In the pre-cap era, the Oilers would employ three established NHL defensemen, one or two projects/discards and a couple of up and coming prospects. During that time, the club routinely had 5 hands with legit NHL experience. Coming out of the lockout, the team still had a fine group of veterans, and added Chris Pronger to the group that wonderful summer.
Listing the D roster with their NHL games played during that era gives us some insight into the experience on the roster:
- 05-06GP: 3333. This was the Stanley team, led by Pronger (722) but also featuring Jason Smith (710), Igor Ulanov (702), Cory Cross (603), Steve Staios (537) and MA Bergeron (59).
- 06-07GP: 1844. Jason Smith (786), Steve Staios (619), Daniel Tjarnqvist (278), MA Bergeron (134), Matt Greene (27) and Ladislav Smid (0) made up a group that included some nice help in the PB but Hejda was unable to find the lineup early in the year.
- 07-08GP: 1764. This was the nadir for Oilers experience and depth on defense. Steve Staios (677,) Sheldon Souray (506), Dick Tarnstrom (258), Joni Pitkanen (206), Matt Greene (105) and Tom Gilbert (12).
Since the stampede of defensemen heading out of town in 2006 summer (Oilers dealt Pronger, lost Tarnstrom and Spacek), Edmonton hasn't really had a full deck 1-6 on the backline.
As we enter the summer of 2010, things do not look terribly promising. Defensemen take longer than forwards to develop, and they tend to be a poorer bet (injury is a huge factor) so the group bubbling under currently will likely be halved or more because of wear and tear, stalling as prospects or not being able to keep up with the speed of the NHL game.
Left Defense: Ryan Whitney had a very strong run after coming over at the deadline. He's huge, has more grit than we were lead to believe and moves the puck efficiently and is a very good skater. Sheldon Souray has a mean streak, a shot from the point that is breathtaking and is very physical. He asked for a trade and may get one, but it is vital the club gets a solid defender in return. There are rumors that Eric Brewer might be in the mix, a quick glance suggests he's still playing well but injuries are a concern. Theo Peckham has impressive size and is also physical; an eager fighter, he had a nice run at the end of the season. Very aggressive player, Tom Renney has mentioned him as a player he's looking forward to seeing in training camp. Peckham would probably be exposed as a regular this NHL season, but looks like an interesting option for the 6-7D (depending on who they sign for the third pairing).
Right Defense: Tom Gilbert is a fine defenseman with a wide range of skills. He's a smart positional player, moves the puck efficiently and has outstanding instincts in the offensive zone. An underrated player. Ladislav Smid is a big, mobile defender who has reached the point (253 NHL games) where the team should be able count on him in important situations. He has (to this point) been paired with a veteran defender and one hopes the Oilers have an experienced partner for the second pairing by the fall. Taylor Chorney is a fine skater and when paired with a quality veteran the games slows enough for him to flash significant offensive creativity. He has major holes defensively and he is not close to being strong enough to compete against NHL wingers. Renney might prefer sending him to Okla City for the season. Alex Plante is huge, is capable of intimidating the opposition and showed very well in a late season stint. Skating is an issue and he looks a little clumsy, but this young man can play. Unlikely to have a major impact this season but could get an extended look when injuries hit. Jeff Petry is another college defender, but he's bigger and stronger than the other members of that group. He also has very good offensive potential, although that will take time to show up at the major league level.
Projected Depth Chart (Current GP: 1594)
- Whitney (354)-Gilbert (258)
- Souray(650)-Smid (253)
- Peckham (31)-Chorney (44)
- Plante (4)
- Needs on D: The Oilers need at least 3 actual NHL defensemen (including the Souray replacement). A veteran for the 2nd pairing, and then two veterans to push Smid and allow the team to send two of Peckham-Chorney-Plante to the minors.
Even more than the forward position, we'll get a really good idea about how serious Tambellini is about the '10-11 season (and contending) when the defensive signing and trades come across the wire. I think it is a mistake to look for "name" players and am hopeful the team finds more players like Jan Hejda and fewer men like Jason Strudwick.
The Oilers have $40.1M dedicated to 14 roster players after the buyout. I don't think they're going to spend to $50M for '10-11, meaning we should look for mid-level signings and trades for depth players. The Oilers used to be very wise in this area (Staios, Bergeron, Hejda, others) and one of the keys to this rebuild will be value contracts devoted to quality defensemen.
There is no Duncan Keith bubbling under.
Make a push for Volchenkov. Worth every penny.
ReplyDeleteGregor has a solid post at ON on FA's to target:
ReplyDeletehttp://oilersnation.com/2010/6/30/free-agent-frenzy-rebuilding-the-team
Personally I am liking Derek Morris more and more. He was born here (not that that mattters), is physical, a solid guy in the room, still a vet but not too old and can play the PP. I wonder if a 2 or 3 year deal at around $2.5 mill would make sense for him. Solidifies our top 4 for the next few years, and allows the kids (Peckham and Petry) to take their time developing. Add someone from the Souray trade (Brewer) and our defense becomes a solid, if unspectacular, group that can at least hold their head above water. then add a banger (maybe Boynton?) to fill out the back end and I like that defense.
Look for a guy like Sutton who might fall through the cracks of the UFA market. Offer him a one year with bigger dollars.
ReplyDeleteThe team has cap space this year and such a signing won't hinder the team going forward.
Stauffer brought up Exelby yesterday, but Brownlee suggested he was done. John Scott seems to be a favorite, too.
ReplyDeleteAs long as they can play defense, I don't care what their name is.
I don't see any reason to expect this team to not dress at least 1 full-time rookie defenseman. My money is on Peckham, but the brass seems to like Chorney a fair bit too.
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm ok with that, as long as we keep them to the 3rd pair and match them with a reliable vet who can mentor and help them out.
If we can bring in someone like a Toni Lydman on a 2 year deal, I think that would be a great start.
smarmy boss: was thinking about that strategy. I like the idea of a multi year deal on a solid guy, but a bunch of one year "slight overpays" allows us to deal a bunch of guys at the deadline and stock up on draft picks. Dominic Moore has been dealt 2 years in a row for a 2nd rd pick. Sutton went for a 2nd (I think). Unless you are acquiring a guy like Andrew Ladd (who I think is the exact player we need for our 3rd line, who can play PK, hit and can sometimes move up and play bigger minutes), one year deals may make the most sense. Win Win scenario really. like Phoenix last year: if they suck they have a lot of gyus they can deal. if we surprise and make the playoffs then great, the kids get experience on a winning team and the rebuild gets sped up, and not to mention adding some vets allows us to keep kids like MPS and Eberle in the minors to start the season and learn the pro game with little pressure.
ReplyDeleteSutton may want to play for a contender, but i would like to see himhere.
ReplyDeletei think there are many good veteran d-men who can help the Oilers that are better than a guy like Strudwick.
ReplyDeleteTo be clear, I was suggesting Lydman for the 2nd pair with Smid, not as a 3rd pairing mentor (though he'd definitely be welcome in that role if we managed to do the impossible and land both he and someone like Michalek).
ReplyDeleteTo continue with my point above about one year deals.
ReplyDeleteYou trade for Brewer (one year left) - prob worth a 2nd at the deadline.
- Sign Dominic Moore for 1 year $2 mill - proven he's worth a 2nd.
- Sign Sutton for 1 year $2.5 mill - worth a 2nd
or
- Sign Boynton for 1 year $1.5 mill - Prob worth a 3rd.
- Sign Comrie for 1 year $1.5 mill - if he's healthy he's worth a 2nd or 3rd at deadline.
That's a bunch of picks in the 2nd and 3rd next year, giving us lots of ammo heading into the draft after next season, not to mention the ability to trade for good players on big contracts to complement the kids. if the kids step up this year and 2011-12 looks like we have a solid chance to compete, then you can move those 2nd rd picks for good talent.
The only problem I see with the 1 year UFA strategy is that you'll probably have to wait until late in free agency, and a little bit of luck is needed as well. Most guys who sign on for one year are either guys who haven't had much interest from other teams (Lang, Tanguay, Moore) or are looking for a shot at a cup with a contender (Malhotra, Hossa, Madden).
