The ongoing saga of Riley Nash and his relationship with the Edmonton Oilers went a little public last night during "The Pipeline Show" with Dean Millard and Guy Flaming.The interview is here.
Nash said "right now I'm not in a real hurry to sign and go to Springfield. If I was that would already have happened by now. I'm talking with my advisor and I think Edmonton has a lot of things on the go in trying to sort everything out there. It is a long process, I'm in no hurry to sign anything, especially when we have all summer. Just trying to iron out the details and see what happens."
Millard then asked a very specific question in regard to free agency outside the Oilers.
Millard: "The option of going back for your senior year and then becoming a free agent after that; is that something you're considering at all?"
Nash: "Well when you're three years in obviously it crosses your mind. I really like Edmonton and what they're doing, I think they have a lot of good years ahead of them. At the same time I have to see what is best for me. My main goal is to play in the NHL in the next few years, and that is what it comes down to. I want to help an organization in the NHL and fulfill that dream. I'm not saying that is exactly what I'm going to do, I've talked to my advisor and we go around in circles about what is going to happen here. I'm in no hurry to sign anything, but at the same time I'd like to get on with my professional career."
We've discussed the relationship between this player and the organization at great length since summer 2007. I don't get the same conclusions drawn by Millard and Flaming last night. It sounds to me as though this is a kid who might be feeling the Oilers have lost some faith in him (and comments by Kevin Prendergast over the years likely added to this). Since this young man wants to play in the NHL and the Oilers clearly want him to sign, it would seem to me that reasonable men should he able to come to an agreement.
Nash appears to be a "free thinker" who has a wider view of the world. The NHL doesn't like this kind of individual, it makes them nervous. A textbook study in this regard is available with a quick review of the career of Ken Dryden, another Cornell hockey player who once sat out an entire season just to win a battle against Sam Pollock.
--
This is a fan blog. I have no access to Nash, Prendergast or any of the people involved in this story. This guy may well sign as a free agent in 2011 and the Oilers could be left with a lesser pick many years after selecting him. However, I don't think this story is over and I don't think this is as one-sided as it may appear.
Guys like Riley Nash try the patience of organizations and their fanbase when they choose to take their time or choose not to follow the rules (as dictated by sport and tradition). I don't think any of that matters to Riley Nash.
Good for him.
It is understandable for Nash to take a long time to "assess" the Oilers organization. If I was going to contract my services for a few years I am sure I would take some time before committing to the worst business in the industry. It just makes sense.
ReplyDeleteWould seem that this all comes back to the fact that he's never been on the same page as the org in terms of development. He's obviously not appreciated the comments hurled by KP and he's also probably surveyed that there are several people fighting for the same job.
ReplyDeleteSo if you had a choice of riding busses in OKC or getting an education at Cornell and delaying by 1 year your entry, what would you do - especially if you don't like the way you've been treated (right or wrong)?
I'm not as certain as others that someone like Nash would survey the competition and seek refuge elsewhere. My exposure to pro athletes is somewhat limited but in talking to a few there was never a feeling that they shied away from competition.
ReplyDeleteA more likely reason would be the Oilers poor development record. I've said this a few times: the Oilers draft well but haven't developed their procured talent responsibly this decade.
Nash, being a smart fellow, might look at the first rounders who came before him (especially the ones drafted around #21) and see a future that looks less than attractive.
If you were Riley Nash's Dad, would you prefer him in Edmonton's organization or Detroit's? Detroit has a lot of depth but imo most people would say Detroit.
If you were Riley Nash's Dad, would you prefer him in Edmonton's organization or Detroit's? Detroit has a lot of depth but imo most people would say Detroit.
ReplyDeleteIf I'm his dad I'd prefer that he end up with a team that will let him stick in the NHL for the duration of his entry-level deal. A couple of million dollars later and my boy is set for life.
At that point I don't care if it's Detroit, Edmonton, or the Florida Panthers.
LT
ReplyDeleteWho has been in charge of development the last decade? Is it KP?
Who ever it is they need to go. Not only do we not develop we also hold on to them until they are completely worthless. They don't seem to trade them before it's too late.
