No wonder Gump Worsley hated the Rangers. That's his coach (the famous "Muzz" Patrick) showing a few Rangers (Allan Stanley is the captain to the left, Camille Henry is to the right of the other captain. I believe the other captain to be Bones Raleigh, a legendary name in Manitoba sports) how to piss off the goaltender.
Good grief.
--
Camille Henry was called the "eel" because hockey nicknames suck. Henry was the first and only rookie to score a hat trick of PP goals in an NHL game until Taylor Hall turned the hat trick on the weekend. Credit to Dan Tencer for uncovering that gem.
--
I think this is going to be an astonishing week for Oiler fans. Not in a "we've gathered building blocks for a winner way" but in an "Ain't that Peculiar?" kind of way.
Some of the language in the reports we're seeing on the Al Gore are familiar. Assets. Here's something from the Fourth Period that moved last night about a possible Hemsky deal:
- TFP: A league executive told TFP the Oilers are asking for a package that includes a young, NHL-quality player, and at least one top prospect and/or a first-round draft pick in exchange for Hemsky.
- Young, NHL quality player: Likely RW Wayne Simmonds. Big winger with two-way ability, he's a physical player with a non-stop motor. According to behind the net, Simmonds plays the toughest competition (his relCorsi is 2nd behind Ponikarvosky), his 5x5 points per 60 (1.75) ranks 5th (ahead of Smyth but just behind Stoll) and his zone starts (48.6%) are the second lowest on the Kings (biggest mountain is Handzus which makes sense). His boxcars (57gp, 9-11-20 -3) are more than respectable when we run them through the advanced stats I've listed. Simmonds is not used in a PK role, something he'd probably do with the Oilers.
- One quality prospect: Likely D Colton Teubert. Former Regina Pat teammate of Jordan Eberle, this is a little dissapointing in that the Kings have several AHL defensemen (Voynov, Hickey, Martinez) with a wider range of skills. He's big and he's tough, and I suspect he's on his way to the Oilers organization. I'm not certain where he'd land on the depth chart, but it would be a really good guess to say Teubert will be in OKC if the trade goes down.
- First Round pick: If the season ended today, the pick would be around 14th overall. However, if they're dealing Hemsky to LAK it's likely the pick would be in the 20's. As much as I believe in Stu (Magnificent Bastard) MacGregor, I'd prefer the Oilers attempt acquiring young Andrei Loktionov who has a very wide range of skills.
I think that's probably the deal. Oh sure, the names might change--Washington might be offering a similar package with a more offensive prospect to replace Simmonds--but that might not suit the Oilers. Their shopping list as I understand it? A center who can play, some grit and secondary scoring on the bottom two lines and more defensemen.
I think the Kings win this deal. Is it enough? Hell no. Will it happen? History tells us this deal (or something similar) is quite possible. It is not the Ryan Smyth deal (that was a deadline trade for an expiring contract the organization had decided not to pursue after the season) and Simmonds will certainly be better than Nilsson, O'Marra or Plante.
Is it enough? No. There's no Braydon Schenn and there's no big center, no mobile defender who might become a true stud in a wide area of disciplines and it doesn't address special teams (although I do believe Simmonds could fill that role).
I wonder if there's any chance of trading Hemsky and then re-signing him when he becomes a free agent.
ReplyDeleteBetter to just re-sign him this summer of course.
Just one question... have the Oilers ever gotten full value when trading a star player? I'd rather re-sign Hemmer if that's what we're getting back.
ReplyDeleteHopefully we can still hang our hat on "Tambellini is asking for way too much", and the player names being thrown around are what the Kings would like to give up, and not what v3.0 is willing to accept.
ReplyDeleteWord is that some teams are waiting for Richards to shake loose from Dallas. If we couple that with a high asking price, if something gets done, its probably not for a week.
Seeing as Katz reportedly wined and dined 83 and not 27, I expect 27 to be the one that moves unless there is a Schenn,Voynov 1st deal to be had.
I think its more likely than not that neither Hemsky or Penner move.
