I also very much doubt Magnus Paarjavi-Svensson will be a Baron in the fall. Should he sign this spring (and it looks like it--this is significant because MPS may be the most NHL ready of the group bubbling under) but miss making the big team at TC, chances are he (and possibly Lander who may also sign) will go back to Timra and play another season in the SEL.
Tambellini in the article: "Most need time to develop, and Oklahoma City is going to see a lot of those players.” I think Okla City fans may see Jordan Eberle (a helluva prospect) wearing their uniform in the fall, but the Seguin/Hall selection and MPS are unlikely to be there. Here is the "blue sky" depth chart, assuming MPS and others sign and stay:
- G Devan Dubnyk (needs to clear waivers)
- G Bryan Pitton
- D Chris Armstrong*
- D Jake Taylor*
- D Taylor Chorney
- D Theo Peckham
- D Dean Arsene*
- D Alex Plante
- D Johan Motin
- D Jeff Petry
- D Matt Nickerson
- D Josef Hrabal
- C Ryan Potulny*
- C Ryan O'Marra
- C Chris Vande Velde
- C Geoff Paukovich
- C Milan Kytnar
- C Linus Omark
- C Anton Lander (if signed)
- L Magnus Paarjavi-Svensson
- L Teemu Hartikainen (if signed)
- L JF Jacques
- L Charles Linglet*
- L Slava Trukhno
- L Bryan Lerg
- L Philippe Cornet
- R Jordan Eberle
- R Liam Reddox
- R Ryan Stone
- R Colin McDonald
An interesting list. like you LT i doubt the Euro's will start in the AHL. I expect them to get a few games with the big club, and if they struggle then Tambellini can send them down without as much bitching from the agent and player. Eberle i think may be most ready to play in the NHL next year, but as a good Canadian kid he will likely start in the minors and be the first call up. The reality based on talent and cap hit (the two main issues in the league when deciding who to keep) it seems that Eberle is ahead of Nilsson and O'Sullivan. Surprisingly he's the same size as O'Sullivan, and at more then half the cap hit with similar skills it may make more sense to start him with the big club.
ReplyDeleteAnd with MPS playing well he's assured a spot with the big club if he signs. While I hate the idea that our 3 top prospects come due for big raises at the same time, i'm OK with this lineup next year. Might not make the playoffs, but it's a young team with potential and some balance (especially if you spread the kids out).
MPS-Gagner-Hemsky
Penner-Seguin-Brule
Pouliot-Horcoff-Jones
Cogs-Potulny-Stortini
Stone-Nilsson
If they can't move or are unwilling to buy out Moreau, O'Sullivan and nilsson you can keep one of them and have Eberle in the minors.
LT, have you given up hope on Nash signing at all? I don't see him on this list, or are you leaving him in college whatever happens?
ReplyDeleteJust curious.
I think the Oilers in the past have been guilty of overpromising. If MPS and Eberle are good enough and are one of the best top 12 forwards on the Oilers, then I believe they should be with the Oilers. I don't think they should be suppressing them in the minors.
ReplyDeleteI don't think the Oilers are in a position to be promising anything to OKC, not yet anyway.
Your headline says it all LT, you should be a copy writer.
ReplyDeleteI can see Eberle and Omark starting in OKC if MPS signs and Hall/Seguin stick with the club.
If Hall/Seguin does not stick, then I can see Eberle start in Edmonton. Or yes, maybe they start Omark in Edmonton w/Eberle in OKC and see what happens.
I just hope you're wrong about DD starting in OKC. I don't think he'd clear waivers (and I'd be surprised if Peckham cleared too).
Edmonton Oilers Hockey:
ReplyDeleteOver-promising and under-delivering for 20 years!
But then again, what else would you expect from a tame whose been managed by a guy whose most common public statment is "Would you like some bacon or sausage with your pancakes?"
Bar Qu: I don't think Nash plays a game for the Oilers. At this point imo it is down to getting the draft pick next summer or dealing him in a package.
ReplyDeleteBased on Stauffer's (and lets face it, he's connected) opinion of Nash this bird has flown.
Eberle shuld have had a goal on his 1st shift of the WC. A quick whistle called it back.
ReplyDeletehttp://www2.tsn.ca/window/mwhc2010/video_player.aspx
Eberle looking solid to start, playing with Kane and Peverley. He scored a goal that was waived off due to a quick whistle. And he looks bigger then i thought. i never realized that he is 5'11. he's actually a big smurf I guess like O'Sullivan
ReplyDelete1-1. Eberle +1. no points. Their line is the most dangerous right now. Eberle drove the net and cleared the dman. Solid play.
