This is Steve Smith. He was named as one of the Oilers assistant coaches today, joining Kelly Buchberger as Tom Renney's helpers.It is not a "traditional" hire, as Smith is not an established assistant coach in another city or a minor league coach looking to cash NHL cheques. Smith has coached in the NHL, but it was a long time ago (97-98). Early reports have him coaching the defensemen, and since the club is looking for men who played the game as he did then maybe this makes sense.
It is an unusual hire, and my initial reaction is a negative one. If he was so good as a coach, why did it take this long for someone to pluck him from the scouting department (in Chicago)? And is Buchberger established enough to be the next-in line? And doesn't this feel a little too much like another "Boys on the Bus" re-set?
On the other hand, I liked the "all-star" cast of coaches last year and that went over like a snowball in a hot place. If Steve Smith can help any of Theo Peckham, Alex Plante, Jeff Petry, Johan Motin, Taylor Chorney and Shawn Belle become a "Steve Smith" type on the blue then this hiring will receive our blessing.
Until then, the jury is out. And a little suspicious.
By all reports Bucky aligned himself with OTC in the OTC vs. Renney fight last year.
ReplyDeleteThe fact that he survives and is still a coach on this team tells me that Vish's hand is still firmly on the throttle of this team.
The Smith hiring is a little strange given he hasn't coached any level in over 10 years and is given a spot a lot of career coaches would give their left nut for.
It felt very wrong when I heard it.
Now that I've digested it some, the after taste is bitter.
How the hell is going to run the PP?
Bucky ran the PK last year and it was terrible.
How do we get rid of Vish?
Smells like its not only players that won't come to the Oilers.
ReplyDeleteDesperation?
I'm not a fan of continuing the OBC, however, I will say that Steve Smith was a fantastic defensive defencemen, and he could be invaluable in teaching Smid, Plante, Peckham and even the more offensive defencemen to play better in their own zones.
ReplyDeleteI'm going to take a wait and see approach before really calling this one. It's no more odd than hiring Jason Smith as defensive coach, as some have suggested... probably even less weird, since he has a few cup rings and a small bit of coaching as well as scouting experience.
Give it a chance before judging, is all I suggest to people. That said though, I think we dropped the ball on some of the good coaches available, but as LT already pointed out, our all-star cast didn't do so well last year.
Cats has been going through the team like Attila the Hun - it probably makes sense(to him) to hire a few familiar faces, to keep some form of continuity to the storied past.
ReplyDeletePS: My money says Cats runs this Oilers team. The underlings(Lowe, Tambo etc), are there to do his bidding.
ReplyDeletesince he has a few cup rings
ReplyDeleteUgh
I guess I wasn't too far wrong when I suggested Don Jackson the other day.
I should've thought of an ex-Oiler d-man with one-quarter the coaching experience.
[And, I understand Jackson may be happy in Berlin, or may be contractually bound]
To me the Steve Smith hire is kind of like undoing the Charlie Huddy firing, which many felt unjust. It's not like he's been completely out of the game, just scouting and not coaching. Lots of time to have developed perspective, but still a relevant point of view, at least I hope.
ReplyDeleteI'd rather Smith than a player who retired last year.
The question on everyone's mind: Will the fans boo him when he's introduced?
I never got the Steve Smith hatefest. One own goal in a 7 game series.
ReplyDeleteMAB on the other hand...
Shoot!
ReplyDeleteMy favorite Oiler of all time.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI don't think many people stayed mad at Steve Smith. After Terry Jones article, most Oilers fans moved their anger to him. In that way, Jones did Smith an enormous favor.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a noob but I'm too embarrassed to fix my handle to this message. Could someone please tell me why Kevin Lowe is sometimes referred to as "Vish"??
ReplyDeleteAnon: He was called Vish because he wasn't (vicious). There's a funny line in Gzowski's book where his Mom thinks everyone is calling him something else (I think it was "fish" this is from memory) but it might have come from Gretzky.
ReplyDeleteOr Sather.
And for the record, he BECAME vicious on defense. Lowe could get downright ornery.
seems like an odd hire.
ReplyDeletei actually don't mind bucky as a coach so much. he coached the Falcons to a .500 record and the team absolutely tanked after he left. some of that was surely roster related, but the Falcons were also awful before he got there. the PK last year was awful but the PKers couldn't win draws to save their lives and i'm not sure the problems were primarily systems related.
i think it is totally unfair to say Bucky is a bad coach or to think of him as pity hire. he clearly has some coaching ability, at least at the AHL level.
Smith, on the other hand, confuses me. it is simply bizarre. maybe Renney wants someone who won't have a lot of independent ideas. Renney could be planning on being a very hands on head coach when it comes to the defense, wanting a good foot-soldier to help execute his ideas.
total headscratcher. Renney just said in a radio interview that Smith's ability as a scout in Chicago meant Smith knows how a team is put together but he's not being hired as a scout or GM so .. confused.
