And in that one very important way, Sheldon Souray has a place in Edmonton Oilers history.
- Boxcars: 37gp, 4-9-13
- Shots: 113
- Plus Minus: -19
- Corsi (Rel): 8.3 (1st among D)
- GF/GA ON: 21-35
- 5x5/60: 0.89 (2nd among D's)
- 5x4/60: 2.08 (2nd among D's)
- Quality of Competition: 2nd toughest among D's
- Quality of Teammates: 3rd best among D's
- Offensive Zone Start FO %: 52.2% (easiest among D's)
- Cap Hit: $5,400,000
- What do these numbers tell us? When you hire a defenseman to blast bullets from the point on the PP, make sure he can stay healthy. Because if he gets hurt a lot you're left with a $5.4M one-dimensional albatross that might be impossible to trade (have we heard Sather's fate yet?). That contract is a wearisome burden.
- How could these numbers be better? Health. Sheldon Souray wasn't able to stay healthy during his time in Edmonton. Call it bad luck or call it bad bet, makes no nevermind.
- Will they trade him? They have to and yet it may not be possible. Souray is an extremely risky 5.4M contract, among the worst in the NHL. The Oilers are going to have to take on a problem contract of their own to get him out of town, plus give up something extra for the opportunity. The Oilers since 2006 summer offer sober warning to those who spend cap money like a drunken sailor.
- Has he really been injured a lot? Yes. Yes he has. Wrists, feet, knees, shoulders. Playing NHL defense is a pretty tough thing to do and he's been at it awhile.
- How much damage did he do with those comments? He did every Oiler fan a favor. The line "its not a players thing. It’s not a fans thing or a city thing. It’s a management thing" should ring in your ears until this team does 12 smart things in a row. Better pack a lunch, it's going to take awhile.
- How important is Souray to the organization? He's a pivotal player in Oilers history (unless Oiler fans are content with finishing out of the playoffs forever) because there's just no way to go back again. Bringing Souray, Moreau and any number of veterans back again for next season is impossible because its out there now. The team may even trade Hemsky and Horcoff just to cut the ties completely. I think the organization itself would like to back over him with their magic Zamboni.
By The Numbers
- 08-09 5x5 per 60m: 1.18
- 09-10 5x5 per 60m: 0.89
By The Numbers
- 08-09 5x4 per 60m: 2.95
- 09-10 5x4 per 60m: 2.08
Performance in 2009-10: 37gp, 4-9-13 (.351)
Projected Role in 2009-10: NHL defenseman when he's healthy
I think the Caps meltdown paves the way for a deal with the Oilers involving Souray. There was smoke at the deadline about Washington being interested in Souray.
ReplyDeleteI would argue that the Caps need to make changes as much as the Oilers do. Maybe not big changes but they need better goaltending and some help on the blueline.
Match made in heaven.... I would kill to get Backstrom but that's California Dreaming.
The more interesting part of this picutre is what's going on in th background.
ReplyDeleteWolfie: Maybe something like Alzner or Kugryshev would be more reasonable.
ReplyDeleteLove all the posts LT. I read numerous times a day to check in on the posts.
ReplyDeletepolite suggestion for next time (assuming there is a next time to do the reports: include age/size weight along with the stats. I know it's found elsewhere and sometimes included in the posts...but it may be handy to have with the rest of the info
Keep up the excellent work.
Do you have a paypal for donations?
I'm still holding out in trading Souray to Colorado for Liles, a deal that makes sense for both sides.
ReplyDeleteSounds like the Rangers are the front runners these days, with Rozsival being the target. A deal that is kinda meh, but if thats as good as it gets, I guess so.
"Everyone" is saying the Oilers should trade for a shutdown Dman, but Whitney and Gilbert are the shutdown pair, do the Oilers really need another shutdown Dman considering the other Dmen will be Smid, Peckham, and probably Johnson? Looks like the Oilers need a cannon and someone who can skate the puck.
Is it too late to trade Souray for Visnovsky?
Right now Mike Green should be available, straight up for Souray.
ReplyDeleteI hope Souray stays. he's one of the coolest players I can remember well in Oiler silks, plays like he gives a damn, and pound for pound has got to be the hardest sob in the NHL.
ReplyDeleteMake him the next captain.
Souray turned down a trade to the Caps at the deadline.
ReplyDeleteUnrelated post alert.
ReplyDeleteI was daydreaming about a Habs-Canucks SCF. I'd rather see the Canucks go down in 4 to Chicago, but still, 2 Canuck teams... I mean two Canadian teams... hmm. This is tough to phrase without bias.
