This is Denis Grebeshkov. According to rumor, he's agreed to a reasonable one-way deal with the Oilers for the fall. This means the Oilers vaunted "no-name" defense will boast a large group of players with under 100 games NHL experience again in 06-07. Matt Greene (105 regular season games) has graduated from the bizarre experiment, but Ladislav Smid, Jan Hejda, Tom Gilbert and Grebeshkov appear to be well placed to fill out the 4 roster spots behind Jason Smith, Steve Staios and Greene.Here, let's have a boo at how this might suss out:
Hejda-Smith
Smid-Staios
Grebeshkov-Greene
Gilbert.
Lovely. Just fricking lovely. Kevin Lowe would be wise to package Greene, the Islanders pick and someone up front in order to add some experience to that group, but that's exactly what we thought he'd do after dealing Chris Pronger last summer. The longest holding pattern in recent Oilers history continues, with the idea that "maybe they really are smart enough to have figured this out" a distant (and sickly) bell.
Grebeshkov is one of several players on the Oilers list who are playing in the World Championships.
Canada: Dwayne Roloson (.933SP, 2.00GA in 1 game)
Czech: Ladislav Smid (1gp, 0-0-0)
Russia: Denis Grebeshkov (1gp, 0-0-0)
USA: Matt Greene (1gp, 0-0-0)
USA: Tobias Petersen (1gp, 1-0-1)
A nice group of young defenders there, they'll probably be better when they play in the same tournament a year from now. Dick Tarnstrom had three assists in the one game he's played over there so far, a nice high event puck mover who slid right out of the NHL last season over either money or the quick development of 20-year olds. Either way, he should have been able to help some teams, not mentioning any names.
Anyway, Grebeshkov is a nice young defender who would be better served coming back to the NHL on a more experienced blueline.
Good Morning
ReplyDeleteThe Petr Sykora playing in Moscow now is the fella who scored 37 goals for Pardubice this season.
While checking out Grebeshkov at the WC, also pay attention to #13 for Russia.
Ask yo'self, would he look good on a line with Pouliot & "our" Sykora?
He can play all three forward positions.
That D line-up is the one that's been haunting me since the Oilers obtained Grebeshkov.
If they start the season with those seven, I'm outta here.
Mr Debakey: Thanks, I knew about the other Sykora but didn't think of it.
ReplyDeleteAgree on the D, it isn't that Smid, Grebeshkov and Gilbert aren't good players, but the chances of ALL of them emerging at the same time without costing another season? Zero. And I don't really buy into any lofty expectations of Smid having turned the corner after a full season. He's still very young, and made the typical rookie mistakes (read, overreact) right through the season (as most often happens).
Oilers need to add a LD with experience and ability as a puck mover to slot in with Staios. Having Smid-Gilbert as your third pair doesn't hurt as much as having Smid on your second pairing.
completely agree with you. Greene is the odd man out as far as I'm concerned. I just do see the upside in him as I do the other 3. I think you need a #1 guy in there and then roll Smith and Staios as 2 & 3, finishing it off with Hejda/Grebs/Smid/Gilbert as the last 4. Whoever is not playing good sits out of this group.
ReplyDeleteThere is not a chance in hell that they start the season with those seven as the Oilers D-corps.
ReplyDelete????-Smith
Hejda-Staios
That's the MINIMUM expectation of what the top four will be. One of Greene/Gilbert/Grebeshkov is getting packaged to trade for a d-man.
The ideal scenario is signing Hejda, pulling the wool over the eyes of Holmgren and acquiring Pitkanen, then scooping Scott Hannan in the UFA market:
Hannan-Smith
Pitkanen-Staios
Hejda-Gilbert/Smid
However....I'm not betting on that happening. It would be too much of a departure from last year's philosophy.
One top-four d-man will be acquired though. Book it.
Sweatyo: I don't agree. I think Lowe got bullied out of the trade and UFA market last summer and could easily do the same again. He went to the auction, didn't like the prices and decided to go with inexperience squared.
