My buddy suggests the Oilers badly need a power forward, or at least a forward with size to add a physical element to the skill lines.
What say you? A solid NHL defender or a physical policemen to ride shotgun for RNH, Hall and or Eberle?
Wednesday, December 21, 2011
Room Service
My buddy suggests the Oilers badly need a power forward, or at least a forward with size to add a physical element to the skill lines.
What say you? A solid NHL defender or a physical policemen to ride shotgun for RNH, Hall and or Eberle?
I would get a D. We already have more forwards with potential and "physical elements" who could play on a skill-line in a year or two. Say the two fins - Hartikainen & Tyrvainen (seriously, I know us Swedes have lots of "sson-surnames but them Fins are even worse with theirs) + Hamilton and Pitlick. Fine, we could use a physical element on the skilled lines now now now.. but I prefer getting a return for Hemsky we have even better use for come next year.
ReplyDeleteHmm.. if you don't mind me asking Lowetide. Bit off-topic. Delete it if you so want.
ReplyDeleteI've seen you're moving from here to Lowetide.ca, which means.. you're moving away from Blogger to Wordpress. Any particular reason as to why?
Reason I'm asking is because I'm thinking of moving my Swedish Oil to one of them. One reason for moving being not able to make comments on mine while in "mobile"-mode (which I've just now found out - it's really irritating). Tried bit of both before, can't say I like Wordpress so much.. never really liked their "post-UI" sort of speak. Considered blogger as it's Google and I thereby bound to my Google-account which I use on a daily basis anyway.
Speaking of Swedish Oil, updated it with the status of Omark and Hartikainen, dunno if you've heard but if not - Omark is out 'til mid February.
We need both real badly lol
ReplyDeleteFranchise defenseman, even though it will probably also take another good prospect a and maybe even a few picks to get it done, Hemsky by himself won't.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand the need to go after physical players, since they likely won't be able to create goals themselves. Besides, Hall can still develop into a Stamkos or Rick Nash type player.
Swedish Oil: Two reasons for the move. First, blogger doesn't really give you a way to ban users who derail conversations. It's a pain, but honestly I'm too old to spend my evenings as a ref on here. The funny thing is some of the worst culprits also make some of the best points.
ReplyDeleteThe other is that I have a better chance to monetize under wordpress, something that appeals to me on several levels. Not the least of which is I'm probably less than a decade from retirement and wouldn't mind a small amount of money coming in each month to pay for the dog treats and instant coffee. :-)
The "power forward" is to hockey as the power pitcher is to baseball. Both are highly coveted and hard to get.
ReplyDeleteThe top power forward prospects not yet in the NHL might be Coyle, Kreider, Etem. I am sure I have missed some. I don't think Hemsky gets you one of those guys. Does he? If he does, great.
I think the point is that the Oilers have too many "small" forwards. Hall - RNH - Eberle are not going anywhere. But maybe trading 2 of Hemsky, Gagner, and Omark gives you a power forward or in return and you develop another. They need a few guys with some hands and crust.
Maybe Penner comes back as a FA? He certainly can't have enjoyed his time in LA and now Sutter will be riding his ass.
This team is not close enough to get picky over whether they guy coming back for Hemsky is a D or F. Just get the BPA.
The correct answer is that we need Ales Hemsky.
ReplyDeleteIf you trade him, you get a solid defenceman capable of doing just about anything. Think Joni Pitkanen but apparently not Joni Pitkanen. They seem to get re-signed before becoming UFAs.
No need for a "power forward", which is usually code for attempting to make up for a lack of skill with size that is rarely used. Cam Neely #2 isn't exactly floating around in the good waiting to be claimed. We also happen to have this guy named Teemu who is pretty awesome.
If you want someone larger sign Dustin Penner in the offseason for cheap. Want a vet who's kinda tough? Sign Doan. Want a C that can do it all? Sign Stoll. There's all kinds of things sitting there for $$$s alone.
I think my short answer is dman. We all saw what Pronger did the one year he was here.
ReplyDeleteI brought up Stewart as a possibility last thread but he'd probably be hard to get. My guess is you have to develop this talent.
If you had to choose between Lucic and Chara you pick Chara everytime. A Lucic is hard to get, a Chara is next to impossible.
