the puck. If the forwards were able to do this, he could concentrate on coming late into the slot - something he excels at.
I'd love it if you used your show to talk about Corsi and the puck going in the right direction. You could do tonnes to educate the masses, as you have educated me.
Gabe Desjardains would be a great guest.
Do NHL teams take any of this statistical analysis into account or is it in its early days as it was in baseball 15 years ago?
I'd also like you to explore roster construction. The Oilers have many talented but small, soft players. Can they have guys like Gagner, Cogs, Omark, Eberle, Hemsky (I know you think he goes to dirty areas but he does not initiate anything), Reddox, and Brule and have a "contender"?
The directive went out to MBS in the last draft about size. So we know what the Oilers think.
I'd love you to explore how many smaller guys the Oilers can have in two years. Who should go?
Its an interesting topic. Most people agree the Oilers are too small, but when you start talking about who should go, they get a little emotional. I'd keep Eberle, Cogs (his speed makes up for his size), and Omark (he is tenacious). I'm on the fence with Gagner (he will be good but so would a Bogosian). The rest should go (including Hemmer).
Oh, and, Smac, what is it good for?
Good luck LT. When I call in and start rambling drunkenly please please do not cut me off.
ReplyDeleteHave been without family for nearly two weeks now and I need the company. ;)
Actually will catch your debut after the game and there will be no drinking, I'm playing tonight, I have enough problems without playing loaded. I'm sure you will knock it out of the park and I look forward to it.
I think the Oilers are looking at top three pick at worse. Sens are just awful. Islanders' goaltending is their problem but they can score. Moulson, Taveres and Grabner all with 20 plus already.
One last thing - Horcoff out with bronchitis per the twitter.
Ducey - Detroit is small too. Really small up front actually.
ReplyDeleteThing is they are hard on the puck. Like Omark is, as an example.
I think you can have a ton of small guys but they have to be good.
Well, duh. ;)
I'm sure folks are tired of me saying this but I'll say it again. Get good players. Get as many as you can. Small, big, whatever. Then if you have a surplus in an area move a good player or two for another.
I'm with LT. If Hemsky and Penner will sign at a reasonable rate then keep them. You can trade them later if you want for that Dman or centre. Dumping two guys who are top six wingers and still young (relatively) for picks or prospects sets the team back.
Now in a couple of years if Paajarvi and Omark have developed and it looks like Hamilton and Pitlick and Hartkainen (or two of the three) look to be the real deal then you're in a great spot.
I'm not saying never say never. If someone comes with a beauty deal then nobody is untouchable.
But if not then you hold onto your good players.
fpb,
ReplyDeleteI'd be interested. Where are yóu getting the player ratings from?
Duecy,
Lots of teams use advanced stats. They hold their cards close to the chest and don't discuss it though. I had an interesting article about it saved, will see if I can find it.
BD,
Stop with the "get and keep good players" crap, who do you think you are? Al Arbour?
Ok I'm spitballing here and obviously I'm relying on a few things here.
ReplyDeleteLets say two years from now here's the lineup:
Hall-Couterier-Eberle
Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky
Paajarvi-Lander-Omark
Hamilton-Reasoner-Hartikainen
Whitney-??
Peckham-Gilbert
Marcinin-Petry
Dubnyk
Craig Anderson
Not a bad club I think. Of course I'm relying on a few things. Drafting the young centre and him being able to play that role.
Lander being able.
Peckham being a top four guy.
If Marcinin and Hamilton and the Finn can't play then those spots then you can fill them, bottom of the lineup. And I'm throwing Reasoner out there, your mileage may vary.
And of course can Cogs, Gagner and Smid bring a top four Dman. Maybe not. May need to throw a pick or prospect in there?
Anyhow as I said not a bad club and then at this point you can move a top nine winger to fill a spot if need be.
Interesting quick mention of Kyle Bigos in an article about Stephane Da Costa from Darren Dreger's Twitter.
ReplyDeleteNot too significant, but nice to hear SOMETHING about a seemingly lost prospect.
SumOil said...
ReplyDeleteDavid always acknowledges his mistake and doesnt let bias cloud his judgement.
Well, that last part is just not true.
Well earlier this season he ragged on about gilbert's mistakes and now has come around on him.
ReplyDeleteBut that is my example.
Why do you think David is biased and not open?
My first interview of choice would be MBS. Gare Joyce would be great too. I am looking forward to the show. I think that the quality of the dialogue in the sports media in this town is about to take another step up. Break a leg.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure folks are tired of me saying this but I'll say it again. Get good players. Get as many as you can. Small, big, whatever. Then if you have a surplus in an area move a good player or two for another.
ReplyDeleteDetroit has a load of vetrans, a once in a generation D man and a fabulous coach. They also have 4 forwards who are able to handle anything thrown at them.
They are the exception to the general model. I don't see the Oilers having the horses at this point to be able to duplicate it. If they did, I would agree.
I see Eberle has having the smarts to play both sides of the puck regardless of size.