ReplyDeleteI am completely confident he's capable of talking himself into it again, AND his recent comments about waiting until July 1st is very disconcerting.
He needs to make a trade rfn, and until he does imo next season is a massive question mark.
He talked a bigger game last summer and we watched in shock and awe as the Oilers gave NHL experience to players who weren't ready for the roles given.
He's talking with less confidence this year, not more. Lowe's inactivity in the last 12 months is either indifference, getting bullied over price, or the EIG being heavy handed.
NONE of those excuses is good enough, and the only other explanation is that Kevin Lowe is stupid.
I don't believe that to be true.
Broken record (the minimalist solution):
ReplyDeleteDaryl Sydor, Daryl Sydor, Daryl Sydor.
Gives a top eight:
Hejda, Smith
Smid, Staios
Sydor, Grebeshkov
Greene, Gilbert
I'm not opposed to doing more.
Poor Matt Greene is getting seriously gassed, even though I can't think of a lot of physical-first defensemen who had really learned the arts of positioning and good stickwork by their 100th NHL game. His formidable age has nothing to do with that - where the hell was Jason Smith after 100 NHL games? About here, with Leafs fans shrieking for his departure because they "didn't see the upside".
ReplyDeletePersonally, I'm unwilling to write Greene off. Send Gilbert to Springfield, make Greene the seventh defenseman, get our top-four guy, and accept that no matter what we do this isn't going to be a Stanley Cup season and we should try and get everybody a few playoff games in 2008. Wade Redden and Joni Pitkanen were my former dream guys, but I think we all know that Pitkanen isn't going anywhere and Redden is having a good enough playoff that any willingness Muckler once had to trade him is probably going fast.
lord bob: I have zero trouble with Greene as a 7th D, or even a 6D with someone like Smid this season.
ReplyDeleteThe quarrel is with the top 4D, and I believe Greene's trade value is higher than any of the other kids not named Smid (who is here for as long as Lowe is, for obvious reasons).
Settle the hell down, Lowe has tons of time to figure shit out, how about let free agency open or hell, even the draft before you start slinging the dirt at the man
ReplyDeleteSettle the hell down, Lowe has tons of time to figure shit out, how about let free agency open or hell, even the draft before you start slinging the dirt at the man
ReplyDeleteYeah LT, it's not like he presided over an epicly disastrous 2006-07 team that was brutal at most facets of the game and is bringing back the same coaching staff or anything.
The quarrel is with the top 4D, and I believe Greene's trade value is higher than any of the other kids not named Smid (who is here for as long as Lowe is, for obvious reasons).
ReplyDeleteNow, that's true.
But just how high is Greene's value? We've just established that he's a bottom-pairing defenseman this year if we want to stay comfortable, and that while he has potential, that's all he has (and a lot of people aren't convinced of that). I still am, but we'd probably be selling low today getting rid of any of the kid defensemen.
In a trade, what's the difference between, say, 'NYI first and Syvret' or 'NYI first and Roy' and 'NYI first and Greene' in terms of a return? We're not talking about Joni Pitkanen vs. Drake Berehowsky, anyway. While it's obvious that Greene would fetch more, Syvret or Roy might well fetch 'good enough' with a relatively insignificant difference between the options.
Come on LT, give Lowe some slack. It's not like Lowe has been turning elite veteran players into middling prospects and flat out poor players.
ReplyDeleteOh wait... Yes, that's exactly what he's been doing.
I'm alright with the 5-7 dmen being young players. 6/7 can be a platoon and it's way easier to do what Barry Trotz used to do with his 5/6 pairing and just pair your two young guys together so that you can hide them. The alternative has already been tried out in 05/06. I have no interest in watching Jason Smith perform another Sisyphean task.
The problem is that they've got four guys there now and more players on the way in a year or two. They must make some decisions and the sooner they make them the better. They'd much rather have a Woywitka/Lynch situation than a Semenov one.