I think this is a good hire. Agreed that it feels a little OBC, but Steve can hopefully bring some solid positioning skills to the D.
ReplyDeleteHunter1909, I agree with your assessment. I put MAB and T. Conkhead way ahead of Steve on my hatefest list.
Although five in a row would have been nice in the 1980s...
What was Smith's beat as scout?
ReplyDeleteSteve: He was listed as a "pro scout."
ReplyDeleteI guess my biggest disappointment is that it seems like they are not letting the Head Coach hire his own staff.
ReplyDeleteIf you are going to trust team to man, how can you not trust him to hire his own staff?
I just don't think Renney had last word here. It seems more like he was given his choice of their choices.
What did Terry Jones say in his article on Steve Smith back in the day that was so over the line? A cursory Google search bore no fruit. So Lowetiders: fruit me up!
ReplyDeleteThink of the assistant coach hires as you would a corporate culture: Renney is the man, with no immediate heir apparent, plotting a coup. This is a good thing at this stage. With Quinn for instance, the "workers" probably felt no doubt: "he sucks and he's getting replaced by the number 2 soon so I am not going to listen to him". This type of organizational behaviour happens all the time in the real world. In great functioning work environments on the other hand, there is a solid number 2, to replace the boss when he decides to leave. Babcock after Bowman, or Muckler after Slats for instance. With Renney the undisputed boss, the "workers" have no doubt who is the leader, and at this stage it makes sense. Surprised no one sees it that way. On a personal note, long time viewer, first time poster. Moved from Toronto in the 70's the year after Neilson got fired, MacDonald got traded and Sittler removed his C in protest, to Yellowknife - talk about a hockey culture shock! Edmonton was the team if you were a yellowknifer, and as a kid playing hockey cheering for "Yellowknife's Team", thought it would never end. Moved back to Toronto just as the Oilers run ended, only to gain an appreciation for how a real team functions, suffering all the fools in Leaf Nation ever since (from Brophy onwards). All this to say discovering Lowetide and the quality of the posts is a reminder that there is more to Hockey than the idiot Buds and "How 'bout those Leafs?" Lowetide is a testament to the OIL fan: a cut above, that demands more from their team and actually appreciates what it takes to be a winner, hates being a loser.
ReplyDeleteGood evening.
ReplyDeleteWhy Steve Smith?
From the horse's mouth...
Gregor's show at about the 24 minute mark of hour 3
hope that link works
If it's Renney's call... I welcome again another big brain in the mix.
I think they said on Oilers Lunch that Smith was doing the advance scouting for the Hawks this past year.
L8r
Louise
About that link...
ReplyDeleteum, yeah... follow the links...
;-D
Geowal: The question on everyone's mind: Will the fans boo him when he's introduced?
ReplyDeleteNothing should ever surprise us here, but I would actually be fairly surprised and extremely disappointed if the fans booed Smith. Really, Smith had a pretty good career that sadly will be remembered for one mistake. Even me, a fan of his back in the day, can't help but bring it up (although in my case, it's as a knee jerk defence of that incident).
Anyways, he was clearly devastated by that play. Anyone else remember who Gretzky handed the cup to the following year? I think we can all move on for that. Personally, I'd give him an ovation if I could be at the first game, just for surviving the last 20-some years as "that guy that scored on his own team" in all hockey and some sports gaffe/blooper videos, as well as enduring all the crap he had to put up from "fans".
First reaction.
ReplyDeleteIs this a joke?
Hmmm, nope.
I guess he will have real world experience to teach the youngsters in regards to break out passes and clearing the puck from your own zone.
All he will have to tell them is Google "Scores on his own net" and see who pops up at #1.
DeeDee: All he will have to tell them is Google "Scores on his own net" and see who pops up at #1.
ReplyDeleteNiklas Backstrom, Shane O'Brien, some soccer player, Dan Boyle, Ryan O'Byrne... oh yes, there he is..
LT: I am having a very difficult time understanding the choices in assistant coaches. Management has decided to go into rebuild mode instead of acquiring the best possible roster through free agency. Would you not want coaches that are proven teachers and developers of skill? Isn't that the whole idea behind rebuilding? This feels like management has 2 steps forward and now one step backwards.
ReplyDeleteI thought it might have been Paul Coffey. He was at the Oilers table at the Draft. So where does Paul Coffey fit in??
ReplyDeleteAs much as I want to see less of the OBC here, I sure wouldn't complain if Paul Coffey were behind the bench running our PP. Mind you, Gretzky wasn't a very good coach, so it doesn't matter how good of a player Coffey was.. he might make a horrible coach.