ReplyDeleteLT: If the Oilers make that move I will personally fly to Edmonton and tell 3.0 and Klowe off.
ReplyDeleteThat would be an absolutely atrocious move. Hemsky's numbers (when healthy) show that he's a difference maker.
None of those guys are/will be difference makers. This is not the late 90's/early 2000's when we were a poor market team that had to sell off elite players for magic beans.
You either get elite caliber talent back or you tell the GM to get lost.
A deal like that puts 3.0 and Klowe solidly in Mike Milbury territory as some of the worst GM's in the modern era (along w/Don Waddell in Atl).
Nuts I just posted on the old thread in reply to Dennis on this same topic.
ReplyDeleteI don't think they move him. The word is that they are asking too much. We can look at this deal and see that this does not qualify as 'too much' I think.
I think that GMs are calling and asking but that 83 is not being actively shopped. They are calling and saying 'How much for 83?' and Tambo is saying if you want him we need the moon, the sun and the stars.
I'm no fan of Oilers' management but I have to think they see the value of extending 83.
I do think Penner is gone though.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteChrist: When your have Hamhuis (blain) and Bogosian (marincin) bubbling up you do not trade for Van der meer (tuebert).
ReplyDeleteSimmonds?
18yr season 66 games 23g 26A .74ppg -10
Drew Czerwanka
18yr season 55 games 12g 27a .71ppg +12
Jesus!
#14 in a shitty draft gets you
Eller
Shattenkirk
Plante
Gillies
Esposito
They say in this draft there is not much diffference between 10&40
I am not a fan of hemsky's play on the
I am not a fan of hemsky's play on the.....PP when he pulls shit like last game when Omark goes to rotate from the point and hemsky refuses to slide up to the point. See the likes of Eberle, Omark, Gagner slide to the circle to shoot.
ReplyDeleteI forgot what veiwing from upper bowl does for veiw of game play. That shit does not cut it alex.
Hemsky however is one of the best Ev guys in the league period.
Thou it was funny to her Tencer say maybe he is only suited to be 2nd line material. post game. What the....... then some drunk ass phones in calls hemsky a bum. then the hemsky (save the Whale) calls occur.
we don't get real return then to heck with that:
van der meer, Czerwonka, and plante is the ryan smyth deal.
You guys have your heads in the clouds. This is an acceptable package for Hemsky. I don’t think it is, the market does. For example, Nathan Horton. He was traded as a 24 year old lottery pick, with no history of injury having averaged 55 points per season post lockout. 6’2, 230 lbs. They received a 15th overall, a 27 year old 40 point defenseman and a third. Hemsky is 27, 6’0 190 and has averaged 58 points per season post lockout. The biggest problem with the Oilers is the injuries that have plagued them. This is not coincidence. They have injury prone players and Hemsky is one of them. He has averaged the same number of games a season as Gaborik, Havlat and Briere. He has averaged 58 points per year since the lockout! Why would some team give us possible superstars for a player who will only play you 65 games a year on average. Maybe more, maybe less.
ReplyDeleteHis value is at its highest right now. The longer Tambo waits, the less he will get as he just becomes a rental, ala Kaberle. Whatever the market dictates his price is, take it, move on with players that do not get hurt. Hemsky is going to want too much money for his 60 points per season. Brule goes too. We need 82 games as season.
"You guys have your heads in the clouds. This is an acceptable package for Hemsky. I don’t think it is, the market does."
ReplyDeleteI agree wholeheartedly with this! ;)
When the bid and the ask are far apart - there essentially is no market.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous makes a good point.
ReplyDeleteI will now go and sell my house for less than I bought it for, because the market will only pay me so much. Wait, you mean I can keep my house? I don't have to sell it? (end analogy)
Your house is going to become way over priced with out of control taxes. Its sellable value is going down to an end point of $0. Keep your house(maybe, if it doesn't burn down), and pay higher than normal taxes, or get a more affordable one, and buy a vacation home on the side to where you can take regular trips to the playoffs.
ReplyDeleteIn other exciting news the kids won't be bothering us here anymore.