ReplyDeleteA team like Edmonton might have a hard time getting players to agree to one-year deals until later in free agency, but you're also gambling that they'll be good enough to warrant any kind of return at the deadline. You could end up with a guy like Moore who'll get you a 2nd on deadline day, or a Taguay who nobody wants.
I think one of my targets for free agent D might be Dennis Grebeshkov if we could get him for 2 million or less.
ReplyDeleteTurnovers were a huge problem for us last year, and Grebeshkov had to be the worst offender in that regard. He's only ok on the powerplay, and he can't kill penalties worth a damn. He had his moments, but I hope we don't bring him back. Especially since we don't have Visnovsky here to pump him up anymore.
ReplyDeletePlease for the love of everything not Eric Brewer...I'll never be able to alter his image from the guy who scored an OT winner against DET and couldn't even be bothered to smile. The guy doesn't give a damn on the ice.
ReplyDeleteSign Grebeshkov back, grab Jurcina, and make a deal for 1. Aaron Johnson was decent too.
Whitney-Gilbert
*****-Smid
Jurcina-Grebeshkov
Johnson/Peckham
Nothing wrong with that so long as #3/4 is decent.
You get the one year deals by over paying. At least that's the theory.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying they don't try to sign guys early but Edmonton won't be a preferred destination this offseason.
LT -- quick question. Is the salary for cap considerations based on the 23-man roster or the 20 that actually play each game?
ReplyDeleteThey need to add a least one "better than depth" defenceman. I would push hard in a trade for Marc Staal, he could be available.
ReplyDeleteThe big names like Martin, Hamius or Volchenkov are likely too expensive and wont come here. They may have to target a team with budget issues. I doubt Chicago lets Hjalmarson go. Anyone else?
Grebeshkov may actually be one of the better options if he returns for under 3.
23. That's the max anyway, you can carry anywhere between 16 (I think) and 23. It's pretty rare that a team will have less than 22, but it happens.
ReplyDeleteAll players on your active roster count against the cap.
Journalists need to make a living...but that doesn't mean Staal is available.
ReplyDeleteAside from getting hit by a bus or something, I don't see any circumstance where he's not a Ranger next year.
misfit -- if that's the case, I think the Oil will have a hell of a time getting under $50M including the buyouts. The impending Souray trade is the final major factor, along with who they overpay (or not) tomorrow. They would be smart to leave a healthy amount of capspace until we need it to start building a contender in a few years. But I'm not sure they'll see it the same way...
ReplyDeleteThe UFA pool for Dmen is such a hodge-podge this year and the market is always unpredictable in terms of what teams target who it's hard to know who to who the options are for a 30th place team.
ReplyDeleteIf we can get a legitimate top 4 guy on 2-3 yr deal I really don't care what we pay. a legitimate top 4 plus 2 more would be ideal (even if Johnson is one of the 2)
McKenzie repeats the Souray for Brewer rumours on Twitter: "Souray is a $5.4M cap hit who will make $4.5M in each of next two seasons. Brewer is $4.25M cap hit with salary of $4.5M for coming season."
ReplyDeleteI made the point on the other thread that only one of Omark, Eberle and MPS should make the team out of camp because the guy who makes it knows that he has to work his ass off every shift of every game because there are two guys ready willing and able to take his place and the two guys in OKC know that they have to play hard every night to be guy that gets the next call.
ReplyDeleteI think the same is true on D. There should be no more the one rookie on the roster - probably Peckham, with Chorney, Plante and Motin down in OKC. If Peckham falters, then send him back down.
Part of the culture change the Oilers need has to be making rookies earn their call up and fight to keep their place.
I don't see why the team would have a payroll restriction this year. You'd think management would be free to put whatever is the best team for the strategy on the ice and that the issue would be to avoid long-term cap-hell rather than a number for this year.
ReplyDeleteI think Smid is the big question mark for this year. If he can stay healthy, and if his good play wasn't solely a result of having Lubo as a partner, then he's poised to be a really big part of the top 4.
ReplyDeleteI also can't believe how many people would be ok with getting Grebs back! Sure he has offensive talent. But on a team that has seen guys like MA Bergeron and Cory Cross, Grebeshkov is by far the worst turnover artist the Oilers have employed in the past 10 years.
No thanks. Give me Foster or some such who stays at home and makes a smart play and throws a bodycheck once in a while for a reasonable cap hit please.
"I made the point on the other thread that only one of Omark, Eberle and MPS should make the team out of camp because the guy who makes it knows that he has to work his ass off every shift of every game because there are two guys ready willing and able to take his place and the two guys in OKC know that they have to play hard every night to be guy that gets the next call."
ReplyDeleteIf they're the best players we have, this makes no sense.
There really isn't some magic formula. The best players should play. We'll see whether that's Svensson/Eberle/Omark or someone else.
"No thanks. Give me Foster or some such who stays at home and makes a smart play and throws a bodycheck once in a while for a reasonable cap hit please."
ReplyDeleteDumping the puck up the boards to the other team is also a turnover...people just don't seem to notice.
Regardless of Brewer's play, you make that deal with St. Louis to get out from under Souray's deal.
ReplyDeleteEveryone here seems to be on the same page, sign value guys for one deal and deal them off at the deadline.
There are more Dmen than jobs, so while you won't have the pick of the litter, you will still find a few guys.
The only time you offer anything longer than 1 year is if you can get "your guy" (i.e. Ladd up front)
I don't see any of "those guys" being available, and when you are 2-3 years from threatening a playoff spot, this isn't the year to sign that guy anyhow.
I like the idea of going into the season with 8-10M in cap room.
Some GM, somewhere (probably Holgren) will tie his own hands and be forced to offer a great deal to take some cap off his hands.
You do that and either get the guy you want, or take a cap problem off his hand and his 1st rounder.
Use your cap space as predatory as possible and be absolutely ruthless.
If no deals like that come up, then no problem. Don't make a deal just because you can. (ie. Get Vish away from the checkbook)
Dumping the puck up the boards to the other team is also a turnover...people just don't seem to notice.
ReplyDeleteWho said anything about dumping the puck up the boards?
LMHF - I could not disagree more. You do not play kids where they can't succeed. See Gilbert Brule in Columbus.
ReplyDeleteIts not a magic formula. They are our best players today only because we finished cleaning house yesterday (hopefully that act will complete today).
We better be bringing in more help.
Bobby Mac confirming Souray for Brewer rumors, and Strickland says that D.J. King is also part of the potential deal, but says Brewer has not been asked to waive his NTC.
ReplyDeleteThat would be a nice deal if Tamby pulls that. Out from the extra year of the Souray deal and get a tough guy who can play a bit to ride shotgun with the kids.
For the sake of argument, is this a playoff team?
ReplyDelete2010-11 Edmonton Oilers
PLAYER BONUS CAP HIT
FORWARDS
Shawn Horcoff — $5,500,000
Dustin Penner — $4,250,000
Ales Hemsky — $4,100,000
* Hall — $3,750,000
* Gilbert Brule — $2,000,000
* Sam Gagner — $2,000,000
Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson ($625,000) $1,525,000
* Andrew Cogliano — $1,300,000
* Mike Comrie — $1,250,000
Jordan Eberle ($312,500) $1,158,333
* Fernando Pisani — $1,000,000
Ryan Jones — $975,000
* Colin Fraser — $800,000
Zack Stortini — $700,000
DEFENSEMEN
Sheldon Souray — $5,400,000
* Hamhuis — $5,000,000
Ryan Whitney — $4,000,000
Tom Gilbert — $4,000,000
* Hjalmarsson — $3,100,000
Ladislav Smid — $1,300,000
* Theo Peckham — $700,000
GOALTENDERS
Nikolai Khabibulin — $3,750,000
* Devan Dubnyk — $700,000
BUYOUTS
Patrick O'Sullivan — $935,417
Ethan Moreau — $833,333
Robert Nilsson — $-83,333
LOST VIA REENTRY WAIVERS
NONE
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER SIZE 23
SALARY CAP $59,400,000
PAYROLL $59,943,750
BONUSES $937,500
CAP SPACE $393,750
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete"LMHF - I could not disagree more. You do not play kids where they can't succeed. See Gilbert Brule in Columbus.