That's an absolutely perfect picture for this LT. I love how the reflection of Nash Off the table mirros the two-sided story we're getting about this prospect. Very Nice.
ReplyDeleteCan Riley sign a deal and then go back and finish his degree/diploma at Cornell next year? Or does he have to play AHL/NHL once that deal is signed? I know there have been comments made about having the option of playing pro and going back to Cornell for spring-summer sessions to finish the program. Even if that is an option, I don't know how realistic a plan that is, especially for Riley. There will certainly be a big emphasis on off-season training for a guy with a big frame and not-so-much meat on him.
As much as it would sting to see the Oilers waste two top 40 picks to get Nash and then have him walk ala Wheeler, I like Nash's attitude. Seriously, he seems like a smart and strong willed young man (with just a slight bit of selfishness). Seriously, I think I would like that in a NHL centre: a thinking player, with enough ego to take shots when they are in position to score.
ReplyDeleteI also agree that we hear Nash's story before we judge him, but I don't think that will happen. No matter the 2007 draft will be a pyrrhic victory for the Oilers . . . Ganger = victory, while 2 high picks for Nash and a flyer on Plante = Devastating loss (and I like Plante, I think?)
Nash for GM! Seriously, he sounds like a bright kid.
ReplyDeleteThe grey is much better, LT. My eyeballs thank you.
Can Riley sign a deal and then go back and finish his degree/diploma at Cornell next year? Or does he have to play AHL/NHL once that deal is signed?
ReplyDeleteOnce you sign a pro contract you cannot play NCAA.
Once you sign a pro contract you cannot play NCAA.
ReplyDeleteI love the games they play. Nash doesn't have an agent, that would imply he's a professional. He has an advisor.
Didn't Millard say that Nash gave no indication that he would spend 4 full years in college? I'm pretty sure the Oilers mentioned he was Cornell bound at the draft?
ReplyDelete5 Mock drafts from NHL.com:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=523128&navid=DL|NHL|DraftMicrosite2010
There seems to be an awful big space between being in "no hurry to sign" and "looking to start his pro career."
ReplyDeleteI'll go out on a limb and say he's looking for allowances and promises; thinks like getting a fair shake to make the club and so on and so forth.
He's coming in on his terms or he's not coming at all.
Now we know there's an interview process before the draft and what did the Oilers miss with this kid? Any org that employs Lowe as their GM should shy away from kids who have their own minds and is that something we can all agree upon?
Good thing Cornell is a long way from Edmonton or Mr. Nash might wake up this morning and find his car blocked in by a zamboni.
ReplyDeleteOnce you sign a pro contract you cannot play NCAA.
ReplyDeleteI don't think Jordan was implying that he'd go back to play hockey, just to finish his education. That's the way I read it, anyway.
A little light CBA reading for you:
ReplyDeleteI'm typing this out as I can't cut and paste this document as either a PDF or Word file...weird.
The two sections that pertain to Nash's situation if he stays in school, or goes pro this year:
C) College Players
i) If a Player drafted at age 18 or 19 is a bona fide college student at the time of his selection in the Entry Draft, or becomes a bana fide college student prior to the first June 1 followign his selection in the Entry Draft, and remains a bona fide college student through the graduation of his college class, his drafting Club shall retain the exclusive rights of negotiation for his services through and including the August 1 following the graduation of his college class. The Club need not make a Bona Fide Offer to such Player to retain such rights.
ii) If a Player drafted at age 18 or 19 is a bona fide college student at the time of his selection in the Entry Draft, or becomes a bona fide college student prior to the first June 1 following his selection in the Entry Draft, and does not remain a bona fide college student through the graduation of his college class, his drafting Club shall retain exclusive rights for the negotiation of his services until the fourth June 1 following his selection in the Entry Draft. The Club need not make a Bona Fide Offer to such a Player to retain such rights.
Woodguy:
ReplyDeleteThose were the sections I was looking at when I made my response to you in the last thread.
I'm not quite sure what happens after June 1, 2011, or after August 15, 2011? I believe in the case of June 1, he'd go right into the 2011 draft, but maybe there's a signing window beforehand, where Nash is a UFA?
