The problem is, you develop a past. Since the fall of 2000 and Craig MacTavish debuting as the head coach of the Oilers, we've seen a steady stream of young men pass through town. Some have emerged as quality talent, others have failed, and still others have carved out careers as useful players in Edmonton and elsewhere.
Daniel Cleary and Jason Chimera (both in photo) were once Oilers. They both played that first MacTavish season, Chimera in one game and Cleary establishing himself as an NHL player after a meandering path to the show (helped not at all by the poor Chicago developmental system that had him playing lost in the NHL as a teenager). Cleary began the season on the Bulldog line and then when linemates Michel Riesen and Brian Swanson were sent away he moved up the depth chart.
No matter how long he coaches here, MacT's list of players he has brought to the NHL is going to be an impressive one. Led by exceptional talent like Ales Hemsky, some fine players have earned the opportunity to play in the best league on the planet.
The problem is that after a time the players who get thrown overboard get another NHL chance, and some find their way. Sometimes, the players sent away end up being more productive than those who stay.
Since 2000 fall, Craig MacTavish has given first or second chances to Mike Comrie, Shawn Horcoff, Dominic Pittis, Daniel Cleary, Brian Swanson, Michel Riesen, Dan Lacouture, Brad Norton (he made that first club but was suspended), Scott Ferguson, Jason Chimera, Jussi Markkanen, Ales Hemsky, Fernando Pisani, Alexei Semenov, Ales Pisa, Marc Andre Bergeron, Jarret Stoll, Alex Henry, Kari Haakana, Mike Bishai, Mikko Luoma, Peter Sarno, Tony Salmelainen, Ty Conklin, Raffi Torres, Marc Pouliot, Brad Winchester, Toby Petersen, JF Jacques, Danny Syvret, Kyle Brodziak, Mike Morrison, Mathieu Roy, Patrick Thoresen, Ladislav Smid, Matt Greene, Jan Hejda, Tom Gilbert, Zach Stortini and Bryan Young. I didn't include guys like Mikhnov and a few others (Chris Hajt) because they were more "cups-of-coffee".
That's a pretty impressive list. If you had to pick the best from each position, I'd go with Horcoff at center, Torres at LW and Hemsky at RW. Defense would be tougher, but Marc Andre Bergeron and Ladislav Smid are good picks. For goalie I'd go with Markkanen. The leftovers (Comrie, Stoll, Pisani, Cleary, Hejda, Greene, Conklin) aren't bad either, and in fact you could probably put Hejda on the top team and move Smid back but we can assume that Smid will have a better future.
The "ones that got away" list is getting longer each season, which is to be expected. Often when a management team is shipped out one of the main reasons is that they've let big talent get away, but in the case of MacTavish I don't really see it. Daniel Cleary needed to grow up a little (and we're going to leave it at that, thankyou), Comrie's situation was handled badly on all fronts, and the others (like Semenov and Winchester) haven't had enough of their stories written to make a value judgement.
I'll admit to being a MacT backer, but I think he's done a heckuva job by any measure in terms of keeping the best talent made available to him. If there's a problem with the Edmonton Oilers and the talent they procure, it would appear to be at the scouting level. MacTavish hasn't been exposed as of yet, there is no Miro Satan in his past. For Oiler fans that's good news, especially considering just how many young Oilers are knocking at the NHL door.
You're clearly seeing things differently from me -- when I saw your list, my immediate thought was "I wouldn't want 90% of those guys on my team". ;)
ReplyDeletedave: That's a terrific list for 6 years. Quality, depth and an impact offensive player. You could complain about the D but there's quality there.
ReplyDeleteAnd the main point of my post was that MacT uncovered the talent available and the Oilers sent away players who haven't made them regret it.
You may not be old enough to remember the days of sending Satan away because he couldnt' play on the checking line, but I remember it.
The Satan trade was pure crap. Plain and simple.
ReplyDeleteBarrie Moore and Craig Millar. Wow....just wow.
Yeah, MacT IMO has a great eye for talent. I'd love to hear him talk off the record about how he really feels about the returns on some of the recent deals.
ReplyDeleteListening to Lowe's Oilers Live today, and it seems like he's really leaning on the coaching staff with decisions this off-season and I feel a lot better about what might be coming with MacT playing a bigger role in personnel decisions.
As for departed players, even if Cleary rips off a couple great seasons, I don't think we can hold that one against the org. because of the extenuating circumstances.