ReplyDeleteIts not a magic formula. They are our best players today only because we finished cleaning house yesterday (hopefully that act will complete today).
We better be bringing in more help."
In which case, the young guys might not be our best players and wouldn't play.
What's the problem?
AUTO-GENERATED CAPGEEK.COM LINES
ReplyDeleteFORWARDS
Shawn Horcoff ($5.500m) / Dustin Penner ($4.250m) / Ales Hemsky ($4.100m)
* Hall ($3.750m) / * Gilbert Brule ($2.000m) / * Sam Gagner ($2.000m)
Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson ($1.525m) / * Andrew Cogliano ($1.300m) / * Mike Comrie ($1.250m)
Jordan Eberle ($1.158m) / * Fernando Pisani ($1.000m) / Ryan Jones ($0.975m)
* Colin Fraser ($0.800m) / Zack Stortini ($0.700m)
DEFENSEMEN
Sheldon Souray ($5.400m) / * Hamhuis ($5.000m)
Ryan Whitney ($4.000m) / Tom Gilbert ($4.000m)
* Hjalmarsson ($3.100m) / Ladislav Smid ($1.300m)
* Theo Peckham ($0.700m)
GOALTENDERS
Nikolai Khabibulin ($3.750m) / * Devan Dubnyk ($0.700m)
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
(these totals are compiled using the bonus cushion)
ROSTER: 23; CAP: $59.4m; PAYROLL: $59.944m; CAP ROOM: $0.394m BONUSES: $0.938m
LMHF
ReplyDeleteThat's true but only if by best player you are considering play at both ends of the ice. A player who doesn't score much but doesn't give up much either is a better player, in terms of team success, than one who scores a lot but gives up even more than that. If this team is ever going to be a real contender then these young players HAVE to learn that.
I'm assuming that all three will be liabilities defensively, because rookies almost always are. If that's the case then I think that the most defensively responsible of the three should make the team while the other two practice their two way play in OKC.
But it more than one of them can make more of a net contribution to the team than Jones or Stortini or Cogs can, then I agree that they should be on the team.
Adam Larsson is projected by some to be a superstar for years to come. If all the planets align in the next draft...The Oilers need a guy like him (or Duncan Keith) if there is to be any hope of being a serious contender.
ReplyDeleteCan the team be entertaining and competitive and still end up in a lottery position? This would be a lofty goal to which to aspire.
(When Lebowski has the time and patience he will figure out how to be able to use his username again. This computer stuff is
dark magic.)
Lebowski - use the Name/url option for the time being - or forever if you like. Works for me.
ReplyDeleteLMHF - no problem. Just tired of seeing everyone plan for the kids to pull off miracles when we had to ax two of them just yesterday when they couldn't.
I think that Hamhuis could get $5M in a lot of different NHL towns, which means Edmonton would have to pay significantly more to get him than that.
ReplyDeleteWhich would then go against Management's statement that they are no longer chasing big fish on the UFA market.
That being said, he'd be a nice addition at $5M, but only if they get out from Souray, imho.
"misfit - why would the guys left at the end of free agency be in any position to demand 2-years?"
ReplyDeleteThey wouldn't. What I was saying is, the only guys who'll sign here on a 1 year deal are guys who haven't been able to sign on with anyone else late into free agency. You can get lucky sometimes like Phoenix and Florida did with Lang and Morre, but often there's a reason these guys haven't signed on by then.
misfit - There are no value signings in the early days of FA.
ReplyDeleteIn a more than a few cases the reason is that NHL GM's aren't very bright.
Let's sign a few of those guys.
Value is in everyone else's discards.
A veteran for the 2nd pairing, and then two veterans to push Smid and allow the team to send two of Peckham-Chorney-Plante to the minors.
ReplyDeleteWhitney - Gilbert
Brewer (for Shelly) - Smid
Foster (UFA) - Colaiacovo (UFA)
Peckham/Plante
I think that's a strong, strong D-corps right there. Lots of GP, lots of size, lots of grit. Both Foster and Colaiacovo can step up into the second pairing if Brew's injury bug shows up. Also, we can afford overpays on 1-2 year deals to snag interest from the two UFAs.
You guys need to forget Volchenkov, Hamhuis, Michalek et al-- They are primed to go to a competitive team, which we are not (not even with speeds' roster IMO).
For those who figured the Oilers picked the wrong brother, this is referring to the prospect camp...
ReplyDelete(Kellen)Jones also made mention that his twin brother Conner would accept an invitation unless a sore ankle prevented him from taking part.
I asked Kellen if he viewed his selection in Saturday's draft as a package deal with his brother, they've always played together every step of the way and both hope to continue that as pros, and he admitted that they both did. Edmonton has two for the price of one draft pick, if they eventually sign the twins. - Guy at Coming Down the Pipe
Foster while not horrible is not particularly strong defensively.
ReplyDeleteColaiacovo is a solid D-man but unlikely to remain healthy.
Even with those flags raised I like the idea of going after both on 1-2 years at a decent price. If they stay healthy that's a few 2nd-3rd round picks at the deadline. If they don't play well or get injured it's an improved draft position.
Let the Adam Larsson watch begin =).
What Woodguy said. One year deals, trades at the deadline and take advantage of other teams who have to clear space at the deadline to bring in a big ticket.
ReplyDeleteBut the biggest question has to be where the Oilers get their future #1 dman. They need to find the next Doughty, Lidstrom, Pronger, Keith to dominate 30 minutes a night in a few years.
These guys don't hit free agency much, and except for Pronger don't get traded.
I think Tambo has to find that next one and pull out all the stops to get him - even if that means trading Penner or Hemsky.
I don't think this team is going to suck enough to get Larssen.
Personally I'd like to see a Foster/Michalek/Morris type for the second pairing, but I suppose these guys might get overpaid in free agency. For the third pairing I'd sign Johnson, and add a guy like Morrisonn or Jurcina from Washington. Peckham would be our 7th.
ReplyDeletePut me down on the one year max contract bandwagon.
ReplyDeleteThe goal of any rebuilding club should not be climbing out of 8th as soon as possible - it should be accumulating and maximizing as many assets as possible.
If Tambellini plays his cards right he can develop his prospects at a "guaranteed return rate" pace and bring in 3 or 4 extra 2nd round picks at the deadline.
I think people underestimate the interest that some UFA's will show in Edmonton. We don't offer a chance at the Stanley but one thing we do have is opportunity. If you're a player that's always been a 5/6 guy on the depth chart you could sign for 1 year in Edmonton play a bigger role and probably get a nice raise in 2011.
Deano, thanks. I still get lost a block away from my house.
ReplyDeleteUni, The Lunge for Larsson?
I would be more than happy to see the Oilers lose 82 games at 6 to 5 scores.
The ‘Fall for Hall’ started with not replacing Khabi when he went down. If (and when) we start the year with three rookie D-men after getting zilch in the Souray trade: The ‘Arson for Larrson’?
ReplyDelete@Ribs
ReplyDeleteAfter some reading on the Joneses, I had a sneaking suspicion that the Oilers would try and bring both brothers into the fold with the one pick and Guy's article confirms it. Makes perfect sense in the 7th round, quite frankly. Regardless of how they pan out, turning one bullet into two is excellent work by the Magnificent Bastard.
@uni
My thoughts exactly. Although getting Larsson next year seems unlikely, it's still nice to dream.
LeBrun: "No buy-out for Ethan Moreau as the Jackets claim him off waivers before noon ET today instead. Interesting."
ReplyDeleteBreaking: Howson takes Rifles off our hands.
ReplyDeleteWell, well, well...
LeBrun: "No buy-out for Ethan Moreau as the Jackets claim him off waivers before noon ET today instead. Interesting."
