The Oilers have to improve up the middle. I'm fine with Shawn Horcoff and Sam Gagner at center, but with a potentially elite talent like Seguin coming in the club should be set for many years. A 1-2 combination of Seguin-Gagner should allow the Oilers to have (among) the deepest talent at C into the future. Getting Seguin sets up the position for a long time. Note: I understand this is a split vote, and would also be just fine with Taylor Hall.
Next up, the blue. I mentioned in the previous thread that the Whitney-Gilbert pairing is fine, but the club could really improve if there was another pairing of close to equal quality. Ladislav Smid is the strongest candidate left on the roster for the second pairing and we have Sheldon Souray as an asset who can be moved.
I'm not certain how many teams will be interested in Souray. Sather is a complete loose cannon so including the Rangers is easy, but after that the General Managers seem less crazy. So we'll deal with the Rangers since it makes so much sense and Michal Rozsival isn't the worst option for a Smid partner. He has two years left at $5M, which means the Oilers save $400,000 each of the next two seasons.
This makes my top 4D Whitney-Gilbert and Smid-Rozsival. After that we have Peckham and the kids below him, so this would be a time to talk about bargain level free agents. I'd try to sign Freddy Meyer from the Islanders. He's 29, coming off a season in which his numbers are excellent compared to team (especially Zone Start vs. Corsi) and isn't likely to cost much more than $1M a year. Remember, we're not in the Hamhuis/Michalek sweepstakes here, we're just trying to back up the depth chart and make sure the kids earn NHL jobs. I'd also sign Aaron Johnson as a depth defender, allowing the coach (probably Renney) to choose between Peckham and Johnson on nights when everyone is healthy. I'll add up the numbers later, but for now it is a top 7D of Gilbert-Whitney; Smid-Rozsival; Peckham-Meyer and Johnson.
Now, to the goalie. I target Ottawa, for several reasons. First, they have dire cap problems and even though the Oilers are close to the cap we've already established a willingness to send as much as 7M to the minors if required. The Senators would like to bring Volchenkov back and may also pursue Z Michalek from the Coyotes. So, they need money. They also have a goaltender in the doghouse (Leclaire 3.8M, UFA next summer) so might be convinced to take on Khabibulin's contract in exchange if they can gain some cap room. Plus, we know they liked Cogliano a year ago so there might be a deal to make.
Would Murray make a Khabibulin/Cogliano for LeClaire/2nd rd pick deal? I think he would. Cogliano could grab one of the wing spots, perhaps replacing Cullen's 16 goals next season for 1.45M (my estimate). Now, we've added a draft pick, gotten rid of Khabibulin's contract and can send LeClaire's 3.8M contract to the minors for next season. Ottawa takes on Khabibulin's contract but they also get a solid young forward whose motor never quits. Are we okay with this? If we're overpaying but the Sens are taking on the extra years of Habby's contract. If we're underpaying lets make it a 3rd rd pick this year or a 2 next summer. Good?
Now the G depth chart is JDD/DD, but I'm not at all happy with it. Although the Oilers aren't going to contend for the Stanley any time soon, nothing cripples a hockey team like a crappy goaltender. If your young defenseman are playing without confidence because the G isn't very good, pretty soon your young defensemen aren't very good either. It's like being a position player in baseball, playing your ass off all day and then watching the closer come in and blow up the game on you.
So, I solve the goalie situation by trading for (drum roll please) Jason LaBarbara. He's signed for $1M and can stop pucks (.928 in Phoenix) for a team with a mammoth number of free agents at D and F. I'll offer JDD or Nilsson, and lets say the Coyotes decide on Nilsson (hey, he's a backup goalie folks). We then send JDD somewhere for a mid-round pick (we'll say a late 3rd). Or, if you're not satisfied we've given up enough I could be talked into including a draft pick outside the first three rounds. Note: I've been following LaBarbara since Tyler mentioned him and at this point I don't know why he hasn't gotten a chance to start. He looks like this generation's Thomas/Roloson, no?
Now: center. I've already told you that my team is selecting Seguin, and now I'll tell you we're sending him back to junior. I think Seguin is more like Trottier or Sakic, a player who could use another season in junior to dominate the competition. So we're going to address center once again through free agency, this time signing Jim Slater from Atlanta. He's in his late 20's, doesn't make a whole bunch and is good in the faceoff circle. He's also a solid PK option as well.
I try to deal Moreau and O'Sullivan but there are no takers. So, my roster is complete. Here are my moves:
- Drafted Seguin and McIlrath
- Traded Souray to the crazy old man for Rozsival
- Signed Freddy Meyer (1M) and Aaron Johnson (.700M)
- Traded Khabibulin and Cogliano to OTT for LeClaire and a 2nd rd pick in 2010
- Traded Nilsson to PHX for LaBarbara.
- Traded JDD for a late 3rd rd pick.
- Sign C Jim Slater for 1M times 2 years.
- G: LaBarbara (1M); Dubnyk (.800M)
- D: Rozsival (5M); Gilbert (4M); Whitney (4M); Smid (1.3M); Meyer (1M); A Johnson (.700M); Peckham (.700M)
- C: Horcoff (5.5M); Gagner (3M); Slater (1M); Pouliot (.850M)
- L: Penner (4.25M); O'Sullivan (2.925M); Jones (.975M); Comrie (1.1M); Potulny (1M)
- R: Hemsky (4.1M); Brule (2.25M); Stone (.900M); Eberle (1.187M); Stortini (.700M)
- Total Players: 23
- Cap Hit: $48,237,00 (I counted it twice).
