Among the news items we're waiting to see in the next while are the signing of Magnus Paarjarvi-Svensson, any news on Riley Nash, the final rosters for the World Hockey Championships (MPS may make the team and that would be a big deal) and any crack in the armour from Stu (Magnificent Bastard) MacGregor in regard to Nash/Seguin.
Since none of those stories have moved on the wire, I offer this about Chris Vande Velde and request that you post any breaking news in this thread today.
I'd definitely take Seguin over Nash.
ReplyDeleteI'm starting to have the feeling that who we draft will fluctuate based on what we do trade wise leading into the draft. Souray will net us something, just a matter of what. Yes we'll be taking back salary. I wonder how much tambellini will do leading into draft weekend. As much as i would love him to do a lot, I have a feeling that like last year we'll be seeing a low end roster player dealt for a 5th rd pick.
ReplyDeleteI've stumped for this guy for the last year, but if Tambellini can somehow swing a deal to the Rags for Dubinsky or Callahan, then I'm happy.
Is it possible the Oilers are whale hunting for a draft pick?
ReplyDeleteI want Seguin because i am concerned about Halls health I think he is prone to too many head shots and that is only going to get worse.
Let's assume that the Bruins make it to the Conference final and lose.
ReplyDeleteDoes that make Chiarelli more or less likely to try to "go for it" next year with Bergeron and Chara both going into their last year.
Everyone talks about how tough it is to win a cup.
Getting that close has the ability to make a GM make some short term decisions.
Thoughts?
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ReplyDeletePhiladelphia signed G Sergei Bobrovsky a few days ago. I brought him up a few times in the past and I think its another opportunity missed.
ReplyDeleteI think agents representing goalies would look at Edmonton and the depth chart here and think realize this is one of the top destinations for his client.
We have a 37 year old goalie coming off major surgery that only played 18 games last year and then two sieves in JDD and DD. Other than that the only goalie in the pipe is a junior player.
Any goalie coming in could have been #2 by October and #1 as soon as Khabibulin gets injured.
This is the 2nd year in a row that Tambellini has lost on the goalie market even though he held all the cards.
I shouldn't be surprised though at Tambellini's failure to capitalize on the free agent market when he can't even sign his own picks like Nash and Lander. My guess is the young Finn will slip through the cracks as well (Olczyk is still waiting for his copy of the CBA).
Traktor,
ReplyDeleteNo movement on Tambellini in regards to a starter in OKC is maddening.
Perhaps he's waiting for July 1 and is looking at current AHL or marginal NHLers coming off contracts.
If anyone is still having problems with the security popup that IE gives you on these comments pages, there is a nice video that I stumbled on to here that shows you how to stop it.
ReplyDelete@Woodguy...that's what the Oilers need to keep an eye on, teams that are loaded with talent and get oh so close to the championship and just fall short. the Bruins are a good example, and should they fall short this year, i good guess is that for the right player, they would move their second 1st round pick, #17. i'd like to see the Oilers try to snag that pick, but i bet a lot of teams are eyeballing that one!
ReplyDeleteTraktor:
ReplyDelete1) Tambellini can't sign Nash or Lander?
Seems that Riley Nash has had his mind made up for quite some time, and his reasons probably have a lot to do with the state of the organization that Tambellini had little to do with. As for Lander....bwaaa? What's the rush? Are you making inferences based on couple of cryptic quotes in the Swedish press?
2) I'm curious to know what you think the Flyers have in their system that makes you think that's any less attractive an option than here? Philadelphia has long been where goalies go to die.
Seems that Riley Nash has had his mind made up for quite some time, and his reasons probably have a lot to do with the state of the organization that Tambellini had little to do with
ReplyDeleteStauffer has intimated that Nash would sign if they guaranteed him a spot on the NHL roster.
Woodguy:
ReplyDeleteFantastic. Based on doing what? Barely being a PPG player at Cornell? I love the sense of entitlement of these guys. At least Omark chose to man-up.
Could he be trying to force the Oilers hands because he knows they won't do that?
If he's serious, that's ridiculous, and quite frankly, good riddance. I don't want a little bitch like that on my hockey team. Come to camp and fucking earn it.
Moose,
ReplyDeletetell us how you really feel.
Or, try not to jump to conclusions based on second hand information of a 'intimated' variety (not that I am dissing what you are passing on Woodguy). Let's just wait for actual information from a less biased source than Stauffer's tweets.
Dug:
ReplyDeleteI don't think Boston even knows where their 1st rounder is going to be at this point. Didn't they change the draft order process among playoff teams to reflect their final outcomes? Ex: if 8th ranked team makes it to the conference finals, they're likely picking 27th.