ReplyDeleteI am of the opinion that the Oilers are asking just the right amount(too much. The only thing that makes me nervous is how Dennis keeps chiming in like the voice of doom reminding us that there is probably something going on. Monday night can't come quickly enough.
That's disgusting. After we make that trade maybe we can do another of Jones, Belle, and our second rounder (which will be in the same bracket of talent as their first) for Kopitar. What? It doesn't work both ways?
ReplyDeleteIf that is the way things are going to go down, I would seriously have to find something else to do with the time I spend following this team.
Peter: I am glad you think a return of players we already have on the team or in prospect is fair. deano is correct.
ReplyDeletehemsky for schenn ( a future {4 years from now} .9ppg center) and 1st is fair.
You are paying to get the point production 4 years ahead of time.
Get rid of the top six wingers! We have too many top six wingers!
ReplyDeleteSomeone made the very salient point the other day (and this has been made a million times but it seems that people don't get it) that havibg a lot of good forwards might be a good thing. You know like Philly, Detroit, Chicago last year. Boston fell apart last spring because they did not have the depth up front so this year they are addressing that.
Again, if 27 and 83 don't want to be here then you need to get value but this idea that we should move them for futures because we are stacked up front is beyond stupid just as the idea that somehow they are part of the problem here.
Folks like their shiny objects though, at least until the shine wears off. Takes three years if Sam Gagner is any indication.
Just say no to Tuebert.
ReplyDeleteSlow, stupid penalty taking D-man.
A Vendermeer plus the stupid penalties seems like an accurate description.
"You guys have your heads in the clouds. This is an acceptable package for Ryan Smyth and Chris Pronger. I don’t think it is, the market does."
ReplyDelete"You guys have your heads in the clouds. This is an acceptable deal for Nikolai Khabibulin. I don’t think it is, the market does."
"You guys have your heads in the clouds. These are acceptable offers for Vanek and Nylander. I don’t think it is, the market does."
I fixed that for you.
The point isn't even whether you can get more. The point is whether you should sell at all, or at least wait until the price is better.
The one thing Lowe taught us is that sometimes you should wait and hold on to a player. (Or try to sign them.) And the one thing Tambellini taught us is you shouldn't always wait forever.
There's an intelligent middle ground in there somewhere occupied by good GM's, and not trading Hemsky for Simmonds plus is part of that ground.
It really does seem madness to be contemplating a Hemsky trade when you could get most of what is being offered for him by giving up Smid, Jones, JVM and even Foster. Getting a Simmonds would be tough, but then again, it is not like he is a desperately needed piece (and Jones might well do it anyway). If I were Toonces (shudder) then I would be looking at the little deals that seem to have been reaping good returns this year. And staying away from the nonsense that is trading Hemmer.
ReplyDeleteA salient question. If you're taking picks and prospects at the deadline this year for Hemsky, how much less would you get if you waited to move him at the next deadline? (Assuming he can't be signed.)
ReplyDeleteGiven the return for Smyth and other excellent players, I think you'd still get picks and/or middling prospects. You might not get Simmonds and picks.
So, we're really trading a year of Hemsky at value -in a year where we'll have 20MM in cap space and loads of young guys on value contracts- and the chance at resigning Hemsky, for... Wayne Simmonds. Simmonds is okay, but...
Not.
Worth.
It.
The bastard.
ReplyDeleteI really respect your thought.
But look at the two goals.
Ask yourself if bantam players could have got those assists. did hemsky make a diffrence. what youre saying is yes.
Really? really! reeeeeeeally...........
Hall all the way in creating the space.
See Omark, Eberle, and Gagner.
Currently all better sideboard options.
Just saying you take the best options.
hemsky for schenn ( a future {4 years from now} .9ppg center) and 1st is fair.
ReplyDeletePersonally speaking, if I had a time machine I would have used it to go forward and learn next week's lottery numbers. But I admire your commitment to hockey, and thank you for the update.
BDHS: That was speeds, and it's an excellent point.