- G: LeClaire (3.8M)
- D: Alex Plante (1.075M); Jeff Petry (1M); Taylor Chorney (.942M); Johan Motin (.875M)
- C: Chris Vande Velde (.850M), Milan Kytnar (.563M)
- L: Linus Omark (.875M); Moreau (2M)
Rozsival - he flat out stinks.
ReplyDeleteTry watching him for a season, it's chinese water torture.
Compared to Rozsival(or Redden for that matter), Souray is Bobby Orr.
Now that i think about their injuries, that's not as big a stretch as first imagined.
LT: What do you expect in return of O'sullivan?
ReplyDeleteAs for Mcilrath i'm not a fan of getting big one way Dmans in the first round.
These boys usually take up to 23-25 years old to devellop, and then we get to see them 2-3 years before they go UFA. (If we do bring him up earlier, it's a painful process).
hunter: Do you see anyone else out there that will take on that contract? With his injury history? Rozsival is healthy and is an NHL defenseman, after that I don't think one can be too picky when shopping Mr. Fix-it.
ReplyDeleteFPB: I'm not certain what O'Sullivan's value would be. Probably a little more than Nilsson, but then again Nilsson is less expensive by almost 1M.
The Strudwick post can simply be called Ventilator Blues.
ReplyDeleteAnd doesn't require any further text.
Also, if you're in need of a fresh subtitle, BD supplied one the other day in his top 5 - I actually thought he might have been taking a dig at Steve Tambellini IV, but it plays to our patient spring here in other ways too:
'Waiting for the Man'
Yes. We. Are.
LT: Evgeny Artyukhin?
ReplyDeleteHe's a giant tower of doom, and as opposed to JFJ he can take and make a pass. Even made some end to end plays this year. That or a utility man like Schubert
I think you could get something like Ryder or Kostitsyn for O'Sullivan and Stafford or Byfugelin (sp?) for Nilsson.
ReplyDeleteMight be minors on either side, but if the Oilers were intersted in any of those 4, I could see a deal being worked out if we felt it helped the team.
Obviously Ryder/Byfugelin are both salary dumps and would probably see the Oiler guy getting bought out, while Stafford/Kostitsyn both represent "change of scenery" deals for younger guys.
Alice: OMG! That's the title! I AM NOT KIDDING YOU! Damn, you're good!
ReplyDeleteAnd Rob Schremp's post would have been "The Under Assistant West Coast Promotion Man." :-)
ReplyDeleteWell, :-)
ReplyDeleteIt just came out my guitar this evening when I was fooling around, and I said, Hey, that's Ventilator Blues.
Bet I haven't played or thought about it for twenty years.
I tossed it out a few threads ago, but I could see Souray for Campbell + picks. Campbell seems like the type of defenseman this organization is drawn to.
ReplyDeleteTrak:
ReplyDeleteYou have to actually play over 30 games to have a huge season though, so no real worry there.
Here is what I would do:
ReplyDelete1) Sign and the assign Omark, MAPS, and Eberle to the AHL. First call ups for forwards.
2) Attempt to trade Nilsson, O'Sully and Moreau for picks on draft day (or a career back-up goalie).
3) Assign what ever of the three pylons (see point two) to the AHL if we are unable to trade them
4) Trade 1st over all to Boston for both of their 1st round draft choices
5) Draft Seguin
6) Come out hard on Free Agent Day for a bunch of lesser lights (do not wait till half the summer is over). Specifically Clark and Moore to one year 2 million dollar contracts, Park to a two year 1.1 million dollar contract, as well as Curtis Foster to a two year 2 million dollar contract.
7) Trade the JDD for a third rounder (or conditional 2nd if he plays more the 40 games) in the 2011 draft.
8) Transfer Bulin to Russia, and get him off the books.
9) Acquire a Back Up Career Goalie. I have no good ideas, so I'll go with LT's suggestion in LaBarbara.
10) Trade Souray for picks and prospects.
Roster:
Centre: Horcoff (5.5), Segiun (3 with bonus), Moore (2/ one year deal), Gagner (3/ multi year deal), Poo (0.825), Polutny (1)
RW: Hemsky (4.1), Park (1.1), Jones (0.95), Zorg (0.75)
LW: Penner (4.5), Cogs (1.5), Brule (2/ multi year deal), Comrie (1.25)
Dmen: Whitney (4), Gilbert (4), Foster (2), Clark (2), Johnson (0.6), Peckham (0.8), Smid (1.3)
Goalies: DD (0.850), Career Backup (1)
This is a payroll of $47,750,000, with $9,050,000 in cap space. Plus we have an extra 1st round pick from BOS, a 3rd rounder in 2011 for JDD, and what ever we get for Souray, Nilsson, O'Sully and Moreau (so that will be one decent prospect, one project prospect, 2nd rounder and a 4th rounder, if we are lucky).
Lowetide: You're a million times more measured and sensible than I'm ever likely to be, but I've been suffering the Rangers for well over a decade, and either Redden or Rozsival take the cake for worthlessness and insane overpayment.
ReplyDeleteI was away when Souray vented about the Oiler's useless management, so don't know how desperate the situation is to get rid of him.