Please stop me if I'm wrong here, but I think this came into effect for the 06-07 season.
Bar Qu,
ReplyDeleteOh, shit...was that out loud?
No, that's why I prefaced that comment with "If he's serious".
Sorry moose, I missed the nuance.
ReplyDeleteI agree that it seems like a lot of entitlement, but he also seems like he would be a better option to play third line centre than Cogs.
Fantastic. Based on doing what? Barely being a PPG player at Cornell? I love the sense of entitlement of these guys. At least Omark chose to man-up.
ReplyDeleteNot sure why you think it's a sense of entitlement. Buddy is a year off finishing a degree and re-entering the draft/becoming a FA. It seems perfectly reasonable to me for him to say, "You know what? I'm not going to blow off college so I can play for a terrible farm team and make $50K... they can either make it worth my time or I'll just wait another year.
It's not entitlement, it's a guy recognizing his options and realizing he has a lot less to lose this year than the Oilers do... and a lot more to gain by putting the screws to the Oilers.
Sorry Quain. If it's true that he wants a guarantee he's on the pro team then he's entitled.
ReplyDeleteHe should have to earn his way on as much as anyone.
If they cave and let him be an NHLer he's going to get eaten alive and become another prospect turned into porridge.
That said, I suspect that if he has a demand it's that he is promised the chance of getting serious consideration for the pro team if his camp performance warrants it.
Riley "mister options" Nash has never played high level hockey - only in the BJ junior league and soft Ivy leagues.
ReplyDeleteHaving never faced the killers who reside in major junior, and being drafted by the Oilers in round 1, etc it's fairly obvious he sees himself as being better than most of them.
But, like the hicksville local guitar superstar who leaves his small market origins for the big city, often with a brass band sendoff, the big city comes with a whole slew of issues that more often than not send these types home in a hurry.
Maybe Nash is Kesler 2.0, but odds are he simply hasn't developed himself correctly for the pros, and, it probably is the best thing if he stays in college, gets his degree, and re-enters the draft - thus keeping the ultimate reality of professional hockey failure away for another day.
Quain:
ReplyDeleteI think when you ask to be guaranteed something without proving you are a) worth it and b) have earned it, that's enititlement.
What message does that send the the 23 guys on this team who all signed their first pro-contract and came to camp knowing nothing was going to be handed to them?
What message does Tambellini send the existing players by giving in to that request?
When Sam Gagner was drafted 6th overall, you know what quote always stood out for me? He said it didn't mean anything and that all being drafted was, was an invitation to "try out". That's a hockey player.
What has Riley Nash done from a hockey standpoint to deserve a guaranteed NHL roster spot? Nobody is denying the kid is bright and talented, and certainly has the right to choose his own career path, but the longer this carries on it's becoming clear this is about him not wanting to play for the Oilers rather than some noble pursuit of an academic degree that a lot of people seem to be applauding him for. I haven't read every quote from Nash during his time at Cornell, but lately I haven't heard him say a lot of things about academics and degrees. That last interview with Guy, was heavily steeped in his "options".
I think when you ask to be guaranteed something without proving you are a) worth it and b) have earned it, that's enititlement.
ReplyDeleteIf he believes that he deserves a guaranteed spot on the team, that's entitlement. But as quain said, that may not be what this is. It might just be that he thinks going back into the draft is in his best interests unless he's guaranteed a spot on the team.
If I'm working a job, and I see a better opportunity elsewhere, I might tell my employer that I'm quitting unless he gives me a 50% raise. That doesn't mean that I think I'm worth a 50% raise - I'll leave that to my employer to decide - it's just that that's what it would take for me to deem it to be in my best interests to remain at my job.
He should have to earn his way on as much as anyone.
ReplyDeleteI don't disagree that he has to earn it, but that's a consideration the Oilers have to factor in, not Riley Nash. There's a big difference between 'being entitled' and deciding 'you have to make it worth my while.'
I like my job. You could offer me $10K more a year to work at your startup on the other side of the country and I'd likely say no, but if you offered me $50K upfront on top of that? You might get me. It doesn't mean I really think I'm worth $50K, it means I like my situation and it's going to take more than fair value to shake me out of it.
Riley Nash holds the cards and I see no reason to insult him for not playing ball. It's not his job to be a role model for the rest of the team.
He has made his list of things that would make him the happiest and if finishing university ranks below the NHL and above the AHL, well, the Oilers have a decision to make because Riley Nash made his.