In a trade, what's the difference between, say, 'NYI first and Syvret' or 'NYI first and Roy' and 'NYI first and Greene' in terms of a return?
ReplyDeleteWell, there's a big difference between a 1st plus an NHL roster player getting paid $1MM and a 1st plus an AHL player. I don't think too highly of Greene, but there's no way Syvret and Roy are in the same ballpark.
Well, there's a big difference between a 1st plus an NHL roster player getting paid $1MM and a 1st plus an AHL player. I don't think too highly of Greene, but there's no way Syvret and Roy are in the same ballpark.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of being ready right now, the only reason Greene is an NHLer and Roy isn't is that Greene was there first and would have to clear waivers. I suspect Roy could have a 2007/08 season nearly as good or as good as Greene's 2006/07. Syvret is a different sort of player entirely so a comparison with him is more difficult.
If Greene develops he should have a fine NHL career as a DD. Big man, as he moves along he'll learn how to cheat without taking penalties and refs give defensemen a little more leeway in that regard once they're established in the NHL.
ReplyDeletePlus the way they're calling it now may not be the way they always call the game.
I think Greene could be a solid NHL second pairing defenseman down the line.
Then again I said the same thing about Alexei Semenov. :-)
I'm less inclined to trade Greene since Smid, Gilbert and Grebs all play a similar puck-moving finesse game (Grebs hits a bit more but you get the idea). Greene is the heir apparent to Smith - and is by far the toughest of our yougn dmen. I freely admit the kid has not looked great at times - IMHO this is largely because he has never NEVER been able to play with a stable vet. It's always been another kid or a hand grenade like MAB.
ReplyDeleteGilbert is the guy I move for a vet dman with some offense in his game - and I run with a Smid, Greene and Grebs 5-7. Gilbert has some nice upside but he's a UFA fairly soon and his offensive numbers will make him more expensive faster than Greene - so he could be a guy who gets overpaid compared to his real contribution to winning.
Smid's a guy I trade in heartbeat (even though I like his future) if you could cash him in for a more experienced version of same.
ReplyDeleteHe's going to need to go through the "Eric Brewer growing pains" we all saw when he came over from the Islanders, and that's even with last season imo.
Send him away, bring in Pitkanen. Oilers need a Finn anyway.
Send him away, bring in Pitkanen. Oilers need a Finn anyway.
ReplyDeleteGeez, if we can get Pitkanen for him, of course. I like to think K-Lowe is a big enough man to make that trade; he did trade Hecht for an impending-free-agent Latvian (as well as Reasoner last season) a few years ago after our last firesale.
Asiaoil said...
ReplyDeleteI freely admit the kid has not looked great at times - IMHO this is largely because he has never NEVER been able to play with a stable vet. It's always been another kid or a hand grenade like MAB.
I have a huge problem with this argument. First off, Greene's results are horrible EXCEPT when he played with MAB. There is no way you can blame Bergeron for Greene's struggles.
As for the rest, I can't comment on the icetimes and I still haven't updated my stats past the 76th game mark...
However, I've got Greene down for 85 ES events up to that point.
43 were with MAB.
24 were with Smith/Staios/Hejda/Tjarnqvist.
8 were with Smid.
Smid was the best of the kids by far and if Greene was saddled with the other ones it either didn't show up in the game sheets (and thus wasn't a problem) or was only for the last six games.
If anything the MAB thing has as much to do with the fact that Greene was totally inept against decent competition and had to play with MAB against the easiest matchups to get any results at all.
Maybe Greene learned a lot. Maybe he can come back from this season. Maybe not. I don't have much problem with trading him, but I don't have much problem with keeping him in the 3rd pairing either.
Lord Bob said...
ReplyDelete...he did trade Hecht for an impending-free-agent Latvian (as well as Reasoner last season) a few years ago after our last firesale.
He was traded for two 2nd rounders that became JDD and Stoll.
