The Edmonton Oilers scouting staff have completed their draft meetings. They have "the list" and one has to assume that there is one name at the top. Yesterday, Steve Tambellini told us "we’re not making our decision until the final end. Both players know that. I don’t think there’s any wrong answer here. There’s lots of reasons to go either way."Tambellini did say "it’s getting clearer to what might be separating the players" but the crazy thing is that Hall and Seguin are so close (and opinions so varied) a regular fan is left to wonder.
Which is fine. However, the rants are getting edgier (on this blog and others) and it still mystifies me how people can be so certain.
Hall is clearly the more famous fellow and I believe he would be the more popular choice among the fanbase. I would urge Tambellini to disregard the fanbase in this case and ask Stu (Magnificent Bastard) MacGregor to had him a name and then read the damn thing at the podium.
The Edmonton Oilers are a couple of weeks away from one of the most significant moments in their history. There's almost no way to blow it, unless overthinking causes them to do something really stupid. The Stanley Cup winners in 2009 and 2010 had at their center high draft picks who made a difference. The Oilers have a chance for their Toews, for their Kane, for their Malkin.
I don't think there's much left to talk about on this issue. The draft has gifted Edmonton and Boston with two number one picks and no clear third candidate. There is no way to bollocks the thing. Right?
As long as they don't draft a Steve Kelly type
ReplyDeleteI'm OK
Has this sucker blinked yet?
I want MacGregor to flip a coin on stage for all to see before whispering in Tambo's ear.
ReplyDeletethere really isn't much left to say about "The Pick"...other than let the fans continue to bicker why their choice is better. can't blame Oiler fans for being scared we could blow it by picking the less dynamic of the two, after all we've seen Hall play a lot but not Seguin, so there is a fear of the unknown factor with Oiler fans when it comes to Seguin. Hall would be a much safer pick, IMO.
ReplyDeleteI think in this case Hall's the shiny thing -- albeit the real thing as well -- while Seguin would be a pick you'd have to defend a little initially if say he goes back to junior and Hall scores 25-30 goals playing for the B's but ultimately Seguin ends up being the more valuable player.
ReplyDeleteIf the Oilers have patience and the longview and give some idea to positional depth then they draft Tyler and if they don't then it's Taylor.
@Dennis....i still think the Oilers will try to either get Spezza or a similar #1 or #2 center, right up until the draft, then take Hall. if they can't get said center, i feel they will pick Seguin, hence the "i can't tell you who we'll pick right now" stuff.
ReplyDeleteWhat about sending Horcoff, and maybe Cogliano, to Ottawa for Spezza? You get a better offensive center and one who can win faceoffs as well. It doesn't really touch the young core and you get someone who can put up more points. And the salary figures would be close. Just a thought.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, there Is a way to Bollocks the damn thing - by picking the guy who turns out with the lesser career. Also, unfortunately, there seems no way to figure out which one it will be. So they're both great picks, but one of them will be Greater. In a few years we'll know which was which. Meantime we examine their ear-wax leavings for a Sign, or else we pretend to know what's what and shout everyone else down. Leave it to Stu,not that he's some kind of magic,but his guess will be as good as anybody's. And he has to wear it. A good Dman pick/prospect coming back from B would tip the scale - if you can't determine BPA you get to blend in a little bit of Need at the same time. So you get something out of winning the lottery, with 1 and 2 being a toss-up.
ReplyDeleteFrom Capgeek for Horcoff:
ReplyDeleteNMC (through 2012-13);
NTC (for 2013-14, starting July 1, 2013, player can provide list of 10 teams to which he will accept a trade);
no NMC/NTC for 2014-15.
One way for things to get bollocksed up: The Oilers refuse to lose thecaptainethanmoreau and then sit #1 next to him in the dressing room. I can hear thecaptain now...
ReplyDelete"I'm not stuck in here with you... ...you're stuck in here with me! ...