ReplyDeleteEberle +1
ReplyDeleteLooks like we're both crazy busy at work today DBO
ReplyDeleteSK: yep. Got some time before I head to Fort Mac.
ReplyDeletedreger just tweeted that DD was added to the Canadian roster.
ReplyDeletemess has put together a weird team. it's like an average WJC three years later.
DD? Wow, good for him, but is there no one else? Mason hasn't exactly looked stellar so having some experience heading over there might be a good idea Mes. I suspect the KLowe to Team Canada hotline was used here.
ReplyDeleteNo chance Atlanta would make Kane available hey? Didn't think so.
ReplyDeletethe ol' red phone.
ReplyDeleteseems like that kind of answers the questions about which goalie the oilers like.
Maybe they thought that DD was prepared better mentally than Fleury or Luongo?
ReplyDeletehaha
Forget whether or not the Oilers brass are lying to OKC; that article is rife (RIFE!) with factual errors. Like stating the Spits have already won the Memorial Cup and spelling Seguin twice with a Q.
ReplyDeleteCan anyone explain the rationale behind having to go through waivers?
ReplyDeleteI don't get it.
Thanks LT.
ReplyDeleteCrap.
Glad to hear Eberle is continuing to prove he is a man in a smurf's body at yet another level.
Conan - Waivers are a talent redistribution process to prevent some teams from hoarding talent in the minors while others are not competitive.
ReplyDeleteConan, waivers were created to give players a chance to make it to the show. The rationale behind it was that a stacked team might have a number of very good players bubbling under that could not make the parent club but here NHL calibre.
ReplyDeleteSo if the club wanted to stash some of these players away in the minors another team that could use them could pluck them and give them a shot at a job.
In practice, however, especially now with the re-entry waivers and cap him sharing, waivers also act as a detriment to a player getting his shot. A recent example with the Oilers was Thoresen who by all appearances would have been recalled much earlier if he didn't have to clear waivers. Eventually he did get recalled and Philly nabbed him.
Montreal had a similar situation with Hainsey, who started to play well but they tried their best not to recall till they absolutely had to with all the injuries on their blue mounting, and of course he didn't clear.
If not for injuries piling up as high as they did, both Thoresen and Hainsey would have spent the entire season in the AHL being passed over for a call up even if they deserved it, so as not to loose them on waivers.
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ReplyDeleteEberle with assist. 3-1 canada
ReplyDeletenorway diving like soccer players. anything on their back they go down
ReplyDeleteYikes, J Jonah assigned Jimmy Jones cub reporter to write that story.
ReplyDelete“Jimmy, yah gotta talk to this ice hockey guy, Bambleleenie or sumthin”
No way Hrabal, Trukhno or Lerg play in OKC – I’ll take 3 former Oiler suspects for 100 Alex.
Paukovich & MacDonald 50/50 – maybe on AHL contracts.
Peckham & Dubnyk will be with the “Big” club methinks.
“If MPS and Eberle are …. of the best top 12 forwards on the Oilers”
Problem is, you know they’re going to look good in camp, in the Moss Cup, hell Lerg did.
But, if they’re not helping Team Tough pile up Ws…..
So based on the article is it a case of:
ReplyDeletea) The Oklahoman beat writer not getting HIS facts straight
b) Tambellini not knowing that Hall/Seguin can't play in the 'A' when doing the interview.
or
c)Tambo flat out lying to sell tickets to a market with a new team?
None of these are good answers, but one has to be true.
Nice little play by Eberle. Scoring chances just seem to happen when he's out there.
ReplyDeleteThe chances look almost innocent until the puck is in the net.
The puck is in the Offensive end most of the time as well when he's out there.
On the WHC back-up goalie thing.
ReplyDeleteTwo guys who played in the KHL this past season are [and save %]:
-Jeff Glass 0.918
-Michael Garnett 0.917
They've been playing on the big ice,
Playing well on the big ice.
One, or both, of them would've been a better idea than DD.
I would guess that it's season ticket sales time in OKC and that "This team is the 2010 version of the 2009 last place Springfield Falcons" is not the best tagline.
ReplyDeleteHowever, the Taylor/Tyler comment is just factually wrong and it wouldn't hurt for the Oilers to clarify it with the OKC press.
I presume that AHL hockey doesn't get the best sports writer assigned to it in OKC. Keep in mind its a city of 1.3 million people, but only about 182 of them care about hockey.
5-1 now. eberle plus 3 and an assist. that line looks ike Canada's most dangerous (Peverley-Kane-Eberle)
ReplyDeleteEberle's line out for another goal, 4-1 good guys.
ReplyDeleteEberle is an offensive warlock with a +1 stick of scoring.
6-1
ReplyDeleteEberle with another +. I'll be interested to hear MacT's comments on his game.