ReplyDeleteI do think the Oilers could use Simmonds (obviously not at that price).
rickibear; Really? I think maybe you have a Hemsky bias. Just saying. Making plays in the NHL is really hard.
Ask JF Jacques.
I heard Washington was shopping around Eric Fehr.
ReplyDeleteI'd love that deal.
Fehr + Kuznetzov + 1st would be the ideal deal, but we could let go of the first.
Kuz is putting insane numbers in the KHL (Superior to Malkin, Ovechkin, Bure, Fedorov and the list goes on, at age 18).
I think he's a way better prospect than Schenn, or anything LA has.
Fehr on the other side is a strong (In the brute force sense) top 6 winger who can win battles.
That for me is the kind of deal we should be looking for.
Not looking up for LA's busts.
Simmonds???? he offers grit and a touch of skill but so does Ryan Jones! make Jones happy for 2yrs and offer hima 2yr 2million doller contract! he brings it everynight and paying him a million to do so is worth it!
ReplyDeleteOk Ok Ok we know L.A. wants Hemsky! WE know they want to make the playoffs too!! right now there not in them! If Oilers Management hasnt been scouting the Kings organization for the past few weeks then shame on them!!!! If you know anything about Hockey, THEN YER DROOLING OVER THE PROSPECTS IN THERE SYSTEM!
you tell Lombardi that Hemsky pretty much solidfies you a playoff berth! U want that DEAN?
we've been looking at some of the prospects in your organization and feel that we are very interested in:
Hemsky for Voynov
Linden Vey
Foster Tyler Toffoli
Derrick Forbort
Voynov could replace Foster right now on our ROSTER!
we are not stripping the kings of there prospects, they still will have Schenn, Hickey , Teubert.
Why are you guys so hung up on Teubert anyway! we have him, his name is SMID!
in this deal we get leading point scorer in WHL, leading goal scorer in OHL, leading Dman scorer in AHL, and one BIG hulking prosepct in FORBORT!
This trade is followed by signing Ryan Jones! why trade for Simmonds? Jones is REAL! he really is this good!
in June this trade allows us to draft Hopkins! and basically tell the rest of the NHL to look out in 3-4 YEARS!!!!
you can dream or overpay all you want about Schenn but WHY, Hopkins at his age is better then him and he will fall in our lap in JUNE!
supposed to read
ReplyDeleteHemsky and Foster
for
Voynov, Vey, Toffoli, Forbort
The package LT proposed seems to me like an adequate one...
ReplyDeleteIf Hemsky were on an expiring contract.
He is not, so the stakes must be upped. For a player like Hemsky LA would have to give up one of two players for the Oilers to even have a shot at fair market value. I don't care if picks or middling prospects are thrown in on either side (do we really need them?), if the Kings aren't prepared to offer up either Schenn or Bernier you tell the nice man in his bermuda shorts to have a nice day.
My biggest problem with that kind of return, is what the Oiler lineup looks like after you make it (even in 5 years when you know what the pick has become).
ReplyDeleteSimmonds will likely never play above the 3rd line. The 1st round pick has a better chance of being Jamie Lundmark than Martin Havlat, and Tuebert has 3rd pairing written all over him.
Is anyone satisfied with what we got for Doug Weight? How about Ryan Smyth?
On the bright side, by all accounts, it sounds like Tambellini is looking for a lot more than that. Let's just hope he sticks to his guns and keeps him if there isn't a deal that is impossible to refuse.
Everybody is be-dazzled by how good Hemsky looks putting up his 60 ponts per year. But 60 points is 60 points.
ReplyDeleteIf we CAN resign Hemsky it should be at the price for a 60 point, 1 dimensional, offensive winger. And that deal should be signed....NOW. In other words, re-up for the same price now or this off-season. To overpay in a cap world is a cardinal sin(hello Leafs).
That is if you want a player who is the first one off the ice every day, and to this day has NEVER worked on his shot.
Great leader.
Easy there Anonymouse, remember to breathe every once in a while.
ReplyDeleteI've always seen Teubert as a clone of Wreck'um, to be honest. And we've already got him, so there's no reason to duplicate that skillset.