ReplyDeleteAnyways.. wait and see with what we got ;)
Oh and in an interview with Renney, he made it sound as though the hiring was his decision (which it should be). I still think it wouldn't be wrong to think that Lowe or Katz maybe dropped some subtle hints about Smith though, as he said he hadn't really talked to him until 3 weeks ago. Also, he mentioned that he might still be looking for another coach (and well, I'd have to assume that coach #4 would be a guy that would be more offensive minded to run the PP).
I'm not anywhere I can listen to the Renney interview.
ReplyDeleteCan anyone post the Cole's notes please?
Woodguy - Renney has succumbed to the brainwashings. Everything is super.
ReplyDeleteWorking on a summary of Renney's interview..
ReplyDeleteSure WG.
ReplyDeleteIn a Nutshell, this is what TR had to say about SS:
He's been involved in hockey scouting since before the lockout, and has watched the game progress. He's watched the game change, and has a good read on where it is headed. He was involved in pre-scouting other teams for the blackhawks cup run this past year, and (reading between the lines) provided good reads on other teams for the hawks.
The ig message I came out of the interview with from Renney was "Bringing this guy on board was my call, and if you don't like it that's your problem. He's going to help make this team better".
Now, I don't listen to Renney a lot, but listening to his manner in this interview gave me the impression he has a lot of confidence in this hire.
Basically, if you think Renney is a smart hockey guy, then you probably like this hire, because it doesn't seem to have ST's fingerprints on it. ST hires guys with a track record. Always. This guy doesn't have much of one, leading me to think Renney made this happen - especially after you hear him talk about Smith.
After the interview, I like the hire a lot. He sounds like a guy who will have a good impact on the D-men. Maybe Huddy v2.0.
If Smith is Huddy 2.0, and we're at ST 3.0, does that make Renney MacT 2.0?
I've forgiven him.
ReplyDeleteMoved on.
He was a great player.
"I've forgiven him.
ReplyDeleteMoved on.
He was a great player."
That was in reference to comments on Smith and the error.
From what I heard it was Tambo who met Smith this year and absolutely took to him. I think one of the reporters out there also mentioned that Bucky was offered the OKC job, balked and thus was not sent. Sorry, no link.
ReplyDeleteBucky must be pretty well-thought of, if that's the case.
One thing I'll add to Jordan's summarization... Renney also mentioned that he will choose captains based on who shows leadership. Feels that there are a few guys though that do show good leadership here. He also said that he might start the year with 3 A's and then let the captain emerge.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Robin basically gave him the "wtf, MacIntyre again?" question and asked why a guy that Quinn didn't like would be back. Renney mentioned that he likes guys that can play and aren't just straight enforcers, but felt they'd be able to dedicate a lot more time to helping MacIntyre develop the necessary skills... something he didn't think they were able to last year.
IceDragoon - Big brains seem to be part of the problem - not the solution.
ReplyDeleteThis organization thought itself so smart that it did not even have to spend on a farm team.
I don't see much evidence of wisdom.
Instead of 'another'(?) big brain, I hope to see evidence of the first wise man management in a long time.
The Oilogosphere doesn't like the new coaches but at it should be said that they would also welcome back Craig MacTavish who has brought his same winning ways to team Canada.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Rob Schremp re-signed today with the Islanders. No word on the Pouliot front.
Traktor: The Oilogosphere doesn't like the new coaches but at it should be said that they would also welcome back Craig MacTavish who has brought his same winning ways to team Canada.
ReplyDeleteJust goes to show you can't take the Oilogospehere at face value. MacTavish was always an idiot and still is. Idiots on the rebound? Not! Have no fear though Oilogospherics. The OBC never really leaves. Some villages lost soul is still in the background advising on something we don't need and making piss poor player appraisals.
(sidenote to LT which may make me look like as big an idiot as the former Oilers coach). Why do I have to keep recreating my login info everytime I want to reply to a post? Can never just enter my user name and password = GO doing the Google account thingy)
trak - I think MacT was the best man for Nelson's job in OKC and Nelson seems to be better qualified for Smith's job.
ReplyDeletederrick: I disliked MacTavish as coach as much as anyone, but calling him an idiot? Yikes. The guy is a smart guy. I think the problem is he's too smart.
ReplyDeleteAh, Deano. You are reading a lot into my few words.
ReplyDeleteThat said, anyone who knows me is aware of my passion for high IQs. "When the assets are similar, bet on the brains." ... just seems so logical.
;-D
I know Renney and Smith to be very smart men. I also know that Buchberger is a lot smarter than many seem to think. And... Renney wants another career coach/teacher for his team. A team with many very smart young men with varied skills.