ReplyDeleteNevermind, it's a rout now. 7-1, Downie in on a goal.
ReplyDeleteEberle on PP with tavares and Perry
ReplyDelete7-1, eberle may get an assist
ReplyDeleteEberle another assist. 8-1. Eberle beside net nice opass to kane. 3 pts for eberle
ReplyDeleteI know it's Norway, but not a bad WC debut for Eberle. I don't think he'll be in OKC long.
ReplyDeletedid rod black wrong someone? why is he pulling the 6am WHC period break shift?
ReplyDeletei think there's a good chance Eberle doesn't touch the AHL next year. i don't know if it's best, but he's certainly better than some players who might make the team in front of him. the last kane goal, eberle forced the exact same pass, twice before it worked. kid knows what he wants to do and can get it done. love it.
Eberle's going to make the squad next year. He'll be even better at camp. I think we might've hit our home run. He's not just good, but special.
ReplyDeleteIt's about effing time.
If we can hit two more this summer somehow...good gawd next year could be fun to watch.
Stone would have to clear waivers, wouldn't he?
ReplyDeletedreger just tweeted that DD was added to the Canadian roster.
Wait, what?
Eberle, MPS and one of Hall/Seguin makes me happy about the future. Hope they go defense on their 2nd pick. We are set with Whitney and Gilbert for a few years, along with Smid as a solid shutdown dman. Petry looks promising, and a year in the AHL will do him good. there doesn't seem to be an impact dman in the system other then maybe Petry, so i hope they get a good guy in the 2nd, or trade up with our 2nd and someone like Cogs to get up in the 1st round.
ReplyDeleteEberle with four assists that period by my count. May only have three officially. Dave Randorf and Mike Johnson (remember him?) can't stop raving about him. He's been on the ice for 5 of the 8 Canada goals. An awesome debut.
ReplyDeleteHow does Pysek fromt eh Oil Kings look? he's 16th in CSS, but I don't know much about him other then he's a RD and 6'1, 175 lbs.
ReplyDeleteOh and Eberle gets another assist added. 4 points.
Eberle scores. OK this is getting a bit silly
ReplyDeleteEberle scores! 1-4-5
ReplyDeletethis is like watching gags at the super series, again. love this eberle guy
ReplyDeleteCorrection.
ReplyDeleteEberle is a level 14 offensive warlock, with an aura of attack initiative +1 to all those in his party and a +2 stick of scoring.
Make it 1G 4A
ReplyDeleteI think this guy might do OK in the pros.
ReplyDeleteI know it's Norway, but all this talk about him starting in the AHL seems off base. His AHL days are done IMO.
uni: lol
ReplyDeleteDBO - I didn't love him in limited viewing. (Pysyk)
ReplyDeleteI still think you go BPA. We can't get bogged down in trying to draft need. Can always trade for a young D if that's what you really need. There's likely to be a forward there at 31 that really shouldn't be passed up.
Our man Eberle seems the real deal alright, good thing we didn't keep him last fall or he'd have likely screwed up our lottery pick. Tambo, shrewdest man in hockey? Discuss.
ReplyDeleteKeep sending him out MacT! Go for the record.
ReplyDeletePretty to watch.
I know its' norway, but Eberle one point from canadian record (Lindros with 6 pts twice)
ReplyDeleteOmark needs to be pumped up for a trade before Eberle gets called up.
ReplyDeleteAsset management.
Love macT. He shifted lines, eberle now with Ott and Bourque. LOL
ReplyDeleteBtw, that 9-1 goal was pure CLUTCH!
ReplyDeleteAlice: Tambo did absolutely nothing that interfered with Oilers getting that lottery pick.
ReplyDeleteI really really miss having MacT behind the bench.
ReplyDeleteWhat are the odds of him being recalled with Huddy to the Oil? With Tom Renney staying as well to round them out =).
Apparently Dubnyk is making the trip to Germany....good luck doobie
ReplyDeleteWhat are the odds of him being recalled with Huddy to the Oil?
ReplyDeleteMuch better after 2009/10 season than just before.
//Tambo did absolutely nothing that interfered with Oilers getting that lottery pick.//
ReplyDeleteThe master plan emerges....
Maybe the crazy bastard is really Horcov's cousin, Stefan Tambellinski. Only missing Boris and Natasha.
Dubnyk does have some international experience playing for Canada. He was in the Spengler Cup iirc, the year Pat Quinn coached the team. He backed up a Hall of Fame Maple Leaf prospect but did get into the important games when Toronto's can't miss goalie struggled for the first and only time.
ReplyDeleteWow, what a play by Eberle in the corner to win the puck and feed a beauty pass to Peverley. No goal this time, but a real nice play by the kid.