Samwise should be able to do fine offensively, but he looks miscast at this stage as a C trying to cover big players down low. Does he skate good enough to make up for his size (as D and Z do for Detroit)? Not sure. Its hard to tell at 21.
Omark is tenatious sure, but can he play any defence? Is he going to be able to do his Youtube stuff in the NHL and not be killed? I am not convinced. I have a fear he might be Robert Nilsson. He has heart, but can he impose himself?
"Kevin Lowe was a disaster as a General Manager and the stink still hasn't gone away"
ReplyDelete-John Short on LT's show.
Beauty!
Dennis says: I figured I would listen to LT instead of listening to Weekes and Lee and the first thing I hear is Short saying he couldn't believe the the media didn't touch on the #1 problem: Lowe as a GM was a disaster.
ReplyDeleteJesus Christ, how I have missed Short:)
and now Short is slamming the acquisition of 2 and the signing of 26.
ReplyDeleteFuck, Short is STILL the best.
Looks like Hall just sprained his knee there.
ReplyDeleteLT
ReplyDeleteWow is Short being brutally frank on the Oiler personnel
Oh Gilbert.
ReplyDeleteJust plain ugly defence by Gilbert and Peckman there.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think David is biased and not open?
ReplyDeleteNilsson and Stortini.
Is Kahbby still drunk from last night?
ReplyDeletePoor play from the dmen on both goals here. NK helped this one along too. That guy is an embarrassment.
ReplyDelete14 in a row! best goalie we ever has!
ReplyDeleteDon't be stupid.
ReplyDeleteHe's still drunk from this morning.
Khabby is like a parody of a NHL goalie.
ReplyDeleteTwo more solid years of this yet to be witnessed.
To be fair to Khabby, they are not exactly playing tight D in front of him, but lordy he is bad.
ReplyDeleteReally glad I took the over on this game.
Teddy Peckham has to bury Butler on that first goal.
ReplyDeleteThat second goal there... how the fuck is there a rebound?
Hell, the first one should have been stopped too.
MVP!!!!!!!!!!!!
Looks like the Oilers will be getting the usual fine officiating this game.
ReplyDeletePK now.
ReplyDeleteGonna be 3-1 on a bad goal on a bad call.
It'd be kind of funny if both goalies got pulled and neither got a W, no?
ReplyDeleteHow do you not pull this idiot?
ReplyDeleteAlso, dont know if u could see on tv, but the ref just yelled at Vandy pretty harshly.
Ducey - I think we kind of agree really.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure about Gagner or Omark yet either. My point is that both might be good players. Maybe not. Even better reason to keep 27 and 83 though, right?
When it comes down to it I'd take a good big player over a good small player but I'd take a good small player over nothing. That's all I'm saying.
Ideally here Khabby would get yanked and then the Oilers come back to win it, keeping both goalies' streaks alive.
And fricking Weekes is unbelievable as an apologist for Khabibulin.
Terry Jones just tweeted "Khabibulin gives up two goals on two shots but HNIC exgoalie colourman hasn't mentioned that"
ReplyDeleteLove Terry Jones on Twitter. Awesome. Ended a tweet last night with "Do me."
I'm still amazed that the Oilers committed to 2 and 26 given Lowe's track record with veteran dmen. You can't even point to a strength in mgmt anymore.
ReplyDeleteI suppose you could say McGregor, but I'm not sure he's miles ahead of Prendergast. Stu has had tremendous opportunity afforded him in terms of pick position and quantity. I'm pretty sure he's at least average, but I'm not convinced he's a genius by any stretch.
I've seen 3 Ottawa hooks so far and no calls but we get a ticky-tack call and a flubbed call against.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAm loving the show LT!
ReplyDeleteAnyone else notice that towards the end of a shift, Hall goes down pretty easily? I think as he gets older and hopefully develops a bit more core/lower body strength there's actually a lot of improvement possible in the last 15-20 seconds of his shifts. Kind of an obscure comment, but hey.
ReplyDeleteNice piece by Brian Huddle on Ryan Martindale
ReplyDeleteHockeybuzz alert for those that choose not to frequent that site.
they shoulda checked those guys.
ReplyDeleteGod these teams are terrible.
ReplyDeleteShow sounds great LT.
ReplyDeleteNot sure how you could bring it up on the show, but one of the biggest stories this year IMO is: Why in the hell hasn't Dubnyk gotten more starts??
Almost every other team in the league recognizes when a backup has outplayed their starter and at a minimum the backup then gets half the starts. Why is this team different??
Ignorant Q: What station is LT on right now? I assume CHED is the game and other than that I don't know EDM radio.
ReplyDelete@ BD
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure this Oiler squad could murder the 92-93 Senators.
I think they could, at least.
Showerhead - Team 1260
ReplyDeleteI love that Cherry commercial. Here's the kicker - he doesn't know suits, hockey, or mortgages.
ReplyDelete@ showerhead
ReplyDeletehttp://cfrn.player.amri.ca/
Thanks gents. Listening now while making hangover omelets. Other than the fact we're on commercials, life is good.