This makes me smile, because I happen to love the game of hockey, and I quite enjoy watching players improve.
Whenever I think about management I get angry. I don't like myself when I'm angry, so I don't give any of my valuable time to worrying about the numbnuts upstairs. I'll control what I can, and continue making sacrifices to the hockey gods. thankyouverymuch.
TSN: Mikko Koivu, seven year extension, 6.75 million dollar cap hit. In other words, 50k MORE per season than Pavel Datsyuk.
ReplyDeleteDiscuss.
Link to TSN article on Koivu.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the re-cap guys.
ReplyDeleteDid Renney metion why Bucky is one of his coaches?
As much as Smith was a surprise, Bucky was almost even moreso given the rumors he took OTC's side of the rift.
All that being said, Renney seems to be smart, and proof will be on the ice.
Now,
Can they get a vet RW,C and 3D?
IceDragoon - I am very aware of both of your recurring themes:
ReplyDeletei) big brains are valuable
ii) a good woman makes the young man
There is little evidence to either support or refute these positions.
I consider coaches management.
Koivo's salary structure is interesting, HBomb.
ReplyDeletecapgeek
$7.29MM in 11'-12', 13'-14', 15'-16'
$5.4MM in 12'-13', 14'-15', 16'-17'
AND $9.18MM in 17'-18'
Deano.
I think coaches are hired by management to directly impact the players who put on the show for us.
Perhaps this is my very own disconnect. In any case, I embrace it.
:-)
IceDragoon: indeed, that is interesting. But it really does boil down to cap hit though, at least when I look at it (annual salary really only matters for team budgetary purposes).
ReplyDeleteKoivu's now getting paid like he's one of those "elite 20" centers I like to talk about when discussing the upper tier of the position, when, at face value, he'd appear to be more part of the family of guys like Kesler, Horcoff and Langkow - all good hockey players nonetheless, but part of the "2nd" tier of centre icemen out there.
Good player, potentially a VERY bad contract. However, if the guy turns out to become Datsyuk II and becomes a point per game guy that plays both ways, it doesn't look so bad. But as of right now, there's some "burden of proof" on Koivu to justify the Wild's investment here.
"Koivu's now getting paid like he's one of those "elite 20" centers I like to talk about when discussing the upper tier of the position, when, at face value, he'd appear to be more part of the family of guys like Kesler, Horcoff and Langkow"
ReplyDeleteKesler
Koivu
Horcov/Langkov
I agree with you, HBomb. Koivu's (spelled correctly in this comment ;-D should have copied/pasted) salary is quite a scary benchmark for players with similar boxcars.
ReplyDeleteKoivu is what we wish Horcoff was.
ReplyDeleteI'd say he's a top 20 center in this league.
Traktor: there isn't some sort of huge gap between those two pairs of players. Not a chance. In fact, if you go over to mc79's site, you'll see that Horcoff and Kesler are pretty much the exact same player when it comes to production at evens, with Kesler being a somewhat more dangerous PP threat. My guess is Koivu's numbers would fall into the same ballpark, and I'm also guessing we'll see Mr. Dellow address this in his usually-fine fashion at some point.
ReplyDeleteAll fine players for sure. But all out of the same family of players. This Koivu contract puts the Horcoff and Kesler deals to shame in terms of "overpay" for that class of centerman.
Racki:
ReplyDeleteNothing should ever surprise us here, but I would actually be fairly surprised and extremely disappointed if the fans booed Smith.
Agree completely and it would seem many here also do. I hope that now that he is now longer in uniform for "the other guy" he will get the respect he deserves.
Katz was supposed to bring a new day to Oiler hockey - but it will neve happen as long he continues to keep Lowe around. The stench that hangs around Vish continues to affect the franchise - and the longer he stays - the more that stink starts be part of Katz as well.
ReplyDeleteThese coaching decisions are ludicrous - nobody can tell me Renny wants any part of these two losers as his support system - or better people were not available to work with the special teams and dmen. This is more of Lowe adding to the gaggle of old boys and low functioning "yes men" that hang around this franchise like leeches - and it continue to tear down a once proud franchise and drive good people away.
What did Terry Jones say in his article on Steve Smith back in the day that was so over the line? A cursory Google search bore no fruit. So Lowetiders: fruit me up!
ReplyDeleteNo response to this? I'm curious too.
Speaking of own goals.
ReplyDeleteThat 30 in 30 series ESPN put together and TSN is airing has some real gems.
Just caught "The Two Escobars" on my PVR and it was excellent.
