Steve Tambellini has effectively trimmed the forwards and is ready for July 1. Ethan Moreau, Patrick O'Sullivan and Robert Nilsson were placed on waivers earlier today, and the team didn't qualify Marc Pouliot and Ryan Potulny on Monday. The depth chart has changed tremendously up front, and looked a little thin on the blue before things got rolling. The goaltending situation is also fluid, with the team trying to figure out how to offload a young G when their veteran is on the docket later in the summer.
The forwards have a nice group of candidates for the top 6 slots, and then a distinct lack of qualified laborers for the bottom 6.
Center: Sam Gagner should be able to continue his progression toward the #1 job, and one hopes Renney "saw him good" on the powerplay and when he played with Dustin Penner. Shawn Horcoff may or may not be on the top line, but if healthy (and even if he isn't) #10 will be facing the tough minutes this fall. Colin Fraser offers the team a wider range of skills than was available here last season and could be a key component for faceoffs and penalty-kill. Andrew Cogliano has survived the first purge, but I suspect the club may be shopping him for a right-handed, physical center who can play against tougher opposition and come out even or better. Ryan O'Marra was qualified and he brings that physical element that is this year's main ingredient; don't be surprised if he breaks camp with the big club. Chris Vande Velde is a new pro, but there's all kinds of opportunity here and if he comes to camp and plays a physical style (watch Slap Shot kid!) there's an outside chance of making this team (as listed here).
- Needs at C: Gagner to improve, and Cogliano's light to go on.
- Help at LW: They could use a more experienced, qualified and physical Ryan Jones for the 3line.
Right Wing: Ales Hemsky is an outstanding offensive player, pure reaction and ad-lib. The club would do well to marry him to Horcoff once again, and have the duo attack the tougher opponents throughout the season. This will leave the soft parade to the kids. Gilbert Brule had an impressive scoring season and the club needs him to improve and to sign him to a value contract. It'll be a huge part of Steve Tambellini's summer. Zack Stortini remains an effective depth winger, although he may be promoted onto the 3line on nights when Renney wants to run the kids (instead of the thugs) on the 4line. Jordan Eberle might get a look at center (Hall, too) but is more likely to get his first major league at-bats on a protected kid line. Colin McDonald has not been signed, but I'll list him here because he has some of the same skills Pisani brought to the big leagues and the team can still sign him. Ryan Stone is also a free agent to be, but the Oilers still have a couple of days to sign him so I'll include him on our depth chart.
- Help at RW: The club needs a replacement for Pisani on the 3line.
So, what the team needs (in a nutshell) is a replacement for the 2006 Raffi Torres (or just Raffi Torres) at left wing; and a replacement for the 2006 Fernando Pisani on right wing. And if they acquired Derek Boogaard that would be fine by me. They could also use a more effective 3line C (pushing Fraser to the 4line).
Tomorrow: the Blue and the Black.
Boogaard could be fun for a year or two during the rebuild, but i think he's a liability on any team looking to contend for a playoff spot, let alone the Stanley Cup.
ReplyDeleteMaybe sign him to a short term contract but i'd rather an enforcer who isn't slow as molasses.
So if they do a sheltered kids line then LT do you expect the top 2 lines to be:
ReplyDeleteHall-Horcoff-Hemsky
Penner-Gagner-Brule
I am still a big fan of a pair of additions, namely Colby Armstrong and Manny Malhotra.
ReplyDeleteI think Armstrong fits the 3RW role perfectly, and Malhotra can play C or W, is a top flight FO and PK guy. I'd bet the pair costs 2.5-3 mil per year total, and for the next 2 years I'd be more than happy paying a little more than market for each...
@DBO: I much prefer Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky and then a solid 3 line (say MPS-Malhotra-Armstrong) with an offense kid line, Hall-Gagner-Brule, and an energy line like Jones-Fraser-Stortini.
I cannot obey your instruction not to be surprised if O'Marra makes the team out of camp. I'm still pretty sure that I dreamed the NHL games he's played so far.
ReplyDeleteI'd honestly run a Hall-Horcoff-Hemsky and Penner-Gagner-Eberle top six, assuming Eberle looks ready. Two pairings with histories of success, paired with kids with top notch skills. That's how you protect kids... give them two guys who can play reasonably well. The 'drunk girl on prom night' line of three mediocre kids is never a good idea.
ReplyDeleteAlthough, if Horc-Hemsky is the power vs power line, you may not want Hall in that mix quite yet.
Striatic - Didnt we get a guy who can fight and skate in Fraser? And Stortini isnt bad either.
ReplyDeleteLT your description of the goaltending situation as being fluid cracked me up. Thats definitely one way to put it.
I honestly dont see Coglianos light going on while playing centre on this team. I think he should either be traded or played on the wing with some quality teammates. What do people think about Hall playing centre? I dont think its a bad idea because either at centre or wing he will have to retune his game for the NHL (he cant just skate past or push through opposition anymore) so they might as well try gearing it towards a centreman considering he has experience at both.
Penner -- Gagner -- Hemsky
MPS -- Horcoff -- Cogliano
FA -- Fraser -- Brule
Jones -- Hall -- Eberle
91/46
Renney sheltered Jagr didnt he? Sees the value in murdering the softs?
ReplyDeleteMight be a good year to have Hemsky in your hockey pool.
Hall/Gagner/Hemsky to handle softs? A decent road line, murderous at home.