With the great Chicago run and their subsequent cap issues, does anyone think the Oil could poach Patrick Sharp? He'd be a perfect fit as our 1C. He kills penalties, plays the PP point, is in the same age bracket as Hemksky and Penner and has 2 years left on his deal. Could we have the best of both worlds? Trade for Sharp, sign a vet or two to fill out the roster and send Seguin back to Junior, one or both of Eberle/MPS to minors, and take a shot the next 2 years with vets while letting the kids play big minutes int he minors, thereby stretching out their UFA date. It woudl give us the ability to see how the kids develop, bring them up slowly (which many people have pressed for on this blog) and give us valuable pieces for trade the next few eyars in Sharp, Hemsky and Penner if they do not want to re sign.
ReplyDeleteSharp ($3.9 mill cap hit) and Ladd (needs rfa raise. prob $2 mill)
for
cogliano (RFA prob $1.25 mill), JFJ (RFA $750k), Riley Nash and Nashvilles 2nd rd pick
- Saves chicago $3.9 mill in cap space and nets them a solid return.
oil lineup
MPS-Sharp-Hemsky
Penner-Gagner-Brule
Ladd-Horcoff-Pou
Jones-Potulny-Stortini
not a bad lineup and only 1 rookie this coming year. Then Seguin can come in next year as a 4th liner and ease into the lineup along with Eberle. And in 2012 we are younger, cheaper and possibly better (especially if at least 1 of those UFA's in penner, Hemsky and Sharp) choose to re-sign.
DBO,
ReplyDeleteCogs,JFJ, Nash- those are throw-ins, sweeteners. I'm missing the part where Chicago gets something real in that swap. Would you let Sharp on that contract go for magic beans?
Maybe if the Oilers management weren't so totally cack handed(you don't get a 30th place team by accident) the fanbase wouldn't be 80-90% cynical regarding them.
ReplyDeleteI see a snake oil medicine show(made even more perfect since it's now officially a drug company manufacturing the product), constantly feeding misinformation re it's true intentions combined by one idiotic move after another. Either way you cut it, it ain't pretty.
Right now their real design is to get that giant clamshell built. And making sure the new owner and his ego are judiciously stroked just right by Kevin"6 cups" Lowe.
Alice: not sure chicago is going to have much bargaining power in trades with their cap situation so bad. Brower moves up to ladd's spot, Bolland moves up to Sharp's spot, and cogs has a chance to slide into Bolland's 3c spot. not saying it's great for them, just wondered what it would take. Chicago is going to need to move $5 or $6 mill off their cap and that is taking into account the option of them moving Huet to the minors.
ReplyDeleteIf we are shooting for 2012 to be a good year, maybe in order to get Sharp you take Huet back (sending Bulin the other way). Huet is servicable and at least healthy and his cap falls off in 2 years, right at the time of the Penner and Hemsky deals. Gives us flexibility and tons of cap space in 2012 when our youth is ready to step up and play a major role.
There is no way to bollocks the thing. Right?
ReplyDeleteG. Bettman, 5:03pm, June 25:
"We have a trade to announce - Edmonton trades the first overall pick to Ottawa for Jason Spezza".
So yes, there is a way to bollocks the thing. But I don't think even Steve Tambellini would do it. John Ferguson Jr? Maybe...
There is no real way to get this wrong. One pick may look bad in retrospect, but that will be because of injury which you cannot predict a priori.
ReplyDeleteI saw an interview with Hall and Seguin by Gene Principe a week ago or so. Hall is definitely broader/huskier than Seguin. I would say looking at them side by side that if they end up the same height, I would expect Hall to be the heavier man of the two by 15-20lbs once they have filled out into men. If that's important to the Oil, it is something to consider. That said, boys can continue to grow until age 19-20, so it is hard to know how tall they will each end up, or if one is already done growing.
It's so much easier for the NFL scouts from that perspective since they are almost always drafting men in their early 20's who have finished growing and filling out.
What Alice said -- that's the ticket.
ReplyDeleteRe: Patrick Sharp to Edm
ReplyDeleteWhat about Horcoff for Sharp and Campbell? I'm not sure I'd do it, but I keep thinking about it.