ReplyDeleteCBJ claims Moreau off waivers as per Mackenzie twitter.
ReplyDeleteWow. I didn't see that coming. Works out even better for us. No cap hit this year and next for Ethan.
ReplyDeleteCould this be part of some sort of handshake agreement between Howson and Tambo? It's the only way I see Howson doing this when he could have gotten Moreau cheaper in free agency.
ReplyDeleteHehe...He's off to Oilers Misfit Island.
ReplyDeleteHowson goes insane.
ReplyDeleteWhy not wait and sign him for a song as a UFA? Did Howson really think a bidding war might break out and he'd have to pay Moreau more than 2MM?
Kris.. Portzline says...
ReplyDeleteThey figured they couldnt get him for 1 yr, 1.75M on July 1
Portzline says CBJ didn't think they could get Moreau for less than 1.75M in FA. I guess Howson saw Ethan good when he was ass.GM and hasn't watched any tape from last year.
ReplyDeleteNo cap hit for Moreau...Huzzah!
I think Howson was worried Moreau would take less money than CLB offered to play elsewhere. (A $600K salary subsidy from the Oilers gives him options)
ReplyDeleteThis unexpected cap savings can only mean one thing:
ReplyDeleteA DVD is being shipped to Kovalchuck's house as we speak.
Spector also saying that Nilsson and POS won't be bought out today. Maybe someone expressed interest in them on re-entry wiavers? OKC?
ReplyDeleteCommonfan: If by shipped you mean hand delivered by the entire Oilers braintrust and Katz.
ReplyDeleteNeeds on D: The Oilers need at least 3 actual NHL defensemen (including the Souray replacement).
ReplyDeleteMan, that is one huge hole in the lineup. I think they have to swing for the fences for a guy like Michalek if they want to have a chance of covering it up. Three no-namers added to our list of already "meh" blueliners is disaster waiting to happen.
I think I'd try everything to get Michalek and make Souray play somehow. The top four would be pretty respectable that way.
Preissing, Pandolfo, Peters, Dawes and Nokelainen on waivers today.
ReplyDeletePandolfo wouldn't be a bad shout in a checking / PK role.
Yeah, Howson must have known Moreau would not have gone to the Bluejackets willingly - at least not without an overpay.
ReplyDelete"Assuming the Oilers do not re-sign Fernando Pisani...only Shawn Horcoff, Ales Hemsky and Jean-Francois Jacques are left from...2006."
ReplyDeletePost nuke, JFJ crawls out. Why?
I really don't want Brewer back.
ReplyDeletePandolfo makes $2.5 MM
ReplyDeleteI'm losing track...
ReplyDeleteThought our motto was "Holy cow, we sure have a lot of defensemen"... LOL
Having said that, Grebeshkov would be high on my list - on a one year deal.
With Hall plus one of MPS / Eberle starting the season, we need offense from the defense to ensure the kids get scoring opportunities. The last thing we need is to have them learn with chip along the boards, shut down defensemen.
For his flaws, Grebeshkov has great long bomb, break out passes.
He is a fast skater; he gets back quick enough to cover 90% of his brain farts...
And he loves one year contracts; which means we get a 2nd round pick at trade deadline if the Oilers are not in the playoffs.
"Pandolfo makes $2.5 MM"...
ReplyDeleteNevermind. ;-)
Gord - I like Grebs, but I think (hope?) there will be better options available for less money (< $1.5MM).
ReplyDeleteLeBrun says he's checking into rumor that POS has been dealt to Phoenix for Vandermeer.
ReplyDeleteReal_ESPNLeBrun
ReplyDeleteAm told by a source Patrick O'Sullivan also not bought out by Oilers because he was traded to Phoenix for Vandermeer. Checking into it
Howson does the Oil a solid? Tambo trades for a veteran defenseman?
ReplyDeletesigns of an impending apocalypse or...??
Luckily there are a crap tonne of free agent defensemen on the market this season. If the Oilers wait it out for awhile they should be able to pick a couple of decent players for next to nothing.
ReplyDeleteThey need a guy that can give top four minutes/PK, a guy with a slap shot for the PP, and a mean SOB for third pairing/PK.
If we're bringing back ex-Oilers do we have any interest in Kotalik..?
ReplyDeleteAt $3M the guy is a disaster-at $1.5M is he worth a look?
Mackenzie is saying that Calgary does not want to buy him out-maybe we can squeeze something out of Sutter to take him on re-entry waivers..?
Does this fall under impending apocalypse?
weird...says deal for Vendermeer is done but both players then bought out. Do we save on this deal? I know why Phoenix would do it.
ReplyDeleteimportant update on O'Sullivan/Vandermeer: traded for each other but both players then bought out according to a source.
ReplyDeleteHey! There's the mean SOB for third pairing/PK. Go get the other two Tambo.
ReplyDeleteVandemeer is a rich man's Strudwick. If he isn't slated as a top four it'd be a decent pick up.
speeds said...
ReplyDeleteFor the sake of argument, is this a playoff team?
I would say probably not. I suppose it's possible but you'd be hoping for a lot of things to come together all at the same time. For example, a 25 game injury to any one of Horcoff, Gagner, Hemsky OR Penner would probably be enough to derail the whole thing right there. Nevermind the very real possibility that the young forwards have learning curves that do not cooperate.
You could point to Colorado last year, but you wouldn't do that, speeds. You know better.
To be honest, I'm still worried about the forwards more than the dmen. If they're going to spend to the cap, I'd prefer they split the spending money down the middle between the forwards and dmen. Dropping the whole $8MM+ on the dmen alone won't fix it.
No one mentioned that the years listed (beginning part of the post) were off by a season.. anyways, nit picking...
ReplyDeleteArron Asham, Nystrom, Armstrong.. nice possible FA's..
I was under the impression that Brewers injury history is more severe than implied.. I like the idea of picking up Scott or even more so Sutton (an enforcer D-man that can be on the ice while the middle-weight pests roam)
I dont like the idea of laraque or Boogy-douchebag, simply because the 4th line has a chance of playing another line to a stalemate (poor mans third line, to shelter kids) whereas an ineffective goon ruins that dynamic imo...
Hopefully the oil add as much quality (read: NHL-calibre) D-men as suggested, with a Clark / Foster pick up in there...
So we did PHX a favor and paid more to buyout VdM and saved them $800K. What do we get?
ReplyDeleteStay tuned.
Vandermeer would be $766,667 for two years.
ReplyDeleteO'Sullivan $935k and $397k.
There'd better be something since Vandermeer is over 26 and we're stuck with a much higher cap hit.
ReplyDeleteWhy didn't we just keep him?
Nice Trade for the Habs!!
ReplyDelete"Sergei Kostitsyn... dealt to the Nashville Predators...
In return, the Habs receive forward Dustin Boyd, goaltender Dan Ellis"
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/trade/2010/06/29/habs_preds_trade/
Why didn't we just keep him?
ReplyDeleteNo kidding. The Oilers need Dmen anyways.
Need the cap room, this year, for LeBron, it's the only explanation.
ReplyDeletemoose -- salaries are about the same. VdM costs 2/3 over 2 years. POS costs 1/3 over 2 years.
ReplyDeleteYou are using POS's cap hit not cash. POS costs $397k x2.
Yeah, Deano I was basically looking at the cap hit to wonder why we did it.
ReplyDeleteI'm with you, I think there's gotta be something coming back for the "favor". Obviously with their financial situation it makes sense for them to save the real dollars. But what do we get? Maybe a pick as a toss in? Interesting to see when it's officially announced.
It isn't actually easy to figure out what the Oilers should do re:fixing the D.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, I'm with Gord when he says we need D who can move the puck in order to load up the guns up front. Gilbert and Whitney give you a couple and Brewer has always had moments (I'm assuming it will be somebody like him who comes back for Souray). Yet at the same time we need to get tougher to play against.
So if we are meeting the first need we might seriously look at Derek Morris or Mike Mottau or take a real flyer on Kevin Dallman (if we can talk him into to returning from the KHL). If we want to meet the second goal we could be looking at anyone from Shaone Morrisonn to Christoph Schubert to John Scott.