Why is it so loud in here!!!
ReplyDeletePile on Rickibear y'all
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure its all that radical to point out the key man on the worst PP may be better at other things.
Or, comparing Hemsky's value now to another player's value in the future seems a fair thing to do. Isn't that what we're all doing?
On the other hand, the punctuation? Yikes.
If Hemsky goes for that 'package' the Oilers will have the following guys up front for next year that are over 25:
ReplyDeleteHorcoff (32)
Penner (28)
Jones (UFA, 26)
It will effect Lowe's marvelous Playoffs In 4-6 Years Plan (TM).
Kiprian, you're doing it again.
ReplyDeleteIf we CAN resign Hemsky it should be at the price for a 60 point, 1 dimensional, offensive winger. And that deal should be signed....NOW. In other words, re-up for the same price now or this off-season. To overpay in a cap world is a cardinal sin
ReplyDeleteActually it is a cardinal sin to re-up a player before the last year of his contract, but I might've heard you wrong. My ears are ringing right now.
I am not the eel
ReplyDeleteAnyone else getting nervous about the Souray countdown? Snarky, glass-half-empty Lowetide puts me even more on edge. I like to go into these "big" Oilers moments hoping for the best, but there's a very real possibility that we'll all be standing around asking "What now?" when Souray clears. Same goes for the deadline.
ReplyDeleteIn other news, did lunch at Cactus Club WEM yesterday. Found myself sitting about 12 feet from Hall, Eberle, and Vandermeer. Whitney showed up later & had to sit at the bar (no room in the booth). Felt bad for Whitney's buddy (non-Oiler in a Sawx hat) that he must have conned into coming to -30 degree Edmonchuk on President's Day weekend. Didn't chat 'em up or anything (it was their marathon signing day at The Mall), but man that Hall kid's a lot bigger than I thought.
Guy should give hockey a try. Might be a player there.
What exactly is the gain from judging a trade before it happens? I'm also not sure where you're getting your specific names, either.
ReplyDeleteI really don't think we have to worry about Tambo getting less than 100 cents on the dollar. As we discussed a while back, he's more likely to turn down good deals than accept bad ones, and I think that's probably the right side to err on.
Nobody is getting Kuznetsov out of Washington. Did you see that guy? He's the next Ovechkin.
ReplyDeleteMr. DeBakey,
ReplyDeleteOnly went after rickibear because he was pointing out last game, which was one of the few that the PP actually worked.
rickibear, Gretzky got a lot of points giving the puck to the sublime Mr. Kurri in a shooting position.
BD, LT,
I've been banging the drum for a group of top 12 forwards that contain no "energy guys" who bring nothing else. VAN,WAS,PHI,DET all have decent hockey players at most position, that's the model to follow.
When your 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th lings are all better than the opposition's corresponding lines, you will probably win more than you lose.
Many very smart hall of fame coaches in all sports agree that the best way to win a game is to get off the bus with the best team.
On another note...is there anyway we can get in on this James Neal deal that Dreger and Bobby Mac are talking about.
ReplyDeleteThat's what we need.
If that's the Kings package then best of luck Dean.
ReplyDeleteMcKenzie had this on his twitter: As @DarrenDreger had in his daily report, lots of chatter about potential PIT-DAL deal that would involve Alex Goligoski and James Neal.
ReplyDeleteIf Neal is going to go for as little as Goligoski, v3.0 has to put his hat in that ring.
The Oilers don't have a Goligoski type, but damn Neal is very, very good complete player.
Unless there are personal issues we don't know about, dealing Neal is terrible unless a lot is coming back, and Goligoski isn't a lot.
I can't believe they'd deal Neal, especially if DAL can't keep Richards.
Tambo has let it be known what it will take to get Hemsky. He's doing the same thing I tell my kids. If you don't ask, you don't get.
ReplyDeleteIf LA truly wants Hemsky and they get desperate enough to make the playoffs they will start to up the ante, especially if another team is becoming concerned about how deep they will go into the playoffs and starts to sniff around.