With the Aug 15th date, I'm pretty sure he's a UFA, but I'm unsure if he'd go into the 2012 draft provided he didn't sign with someone at some point before the 2012 draft. Obviously it'll be tough to ever figure this out through examples, since it's probably fair to assume a team would rather just sign the guy vs drafting him so if some team wants him, he'll be signed before the 2012 draft.
I really don't see the problem with Nash playing out his final year at Cornell. Management needs to stop with the criticisms and pressure, sit down with the kid and sell him on the future of the organization and his place in it. Another year in the NCAA isn't going to kill his development - this club arguably isn't ready for him until at least the 2012 or 2013 season anyways. If he's a thinking man, then treat him like one. Obviously time for a different approach. How is Prendergast still employed???
ReplyDeleteHow big a problem is communication with the Oilers draft picks?
ReplyDeleteIf Nash is not feeling the love, why is that?
Didn't we have one of our Euro picks (Omark?)indicate a lack of communication?
Speeds,
ReplyDeleteI'm squinting at the CBA trying to figure out exactly what his status would be and all I'm getting is a headache.
I get the impression that there's a lack of communication not only with prospects, but roster players as well.
ReplyDeleteI think we all recall the Omark thing, but also reading about how these guys don't seem to hear from the org directly in the summertime.
I don't know about you, but if I were running a professional team, I'd at least touch base to say hello regularly.
So what I get is that if:
ReplyDeletei) Nash stays in school until graduation (which is spring 2011), the Oilers retain his rights until Aug 1, 2011
ii) Nash leaves school BEFORE graduating, the Oilers retain his rights until June 1 2011.
So if Nash wants to leave school now, he has no choice but to sign with the Oilers if he wants to play pro hockey in North America.
If he wants options he has to wait until next summer.
So, if Nash does not complete his fourth year for whatever reason, the Oilers have his rights until June 1, 2011. If he remains at Cornell and graduates in April/May 2011, the Oilers have his rights until August 1, 2011? Then if we don't sign him, he enters the draft of 2012 or is a free agent?
ReplyDelete@ Woodguy
ReplyDeleteThat makes sense.
Shades of the first Comrie signing? Like then, the Oilers are running out of time to sign their draft pick before losing their rights to him. The Oilers ended up having to overpay Mike on that initial contract and that was the first blood drawn in the Lowe/Comrie fued.
ReplyDeleteNash, like Comrie before him, has the best hand in the poker game and is willing to play it out. The first big question is; have the Oilers learned anything from the Comrie fiasco? The team has to avoid getting emotionally involved and just do what is best for the organization.
The second big question; what is Nash holding out for? Certain contractural issues are constrained by the CBA, so there seems to be more than money involved this time. If Nash thinks he is too good for the AHL we may be in for a showdown. There are already too many rookies slated for this fall's edition of the Oil without pencilling in Nash.
@hoil
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers of late are apparently averse to learning lessons
Hoil: The only thing I can think of that he might be holding out for is a shot at the NHL this year. If he plays NHL games this year, that will start the clock on his ELC, correct? That would get him closer to a less tightly constrained payday faster.
ReplyDeleteJust throwing it out there: Is there a girl invloved in this decision? That always muddy's the waters.
ReplyDeleteIt was Chris Pronger's wife in Cornell with the baby furniture!
ReplyDeleteIt's always Chris Pronger's wife. Always.
MattM: Because of his age, the clock is running regardless of whether he's in the AHL or the NHL.
ReplyDeleteI'd assume the reason he's intent on the NHL starts with a 7 and is followed by five zeros.
Schitzo: But that was not the case with Petry? Or did I misread something in a previous thread yesterday? I get that the clock is ticking on his UFA regardless, but I thought that the entry level contract itself worked differently. I forget where this was, but yesterday someone was pointing out that in the case of college guys who sign after their year ends, if they play in the NHL at all it takes a year off their ELC (the example was Hanson last year for the Leafs).
ReplyDeleteHere's a crazy thought. Maybe he actually likes school and doesn't see any reason to rush into his pro career.
ReplyDeleteMaybe there are things the kid cares about more than becoming a pro hockey player. I call it Dustin Penner Syndrome, or DPS.