Maybe we are looking for a replacement for Souray. Not so simple. The closest, I think, would be Kurtis Foster and he is likely to provoke a bidding war.
Maybe we want the most efficient players possible and then names like Milan Jurcina and Daniel Tarnqvist come into play.
Or we could go with veteran short term help and pay for experience. So then we are talking about Andy Sutton, Darryl Sydor and Jay McKee. Having two or three 800+ game D on the team for a year or two might not be a bad thing.
So it is sort of pick your D and in a very real sense shape the team that the Oilers will become.
I personally am hoping for Mottau, Foster and a flyer on Milan Jurcina (in case he fully recovers from his sports hernia). In other words three guys with a fair amount of experience, known games, and a wide mix of skills and lots of size.
In bank shot's terms Mottau is your 3/4 PK. Foster is your canon on the power play. Jurcina is your tough 5/6 guy. Before the weird trades and injury on a per minute played basis he produced a remarkable number of hits and blocked shots.
Then you've got to ask yourself how much is that going to cost? Probably at least $6,000,000 and possibly as high as $8,000,000.
Deano said...
ReplyDeleteSo we did PHX a favor and paid more to buyout VdM and saved them $800K. What do we get?
Stay tuned.
An advance on signing Michalek? That could be nice.
McKenzie: "So here's the only question worth asking on O'Sullivan-Vandermeer: What is EDM getting from PHX for taking on extra $730K in buyout expense?"
ReplyDeleteWhat is worth $730K?
Gregor at ON is reporting the Oil will keep Vandermeer at $2.3 million this season as the #5 D man. They save money off next years cap and get a Dman.
ReplyDeleteTambo is earning his money this week.
There has to be more to this. You don't just give another team $600K.
ReplyDeletePerhaps Souray to Coyotes? He gets paid $900K less than his cap hit and this would sweeten the deal even more. They need veteran D as they probably can't afford to resign Morris and Michalek. Souray's no trade doesn't end until tomorrow so this could be the first step.
"Oilmaniac said...
ReplyDeleteNice Trade for the Habs!!
"Sergei Kostitsyn... dealt to the Nashville Predators...
In return, the Habs receive forward Dustin Boyd, goaltender Dan Ellis"
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/trade/2010/06/29/habs_preds_trade/"
Except that both Boyd and Ellis are UFAs... goes to show how far Kostitsyn has fallen.
Something tells me the initial report was wrong and we're not buying out Vandermeer. It just doesn't make sense otherwise.
ReplyDeletequain:
ReplyDeleteOilers don't have a prayer.
Burke has been getting the Leafs in position to sign LeBron for over a year now.
Acumen, thanks for the correction.. I wonder why sportsnet left out that detail.. its kinda important.. hehe
ReplyDeleteI thought Boyd was younger than UFA eligible, guess not..
Story up on Oilers website - we are keeping Vandermeer.
ReplyDeleteI think he's better than Strudwick, but couldn't we have done better in FA?
Moreau claimed by the Blue jackets. WTF. Sweet
ReplyDelete@common: it's because the Preds didn't qualify him, he's still fairly young
ReplyDeleteI see Vandermeer wasn't in any playoff games this year. Was he hurt or couldn't crack the lineup?
ReplyDeleteI think he's better than Strudwick, but couldn't we have done better in FA?
ReplyDeleteProbably, but it helped them solve the O'Sullivan problem, and now they are slightly less desperate for UFA defenders.
Good move.
I don't understand why they would want to trade Souray for Brewer, who's just as injury prone, unless they're tanking next season and with so many injury prone guys in key positions...
ReplyDeleteTrading Souray for Brewer frees up room for 2011-12, a season where the Oilers have a better chance to be competitive.
ReplyDeleteHunter - they need rid of Souray, and they won't be able to get rid of him unless they take something expensive or broken back. In their favour, Brewer just has one year of $4.5m cap hit, rather than Souray's two.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure they would take better offers if they were out there.
Flipping Patio Lanterns savings for an overpaid journeyman with 2 years left? Essentially the same as grabbing a Colaiacovo for 2-year overpay.
ReplyDeleteA fine move in my books.
Seen some chatter about Nilsson getting moved in a similar fashion. It'll be interesting to see what comes of that, if anything.
Moreau claimed by the Blue jackets. WTF. Sweet
ReplyDeleteMaybe...
Moreau finished the year a bit stronger. His attitude circa 2006 was great for a team as he was a workout fiend and highly dedicated to the team, so much so that he got pissed off at guys like Nilsson who would stay out partying the night before a game.
However, after being made captain in 2007 he went a little "Walter E. Kurtz" and started making the young players wait in the lobby while he and Staois rode in an otherwise empty elevator. I think they also had to bow to him.
While this is all based upon vague rumours and the such, his attitude shone like a beacon of assholeness during his press interviews.
I think being dumped on waivers may have knocked him down a peg or two in the ego department and you may get the hard working Moreau of 2006 (- some of the ability due to injuries).
Trak - plus, if the rumor is true, we get King also. Tambo likes his knuckledraggers.
ReplyDeleteTrading Souray for Brewer frees up room for 2011-12, a season where the Oilers have a better chance to be competitive.
ReplyDeleteNot to mention you can flip Brewer for a 2nd at the deadline if he's healthy.
Flipping Patio Lanterns savings for an overpaid journeyman with 2 years left? Essentially the same as grabbing a Colaiacovo for 2-year overpay.
ReplyDelete2010/2011 is the last year in Vandeermeer's contract.
Capgeek is showing Nilsson as a buyout already...
ReplyDeleteDid this happen for sure?
Shows -$83K this year and +$417K next year against the cap.
Vandermeer kills penalties...
ReplyDeleteHe had 158 hits in 62 games last season...
O'Sullivan is gone...
More brownie points for Tambellini...
Vandermeer-Strudwick.
ReplyDeleteOh sweet jesus. That would be awful.
Strudwick is UFA right? Theyr both so bad, it would be painful to watch... X2-3 times then watching them alone. God i hope it's not even an option.
I bet Vandeermeer hits the waiver wire sometime this year. (He does like every year)
If the Souray/Brewer deal happens, Tambo is getting to his checklist tout suite.
ReplyDeleteWG - loved your line - now with 'less Vish'.
Yeah Kev - it was you.
On a sidenote, Phoenix doesn't even bother putting up O's on theyr site. LOL!
ReplyDeleteCompared to Lowe's raving style of management, Tambellini's making out like Sam Pollock the past week.
ReplyDeleteAm happy that we don't have to buy out POS and Moreau. That is a tiny improvement for the cap situation in 2011-12, when we might start getting competitive.
ReplyDeleteOf course Vandemeer sucks. But he can fight a bit -though badly, if I remember, he beat Pouliot and got destroyed by Smac once- and that might satiate our misguided need for "toughness."
Dreger: "Nice move by the Oilers trading O'Sullivan. Sources say Edmtn is trying to find a similar fit for Nilsson. If they can't...then they buy him out."
ReplyDeleteOilers are getting quite creative.
Vandermeer:
ReplyDelete- Physical defenseman
- From Caroline, AB
- Traded to the Hawks in '04 with Colin Fraser.
- Traded for POS and costs LESS?!?
Stars aligned for this one.
BTW, love the Souray for Brewer possibility. A healthy Brewer would be a sure #2 or #3 on this D corps. Not that that's saying much, but a certain improvement on the current state.
Whitney - Gilbert
Brewer - Smid
Vandermeer - ???
Johnson - Peckham - Plante as #7
A capable set-up. Lacks some RH in it but is meat and potatoes, not Fancy Dan.
Hunter: Sam Pollock is spinning in his grave on that one.
ReplyDeleteGotta give Tambellini credit. Moreau & POS gone and he got more than a bag of pucks back.
Feels a little better to be an Oil fan today.
I knew they wouldn't be able to resist Vandermeer.
ReplyDeleteAlberta boy.