ReplyDelete@LT, how did you enjoy hockey before the oilers came along? your eastern non-bias is awesome.
ReplyDeleteSo of course now that I'm watching things calm down...oh well.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest thing about Eberle for me is that you wouldn't be able to differentiate him in a negative way from the other players just watching. You'd have no indication that he's the non-NHLer unless you actually know.
Deano and uni: Thanks. I get the rationale now. Seems like a convoluted way to do things.
ReplyDeleteUni, the level of geekery you have displayed with those posts is unsurpassed. I am in awe not only of how well you have summarized the incredilbe and disturbing powers of young Eberle, but also of the balls you display in sharing that terrible truth with the rest of the world.
ReplyDeleteWere I in Lowetide's Shoes, I would knight you Sir Uni, and title you a Baron of Oilers Geekdom, Guardian of the blessed dice and random number generating software and Lord Protector of Saint Eberle's Character Sheet.
Jfry: I was an Orr fan as a kid, still love the Bruins. I actually like Ottawa's Senators too.
ReplyDeleteBut the Leafs have a special place in my own private hell. Reason? They traded Frank Mahovlich when I was a kid and all the adults I knew were up in arms. I've talked about this before but the Leafs lost their status in our house after that day. Now that I'm older I think you could categorize the Mahovlich trade as "religious differences" that split Leaf Nation forever.
It was a black day.
Since then, I've endured decade of little things like Leafs prospects getting elevated status for world juniors etc. The other night Sportsnet had a special Memorial Cup preview and called up a prospect from junior to share his experience.
Who you ask? Kadri. He's a fine young player and I don't want to dislike him but it'll be tough because he's a Toronto prospect and will get shoved down our throats forever. Luke Schenn has the same problem. He was a HOFer in year one, but they turned on him a little this year so you don't hear too much about him. Poor kid.
Chris Mason looks like the leader from Son's of Anarcy. what a chin.
ReplyDeletelooks like all the guys seem to like eberle, which is good. can't believe how young this team looks during the anthem. wow.
Tambo did absolutely nothing that interfered with Oilers getting that lottery pick.
ReplyDeleteThis is probably more important than most would give credit to. At about 35-40 games in, when even Bruce and I had given up hope, there was the real risk that the Oilers would make a trade for an NHL goalie of modest quality and make some other changes to try and 'right the ship'. There is a very good chance that this team could have climbed up to 25 or 26th spot or something if they had a real goalie.
At that time Tambellini came out and said the Oilers were going with DD and JDD for the rest of the season. This was the official announcement of the dive. That deserves a tiny bit of credit.
Who got Player of the Game for Canada anyways? Was it Eberle?
ReplyDeleteWas it Eberle?
ReplyDeleteYes, the future Captain Canada.
Eberle player of the game, yup. Nice to see he can fit in just fine with Actual NHL Players.
ReplyDeleteAt that time Tambellini came out and said the Oilers were going with DD and JDD for the rest of the season. This was the official announcement of the dive. That deserves a tiny bit of credit.
ReplyDeleteI agree with this. For a long time it seemed like "Tambellini inaction" was two words rather than three, but at that point scrambling to right the ship was not the path to righteousness and he knew it. Took a lot of heat for it too.
Jeebus, Malkin and Gonhcar to play for Russia now. It looks like they're bringing a machine gun to a knife fight. Dubnyk to save the day?
ReplyDeleteMy (deep) respect for Sergei Gonchar has taken a major hit. I assumed the reason he sucked total ass in Game Freakin' 7 was some sort of major injury, arm dangling from a socket or some such. Now I'm left wondering if he was more interested in playing in Germany than in Pittsburgh.
ReplyDeleteYes, the future Captain Canada.
ReplyDeleteI hope not. That means another 12 years of missing the playoffs and first round knockouts.
Oiler connections with Team Canada:
ReplyDeleteGM Mark Messier
Coach Craig MacTavish
Captain Ryan Smyth
Backup Captain Ray Whitney
Record breaking scorer Jordan Eberle
Goaltending saviour Devan Dubnyk
What's that you say?
I know it is only one game but perhaps Eberle's performance will help to silence the critics from the East(mostly Leaf fans) who said that he did not deserve to be selected.
ReplyDeleteWell we all know that should have been Kadri and Pogge that got added to the squad.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget Assistant Coach Billy Moores, Bruce!
ReplyDeleteDoug Messier was Mark's agent when he was an Oiler....Does that count?
ReplyDeleteWhat's that you say?
ReplyDeleteFor great justice!
Jordan, thanks...I think, for crowning me the keeper of the random number generator.
uni... Those D&D posts cracked me up completely.
ReplyDeleteAs for Eberle, good for him. I've been touting him as special for some time because of his desire level, and it's wonderful to see it manifested.