Get a high Pick and the rest doesn't matter no team in the hunt can give up a NHL defenseman. Washington is where hemsky is going maybe Buffalo. We are the ones who should be selling a D-men what could we get for whitney, Omark + HMMM... Webber? Nashville needs to stay competetive if the get a number 1-2 they can afford they'll deal him at the deadline. Then we sign Suter,Bernier and Penner in the summer. Move Sutton, Habby(T-bay (1st rnd and Roloson) Horc or Belanger,Smyth(pure rental he'd chase stanley and be back in the fall) and Barker(someone will take him at the deadline). Tank one last year draft Nail or a D. Make the play-offs next year.
ReplyDeleteWebber Sutter
Gilbert Smid D 23 mil
Petry Potter
Peckam
Paajarvi RNH Eberle 7.5
Hall Nail Gagner 10
Penner Horcoff Hartikainen 9.5
Jones Lander Smyth 5 mil
Eager and ------ 2
Dubnyk and Bernier 3
60 million
Play Horc between Nail and Hall next year then trade his contract in the summer.
LMF:
ReplyDeleteI'm a huge Hemsky fan, but even I get the feeling that it's time for him to move on, both for the Oilers and for him to become the player we know he can be.
The sad part, is we'll likely need a player like Ales 2-3 years down the line when we become an actual contending club.
Maybe we can get him back then, like we did Smyth...
One thing the top lines do very poorly is skate in straight lines and finish their checks. You can see it on the forecheck where the opposing defender simply holds onto the puck and our skilled guys circle around with outstretched sticks, a few feet out of reach. Laughable. If I'm an NHL defender, I play against the kids without an ounce of fear until they get the puck 200 feet from my goal. A top sixer who could bring some oomph to the perimeter kids is the final piece to their puzzle. Combine 2 of the kids with a guy like that and you have an elite line, not just a bunch of elite players on the same line.
ReplyDeleteI hate the word policeman... Someone in the vein of Malone and Gagne in TB or Lucic in Boston, just a good Canadian boy who skates in straight lines and plays honest. We have an embarrasment of riches should we decide to make a deal. By the end of the year, we could have both a top 4D and a top 6 Power Forward if we wanted to...
money coming in each month to pay for the dog treats and instant coffee. :-)
ReplyDeleteI spend almost a month in Egypt (pre-revolution) and there are two options for coffee. Turkish or Nescafe.
I like Turkish, but 3 of those and you can hear conversations in airplanes flying overhead.
Almost everyone serves Nescafe with steamed milk, so it was a Nescafe Latte festival.
I got so used to it I actually bought Nescafe when I got home.
dohfOs,
One reason for moving being not able to make comments on mine while in "mobile"-mode (which I've just now found out - it's really irritating).
Go to the bottom and click on "view web version". You can make comments then after clicking on "post a comment"
Works for me anyhow.
Also,
You are not getting a roster player of consequence for Hemsky, so its either a pick and prospect, or just a pick.
My guess is a 1st and C prospect, or an A prospect and a 2nd or 3rd.
Might only be pick if its a first.
In terms of the prospect, the org sees Harski as a top 9 guy soon and Pitlik behind by a year.
The D bubbling under is 3-4 years away from meaningful NHL games.
I'd like Voynov or similar.
I wanted him for Penner instead of Tuebert.
You are not going to get a roster Dman in-season for a rental. Not unless their contract is expiring too.
Hemsky's value for the oil will be a prospect d or forward.
ReplyDeleteIf they take a pick it will be too late to help our young guys.
My own opinion is we need a D more than grit forwards but take the best offer as we need both
D. No doubter. We have young guys like Harti and Pitlick who could fit that skilled big guy role but we dont have enough established DMen. We could really use a solid top 4 PMD.
ReplyDeleteColton Teubert.
ReplyDeleteColton Teubert.
ReplyDeletev3.2 would probably make that trade.
The argument isn't about forward vs D. It's about the need for sandpaper that can really play hockey.
ReplyDeleteTherefore, I say a talented D-man with sandpaper over a power forward. A Chara / Weber type. They're on the ice half the game to "police" vs a power forward's 18min.