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ReplyDeleteHe was traded for two 2nd rounders that became JDD and Stoll.
ReplyDeleteGood gravy. My bad. I confused Chad Kilger with Jochen Hecht, which has to be one of the more insane memory lapses I ever had. Still, I think the point remains. Thanks for catching it, though.
Riv - sure I admit Greene did not have a stellar year - but if we lose Smith next year then this defense has some serious issues with toughness. I think Greene can become a solid shutdown dman in time. Problem is as everyone know - only so much time for all these kids unless we throw away another year. I keep Greene because he fills a slot the others don't - simple as that. If we need a high profile kid to deal for a top pair guy - then Smid goes. If we need a lesser young to throw into the package - then Gilbert goes. Depends on who were are trading for - but I'm not attached to any particular young guy on the back line - although I did see some nice things from a very young Smid last season.
ReplyDeleteYou guys are black-balling Greene way too much. He's still just a kid. The problem here is he was rushed through the system way too quickly. The guy I see as comparable to Greene is Kevin Bieksa, who's established as one of Vancouver's best stories of the year.
ReplyDeleteBoth played great in college, pretty comparable there, but the difference was Vancouver did the smart thing and kept Bieksa in the minors for a full year to acclimatize to a faster, harder game. Greene got what, 24 games of AHL experience before being thrown into the NHL's deep end? Rushed way too fast, especially for an organization that had the depth they had on defense last year. Happened again this year, albeit he was forced into a top-4 role because the Oilers had no depth to speak of.
This being said, i don't see Greene ever living up to the comparison of Kevin Bieksa, he's been irreversibly damaged by the NHL fast-track. Yet another blunder by the Oilers lack of an AHL affiliation where they can keep their top prospects and monitor their development properly.
Personally, I'm unwilling to write Greene off
ReplyDeleteI don't think anyone's writing him off. Its just that, for a variety of reasons, he seems to be the odd man out. They've all an upside; But its too much of a good thing, 4 Dmen with upside.
If Greene goes though, I wonder about the physical side. The Oilers weren't a physical team this season, subtract Greene [and Winchester] & it gets worse.
I think that's why, in the main, I've been advocating a trade for someone like Boynton rather than a Zidlicky
But just how high is Greene's value?
A physical kid, decent skills, right hand shot, 100 NHL games under his belt, good upside - he's probably worth something. Atlanta could us him, the Rangers too, Philly always loves this kind of guy
Lupul and the ANA pick for Boynton just makes way too much sense. Morris is untradable and they have a lot of dmen on the roster with Jovo, Morris, Ballard, Mickalek. He makes about the same salary as Lupul over the the next two year (Boynton has a bigger cap hit) but it's still a very affordable $2.9 million.
ReplyDeleteBoynton in helps and Lupul out helps
I would suggest Gresbeshkov is closer to NHL ready than we expect given the REL is not _far_ from pro level and he's had several seasons of successful experience at that level.
ReplyDeleteHowever, it's clear we need a major veteran to come in. To me the ideal would be a guy to play with Smith.
See, this is how I'd do it.
Vet/Smith for major minutes... 25 or so
Smid/Staios
Hejda with Gresh/Greene/Gilbert picking up bottom pairing minutes
PK of Vet/Smith and Hejda/Staios
PK pairings play in tight, late third period situations
Add a veteran at the deadline to sure them up.
Incidently LT, I found a great comp for Schremp's first AHL season.
ReplyDeleteLadislav Nagy
First year in the AHL for him was 69 games 51 points. He was just coming off a dominant offensive year in the Q. He's become a fairly one dimensional skill player at the NHL level who won't be your franchise but will contribute.
I think Nagy is Schremp's top end.
Nagy is a nice comp, except for the speed difference. But he's got soft hands and can make things happen on the PP, which is what Schremp should be able to do too at some point down the line.
ReplyDeleteWell they're not identical players by any means.