ReplyDeleteLT:
ReplyDeleteWondering if you could get Luedeke's take on Northeastern's mammoth D-man Jamie Oleksiak. Is he being ranked in the first round strictly on size, or has he been making improvements to his physical game?
Great show BTW! I've got Lee & Weekes on mute and your show cranked.
ReplyDeleteThe more Khabibulin is played, the more likely the Oilers are sledding towards the first overall pick.
ReplyDeleteHemsky still doesn't look right.
ReplyDeleteAs someone who has suffered numerous head injuries I have to say I am not surprised. Tomatoes are a necessity for a good salad. And here's a tip. Corn is a big winner. Plus it keeps me regular.
And its finally warming up here, thank God.
Anyhow I don't think Hemsky looks right.
LT: is there a long distance number? I'd love to call in and point out how good John Short is compared to everyone else:)
ReplyDelete'Do me.' from Terry Jones is a mental image that I could have lived without.
ReplyDeleteCeryse - yeah I noticed that too. Weekes has to be the worst commentator in hockey, bar none.
ReplyDeleteMark Crawford and Drew Remenda offer some stiff competition for that honour
ReplyDeletehttp://atdhe.me/tv/watch-ottawa-senators-vs-edmonton-oilers-online-live.html
ReplyDeleteGreat shot by Penner there.
ReplyDeletePlease don't trade Penner.
ReplyDeleteLee and Weekes are by far the worst commentating duo in hockey.
ReplyDeleteGreat shot.
ReplyDeleteWeekes - Khabibulin hasn't played poorly in all of the games.
lol
Just eleven or twelve of them.
A lot of the losing is because the Oilers are terrible but Dubnyk isn't riding an ofer. Khabi is a bit part of it. And two more years!
Holy crap, I'm famous! :D Thanks LT & Kirk!
ReplyDeleteHere's hoping Oleksiak does the opposite to what Luedeke predicts & drops to 31.
Both teams stink.
ReplyDeleteBoth announcers stink.
Kudos LT. Great stuff... It's good to see a good guy get his.
ReplyDeleteAnyone elses cbc HD feed for the game REALLY crappy looking?
Mark Lee just said the HC was in 1993.
ReplyDeleteDanny: I'm certain CBC ran out of proper HD cameras for HDIC. Looks ugly on my feed, too. Although I'm not sure I need to see the Toilet Bowl any clearer than I already am.
ReplyDelete4-6 years, Kevin?
ReplyDeleteLovely.
For those not tuned int to the sound on CBC, the first question Lowe was asked was about the original Heritage Classic.
ReplyDeleteHis answer started with 'I was fortunate enough to win some Cups and....'
Not even the-day-before-yesterday's man.
That's the great thing about Bulin. He's just such a team player.
ReplyDeleteLT:
ReplyDeleteNot saying RNH and Gagner will be as good as these two, but DET seems to be getting by with Datsyuk and Zetterberg down the middle, and they aren't exactly giants.
That was an aggressive penalty by the MVP. Easy kill.
ReplyDeleteThat Lowe interview was all about dodging accountability. "We're not thinking about previous years out of the playoffs."
ReplyDeleteNo fucking kidding.
If we're not in the playoffs for another 4-6 years, let's hope someone in management has been fired.
ReplyDeleteWhat would Traktor come in to bitch about if Horcoff had mishandled two passes in prime scoring chances like Cogliano has today?
ReplyDeleteI wonder if anyone keeps track of some sort of rebound stat?
ReplyDeleteI'd bet we could finally find something that MVP would lead the league in.
Just an amazing amount of rebounds generated off of shots on Bulin.
At least Adriana Lima and The Angels are in HD.
ReplyDeleteSuh-weeet - Jon Willis talking advanced stats with LT on the radio! Well done boys.
ReplyDeleteWell Lowe did say contender, not the playoffs... Still that's up to a 7 year rebuild.
ReplyDeleteWatching here in the Scotland and I have got to say about the 2 Kevins, Weekes and Lowe. I smell shit.......BULLSHIT. Bullshit colour commentary and bullshit comments.
ReplyDeleteOiler_Kiwi
Do they grow kiwis on the Highlands? ;-)
ReplyDeleteYou lot have far too lofty an expectation of your commentators - if they get the general teams right and the direction the play is moving in, then that should be enough! (bookie thingy)
Lowe really is an idiot for saying 4-6 years. The window will be slammed shut before that.
ReplyDeleteLowe is not only stupid, he's also delusional.
ReplyDeleteIt's a good thing he's not in any position of real power.
I can hardly wait to see the prospects and draft picks Lowe gets for Taylor Hall in 6-7 years from now.
ReplyDeleteBorn in New Zealand I've been an Oiler fan since '84 when my late mother brought an Oilers jersey back from a trip to Edmonton. Parents are Scottish and I have lived here since '87. Used to get 6-8 games per month taped for me by Dennis for a few seasons in the early '00's. Have managed one trip to Edmonton back in March 2004 where I saw 5 games at Northlands and 2 at the Saddledome including a BOA. Enjoying watching the Oilers at a reasonable time of night for a change.