The guy WANTS to be The Man.
Meanwhile, the "trade Malkin" speculation begins over at THN.
ReplyDeleteChrist almighty, if we traded MPS, the 1st overall and Souray for Malkin, I'd have to become a full-time Blackhawks fan. Good grief that would be an awful move. So why am I afraid it's exactly the sort of stupidity the Katz/Lowe/Tambellini triumverate would consider?
The future has been handed to Tambellini, if he messes with this (riding the Magnificent Bastard to glory) then there's seriously no hope.
ReplyDeleteEberle was taken 22nd, folks. I agree MPS fell to the Oilers a little but you still have to man up and have the stones to make the selection with a lot of quality still on the board.
The only way this thing gets screwed up is if management messes with the scouting process. MacGregor has a very good track record, let him do the due diligence and make sure he doesn't trip on the way to the podium.
Tambellini should be able to do it without breaking a sweat.
I know it's Norway, but all this talk about him starting in the AHL seems off base. His AHL days are done IMO.
ReplyDeleteOnce agian his pts/gm pace would have made him 5thin AHL scoring.
He pk'd in the dub. Can not be worse than POS.
I'm trying not to read TOO much into the Dubnyk call-up, but given the Oilers ties to Hockey Canada, doesn't this pretty much seal the deal as to which of the yound goalies they're keeping?
ReplyDeleteI have been trying to get my head around this and it just seems amazing that this young man (20 tomorrow)playing his first game at a world championship could get points in 5 of canada's 12 goals and but for a quick whistle could have had 2 goals and 4 assists.
ReplyDeletewhat were the expectations I wonder?
Slow start, play himself in a bit get comfortable, maybe grab a point?
I hope he just gets a couple of points next game otherwise expectations are going to be huge when he gets back.
Lowetide: if they trade the 1st overall for Malkin, they're the Islanders west.
ReplyDeleteAnd, unlike 1984, that's nothing to gloat about.
Why is everyone terrified of trading for Malkin?
ReplyDeleteIsn't he about as good as anyone we draft could become? Not to mention LARGE.
LMHF#1: Malkin's a terrific player but this team is more than one player away from winning anything. Also, he's expensive and his next contract could be difficult. Plus, there's the Motherland calling.
ReplyDeleteLMHF,
ReplyDeleteMalkin would cost assets. The "same" player drafted #1 overall, we've already paid for in a horrible season.
And Malkin has already received his payday.
Bruce on Gonchar: Look at goal 4 of the Canadiens. Doesn't seem like he cared, or tried to do shit.
ReplyDeleteChrist almighty, if we traded MPS, the 1st overall and Souray for Malkin, I'd have to become a full-time Blackhawks fan. Good grief that would be an awful move. So why am I afraid it's exactly the sort of stupidity the Katz/Lowe/Tambellini triumverate would consider?
ReplyDeleteI can't see it happening: it would be too much the exact opposite of what Tambellini emphatically said this off-season was going to be about. Still, to paraphrase an old saying, nobody ever went broke overestimating the incoherence of an Oilers GM.
The problem with trading for Malkin is that Malkin is just not as good at helping his team win as his point totals imply.
ReplyDeleteSomeone at the Copper and Blue speculated that EDM would be foolish to make the trade even if Malkin were the #3 best C in the league.
Which is nuts I think. The Oil should feel incredibly fortunate if their 1OV pick turns out to be 3rd best in the league at his position, 6 years from now. That's an outer marker in the range of reasonable expecations, even LT alluded to that in his previous post.
It does not matter one whit that Malkin is getting paid, if he is a difference-maker on that level then you could pay him even more and you'd be better off for it. Nobody would object to trading the #1OV for Crosby or Ovechkin, the thing with those players is that they are genuine difference makers. I mean you could probably even make a case for trading the #1OV for a lesser talent like Nash or Toews, those are terrific complete or near-complete players with the ability to send a gigantic ripple down the line-up.
And you don't have to wait 3 to 5 years for it. Future winning is overrated.
But Malkin? Meeh.
MPS already has 1G in the first period of his game against Latvia.
ReplyDeleteWhich is nuts I think. The Oil should feel incredibly fortunate if their 1OV pick turns out to be 3rd best in the league at his position, 6 years from now. That's an outer marker in the range of reasonable expecations, even LT alluded to that in his previous post.
ReplyDeleteI think you capture the essence of it all in your final sentence of that post - trading for Malkin, in my mind at least, doesn't get you the 3rd best center in the league.
Straight up, Crosby, Datsyuk and Zetterberg are better all-around players, just off the top of my head. And if you start getting into looking at current price and all-around game, I start thinking I'd rather have guys like Toews, Jeff Carter and Mike Richards as well.