Steve (and Quain):
ReplyDeleteFair enough. But Riley Nash is unemployed. He's effectively saying I'd just as soon be unemployed for another year than take your job offer. Which, again is fair. But...when he does get to field offers from 29 other teams...do you think any will be offering a guaranteed spot on the big club? No. In fact, where is there a better opportunity to make an NHL team than this 30th placed club?
Personally, I think he's being disingenuous in the way he's framing the discussions. Maybe it's simple negotiating tactics, but personally I don't think he has any interest in ever playing here.
Why not just promise him the job and then stick him in the minors?
ReplyDeleteI'm with Quain on this one. Being a 20 year old student I can sympathize with Nash's line of thinking. His status as a talented hockey player is giving him a golden ticket to a degree at a school with a great pedigree. Staying and finishing his degree could be much more beneficial and much more lucrative than playing for $50, 000 on some AHL team.
ReplyDeleteIt's not entitlement at all, it's covering his bases. Do you honestly think he has an easier go finishing 4th year courses AT CORNELL as well as playing hockey for them than going to the AHL?
If I were Tambellini, I'd be working out a handshake agreement. Work out a good contract and say "This is what's on the table if you earn the spot in camp. If you don't - go finish your degree, kick some ass and we'll keep it on the table for next year. Just give us an indication whether you will or won't sign with us so we can ship you out if you're not interested"
@doritogrande.....very true, and i was just basing it on the 2010 NHL Mock Draft rankings. yes, that second 1st rounder Boston has will probably be lower, but i have heard in the past that the Oilers would like to have a shot at getting d-man Alex Petrovic from the Red Deer Rebels around the late 1st/top of the 2nd round, and if Boston's pick falls, i could see a potential Boston/Edmonton flip of picks for their late 1st round pick and a player in return for our #31 pick at the top of the 2nd round, plus a player like Souray perhaps?
ReplyDeleteTraktor:
ReplyDeleteHilarious.
wait, isn't this what signing bonuses are for? I suspect he'd see more than 50k if he signs and plays in the A.
ReplyDeleteThe rumour.
ReplyDeleteLT: I have been disappointed that you haven't had a nightly playoff thread. It would give you an opportunity to trot out old pictures and song lyrics and it would give me an opp to vent on how much i hate all things Cuntreal and Dynasty.
ReplyDeleteLast night in particular it was fun to watch Eager and Burish giving it to Burrows.
That's apretty late night for "the fans in Newfoundland".
ReplyDeleteto the person who said omark manned up by signing a two way deal..
ReplyDeletei guess i disagree and see omark and nash doing the exact same thing.
last year omark says he'll come for a roster spot, it's not given to him, so he gets paid in russia. nash, asks for a spot, it's not given to him, so he gets paid in another way -- education with the use of a potential loophole at the end as well.
both feel they have leverage and are using it. i understand as a fan that it's frustrating, but it must also be somewhat frustrating to be drafted as a 17/18 and having your whole life pre-determined by a third party. i think that would be a tough thing in some ways.
it really makes me like undrafted college kids because they have been out in the world and had no guarantee of a hockey career but still pursued it and decided that's what they'd most like to do. plus, they're smart.
Jfry:
ReplyDeleteAll valid points, except Omark actually DID sign and decided to earn it. Maybe his success in the KHL convinced him that he could stick in the NHL without needing the guarantee. Who knows?
As for Nash, like I said before, I take issue with people who keep saying that this is about the education and degree. I call bullshit. I know it's a nice storyline and paints him as a hockey renaissance man, but I guess we'll see when the 29 bids are on the table. I suspect money will win out. I'd love to be wrong. It would be tough for any franschise to lose a first round pick for nothing, let alone a franchise starting from scratch like ours. I hope he sees the opportunity here (because there is a good one) and has enough confidence in himself to take the leap.
Based on previous comments in the 'Sphere, I don't think Nash goes back in the draft. I think he's some kind of FA after his eligibility expires in August after his 4th year.
ReplyDeleteWhoever did the legwork (Schitzo?) please clue us in. There was a player that Phoenix signed in Nash's situation who played (in the minors?) in the season between the August expiry and the June entry draft.
Also regarding entitlement or whatever. I don't think Nash's position is anything more than trying to avoid the Oilers' farm system at all costs. I have no way of knowing if his position would be the same for a less dysfunctional club. I do not blame him one bit, and the Oilers would demonstrate their dysfunctionality by giving him a spot on the big club.
Snookered.