My recollection is Lowe got the "Vish" handle - which indeed is short for "Vicious" - after he went apeshit on Tony McKegney in this game way back on Simon Gagne's birthday, in the Oilers' first NHL season. Not sure what McKegney did during the fight, but Lowe wound up putting the boots to him quite literally, drawing two match penalties for deliberate attempt to injure (kicking). Oilers wound up shorthanded for twelve (12) minutes. I still remember the penalty clock, it couldn't do double digits of course, so it recorded #4 with a 9:00 penalty and #4 with a 3:00 penalty. Absolutely weird. Don't think I've ever seen a team play as many minutes shorthanded for a single player's non-coincidental penalties.
ReplyDeleteOilers actually killed the penalty, allowing one goal when Colin Campbell (yeah, that guy) took a penalty to make them two men short, but scoring a shortie with 20 seconds left in the very extended penalty. (The summary is in error showing it as an even strength goal.) So they sawed off that portion of the game 1-1.
The other detail I remember to this day was the intensity of that extended kill, Lee Fogolin and Campbell were throwing Sabres around like ninepins while the ref mostly kept his whistle in his pocket. The fans were going crazy, and when the Oil scored at the tail end of the PK the standing ovation was absolutely amazing. Get shivers thinking about it today, over 30 years on. But it certainly wasn't Kevin Lowe's finest hour.
PS: Anybody who boos Steve Smith is a muttonhead. He was a kid thrust into a tough situation due to injury, and he made A colossal blunder. One.
ReplyDeleteHe later was a key player for three Stanley Cup champion teams. He's an all-time Oiler, and a great one.
I have less of a specific memory of Terry Jones' interpretation of events, other than it was a typical Jones hatchet job. That's the guy who should be called "Vish" given the typical quality of his columns after the home team gets eliminated. "Weak-kneed wimps" in 1982, the successful Dump Damon Allen column in 1994, the successful Dump Tom Higgins column in 2004 (both one year removed from a Grey Cup triumph). He trashed Smith as well, can't remember exactly what he called him but it was small-minded, ignorant and vicious in Jones' signature fashion.
ReplyDeleteA small comment of interest RE: Katz' role within the Oilers:
ReplyDeleteI work for a company that Katz has a large stake in, and about 4 months ago almost the entire corporate side was replaced by men hand picked by Katz, including a former exec at Rexall. It's not a huge company, but it does strike me that the guy takes a keen and direct interest in his buisness interests, so I think we can say with some confidence that Katz is playing an active roll in some of the major decisions, at least on the operations side.
Traktor, I take it that you've gone back to the year-old MacTavish territory because the timing's wrong to remind us that Cogliano > Gagner?
ReplyDelete@Masamax:
ReplyDeleteI don't know Katz from Adam, but understand enough about the dynamics of business leadership to know he's taking a strong approach to what amounts to his worldwide communication company, the Oilers.
I've seen a major shakeup in coaching, players, farm team, and drafting this season. Old timers have been handed their walking papers, and most importantly, there are three prospects coming into training camp that are the envy of the league.
It's one thing to cut out deadwood, and another thing to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Cat's wants to build a winning dynamic, and there's nothing wrong with having old boys around - in fact it is a good thing, so long as they can provide a sense of continuity to the organisation, and not just be taking the mick, living in the past, and being useless.
Renney has a similar disciplined to the game approach than Mact does, but doesn't come across like a 43 year old virgin Schoolmarm to the players. Anyway the Steve Smith goal never bothered me, even though i was a die hard fan then - it was like a speed bump on the road to a ten cup winning dynasty.
Horcoff is just not in the same realm as Koivu and Kesler. Kesler rides on top.
ReplyDeleteKesler had toughest opposition on his team as F and 2nd on team overall, with okay help (-0.020)
Probably if he'd be first center on a team he would have gone over PPG. He was the ideal 2nd Center this year, and (Would) have been a good N1 guy.
Hbomb (Now don't react too quickly and shout me stuff if i'm going the wrong way):
But Kesler and Horcoff's numbers don't look the same too much.
Ryan Kesler 82 25 50 75 1
Shawn Horcoff 77 13 23 36 -29
Kesler's
PTS/60 : 2.29
GA/60 : 3,09
GF/60: 2,93
REL COR: 11,0
Horcoff's
PTS/60 : 1,37
GA/60 : 3,42
GF/60 : 1,82
REL COR : 0,6 (Funny that Nilsson's in the tops =P)
fpv: All I'm going to say is it's pretty easy to cherry pick and look at what was the season where Kesler had a career year and Horcoff had probably his worst.
ReplyDeleteLook back at the previous couple seasons, when Horcoff had wingers that weren't total crap, and he "rode on top" too.
I repeat - same family of player, all three. Specifically with regards to Kesler and Horcoff, however, here's the fine work that mudcrutch79 did back in March. This is what you call a fair and balanced comparison.