Maybe something like:
ReplyDeletePenner - Horcoff - Hemsky
Hall - Gagner - Eberle
MPS - Cogliano - Brule
Jones - Fraser - Stortini
Stone
At least as the roster looks today.
I also wonder about shifting MPS to the right since he says he plays both. The you'd definitely want to consider what a line could look like with him and Hall and all that speed on the wings.
I like the idea of sheltering one kid per line, especially when they are top end kids. Eberle was one of our better players at camp last year, and MPS has shown he can play with the big boys. Add Hall and you can probably roll them on 3different lines. Someone yesterday mentioned that kids in the SEL learn to play a checking role when they first come up, so i wonder if MPS can play in his own zone enough to play 3LW?
ReplyDelete"Striatic - Didnt we get a guy who can fight and skate in Fraser? And Stortini isnt bad either."
ReplyDeleteyeah, but neither of those guys are true "Fear of God" enforcers. Fraser and Stortini stand up for their teammates. Boogaard *hurts* people.
i'm not saying the oilers even need an FoG enforcer in the lineup and i'm not even sure that role is a necessity in the NHL these days [see lack of fights in 09-10 playoffs] but i don't agree that what Stortini does and what Boogaard does are comparable.
if we could get the Boogaard from a few years ago, back when he could skate a little, then maybe. but i saw enough guys blow buy him last year to suggest he's a major liability when he doesn't have his gloves off.
Striatic- Yeah I guess, but if you are looking for someone who can hurt someone in a NHL hockey fight look no further than Mr. Sheldon Souray.
ReplyDeleteQuain I think the way you protect youth is pairing them with quality teammates like you said, but also not throwing them into the deep end in terms of quality of opposition. I personally wouldnt worry about two of Eberle MPS and Hall playing together as long as it was with one defensively decent player and against weak opposition. Three is crazy, no one would EVER play three kids together. Ever.
What this team needs a 2RW and half an NHL defence.
ReplyDeleteSam Gagner should be able to continue his progression toward the #1 job, and one hopes Renney "saw him good" on the powerplay
Continues is a strong word since Gagner has done little other than tread water offensively, and slightly improve his defence y-o-y.
God hopes that Renney did see Gagner good on the PP and thus Hall gets 1PP time at C (since he won't supplant Penner) and then Gagner kicks Horcoff down to 3 PP.
If Gagner is a better option than Hall right now at 1PP I'll be stunned.
Besides Gagner plays the PP the same way Hemsky does (on the wall) and I assume you're not pitching Gagner take Hemsky's spot.
Magnus Pääjärvi-Svensson will get a long look and could make the big club (possibly on a Kid Line with Andrew Cogliano and Jordan Eberle--thanks to Dean Belanger for the suggestion at lunch today).
I hope to God this line never happens. Ever. Not this year and not next year and not the years after. That's a supremely stupid line since it comletely lacks a puck-distributor, a face-off winner, or anyone who can play defence.
RW is the big hole, and I don't expect Brule to be the answer at 2RW.
Fraser is a middle weight, storts isnt much more either..
ReplyDeleteMy vote is for Scott,..
And/or Andy Sutton if the sens didnt re'up him already..
F' Boogard...
DBO,
ReplyDeleteI think if we ran a sheltered kid line it would give an opportunity to try Hall at center and run out MPS-Hall-Eberle for a looksee.
spOiler,
ReplyDeleteRW is the big hole, and I don't expect Brule to be the answer at 2RW.
What do you think about MPS as 2RW given his statements?
Funny, I was watching the Braves vs. Strasburg last night and noticed Hall's resemblance to Chipper Jones too.
ReplyDeleteThe depth chart looks awfully thin right now. It wouldn't take much for this to go sideways. It'll be interesting to see if they manage to grab a decent player or two on the UFA market.
If we are trying to compete:
ReplyDeleteTorres
Comrie
Malhotra
I like:
ReplyDeletePaajarvi-Horcoff-Hemsky
Hall-Gagner-Eberle
Penner-Cogliano-Brule
Jones-Fraser-Stortini
Jacques
Ideally, they trade Cogliano and stuff for a Dubinsky-type.
If we agree that Penner and Hemsky are both strong EV players then why would be stick our 4th best offensive center between them for defensive purposes?
ReplyDeleteYou could stick Brule, Cogliano, Gagner or any other center between Hemsky and Penner and they're going to come out on top.
At what point do we put together a line that forces that other team to play tough minutes?
If Horcoff wants to play to a draw that's cool but why not do it on the 3rd line with a couple other 3rd line guys? David Bolland won Chicago the Stanley Cup playing on the 3rd line. Nobody is saying that Horcoff isn't an important player but put him in the damn role that he belongs in.
Horcoff 3C
Fraser 4C
Oh, Traktor. You and that crazy typewriter of yours. :-)
ReplyDeleteTorres would be a nice pick-up—assuming that bridge isn't burned to cinders.
ReplyDeleteHe has played well against decent opposition in the past and given his recent history shouldn't cost too much to sign.
That, and Canucks fans really, really hate the guy—which is reason enough to sign him.
Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky
ReplyDeleteWhitney-Cullen-Pisani
Jones-Fraser-Stortini
Hall-Gagner-MPS
That'd be nice. Overpay for Whitney and Cullen on one or two year pacts with promises of being traded to a contender at the deadline.
Torres would be a nice pick-up—assuming that bridge isn't burned to cinders.
ReplyDeleteYou're only remembering the nights that he was the Mexican Tornado and forgetting the other 65 games a year where he was POS.