PS: Did you see Michel Therrien's tearing into the Pens postgame? Yikes!!
PS: my goal (tonight at least) is get another lottery pick in 2011.
ReplyDeletePatrick Marleau might be the softest player in the entire league... don't know if the guy has ever won a puck battle.
ReplyDeleteThat's going to instantly be one of the worst contracts in hockey.
PDO, it's no lock that Souray only plays 30 next year.
ReplyDeleteI just posted a bunch of thoughts in the Part 1 thread... for the moves end of it, Lilja is the vet UFA Dman that I target.
There's a hole at 2nd PvP wing that needs to be filled by trade.
I'm okay with LaBarbra as GT, but I'd still want a real backup/1A to pair with him. Someone like Budaj.
And I'd be trying to suck hard next year too and get in on the Larsson sweeps.
Is McIlrath really that much better than Plante?
As much love as I see Khabibulin getting here, I think that bed is already made and expect him to be here. It's the same philosophy that people try to make up while dealing Horcoff.
ReplyDeleteI would like Khabibulin off the books, but it would take a minor miracle, or someone damn desperate to make that happen.
"PS: my goal (tonight at least) is get another lottery pick in 2011."
ReplyDeleteWith Labarbera and Dubnyk in net, you certainly are well on your way.
Penner-Gagner-Eberle
ReplyDeleteHall-M.Cullen-Hemsky
MPS-Horcoff-Pisani
Jones-Brule-Stortini
Potulny Pouliot
Whitney Gilbert
Smid Liles
Peckham Johnson
Strudwick
Khabibulin
Dubnyk
- Trade Souray for Liles (or a player of his type). Roszival, I guess would be OK.
- Sign M.Cullen (or a player of his type).
- trade Cogliano for players for OKC (prospects) or picks.
- Buyout Nilsson, O'Sullivan and Moreau if they are untradable for picks.
- Refrain from playing Strudwick over 50 games, play the callups if you have to, if injuries inevitably arise.
and if i'm the gm and i'm tambellini, i'm in love with m.v.p. nick m.v.p. khabibulin wall m.v.p.
ReplyDeleteAs horrible as this year past has been, I'm fine with another tank job, especially with the chance to get another number 1 pick.
ReplyDeleteI'm the stupidest of all fans, in that I tend to trust Tambellini's judgement, until he pulls something insane(like the Moreau/Staios/Pisani/Horcoff offers, or the Comrie blackmail over Perry trade, or the Penner offer sheet, or ...
You get the drift.
Khabibulin was a fair shot at landing a decent(cup winning to boot) goalie, injuries aside. So was hiring Quinn Renney "the dream team" LMAO.
I'm on the sauce tonight.
Fuxckinng Sharks win, destroying my credibility as a pundit(again).
ReplyDeleteIt's like watching two teams that I hate, although in fairness I like the Sharks fans quite a lot.
Red Wings are finished as a hockey power. They still look kind of good, but you can see they've lost their Larianov's and Fetisov's.
For the record, as a boy I used to feel sorry for Yzerman, being a great player on such a shit team.
For the record, as a boy I used to feel sorry for Mickey Redmond, being a great player on such a shit team. :-)
ReplyDeleteGood stuff, LT.
ReplyDeleteRandom thoughts / ideas:
1) Keep Hemsky and Penner. If we're better than expected we can always use them as chips later in the year to trade into the lottery for a shot at Larsson and Couturier.
2) Don't buy out Nilsson, O'Sullivan and Moreau. Either send them to OKC to give that franchise a boost or waive them. They're all in contract years so without the extra year on his deal Moreau might be more attractive to teams at the deadline, and O'Sullivan and Nilsson are playing for jobs/ NHL careers next year. It's last chance saloon for those guys.
3) Souray to Dallas for one of Grossman, Fistric or Niskanen. Can't really be picky at this point, so you tailor your FA signing to which one you get. Personally I'd add a sweatener (JDD, Potulny or Pouliot) to make sure it's Grossman. Guy's young and physical and cheap (RFA), pair him with Smid and you've got a real nice start on re-building the back-end with the Whitney-Gilbert pair.
4) Target RFA's from Chicago. Riley Nash for Troy Brouwer or Andrew Ladd? They can't take on money. Would they take an extra year of Khabibulin back to take Huet extra $2 miilion off their hands?
5) Be aggressive with lesser free agents on 1 or 2 year deals. For our faceoff center I'm looking at Moore, Begin, Ryan Johnson or Metropolit.
For grit go after Mair, Burish or Asham.
Defensively, if it's FIstric or Niskanen coming back from Dallas, I take a run at Henrik Tallinder as a mentor type. When he's on his game he's still a nice top 4 guy, but has struggled at times this year. I don't think they can get Brett Clark.
6) I have no idea what to do with Cogliano. I wonder what his value is as a stand alone asset. Could you package him with Nashville's 2nd or Calgary's conditional 3rd for a mid 1st rounder?
7) All the kids start on the farm.
8) 1 year for Comrie and Pisani
Something like:
Penner - Horcoff - Hemsky
Ladd - Gagner - Brule
Comrie - Pouliot - Pisani
Burish - Moore - Stortini
Jones/Stone/ Potulny (extras)
Whitney - Gilbert
Smid - Grossman
Peckham - UFA
Strudwick or UFA (7th d-man)
Khabby
DD
LT(I'm taking liberties calling you this I know but)...