Whitney-Gilbert
ReplyDeleteBrewer-Smid
Vandemeer-Strudwick
Peckham
Chorney
Khabi
Dubnyk
With injuries, that would mean Peckham and Chorney would spend a lot of time on the ice.
Lottery pick, here we come.
Vandermeer only has one year left according to capgeek.com.
ReplyDeleteThe more I think about this the more I like it. We turn O'sullivan's dead cap space into a much needed veteran Dman and there's nothing committed next season.
vandemeer another Red Deer rebel. Any other Rebels out there to be had? Seems like that is what we are targeting in this off season.
ReplyDeleteI have to say I don't hate these moves so far. Sure they're just trimming around the edges and more like damage control than anything else, but the first couple of times Tambellini had the job he didn't bother making decisions and Lowe was capable of anything. This is definitely better so far.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, the problem in the recent past has often been how they spend the money, not how they save it. All it takes is another Khabibulin-esque move to kill all this good work.
On a sidenote, if we fall again I think i'd be for Couturier.
ReplyDeleteDown for Sean?
RQ - just making lemonade from the lemons - with Howson's and Maloney's help.
ReplyDeleteShould know pretty quick tomorrow if Brewer gets asked to waive his NTC.
Theyr both so bad, it would be painful to watch.
ReplyDeleteEVGA:
Souray 3.47
Chorney 3.38
Whitney 2.99
Gilbert 2.84
Smid 2.22
Vandermeer 2.02
PKGA:
Souray 9.49
Smid 8.84
Gilbert 7.59
Whitney 4.95
Peckham 4.37
Chorney 3.80
Vandermeer 5.99
I would gladdly accept these results from this awful player, who hits and can protect a youth line facing the softs.
Wanye posted this on ON:
ReplyDelete"- Darren Dreger spoke with Souray, who pointed out that his no-trade clause lifts July 1st, so the Oilers can consider any interested teams. Souray still needs additional strengthening in his surgically-repaired hand, but vows to be ready for the 2010-2011 season and will provide his medical records to any interested clubs. Souray also noted, if there's interest, he's happy to return to Edmonton".
Really? Would this be good? Would a healthy Souray have more value at the deadline, or at this point would it be better to just ship him out? healthy he is solid. Maybe he had a real prob with OTC? I'm actually OK with Souray back if healthy. The only piece we then need is a vet 3C and we are set for the year. Except for the whole goalie thing.....
Rickibear: I don't think the real issue with Strudwick, was without the puck, just whenever he needs to interact with it. Ya know passes and stuff.
ReplyDeleteYou gotta be careful with last year's EVGA.
ReplyDeleteThe ES-Sv% behind the Oiler's D was way worse than Vandermeer's I'm guessing.
RQ,
ReplyDeleteI don't think they are going to spend any this year.
Next summer is the big test.
Other than Michalek, there's not too many FA's worth spending $$$ on.
Still wouldn't mind seeing Ladd here to shore up the 3rd line wing.
Does Ladd have arbitration rights?
//You gotta be careful with last year's EVGA.//
ReplyDeleteI am well aware of Bryzgalov versus .865% for 50 games from dd/jdd.
On ice Save Percentage
ReplyDeleteSouray .885
Chorney .912
Whitney .907
Gilbert .909
Smid .928
Vandermeer .924
So i am pleased so far with tambellini the last year. Other then the attrocious Bulin signing, he has made smart moves.
ReplyDelete- traded grebeshkov for a 2nd
- Vish for Whitney
- Moreau on waivers claimed?!!? Maybe he he has pictures of Howson.
- O'sullivan for a depth dman and cap savings next year.
- Cut bait on Pou and Potulny. i know some of you like Pou still, but he cleared the decks of rif raf.
- Fraser for basically nothing.
More to do i know, but he has retooled a lot of the org and the team. Now if he adds a solid two way centre and makes good on the Souray deal I think we would have to applaud the off season. No whale hunting Steve, you are on the right track.
Anyone like the idea of claiming Dawes off waivers from CAL?
ReplyDeleteNot a long term deal or expensive, he's signed for 850K next year, then an RFA. Not a big guy, but had 14 goals and over 30 points last year, would seem like a potential 3rd/4th line fit?
Souray also noted, if there's interest, he's happy to return to Edmonton
ReplyDeleteThis would be good news IMO. No point selling low.
"Souray also noted, if there's interest, he's happy to return to Edmonton"
ReplyDeleteBut that's equivalent to rescinding the trade demand. Or did he mean happy to return to Edmonton if no one else is interested?
Why do a distress trade on a guy who says he'd come back if we want him?
speeds - Dawes is pretty similar to Brule, but 2" smaller. I might want Dawes instead of paying Brule, but not both.
ReplyDeleteMaybe a lot of the issues Souray had with the club have been shown the door in recent weeks. Hard to know what to think of the guy. All signs point to a good character, but everyone questions him months after he basically tore a strip out of management for their dithering ineptitude.
ReplyDeleteSomething that everyone wanted to see done, iirc.
I like him fine as a player for our current needs.
If Souray is actually interested in staying in Edmonton, my strategy on Souray would be: Start the season with him, pray that he stays healthy for a good chunk of the season, and then hope that a few teams are willing to give up something of value for him.
ReplyDeleteIf he really is open to staying, whey get rid of him when his value is the lowest?
Saw Kent's post about Dawes hitting the waivers. Oilers should be taking advantage of any short-term, value contracts they can. Dawes definitely looks like he would outperform his cap hit and he could come off the books next year. This could be our GlenX in reverse!
ReplyDeleteWould he bump MPS or Omark from a roster spot though? Not that either would be a bad idea, but I'm guessing the Oilers are selling hope next year and Paajarvi is a lot sexier than Dawes. If we're looking to go bigger/tougher, also not sure he matches the team's job description.
re: Dawes
ReplyDeleteI don't the the New Oilers™ are looking to get any smaller.
Pass on Dawes.
ReplyDeleteWe don't need 13th forward types and if we did Voros would be a better option.
Just realized that we traded Joni Pitkanen for Jim Vandermeer.
ReplyDeleteKind of sobering.
2010/2011 is the last year in Vandeermeer's contract.
ReplyDeleteMust have misread, thanks WG. That's an even better situation...
Down for Sean?
That made my head hurt just trying to get the two words to rhyme... Besides, LT said it best: "There is no Duncan Keith bubbling under."
Adam Larsson and anyone that says otherwise. IS. WRONG.
Souray also noted, if there's interest, he's happy to return to Edmonton
WHAT?! After the vitriol he spewed at the end of the season, I am actually shocked to hear that. He's a piece I'd keep if he's happy... Shelly singled out the management and dragged the Org through the mud in his little tantrum. Now the only thing that hasn't changed is the management (except less Vish) and he wants back in?
There is a new energy around the Oilers player wise and coaching wise.
ReplyDeleteSouray may be more interested in the "new" Oiler team.
H may also figure that to convince possible suitors about his health he would have to play a bit, so the trade deadline may be a better option for club and player.
No way Souray can come back here.
ReplyDeleteI suspect this might be he and his agent's attempt at being the good citizen in hopes of increasing interest or giving the appearence of not tying Tambo's hands.
"That's true but only if by best player you are considering play at both ends of the ice. A player who doesn't score much but doesn't give up much either is a better player, in terms of team success, than one who scores a lot but gives up even more than that. If this team is ever going to be a real contender then these young players HAVE to learn that."
ReplyDeleteI'd disagree. I'll take my chances on the guy scoring more to eek out a plus than the guy who never does anything. But whatever, that's a team structure debate. I know the standard position around here; I don't believe that wins.
I'm a little pissed we're keeping Vandermeer. Don't like bum defencemen who can't even put up 15 or play a full season making 2.3 mil. Oh well...if you want one you can get one for a mil. We should have.