Booogaaard (is that enough vowels?)
No. I would rather get George Laroque and give him one of those pokey straps that they use to make bulls ornery. That or maybe Katz has some kind of pharmaceutical that makes people angry.
I am sure there is someone better than either of those two - maybe we go for team toughness...
I still don't see enough players that you can trust; unless you think that one of MPS or Hall can hang with 10-83 and playing the toughs or you believe that 27-89-67 can handle secondary toughs.
ReplyDeleteI think that the most we can handle is two of Hall-MPS-Eberle in the lineup and I can't see any way that Hall doesn't make the club, 13's a lost cause and is misfit and should be dealt for a D and a good start for a 4th line is Jones-Stone-Fraser-Stortini.
So I think we need a matching C-RW combo -- both have to kill penalties -- AND two D besides.
So while I do see a lot of clutter -- and expensive clutter at that -- being moved out I still don't think the picture is close to being clear.
Dennis: Well, we need to keep in mind that the additions aren't here yet.
ReplyDeleteThere's every chance your statements will be true a week from now, but the Oilers do in fact have a chance to address everything you've mentioned in your post.
Will they? Let me find my big 8 ball and give it a shake. :-)
Dennis is right. We should trade Cogs, or Brule for help at D. Unfortunately, Cogs value ain't what it used to be.
ReplyDelete---
Hell of a post LT. We might suck next year, but so far the offseason is and looks to continue to be more exiting than when the team was actually playing.
Boys I usually never post and absolutley love the discussions and blog. I just have to say without a doubt Colby Armstrong is the guy to go after can play tough minutes, hit, piss people off, score and not to mention he is a leader and great in the locker room exacfly what the team needs.
ReplyDeleteLT: Yeah they have time for sure but there are still some big holes to fill.
ReplyDeleteDennis: I just hope they have the same list. I get a feeling we're going to see an enforcer on F, another on D and a couple of depth signings.
ReplyDeleteIf we're all tossing lineups:
ReplyDeletePvP: MPS-Horc-Hemmer
>> of rookies MPS most experience vs men
2nd: Penner-Gagner-Brule
>> respectable 2nd as seen this year
3rd: Stone-Comrie-Eberle
>> Eberle better than POS
Soft: Hall-Cogs-Stortini/Jones
>> Kill the softs, rotate Eberle at opportune times
If MPS is up to it defensively, the speed on the 1st could be crazy. The second is a legit line. The 3rd/4th have potential but also a lot of ?'s.
Shoot forgot Fraser... If Cogs turns into Dubinsky then 3 and 4 start to look decent.
ReplyDeleteLet's agitate Bruce. If the Oilers grab a good, and they have guys like Jones, Fraser, and even JFJ waiting in the wings, can they find a spot for Stortini.
ReplyDeleteI say you can only have one guy in the bottom 6 who is in the lineup for fighting. The other guys have to be PK'ers, faceoff guys, guys who can play in their own zone, maybe a kid or two getting minutes, guys from the AHL that you want to take a look at, maybe even a PP specialist.
Stortini plays okay on the 4th line and fights, but he can't play there if Boogaaaarrd is there too.
I bet Stortini has a little trade value.
What sites do you guys use for advanced stats like Corsi, Zone Start, etc.?
ReplyDeleteI'm curious how Matthew Lombardi & Eric Nystrom grade out. Those are the two UFA's I be targeting for a lineup that looks something like this.
Penner Gagner Hemsky
Hall Horcoff Eberle
Jones Lombardi Brule
Nystrom Fraser Stortini
Stone, O'Marra (press box)
MPS (AHL to start)
Cogliano (Trade)
As a former Oiler draft pick, Lombardi seems to have the intangibles as well as some of the hard skills we're looking for (PK, decent on the dot). I'd be surprised if they don't make a play for him,
Lee:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.behindthenet.ca/
hm .. i've never played at imaginary line-making before but here goes nothing.
ReplyDeletePenner-Horcoff-Hemsky
Hall-Gagner-Brule
MPS-Comrie-Eberle
Stone-Fraser-JFJ/Stortini
Trade Cogliano for Defense, and 'replace' with Comrie
say, that was fun.
I read somewhere that with Moreau bought out, there is no more pieces left to the Wayne Gretzky trade. Is that correct?
ReplyDeleteI also have Armstrong and Malhotra at the top of my list of free agent forwards to sign. Both are players I've wanted on the team for a while. However, I doubt either will be signed. Malhotra was available last summer when we had the same gaping hole at center, and Tambellini didn't seem interested. Armstrong might have a lot of suitors, and I wouldn't want the team to overpay for him. Another forward I'd be looking at is Eric Nystrom,
ReplyDeleteWell, I don't think there's a chance in hell any of those guys are coming here. Armstrong is going to get offers from contending teams and so is Malhotra. I don't think EDM gets a top tier UFA this summer, but that doesn't mean they can't get some quality.
ReplyDeleteI hope the girl's name line of Hall-Gagner-Eberle gets the occasional look next season so they can start building something.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't it be fun if TSN panels were debating in 3 1/2 years whether all three guys from Edmonton's chick line should make the Olympic team?
Interesting article on the top ten nhl ready kids from the 2010 draft class. Pitlick is number 10. Could skip the AHL.
ReplyDeletehttp://premiumscouting.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52:top-10-nhl-ready-2010-draft-prospects&catid=10:nhl-entry-draft&Itemid=17
How would 31 year old right-shooting center, Adam Mair fit?