Tambo is in no rush and as long as he can keep the pressure on other GM's (instead of the other way around, for a change) then the best deal will be found. There is still a week to go and the Oilers are still at least a year away from needing anything close to a quick fix. Now to see if Oiler management has the patience to wait for the best offer.
The scary thing is Kevin Lowe is lurking around in the weeds ready to leap out and get mud and water all over everything.
ReplyDelete@ WG
ReplyDeleteI agree
If Neal is on the market, Oilers need to get on this thing
Souray clears re-entry waivers.
ReplyDeleteThat's gotta be tough on the ego.
No one wants you for free and at 1/2 price.
Well done everyone!
According to Rishaug (twitter) the Oilers can keep Souray in Hershey if he clears waivers.
ReplyDeleteBecause he was put on waivers on the weekend the rest of the league has 48 hours to put in a claim.
Which is all fine and dandy, but I am left with two questions if Souray is not claimed...
Does his salary count against the cap if he stays in Hershey?
Can the Oilers trade him without having to again clear waivers?
Souray clears waivers
ReplyDeleteso then you agree then WHY Simmonds? Teubert?
ReplyDeleteyes we dont need Tuebert! your right misfit, I wasnt impressed with the returns on Smyth, Weight or Pronger.
We can all assume that Tambo, will take the best return for him. but thats an assumption. I thought that with LOWE too! when they had the Islanders up against the wall in the Smyth deal, all they had to say was can that 1st round pick be next year or the following instead of this year? The Islanders where so hungry to make the playoffs that year and I could only imagine if we pulled that off, lets see the following years the Isles put themselves in position to draft Bailey and then Tavares! lol We dont see the Oil playin hard ball on trades. maybe he is here with Hemsky. BUT I hope so, one of those teams will cave, and pay up. too close for comfort, a place where one win moves you from 10th to 6th. Lombardi can wake up and look at the standings!
[Interior, Oilers HQ]
ReplyDelete"Doctor." "Doctor." "Doctor." "Doctor." "Doctor." "Doctor."
I believe Souray can now be traded without any waiver issues. I wonder if taking back a bad salary/contract makes trading him more viable. Still, as they say, a kick in the groin with a cold boot, that one.
ReplyDelete@ Bar Qu
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers have the cap room to take on an overpay contract with someone else taking on Souray's contract. Now, what reclamation project is out there that the Oilers might be intrested in?
Woodguy - you're talking shit again, are you saying that we should accumulate as many good players as possible and that then we may have a good team
ReplyDeleteCrazy talk! :)
The best logic I've read about trading Hemsky was over at the EJ - buddy said that the Oilers are a 30th place team with Hemsky so they may as well trade him. Even though he is their leading scorer and best player.
Right now I'm looking at a piece of cheese that is smarter than that guy.
Woodguy, when did Katz wine and dine Hemsky? That's very interesting if true. I do not want to see Hemmer traded....
ReplyDeleteI believe Souray can now be traded without any waiver issues.
ReplyDeleteExcept everyone that you could trade him to just passed on him @50% off.
If there is a trade for him, we are getting a large bucket of suck in return.
Looks like those footspeed comments were for real.
They can put him on waivers again next weekend after more teams don't get get the player in trade that they want, but its not gonna be a high-percentage move.
For every Horton deal there's a Kessel deal. No way does the Horton deal determine price here.
ReplyDeleteAnd since when was Hemsky one-dimensional?
We are talking about the 6th best F in the league at GFON/60, IIRC. PPG player in regs and playoffs. Gamebreaker. Only 27. He should bring more than Horton.
Anon,
ReplyDeleteKatz and 83 had dinner just before the season started.
BD,
It a crazy concept isn't it? Only unproven GMs like Arbour and Bowman (the elder) have really tried it.
All I can think of is the Rangers. Maybe MTL has a guy they want to get rid of to clear cap room. I'd check capgeek but I've been putting off marking far too long.
ReplyDeleteTambo took a shot a dumping Souray at a time when the market was pretty hot.