Malkin's certainly top ten, but he's not in the upper-stratosphere of talents that his 8.7 per year cap hit would imply. As such, I'd take a pass.
Already 2 over 100 points season and one Conn Smythe after 4 seasons.
ReplyDeleteYou guys are nuts.
It's alright FPB, you cheer for the Habs and think Halak is the next Hasek and that the Canadiens kept the Caps and Pens to the outside 14 games in a row.
ReplyDeleteSo we're not in the same conversation. These are adults talking here.
R O: Jobless adults it seems.
ReplyDeleteFPB: lol. Good one.
ReplyDeleteStraight up, Crosby, Datsyuk and Zetterberg are better all-around players, just off the top of my head.
ReplyDeleteI don't think I'd make the trade for those guys, either. Our first overall won't be as good as any of them, but our first overall, plus MPS, plus the cap space afforded by those guys being several million dollars per year cheaper than the superstars? I don't think it's worth it; cap space is still widely undervalued.
(And of course this doesn't even factor in trying to build around our window, whenever that may be.)
R O: If Seguin gets, 1 Conn Smythe, 1 Art Ross, 1 Calder, a stanley cup and more tan 381 in 4 seasons. You win.
ReplyDeleteJobless adults it seems.
ReplyDeleteIt's lunch hour in the Mountain Time Zone. Unfortunately we don't get recess anymore when we get out of school, otherwise we could have been talking earlier.
For the record i was talking about the 1st OV straight up for Malkin.
ReplyDeleteNot with MPS. (Tough i'd agree for Souray)
I couldn't care less about Seguin, I don't even cheer for the Oil.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I don't have the audacity to cheer for my own team's accomplishments on this blog. That's just bad form. You should put your allowance/birthday money where your mouth is though, and bet on Montreal to win the Cup. You don't have the stones.
But I'll leave you with this, and I'm sure it'll go over your head but there's hope yet, the youth are the future after all.
Points aren't everything.
R O: First off, i have a job. 2nd betting is illegal. 3rd If i would have big my money on the Habs, i wouldn't have to pay my Cegep fees. :).
ReplyDelete(Tough i'd agree for Souray)
ReplyDeleteSouray's got two years left in his contract. We're not going to be contending either of those years, which means we also should be able to avoid a cap-crunch, making his cap hit fairly harmless to us.
And yeah, credit where it's due, that "jobless adults" crack was awesome. Speaking as a (mostly) jobless adult, that is.
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ReplyDeleteDon't forget Assistant Coach Billy Moores, Bruce!
ReplyDeleteRibs: I feel shame, but thanks! I dunno how I let Billy slip by. I think his nickname is Billy "Under the Radar" Moores.
FPV: That fourth goal really stood out didn't it. I've seen Washington Generals backchecking the Globetrotters harder than that. Pwned by Travis Moen? Pathetic.
I don't think I'd make the trade for those guys, either. Our first overall won't be as good as any of them, but our first overall, plus MPS, plus the cap space afforded by those guys being several million dollars per year cheaper than the superstars? I don't think it's worth it; cap space is still widely undervalued.
ReplyDelete*blink, blink*
You would not trade the 1OV for Crosby?
Crosby could be earning $10M on the Oil and they are probably a better team in more parallel universes than what they would be with a cheap Seguin/Hall and whomever else the extra money buys. It is unbelievable how much trash pulls $2-3M in this league without actually helping their teams win all that much. I would have thought that the last four years would have taught Oiler fans that.
You would not trade the 1OV for Crosby?
ReplyDeleteWith MPS? I don't think so. I think about it, for sure, but MPS and the first overall are both likely impact players, and the difference between their combined cap hit at Crosby's should buy you another impact player.
The problem with the Oilers isn't that their best player isn't good enough, it's that they don't have enough good players.
Anyway, I'm open to the possibility that I'm nuts, but I'm afraid that I won't be able to respond to your rebuttals, since today's one of the about ten days this year that I'm not jobless. Discuss amongst yourselves!
ReplyDeleteThe problem with the Oilers isn't that their best player isn't good enough, it's that they don't have enough good players.
ReplyDeleteWell that's easy enough to pinpoint though isn't it? Don't play so many kids and don't overpay for players that aren't difference-makers.
All these kids that the Oilers own, even the ones in the bigs, they are just way overrated. I don't say that to taunt, it is just true. And the really good players on the Oil - Hemsky, Horcoff, Penner to a certain extent - well they are criminally underrated, to the point where people are thinking of trading them for futures.
That is just crazy. Winning is hard. I read this blog a lot and the projections for future success that are bandied about sometimes are just insane. It is just not realistic that all of Eberle, MPS, Gagner, and the 1st overall pick will all turn out to be difference makers. Shit happens in a big way in the development of young players, LT is probably the only one here who realizes it though.