ReplyDeleteWith talk of Buffalo intereted in Souray, would we be able to pry Gaustad from them? Solves our 3rd line centre with size and grit, settles the PK and allows us to let the kids develop with solid centres. Gagner, Horcoff, Gaustad, Fraser is a solid 4 centres. No true # 1 (yet) but a chance to grow into it with gagner. Of course I'd love Dubinsky from the NYR, but that only happens in my dreams. Not sure if we have enough shiny objects to pry him away from Sather.
ReplyDeleteNobody is saying that Horcoff isn't an important player but put him in the damn role that he belongs in.
ReplyDeleteYes, power-on-power centre playing on one of the top two lines with either Hemsky or Penner, if not both, as his wingers.
Someday you'll understand that's how good coaches win hockey games this century - good players with other good players against the other team's good players. And Shawn Horcoff is this team's best all-around option at centre by a country mile.
Renney sheltered Jagr didn't he?
ReplyDeleteIn his monster 05-06 season he played 22:04 minutes a game. Facing some tough competition was inevitable. He's just that good.
Hall/Gagner/Hemsky to handle softs? A decent road line, murderous at home.
Hemsky's proven he can play the best and score against them while doing it. Taking him away from top line duties exposes the rest of your team to the other guys' best. Not a good idea.
Here's what I think I'd try to go with first off with what's there.
Hall-Horcoff-Hemsky
Blended
Penner-Gagner-Hemsky
Penner-Gagner-Eberle
Blended
Hall-Horcoff-Brule
Comrie-Cogliano-Brule
Blended
Penner-Cogliano-Brule
Jones-Fraser-Stortini
Blended
Jacques-Fraser-Comrie
Guys like Gagner, Hall, Brule, and Cogliano, really need to have good years for this team to have a shot at anything (along with Penner continuing to play well). It's just a lot of young guys that haven't fast tracked their development that need to stop hopping and start leaping.
My take:
ReplyDeleteHall - Gagner - Hemsky
MPS - (2nd line center) - Eberle
Penner - Horcoff - Brule
Cogliano - Fraser - Jones
You have a dynamic rookie on the team who can create offense - he's not going on the 4th line.
Horcoff needs to have 2 good months for me to believe he'll ever be a top-6 guy again.
for some reason i don't see Gagner tracking to be an elite 1st line C.
ReplyDeletei think he might end up a 1st line C on an average team, or a 2nd line C on a contender .. but not a 1st line C on a contender.
don't get me wrong, i think he might be a vital part of the team's future, just not on the 1st line.
or maybe he works on a team with a 1A/1B structure, with a very strong 'second' line backing him up. just not straight up dominant 1st line C.
i don't know where that "True 1st C" is going to come from. maybe it is Hall converted to Centre. maybe it is a whale hunt that doesn't require an overpay because Hall/MPS/Eberle turn the team into somewhere people actually want to play.
or maybe i'm totally wrong and Gagner really does have it in him.
but until then we have Horcoff or nothing and there's no getting around that.
Stiatic - Understand, but you have to give the Gagner the ice time in order to develop. He's shown enough where he should get that chance.
ReplyDeleteI'd love the Oilers find a deal to rid us of Horcoff, but until they do or he magically becomes the guy he was 2 years ago he can't be on the first line (or second IMO).
His only value at this point is defense.
Why do most of you keep penciling in MPS and Eberle on the 3rd line?
ReplyDeleteThey aint checkers. They either make top 6 or head south for the winter.
Unless the plan is to go with 3 scoring lines and let Horc Hemmer and Penner handle the toughs. This would leave 2 soft minutes lines and someone is going to get their brains beat out.
"Stiatic - Understand, but you have to give the Gagner the ice time in order to develop. He's shown enough where he should get that chance."
ReplyDeletei sort of see it the opposite way - that way too much has been expected of Gagner way too soon and that if anything the pressure should be taken off the guy.
he's been rushed his entire career and i'm not sure it is a good thing to continue that trend.
"His only value at this point is defense."
ReplyDeleteThat's why I like him on 2nd line btw Hall and Eberle. It lets the boy wonders dangle and create offense the way they did in the WJC and Horcoff is the defensive responsibility on the line. Rooks are going to make some defensive mistakes. Horcoff can be there to clean up the mess, win the timely faceoffs and chip in the odd one timer from the slot.
I don't like any scenario with Gagner and Eberle on the same line. Too small to match up favorably night after night. I like Gagner's playmaking between good size wingers who can shoot (i.e. Penner and Hemsky).
Everyone seems to forget how young Gagner is. He may have it in him to be the #1 center in time.
ReplyDeleteSpezza's 20-21 yr old season he scored 55 pts.
To me that doesn't seem like an unreasonable total for Gagner in this, his 20-21 yr old, season.
"Shawn Horcoff is this team's best all-around option at centre by a country mile."
ReplyDeleteThen he should have no problem chipping in some offense on third line. 40 points sound fair?
"Yes, power-on-power centre playing on one of the top two lines with either Hemsky or Penner, if not both, as his wingers."
Any center on the club can play between Hemsky and Penner and come out even or better and I doubt Gagner, Cogliano or Brule would have trouble matching Horcoff'a 50-55 point offensive output either.
"Someday you'll understand that's how good coaches win hockey games this century - good players with other good players against the other team's good players."
Joel Quenneville went with Bolland over Sharp and Toews when it came to facing top opposition. I think that happened this century but I'm not a math guy.