ReplyDeleteIt didn't pay off but it was worth the effort.
I guess we can expect Souray to be bought out this summer.
ReplyDeleteNice timing: Hemsky only skater to be named Star of the Week by the NHL. Hedberg & Niemi cop the other two honours.
ReplyDeleteThere's no reason we need to do this at this year's deadline.
ReplyDeleteIf someone gets desperate on deadline day and jacks up the offer significantly, maybe.
Rumours in FLA about wideman being on the way out. Does Souray and Brule make that happen?
ReplyDeleteAs for Hemsky the deal LT is proposing would make me cry. It would be like Trading Doug Weight for Marchment and Grier. I liked both the later players as oilers but I really liked Weight.
Hemmer is an unreal talent. If we trade him for anything less than a Blue Chipper we lose that deal.
We Need Schenn, Forbort, Bernier, and their 1st rounder.
They can have Hemsky and Gerber
Would Teubert even break the present Top 10 Oilers prospect list?
ReplyDeleteIf we're going by the declared 'package' I would be holding out for at least something like these:
Forbort, Simmonds, 1st.
Forbort, Simmonds, Toffoli
At least one of the pieces in the deal has to be projected to first pairing or first line and guaranteed to be 2nd level, or dealing just makes no sense.
And I hope Tambi doesn't get lost in Penner and Hemmer Trade World and remembers to move a couple of spare parts for picks and prospects.
You know like letting a Glencross slip away while the skipper of the Good Ship Oiler sails full speed after a gigantic white whale.
I'm gonna say a lot more but I could just say this and walk away and everyone would feel terrible: when's the last time an Oiler was talked about being traded this much and it Didn't happen?
ReplyDeleteSo, yeah, it's probably gonna go down.
There are two issues here
1. are we sure we can't resign him?
2. who believes we'll get a real player back.
If Lowe could move a value contract and Norris Trophy winner in Pronger and he couldn't even get Perry back - nevermind Getzlaf - then how can we not fret today over what's coming back for 83?
I mean just look at what Matty's floating:
- Schenn isn't available
- Teubert's the dman of choice
- Oilers like Simmonds.
I mean it's all fucking laid out here already.
This reminds me of 94 on the one hand because heading into that deadline day we all knew what was going on with the contract talks and everyday he wasn't signed you had a feeling his era in edm was over.
well here we got a few signs of warning and it's flashing in a large way.
Primarily, through Matheson the Oilers are letting it known that 83 is certainly available and most likely will be moved. And just to rub it in we already know the Kings best prospect or young player isn't available and Lowe aalways falls for that move; plus, Matty basically tells us puts it out there so everyone's ready for the heartache but they already know Lowe couldn't get Schenn so we can only blame him so much.
Given what Matty wrote today, you can mark this sucker down.
83's as good as gone and we'll get the Kings second best prospects in all regards.
Dennis: Was this online? I read that Schenn was unavailable and that Teubert was in play, but did he mention something about Simmons too?
ReplyDeleteI posted the original item (the post) before the paper today, but all of this was on the internet this morning.
All this talk of Simmmons and Teubert is getting me depressed. I am afraid Dennis might be right. And what is with all the yelling in here?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOC-hDULX1c
We can get that garbage trade next year. Id rather watch Hemsky for another year then get 3 players who are never going to be more then third line players, or a number 4 defencemen. If your not getting a grade A prospect, a servicable third liner and Brayden Schenn then the trade is a non starter. Theres no proof Schenn will be more then a second liner. the kings can wait three years for Schenn to develop into a second line center.
ReplyDeleteAgree with Dennis that if our dunce caps take that package then they are complete tools. Better to just keep Hemsky until the deadline next year if he doesn't want to resign as that deal will certainly be there next year as well. I don't want to trade Hemsky....period. But if he wants out then nothing less than Schenn and Forbert is acceptable. Willing to toss any of the dwarfs - Brule, Cogs, Omark on the pile to make it work - or Plante if they want a dman back. But it's those two guys or LA can take a hike.