@commonfan13:
ReplyDelete5v5.....GF/60 GA/60 +-/60:
Vandermeer 2.20 2.07 0.13
Pitkannen 2.67 2.92 -0.25
But Vandermeer is the coveted out-of-context-out-scorer¡
;)
Vandemeer:
ReplyDeleteCorsi ON: 4.98 (middle of the pack)
Rel Corsi: 0.2 (a little lower)
His qual comp, qual team, and zonestart make it look to me like he saw fairly easy minutes, consistent with being a third pairing D-man.
He's not a terrible D-man, just overpriced, as everyone knows.
If he plays reasonably well, maybe the Oil can get him to sign a home town discount deal for the next couple of seasons.
I'd rather have him than Strudwick, anyway. Although we'll see how Vandermeer fairs playing with our unbalanced lineup.
Just realized that we traded Joni Pitkanen for Jim Vandermeer.
ReplyDeleteKind of sobering.
Well, that's not the whole truth... since he became part of the Chris Pronger return.
We traded Chris Pronger for:
- Ladislav Šmíd
- Cameron Abney
- Jordan Eberle
- Allan Rourke
- and now Jim Vandermeer
- Part of Dustin Penner
- Part of Martin Marincin
His really is the gift that keeps on giving...
@speeds
ReplyDeletedawes was nothing special last year in calgary in a "saw him really average" sort of way. i think we'd be better to keep potulny for the 13/14f...i don't think there's any way that tambi gets another midget for the bottom 6.
Tambo's bruised feeling aside, the best thing for the team would be to extract maximum value in trade for Souray. He needs to play healthy until the deadline to raise his value.
ReplyDeleteSay all the right things in the press. Play nice. Then send him away at the deadline for a pick and a prospect.
"Oh well...if you want one you can get one for a mil"
ReplyDeleteNet cost for picking up Vandermeer is less than a mil. Subtract the POS buyout that PHX pays for.
Also, maybe the things Souray didn't like, (Moreau, Nilsson, POS, Training Staff, OTC, Torpid Tambi) are gone. Now he's okay with sticking around if no one else wants him.
ReplyDelete(I don't know if his problem was any of those things, but if I was on the team, I don't think I would like those things.)
"Now he's okay with sticking around if no one else wants him"
ReplyDeleteBut Dreger said he'll come back IF Edmonton wants him. Did he really mean he doesn't need to be shopped any more?
Rumor Mill had Souray and Moreau butting heads a lot.
ReplyDeleteWith Moreau and Staios gone, along with a lot of the players from last season, and young players coming in like Hall I can see Souray wanting to stick around if the Oilers still want him.
It's basically a fresh start.
Souray's trade request was weird in the first place.
ReplyDeleteHe was mad that:
a.) Management didn't contact him while he was injured. I really don't get this. I assumed that management wouldn't check in on a guy not in the lineup. That's the job of trainers. Maybe the captain phones the guy to say hi. You invite him to team functions, stuff like that. Just a weird complaint.
b.) The team asked him to play injured and come back early from injuries. This is unforgiveable. But isn't it the training staff's decision. I mean if the trainers said the guy wasn't ready, that should be the whole deal. Who knows.
c.) The management -presumably Lowe and Tambellini- questioned his character in private in a way that hadn't happened with other teams. I admit, that's management's fault. But I really don't see that as reason to leave a team. The coach is playing you. The guys in the room respect you. Who gives a shit if Lowe or Tambellini phones you occasionally and plays the asshole. Hardly seems like a reason for a trade request.
Anyway, I imagine all of this is management's fault, but I suspect they can bring Souray back in the fold if they want to with a little ass kissing.
I'd move him to try and generate more cap space in 2011-012
LMHF :
ReplyDelete"I'd disagree. I'll take my chances on the guy scoring more to eek out a plus than the guy who never does anything."
How can you disagree with what you quoted? The point is that even if Player B scores more than Player A, he's not a better player than A if he's responsible for more GA than GF. The point is Player A isn't going to eek out a plus very often at all. He eeks out a plus 10 games a year, great, but what about the other 70 when he's a minus?
I mean... mediocre ain't great, but it's better than plain old bad.
There's a ton of Hawks fans here in Chi-town who absolutely love Vandermeer. We got a good bottom 2 defender with an edge.
ReplyDeleteNow if we can get anything for Nilsson, I'll wonder who kidnapped Tambs and put that copy in his place...
I've been saying for.. god, I don't know how long now, the Oilers just really need some quality savvy vets / reliable d-men and they will be able to fumble their way into the playoffs. It doesn't have to look pretty.
ReplyDeleteThey need some guys who can defend their own zone. Possible targets out there might be Shaone Morrisson, Derek Morris or Zbynek Michalek. They are young enough to fit our youth movement as well. I don't mind the idea of Eric Brewer in exchange for Sheldon Souray either (currently rumored).
The biggest need (other than a goaltender who can actually play) is a shutdown d-man. With a guy who can prevent the team from leaking goals, I think we'd be much better off. We've got the offense covered enough.
I also agree with the idea of Volchenkov and Exelby (Although as you pointed out RB says he's done..?). Jon Scott though? No thank you!!! Too big and slow. We picked up Vandermeer.. that's good enough for toughness.. now we need someone who can play D, and that's not Scott's forte so much.
Whitney - Gilbert
ReplyDeleteSmid - *****
Chorney/Peckham - Vandermeer
*****
Not amazing, but better than what it was a couple hours ago.
I can't imagine Chorney breaking camp with the big club. He needs to go to OKC and develop his game.
ReplyDeleteOn a somewhat related subject - Nigel Dawes is what Jordan Weal looks like if Weal works out as a pick.
ReplyDeleteIs it possible that Souray included Quinn as part of "management" because saying "coach" or "coaching team" would point too Quinn to obviously?
ReplyDeleteIs it possible that Souray included Quinn as part of "management" because saying "coach" or "coaching team" would point too Quinn to obviously?
ReplyDeleteTechnically possible. But was there anything in his comments that made him look like a guy leery of calling people out too specifically?
Of course, now Quinn really is management.
As far as I can tell, Occam suggests one of two things: Souray's lying (with the Oilers complicit) in an effort to increase the chances that the Oilers will find a deal worth making to ship him out of town, or Souray met with management and they ironed things out (that the Tambellini's actually getting the ship pointed in the right direction on a bunch of other fronts can't hurt either).
Occam also permits:
ReplyDelete3) Souray mispoke. He just meant if no one else is interested.
4) Bad writing. The writer meant #3.
If it's all good, you'd think the Oilers would want that to be public. Trade price is less distressed.
On a somewhat related subject - Nigel Dawes is what Jordan Weal looks like if Weal works out as a pick.
ReplyDeleteOhhh, Ooooo, Ohhhh
Don't let the Copper'N'Blue guys hear you typing like that!
“It’s a good fit. I’ll be used the way I’m supposed to be used,” - Ethan Moreau.
ReplyDeleteHuh, didn't realize we were using his tactical aggressive O-zone penalties improperly.
Really? Would this be good? Would a healthy Souray have more value at the deadline, or at this point would it be better to just ship him out? healthy he is solid. Maybe he had a real prob with OTC? I'm actually OK with Souray back if healthy. The only piece we then need is a vet 3C and we are set for the year. Except for the whole goalie thing.....
ReplyDeleteMaybe he's seeing that Lowe's been pushed out of the way. He did indicate that his problem was with management. Unless he meant Quinn. Or maybe he was lying and it really was the training staff he had a problem with? Maybe the trainers were claiming it was "management" sending him back in when really, it was Kenny all along.
Ich bin confused.
Anyone like the idea of claiming Dawes off waivers from CAL?
I think that would improve the bottom six, yes.
As far as I'm concerned Vandermeer's best traits are that he is better than what we had and that he is very happy to be an Oiler.
ReplyDeleteDoogie2K: I recall Souray specifically pulling the training staff out from under the bus. Almost as a point to stick it to management.