Anyway, I was wondering when the last time two Canadian teams faced each other for Stanley (Flames/Habs, not so long ago actually) and discovered a fun little stat:
it's happened eight times in history, and every single time, one of the two teams has been the Montreal Canadiens (well, Montreal Mauraders once).
Can't see them getting past Pittsburgh, but then I couldn't see them getting past the Caps either.
Souray turns down trades, yet asks to be traded?
ReplyDeleteThis alcohol stuff is starting to get to me :)
This is one of my favourite posts about one of my least favourite players.
ReplyDeleteSouray turned down a trade to the Caps at the deadline.
ReplyDeleteReally? Is he retarded?
Souray turned down a trade to the Caps at the deadline.
ReplyDeletePardon me? Where did you hear this? I'm not doubting, I just did not hear this anywhere.
Caps lost because for some inexplicable reason they refused to try and create offense from the slot, and took a million shots from the outside.
ReplyDeleteThey could have had 100 shots tonight and would have lost, because guys like Semin and Green didn't have the balls to cut to the middle or drive the net.
I don't know how Montreal convinced them they had a 27 year old Scott Stevens back there, but all due respect to Halak... that's why the Habs won.
Fuck.
And I'm calling bogus on the Souray rumor, given the fact he couldn't be traded due to an infection in his hand...
ReplyDelete"its not a players thing. It’s not a fans thing or a city thing. It’s a management thing"
ReplyDeleteLT - I think you are right that we need to listen to that.
Do you think that the problem may have been trying to remake the 'boys on the bus' attitude that kind of was here through the 90's and early 00's? The 'we all dine together, etc'. Guys like Doug Weight indicated that the team had a special togetherness (so, its not just the Gtetzky's we are talking about).
I wonder if this type of attitude is easiest through drafting/building from youth because you trade for Pronger or Souray and pretty soon its - "I can't go with you guys cause my wife wants to go to this French restaurant she read about".
I wonder if the plan now is to abandon the "Oilers are special" theme and go with "Hockey is a profession" or if its to build that 'special Oilers Culture' again with youth.
It will be interesting to see it come together. I do think youth is the plan and that it is possible that we see Hemsky traded for a 1st rounder, particularly if he doesn't fit whatever team mentality they are choosing to go with.
Pardon me? Where did you hear this? I'm not doubting, I just did not hear this anywhere.
ReplyDeleteWhen someone says something that 'out there' and doesn't provide any supporting evidence, I pretty much assume that he is either a troll or the voices in his head told him. Either way, probably best to ignore.
I can't play video, but maybe people here are interested.
ReplyDeleteWinnie Phan talks about throwing out a better first pitch than Dany Heatley
Sounds like the guy should have spent a day in Trail the last time he visited the BC interior.
The whole Souray thing was the Oiler management buying into the idea that a game in October is worth the same as any other game in the season, so much so that they took on a horrendous contract to avoid that fate.
Lowe never managed to grasp that you can't get the players you want just by throwing more money around. If anything, he spent too much time burning up the wires, and not enough venting the bad smell.
Hockey unlike other team sports is relatively simple: Stick the right mix of talent and grit together and presto! You win.
ReplyDeleteOilers have got some seriously talented youngsters in the pipeline; Eberle, MPS, and possibly Hall.
Pat Quinn I can see coaching them also, he won't screw up their heads, although he's no long term solution either.
I forsee a very bright future, provided management doesn't fuck it all up.
Was it me, or did anyone else notice the similarity between the Russians in the Olympics and the Capitals v the Habs.
ReplyDeleteThey could have had 100 shots tonight and would have lost, because guys like Semin and Green didn't have the balls to cut to the middle or drive the net.
ReplyDeleteGreen doesn't make the best decisions but having no balls is not one of the knocks on the guy.
Sorry LT for this off-topic post, but what if Seguin follows this career path
ReplyDeletehttp://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=31823
Winnie Phan talks about throwing out a better first pitch than Dany Heatley
ReplyDeleteSomething about that makes me warm and fuzzy inside!
I would argue that the Caps need to make changes as much as the Oilers do. Maybe not big changes but they need better goaltending and some help on the blueline.
ReplyDeleteSemyon Varlamov, who was drafted two years after Devan Dubnyk and four years after Jeff Deslauriers had a 0.909 SV% in the regular season and a 0.908 SV% in the post-season.
I'd argue that their starting goaltender for years to come is probably going to be provided by that guy.
Second, given that Sheldon Souray's averaged 48 games per season as an Oiler, earns significant money and that the Capitals have guys that are going to get paid, I just don't see him as a fit on that blue-line long term.
Right now Mike Green should be available, straight up for Souray.