Whereas Crosby (or some such similar difference maker, I was talking Richards yesterday with Vic) plus the impact players on the current Oilers roster... well they are known quantities, they are terrific hockey players. Winning with them, now, is just an order of magnitude more realistic than winning with question marks in the near-to-distant future.
R O: As much as Malkin might be overvalued, Crosby is undervalued at 8.7 million.
ReplyDeleteHe's the best player in the world and could be worth 15 million in a pre-2005 CBA environment. I'd do that deal proposed for Malkin to get Crosby in a half second.
Problem is, NO GM is stupid enough to trade Sidney Crosby, just like no GM would have been dumb enough to trade Wayne Gretzky in summer 1988. However, a broke-ass used-car-salesman of an owner WAS able to sell said player when enough millions were thrown on the table, but that's another discussion altogether.....
Backup Captain Ray Whitney
ReplyDeleteHow much of a difference would it have made if Ray Whitney had remained an Oiler (as opposed to being kicked out by Ron Low) from whenever that was until now.
I know its hard to call because there would be secondary and tertiary impacts that are unpredictable, but I just see Weight, Smyth, and Guerin/Arnott benefiting tremendously from having a Ray Whitney around. Anyway, just a thought.
Yeah, HBomb, if I was a GM and Shero told me that they wanted players from my team and were willing to give up Crosby, well, I would print up a list of my roster and draft picks for the next ten years with checkboxes and give it to them.
ReplyDeleteCrosby is just incredible, it is unimaginable how some people can even deny it. One guy on JWillis' blog called him primarily a "garbage goal" scorer the other day. I suppose there is a new meaning for garbage these days, involving singlehandedly putting the puck in the scoring ares for yourself or your (terrible) teammates, over and over and over and over.
Also, I'll take a minor exception to the statement that RO says the Oilers young players are overrated. I'd agree that some people are expecting too much from them right off the bat, but at the same time, these are pretty good prospects with decent upside. That's about all we can hope for with Gagner just a few months shy of 21 and MPS, Eberle and Hall/Seguin having precisely 0 NHL games between them.
ReplyDeleteIf all four pan out close to their upside, great, but it probably isn't going to happen.
Discussion about Malkin this year is exactly the same as discussion about Lecavalier last year and the year before.
ReplyDeleteThey're getting paid to put up points, and they don't have enough of a two-way game to outperform their contracts.
One more for ya R O:
ReplyDeleteWhen it's all said and done, I wouldn't be surprised to see Crosby blow past all of Sakic/Messier/Yzerman in terms of "best centers of all time", sitting behind only Gretzky and Lemieux.
The kid is THAT good. I've firmly believed for 2 years plus that he's the best player in the world, and I think, in spite of the Pens 2nd round "flameout" (translation: the Habs getting lucky), this season validated that belief.
Ovechkin isn't shabby either.
ReplyDeleteWhen it's all said and done, I wouldn't be surprised to see Crosby blow past all of Sakic/Messier/Yzerman in terms of "best centers of all time", sitting behind only Gretzky and Lemieux.
ReplyDeleteYeah, his history just points to a very special player. His historic production in junior was the first sign, and then his incredibly fast transition into the league as a top-flight difference maker.
I mean at 19 or 20 he was already the best player in the league, and incredibly enough he is still improving certain aspects of his game (although faceoffs and shots taken are more than a bit team-dependent too).
On the kids-overrated thing: yeah, if your outlook on these kids is "prospects with terrific history, for whom 'impact forward' is in the range of reasonable expecations", then it's all good.
But (and I don't mean to pick on Steve but the example is handy) if MPS is the stumbling block to acquiring Crosby, you're overrating MPS.
And guys like Traktor (for instance, there are other offenders), well they must be playing it up for comedic effect because the Future Oilers According to Them are somehow in a stratosphere the likes of which nobody has touched since, well, the Oilers of the Mid-Eighties.
A team wins Stanley Cups. A player doesn't.
ReplyDeleteNo to Malkin. No to Crosby.
Whale hunting is for losers.
You guys just want to do more of what Lowe has been doing for the last 4 years. Whale hunting. Where has that gotten the Oilers.
How many Cups did LA win with Gretzky?
A consistent contender is not built by acquiring one player. It is built by building an organization that is constantly developing new players.
R O: I don't think he was the clearly superior player every year.
ReplyDeletePeople were swinging more on Ovy's side until Crosby won the cup.
You guys just want to do more of what Lowe has been doing for the last 4 years. Whale hunting. Where has that gotten the Oilers.