And Comrie can be a useful player in the right role, but we didn't exactly give him away, either.
Bergeron is one of the few guys there that I think we could end up seriously regretting. But if Nolan keeps riding him and Poti together as hard as he did this year, MAB's in for some pretty tough stretches yet in his career.
I remember how excited I was when both Rucinsky and Satan came over.
ReplyDeleteThey both seemed incredibly talented to my eyes but it seemed like before we could sneeze they were both outta here. But more importantly Satan was a blow for me at the time. You could see how raw he was but it was obvious he had some big league talent.
Admittedly I was young and got attached to these guys awful quickly but that trade sucked. I was beyond PO'd when I heard about it.
The Comrie thing was a mess right from the beginning. He used his leverage from the Van Ryn loophole and the home town boy angle to get himself a big deal. I'm not sure if MacT and Lowe were put off then or later on when Comrie actually thought he was worth that kind of dough.
ReplyDeleteI'll say one thing though - before the end, Comrie definitely had a huge head from reading his press clippings and MacT was definitely trying to prove that Comrie wasn't a good player. How it got to that point, I don't really know but I'd like to think the relationship between Comrie and management was confrontational from the beginning.
I'm not looking this up or anything but I believe the Satan deal was made on deadline day in '97 right? I was just getting back into the team and hadn't read a THN in ages and all I knew was that Satan looked like, at the very worst, a very skilled guy, but when I heard the trade I remember thinking that maybe with guys like Arnott, Weight and Smyth already in the org, maybe Slats figured we could trade some offensive for a dman and maybe this Millar was gonna be something. You have to remember that this was the days before I was all over the net reading info on guys. Anyway, it's still a very painful trade.
ReplyDeleteRegarding Cleary, I'm not one to make a fuss out of a local boy doing good. I don't subscribe to that provincial way of thinking, guys are either Oilers or they're not. I read all the Good Albertan Boy garbage and it turns my guts, that's never been my thing. And I say that even with Ryan Clowe right now resembling a very poor man's Thornton with the way he can can control the puck down low.
I think Cleary was ultimately moved from Edm because he was making some serious money and this was a time when no one could make money as an Oiler without being able to score. MacT gave him all kinds of chances though, and considering my next-door neighbour, who's also from the same place as Dan, told me that the Oilers had to call his father up there on a couple of occasions, I'm sure they did what they could before letting him go. But I will say this, and I said this at the time, before he left he was playing on the old STD checking line with Horc and Marchant and they were just stifling. I don't know who the Oilers were using as their scoring lines at the time;) but that's an impressive troika now in '07, ie even though Marchant's currently out with an injury.
That was the start of Cleary being useful and then he lost his way again in Phx but now he's a guy who uses his size, loves to grind it out and can use his old skills when he gets a chance to score. It's been an interesting journey from where I sit, I remember going to the bar to watch the Oilers one game when he was playing for the Hawks in Col on one of the other screens. There were a lot of guys there from his community. A couple of years later he'd be in town in person with the Bulldogs and later on he was at the bar after another dominating performance in the AHL, this time more friends were with him but not as many as had cheered him when he was in the NHL, mind you;)
Something else to add considering we're talking about guys cut loose. I think Devereaux's a guy that's gonna be useful. TO briought him up part-way through this season and I started watching him and he was an absolute demon in the offensive end. I believe he was a decent outscorer while playing tough min too, at least according to Desjardins. He was a guy I was pimping for the Oilers to sign this coming summer but TO nabbed him for another two years, at 650 and 700 K I believe
ReplyDeleteGuys like Devereaux happen to every org; it's just a doctor's disagreement. Sometimes they're Gary Roberts (or even Boyd Devereaux), and sometimes they're Brett Lindros.
ReplyDeleteRemains to be seen yet which category Jarret Stoll will find himself.
Dennis: Can you send me an email?
ReplyDeleteI wonder how great an impact that MacT had on making Cleary and Devereaux into useful NHL players. I think lots.
ReplyDeleteDan Cleary commented earlier this year that he owes MacT alot for his development.
ReplyDeleteI hope MacT is a GM of this organization one day. He's a type of guy that will build a very solid 5 on 5 team.
Riv...Comrie had the Oil over the barrel right from day one and I don't think Lowe or MacT ever got over it. The Oilers were starving for goals back then and he was tearing up the WHL and wasn't there a deadline to have him signed before the new year? Seems to me I remember being back home during the holiday season and calling my friend in another community, those guys had net access;) and asking him what the Journal and Sun were saying. And of course we remember Bill Hunter being on Comrie's side as well.