Just brainstorming, but if Connelly slips to like 8-12 in the draft, would the Oilers maybe make a play at moving up and drafting him?
ReplyDeleteIf their doctors feel he's not a risk, he's by far the third most talented player in this draft.
If they could move up, he COULD be the center they need also.
Anyone??
Best outcome I can think of is Tambellini and Lowe walking up to the podium for the first pick.
ReplyDeleteAnd announcing a trade with Boston for the #2 spot.
And then drafting BOTH of them.
git er done boys.
Ashley:
ReplyDeleteDuring the season, Seguin was weighed at 172 lb by Central scouting, while Hall was weighed at 186 lb.
At the combine, Seguin weighed in at 182 lb (and 7.0% body fat) while Hall weighed in at 185 lb(and 7.4% body fat)
this following link goes to an excel sheet that I didn't create, so buyer beware, but I think it's safe as it comes from centralscouting.nhl.com:
Complete combine results
My proposal would be Hemsky for Ryder + 2nd overall. Edmonton would add a conditional 1st round in 2014 if Hemsky signs with another team after his contract expires.
ReplyDeleteBoston doesn't add salary, gets their elite winger, plus insurance if he bolts.
Edmontons draft rebuild is complete after 2011 draft, likely being top 3, and Hall/Seguin this draft.
Boston probably values Hemsky as high or higher than Seguin considering their current ability to compete for a cup.
I like Sharp as much as the next guy but I think the Hawks love the pivot depth and they'll thin the wings when it comes to payroll.
ReplyDeleteVersteeg is the first guy out the door, IMO.
The Hawks are fucked cap wise for next season.
ReplyDeleteAs per NHLNUMBERS
57.56 committed next season
Madden is UFA - they can replace him or re sign him fairly cheaply
Ladd is RFA - he had a playoffs that will result in interest around the league
Eager is RFA - no one is going to break the bank for Eager
Hjalmarsson is RFA - he played well in the playoffs and will be looking to get paid
Seabrook is a RFA next season and any decisions they do make this summer will have to be with an eye towards Seabrook next summer.
Are they going to dump Sharp to us because they need to lose salary? Obviously not but there is probably a deal out there.
Huet makes 5.6 mill and Khabi is at 3.75. Would Chicago take back Khabi to gain themselves almost 2 mill a year that they will desperately need? Could that be the starting point to getting a player like Sharp from them? A guy like Cogliano has talent and speed and he won't break the bank this summer as a RFA. Who really knows what could happen if Tambo is creative enough.
Hall's hardware:
ReplyDelete2007-2008
CHL All-Rookie Team
CHL Rookie of the Year
OHL Best Plus/Minus
OHL First All-Rookie Team
OHL Most Goals by Rookie
OHL Rookie of the Year
U17 WHC Gold Medal
U18 WJC Gold Medal
2008-2009
CHL Memorial Cup All-Star Team
CHL Memorial Cup Champion
CHL Memorial Cup Most Valuable Player
OHL Champion
OHL First All-Star Team
OHL Playoffs Most Goals
OHL Playoffs Most Points
OHL Playoffs MVP "Wayne Gretzky 99 Award"
2009-2010
CHL Memorial Cup All-Star Team
CHL Memorial Cup Champion
CHL Memorial Cup Most Points
CHL Memorial Cup Most Valuable Player "Stafford Smythe Trophy"
OHL All-Star Game
OHL Champion
OHL First All-Star Team
OHL Most Assists
OHL Most Points "Eddie Powers Trophy"
OHL Playoffs Most Points
U20 WJC Silver Medal
I'm fine with either pick but has there ever been a player that won this much hardware at his age and didn't end up a star? Its going to take more balls passing up on Hall than trading Ryan Smyth on Messier retirement night.
Interesting 61% of Bruins fans on HF want Seguin.
When Jonathan Toews won the Conn Smythe, he was awarded a $1.3M bonus, which put CHI 1.3M over the cap for this season.