ReplyDeleteWasn't Redmond once compared to Orr?
Fistric is a great defenceman. Why the stars would trade him is beyond my limited inagination, but if available, they can have Nilsson, and o'Sullivan, haha.
ReplyDeleteHunter:
ReplyDeleteAgree, and realistically they probably deal Niskanen (or even Trevor Daley) before Fistric or Grossman but who knows?
Lowetide dear sir: How do you like having the number one Oiler blog of all time? The one Riley Nash makes sure he reads every goddamned day, for example, lol.
ReplyDeleteI would normally like Nash, but, being Irish myself, hearing his "issues" with the team, plus the red haired ginger stupid looking irish pig expression on his face(see Kubrick's The Killing for reference), well sir, I'm simply left feeling like a man on Dawes road, on a Sunday, awaiting that number eleven bus that simply never arrives.
Ask Vic Ferrari what that means, since he appears to be the resident Londoner around these parts.
Moose:
ReplyDeleteFistric is the type of player every team covets. A bread and butter, crosschecking s.o.b. who gets the job done. Old time hockey, at it's finest.
But i suspect you already know this. I'm merely posturing toward my many enemies, all who await my ultimate online demise.
One final alcohol fueled thought directed toward the draft:
ReplyDeleteSure Seguin looks like a player, and he looks really intelligent.
That's precisely why i prefer Hall. I don't want "smart' player, I want thickoes. There's something about Gordie Howe in Taylor Hall. i have no idea where i come to this conclusion, but Hall has this special aura about him. Like Messier used to have.
Also, Hall talks about wanting to be an Oiler. Seguin doesn't, which makes me see , or forsee trouble down the road with his all to intelligent arse. Give me a Hall every time. But, should they take Seguin, and he turns out to be the real deal, I'll be a genuine bandwagon fan and yack him up like he's the second coming of Jean Beliveau, who, right up until his last bloody game was an absolute beast at center ice.
hunter: THAT was the finest bit you've ever written. Beauty. :-)
ReplyDeleteBeliveau reputedly did what a real center does: That is, take the effing puck from the dot right through to the slot.
ReplyDeleteNo dipsy doodling, just route one from center ice to the slot, and if there was a passing option, the grand whatever he was called would get it done.
And no one, I repeat no one could stop him. Even in 1971, his last playoff(and cup win number 10).
Beliveau has got to be the most underrated hockey player of all time.
@trak
ReplyDeletei agree with you about souray being motivated...
unfortunately i don't like the odds of that helping him. just makes me think of him coming back, being super motivated to be a leader and show iggiy what's what and then shattering his hand.
he's just too fragile, regardless of what the mind says.
which is ashame. 'cause he's a beauty.
LT:
ReplyDeleteOTT needs money so they trade a 3.8 goalie for a 3.75 goalie?
And why does EDM send Leclaire to the minors, why not just have him start in place of Labarbera? It's not like EDM's neara the cap in your scenaraio?
speeds: They're saving with Cogliano. Inexpenisve top 6F. Not a great reason but they actually have mostly reasonable contracts and then a couple of whoppers.
ReplyDeleteI sent LeClaire to the minors because he appears to be horrible and I wanted a better option.
What's your goal for next year?
ReplyDeleteIf it's to finish near the bottom of the standings, and Leclaire stinks, shouldn't that mean you want to keep him in the NHL?
speeds: I'm not as concerned with finishing last in 2011 as actually building some kind of team. The Oilers have to get better goaltending and I think a bad goalie can cost you prospects (especially defensemen). They just lose confidence (its my Oakland Seals theory).
ReplyDeleteSo, if LeClaire is at least NHL average then we're good to go, but it doesn't look like he is.
Roszival's NTC might get in the way of that. I suppose Sather could tell him "it's either Edmonton or Hartford" and the Czech's do seem more comfortable coming here because of the Hemmer connection.
ReplyDeleteI'd say where cap savings are concerned, O'Sullivan and Nilsson are as good as bought out. I'm sure if they can swing a deal to save them the trouble, they would - but I can't for the life of me see a single team wanting either at $3 and $2 million per respectively.
Assuming they can pick up another 500k on the Souray deal, that's $5 million cleared. $36 million with 12 guys under contract.
After RFA's - ~45 million? Cogliano, Gagner, Brule, Potulny and one of the Goalies can't add up to more than 9 million, can it?
I like the Freddie Mayer idea. Scotty Nichol is one guy I'd look at for the RH centre dilemma. He's from here, hits like it's fun and wins two thirds of his draws.
Within the 'cluster' the Oilers have exactly zero high-end defensemen and goalies in the system.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to goaltending... fine. We know that goalies represent a commodity that can be found, fairly readily, when needed.
Peckham should be a decent #6 but he already has significant health issues popping up while Petry looks like a #3 guy in the mold of Gilbert/Whitney.
That leaves Gagner, 'Seguin', MPS, Eberle and one or two of Nash, Omark, Hartikainen, Lander, VDV, etc. to pilot the ship.
As none of them are named Ovechkin or Crosby or even Bergeron/Duchesne I am left with this to say:
Be honest with yourself(s) as to what kind of rebuild you are willing to undertake
Myself. I start next year with JDD/DD in net. Hemsky stays because I need him 'proven' healthy before I trade him and I would want to talk extensiuon regardless. Penner is trade bait. As soon as this draft most probably.