MattM - my apologizes, I didn't see that you were talking about this year. I thought you meant starting a fresh season in the fall.
ReplyDeleteNash was born in May of '89, so he will be deemed to be 21 if he signs a contract this year. (The CBA uses "age as of September 15 of the year of signing").
I don't see any difference between playing in the NHL and AHL - that difference exists for 18 and 19 year old players, but not those who are older.
I think if you play pro hockey whatsoever the same year you leave school, it burns a year.
The Pipeline Show blog wrote a defense of Kevin Prendergast a few months ago. They appear to be spreading disinformation that the Prendergast did NOT know Nash was going to Cornell. So just so we know who's side they are on.
ReplyDeleteI think Tambellini should keep Prendergast as far away from Riley Nash as he can. Steve's kid went to college. He should be able to relate much better. Quinn also went to law school.
As I said before. Nash has something most other hockey prospect doesn't have...i.e.options, and one has to respect his options, or you "lose" the player.
Ok, I see the difference now in the Wheeler situation. Under the old CBA, you could not re-enter the draft if you were 21+ and played hockey in North America. The new CBA changes this and says that you are undraftable at age 21+ if you have never been drafted before
ReplyDeleteAs it relates to leaving school, the old CBA said that:
may be retained on the Reserve List of the claiming Club as an "unsigned draft choice"
so long as he remains a bona fide college student and thereafter for 180 days plus the period between the end of said 180 days and
the next June 1; provided always that such a player may at any time by notice in writing delivered to the claiming Club, with copy to the Central Registry, declare his desire to be tendered a Player Contract with that Club.
(iii) If the claiming Club fails to tender to the claimed player a contract within thirty days of filing of the
notice by the claimed player in the Central Registry, the player shall be eligible for selection in the next Entry Draft if he is otherwise eligible in accordance with Section 8.4(a).
So that's the old CBA - you could deliver a 30-day ultimatum and either re-enter the draft (20 or younger) or become a UFA (21+). To be honest, I'm surprised that rejecting the Coyote's offer allowed Wheeler to do this, but apparently it worked.
Anyways, this is absolutely not the case under the current CBA - there is no 30-day ultimatum, and the 21+ rule only applies to players who were undrafted the first go-around. Nash would for sure re-enter the draft.
Nash is either very smart or very stupid.
ReplyDeleteAm I the only one that thinks that Nash looks like a dick in his pictures?
ReplyDeleteRegardless, the people at the draft table must have interviewed this kid, and either he was disingenuous or they couldn't understand all the big words he was using.
Maybe there are things the kid cares about more than becoming a pro hockey player.
ReplyDeleteAnother way of saying young and dumb. From his position maybe he doesn't realize how shitty most people's lives truly are compared to someone making 7 figures to play a game. Even most people with solid education and jobs have to toil for every penny and worry about the mortgage and the car and the kids.
NHL careers are short. Wasting a (healthy) year because you want to hang out with your college buddies is incredibly dumb. If he doesn't want it there's a lot of guys fighting for his spot who realize their alternative is to be a tradesman or sit behind a desk and fossilize for 40+ years. Not that I'm belittling those paths but let's be honest guys, who wouldn't rather play hockey for 10 years and end up sitting on an 8 figure net worth? That's no guarantee for Nash, but every inch of leverage he pisses away is like a mile in his life.
Devin, I pretty much agree with you, except that I doubt Nash sees the choice as a lifetime of pencil pushing vs. a lifetime of glamorous professional sports. Chances are he's not in the NHL next year either way, so we're talking about college vs. AHL for 1 season.
ReplyDeleteIf hockey isn't his number one priority, the trade off might be worth it for him. It's why I made the analogy to Penner. I don't get the impression that Dustin Penner loves playing hockey, but of course he will as long as someone is willing to pay him 4.5 million/year to do it.
I get the impression that there's a lack of communication not only with prospects, but roster players as well.
ReplyDeleteI think we all recall the Omark thing, but also reading about how these guys don't seem to hear from the org directly in the summertime.
I don't know about you, but if I were running a professional team, I'd at least touch base to say hello regularly.
Of all of the guys I've talked to so far, only VandeVelde said he had regular contact with the Oilers. Some were like Wild and Dee and had no contact.