Good coaches find roles for 18 skaters to be successful in and contribute not just 1 guy.
ReplyDeleteAny center on the club can play between Hemsky and Penner and come out even or better and I doubt Gagner, Cogliano or Brule would have trouble matching Horcoff'a 50-55 point offensive output either.
Yeah, because raw point totals tell the story. All three of the guys you mention would give up more going the other way facing the Zetterbergs of the world night after night.
Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky, as a unit, would do more to help this hockey team win games than any other line combination you can think of. Once Hall's adapted to the NHL game (could be pretty damn quick), my guess is you see the pairings of Penner-Gagner and Horcoff-Hemsky perhaps anchoring two lines that can hopefully hold their own at both ends of the rink against any sort of opposition.
Hbomb: And that's how Horcoff got away with -30. Cause he's the best, beats the rest.
ReplyDeleteYeah I know context. But it's still difficult to be worst.
Time to move on godamit. If you want to developp your players, you have to give them opportunities, while playing them WITH GOOD PLAYERS. Let Horcoff do the heavy lifting with the shitty players, it's HIS job.
fpb: Yeah, because a guy is supposed to drag around a guy we just bought out and another who belongs in the AHL and somehow succeed. That's it.
ReplyDeleteHorcoff's job is to help win hockey games by taking on and outscoring the best. To quote Robin Brownlee, anyone with a functioning brain-stem knows you aren't going to have much success pulling that gig off unless you've got some quality to play with. He's a damn fine two-way center, but he's not superman. And by throwing him to the wolves with shit for assistance isn't helping win hockey games - last season proved it.
Either play him with Horcoff and Hemsky or go find a couple other half decent wingers (Andrew Ladd would be a good start) to form a 2nd line (in terms of minutes played) that is capable of taking on the best.
Hbomb: He still sucked ass. He didn't play with them all fucking year.
ReplyDeleteI mean, sure, difficult conditions, but he still did terrible, and nothing to fucking help himself.
We shouldn't have to play him with our best players!
Brule and Cogliano should be sufficient. Or else he values jackshit, because he can't make some soft guys a bit better.
It's time you play your future, with your good players.
Sam Gagner > Shawn Horcoff.
That's what your goal is, that's what last year showed (Partially), and that's what you should want this year.
FPB
ReplyDeleteSo who in that lineup is going to get the puck out of the corner?
Who is going to win the faceoffs and kill the penalties? When the other team takes the puck away, who is going to get it back?
By the way, the CFL is more like the SEL than the AHL, and people in the west love it. The CFL is totally different than the NFL, several former NFL players come to the CFL and fail, it is a different game with different strategies and different skill sets.
Not sure why you live in Montreal, love the habs and yet cheer for the Oilers and post a few times per day on the Oilersblog here. Makes a lot more sense to cheer for your home town team in both the NHL and the CFL! On average I would bet most CFL games are far more entertaining than most NFL games. Must be a generation gap thing. When I was growing up we had basic cable, no internet, only two NFL games per Sunday. Living in Edmonton you mostly got the 49ers who I hated, or the Seahawks who I grew to modestly like but they always sucked. Now i can watch the NFL 6 games per Sunday plus but personally prefer the oddball rules of the CFL.
Oilersfan: Maybe it's more wild, or has more variety, but the players are still of lesser quality. It's when i see stuff like a 9 yds punt, or half the QB's of the league who couldn't hit the side of a barn 15 yds away that gets me off the game.
ReplyDeleteAnd then you see Manning throwing a 60 yard bomb spot in the hands.
So who in that lineup is going to get the puck out of the corner?
ReplyDeleteTaylor Hall
Who is going to win the faceoffs and kill the penalties?
Taylor Hall
When the other team takes the puck away, who is going to get it back?
Taylor Hall
Have you not been following the blogosphere? Taylor Hall is here and everything will be perfect!
NAME POS TEAM NUM GP QUALCOMP QUALTEAM
ReplyDeleteJOELWARD RW NSH 29 71 0.099 -0.290
13 G 21 P 34 PTS -5
SHAWN HORCOFF C EDM 10 0.068 -0.098
13 G 23 P 36 PTS -29
Back on the Horcoff topic.
One had 2,50 TOI/60 on the PP and the othe 1,09, don't think i need to specify who and who.
Thing is, Ward had a Piano tied to his ass and still did dandy. He changed his fate. Horcoff didn't.
half the QB's of the league who couldn't hit the side of a barn 15 yds away that gets me off the game.
ReplyDeleteAnd then you see Manning throwing a 60 yard bomb spot in the hands.
Manning works with a ball that is much easier to throw - its the one part of the game that I would like to see the CFL change.
FPB
ReplyDeleteLots of good kickers in the CFL. One of my issues is the salary cap and rosters are so small sometimes they have one kicker for all three positions (punting, placekicking, field goals), whereas in the NFL they usually have at least two kickers. The small rosters are what really gives it the bush league feel, imo.
Lots of good quarterbacks, too. No NFL qb ever threw a bad pass or got picked off? Hmm, most games I see have two touchdown the entire game. In the cfl it is common to see 35-32 games with one TD per team in the final 3 minutes.
To make it more interesting for yourself, gamble $10 per game. Montreal is somewhat boring because they win so much, especially against the other easter teams. Watch the Esks and Stamps play, find someone to bet $10 on the Stamps, you bet it on the Esks, I bet you will find it very entertaining. One of the reasons I don't like the NFL is that I have nobody to cheer for.