I don't know if Nash is going to be a first rounder if he goes back into the draft. He may hold the cards but it could blow up in his face.
ReplyDeleteOn a different note, and one of insane coincidence...
ReplyDeleteMy ex-girlfriend is going to school in Sundsvall right now on a study abroad program. For those who don't know, that's the town where Timra play.
She's been my scout/spy for the past few months. She's attended games, frequents the pub where Magnus and Anton hang out, found his apartment (complete with pictures), and sent me a chat transcript of MPS trying to "pull" her friend on Facebook. It's been pretty funny.
Anyway, the other day she was teaching English to some Swedish kids (including Freddie Modin's nephew), so when she was walking around to see if the student's completed there assignments she comes across a kid doing this:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_S9kExALA9CI/S-MexObg9qI/AAAAAAAAA4s/yNXYjBr2jcM/s1600/timra.jpg
Weren't we all THIS kid at one time? Thought it was cute. Shit I still scribble down line combinations at work!
Moose, I definitely remember getting in shit during Grade 12 while me and my buddy were figuring out what lines the Oilers should roll with during the Stanley run...
ReplyDeleteGod my grammar is awful...maybe she should teach ME English.
ReplyDeleteMaybe his success in the KHL convinced him that he could stick in the NHL without needing the guarantee. Who knows?
ReplyDeleteMoose, I'm pretty sure Omark mentioned off-hand in an interview that the money was good in the KHL, and it was a step up. So he and his best buddy went there for a payday.
Basically it was primarily a way to set himself up with a pretty good headstart in life with 1 million dollars tax free in see money. After that he can come over and toil in the AHL for a year or two and try to make the NHL.
This makes perfect sense. Why play in the AHL for 50K and risk an injury essentially ending your career for a normal working wage? Better to head to the KHL for a season, get 1 million stashed away in the bank just in case, then head across the big pond to pursue the NHL dream.
Nash is doing the same thing. Why leave college to toil away on what seems to be a shitty AHL team for less than he can make heading out into the world with a Cornell degree? Better to stay in college for a year, finish up, then do whatever afterward to pursue his dream.
Both Omark and Nash have similar motivations, and that being said of course they'd sign if given a 1 way contract, as the financial security/insurance policy would be in place from the NHL pay day.
Uni:
ReplyDeleteThe difference is he's a first round pick, and will get first round bonus money. He's gonna be richer than anybody in that Cornell class by stacks.
Omark was an undersized 4th (?). It's a reasonable argument, and I'm sure it's true, but the guy ended up getting a near max ELC ($875k I think he got), and I have to think it's at least in part because he stepped up to a tougher league and kept producing.
My understanding is that on August 16, 2011 Riley Nash would become a free agent. The Oilers would receive a compensatory pick. Since Nash was picked 21st in the first round the compensation would be 21st in the second round (so 51st). So this sucks for the Oilers.
ReplyDeleteNash is hoping for a Matt Gilroy pay day, a highest bidder auction. He figures the worst that would happen is that he'd get a Blake Wheeler deal from some other NHL team. That is he'd still get first round money and bonuses even if he gives the Oilers the heave ho.
What Nash doesn't seem to grasp is that he is unlikely to get much free agent interest, unless next year he tears the NCAA apart. He is an adequate college player, developmentally stunted, and likely to be an adequate pro. He isn't, even in a bad year, a legitimate first round draft choice and he has proven that at Cornell. Now he has added to his hockey resume some serious attitude problems.
Maybe he has a monster year next year and cashes in big time. But the more likely outcome of his current approach is that the Oilers tell him to go piss on a spark plug. Then he has another mediocre year in a below average college program and ends up never having an NHL career.
What I am unclear about is whether or not the Oilers could even offer him a one way ELC, as say Wheeler got in Boston and Gilroy got in New York? Anybody know for sure?
Maybe his success in the KHL convinced him that he could stick in the NHL without needing the guarantee. Who knows?
ReplyDeleteOr maybe his team folded and he realised that the KHL might not provide the assured steady income he had once thought?
linnaeus
ReplyDeleteThanks for the info - I wasn't referring to Gilroy. Again, I think that the logic for Nash is negative, not positive. Instead of hoping for a big payday as you suggest, I think he may simply want to avoid ending up wasting away in the Oilers' farm system.
Few graduate to have pro careers here anymore.
As Louise says - 'smart, smart buggers'.
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ReplyDeleteSomething else I want to get off my chest is when did HNIC become Hockey Night In Body Language and Fashion?