I also don't think it's very fair to suggest that the only reason someone would want to finish college is for the extra year of hanging out with buddies. For some people, a degree is something to be very proud of, especially from a school like Cornell. Maybe hedging his bets long term is worth the lost pro season to him. Maybe he wants a bankable fall-back career in case he breaks his neck in his first season.
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteNHL careers are short. Wasting a (healthy) year because you want to hang out with your college buddies is incredibly dumb. If he doesn't want it there's a lot of guys fighting for his spot who realize their alternative is to be a tradesman or sit behind a desk and fossilize for 40+ years.
If he doesn't make the NHL, he makes more his first year out of Cornell (with a degree) compared to his AHL salary.
I don't get the impression that Dustin Penner loves playing hockey,
ReplyDeleteOh, do tell how you've come to this conclusion.
1. If we're talking about hags and the difference they've made to Oilers hockey did anyone else know that not only was Pronger's missus a Stl native, so was the Academy Award winning Janet Jones. The first time I read that it blew me away.
ReplyDelete2. Finally some baseball levity and a clip of LT fave Earl Weaver going profanely nuts; I listened to this and loved it and wondered how many games he'd be suspended for by Selig if he did this in 2010.
http://deadspin.com/5506297/baltimore-orioles-the-stacked-deck
It's a link to a Deadspin Orioles preview but you'll clearly see the You Tube window to hear Weaver:)
Oh, do tell how you've come to this conclusion.
ReplyDeleteHeh. Call it a gut feeling.
//I don't get the impression that Dustin Penner loves playing hockey, but of course he will as long as someone is willing to pay him 4.5 million/year to do it.//
ReplyDeleteWhy would you get that impression? Penner peristed in playing hockey over and over again when he was young when a professional hockey career was hopeless. Penner has persisted in playing hockey even though he was the chosen whipping boy of more than one coach. Penner has a lifetime of people telling him that he couldn't play hockey.
99.9% of people would have quit along the way.
There appears to be a technical issue of timing regarding Nash's alternatives. If he does not sign and becomes draft-eligible on Aug 2, 2011. The next draft is not until June 2012. What is his standing for the 2011-12 season?
ReplyDeleteAnswering this may make his strategy clearer.
Deano
If he doesn't make the NHL, he makes more his first year out of Cornell (with a degree) compared to his AHL salary.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure Argiculture and Life Sciences is as lucrative as you might suspect.
Given the nature of this Riley's major I don't think we should be assuming he is running intellectual circles around the Oilers org.
And maybe he's pulling down solid 2.5's. There are tonnes of dummies in college.
Penner peristed in playing hockey over and over again when he was young when a professional hockey career was hopeless. Penner has persisted in playing hockey even though he was the chosen whipping boy of more than one coach. Penner has a lifetime of people telling him that he couldn't play hockey.
ReplyDeleteOver and over when a professional career was hopeless? I know he had injury troubles when he was younger, but he was what, 20, when he got a scholarship to Maine? He then went on to the NCAA finals and was signed right out of college. He was playing in the Western Conference final against Edmonton within 2 years.
I didn't mean it as a knock on Penner when I said I didn't think he loved hockey. I like the player, but it's not like I'm the first person to suggest he has motivation problems at times. If someone offered me an education and/or a contract to make millions of dollars working as a chef, I'd probably take them up on it, even though I can't say I particularly love to cook.
To be fair, Nash does look like a giant dickhead.
ReplyDeleteThere are tonnes of dummies in college.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I think that's something we can all agree on. And based on how heavily he seems to be leaning on the advice of his "adviser", there's definitely a good chance that this has nothing to do with the academic high road. I just don't think we should be jumping to wild conclusions about him until all the cards are on the table.
For some people, a degree is something to be very proud of
ReplyDeleteSo go back and finish in due time. It's not a big deal (I did it - leaving school at the 11th hour then finishing up when I had time - in a somewhat comparable situation).
He won't make the NHL unless he goes and develops in the A. He's not guaranteed anything and he's a marginal bet to be a quality NHL'er so he should be doing everything he can to maximize his chances at an NHL career. From his position it's a short journey to career minor-leaguer.