ReplyDeleteI assume you're indulging in hyperbole, but just in case you aren't:
Sheldon Souray - 144 games played over the last three seasons.
Mike Green - 149 points recorded over the last two seasons.
That's leaving aside more subjective valuations, like the fact Green's been a Norris candidate in each of the last two years.
They could have had 100 shots tonight and would have lost, because guys like Semin and Green didn't have the balls to cut to the middle or drive the net.
ReplyDeleteOr Mike Knuble could have slowed down a little bit on his drive to the net and the game would have gone to overtime...
Souray for Alzner is NOT reasonable. Not even close fpb. Alzner will be a more valuable player next year straight up (never mind the next 10 years). Then there is the salary cap thing...
ReplyDeleteSouray for anyone with a cap hit of less than 5.4 over the next two years (and no longer) and it's a deal.
As stated, Rozival straight up makes sense for the Oilers. At least he'll be out there 80 games a year...
As for making Souray Captain...? That MUST be sarcasm.
Green's Relative Corsi number this series was +26, which was by far the best on the team. His even strength save percentage was .846. Now, he isn't Lidstrom back there as you could see on the game-winner, but I'm guessing he just ran into some bad luck this series on the defensive end.
ReplyDeleteGreen's Relative Corsi number this series was +26, which was by far the best on the team. His even strength save percentage was .846. Now, he isn't Lidstrom back there as you could see on the game-winner, but I'm guessing he just ran into some bad luck this series on the defensive end.
ReplyDeleteThis is the worst case scenario of someone using "advanced statistics" in lieu of actually watching a player play. Ben, did you watch the series? Green was absolutely abysmal for large portions of it. I know points are sexy, but the guy is an absolute train-wreck in his own end, and his reads in the neutral zone and in defensive transition are horrible.
Yeah, he wasn't great defensively, but I still don't think he played as poorly as most of the scuttlebutt on message boards indicates, who seem to think he's the second coming of Housley. I think there is a bit of observer bias there.
ReplyDeleteLT, excellent point on Sourays legacy with the franchise. I'd wager that if Sourays public thrashing was the final straw to break the unwavering ego of the franchise, and inject some humility, then let's name the guy MVP retrocatovely fore every season since the much maligned contract was signed.
ReplyDeleteFunny I was on the hope we lose bandwagon early on with a few of the guys. My reasoning was I wanted things to become so septic in the town that the fans and press finally held the Oilers accountable. The press never really did say much. Sourays condemnation was most unexpected, and most welcomed.
I don't know what's been said on message boards (I can imagine), but I think he WAS that bad. Especially given that he said before the series how much he wanted to improve his defensive game. And let's be honest, if he had made an impact offensively then you could almost forgive him. But he didn't even do that, and that's what he's paid to do. There's already one Tom Poti on that team. Maybe we are both on the extreme edges of the argument and the truth is somewhere closer to the middle, but I thought he was bad.
ReplyDeletewow some of you are really dreaming with your trades for Sour-ay....Backstrom, Green, Liles, even Alzner is a stretch. the oilers are going to be lucky to get a second or third rounder because nobody is going to want to take on that ridiculous contract.
ReplyDeleteI project he will still be an Oiler come October. Maybe it will motivate him to play better so they can trade him mid season. I like that scenario better.
Sorry LT for this off-topic post, but what if Seguin follows this career path
ReplyDeletehttp://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=31823
Or this one?
And from Puck Daddy...
ReplyDeleteUnhappy with his pregame role, Heatley immediately demanded a trade to the Oakland A's ...
Bendelson said...
ReplyDeleteSouray for anyone with a cap hit of less than 5.4 over the next two years (and no longer) and it's a deal.
I'd consider another alternative - the same or bigger cap hit, but just for next year only.
Reading comments. Yeah the Caps shooted from every angle possible and it was often stupid.
ReplyDeleteI remember seeing a play in Montreal where they were on a 4 on 2 and made like 5 passes after entering the zone. In this series they just took a shot from the blue.
But as for Semin and others, give credits to the D-Mans who played stick to stick hockey. Most of the slot shots were blocked.
But heh that's how you play when your opponent is vastly superior to you. Limit theyr good chances, a red hot goalie and opportunism.
There's not a million ways.
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ReplyDeleteBecause Souray was attractive, local and imposing and willing to play here the following will never be given it's proper coverage but his is one of the worst contracts in Oilers history.
ReplyDeleteOr this one?
ReplyDeleteDifference being, Stamkos had 2 solid seasons leading to his draft year.
With Seguin, it's a riskier pick because he doesn't have history on his side.
Just like Legwand.