Unfortunately, that's going to cost a lot more than just Hemsky.
Lowetide,
ReplyDeleteWould you do this trade?
Sam Gagner for Brandon Sutter
Power forward if they r NHL ready, dman if prospect. D take longer, and any dman prospect will take a few years. Doubt you could do it, but look at teams who are struggling and have owners who want to win - Buffalo being a huge one. Can you get Zach Kassian? Dount if Buffalo does it, but I would make that deal, even if it means adding a piece since Kassian is NHL ready and adds a dimension we lack. New owner, lots of money spent, their owner may want to win now and Hemsky adds a dimension they lack (they have lots of size)
ReplyDeletehmm! okposo. might need hemsky +
ReplyDeleteHemsky is worth a 3rd maybe 2nd round pick.
ReplyDeleteHemsky is worth a 3rd maybe 2nd round pick.
ReplyDeleteDominic Moore was traded for a second round pick at the deadline on two separate occasions. Ales Hemsky is a better player than Dominic Moore.
Penner got a 1st and a prospect. If Hemsky gets healthy and runs hard for a month you'll get at least a 1st. I would prefer nhl ready prospects. Need to push for a run for the next 2 years while kids are on entry level deals.
ReplyDelete@Woodguy:
ReplyDeleteYeah, I know you can manually switch to the web version. But I doubt most ppl considers that. They see "oh, I can't comment.. well fuck it then" or well, kinda :) Thanks anyway for trying to help, appreciated.
And I agree with the following:
"I'd like Voynov or similar.
I wanted him for Penner instead of Tuebert."
Watching Hawks-Habs: Viktor Stalberg would certainly fit the bill of power forward with hands. He's a L wing though
ReplyDeleteHemsky alone won't get you Stalberg.
I don't mind Bickel as well for some size on a 3rd line.
If ST is looking to get a meaningful Dman he'll have to sweeten the pot.
If 83 continues at this pace he won't fetch anything close to what Penner fetched - at that point they may as well resign him and pray.
Definitely needs to be traded for defence, either immediate help or prospects will do nicely.
ReplyDeleteWe are simply over loaded with forwards, both immediate and prospects. The problem is our defencemen can't get them the puck!
ReplyDeleteUnless Hemsky returns to prime 2006 form for a solid month, I doubt you're going to get a real NHL defender (let alone a really good one) nor a power forward as return. I think maybe too many OilFans see who he was and not who he is right now. :( Ideally, Hemsky gets his game back and he stays in Edmonton. If he's traded right now, it won't be for much and that'd make me sad.
ReplyDeletePenner got a 1st and a prospect.
ReplyDeleteHe had a year left on his contract (though I'm not sure how thrilled the Kings wound up being with that.
I hate to agree with Clarkenstein - just on principle - but unless Hemsky goes on a nice run this year, I can't see him getting a first.
This is exactly how Atlantas, Columbuses, and Islanders happen. Sure, we have some great forwards sitting in OKC including Harski, Omark, and Paajarvi. But for all our hopes and assessments, none of them have scored 70 pts in an NHL season (Hemsky has twice), and none of them could play against Datsyuk's line and hold their own (as Hemmer did the other night). I love those kids and I wish every day that the Oilers could have five lines, but it's clear that TODAY Hemsky is the best of those four guys (and better than any other player on the farm as well).
ReplyDeleteThis team really needs defencemen who can eat minutes with calm feet. Those don't grow on trees and certainly no one will give you a star defenceman in this league for anything, so it will have to be a prospect (hopefully one that's close like Brendan Smith). If Weber or Suter are offered for almost anything, pull the trigger. Otherwise, the Oilers have already been doing this dance for years - we used to have balance, then we lost some dmen so we traded forwards to make room, then we had dmen (remember when Gilbert and Souray both scored 45 pts, Vis had 30 in 50 games and even Staios was only a -5?) so we traded them for draft picks and brought in rookie forwards. Well, now we have a glut of forwards again. And yes, we need defencemen again. But if we keep trading one for the other on the assumption that 'someone young' will become a 70 pt player who can play against the league's best players so long as we have a decent defence core, we're hooped.