ReplyDeleteO_K99
When it comes down to it I'd take a good big player over a good small player but I'd take a good small player over nothing. That's all I'm saying.
ReplyDeleteAgree 100%. Good discussion.
Guys, if you hate Weeks and Lee, send an email to CBC. If they get enough of them, they will can these jokers.
Maybe we can get LT moved off the radio to TV :-)
@Ducey
ReplyDeleteI have been sending them emails about Lee since 2005 with no results.
This officiating is beyond awful.
ReplyDeleteGreat show LT ...loved all the content. Too bad you couldn't get John Short to say what he really thought of KLowe!!
ReplyDeleteHad game muted and listening to LT when I saw Lowe talking turned it on for his "4 to 6 years" comment
We now have an idea as to management's timing of the "Plan" and how long it will take this management group to assemble a 3 or 4 round playoff contending team.
Am sure the boy genius has factored in that Whitney, Penner Gilbert and Hemsky will all be 32-34 years old. Plus Horcoff will be on the last 2 years of his deal at 35 and 36 years old.
We will also be the 2nd year into the 2nd contract of Hall, Eberle and MPS.
I am sure someone in the management group is very very carefully planning the salary cap implications of that as we speak.
Not!!
Mike: I know you just didn't make that comparison;)
ReplyDeleteBetween Laforge being interviewed and Khabibulin's goaltending, why am I still watching this crap?
ReplyDelete4-6 YEARS is the quote of 2017.
ReplyDeleteWould be nice to have the first 5 on 3 goal of the season now...
ReplyDeleteWow, now Laforge. And proud of the cheerleaders? This is the worst Oilers broadcast I've ever seen.
ReplyDeleteHow the fuck does Penner fan twice there?
ReplyDeleteThe other John: don't worry we've got Rick Olczyk crunching the cap numbers as we speak.
ReplyDeleteI'm really confident that the Oilers have a good plan here. I guess The esteemed Mr Staples was right - we shouldn't be so hard on these guys.
Maybe there are times where you shouldn't wander so much, Petry.
ReplyDeleteAnd Smid waits far too long to go down.
ReplyDeleteWhen Laforge got intro'ed, I turned to my bud, a BC lad and said "this won't end quickly." By the end he's goin', "Oh my god does this man not shut up?"
ReplyDeleteDennis says: what about when Laforge called hits "blogs"??? as in how many extra "blogs" they got to their website after the introduction of Octane?
ReplyDeletewhat a dummy.
having to listen to Lowe and Laforge today hammered just how hateful the brass are.
and I guess considering today's performance Lowe picked a good time to add another half-decade onto the rebuild but that just makes my heart sink. it's like I said the other day, though: rebuilds are friends to GMs and Lowe's still in charge and when you keep putting off the target date you keep putting off when people will judge you.
or at least that's how it seems to work in your fair city:)
Five min left but it looks the Oilers have secured the 2011 Toilet Bowl.
ReplyDeleteThis game reminds me a little of that South Park episode about Little League. Hopefully Lowe goes all Randy Marsh on someone in the stands.
Is somebody dumb enough to give us anything for Smid?
ReplyDeletethe Oilers outdid themselves on that 5 on 3.
ReplyDeleteNot only did they have a two man adv but the down-low D was also without a stick.
and yet they had one chance.
Where's Darryl Sutter GMing?
ReplyDeleteCam: that episode was so good that I would appreciate if it you didn't compare it to anything Oilers-related:)
ReplyDeleteDidn't fan there.
ReplyDeleteThere's no hope until this mgmt is out the door. It would be really sad if they wait 4-6 years, because that really means over a decade.
ReplyDeleteHemsky to Penner in the low slot for the third or fourth time and he gets good wood on it this time.
Oilers have a 6 on 5, and Eberle gets out manned for the puck 3 on 1?
ReplyDeleteWow.
One of the problems trading a Hemsky or Penner or another asset, is if you get youth in return, and the players you pick up end up to be good with all the other young players. Edmonton will not be able to keep these players with the cap. Yes not a bad problem to have
ReplyDeleteHonestly, that was one of the nicest EN goals you'll ever see. Quite the lob from Kovalev.
ReplyDeleteThat was a really nice empty net goal by Kovalev.
ReplyDeleteSo when's the podcast going to be available? Sounds like it was worth listening to.
ReplyDeleteBehind his own blue line, 20 feet in the air and didn't hit the ice till it was in the net. I agree, great empty netter.
ReplyDeleteLowe really is an idiot for saying 4-6 years. The window will be slammed shut before that.
ReplyDeleteI don't see how it would be possible for the Oilers to be competing for a cup in 2-3 years.
Definitely not probable, unless they somehow add a couple of star players per season for the next couple of seasons.
Can we wait the 4 to 6 years before this team is good to fork over the necessary $300 million from City to build the Oilers a new arena?