Some indication from Tambellini on Oilers lunch today that the organization is leaning toward Seguin over all. Compared Chris Gratton and Jason Arnott going head to head in junior playoffs and how Gratton dominated the series because he was more physically mature.
ReplyDeleteSeeing as how Hall creates a lot of his opportunities at this point through strength over other playoffs it's reasonable to conclude that Hall is Gratton in this comparison.
Also spoke a little bit about how projection factors are important in making the choice of who to draft.
It seems to me that the people that are pissed off at Nash are younger and see Nash as wasting an opportunity. The people that have taken a more understanding stance have the longer lens of life.
ReplyDeleteFrom above, Hunter of course, isn't sure.
Not that either side is right, it's just interesting that it breaks out that way.
I'm not surprised that Lowe's puppet would begin leaning towards Seguin because we've seen in the past couple of days where Matheson and perhaps even Gregor say that's how the Oilers may be going so that's the biggest hint we need; all the MSM colour between the lines in Edm and as a treat they get fed the odd tidbit.
ReplyDeleteSometimes they also get something for their eyebags as well.
I have a lot of vitriol for the Nash situation but most of it rests with the organization. Nash is free to do whatever he pleases. It's the organization's job to find out what he wants and what he plans on doing before he's drafted. It's one of the few useful things you could get out of pre-draft interviews.
ReplyDeleteThat being said, I'm still convinced that Nash is looking for an out from the organization. He seems to want a one-way ticket from college to the NHL while the Oilers have been taking the stance that he needs time in the AHL regardless of how long he's in college. I think the organization is probably right about the correct developmental path, but again I get the feeling they didn't ask the guy too much about his plans for getting to the NHL.
Goddamn, my post about Hall is littered with typos. The first all should be Hall, while in the second paragraph playoffs should be players.
ReplyDelete//He seems to want a one-way ticket from college to the NHL while the Oilers have been taking the stance that he needs time in the AHL regardless of how long he's in college.//
ReplyDeleteThis is absurd. Every prospect knows that the entry level contract is a two-way contract.
Seeing as how Hall creates a lot of his opportunities at this point through strength over other players it's reasonable to conclude that Hall is Gratton in this comparison.
ReplyDeleteI think that's an absolutely valid concern. I mean heck, we have one of those on our roster. Brule couldn't do a quarter of the stuff in the NHL that he used to routinely do in junior.
The Oilers are going to balance the expectations in the media with regard to who they are going to take, certainly at least until after the lottery. If you lose the lottery, you don't want the player you end up with feeling like you were their second choice.
ReplyDeleteThe Edmonton media has been hyping Hall all winter. It is time to balance the hype in case we lose the lottery and end up with Seguin.
It is usually best to keep the charade going right up till draft day in case it forces the team with the #2 to make a ridulous offer to move up a spot.
If he doesn't make the NHL, he makes more his first year out of Cornell (with a degree) compared to his AHL salary.
ReplyDeleteWhile that might true (in the current US economy that's not a slam dunk given the top AHL rookie salary is $70K), the entry level NHL contract is more than 95% of executives make, including many CEO's.
Who knows how quick he reaches the NHL, but once he's there, its not even close, and I'm sure he knows that that, he seems pretty smart.
I don't understand the vitrol towards the player, his choices are his own, regardless of whether or not we agree.
@ GoDot10
ReplyDelete"The Pipeline Show blog wrote a defense of Kevin Prendergast a few months ago. They appear to be spreading disinformation that the Prendergast did NOT know Nash was going to Cornell. So just so we know who's side they are on."
1) I DID write a defence of KP and stand by it.
2) We are NOT spreading disinformation about Nash going to Cornell. Dean's comment yesterday was in regards to 4 years at Cornell, not simply going to Cornell. Thanks to "Oilman" who commented above to that point, LT simply misheard that part of the conversation from last night.
Thanks.
Nash is enrolled in the #5 ranked undergraduate business program in the US. He won't make 7 figures the first year out with this degree, but he won't be waiting tables, either. Oh, and while in school he gets to work out and play some hockey so it isn't like he is completely wasting the year, either.