ReplyDeleteTheir cap number next season will be reduced by $1.3M as a result.
I dont think they care too much right now though.
Dennis:
ReplyDeleteThat would be my bet as well. Sharp is, I think, the last of the expendable guys I would move if I were Stan Bowman. In order, I'd probably move Versteeg, Bolland, Bfyuglien, Sharp. Assuming, of course, that the more dramatic options such as moving Campbell are out.
The Blackhawks can stash Huet in Rockford if they need to.
ReplyDeleteI don't see Scotty Bowman's kid giving away players top get under the cap.
I agree Dennis,.. why would the hawks clear out sharp (he has been dynamite for a while, speed, great shot accuracy, pk's, performed very well in the playoffs).. plus, like you alluded to, he is a great fit as a 2c behind toews.. that said, chances of poaching peripheral players would be greatly enhanced by taking on their #5 D-man or a goalie swap as mentioned...
ReplyDeleteDanny, to the best of my knowledge, all bonus's are included on a players cap hit in case they do hit it.. that is why some of the youngns have their 3.8M entry level but dont necessarily see all that dough...
ReplyDeleteThey'll stow Huet in the minors and then they have to move another guy.
ReplyDeleteThat Campbell contract is a killer. The cap hit and salary are the same so you can't even sell it as frontloaded. Bastard.
It will be Versteeg or Byfuglien who goes, probably the former. They have Brouwer who can step into the top nine. He pretty well had that role in the regular season. And they have some nice kids on the way as well.
I would say Sharp and Bolland are untouchable this summer. They play special teams, they produce, they do a lot of little things. Two pretty good pivots and with Madden likely gone they don't want to halve that depth.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletethis'll be fun....how about Souray and?....to chicago for Brian Campbell?
ReplyDeleteBest outcome I can think of is Tambellini and Lowe walking up to the podium for the first pick.
ReplyDeleteAnd announcing a trade with Boston for the #2 spot.
And then drafting BOTH of them.
Couldn't agree more and I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be viewed as a highly likely possibility.
Whether it takes sending them Penner or Hemsky, with Souray or Cogliano as a throw-in if we had to, this deal can be done if Boston sees their window of opportunity as now. Hemsky is a very Cap Friendly pickup for them. We're also one of the few teams too that would consider taking Thomas off their hands if we can dump Souray in turn.
So, Penner, Souray & Cogliano for Boston's 2nd overall and Tim Thomas?
Like the line combos that creates in a couple years time:
MPS / Gagner / Hemsky
Hall / Seguin / Eberle
Lee: Do you actually believe that Souray sweetens any deal?
ReplyDeleteDennis has it right. Sharp isn't going anywhere. Versteeg will be first on the chopping lock and after that, wingers.
ReplyDeleteWhich is a reminder that given two fairly equal players, a winger and a centre, you take the centre.
Speeds: /At the combine, Seguin weighed in at 182 lb (and 7.0% body fat) while Hall weighed in at 185 lb(and 7.4% body fat)/
ReplyDeleteSorry, I think my choice of words didn't make my point very clear. They currently have similar height and weight, but looking at them, Hall is larger. He's broader in the shoulders and pelvis. He's got bigger bones. Bigger bones need bigger muscles for leverage, so I think he is going to be the heavier of the two by at least 15 lbs. Subjective, I know, but then again a lot of the stuff beyond the math/statistics is subjective. For example, I have seen arguments for/against one boy over the other based on playing style which may render them injury prone. That's far more subjective than eyeballing the size of their bodies in my opinion.
I didn't mean to say that one is going to end up fatter than the other or more deconditioned. I think it is hard to be overweight playing 82 NHL games a season.
Lee: Do you actually believe that Souray sweetens any deal?
ReplyDeleteOddly enough, yes. I think used effectively as a PP specialist and a 2nd pairing guy (he can not be pitted against the other team's top line either at even strength or shorthanded), he offers value to a team looking for offense from the point. Partner him with a shutdown d-man who can make up for his out of position lapses and he can play that role.