Back to the Oilers, there is no doubt the bottom six needs some physical players who can kill penalties. They have room for a third line center who can win faceoffs and kill penalties, and who can maybe fight sometimes. They could also use an enforcer, and possibly a winger with speed who can kill penalties and fight, but not be an enforcer, a young Ethan Moreau.
So three players up front to be found either via trade or UFA. The prelockout Oilers had the best third line in the league for years. Marchant, Grier, Moreau. Throw Rem Murray in there sometimes. Or later, Reasoner, Moreau, Pisani.
It seems to me right now, the Oil could put up a decent top two lines and a good fourth line, but only have Cogliano as a possible third line winger to go with no center and no other winger. It will be interesting to see who the Oilers target for those two spots. I would like Raffi Torres . Someone on Oilers nation says he is a cokehead, anyone here know if that is true??
Would Chicago give us Reasoner for a 6th rounder next year while we wait for Vandevelde to get ready in a year??
No one seems to be talking about the real issue here:
ReplyDeleteThe team will not have 4 of its 6 top PKers at F next year... and the PK was already awful. Do we want to see Gagner, Cogliano, MPS, Hall and Eberle out there killing penalties THIS YEAR?
I'm going to be having nightmares about this until something is done.
We should pick up a couple old Red Deer Rebels:
ReplyDeleteAaron Asham and Colby Armstrong.
Gonadsgo: If they do worst than this year, well l'l be one astonished man.
ReplyDeleteStop fucking panicking about ''oh damn we lost our guys who totally sucked at being defensive''
they weren't good at it, it's damn time we try something else, and i'd be damned if the kids did worst.
On average I would bet most CFL games are far more entertaining than most NFL games.
ReplyDeleteYou would lose that bet.
After seeing the pre-free agent outlook, I guess Lowetide begins the 2010-11 draft countdown pretty quick because no matter what the rose-colored glasses round here calls these lines, soft parade is still soft parade.
ReplyDeleteflamingpavelbure: you seem a tad out of touch with reality. Rookies who are capable of coming in and doing the heavy lifting defensively are exceedingly rare. Relying on the young players to kill penalties and play well defensively is a recipe for disaster. Not only would you be damned, but the team as well. It takes some experience for most players to learn that part of the game.
ReplyDelete@ gonadsgo
ReplyDeleteThoresen had the highest +/- in the KHL last season while ending up 5th in scoring.
Thoresen was tied for 5th in playoff points while playing 7 games less that two players above him. He took 1/4 of the teams faceoffs during the playoffs with a 57% success ratio.
Philadelphia put him on waivers; he will cost us no assets to obtain. And he will cost less than a million for the season.
As far as the size / toughness thing goes, Peckham has a very good resume. And is at the age where he should be our #7 defenseman at worst.
And if we need a 14th forward as our tough guy, some guy named Steve MacIntyre would be extremely happy with a league minimum one-way contract. He was only -2 in limited minutes over 22 games playing with Edmonton last season...
Magnus: Yeah but our ''Experienced guys'' still sucked.
ReplyDeleteMy point is not ''Rookies are the best way to go'' it's more of like ''Not all rookies are completly oblivious to defense'' and ''They can't do worse, it's just not possible, you can't be worse than dead last''
Gord: Okay for Thoreson. Macintyre can go to hell. What's the passion with goons? They just can't play hockey! It's like JFJ but worse! You handicap a whole line, just for a guy who in the end changes absolutely NOTHING
And if we need a 14th forward as our tough guy, some guy named Steve MacIntyre would be extremely happy with a league minimum one-way contract. He was only -2 in limited minutes over 22 games playing with Edmonton [edit: and Florida] last season...
ReplyDeleteI'll say limited minutes. MacIntyre played 63 minutes all year and went -3. In other words he played one game and his team got whupped by three. No thanks.
I agree with the other 4,836 commenters who have Jones-Fraser-Stortini as the 4th line. They'll be pretty solid is my guess.
I like the idea of re-signing Comrie because both he and Horc would be capable of playing on
ReplyDeletethe 1st 2nd or 3rd lines and could spell each other situationaly and compete for a top six spot when needed while Gagner would hold a spot on either the 1st or 2nd line all season.
penner horc hemsky
Hall gagner rookie
xxx comrie brule
jones fraser stortini
For rookies to have success they have to be put in a situation where success is possible,
I think Hall is basically guaranteed a spot in the top 6 so along with him their is room for
one more rookie as top 6 winger. xxx spot could be Cogliano but I'd rather see the experienced physical LW LT mentioned...
My question is; besides Hall, is there room for more than one of MPS (LW) Eberle (RW) and
Omark(LW) up front? Some people mentioned MPS as a bottom 6 possiblity because of his
seasons in the SEL, but is that the right spot for him developmentally?
This could all be blasted to hell by Monday but right now I say Hall + one of three rookies
make the club and the other two head south. All 4 get a top six role with top six minutes.
I don't see any point in bringing back Comrie unless it's to help the kids pull some celebrity tail and now that I think about it that makes a Hall of a lot of sense;)
ReplyDeleteSeriously, though, he can probably still help a team but the way we're laid out I don't see a spot for him.
Let's say that Jones-Fraser-Stortini is the 4th line and that Hall's the first kid of him and MPS and Eberle that get to stay.
Hall-10-83 - the last two guys can hang against anyone and Hall gives 83 a goal scorer to pass to.
27-89-67 - this trio stays together.