ReplyDeleteHey Kevin go ask the boss what he thinks about that idea?
And Weekes quick to jump in and commend the Oilers on the cheerleaders.
ReplyDeleteBuddy has to be looking for a management job, he's just on his knees the whole telecast
Once the Sens sell off I think the Oilers catch them. It would be interesting to see who Ottawa would pick. With Spezza there already and Karlsson I wonder if they might go for Landeskog to replace Alfredsson.
Bank Shot
ReplyDeleteIt took Crosby 3 years to get to the finals and 4 to win it. It took Toews 2 years to get to the conference finals and 3 to win the Cup.
Its going to take KLowe 5 years to get Taylor Hall to compete for the cup.
Guess we are not following Pittsburgh or Chicago model though.
But, as Laforge pointed out,we do have cheerleaders and EVERYBODY loves them
I think they have to seriously look at making a run before the end of 4, 14, and 91's ELC. If they can't do that, then they're really tempting fate. You can't wait too long with this CBA.
ReplyDeleteWith Spezza there already and Karlsson I wonder if they might go for Landeskog to replace Alfredsson.
ReplyDeleteLandeskog may drop as he has been hurt for so long. I expect they will try and get rid of Spezza. You can bet Tambo and Murray have had a few discussions involving Spezza and Penner.
I wonder if the Oilers might be able to sell high on Martindale. He is being pumped (to some degree) by his linemates and would be a fan favourite as he plays for the 67's.
He might be worth a second rounder now?? From OTT that would be 31 or 32 overall.
LT:
ReplyDeleteHeard your response to my Datsyuk/Zetterberg comment, and I get what you're saying but think we're talking about two kind different things.
I brought up Datsyuk/Zetterberg to illustrate that you can be just fine with 2 C's that size, not to say that RNH and Gagner will be as good as those two. And it would be pretty optimistic to expect them to be that good, but if you can't expect a guy like RNH to be that good, who can you?*
If you want to argue that RNH and Gagner aren't likely to be good enough, at their size, to be the top 2 C on a Cup caliber team, fair enough, but I think that argument centers more around their quality than it does their size - although I think it kind of incorporates both, in that it's hard separate size out from quality if size is a part of quality.
* That was kind of rhetorical, I know it would be fair, in some way, to say that you can't expect anyone, even a #1 OV pick to be that good. Except maybe if they are coming in as a Crosby type.
Okay hands up: Who wants Donald Trump running for President?
ReplyDeleteWoodguy: Fhockey.com and the I tweak it a bit, so guys who stepped up a notch after the last update don't roam in the shadows.
ReplyDeleteEx: I upped Eberle and Skinner a lot but downed a guy like Brule.
I usually leave a small period before the season where I let people argue theyr case for theyr players to be upgraded.
For those who are worried the game is nothing like NHL 11. (Well the simulation part). Rookies are way lesser and need to be sheltered exeption made of 1st Overall picks and such. You need veterans or defensive players, else you get muredered.
It's all about confidence. And the oilers need some. These guys can do it! They don't believe!
ReplyDeleteThey also need some new defense, because they're the weakest link.
speeds: Yeah, I didn't really give the comment the time it deserved, the clock got away from me.
ReplyDeleteIt's tough to know, because both of the Red Wings kids developed so differently than a guy like Gagner.
I do believe that a team like Edmonton has to look at the way the Red Wings do it. It isn't like Z and Datsyuk were lottery kids.
It's all about confidence.
ReplyDeleteNo it isn't.
These guys can do it!
No they can't.
LT: Let them in theyr country until they're 21-23?
ReplyDeleteSeems like the plan for Lander and Omark.
I think that people are making way too much out of the 4-6 years comment. Immediately before that Lowe was talking about how great some of the prospects we have are, especially some of the guys that we have in the WHL. I understood the 4-6 years comment to be referring to when those prospects would be starring in the NHL, which is entirely reasonable assessment of when Marincin, Hamilton and Pitlick might be good NHL players.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of when the Oilers might be a Cup contender, since the league went to 30 teams only 4 teams (out of 27) who finished in the bottom 3 in the league made the playoffs the following season, so it is highly likely that the Oilers aren't making the playoffs next year regardless of what they do in the off season. That's one year.
Assuming they make the playoffs the year after next, it isn't unreasonable to think that they might have a couple of unsuccessful playoff runs before making it to, or indeed winning, the Cup final. That would nbe another two years.
So a entirely reasonable assessment of when this team might be a Cup contender is at least three years from now ie. 4-6 years away.
Yeah, the D was awful today. 49 can still be quite bad and when we pick up a D he'd better be good.
ReplyDeletewhich brings me to my next point.
if Lowe and Co really believes this team's another 4-to-5 years away then this summer they won't talk to guys like Erhoff or Bieksa and those are the guys this needs needs: not junk like 2 or 26.
but we know Lowe still runs the show so I can imagine his opinion today is the club's MO.
so, at least IMO, that gives more heft to these last 20 odd games by the club because only a decent run will spur them to any real action.