In all honestly, I think Souray could've been an effective player for the Oil if the coaches had used him more wisely and especially if they stopping him from fighting. Stupid player? Yes, but talented nonetheless.
In fairness, I should point out that Hall played half this season at centre, according to his own statement in Brownlee's column today.
ReplyDelete@Traktor
ReplyDelete2002
Drafted 1st overall WHL Bantam draft
2003-2004
WHL Rookie of the Year
CHL All-Rookie Team
WJ U17 Silver Medal
2004-2005
WHL Scholastic Player of the Year
WHL First Team West All-Star
CHL Scholastic Player of the Year
CHL Second Team All-Star
CHL Top Prospects Game MVP
WJ U18 Gold Medal
2005-2006
WHL Second Team West All-Star
WHL Playoffs MVP
WHL Top Scorer Playoffs
CHL Memorial Cup All-Star
CHL Memorial Cup leading scorer
Similar style as Hall in Junior.
This guy was ranked 2nd and 3rd in his draft year. Behind Crosby.
I'm referring to Gilbert Brule.
It's a thin line sometimes. Development is crucial, as crucial as making your game complete when you hit the NHL.
Looks to me that Seguin is the safer pick. Hall's effectiveness depends on him playing the style he developed in the OHL and the game is so much bigger and faster in the NHL, as Brule found out.
If not Souray, why not Hemsky & Penner to the B's for both of their first rounders?
ReplyDeleteAs you can probably tell, I don't buy this argument that our youth movements needs existing stars to mentor them. I'd rather the 'cluster' rounds into form at roughly the same time.
Stan Weir, Brett Calligen, Lee Fogolin, Colin Campbell, Dave Dryden. None of these guys were stars per se but they seemed to do a pretty good job showing the young players how to act and play like true professionals.
Stan Weir, Brett Calligen, Lee Fogolin, Colin Campbell, Dave Dryden.
ReplyDeleteIf we unload Penner and Hemsky, what veterans do we have of the calibre of the guys you mention above? Horcoff, maybe. I can't think of any others.
Danny, to the best of my knowledge, all bonus's are included on a players cap hit in case they do hit it.. that is why some of the youngns have their 3.8M entry level but dont necessarily see all that dough...
ReplyDeleteDanny's right - the rule is that although all bonuses "count" towards the cap hit, you can exceed the cap by up to 10% if it's because of the bonuses.
The consequence of doing so is that if the player actually achieves the bonus and puts you over the cap for real, you get docked that much space in the following season.
Rejoice with me friends!
ReplyDeleteA bunch of us decrepit, but cunning and ruthless, teachers beat the upstart group of grade 9 boys in the annual floor hockey game! 7-3. And no aneurysms or heart attacks.
I was the handsome pylon watching the young bucks streak by me.
Traktor:
ReplyDeleteIf they do pass on Hall, let's just hope that Lowe gets MacT to read his statement for him at the presser.
If we unload Penner and Hemsky, what veterans do we have of the calibre of the guys you mention above? Horcoff, maybe. I can't think of any others.
ReplyDeleteGiven that we haven't won a Cup in 20 years, we will have to airlift in the odd vet with Cup experience. I think that would be a wise investment on the free agent side, particularly a savvy d-man.
Thanks for the clarification Schitzo,
ReplyDeleteRoaddog61, there are some 2nd team all-star selections on that list that I never saw on Hall's... I dont agree that they are as comparable as you insist...
People need to be certain in uncertain times.
ReplyDeleteIt's just human nature.
To be in a constant state of uncertainty would be counteractive to progress so when there are issues to be resolved there is always a status quo opinion to accept.
It's not wrong. It's not right.
It just is.
Flat earth. Y2K. "Heavier" objects falling faster than "lighter" objects. All sorts of examples of things we were so sure of in the past.
In this case, the status quo is Taylor Hall.
The underdog is Tyler Seguin.
We've seen them good; we've seen them bad.
Both are great players.