The team has
i think roy is potentially our goalie in the cluster.
ReplyDeletehe's not going to play as a 19 year old, but he's pointing in the right direction.
and based on how most think around here, he was taken about as high as you want to take a goalie. the argument for their development vs. the years you have them waiver free, has won me over in the last year.
i guess what i'm saying is that i'd think less of the oil if they continued to draft a goalie early to fill out the 'cluster'...
jdd and dd being perfect examples of why it's a "waste"
and re: cluster not being decent.
ReplyDeletewell, of course there's not crosby or AO, but that's a bit obvious.
i think some around here are really selling MPS short and not giving eberle enough credit for his development.
our cluster includes this year's WHL MVP and the OHL MVP (playoff or regular season, take your pick)...not AO, but not exactly Ninimaki (sp) or the chopped liver.
for me that measures up to the Kane/Toews or a Kopitar/Brown or a perry/getzlaf.
bringing up duchene (or bergeron or taveres) and saying he's better or worse than eberle or MPS, is a bit of a mute point to me. it's more whether we can turn any of these other kids into the likes of Cody McLeod or Chris Stewart.
If the Sens have dire cap problems and a supposed goaltender problem, why would they want Khabibulin. He doesn't solve any of those problems, and just adds an injury concern, an age concern and a legal concern.
ReplyDeleteI doubt there's an NHL GM out there who would take Khabibulin at this time.
Only the Oilers would do such a dumb move, and like the French knights in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, "they won't be very keen. They already got one, you see."
Jfry, agreed. But the caveat is that MPS, Eberle, and Hall/Seguin have he potential to be as good as those other players but they aren't established as such yet.
ReplyDeleteI think they'll do just fine but I'm just saying. Hopefully they come into camp and blow the doors off the hinges.
Omark and Hartikainen crushing the competition in the AHL would go a long way to helping as well. I like all of the prospects, and you'd think at least one of the two aforementioned and Cornet, Kytnar, Vande Velde, Nash will pan out as at least a good 3rd liner or decent 2nd liner.
Personally Cornet is the unlikely underdog prospect I'm rooting for this season, i.e. he's likely doomed ala Mikhnov, Thoresen and to a lesser extent Nilsson. Cornet's upside is a Yannic Perreault type, and lordie if besides Eberle, Motin, Cornet, and Hartikainen pan out, 2008 will be one for the record books (at least for later draft picks) and Prendergast is going to have at least 1 case of beer sent to his home from a fan.
Weighing in late on something hunter alluded to earlier, something I've been meaning to throw in here for a while. Smart guys and hockey players.
ReplyDeleteThere's a bit of pride expressed in these parts wrt Oilers putting some value on brains when evaluating hockey players. Now I'm not going to say 'you Don't want smart guys, give me dummies', what I will say is I don't think there's any correlation between big brains and hockey sense. Was Frank Mahovlich a Rhodes scholar? Was Gretzky? The notion that the smartest guy in the room is going to be the best guy at understanding and taking direction from his high-school-diploma coaches - does anybody see where this might not always be the case? What hockey sense guys are wired with and/or acquire by many reps and practice I don't think has anything at all to do with how otherwise smart or accomplished they might be. I understand the notion that wishes it were so, but I think it's some kind of romantic vestige of the healthy-mind/healthy-body ideal. Dispel it.
Randy Gregg was good, so is Patrick Kane. Cogs came thru the college system but doesn't appear to have a lick of hockey sense to go with his physical skills. I think knowing their SATs or wanting to know their SATs is actually a bad idea, unless it's all about playing bridge on the plane rides.
For what it is worth, the goalie in the Flames AHL team (David Shantz) is a guy I would try to acquire in exchange for JDD. Numbers like him and his character seems to be something worth taking into consideration. Plus, Calgary's GM has a habit of selling the future to acquire the past/present, so there may be a deal there.
ReplyDeleteThink ESPN rumour site mentioned kovalchuk to the Kings as a possibility. obviously just a rumour, but going from that premise, and the fact that their d corps is young i wonder if we can swing a deal that can address a few needs. Doughty and Johnson will be RFA's in 2 years and due raises (with Doughty pushing $6 mill long term and Johnson likely $4 mill). The kings do free up a bunch of salary after this coming season, but have a clear need for a solid dman. They also have a glut of goalies in the system, with Bernier in the AHl and their AHL backup being solid as well. What kind of package would we need to put together in order to get bernier and Smyth? i realize a lot of people wouldn't want Ryan Smyth and his $6.25 mill cap hit, but getting him settles a lot of our roster, brings us our new Captain and allows us to ease the kids in without the same pressure since Smyth returning would be a bigger story then the 1st pick overall.
ReplyDeleteSo what about
Souray, Omark and Potulny/Cogliano
for
Smyth and Bernier
We have enough small guys, and Potulny will be hard pressed to match this past year so sell high (especially since he is on the US WC team). Potulny and Omark fit in their top 9 right away and cost a lot less then Frolov and Modin (who are now UFA's). Also, by adding Souray their back end is set up and by moving Smyth they free up a spot for Kovalchuk (they can't afford to have two wingers making over $6 mill per year). they free up $7.5 mill when Williams and Handzus are up after this coming season, allowing them to re-sign Johnson and Doughty.