Power play is now 3 for 81. Has there ever been a worse % in the history of the NHL? In the history of hockey?
ReplyDeleteLT: absolutely Capital move having Short be part of your show. Either he has the only medicine to remove the scales that covers everyone else's eyes re: Lowe or maybe he just has the biggest nuts but he was great today carving up Lowe for the past and then Lowe and/or Tambo for the 2 and 26 moves.
ReplyDeleteI hope that you'll take calls during one of his future segments because I would love to call in and tell him how much I like his work:) and also thank him for letting me rant on his show many years ago when no other station in Edm would let a guy call the truth on Tommy Salo and Kevin Lowe:)
I listened to your show today while I was watched the first two periods of the game and hearing Short was like a piece of home:)
I emailed CBC to register my complaint - please, more of you take the time to complain about the CBC broadcast crew for Oiler Games - especially Kevin Weekes, maybe we can get rid of them/him. Just Brutal on National TV especially with it being Hockey Day in Canada, when all eyes are on us - embarrassing!
ReplyDeleteSign me Disgusted...to CHED I go...
RiversQ, Black Dog:
ReplyDeleteYou guys are really starting to burn my ass with your negativity. Staples showed recently (using his brilliantly innovative 'GM errors' stat) that Tambellini and Lowe are an elite management tandem.
The only thing holding them back is a world class arena. Is that their fault? Give your heads a shake, boys.
Now take your half-empty glasses and get the hell out of my sight!
Marc - While we are charting exceptional results, how many teams finished dead last one year and then finished in the bottom 3 again the next year? What happens to those teams going forward?
ReplyDeleteMarc, there's little doubt in mind that Lowe was, at least partly, managing expectations.
ReplyDeleteLol @ Ron Maclean and that jacket.
ReplyDeleteDeano
ReplyDeleteAtlanta - 24th in 02/03, 21st in 03/04, 19th in 05/06, playoffs in 06/07
Columbus - 27th in 03/04, 25th in 05/06, 24th in in 06/07, 25th in 07/08, playoffs in 08/09
Pittsburgh - 29th in 05/06, playoffs in 06/07
Chicago - 26th in 06/07, 20th in 07/08, playoffs in 08/09
Los Angeles - 26th in 08/09, playoffs in 09/10
Tampa Bay - 25th in 09/10, playoffs in 10/11
Edmonton - ???
It's happened 7 times since the league went to 30 teams, including Edmonton's probable bottom 3 finish this year.
None of the other 6 teams made the playoffs the season after their second straight bottom 3 finish. Half of them went on to make the playoffs after one further season of missing the playoffs and two thirds within two seasons. Two of the six subsequently won the Stanley Cup.
To clarify, this is a list of teams that had two straight bottom three finishes and what happened in the seasons that followed the second bottom three finish.
ReplyDeleteLowe = Mubarak
ReplyDeleteMy, My, My
ReplyDeleteWhat a cranky bunch.
Did the Oilers lose again?
Perhaps we should stick to Quebec Auto Insurance on Game Days.
{You settle with your own insurer on all physical damage claims - with a deductible if its your fault, without if its the other guy's fault.]
I think Staples takes some un-needed flak hereabouts. He's improved his error system so that it applies to scoring chances not goals.
At least Staples isn't calling out our best uninjured defenseman for his alleged poor leadership qualities.
As for Lowe's 4 by 6 window, I'm assuming that he means the Oilers will be regularly winning play-off rounds once Hall is 22. That's what I heard, your mileage will vary.
Hello Al? Al? First time caller.
I agree with you totally.
Smac should get more playin' time.
Say Al, Whatever happened to Earl Edwards?
Needle=Unwarranted (and unnecessary) Hyperbole
ReplyDeleteLowe = Mubarak
ReplyDeleteOnce he's out, the Oilers' alliance with Israel will be history.
2010: ST & NK(MVP) = 30th
ReplyDelete2011: ST & NK(MVP) = 30th
2012:
2013:
Marc - So, 2 positive stories, 2 mediocre stories and 2 unfinished stories.
ReplyDeleteOne of the positives, Pittsburgh was an anomaly - they received 4 years of low draft picks for 3 years of poor finishes because of the lockout.
Chicago was too as the penny-pinching owner died in 2007, but our poor finishes were due to incompetence (which still remains) not restricted spending.
Based on your list, we should expect the Oilers should finish around 25th next season.
The divergence to the positive shows up when the team rises to at least 20th two years after the last bottom 3 finish. If the Oilers remain in the bottom half dozen teams the season after next, they are on the Atlanta/Columbus path.
I don't think its anywhere near as clear as the Oilers want everyone to believe. This team feels destined for mediocrity (Columbus/Atlanta) to me.
The good news is there were lots of GM's replaced in the listed teams during these periods. Its a results-based business and the Oilers results deserve to get people fired.