And I'll honestly be happy with either unless one proves to be a flop.
I'm with you on this one LT, I can't bring myself to choose one or the other.
@Mr DeBakey
"With the 1st overall pick in the 2010 NHL Entry Draft, the Edmonton Oilers choose... MARK PYSYK"
... and the angry mob floods Whyte Avenue ...
Chicago actually seems to be a bit of an exception to the idea that you need great depth down the centre. Sure, they've got Toews, but after that? Sharp and Kane are both wingers. Bolland and Madden? Seems like a standard 1C, 2C, 3C depth chart to me.
ReplyDeleteHall has an established level of play which is excellent and aside from the issue of injuries he has fewer questions marks than does Seguin.
I'd argue that in this instance the conventional view is actually the correct one. The Oilers should pick Hall unless Boston is willing to throw in a pick that is 32nd overall or greater this year.
DBO re: Sharp from Chi-hawks
ReplyDeleteAbsolutly love that scenerio
Which is a reminder that given two fairly equal players, a winger and a centre, you take the centre.
ReplyDeleteWhy?
I've seen no evidence that centres are more valuable than wingers. Nothing from the mechanics of the game itself suggest centres are more valuable than wingers, the opposite in fact.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/blackhawks-exceed-salary-cap-by-millions/article1601162/
ReplyDelete"the Club's Upper Limit for the next League Year shall be reduced by an amount equal to such excess."
Chicago’s cap "penalty" will mean a ceiling of closer to $54.5-million.
And the Blackhawks already have $57.6-million in salary commitments with only 14 players signed for next season.
Souray for Campbell and a 1st?
ReplyDeleteBen: If they can't find a better deal than that i'l shoot myself in the foot. (With a gun)
ReplyDeleteIt looks like the Hawks might have to give a pick or a prospect to another team in exchange for taking Huet or Campbell off their hands. Yikes.
ReplyDeleteR O said...
ReplyDeleteWhich is a reminder that given two fairly equal players, a winger and a centre, you take the centre.
Why?
I've seen no evidence that centres are more valuable than wingers. Nothing from the mechanics of the game itself suggest centres are more valuable than wingers, the opposite in fact.
R O...
Well LT had a blog entry awhile back showing that SC winning teams relied more on drafted Cs than drafted Ws. I believe it also showed that highly drafted Ws rarely went on to win the Cup. We could probably look at Conn Smythe winners too.
And then there's the age-old adage, "winning teams are strong through the middle".
And then there's CHI and PIT and DET and CAR and COL having success with 3 top notch centres.
And then there's CBJ and CGY struggling with world class wingers but no centre.
And then there's the fact that your entire last paragraph is an unsupported BS statement. (Since the mechanics of the game lead to centres taking the most face-offs, covering the most ice, having the best angles at the net, having the most defensive responsibility, and generally being involved in the most passes (among Fs)).
But I got nothing else off the top of my head.
To make matters worse for Chicago, Toews bonus for winning Con Smyth counts again's next years cap as they are already at the max for this year.
ReplyDeleteIf this is old news, my apologies.
And then there's the age-old adage, "winning teams are strong through the middle".
ReplyDeleteAnd then there's CHI and PIT and DET and CAR and COL having success with 3 top notch centres.
And then there's CBJ and CGY struggling with world class wingers but no centre.
CHI has a world-class winger in Hossa and a bunch of ohter very good players at that point. Carolina won a Cup but I'm shocked that this isn't the first place that fans woulnd't point out that they were damn lucky to do so - and the rest of the time they haven't achieved much success.
And what's this bullshit about evaluating team strength on Cups? There aren't only four strong teams in the league.
And then there's the fact that your entire last paragraph is an unsupported BS statement. (Since the mechanics of the game lead to centres taking the most face-offs, covering the most ice, having the best angles at the net, having the most defensive responsibility, and generally being involved in the most passes (among Fs)).
And then there's the fact that your entire last paragraph is an unsupported BS statement. (Since the mechanics of the game lead to centres taking the most face-offs, covering the most ice, having the best angles at the net, having the most defensive responsibility, and generally being involved in the most passes (among Fs)).