ReplyDeleteThen I remember him getting hurt in SJ in the '03 season and it looked like he wouldn't get enough games in to hit his bonus triggers. Then he scored into an empty net in Chicago in the season's last days and I thought the writing was pretty much on the wall. His last days as an Oilers were spent in the playoffs on the 4th line with Laraque.
Refresh my memory here, what happened with Devo and the Oilers? It seems like the Oilers staff thought his career was over, didn't they?
Dennis... Yeah they had to sign Comrie by the new year or he was to become a UFA.
ReplyDeleteDevereaux got fucking crushed by Dallas Drake (I think it was right around the offensive blueline) and had a seizure on the ice IIRC. The Oilers doctors thought he was finished. I think they had one outside expert say he was done too. Boyd had another doctor vouch for him and the rest is history as they say. Can't blame the Oilers for that one but it does make you wonder about Boyd's future after hockey though. It makes you wonder about a lot of their futures after hockey.
RE: Comrie
ReplyDeleteHe had to sign a deal by January 1st. It was a deal signed just a day before. Basically, Comrie milked the EIG for every last penny before signing (he had an opportunity to sign in the summer).
Comrie broke his thumb in his final year of the contract against SJ, came back way early, and was put out on the ice in the last minute, in a game against Calgary scoring an EN. He triggered 4 out of his 6 bonuses, thus received the 2M+ bonus.
Friend of mine have met him at SUB (U of A). Said he's a jerk, and wasn't friendly at all (similar to my experience with Mike Morrison).
I saw him on the NHLPA show. I remember his words (he was an Oiler back then), ''Edmonton is a good place to start my career''
I never got the vibe he wanted to stay here long term.
Overall, it was a mess, and both parties could have played it better. You had Bill Comrie going in the papers saying he hasn't attended a game since the saga, you got Comrie finger pointing on HNIC, you got Lowe agreeing to a trade and at the last minute asking Comrie for 2M back, and you have Comrie claiming Edmonton is a fishbowl (he basically said it again after traded to Ottawa).
Nothing good came out of it. The trade wasn't bad, but it will be up to Schremp to prove that he can do something with second line ice time. Never been a big fan of his, but he's been improving on his ES play. I'd give him another year in the AHL - if he's not ready to graduate by then, we've got a bust.
Yeah I remember that hit, Riv. It was on HNIC and Lacouture immeadiately went to Boyd's defense. I never liked Drake after that and it makes me vomit when I hear Tkahuck call him "Dally." I can't explain it, it just happens;)
ReplyDeleteI thought I remembered the Devo thing going down like that, ie the medical opinions, but I thought someone here would confirm it. BTW, awhile back The Star had playlists for him and Belak, Morris Petersen and some other TO sports cats. Devo's list was pretty impressive. We know he was the scholastic player of the year in the OHL, ie I remember Slats bringing that up, and it makes sense considering the kind of music he listens to. I'm sure I'm not the first guy to make the connection but it's more often then not the more intelligent guys that really dig indie music.
Anyway, the first time I saw Devo was down here with the Dogs and he had amazing speed and a really nice stride. I questioned back then whether he could score goals and it doesn't appear I was wrong about that. He's a likeable guy though and I remember him and Dowd and BG forming a very effective 4th line
That Devereaux, Dowd, BG line was the last Edmonton 4th line that I really was entertained by -- and was really quite effective (particularly in some series versus the Stars). What a strange combination -- the old man Dowd, a kid, and the gentle giant. It sounds like a friggin kid's show.
ReplyDeleteSome interesting news today, Cogliano will turn pro this year, while Chorney will not. Some good, some bad I suppose. I think Chorney is ready to be tested by the pro ranks but I guess we'll have to wait at least one more year for him,
ReplyDeleteDennis : I listen to the CBC Radio 3 podcast (Canadian indie music), and the host is a big hockey guy so he mentions gettign reccomendations from Devereaux a fair bit and even interviewed him on the show once. He seems to take his music pretty seriously.
ReplyDeleteSeeing as how this thread was primarily started out Nfers, it galled me today to see that senile old prick Matheson throwing around the word "newfie." To some of us, me included, that term makes me wince.
ReplyDeleteI met Comrie at the HMV at West Ed. Pretty much a short dickhead.
ReplyDelete