As an aside, its interesting that the Islanders are not in the list after finishing 26th, 30th and 26th consecutively. Apparently a single elite prospect (Tavares) is not enough to make a difference. (Plus having DiPietro and Yashin on the books).
The only explanation for signing Crappybulin in the first place is that the Oilers intended to get a lottery pick four years running.
ReplyDeleteLooked at that way, props to Oilers management for accomplishing their goals.
I have to admit I'm looking at contending within HOPE's entry level contracts through a glass that's half empty. With a hat tip to Woodguy and RiversQ for a few comment exchanges, I just don't see Edmonton's MGMT* as capable of adding enough of the right pieces fast enough.
ReplyDeleteThe one thing in Edmonton's favour is that all of Hall, Eberle, and Paajarvi look like the real deal. I'm not sold on Omark (though he's entertaining as hell to watch) and I'm not convinced of Hemsky or Horcoff's long term health but the point is we're not remotely near a point where we can say Edmonton's lottery picks have washed out.
This leads me to a new question: are there successful teams whose stars were in their 2nd contract during post season success? Without having looked yet I'm thinking Anaheim may count and maybe Philadelphia will this year? Vancouver's in an interesting position too with some of their best depth players being in that situation (Kesler?)
As I said, I haven't actually checked the contract status of the players I'm thinking of but my first guess is there is a lot of luck or hometown discounts involved. Pronger was gifted to the Ducks, the Sedins are cheaper than they're worth, etc.
Thoughts? I'm not yet saying it's acceptable but if we're looking past HallBerJarvi's ELCs, these are the questions on my mind.
I don't think its anywhere near as clear as the Oilers want everyone to believe. This team feels destined for mediocrity (Columbus/Atlanta) to me.
ReplyDeleteIt will come down to drafting. Columbus has done a poor job. ATL has been all over the map too.
If the Oilers can have another good draft (or two), you have to like their chances.
If they get off track and start grabbing Cam Abney's or Angelo Espisito's early on, it will take a while.
As Woodguy is fond of pointing out, they are not that far away. A top Dman and a shutdown third line C and they could be alright. I just don't think they need to get excited about adding those guys until 2012 as the kids need to grow anyway.
I have to admit I'm looking at contending within HOPE's entry level contracts through a glass that's half empty. With a hat tip to Woodguy and RiversQ for a few comment exchanges, I just don't see Edmonton's MGMT* as capable of adding enough of the right pieces fast enough.
ReplyDeleteShowerhead, I think your example of Vancouver is excellent. I have never understood the proponents of the ELC or die strategy. How do Boston, Philly, Vancouver, Montreal etc all manage to do it?
They are all relying on guys well past their ELC but somehow manage to put together a good team under the cap.
I don't think anyone could put a team together fast enough to maximize Hall's ELC. There are simply too many holes on this team and it is handcuffed by its inability to attract FA or keep guys they trade for. This is the reality that is ignored.
The only way this team is going to work is to grow it thru the draft to the point where FA might consider EDM to win a Cup. That is going to take a while.
How do Boston, Philly, Vancouver, Montreal etc all manage to do it?
ReplyDeleteThree of the four you mentioned are in the EC, so that helps.
It's about value contracts. Those teams have other value contracts that allow them to be competitive. And they play in the EC.
If you have 2-3 elite players on their ELC (and the Oilers might as of next year) then it's likely you'll get great bang for the buck out of your lineup. After that, it gets more difficult. Like the Hawks as a great example.
Missed the game but they won a 4 point game! Way to swing in the standings. I'm still holding out hope for Larsson. Ideally the Oilers get 1st overall, trade down to 2nd or something with a team that desperately wants Couturier, and still nab Larsson =).
ReplyDeleteDucey - except for the guy picked with our first pick this coming June, the guys that will start to help in 2 years are already in the system. The relevant drafting has already happened.
ReplyDeleteI don't like our chances because our guys went nuts signing Khabby when they did decide to fill a hole. They also have not been able to pick up the missing #3C in four years, even though its staring them in the face.
The most difficult thing to control in business is timing. The schedule for players acquired outside the draft is really out of their control. I think you have to pick up the other pieces when they are available or you end up 'whale-hunting' the only guy that can help in the one off-season that you have.
The things that you take for granted are exactly what our guys have demonstrated absolutely no acumen for. Business skills.
As opposed to 'lik[ing] their chances', because the Oilers front office has not demonstrated any ability to pick up veterans with defined skills, I think you have to be concerned.
To me the success of the kids is an opportunity. Now its a pretty small sample size and we have little clue how well they'll play next year. But next year, if you're management and the kids are still the goods, dont you have to be all over that like a pitbull on a meat truck?
ReplyDeleteWe can talk about the kids all we want but I can't believe that Lowe is so unconscious to the Hemsky, Penner end of things that they wouldn't take a shot sooner rather than later.
If not, and we're really talking 5 more years you might as well trade their asses. Their actions will speak louder than words.
Management's actions, that is, w.r.t. their rhetoric. If it really is a 6 yr plan (that's including this year), Penner and Hemsky have to be gone.