ReplyDeleteHowever, the results in their first AHL year are very similar. It's encouraging given how few other examples there are ;)
Shawn,
ReplyDeleteGood suggestion, but I'd rather try Hejda with Staios. IIRC, Hejda played a little with Greene on the third pair (with MAB HSed) with less than desirable results. Mind you, it may have been early in Hejda's introduction -- but I think Hejda still needs a little bit of a safety valve. Being paired with Staios would have a little bit of a dynamic effect since either one have some decent o-zone decision making.
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ReplyDeleteI forgot to comment on Tarnstrom. My guess is that he was injured pretty much the whole time he was an Oiler. Otherwise there's no excuse for playing Greene as much as they did last year.
ReplyDeleteI don't buy the he nature vs. nuture debate as it applies to Greene one bit.
If this experience damaged Greene's development permanently, then he's soft in the head and was never going to get there anyway.
Then again I said the same thing about Alexei Semenov. :-)
ReplyDeleteLT - I do not know if you checked on our boy (yeah I was a homer for him too) Alexei lately but he came back and played the last 23 games of the season for the Panthers. He registered 5 points during that stretch and was a +9, just taking a quick peek it looks like he averaged about 14 minutes a game.
Personally I think Lowe will get us 1 top 4 vet. It may not be as spectacular as a Redden but someone solid.
Of course Lowe deserves the most blame as he pulls the final trigger on player acquisition.
However, if you listened to MacT at the end of the year, talking about how he will be more involved in player procurement, you have to wonder if it is all Lowe. Mac was talking about Gilbert having a good shot at making the team next season. Then when asked what the organizations most pressing need is he said a high end offensive forward to play with Hemsky.
When I heard the question I thought I already knew the answer that MacT was going to say "We need a veteran D man or two" but the above statement was what came out of his mouth (not saying I disagree just not what I expected).
I guess I disagree with most of the posters when I think that Greene is ready for the second pairing next season.
ReplyDeleteAnd Smid will be better. but how much better?
second pairing!?! On what planet?
ReplyDeleteI think he has a future, but yikes.
I never posted the link, though I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to find, but in a piece about the Flyers draft plans and their offseason plans in general, Holmgren admitted that he's been talking to Lowe. In the same piece, the writer, I believe it was Tim Panaccico, sp, just throws it out there that it's just as well the Flyers deal Pitkanen and move on. He didn't connect the two developments but I felt he may as well have.
ReplyDeleteYou read this stuff about Grebs and you see what Gilbert did in a 12 game audition, and I'm still trying to make up my mind about how much that might mean, and then you realize what the Oilers think of Smid and you figure that we're missing the playoffs in '08 for sure.
I don't mind the idea of a Gilbert/Grebs platoon in the 6 hole so that would leave Smid as 5 and 21-24 plus two others yet to be named to make up the top four. But where will these guys come from? Hejda could be back but we'd still need a big guy to pick up the slack. I'm betting that the D features Smid in the top four "because he didn't do a bad job there last year":D and that leaves gilbert/grebs as the bottom pairing and Hejda rounding out the top four.
It used to be that the worst thing about the Oilers missing the playoffs was the first round when everyone else was getting to have fun. I must admit that I felt a few pangs once the first round started but then I got into all the series and it shocked me how much I didn't miss the Oilers being a part of it. Of course what wasn't fun last year was the last 40 games or so, not to mention the final 20, and I have a feeling we're in for more of that shit come '08.
Or at least we are if if the D is gonna round out like we think it will.
What's really depressing is watching Pronger be Pronger... it's just so good. I'm so entertained by his game. To me, that's my ultimate hockey player. And we had him. For one lousy year.
ReplyDeleteIt's more depressing for me to watch them and then think about what we got for him in return. I was bummed about him asking about but about a week later I was ready to cheer on a package of say Jay-B and Horton. But then we wound up with overrated and costly drek PLUS the immensely overrated Smid.
ReplyDeleteMaster Lok said...