If they don't want Souray, then switch in Chorney (who is playing with Johnson in the world's) and add a draft pick. It saves them a ton of money to help fill out their roster. We then move Souray elsewhere for a younger, cheaper dman.
Might not be a popular opinion, but I'd like Ryan Smyth back. Correct the wrong of 3 years ago and add a player that bleeds Copper and Blue.
If I was GM I'd be trying really really really hard to get the Bruins #2 pick.
ReplyDeleteReally hard.
Did I mention really really hard?
Not sure how many really's I should put in.
Really.
Khabi to Washington for a pick? It's a cost reduction from this year for them... any chance Varlamov is their guy and he grew up watching Khabi? Do they need that veteran Russian presence missing this year?
ReplyDeleteIt sure would be nice to get out from under that contract - clean.
If such a thing were to happen it would clear the path to the quickest route through this impending re-build... a franchise goalie.
Carey Price HAS to be going somewhere new this summer doesnt' he?
That would get my attention.
jdd and dd being perfect examples of why it's a "waste"
ReplyDeleteI disagree. I think Jaroslav Deslauriers and Carey Dubnyk are central planks to our new Montreal Model.
@bruce
ReplyDeletehalak, drafted in the 9th round in 2003...so he fits with the late goalie model...i've always liked his game, by the way.
and carey price was drafted 5th overall.
i don't think either compare to jdd/dd in pedigree, draft position or year to year results.
so, if everyone is correct in saying that you shouldn't waste high picks on goalies, i believe that Halak is the perfect example to support that theory...
but one of them will certainly prove central in the mtl model, that i agree with. also, count me as one who would love to deal something to mtl for either or those goalies (probably price).
I see my long-mentioned idea of trading for Bernier out of LA has come up again. What would it take to get him out of there? I'm guessing a lot being that they've taken their time with him and he looks like he's ready to walk in a star.
ReplyDeleteBut if we "overpaid" to get the exact guy we want/need?
It would take some serious fence-mending -- and perhaps the firing of Quinn - but I wouldn't be at all shocked to see Souray back as an Oiler next year.
ReplyDeleteEdm should know that they need a ruffian on their D and Souray's a pricey injury-prone ruffian but he's still a ruffian.
Was that enough use of the word "ruffian" for you?
Also, the guy's got a tough stipend to move and what better way to show that you're improving as an org reputation-wise then to make up with the guy that aired your previous dirty laundry? If the Oilers could bridge the gaps here and have Souray give a different outlook than that might go a little ways perhaps in improving the optics.
There is a lot to be said for bring Souray back in a situation where he plays:
ReplyDelete1st pair PP
2nd pair EV
2nd pair PK
It's a limited form of the pump and dump but if teams need to see he is healthy before pulling a trigger on a trade then that is what you have to do.
That said, I don't see him being traded at the draft (maybe for a 3rd?) but do him being traded at/just after training camp to a team where something is already set up but the team that wants him wants to see him healthy first (which would mean an upgrade into 2nd rounder territory).
i want to see Souray traded at the draft so we can get a pick THIS year. hopefully a high 2nd rounder at least would be nice. it's a deep draft again this year.
ReplyDeleteIf he could fight left-handed it would go a long way toward making him a useful ruffian. Going on the IR every time he has to throw a few rights, it's got to be curtains for the career in pugilism, if he wants to continue with the hockey one. Unfortunately this takes one of his two most valuable skills off the table.
ReplyDeleteThe Smyth question is interesting, in that if you're cleaning slate down to the guy who fills water bottles, being from the old guard wouldn't seem to be a plus. On the other hand though, he's a tangible connection to the real and proud traditions of the franchise, when being an Oiler meant gutting it out. Are you going to sit beside the guy with his teeth all over the ice and put in a candy-assed shift? He's a one-man, every day version of Savard calling out the young Hawks a few years back with "Respect the Indian". Imagine 100k of Smyth's ethic rubbing off on each of the other 20 skaters, if that mitigates his salary somewhat.
If Souray consented to come back (not that we technically need him to, but bringing him back without his okay seems unwise), I'd take him; he's better than anything we're going to trade him for.
ReplyDeleteI'm not the biggest fan of this trade, but it makes sense. How about Souray for Huselius.
ReplyDeleteWith Hitch gone, Filatov will likely be back and Clb already has Umberger as well for the top 6, leaving a spare LW. Cap is close to the same (5.4vs4.75), and Clb could use a top pairing dman (which IMO Souray is).
With the declaration of doing things right going forward, I can see us sending Eberle and Omark to the AHL to join the likes of Vande Velde and Kytnar and (if signed) MPS, Hartikainen, Nash, Cornet. It would put some pretty talented young guys in the same room to develop together.
It wouldn't give us any more in Edm than last year, but until I see the changes I don't believe they will do much anyways. Oilers roster will look something like:
Penner Gagner Hemsky
Huselius Seguin Brule
Jones Horcoff Pisani
Jacques Stone Stortini
Gilbert Whitney
Peckham Smid
Jurcina (or similar FA) Johnson
Khabibulin
Dubnyk
IMO you would have to either deal/buy out/press box Moreau, Nilsson and Osullivan. I wouldn't want to send them to OKC, as they wouldn't be happy about it and it definitely won't create the environment we want our prospects developing in.
Worse/more untradeable Oiler contract: Kabbi in May 2010 or Penner in May 2009?