One of MPS or Eberle plays on the third line and the other linemates are a vet RH pivot and either a LW or RW -- MPS and Eberle are one of each, true?
So, where in this scnario is there room for either of Comrie or Ryan Stone for that matter?
The problem with the Oilers is trying to decide who matches up or who Can match up. If this is the year that the 89-67 combo can play secondary toughs then maybe you go with a sheltered line of MPS-Comrie-Eberle and Stone's the extra forward who works his nuts off in practice.
But if you don't trust my top two lines to match then you need two vets to play on a matching line.
Then again maybe we play all three rookies and we aren't strong on D and we burn another year of 10-27-83 and get another top 10 pick in 2011.
"On Friday night... [Hall] was at a hotel rooftop party in Beverly Hills, hanging out with... Hilary Duff... Mike Comrie...40 members of his own family...And umpteen members of his new Oiler family, including the scouts"
ReplyDeleteBrick Midnight madness. Comrie's sure know how to market themselves. Think we see him for one more year.
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ReplyDeleteThe Hamilton Tiger Katz. What's not to like?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of hall with horc and Hemmer but I still like Brule on the 3rd line to push the kids that do make it....it's just good rebuilding strategy.
ReplyDeleteWhat about Penner Gagner Eberle?
Penner and Eberle pot a lot of their goals in tight which is where Gagner's playmaking making ability really shines.
If we can acquire a bonafide defensive 3c like Cullen, Madden, Malhotra or maybe even Halpern I can live without Comrie; who's not the best away from the puck but he is a veteran with enough versatility to slot in anywhere which makes him preferable to other centers on the UFA market
Vince,
ReplyDeleteI don't know if having room for the rookies is important. I would like to see the rookies force their way onto the starting roster. I think Hall is there, because I'm assuming he would have to return to Junior otherwise.
If we went with guys we have signed, and don't sign anyone we could sign, the cast looks like this:
HALL HORC HEMS
PENN GAGN ____
COGL ____ BRUL
JONE FRAS STOR
JACQ
Waiting in the wings:
PAAJ EBER
OMAR VAND
Backstage:
REDD O'MAR
It would be nice to fill those spots filled, but it's also tough to spend assets when we might be replacing the player in two months with a rook.
Still with Eberle and Omark as two of the challengers, we have way too many waterbugs.
And while Brule could play RW, I'd rather not have a 15 goal guy there. I'm not sure that's the best use of Gagner's talents. I'd like to see a better finisher there and preferably a little more size. Although, playing Penner on the other side allows a certain amount of smurfiness that otherwise would be risky. And giving Brule 2nd line time makes him better trade bait.
And if we sign Comrie and keep Brule and Cogs, we have a pretty tiny 3rd line, even if Brule is playing 2RW.
Cogs doesn't really make sense on this team.
And damn, we need some PKers.
Spoiler,
ReplyDeleteI think we agree more than we disagree.
Since the Tambo has said the word "rebuild" over and over I think there's definitely going to be more then one rookie in the lineup next year. Ideally I think there should be two, both in the top six...limiting the "waterbugs" in the bottom six to the veteran Comrie and an aggressive forechecker in Brule, (hopefully combined with true third line LW) both of whom can easily transition to the top six if required.
Being in full rebuild mode with four offensive rookies knocking on the door I think a top 6 "finisher" with size is low on the UFA radar after 2 (or 3) D and bottom 6 LW.
and I completely agree there is no spot for Cogs, he's got to realize his skills set says "winger" and focus on that no matter wherever he ends up.
If the team has learned anything from 2008, only one of Omark, Eberle and MPS will make the team out of camp. I think the team suspect that the development of Gagner, Cogs and Nilsson was hurt by bringing them in together and giving them a bit of a free pass defensively as they learned the ropes of the big leagues. They all knew that no matter how badly they played the worst that would happen is that they'd sit a game or two. They weren't going to get sent down and there was no one in Springfield pushing for their jobs.
ReplyDeleteIf only one of Omark, Eberle and MPS make the team, the guy who makes it knows that he has to work his ass off every shift of every game because there are two guys ready willing and able to take his place. The two guys in OKC know that they have to play hard every night to be guy that gets the next call.
I'm hoping that these guys are the core of a team that wins mulitple Stanley Cups, but they should only make the team because they ARE better than someone else on the roster, not because they probably will be better than someone else on the roster.
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ReplyDeleteMarc,
ReplyDeleteYou're bang on here. The problem in 08-09 that was even worse in 09-10 was the glut of potential (not proven) top 6'ers who had no hope of succeeding further down the lineup.
These mistakes CANNOT be repeated...a failed top 6'er does not a bottom 6'er make.
Dennis - Comrie plays w/ 89-67 and 27 drops down to the 3rd line, pushing one of the kids down to the AHL.
ReplyDeletePenner's size is better used on the 1st or 3rd line.
"Let's say that Jones-Fraser-Stortini is the 4th line"
ReplyDeleteLet's not.
Top-6
Hall-Horcoff-Hemsky
Penner-Gagner-Brule
(many seem to mostly, despite other disagreements, think this makes sense)
Why guarantee bottom six jobs to guys like Jones and Stortini? I know that Stortini plays solid hockey (which is why I keep him at all), but we need a better third line than a lot of possibilities being thrown out. I'd like to see Stortini as #13 in the forward group. This means a couple signings and a trade for the third line (which is where you slot Comrie), so you've gotta get that done.