Pro scout? Does this mean he did the prep work for upcoming Hawks games?
ReplyDeleteHbomb: Yet one's in his prime (well was i guess) and the other has just entered it.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Kesler ever played with a player like Hemsky either.
All i'm saying is picking a guy's first two full years and then throwing it in a mix, comparing to a guy's prime is pretty damn much cherry picking.
ReplyDeleteHey Bruce, the trashing by Jones of Steve Smith memory problem that everyone is having could be related to the following:
ReplyDeleteBack when it happened, I was still a teenager living at home in the country - about an hour out of Edmonton. There was two articles that were actually submitted. The one that went out in the early printing to the country side that was a bit more toned down and then the prime printing that was distributed in Edmonton.
My older bro was living in Edmonton and he saw the edmonton version which was a real hatchet job by Jones. It went something like (paraphrasing now) he compared the bone headed move by Smith as ranking up there with the all time losers in sports. He made a comparison to a comeback boxer who didn't win his fight via knockout because he forgot step away for the manadatory 8 count (sorry, can't remember who the boxer was) and then said that Smith was the dumbest of the lot, or something like that.
Anyways, that's the best I can recollect it.
Vince, yes, he did the pre-game scouting for Hawks games.
ReplyDeletefpb: Nope, I won't argue that - and it's explicitly mentioned in the comparison too. You get a choice of Horcoff or Kesler, you take Kesler. But based on track record, you can see why their salaries are comparable.
ReplyDeleteAs for Koivu, like I said earlier, I can't confirm it, but my guess are that, broken down, his numbers wouldn't look terribly different from Kesler or Horcoff's. Minnesota's effectively paid him with the expectation he's going to step into the top-20 tier of centers. Is he one of those guys? Time will tell.
Jones article was among the most noxious I've ever seen. You have to remember that the team, the organization and the town were absolutely crushed by the defeat.
ReplyDeleteJones article was full of venom but he missed the mark. Oilers fans WERE mad at Steve Smith, but he was also one of our own. So when the article appeared it becamse a rallying point for fans and players, which reached its crescendo when 99 handed the Stanley to Smith the next spring.
I wish my memory would allow for specifics, but Jones did write the article and fans turned on him for it. Steve Smith didn't lose the Stanley, there was time on the clock and the Oilers were at their peak.
I don't recall an Oiler fan who had a bad word to say about Steve Smith after that column. The words were too much, the anger too far.
Good on Oilers fans for getting it right.
I just can't believe Terry Jones would be so far off base......he has such a stellar reputation for honesty and fairness :-}
ReplyDeleteAO, why are you so convinced Lowe is still having a major impact?
ReplyDeleteNot only that, but why would you be against these hirings? Steve Smith has been working as pro scout for the Blackhawks. He's the one who gathers the information about the upcoming opponent and is the one who feeds it to the coaching staff so that they can help prepare.
There isn't that much difference between coaching (as an assistant) and pro scouting. Sure, Renney probably got to know Smith because of Lowe, but that's probably where the line ends.
As I stated, way way back, during the Hall/Seguin saga, and following, this boys club needs to go. They say one thing and do the other. They knew how to play the game but don't know how to build or manage the game/team.
ReplyDeleteIf they're lucky, and beleive me they have been, since they're epic failure provided a #1 draft pick and heck they couldn't screw up the #1 draft pick because there were two #1 picks, and even with that I still feel they made the wrong choice but we're not debating that here. Tambo is a yes man and anyone who would argue this is his team has enjoyed to much of the kool-aid.
My ten year-old with a little directional prodding could make some of the decisions this group has been making. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look at other successful teams and at some point begin to say, "Hey they tried this why don't we try it and see if it works".
Come on Oiler nation WAKE-UP!!!
Anon: This is the education of Darryl Katz. I've said this before, but Mike Illitch purchased the Red Wings in 1982.
ReplyDeleteThey won the Stanley in 1997.
It takes time.
Anon, most probably understand and empathize with your view of things. It's just that sometimes when you're spending your time on silly things like hockey it's better for your health and sanity to take the glass half full view of things.
ReplyDeleteDidn't a wise man once say "Always look on the bright side of life"
ED: Amen. The World is so full of shit the only way to remain sane and live is to be totally oblivious to the dark side of things.
ReplyDeleteHbomb: Agreed, though I think there's other factors we should take account of:
ReplyDelete1st : Horcoff was at the near-end of his peak (29) while Kesler is entering his (25) (We could argue what the peak is, but I would suggest 24-30).
2nd: The Pedigree, Kesler is younger, and his pedigree suggests there's room for improovement, Teams would have likely more gone out of theyr way to sign Kesler than Horcoff, seeing there was room for improvement on Kesler's end.