ReplyDeleteHow many Cups did LA win with Gretzky?
Incredibly, I think you're making a comparison between Crosby and Vanek/Penner/Hossa/Heatley/Jagr.
Only Hossa is within reach, but not really.
Also, and I did not know this but Vic is the man, the Oilers' goal differential went down by 60 when Gretzky left, and LA's GD went up by 60. Make of that what you will.
I don't think he was the clearly superior player every year.
ReplyDeletePeople were swinging more on Ovy's side until Crosby won the cup.
They are clearly 1-2 but I think it has been Crosby's for a long time. He is just everywhere on the ice and he rarely cheats for offense. He pursues the puck all the way back behind his goal line when the play dies on him - which is rarely, thus the source of his domination of his opponents.
Ovechkin catalyzes insane offensive pressure and he is in a league above Malkin in terms of helping teams win, despite the surface comparisons of their game. Part of that is that Ovechkin is just better at making plays, even when he is prone to cheating and beating guys at the blue-line somehow the puck always ends up in a scoring area.
And of course the scoring area for Ovechkin is just bigger, so that helps.
Still, Crosby just influences outscoring more IMO, especially when you consider the relative strengths of their two teams (Pitts forward depth is awful).
LT - I agree we're more than one player away, but if you add Malkin the amount of support players you need dwindles and you free up assets to move for those other players. We're suddenly a more attractive team to play for as well. I agree the contract is huge, but so it is with any superstar; and he simply is one.
ReplyDeletespOILer - There are zero guarantees with that draft pick. You know pretty well exactly what you're getting with Malkin (I think anyway, some others seem to want to debate it to death). We all hope either Taylor or Tyler is the Oilers' answer, but even when drafting 1, you're still projecting big-time.
Others - Does anyone really believe there are these mythical players that go around scoring 75-100 points but don't matter? I can't for the life of me understand that logic. It winds up being an argument that starts in stats and winds up in speculation and theory that the opening stats were designed to demonize. Bad form.
Oilers sign Teemu Hartikainen, 3 years, "entry level contract".
ReplyDeleteYahoo!!!
Others - Does anyone really believe there are these mythical players that go around scoring 75-100 points but don't matter? I can't for the life of me understand that logic. It winds up being an argument that starts in stats and winds up in speculation and theory that the opening stats were designed to demonize. Bad form.
ReplyDeleteSources of point production, in no specific order:
1.) Inflated power play icetime.
2.) Inflated even strength ice time.
3.) More shifts starting with the puck in the offensive zone or headed there.
4.) Ice time against weak opposition.
5.) Ice time against tired opposition.
6.) Finishing ability
7.) Ability to drive the puck into the offensive zone and the scoring area.
Nobody brought up statistics here. Every argument is made about the play on the ice. Nobody is denying Malkin does not have finishing ability. Of course he also gets inflated ice time at EV and PP and it's all cushy. If this is beyond your grasp, then, you need a wider reach.
I really wish Tambellini had been able to outbid Sutter for Jokinen at the 2009 deadline. The Oilers fans would have an innate appreciation of how superstar point producers are made and broken.
ReplyDeleteNot that it would have mattered, the Oiler fanbase is currently probably the most enlightened of them all and yet we have such intelligent commentary here as "look at his points and trophies"!
Kent's look at Malkin:
ReplyDeletehttp://flamesnation.ca/2010/5/14/evgeni-malkin-is-overrated
It's nothing that doesn't absolutely confirm what happens on the ice.
Yahoo!!!
ReplyDeleteDouble Yahoo!!!
Who would have thunk that the Oiler blogosphere is full of Ahab's who want to join Kevin Lowe on another whale-hunting expedition?
ReplyDeleteWhat a bunch of hypocrites!
For two years, whale-hunting was mostly condemned, but put the scent of a whale under your guys noses, and many of you turn into Lowe wannabees.
But this whale is different.
Yeah right.
Whale hunting brought the Oilers to 30th place.
Mericifully Tambellini has reached rock bottom and is not longer in denial.
Many of the people on this blog still have a ways to fall to hit rock bottom.
wow...and then the debate raged about how great a penguin's player is...citing quotes from a Flame's blogger.
ReplyDeleteif i'm getting this straight, the oiler's should trade everyone for crosby because he's the best player since Rocket Richard and then we should risk waivers on him so that OKLA can sell some tickets in the AHL...
Huh, a little daydreaming about Crosby and we're all whale hunters now. No to Malkin at that price thanks. For Crosby/Ovechkin? At that price for sure. It wouldn't even really affect the rebuild since they're both still young (unless it caused them to give up on the rebuild).
ReplyDeleteAnd hat tip to R O. Good input amidst the sea of noise and static these days, and from a Flames fan no less.