ReplyDeleteYou believe Edmonton has a chance to win Lord Stanley's Cup if:
ReplyDeletea) You have faith in current management to add all of the right pieces in between this moment and the end of Hall, Paajarvi, and Eberle's ELC's
or:
b) You have faith in current or future management to sign the above players or future talent to value contracts.
I've decided it's as simple as this. How else will enough Oilers outperform their cap hits?
If you have 2-3 elite players on their ELC (and the Oilers might as of next year) then it's likely you'll get great bang for the buck out of your lineup. After that, it gets more difficult. Like the Hawks as a great example.
ReplyDeleteRiversQ, it gets more difficult perhaps, but people make it sound like the end of the world.
To maximize the value contracts to be a contender is going to require EDM to mortgage its future thru trades, as again FA are not an option. So they trade for Pronger, Toews, Stoll and a few checkers (names are examples). They are going to have to give up their draft for three years and some prospects.
They will have a year or two until the guys they traded for want to leave and the ELC's are over.
It seems that they need to tear the thing apart again as they have little in the way of prospects left.
Its quite a boom bust cycle. Isn't it?
Since the lockout, the Stanley Cup Champs have had the following amounts of cap space left:
ReplyDelete2005-06 Carolina $3.7MM
2006-07 Anaheim $3.5MM
2007-08 Detroit $5.7MM
2008-09 Pittsburgh $0.1MM
2009-10 Chicago -$4.2MM
When you have teams winning with around 10% room in the first 3 seasons, I am not so sure getting guys to outplay their deals is the crucial factor in winning it all.
Maybe the last 2 seasons are a trend and the new norm, but it sure was not necessary in the first 3 seasons with the cap.
Deano -
ReplyDeleteYour Detroit numbers are wrong. The cap was $50.3MM and NHLnumbers has them at $48.3MM. Zetterberg's cap hit went up $4MM or so the following year.
ReplyDeleteIf you have 2-3 elite players on their ELC (and the Oilers might as of next year) then it's likely you'll get great bang for the buck out of your lineup. After that, it gets more difficult. Like the Hawks as a great example.
No. The Hawks are a great example of the importance of cap management. They signed two high priced UFAs with no consideration to their cap. It also didn't help that they forgot to qualify a bunch of their players last year.
The Oilers can be perfectly fine heading into Hall and Eberle's contracts if they can avoid a Campbell like contract and another Khabby like contract.
Lowetide,
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed your first show and I look forward to listening weekly. It's nice to have a reporter/commentator on the local scene who carries on an intelligent conversation that is informative. Unfortunately there are a couple of local types who seem to feel arrogant is the way to go and talking down to callers is appropriate. So I guess that means I won't be listening to anyone named Hall or Tencer.
The thing about Chicago is that Kane and Toews were obviously better then Hall and Eberle, and they were only part of the equation. The biggest factor Chicago had working in their favour was having Norris Keith playing for $1.5 million a year. ELC's are nice to have, but they aren't the only way to save on the cap.
ReplyDeleteBesides, when the Oilers miss the playoffs for the next two seasons we can still talk about Hopkins/Couturier and whoever they draft in 2012 and their ELC's.
mc - i used USAToday's total payroll numbers. Not sure how they are computed, nut NHL numbers is probably more accurate.
ReplyDeleteI think this makes the Carolina and Anaheim numbers suspect also.
So I can't seem to find an archive for LTs foray with Nation Radio? Can anybody set me on a course for enlightenment? Please and thanks.
ReplyDeleteRob in the 403
Wow. Dan Barnes calls for Khabibulin to sit the fuck down, and takes a shot at the Rexall ice while he's at it. I guess that's why he's the highest regarded of the local accredited hockey writers?
ReplyDeleteBarnes did not use the f-word. I think his piece is a totally reasonable point of view and quite fair.
ReplyDelete- Dude Lebowski
I think his piece is a totally reasonable point of view and quite fair.
ReplyDeleteThat was kind of my point.
I think his piece is a totally reasonable point of view and quite fair.
ReplyDeleteBarnes is out to lunch. Bulin has been hung out to dry all season. Bulin was not the problem Saturday or for most of the season. If DD had played 40 so far he'd be under a bridge trying to find his self confidence.
It is the defence. Peckham was soft. Petry with a brutal give away and one off his arm.
Frankly, its a pretty low standard to be a sports writer/ commentator and it shows - often.
Funny that DD's record is so much better in front of the same soggy cheese defense.
ReplyDeleteNot defending the Oiler's play yesterday, but to suggest that DD's winning record has less validity than Khabby's dismal record is a little absurd.
Oilers standards are bush league.
ReplyDeletePathetic music played at the arena, feeble announcers, fawning commentators only - in short, the hicktown vibe is so strong that no wonder no one wants to come here.
It's like going into a special needs class.
I won't even start going into the perpetual veiled threat to move the franchise. Actually I think I will say it's not an awful lot different than Pocklington, sans the winning team.