ReplyDeleteIt's been getting on my nerves more and more with the suit talk -- oh look these guys wear suits to games -- but that mimbo Hrudey took it to a new level when he wanted clips of how Count Luongo strode when he walked into the building in G1 and 2.
And now Maclean's getting into the act as well.
Hey I like hockey as much as the next fellow and was as choked and excited as everyone else when we won the gold so I buy in to just how much hockey means to our country.
But the level of fanaticism and the mining of new narratives has reached the levels of Entertainment Tonight.
Wondering what club Lindsay Lohan got drunk in has been replaced by just what it means when Luongo's leaning to the left more than the right.
And did his pants wrinkle when doing so???!!!
TSN really is the place to be for hockey nowadays. Sad, but true.
ReplyDeleteI do enjoy listening to Milbury go off about things he has absolutely no clue about (most things, I think). Last night he was showing clips of Niemis' sprawling saves and called them lucky bounces. Hrudey probably would have facepalmed beside him but he might have ruined his makeup.
The difference is he's a first round pick, and will get first round bonus money. He's gonna be richer than anybody in that Cornell class by stacks.
ReplyDeleteYeah, but only if he makes the NHL club. He's not going to get that NHL bonus money playing in Oklahoma. A few people here have posted the odds of players in various rounds of the draft having an actual NHL career and IIRC that number is only around 50% for first rounders. That's a pretty good chance, but it's far from a guarantee. On the other hand, he can finish up his education now, and if hockey doesn't pan out he's got something to fall back on. Or he can play in the A for a couple of years and then move on from hockey. Or he can have a long NHL career and make ridiculous stacks of money. The NHL will still be around when he graduates, and if he doesn't make it, having that degree and the Cornell connections is a pretty good Plan B. Seriously, I don't know why so many people have a tough time with this. The guy isn't going to school one more year to "find himself". He'll still be able to play hockey when he graduates, I'm sure, and the Oilers will still suck next year whether he's signed or not.
Also while admitting that I've been watching a lot of hoops sprinkled with some baseball and thus knowing I may have missed some good work on the hockey telecasts I shudder to think that the best thing i've seen so far was the 2nd intermission of G3 in the Cuntreal/pens series when - no joke - Don Cherry pretty much took the reins and interviewed Dick Irvin.
ReplyDeleteNow this pains me to admit considering I grew up with Irvin bellowing "great save by Roy" pretty much anytime a shot went on goal and maybe I liked the int so much because a bemused Irvin commented on how things had changed in Scabs country to the point where now fans take to the streets to celebrate playoff round victories -- which was a point i made over on Ty's site the day about the Caps were vanquished -- but moreso I think it hits the heart of the matter of how far the level of reporting has fallen.
And it's a trend that follows all networks because two nights ago I made the mistake of leaving on TSN2 after the Lakers game only to catch the rebroadcasting of an earlier Sportsdesk to hear that tranny Hedger calling the Wings D-Triot and that meathead Dutch calling Cuntreal "The Habbies."
No one calls them that and no one should.
Maybe I'm getting old and contrary but it appears that Pierre macGuire was just the tip of the iceberg.
Speaking of that did you hear how Clarke MacCarthur cured two cases of cancer and time-travelled during the World Junior championships in 2005?
Speaking of that did you hear how Clarke MacCarthur cured two cases of cancer and time-travelled during the World Junior championships in 2005?
ReplyDeleteAnd the suits he wore were made of the finest fibres in all the land!
despisethesun:
ReplyDeleteI was talking about a signing bonus, not performance bonuses. Unless I'm totally off-base, and someone with cap knowledge please correct me if I am, you keep that money whether you play in the NHL or not. At least thats the way it works in every other sport I know.
All that innuendo about Omark last year. All wrong.
ReplyDeleteAll the innuendo about Nash this year. Probably all wrong.
He'll have made enough money off of his pro contracts, that he could always easily go back and pay to finish his degree at a later time if he so wished. And if he the typically soft degree that a lot of hockey players get, being a pro player in Europe or elsewhere might not be a bad way to make a living if he's an NHL bust.
ReplyDeleteHey Riley Nash - put on your tap shoes for the folks in Edmonton - don't you know that the honor of having your "rights" purchased by the Edmonton Oilers should make you crack a big wide grin and dance for the crowd. Yeah we know the Oilers never paid you anything for your "rights" and the crowd could care less about you unless you amuse them - but dammit boy - get up there and dance!!
ReplyDeleteRead that on as many levels as you would like...
That's Asiaoil going all Jean-Marc Bosman on us.
ReplyDeleteFuck it, let's just go back to the old territorial draft days.