ReplyDeleteI know pretty much nobody agrees with me on this, but things can change fast and I think it's entirely possible that we'll be looking at the Wall as an important asset a year from now.
I definitely wouldn't want to sacrifice young talent just for the privilege of dumping him for nothing.
Oh,
ReplyDeleteHi Steve!
Carey Price HAS to be going somewhere new this summer doesnt' he?
ReplyDeleteWonder what NJ has for trade assets for Brodeurs replacement.
Omark fit in their top 9 right away
ReplyDeleteOmark fits in our top 6
I can't fathom why anyone would trade for Khabibulin. LT's suggestion makes a little sense, but if you're Ottawa's GM, why not just sit on Leclaire? If you can't dump your crappy overpaid goalie, why trade him in on another one who's older and on a longer contract? That deal was grounds for dismissal right there. Astoundingly dumb.
ReplyDeleteI'd love to see Smyth back. This franchise died a little inside when he left.
Souray is a dump at this point. The only way they get a useful piece for him is by packaging something.
What's interesting is how the Kings fans think of these great ex Oilers on their team. Stoll is considered a third line center and overpaid, Smyth is considered a second line center and overpaid, and I'm not too sure about Greene but he's down their depth chart a bit, not considered a cornerstone of their team either.
ReplyDeleteThe fact is, none of them are particularly great players, so what's the point in harping on about bringing them back? Is it because all Oilers end up getting shipped out, and once they're gone the fanbase collectively waxes nostalgic?
I have no idea what the future is for the Oilers, given the fact Tambellini hasn't done much more than evaluate, and sign a couple of players, one which got injured and arrested for DUI, but I'm a lot more interested in the potential makeup of the team 2-3 years down the road, provided they don't do anything stupid like trading away Penner or Hemsky.
Of course so many Oiler fans think trading away players while still in their peak is normal business, which naturally fits a team that's done next to nothing for twenty years.
Riv:
ReplyDeleteI can't fathom why anyone would sign Khabibulin for 4 years.
I honestly think if the Oilers wanted to deal him, they probably could find a sucker somewhere.
Problem is, they don't see him as a problem.
Wouldn't necessarily be taking something pretty back, but Hartnell for Khabibulin? Probably not impossible, especially if Philly gets routed once again due to their lack of tending.
hunter1909 said...
ReplyDeleteSmyth is considered a second line center and overpaid,
Well, if Kings fans think Smyth is a centre then they are too dumb for words.
I put zero stock in the collective wisdom of any fanbase. Have you listened to Oiler fans the last couple of decades? So if they're mostly morons, what hope do the Californians have?
Carey Price will be traded at the draft.
ReplyDeleteThere isn't money for both goaltenders, and Halak obviously won the battle.
But i don't believe the Habs will be lured by Souray or anything like Moreau and the old shit.
Cogliano, Nilsson, Pouliot = Maybe.
That or Ladislav Smid.
Love all the moves LT, but not sure why everyone is ready to cut off their nose just to move Khabby. Let's at least give him one more shot this season, if he can stay healthy we've got a solid top 15 in the league goalie. Love the Souray for Roszival trade though.
ReplyDeleteif he can stay healthy we've got a solid top 15 in the league goalie.
ReplyDeleteWhat evidence could you possibly have the Khabibulin, when healthy, is one of the top 15 goaltenders in the league? Is it that he's won a Stanley Cup?
Would Murray make a Khabibulin/Cogliano for LeClaire/2nd rd pick deal?
ReplyDeleteI think the Huet idea is more likely. [or Tim Thomas]
- Nash for Stafford
- Brule for Byfuglien
- Jim Slater from Atlanta is a good idea. It might be too good. The Oilers may have to get in line.
- Souray for Rozsival makes sense. Though the idea of Chicago’s First and Campbell’s Cap Hit is surprisingly seductive. Or, how about returning Souray to Montreal for the elder Kostitsyn?
- One of Segall, Eberle or Paijaarvi will be on the team – book it.
Mrdebakey: How many times do i have to make posts about MTL not having money. Especially for Souray?
ReplyDeleteIt will not happen. If it does i'm never posting again.
If Hemsky is committed to hitting the FA market then I trade him to CBJ for Vorachek and the 4th overall.
ReplyDeleteIf I need to add NAS' 2nd pick from the Grebs trade I do it, might even add the 31st instead if I have to....maybe add Nash if he's set on not signing instead of a pick if Howson goes for it.
Howson is under pressure and it fits his need. With Hitch gone Filitov is probably coming back, so that makes Vorachek more expendable.
With the 4th I take one of Gudbranson, Fowler, Gormley, or Pysyk, whoever the Magnificent Bastard tells me to pick to get my high end D prospect.
I move two more high end players into my younger cluster and now 2-3 years from I have a top pairing D and a top 6 forward, maybe sooner.
Now you have a Gagner, MPS, Eberle, Vorachek, 1st OV, 4 OV D in the high end cluster, Hartikanen, Lander, VDV, Petry, Motin, Plante and others in the 2nd level.
That can be a good team if they don't fuck up the development.
Also,
ReplyDeleteGetting rid of Hemsky now probably has the Oilers in the lottery again, add another high end prospect.
Does that give us enough cap room to throw a $100 million offer sheet at Backstrom?
ReplyDeleteEverything else (besides goaltending) is window dressing.