3rd: The general opinion, sure Horcoff may be considered saw-off with Kesler here, (On the contract years) but it's severly not the case leaguewide. If you ask anyone, they'l take Kesler over Horcoff any day of the week. And even let's say we run back the clock, I would bet a lot, Horcoff wouldn't have gotten what Kesler (If both went UFA) would have had, had he been UFA. In short, the others think Kesler is widely superior, if you think your guy is saw-off, then good, but it doesn't mean you have to pay interior value, pay the exterior value (If lower).
This is the education of Darryl Katz. I've said this before, but Mike Illitch purchased the Red Wings in 1982.
ReplyDeleteThey won the Stanley in 1997.
It takes time.
He also fired a bunch of general managers. When do we get to that stage of the proceedings?
MC: 8 years after he hired Jim Devellano (first hire by Illitch, spring 1982. Jimmy D was a big part of that beauty Islanders management group), Illitch brought in Bryan Murray.
ReplyDeleteMurray did wonderful things for 4 years, and then got punted in favor of a three-pronged group (Devellano, Bowman and Holland)and then Holland became GM in fact right after the first Stanley.
So, 8 years. But my bet is that Lowe, Tambellini and any number of current managers will be there in some capacity 10 years from now.
fpb: agreed they'd take Kesler over Horcoff right now. But would they take a 27 yr old horcoff (05-06) over a 25 yr old kesler?
ReplyDeleteHorcoff - 22 goals, 51 assists, 85 pims, even +/-, 1400 faceoffs taken = 52.7% rate. Not sure of corsi and all that, but that is the season he got paid for at his prime (which sucks for us as after he got hurt the next year he hasn't been the same).
Kesler - 25 goals, 50 assists, +1, 104 pims, 1400 faceoffs, 54% ratio.
i think they are comparables, but what makes me like that Horcoff is he was our #1, while Kesler gets #2 matchups, and that makes a world of difference when you go against the softer defensive lines every night, while Horcoff had the tough lifting at as our #1 that year.
yes Kesler today is better then Horcoff today, but i actually think they are pretty comparable across the board, with Kesler being more physical and Horcoff being better in his own zone.
One important notes on the comparison in Kesler's and Horcoff's contracts that shouldn't be left out of the argument: Horcoff gave up 6 years of UFA status, Kesler gave up 4. To me, a 1.5M / year premium on UFA status sounds high but at least reasonable.
ReplyDeleteHorcoff is overpaid, we get it... but he's still the most complete player on the team, and worth at least 80% of those pennies. If we are going to have one bad contract (and every team does), we should be glad ours is him.
gonandsgo- Khabibulin, Souray and Vandermeer all say 'Hi'.
ReplyDeleteAlso, we just flushed Moreau, Staois, POS, Nilsson.
mc79Hockey, but the wings were busy firing coaches, alot, before they ditched general managers. It was a coaching carousel there for a while.
ReplyDeleteSince 1982, 11 coaches. 5 in the first decade.
Wings Coaches
GM's a lot less. Since '82, either 6 or 4 depending on how you count the trifecta of Holland/Bowman/Jimmy D.
Wings GMs
Steve Smith was an extremely solid presence in his own zone at a time when the Oilers were beating everyone in the league. I was a big fan of his and liked to watch him flatten people like Peplinski with a gloved top-hand shot to the chest (although any shot to Peplinski's yap was sweetest). He calmed the puck behind the goal line, was great with positioning and feared nobody.
ReplyDeleteThe "own goal" was as much a case of Fuhr unexpectedly putting his leg in the path of Smith's pass as Smith's poor aim. The pass was through middle of the crease, but at the time Smith IDed his target a split-second earlier, Fuhr's leg was headed out of the way, someone was coming around the net and the 'Lames were on a line change. Fuhr did a little stop-turn-around and Smith's pass was off the heel of his stick a little bit. Boom. Too bad it happened, but as LT says, it's mostly too bad we couldn't have gotten that one back and all have forgotten about it by now. I'm sorry for Smith today that our vaunted offence at the time didn't recompense him for that accident, and that's as much of the fault for that loss, in my mind. The 'Lames were lucky that day.
I'm not sure what Smith'll bring to the coaching staff but if it's teaching those kids to play a solid game like he did, I'm good with that. It's positive that he's been at the rink all these years. I think a good advance scout expertly identifies weaknesses in players and teams, so I'm hoping that now he can also help to rectify them.
Thanks for the memory jog, Bruce. I think I was part of that standing O following that 12-minute kill. Was up in the nosebleeds so I had a hard time seeing what kicking Lowe did, but I remember responding with applause to the boys sticking up for their guy. I hope we can get back to some of that.