ReplyDeleteI don't really care about Nash. He can do what he likes. I suspect he would like some sort of idea what the Oilers have planned for him and that he'll get a fair shot to make the big club.
ReplyDelete//2) We are NOT spreading disinformation about Nash going to Cornell. Dean's comment yesterday was in regards to 4 years at Cornell, not simply going to Cornell.//
ReplyDeleteLike i said. Disinformation. Which is what (2) is, since by saying "4 years" one is attempting to frame the issue to obscure the truth, that it was well known before the draft that Nash was going to Cornell.
I didn't criticize your defense of Prendergast. I just noted which side "you" are on. And there is nothing wrong with picking a side.
If Nash really does not want to sign with Oilers I am sure that they will just let him re-enter the draft as I do believe they get a second rounder for him and can not see anyone offering anything close to that. He would be throwing away a lot of money as almost every player that has re-entered the draft has been picked lower.
ReplyDeleteWhat I said was "the Oilers weren't told that Nash was planning on going to college for 4 years" I never said "he planned on going 4 years and didnt' tell them" It was brought up because if in fact Riley Nash had told them he was planning on going to college for the full 4 years, then the Oilers would have no reason to complain about him possibly going back for a full season.
ReplyDeleteI have no idea if Nash did or did not intend to go to school for the full term, maybe he didn't know when he started school.
The Nash interview we did is no different then the Jeff Petry, Jordan Eberle and Chris VandeVelde interviews. All were done once the players were finished their hockey season, and all were asked about their future. We are paid to ask questions and form opinions. That is what we have done.
Thanks to "oilman" and Guy Flaming for correcting the statement made by Lowetide in his blog post. Lowetide, I love your work and read it often, but if you could please make that correction it would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Woodguy:
ReplyDeleteNash would also be eligible for a signing bonus worth 10% of his NHL salary, up to $87.5K per season if EDM gives him a max contract offer. If he signs this summer, he could get that $87.5K 3 times. If he waits and signs next summer/fall, he can only get it twice because his ELC will only be 2 years instead of 3.
So, the financial opportunity cost of playing another season in college includes not only his AHL salary for 2010/11(~$70K), but also up to $87.5K in signing bonuses for the extra season on his ELC. Not to mention any potential NHL money should he either stick in the NHL, or get re-called at some point.
Schitzo: Pursuant to the conversation earlier in the thread, the link I was reading yesterday was at CnB here. Possibly the idea is that Petry signed an ELC for next year and an AHL contract for the remainder of this year? Given that, would my original point about Nash trying to get his ELC signed for this year, like Casey Wellman, rather than the setup Petry got, make sense as the sticking point?
ReplyDeleteCapGeek for Casey Wellman
CapGeek for Jeff Petry
I'm just trying to figure out where the negotiations might be stuck other than Nash wanting to get out of the organization.
Sean Horcoff went to college for 4 years. Fernando Pisani went to college for 4 years. Tom Gilbert went to college for 4 years. Joe Niewendyk actually went to Cornell for 4 years too.
ReplyDelete4 years is a "red herring". Why is 4 years being brought up? Somebody is trying to spin for somebody?
Interesting that Lowetide talks about these intellectual renegade/hockey types, because it made me think of a certain former Oiler who some of you knew named Anderson - who 100% seriously considered going to play in the USSR - I'm not 100% certain but believe prior to the Oilers he'd spent time on the Canadian national hockey team, instead of turning pro.
ReplyDeleteThere's nothing wrong with being a bit of a lose cannon, now that i think about it.
@ coach: You talk like I know something different about Nash, or should know something, when the fact is i know next to nothing about him that i haven't read on this blog. I usually know almost nothing about these prospects, extrapolating whatever gems of info the venerable Lowetide dispenses - like that Detroit Red Wing link yesterday which astonished me.
anyone with an idea for the hall/seguin feed tonight?
ReplyDelete@Godot:
ReplyDeleteYou nailed it on the head man.
It has nothing to do with the 4 years since most players hit their prime at 28-32. Sure you lose a few years of development but this is more about KP about to lose his job than Nash being a stickler.