The main benefit of Comrie is he's not just another 3rd line winger. He's a former center who can play anywhere from line 1-4 and is excellent on the PP.
"If we can acquire a bonafide defensive 3c like Cullen, Madden, Malhotra or maybe even Halpern I can live without Comrie; who's not the best away from the puck but he is a veteran with enough versatility to slot in anywhere which makes him preferable to other centers on the UFA market"
ReplyDeletewe're not going to be able to sign Madden or Malholtra. dunno about Cullen.
this is why they'll re-sign Comrie. he can play top 6 C or he can play 3rd line C and not be a liability in either spot.
after Horcoff and Gagner, he's the best pivot they're likely to get right now without an overpay.
so you keep him and he slots in after Horcoff and Gagner, can fill in for them on a short term basis if necessary while filling a 3rd line role for a third line paycheck.
i do agree that you can't put both Eberle and MPS on the 3rd line.
could go with:
Penner-Horcoff-Hemsky
Hall-Gagner-Brule
Jones-Comrie-Stone
JFJ-Fraser-Stortini
and have MPS and Eberle competing with Jones and Brule/Stone for spots and being first call-ups for injury.
this 3rd line would work with Stone and Jones using a little size on the boards to tie up puck battles and Comrie to collect the garbage that squirts out. Comrie is pretty opportunistic and i think he'd fill that role well.
Comrie's not a C anymore. He's an LW. You need a big(ger) 3 line C. You can get one via trade.
ReplyDeleteand is excellent on the PP
ReplyDeleteOoh no. You had to tick quain off didn't you...
Anyone putting Penner on the 3rd line needs their head examined. Until Hall or MPS actually supplants him as the best LW on the squad, he's going to be our starter.
ReplyDeletegonadsgo, you're right - the PK needs help.
ReplyDeletefpv, sure if a rookie was 6'2, worked his tail off every shift and played rock solid PK in junior and has good hockey sense he would make a good PKer but do you really want Taylor Hall blocking shots?
You need to build lines around the special teams - because if you don't every time there's a PP or a PK, then you disrupt your lines when you go back to evens.
So who's on the PK?
1: Horcoff,
2:
ummm....
apparently Colin Fraser played an average of 13 seconds SHTOI last year.
Cogliano can't play defense in his own zone 5v5, never mind 5v4
Oh crap. O'Marra, Hartikainen might make sense if they made the team. Penner played decently on PK, but that's a lot of time for Penner to take (both PP and PK).
So who's on PK?
1: Horcoff, Fraser
2: Penner, Brule
PvP: Cogliano - Horcoff - Hemsky
2: Penner - Hall - Brule
3: MPS - Gagner - Eberle
4: Jones - Fraser - Stortini
Let Horcoff do the heavy lifting with the shitty players, it's HIS job.
ReplyDeleteOn what fucking planet has that ever been his job? They're paying him a $5.5M cap hit to get murdered every night? I think not. If he were getting $2M, I might agree with you, but with what we're paying him, we have to use him at both ends of the ice. As long as his shoulder doesn't fall off again, he can get the job done, I assure you.
Thing is, Ward had a Piano tied to his ass and still did dandy. He changed his fate. Horcoff didn't.
a) Ward's piano was probably not as heavy (you can't compare raw numbers of QC/QT against each other, only within teams; I'd look myself but I long ago forgot how to use Vic's scripts), and b) Horcoff played on one shoulder most of the year while taking a ton of own-zone draws. Yeah, Ward saw a similar distribution, but he wasn't taking the draws, and I'm betting his centre had two working shoulders and thus won more (I see a lot of Preds C's with 50+% numbers).
A healthy Horcoff with healthy, non-shitty linemates could put up a point per game as recently as 2008, the last time both circumstances occurred for a significant length of time. Why think he won't do it again? He'll only be 32 on opening night: he's not that old yet.
Vandemeer:
ReplyDeleteCorsi ON: 4.98 (middle of the pack)
Rel Corsi: 0.2 (a little lower)
His qual comp, qual team, and zonestart make it look to me like he saw fairly easy minutes, consistent with being a third pairing D-man.
He's not a terrible D-man, just overpriced, as everyone knows.
If he plays reasonably well, maybe the Oil can get him to sign a home town discount deal for the next couple of seasons.
I'd rather have him than Strudwick, anyway. Although we'll see how Vandermeer fairs playing with our unbalanced lineup.
27-89-67 - this trio stays together.
ReplyDeleteThe trio that was together until Brule went down near the end was 27-13-67. They played not too badly, either.
apparently Colin Fraser played an average of 13 seconds SHTOI last year.
Nuh-uh, Fraser averaged 1:26 last year, 2:57 the year before (the arrival of Madden changed his job description, but he was stil la regular on the PK)
Nilsson has had a three year contract for 1.5 mill, 2.0 mill, 2.5 mill for a cap hit of 2 million per year. He is under 26 so his buyout is only one third
ReplyDelete2010/2011 2011/2012
1 Salary Due 2.5 (actual salary for 2010/2011) 0
2 Cap Hit 2 (average salary over his three year deal) 0
3 Buyout Amount 0.825 (one third of 2.5 million) 0
4 Buyout Payment Per Year 0.42 (buyout is spread evenly over twice the remaining years) 0.42
5 Buyout Savings (1-4) 2.5 - 0.42 = 2.08 0 - 0.42 = -0.42
6 Buyout Cap Hit (2-5) 2 - 2.08 = -0.08 0 - -0.42 = 0.42