Faceoffs: the material advantage isn't great. At evens I estimated it to be about +3 GD if your entire team is a 60% team (relative to a 50% team). So if you're taking 1/3 of your team's faceoffs that works out to +1 GD.
I haven't looked at special teams but it's probably the same order of magnitude. It's not nothing but it's not a lot either, and this assumes a baseline faceoff level that is a lot more than most centres repeat year to year.
On covering the whole ice: Not when it comes to the actual important parts of the ice, i.e. the scoring areas and areas where plays into the scoring zone are made. Generally wingers are more involved of the offensive zone scoring area, and centres the defensive zone scoring area.
That's a huge generalization of course, for instance Crosby's game down low in the offensive zone and along the boards is second to none. But we started in generalizations.
Defensive zone responsibility: Sure. Don't see how that's more valuable that offensive zone responsibility. In fact given the wider talent dispari1ty in player's offensive abilities one should probably have a predisposition to wingers.
Just played around with Capgeek.com. Man is Chicago screwed. They need to shed at least $10 million in salary. They could stash Huet in the minors, but even with that they'll need to shed a lot of salary and replace the traded players with cheap players. i still think we can get Sharp, or at least Ladd. Sharp will take a cheaper, young NHL player and good prospect/pick. Ladd may only take a pick as he's due a solid raise for a 2nd/3rd liner and they have cheaper options already with the team. I still think my original idea could work.
ReplyDeleteDBO - they aren't moving Sharp, not just yet.
ReplyDeleteThey have to give Seabrook a raise next summer and then the summer after that Sharp and Byfuglien are UFA I believe.
So that's the window.
Madden is gone so that leaves them Towes/Sharp/Bolland/Fraser up the middle.
If they move Sharp they're suddenly shallow at centre and remember that Bolland just had back surgery.
They're moving a winger. How many goals did Brouwer score this year? Over twenty, right? So he replaces Versteeg in the top nine (he played top nine most of the season anyhow).
They may have to let Ladd go too but the guy who might get cut is Sopel. At 2.5 that's a decent ticket - you still have a nice top four and if you need to then you bring in a cheap vet at the deadline.
Unless they can find someone dumb enough to take Campbell that's the way they'll roll. And if they can find someone to take Campbell then the rest of the league may as well pack it in for the next few years because then they'll be set for the shortterm anyhow.
I think they can move Campbell. Seriously. He is extremely overpaid and not at all elite, but he does fill a role and there are teams that need exactly that thing.
ReplyDeleteHawks will have to take back money (a lesser salary) and overpay with a pick or prospect, but I can see Campbell being dealt.
If they face losing more than one RFA, a single RFA could end up being a sweetener when they move a big salary.
ReplyDeleteNo contract is unmoveable....
ReplyDeleteFunny enough, that was the penultimate cover of the original Electronic Gaming Monthly -- the magazine was shut down and most of its employees terminated a few weeks later when 1UP/EGM and it associated properties were sold by Ziff-Davis to Hearst.
ReplyDeleteI may be the only person here who cares about that particular double-meaning, but I thought I'd point it out.
Let's hope following the Chicago model doesn't mean forgetting how to make qualifying offers.
ReplyDeleteDon't worry Mike, Olczyk has it all figured out.
ReplyDelete..Ah crap.
Given that we haven't won a Cup in 20 years, we will have to airlift in the odd vet with Cup experience. I think that would be a wise investment on the free agent side, particularly a savvy d-man.
ReplyDeleteYou'll excuse me if I've learned my lesson about trading away key players on the promise of later bringing in unspecified replacements.
You'll excuse me if I've learned my lesson about trading away key players on the promise of later bringing in unspecified replacements.
ReplyDeletePlus, how many veterans with Cup [Finals] experience did Chicago have? Madden, Ladd, Hossa, and...?
Look through recent history, and it seems obvious to me that having good hockey players is a hell of a lot more important than having veterans with Stanley Cup experience.