ReplyDeleteI guess I disagree with most of the posters when I think that Greene is ready for the second pairing next season.
Pfft. I guess so.
Just guessing from the partners, but I'd say Greene was +7/-27 at 5V5 in a 2nd pairing type role.
Just incredibly bad.
Fucking terrible.
Need I continue? ;)
Greene might get better and maybe there were some post-deadline signs, but there's a lot of red numbers there. Personally, I think he gets too much credit from Oiler fans for the post deadline stuff.
I'm sure he looked like he was improving because the NHL players he played with before were lying on slabs and he looked passable compared to a bunch of AHL stiffs.
What was Vic's thing about monkeys climbing trees? How does that go again?
haha, thanks RQ. I trust your numbers - but could you check on his numbers post deadline? Indeed, my faith in Greene's ability to be on the Oilers second pairing is based on:
ReplyDelete1) his play post deadline. While his partners may not have been that great - I felt his play was improving - and considering that his partners were more inexperienced, and later in the season, some of the opponent teams were getting more focussed on a fighting for a playoff spot - I thought his second half play was a dramatic improvement.
2) and Lowe's history of forcefeeding young blueliners or getting rid of them. Either they Sink (Semenov) or Swim (Brewer) when given the extra minutes and responsibilities. If Lowe is convinced that Greene is no better than a 5/6 dman - then Greene will be traded. If Lowe thinks Greene is better - than he will be retained and forcefed a higher level.
Honestly dennis... Jay-Bo and Horton wouldn't fix my depression watching Pronger. He's a generational player. Just outstanding.
ReplyDeleteMaster Lok said...
ReplyDeletehaha, thanks RQ. I trust your numbers - but could you check on his numbers post deadline? Indeed, my faith in Greene's ability to be on the Oilers second pairing is based on:
Well he was -15 before the deadline and -6 in 9 games after the deadline and I'm still missing the last six games because I'm a little preoccupied these days. He probably ends up -8 or -9 in the last 15 games of the year if I had to guess.
I don't think that says a whole lot - basically I think the post-deadline data should be totally ignored, but in any case, it's not helping Greene out.
In case you're wondering, his first 20 games was his best stretch. +14/-12 while playing with MAB in the third pairing a tonne. That does NOT coincide with the team's best performance either - their best 5V5 stretch as a team was from the halfway point to the deadline.
I am optimistic about our group of young defenders going forward so long as they are developed properly... and there are big reasons to suspect that they may not be developed properly!!!
ReplyDeleteThe optimist in me says that these guys will be better developed by seeing more time in Springfield (That is Gilbert, Chorney, etc..). I'd add another year in the 'A' to each of these guys than what the Oilers have done in the past.
The pessimist in me says that Lowe believes that guys develop better in the NHL than they do in the AHL. I hope he doesn't.
I would have no problem if during the final year of the Staios deal our backend looked simliar to;
Smid - Hejda
Staios - Grebeshkov
Greene/Roy - Gilbert
Rookie(Chorney, etc...)
A lot of puck movers there which I really think is a key. But that of course is 2010/2011 and any number of these boys may - and some say are likely not to - work out.
In '07/'08 I'd be pleased with a defense of;
Pitkannen - Smith
Hejda - Staios
Smid/Grebeshkov - Greene/Roy
The top two pairs can play with anybody reasonably well while the kids can be sheltered in the bottom pair.
Can Pitkannen really be had? A more reasonable guy to get, although not as desirable, would have to be Foote. He's older, more expensive and doesn't move the puck like Pitkannen but is in the final year before UFA and is making $4.6MM. This has to make the price tag a little lower and I'd say a good deal lower that Pitkannen. Plus, the new GM in Columbus may be more likely to put his own stamp on the team.
T
Ah I just found some archived icetimes that I had:
ReplyDeleteGreene's GD/hr at 5V5:
1st 20 games: 0.5
At the halfway: -0.8
At the deadline: -1.0
After 76 games: -1.2
His 2nd and 3rd quarters were brutal and then the crap hits the fan and he keeps dropping with the rest of the team.