DBO: Horcoff being the #1 in 05/06 is a popular belief, but look back at the TOI charts, and see what matchups were being made. MacTavish was using Peca/Dvo against the heavies a lot.
ReplyDeletein 06/07, starting at about the 20 game mark up until Stoll busted his noggin, MacT was using Stoll exclusively as the #1 heavies guy.
Look Here
Oilers sign Greg Stewart: http://oilers.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=534530
ReplyDeleteTHN lists him as having little offense, no defense, and no hockey sense. By all reports, a straightforward crash-and-banger with a good attitude.
Seems to be OKC's designated scrapper/character guy. A very '10 Tambellini move IMO.
Also this is fun: http://www.hockeyfights.com/fights/48257
The rest of his fight card is worth a perusal, too. Not a ton of wins, but the kid's got moxie!
Whether it was a Katz, Lowe, Tambellini or Renney call on hiring Steve Smith, it is extremely likely that Lowe put his stamp of approval on it. One area where the oft-maligned Lowe gets a modicum of credit is when it comes to assessing defensemen. Obviously he has a history with Smith, and the "OBC" connection with Smith doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. After all, the Charlie Huddy "OBC" link is rarely brought up since Huddy is generally acknowledged around here for having a knack for teaching the position (there are rumblings in Dallas that dispute that: No Love for D Coach in Dallas)
ReplyDeleteSteve Smith, at 6’4” was a solid defensive defenseman who was no slouch at the offensive end either. He had several seasons in the mid-50 point range, and was light years better at moving the puck than the later captain with the same last name, Jason Smith (a guy who I would go to war with any time). His manhandling of the 50 goal Cam Neely in the SCFs was a clinic on how to neutralize a dominant power forward. Steve Smith and 6’5” Jeff Beukeboom were an imposing pairing to say the least.
With the Oiler defence getting bigger lately, and with some rangy/downright giraffes coming along in the system like Plante, Marincin, etc., who better to teach them to use that size to advantage than a guy like Steve Smith. He played his position intelligently in his own end, could hit a ton, shoot the puck reasonably well and make the smart play to move the puck. I have no idea if he will be a crappy coach or not, but if Smith can make any of these big, raw defensemen play the game anywhere near as well as he did I will be very happy. If he can turn one of them into Beukeboom, I wouldn’t be sad either.
Okay, so I couldn't locate the original Terry Jones article, so I went and got it old school. Off to the library, printed it from microfiche.
ReplyDeleteI typed it in and posted it for your reading pleasure.
Terry Jones Steve Smith
I think the first comment on this thread is incredibly disrespectful. Kevin Lowe should be celebrated for the many things he did right. I challenge the KLowe bashing crew to find a GM who didn't make mistakes, and when they do, I have a bridge to sell them.
ReplyDeleteIt's a cliche, but the truth is that the trouble with leadership is that you know you're not doing a good job unless some people can't stand you. Otherwise you're not leading anyone, you're just keeping the seat warm.
If some of the folks who demand KLowe's head on a plate did half as much for Edmonton and the Oilers as he has done, they would be well off.
JMHO. Your mileage may vary.
Thanks for the legwork, Reg; I remember reading that now. Since I rarely read the Sun anymore, I had forgotten what a piece of "work" TJ could be.
ReplyDeleteIn my "saw it in the 80's" memory filter, most fans, including myself, viewed that gaffe as a horrible accident that could have happened to anyone. The way Smith faced the music head on and still made himself into a damn good player afterwards was a great example for all of us.
Some people can choose to remember him from a funny tv show list of sport's bloopers, but I choose to remember Steve Smith's story arc with Oilers as a lesson in maturity and perseverance.
You are welcome hoil. The part about the article that gets me is how harsh it was.
ReplyDeleteI've seen that replay hundreds of times and when you see it, you realize it was a bad pass by Smith, but it was a casual/lazy play by Fuhr who let up and didn't realize he needed to get back into position. A combination of both and the puck was in the net.
I always thought there was about 10 minutes left in the 3rd, but the article says nearly 15 min. That hockey team should have scored 2 or 3 goals in that time frame and dealt with the issue.
The '06 run was tragic in the fact Conks messed up with so little time that the Oilers couldn't recover game 1.
I agree with other comments on this blog with the fact MacT made a minor coaching error. Why dress Conks in the final when you know if an injury occurs you will be going with Jussi for the rest of the run. If Jussi is on the bench we might have had a different game 1 outcome. IMHO.
"If some of the folks who demand KLowe's head on a plate did half as much for Edmonton and the Oilers as he has done, they would be well off."
ReplyDeleteFour years out of the playoffs. Last place last year. All despite having one of the bigger payrolls in the league. If only some of the folks did half that much...
Days late to the party..
ReplyDeleteBut who the F' is going to coach the PP?..