All this talk about wingers vs. centers and I thought. "Thank God Hall can play center."
ReplyDeleteoh and Tambillini is going to take Steve Kelly again just to troll Oilfans into oblivion.
ReplyDeleteS.B. - lol, does Bonsignore still play when he's not running his go-kart track?
ReplyDeleteAnd Doogie has nailed it - good players. Amass good players. The Oilers in 2006 had a ton of them. Then they started moving them without replacing them.
Campbell is a good player but he's the fourth best defenceman on the Hawks. If Jonsson had been helathy then probably fifth. They could afford to have guys like Brouwer on the fourth line and useful role players like Fraser never even got a start.
That's a lot of depth.
Ribs & LT - yeah you're right, anyone can be moved, I guess we saw that with the Gomez move last summer. Throw in a kid or a couple of picks and take back a little junk and they might be able to pull it off.
@Black Dog: At one point this summer, I was going to go through all the playoff teams of the last five years, see how many players they had with Cups or pennants, and see if there were any significant trends related to playoff winning percentage and so forth. Then Chicago won the Stanley Cup and proved the point for the second year in a row and, by a rough guess, fifth out of the last six.
ReplyDeleteFun 2007 Bonsignore quote...
ReplyDelete"I know in my heart I'm not a bust."
Sign him¡!
Off topic: new candidate for 'worst captain in the NHL' come this fall? Possibly.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I've been lead to believe, the player in question and his swelled head were a major cause of a rift in the Flames dressing room prior to his being traded. So it's no surprise that the smartest man in hockey, Brian Burke, would bestow the leadership role on this individual, now is it?
Just wanted to point out an observation based on this ON post..
ReplyDeletehttp://oilersnation.com/2010/6/10/around-the-league-playoff-edition-wk-7
Look at the Hawks that were developed in the org.. Outside of Kane/Toews, almost all of them played 3-5 years outside the NHL before breaking in.. recall, it was a pretty crummy team for a few years but on the surface it looks like those development years came through in spades (or rather, Depth)
I think that Jon K's underselling Bolland quite a bit because that guy had a great year last year and then got hurt early this season but came back and played his role and chipped in with offense to boot,
ReplyDeleteI imagine that a guy like Bickell becomes a regular and Skille finally sticks and that plugs a couple of holes that will be left by the purge.
Or perhaps the hawks stash both Huet and Sopel and then things get easier for the 23 man roster.
Campbell's value's been proven to the Hawks fanbase. When he was hurt, they really suffered at the point.
ReplyDeleteYet that $7.1 cap hit is brutal. I'd say 50-50 he's dealt, and not for a big salary such as Souray, since that's little help to them.
I don't think the Hawks are completely messed up, as on capgeek:
They can let all UFAs go except for maybe Burish, Bois and Cullimore.
High end RFA's (Ladd, Eager) can all be dealt, but Niemi's due a huge payday.
Huet's 5.6 - deal (doubtful) or stash in Rockford
Sopel (2.3) also deal, he was rumored on the way out many times last year.
So the big question is how many of the $3M guys need to go to get them under the cap, with or without Campbell on the team:
Sharp, 3.9; Bolland 3.3; Versteeg 3.1; Byfuglien 3.
I'd say Versteeg's the choice, but it would be hard to choose between Sharp, Bolland and Byfuglien if they need to deal another.
Most winning teams rely on top end talent, the trickle down effect then makes the pluggers look like overachievers(see Oiler's washed up player-turned outstanding checking centerman MacTavish as a perfect example of this).
ReplyDeleteIn two weeks Oilers appear to have one of these two or three top flight talents neccessary, and a few great prospects(Eberle, MPS, Gagner, Brule) that we all hope can develop into at least one of these top end talents themselves. I still refer to Brule and Gagner as prospects - hoping that one of them pans out to be a SC Finals gamebreaker.
There is no way Boston trades the #2 overall pick unless the deal involves Edmonton's #1.
ReplyDelete