I am seeing his GA/hr get a little better as the year progresses. (2.9 GA/hr in first 20 games, 3.6 GA/hr in 2nd quarter, 1.9 GA/hr in third quarter, 2.9 GA/hr after the deadline)
However, Greene's GF generated goes down faster than the team's, so his overall GD continues to plummet even though his GA are dropping.
Greene GF/hr vs. Team GF/hr
1st quarter - 3.4 vs. 2.6
2nd quarter - 2.3 vs. 2.5
3rd quarter - 1.3 vs. 1.9
4th quarter - 0.4 vs. 0.8
I'd say that pretty much trends with how much he played with MAB.
RIv - yeah I don't think any sane person would want Greene on the 2nd pair next year (or Gilbert or Smid or Grebeshkov). Longterm I think the kid has nice potential as a shutdown guy - but I trust the Oilers mgmt when it comes to dmen. If the mgmt team decides to trade him then I'm fine with that - just like I was fine with the Semenov deal amidst all the "he has so much potential" noise.
ReplyDeleteSmith and Staios are a given, resigning Hejda for the 2nd pair makes sense, and getting a top pair guy is essential. That leaves 4 young guys fighting for the 5-7 slots - and depending upon the trade - I'm OK dealing any of them to bring in an asset that helps.
Greene played the soft minutes for most of the season. Here are the even strength scoring numbers for the other soft minute players.
ReplyDeleteMAB-1st quarter-4 ES points, 2nd quarter-3, 3rd quarter-2
Sykora-12,9,6
Reasoner-7,7,5
Thoresen-8,0,4
Winchester-7,1,1
Lupul-7,5,3
It's taken from Yahoo so there may be an empty net goal or two in there somewhere. Also the quarters are broken up into individual 20 games played so they won't match up exactly with the real 20 game sections of the season, but it gives a good idea.
I'm not sure you can blame a defensive defenseman for having a plummeting goals for/goals against ratio when the players playing in front of him generally dropped across the board as the season progressed.
I'm not saying Greene didn't hit any rough spots this season, but I certainly don't think he was such a boat anchor that he was just dragging everyone down with him.
Secondary soft minute scoring looks to have dried right up and Matt Greene's plus/minus paid the price.
I don't really think MAB was the offensive ES catalyst that kept Greene afloat either. Marc had 9 ES points, Staios had 15 in the same number of games and Tjanqvist and Hejda were tied with MAB at 9 in about 15 fewer games.
Hell, Matt Greene had 8 ES points in his first 55 games.
I don't really think MAB was the offensive ES catalyst that kept Greene afloat either. Marc had 9 ES points, Staios had 15 in the same number of games and Tjanqvist and Hejda were tied with MAB at 9 in about 15 fewer games.
ReplyDeleteHell, Matt Greene had 8 ES points in his first 55 games.
Matt Greene ended up being on the ice for 36 GF at 5V5 - 22 of those came with MAB on the ice also and they only played together consistently for less than half the year. I think that pretty much sums it up.
Also, I did compare Greene's GF/hr rates with those of the team in the post above - the team was less likely to score when Greene was on the ice all year long except for the first 20 games when he played almost exclusively with MAB at 5V5.
Staios is pretty consistent at putting up good rates at ES. He's done that for four consecutive seasons now.
Greene's GF/hr rate was probably affected more by the forwards in front of him then by MAB. MAB's GF/hr rate probably dropped as the season progressed as well.
ReplyDeleteFor instance I'd be willing to bet that Jason Smith's GF/hr rate was probably at its worst in the first and fourth quarters. In the first quarter guys like Horcoff and Pisani weren't doing anything offensively, and the fourth quarter was obvious.
At times in the season it seemed like the Smyth line was the only one producing any offence and since Greene rarely played behind that line his GF/hr rate would be affected by that.