If he's a player who has a backup plan when he leaves hockey, then he's not as likely to want to sign somewhere else to improve his standing. The college degree might be the safety net that allows Nash to consider being a long-time Oiler.
What about that?
@jfry:
ReplyDeleteI thought that was tomorrow?
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ReplyDeletegodot10: How many of those players were 1st round picks? And how many 1st round picks who aren't busts spend all 4 years in college? At some point in time for most prospects, they probably benefit more by turning pro then staying in school. For a lot of high drafted prospects, it tends to be before they finish out their eligibility. And so it makes sense that an organization would want to know be informed if a player has some pre-set goal of playing all 4 years before turning pro.
ReplyDelete@r40...
ReplyDeletewow.
that's how excited i am!!
Dean Millard: I've edited the post. It is somewhat ironic that I posted an item with "framing the issue" as its centerpiece and then proceeded to do exactly that with regard to your show and blog.
ReplyDeleteIt was not my intent, and I am sorry for the misunderstanding. Your post (above) and Guy's as well were measured and appropriate.
Please accept my sincere apologies.
No worries Lowetide, you do a great job and we're thankful that you mentioned us. You've always been a supporter of our show (in more ways then one) and we appreciate any coverage. No offence taken whatsoever.
ReplyDeleteDeano
@ coach: You talk like I know something different about Nash, or should know something, when the fact is i know next to nothing about him that i haven't read on this blog.
ReplyDeleteThat's not what I intended at all. I meant to say that you're older, I think, and you haven't picked a side yet. Nothing further.
The whole Nash thing is simply an illustration of Canada's perverted attitude toward hockey. Nash is supposed to be submissive, happy to just be playing, and take anything he is given by the hockey powers. From junior on up - the financial power attempts to dominate young men for their own financial best interests. Of course they hate anyone with a shred of independence messing with their little game. Good on Nash for looking out for his own best interests - nobody else will do that for him. He is simply another "asset" to the Oilers and they will do with him as they please. If I were him I'd be looking for a way to get as far away from the clowns that run the Oilers as well - so his stance is not surprising. Just another illustration of how poorly the Oiler mgmt group is viewed outside EDM.
ReplyDeletePossibly the idea is that Petry signed an ELC for next year and an AHL contract for the remainder of this year?
ReplyDeleteMattM: Thanks for bringing that to my attention. It's interesting that both players got the standard 2-year ELC (as required for a 22-year old) but one started immediately. As you say, it must be some sort of AHL-only contract in Petry's case, as clearly playing actual NHL games will start the clock running.
Interesting that Lowetide talks about these intellectual renegade/hockey types, because it made me think of a certain former Oiler who some of you knew named Anderson - who 100% seriously considered going to play in the USSR - I'm not 100% certain but believe prior to the Oilers he'd spent time on the Canadian national hockey team, instead of turning pro.
ReplyDeleteHunter: You are correct that Glenn Anderson danced to his own beat. He spent the 1979-80 season with the Canadian National team, joined the Seattle Breakers at the end of that season and only came to Oilers' camp in the fall of 1980. He kept his options pretty wide open for quite awhile as I recall, wasn't sure the pro life was for him, did talk openly about Russia and international options, but when he did commit he was all in.
Four years isn't the problem; the Oiler attitude is. Three years ago Nash was considered a player who was good when he had the puck on his stick - now the Hockey News calls him a "defensive forward... who won't make the big mistake." His learned to play the whole game at Cornell. If he's thinking about staying in school, the Oilers should let him know that they are very interested in signing him when he graduates. He'll probably develop better at Cornell than at OKC anyway. Four years at Cornell didn't hurt Douglas Murray or Matt Moulson.
ReplyDelete@asiaoil
ReplyDeleteThe whole Nash thing is simply an illustration of Canada's perverted attitude toward hockey.
NFL, NBA, and NFL benefit from the same "perverted attitude" as several of those leagues' best player left school early to turn pro.
So, we aren't the only perverts.
One of those NFLs should be MLB.
ReplyDeleteIf the guy lacks a desire to jump at the first chance to be in the NHL, the Oilers should deal him as fast as possible. The last thing they need is one more player with a sense of entitlement and no passion for the game. See: POS
ReplyDelete