NHL GM is a really hard job precisely because this team needs to add defencemen without losing quality, prime-aged forwards. If they move Hemsky for a defensive prospect, our window moves back a little while we wait for a tough minutes forward to develop. And then Belanger, Horcoff, Smyth, and maybe even Whitney and Gilbert all start reaching the outer limits of their usefulness and our window moves back again. And then our youth are all highly paid and we don't have any cap breaks and our window moves back again. The line between 'rebuild' and 'perpetual rebuild' is very fine and involves both acquiring good young talent (few draft misses) and managing talent around the young players so that they don't get owned by more experienced stars.
In my opinion, this is not the year to clear the deck of Gags and Hemsky etc. I know it's the most convenient year given their contract status, but it's not the best year for the team. So sign Hemsky and when the first training camp comes that he's not among your best 6 forwards, trade him then. I would bet it's another 3 or 4 years before we see that camp.
In the meantime, it's actually easier to acquire prime-aged and veteran defenceman if you trade prospects to teams that are going to miss the playoffs. So I believe we should trade some of the outrageous raw talent currently in OKC for the Mark Eaton/Brett Clark/Kyle Quincey-esk defencemen who must be currently available. Tim Gleason or Toni Lydman might look good on the Oil, for instance. We could emulate Vancouver's defence core of 6 playable guys without giving up critical pieces or too many draft bullets.
@ IRE
ReplyDeleteSee how Dale Tallon does it for reference.
The man is a genius.
Jeff Skinner on I.R.
ReplyDelete'Canes call up Riley Nash.
DSF
ReplyDeleteYa Tallon was brilliant the way he overpaid 6 players by 20% each, including Cam Barker. Brillian. Genius.
The best thing the Oilers could do with Hemsky is tell him to take a month off, and re-sign him before July 1 for 2 years 8 million.
He is a lot like Tanguay who took 1.5 years to recover from his shoulder surgery, is 4 years older than Hemsky and is playing really well now. Hemsky's career is not over and when he returns to form he will be soo much better than anything you could get for him now. So don't trade him, and when he is playing better, if you want to trade him, evaluate what is most needed then.
@ Oilersfan.
ReplyDeleteYeah, built the Hawks cup winner(and they gave him a ring) and has taken the Panthers from last to first in one offseason.
Tambellini looks real good by that metric.
BTW, Hemsky's trade value peaked at last season's trade deadline and it's now flatlining.
Who knew?
Lots of latitude with the term power forward. LT mentions crash and bang type but that's not a 100% descriptor. Neely and Tkachuk were Pf's for sure but I would also put John Toews in that category. Don't have to scrap to be a PF. Just be tough along the boards, willing to throw and take a hit, AND have O talent. Backes is a decent example. So are Getzlaf and Perry.
ReplyDeleteWe def don't have that on any line that I can see and Jones might be the closest, not a great example, that we do.
Kassian looks like he could be one one day but Buff's not taking on any salary w/o some coming back. Love to have the kid though.
Whatever and whoever we dont have enough of it in the system. Hemsky alone isn't going to land what we need on D or F but we've got lots in the pipeline that could sweeten the deal.
The Hemsky deal that I hope for is Hemsky for Gorges, UFA for UFA.
ReplyDeleteGive Gorges a chance to test drive Edmonton, and vice versa. Gives the Oilers first shot at signing Gorges in May and June.
I don't see the need for a power forward and I can't see anyone giving up a top defenceman for Hemsky without bonus materials.
ReplyDeleteIf they were to trade him, I think they'd have to package him with something good to get anything of value back. I wouldn't do the Penner trade for Hemsky.
I'd hope for the best and sign him on the cheap, no matter what the outcome of this season is (the worse he does, the cheaper he signs for).
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, or so it appears in this thread...
ReplyDeleteHemsky will be traded for a pick and prospect or two prospects, bookie it.
When do we start talking about packaging our picks with these guys? We've got what we need out of the lottery, so why wait around tanking (or just being mediocre), waiting for the kids to grow up (they are grown up).
ReplyDeleteIf we're talking about trading Hemsky, Gagner, etc, why dont we start adding some picks to sweeten the deal? An Oiler 1st or 2nd rounder plus Hemmer could get a seasoned primo D man from the right under-achieving team.