ReplyDeleteeveryone assumes souray is gone.we will find out soon.what if management can sit down & both sides can reconcile? Edmonton forgave comrie so why not souray? He was frustrated like all of us & his teammates.of he's healthy & happy,his 20 goals 45-50 points could really make a diiference.he's tough,clears the net & puts up points.what more can you want? He's got 2 years left & he's still got some value.if he has a good year his value becomes greater but if he's gets hurt then it's a problem.having Whitney,Gilbert,smid,souray,Peckham & another guy as your top 6 really isn't to bad.actually it's one of the better top 4 in the NHL if they all stay healthy.....just a thought but would anyone care if we brought him back? The oilers don't have to start eberle & mps in the NHL.even without them we still send out horcoff,gagner,Fraser,o'marra at center.hemsky,brule,jones,stortini at rw.hall,penner,cogliano,jacques on the lw....I think cogliano is gone.a nice big right handed checking winger would be nice.one who can play shutdown & pk.
ReplyDeleteI recall Souray specifically pulling the training staff out from under the bus. Almost as a point to stick it to management.
ReplyDeleteWhich is part of why I'm so baffled that he might consider staying. He was so adamant it was management, that unless his problem was very specifically with either Kevin Lowe or Pat Quinn, this doesn't make any sense.
Re: Souray
ReplyDeleteI think its probably all of the above.
1. Moreau constantly stating "Com'n guys, we can win this if everyone just works as hard as me and played through the odd little shoulder injury" while making Gagner clean his toenails with Cogliano's toothbrush.
2. Management leaving Moreau in the captains chair "full speed ahead" all while singing his praises (Quinn & MacT particularly).
3. Kevin Lowe popping in and showing off his 6 cup rings all while telling them how they did things in the old days.
4. The dressing room staff also talking about the old days as opposed to keeping up with the 'new days'
5. Renney actually coaching, but being overruled by Quinn's "Never mind all that fancy dan stuff, just go get'em boys. Now, has anyone seen my onion?"
6. "Six Stanley Cup rings, and did I mention how often I played through injuries, yep that's how we did it in those days. Remember Sparky, the old days, the boys on the bus..."
7. All of the other weaknesses that people like LT identified as not being addressed. Including things like trying to dump Penner and Cogs to get Heatley.
My thought is that Souray probably really likes Tambellini 3.0 and in fact may have been part of the force behind shifting the team from Tambi 2.0 to 3.0. He may feel like he might actually get a chance to play for the team he thought he was going to come to.
I think the fans would accept him back if he just said that he didn't like where things were going, but that he is now excited about the direction of the team.
It could also be that there have been no bites and he has no interest sitting out the season while awaiting a trade.
Honestly, if Souray wants back, I'd take him back unless there's a good return waiting for him. Brewer would be acceptable, but anything less, if he's sincere about wanting to stay, fuck it, keep him. You could do worse than a top 4 of Whitney-Gilbert and Souray-Smid. A lot worse. It's not a Stanley Cup-winning D, but it'll do while the kids mature.
ReplyDeleteBut then, I really enjoyed his tantrum. These assholes had it coming, and now that real improvement seems to be happening (even if it's the same guys at the top, and it's really stuff that people have been saying for a while), I'd imagine his anger has dropped off the same as mine has.
off topic but since I'm a jacques fan I'll throw this out to all the haters...he hits everything that moves,he fights any & all heavyweights(anyone who goes toe to toe with parros is tough),he can skate very well.you can't have all those hits if you can't skate.he gets there & finishes every check while stortini(who I also like)doesn't.he attempts to hit everything but he's too slow & often gets left behind but is still very effective in his role.if jacques doesn't get hurt,he either leads the league in hits or close behind a guy like clutterbuck.jacques doesn't need puck skills if he's playing his physical role....tambo do not bring in boogard! No rushing the kids either.
ReplyDeleteThe other reason. His NMC expired.
ReplyDeleteThe other reason. His NMC expired.
ReplyDeleteMaybe he heard that the Oilers were trading him to Omsk for Jagr.
@bookie: LMAO
ReplyDeleteIt's a long way from Omsk to So Cal...
if we send eberle,mps,omark all down to the minors to start the year that gives us a great first line & a potential top 4 defence in okc could be motin,chorney,petry,plante....pitton in goal.that's not bad & if you surround these guys with good ahlers & I have no doubt our organization is going in the right direction both in the show & on the farm
ReplyDeleteadd stone & a guy like Steve mcintyre down on the farm to protect the young guns....one other thought to all of the oiler fans....be PATIENT! Not many teams can lose their #1 goalie,best forward(hemsky),& their best dman(souray) & have success.
ReplyDeleteBringing back Souray is all well and good, unless Tambo is of the opinion he is a nutbar/ malcontent.
ReplyDeleteNo matter how much he might help the team, you do not want him screwing up the attitude of guys like Hall, Eberle, and MPS.
Maybe he had legit concerns and maybe the recent changes have addressed them but I would be leaning towards the malcontent liklihood myself.
Got to say though, Tambo is really impressing. Sure he got lucky with the Moreau waiver pick up (although I expect he was talking him up to Howson) but making the decision to turf 5 forwards (6 if you include Pisani) is unprecedented around here.
Souray making nice about Edmonton, I suspect, because:
ReplyDeletea) wants to look not so terribly cancerous to other teams.
b) realizes he has little trade value, will have to stay in Oilers organization to prove he's healthy before any trade, and doesn't want to be sent down to OK City.
I can't see how he and Tamby have anything but enmity between them.
ReplyDeleteI can't see how he and Tamby have anything but enmity between them.
David - that was Tambi 2.0, most of us hated him. This however is Tambi 3.0 and he seems to be much more likable.
Joe Strong,
ReplyDeleteDo you work for the Oilers and/or JF Jacques?
Dstaples nailed it.
ReplyDeleteSo, L.T. Posts about forwards and BOOM! 3 on waivers.
Then L.T. Posts about Dmen and BOOM! A dutchman shows up to play D.
L.T. Should post about old Goalies now. :)
Or better yet Presidents!!
Tambo
ReplyDeletehttp://oilers.nhl.com/club/podcastplayer.htm?pid=98&iid=23531
Vandermeer
http://oilers.nhl.com/club/podcastplayer.htm?pid=98&iid=23528&navid=DL|EDM|home
Dawes would be a nice guy to add to Oklahoma
ReplyDeletetheformercaptainethanmoreau due to be interviewed by Gregor on his show at 5:45.
ReplyDeleteWoah woah woah WG...
ReplyDeleteI think you need to slow this train down a little bit. I mean, this is surely all coincidence. It's not like LT would have kidnapped Steve Tambellini and is holding him at gunpoint to ensure that the Oilers are making smart moves this summer. I mean, LT's one of the most moderate people on the Oilogoshpere. Besides, it would take a huge event, like the Oilers dumping both Viacheslav Trukhno and Marc Pouliot wihtin the same week to shock LT into doing... something...like...
...Huh...
Well, enjoy your new home Steve! And don't worry LT - your secret is safe with us!
Also... with Vandermeer pusshing Plante down the Depth Chart, our GP total for the D looks to be closer to 1950 now.
ReplyDeleteDon't know that it means much, but... its a bigger number!
//On a somewhat related subject - Nigel Dawes is what Jordan Weal looks like if Weal works out as a pick.//
ReplyDeleteOhhh, Ooooo, Ohhhh
Don't let the Copper'N'Blue guys hear you typing like that!
Hey, I was one of the guy touting Weal, and I don't mind this comp. Dawes has managed to make a career of it, ~200 NHL games from a mid-round selection and he's still just 25. Weal might have a little more upside, but if he earns 200 games to prove himself he will have done well from the #70 hole.
Btw, here's a direct comp of contemporaries:
Dawes 66 GP, 14-18-32, +1
Potulny 64 GP, 15-17-32, -21
Both are 25, Potulny a little taller, Dawes a little heavier. Potulny shoots a little more frequently, with a lower Sh%. The biggest statistical difference between them last year was +/-, some of which can be attributed to the shittiness of their relative teams.
Oh yeah, and both were dumped in the last 24 hours by teams looking to improve their depth. Can you say "replacement level"?
One thing (maybe) worth noting with Dawes is that Renney has coached him before with the Rangers, so there's some history there if Dawes was a guy Renney found useful.
ReplyDelete