ReplyDeleteNow if Tuebert and Simmonds for Penner plus a 2nd grade dman prospect is something I would consider seriously - but certainly not Hemsky.
LT: you've probably seen this by now but copied and pasted from Matheson's must read column posted today.
ReplyDeletePart 1:
Ales Hemsky, Edmonton Oilers (right-winger). On a hot streak, with nine points in his last five games. He’d look great with the Los Angeles Kings or the Columbus Blue Jackets. He would cost the Oilers a first-round pick, at least a third and a very good prospect — unless centre Brayden Schenn was in the picture and that’s doubtful. Defenceman Colten Teubert is probably in play, however.
So there's part one.
Part 2:
. Wayne Simmonds, Los Angeles Kings (right-winger). It’s a long-shot to get him out of L.A., but the Oilers are probably asking about him because he’s versatile third-line player with an edge, and he’s a good skater.
Tubert "probably" being in play; Schenn being "doubtful" and the Oilers "probably" asking about Simmonds.
I'm not Mulder but can't you see all this lining up?
The Oilers can't get the Kings russian rearguard or the big american in college but year give them the big lummox.
But they can't get Schenn.
You can have Simmonds though.
all kinds of "assets" and one player right not but nothing resembling 83.
Sound about right with what we normally have to put up with?
Ah, gotcha. I read that Matheson item re: Simmonds but the typo (Oilers instead of Kings) threw me for a loop.
ReplyDeleteI like Simmonds, but not for Hemsky.
Dennis: Just found this from Bob McKenzie's latest article at tsn:
ReplyDeleteLos Angeles has plenty of draft picks and young prospects in Manchester but if the Kings are to part with Brayden Schenn or, and this is a real long shot, Wayne Simmonds, it's going to take an astronomical contract player coming back. Personally, I would be leery of any Kings' trade rumor involving Simmonds or any other young, core player on the Kings' roster.
Story is here:
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=354844
Yeah I retweeted a MacKenzie tweet in the same vein, basically he thinks none of the Simmonds' talk holds water.
ReplyDeleteIn Bob we trust. ;)
Pat: see the Souray thread; McKenzie says 83's going but 27's staying.
ReplyDeleteIf true they must really worry that Hemsky will Gaborik on them since its unlikely in the extreme they'll get a player as good as him. If it works something like the Whitney for Visnovsky deal though it won't be a disaster. We worry about a Pronger or Smyth but truthfully Tambellini's most recent offload is the Visnovsky.
ReplyDeleteIf the trade him then no wonder they're thinking 6-20 years for the rebuild: they're flushing the option of doing it while Hall is still young.
My God, this thing is becoming so muddled. No one knows what's really going on. One (reliable) source says 27 goes, 83 stays. Another says the opposite.
ReplyDeleteI'm with the general consensus here. If what is being reported is likely what you're going to get from LA for 83 this year than no thank you. If he can't be re-signed, what you're likely to get a year from now (hopefully after a full(er) season) should be at least the same or more. There's NO reason to force a deal now. In fact, passing on a deal now might help Tambo get more from his assets in the future. Kind of like a "I-called-your-bluff" type situation. "You say Schenn is not available? Then neither is Hemsky." That ain't a bad strategy... as opposed to "I HAVE to trade my best player, what can you give me in return, please?"
From all reports, this draft year is a crap shoot with a lot of question marks and possible sleepers (I'm anything but an amateur scout, btw). If that's the case, I'm pretty sure quantity, not quality, is what MB needs. I think that could be accomplished by moving some of our more marginal commodities (Jones, Vandermeer, Foster, Frasier, etc). As far as I'm concerned, ANY draft pick you can acquire for those guys is a long term is a victory. There's no way you could convince me that the same could be said with trading 83 or 27 this year. Not a chance.
Here's an interesting hypothetical (may have been proposed already, sorry if it has), if the Oil were in this situation last year, without any knowledge whether he would re-sign or not, would you trade Hemmer for Boston's (aka Burke's) pick (ie Seguin)? Too early to judge Seguin's value obviously, but I'd have a tough time pulling that trigger.