ReplyDeleteWhat Tambellini turns Hemsky and Penner into have as much to do with future success of the Oilers as 1OV this year. Probably more.
If he turns one into a long term Oiler, that's good too.
OT Link:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.puckprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=550
best and worst captains in the league...no one will be surprised what this metric finds.
Woodguy: Some caller asked Bob Stauffer on today's show about whether Columbus would do a straight up Voracek for Hemsky trade. He doubted they would but said they most likely do their 4th overall pick from Hemsky. Then he said something interesting - that he wouldn't be surprised to see Hemsky here & not traded at all. He's on the inside & despite all his bluster & bullshit, he knows more than us on the inside. Maybe they're working on something long term where they want Hemsky to be the centre piece of the team going forward?
ReplyDeleteThat should say - 4th overall pick for Hemsky
ReplyDeleteRiversQ -
ReplyDeleteI was drinking heavily last night and somewhat today, and it's all my fault I wrote that Smyth is a center, as I was thinking 'player' and there was a breakdown in communication between my brain and fingers.
The fact is, Smyth is not considered first line material by the Kings fans, and he's simply not worth the money he's paid.
Everyone is of course entitled to their own opinion, and mine overall would like to see the Oilers management put a stop once and for all to overpaying for anyone, ever.
Because, in a cap world you only have so much money to spend, and when you overpay one player, you end up running out of money to pay another player. Next time Oilers make the finals, I want them to have enough money to spend to have a good backup goalie, and no AHL charity cases because when it's time to put up or shut up the better talent usually delievers.
I make no pretense to understand cap management, but I've played a lot of poker, and one thing about the Oilers over the past many years is, like any sucker in a poker game, they keep making terrible bets, and paying the price. Personally I can see Tambellini's logic on going for a stanley cup winning goalie, and don't think it's a terrible gamble.
Drafting Kelly over Doan was a stupid thing to do, as was trading down to get Pouliot, as was trading away picks to draft mister Ivy league ginger boy. Thank fuck the morons responsible for those moves are no longer running the team, or so we're supposed to believe.
Wow, if Howson won't do Vorachek staright up for Hemsky, then I'm surprised.
ReplyDeleteI assume his pressure to make the playoffs and find a mate for Nash would compel him.
Hemsky is an elite player in his prime and 100pts with Nash and Vilatov is not unreasonable.
No one available at 4th can do that, not now, and Vorocheck hasn't done it.
Given the average tenure of NHL GM, now is important.
Especially a guy like Howson who knows Hemsky.
ReplyDeleteI love how Woodguy spells Voracek differently every time. I hope this is on purpose because it's starting to get funny.
ReplyDeleteHow hard do have to hit the sauce to think Khabibulin will give you top 15 goaltending?
I think the issue is more of a center for Nash, not a wingmate. Huselius is doing a fine job.
ReplyDeleteMostly sober, on a blackberry and I could never spell.
ReplyDeleteI just spell thing foeneticly
Jfry: Yeah i guess Leadership has nothing to do with being a captain.
ReplyDeleteIt's one of the worst metrics i ever saw.
Sure it helps when it's a good player. But it doesn't have to be your best. Ditching Dustin Brown or Brendan Morrow is stupid. They can play hockey, not a matter, it's not because theyr not the absolute best on theyr team that they can't be captain.
fpb:
ReplyDeleteCarey Price to the highest bidder at the draft... agreed.
For someone, he represents a real (franchise altering?) opportunity - and I sure hope it's the Oilers.
I long for the days when Oiler goalkeeping didn't come with huge question marks.
Price-Dubnyk
And I can be happy again.
i don't think either compare to jdd/dd in pedigree, draft position or year to year results.
ReplyDeleteJfry: My comment about the Montreal Model was a joke. About the only thing our guys have in common with their guys is age.
I really need to learn how to add sarcasm tags.
Penner + JDD + 2nd=Carey Price + P.K. Subban
ReplyDeleteSouray for a 2nd or 3rd
O'Sullivan for a 2nd
Moreau for whatever pick or waive
Khabibulin for whatever pick
After cutting significant salary, I sign Hemsky to a new long term contract that he's happy with, and my lines are as follows:
Hall-Eberle-Hemsky(7.5)
MPS-Gagner(3.5)-Cogliano(2.5)
Stone-Horcoff(7)-Brule(shutdown line)
Jones-Potulny-Stortini
Nilsson/JFJ
Whitney-Gilbert
Smid-[UFA signing]
Johnson-Subban
Peckham
Carey Price
Devan Dubnyk
Here's what I'd try to do:
ReplyDeleteTrades: Penner + JDD + 2nd (or O'Sullivan) = Price + P.K. Subban
UFA signing (or trade for): tough, hard-nosed, 2nd pairing defenseman
Traded or waived: Souray, O'Sullivan, Khabi, and Moreau.
Eberle is my No. 1 centre, if Hall is indeed better than Seguin. I throw money at Hemmer to make him happy in a long-term (6-year) deal this summer (7.5M).
My line up:
Hall-Eberle-Hemsky
MPS-Gagner-Cogliano
Stone-Horcoff-Brule (shut down line)
Jones-Potulny-Stortini (Energy line)
Extra fwds: Nilsson/JFJ
Gilbert-Whitney
Smid-UFA
Subban-Johnson
Peckham
Price
Dubnyk