Time to shift, or start thinking about shifting the strategy, Non?
We still need a big center who can win some faceoffs, win battles against the boards and bury some pucks. I am hoping when we draft in the top 5 this offseason we get our center. And then pray we manage to sign Suter as a UFA cause I can't see Tambo pulling the trigger on any deals and if we keep hemsky sign him for 1-2 year deal on a discount to allow him to prove he can play again at the level he played at in 06 cause he sure as hell isn't playing like that now.
ReplyDeleteI'd trade him for a defensemen. Plus I'd still go after Weber when he tests free agency and pay the man.
ReplyDeleteHe would be happy in a place like Edmonton where he can drive around his quad or sled and field dress deer.
A power forward would be nice. But if we could make a top pairing d-man magically appear it would solve a lot of problems on this roster.
ReplyDeleteRight now we have a good 2nd pairing d-men (5, 77); we have a top pairing d-man one who is not the same as he was a year ago (6) - which is to be expected given the injury. We have a couple of kids that we have to be patient with (58, 24), one who can't stop getting suspended (25) and 44 who was a great spare parts pick up.
Until the defense is addressed - and it might be some time, this team will only marginally improve.
godot: After watching this play again I think I'd like to keep Hemsky over Gorges (#6 for SJS).
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqVgu6ZFKyk&feature=fvsr
If the Oilers trade Hemsky, they just open up another hole. Eberle gets hurt and we will all be talking about Omark's lack of speed coming off a knee injury instead of Hemsky's slump coming off shoulder problems. Hemsky is a superb hockey player with history here, Tambi should sign him.
How about a forward that can SCORE?! What a concept, scoring goals and not relying on the first line?! I don't want "Coke Machines", I want talent that can score goals. We will need some scoring playing against Minnesota.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't matter how good the forwards are if most of the arrows are pointing the wrong way on the blue.
ReplyDeleteWe need to fix the back end all kinds of bad. A top pairing D to play with Whitney and hopefully get him back on track is what we need more than another forward.
A more stable back end will mean less play in our own end which will help the forwards by default. The less you play in your end the less goals you give up, and (in theory) the more goals you will score, since you will have more time on the good side of center.
There is no way for the Oilers to significantly improve their team by moving Hemsky.
ReplyDeleteYou don't get the dman, because any team wanting Hemsky is a contender.
All the Oilers will do is get picks and prospects, which because I don't think he will sign here is going to have to be good enough.
What spOILer said, you don't get an established player for a UFA. It will be a first round pick or a prospect.
ReplyDeleteSign him.
They could badly use a solid offensive defenseman more than the shotgun riding winger. look at Detroit, they have solid wingers but not shotgub riders. But they do have quality offensive defensemen with defensive ability.
ReplyDeleteI think we need more forward depth. We have a tonne of defensive prospects and we can address more immediate needs in the off season with free agency. On the wings we're actually a little weak and highly dependant on guys like Hartikainen, Hamilton and Pitlick all turning out. I'd ideally like to add a Tomas Tatar or a Tomas Jurco from Detroit.
ReplyDeleteMr. Smitty:
ReplyDeleteIf we draft in the top 5 I doubt we're getting another center, considering the talent at D at the top of the draft.
Also, Horcoff's NTC changing to a 10-team NMC in July could make him trade bait for a young 2nd tier, larger center.
IMO the team needs a 2nd C with size as bad as that first pairing NHL D.
ReplyDeleteTake the best offer available based on that. We need them both. I would also take a lottery pick. Anything out of the top five would have to be in conjunction with a player.
If no one has a decent offer, I sure hope that ST doesn't snooker himself. It is looking like a dengerous game with Hemmer to me.
Impact forward or top 4 defensemen always have value, and hence are difficult to find. Power forward? As in a PIM guy or a big guy?
ReplyDeletePIM guy - Chris Stewarts seems to be having troubles finding his way in St. Louis despite the team success lately.
Big guy - Old Dustin Penner may shake loose in LA for much less than we traded him for.
Personally I think the Oilers need a versatile two way defender and when I mean two way, I mean solid defensively with good outlet pass and start the attack. Like a Charlie Huddy type.