Time cannot erase the memories. In the early to mid-70s, fighting against the Habs, Bruins, and Rangers, a group of nice boys and nasty men represented the second city. Two pennants ('71, '73) and a long list of greats worthy of the Hall, and really the first team to recognize the extreme value of the US college player in numbers.
Keith Magnuson was from Saskatoon. He'd played for the Blades before going to the University of Denver after graduating high school. Denver (NCAA) became a great resource for the Hawks, and this was years before college kids started getting drafted in numbers.
This is Cliff Koroll, same thing. U Denver. Kid from Canora, Saskatchewan who played college hockey and then graduated to the NHL via the Blackhawks. Not drafted, Koroll would have a quality career with Chicago as a fine 2-way winger.
I apologize for the quality of this photo, but it was the only one of Gerry Pinder I could find during his days with the Hawks. Pinder and his brother Herb were legendary Saskatoon Blades and Pinder played for the Canada at the 1968 Olympics. Turned pro with Chicago and had three solid NHL seasons before jumping to the WHA.
Looking back, it might seem as though the '71 and '73 teams were about Mikita, Hull, Tony Esposito, Pit Martin, Bill White and Pat Stapleton and that's certainly true. However, Chicago found a way to increase the talent pool via NCAA hockey players and were very effective at it. The 67-68 Denver Pioneers alone sent them Keith Magnuson, Cliff Koroll and Jim Wiste (shown below in a 1972 Rochester Americans uniform).
Today, Chicago's leader is Jonathan Toews. Kid from Winnipeg, played college hockey at UND and then found his way to Chicago. Today's lineup may boast college men like Toews, Duncan Keith, Nick Leddy, Patrick Sharp. It's a fine tradition.
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I don't have much to say about the Oilers. I could say if they win today it'll be a .500 roadtrip but the things learned on this trip are far more valuable than the wins or losses:
The Kid Line isn't getting it done. Reading Dennis King's scoring chances, I have Taylor Hall's time on ice at evens good for 12-19 in scoring chances. 5-17 in the last three games of the road trip. The soft parade can be put to better use, I'd say. Expect the lines to get an overhaul next week in practice.
Theo Peckham has taken a giant leap backwards. It may cost him his NHL job.
Cam Barker is who we thought he was.
The PK is off the rails.
The fourth line is on life support.
Sam Gagner is finding his form but the chem on that line has nothing bubbling in the lab.
I'm hoping they can bring home a point today, but that's just a fan's wish. In the words of David Bowe, this is ourselves, under pressure. Kids learn, but watching it can be painful.
So what do you do then LT? blender it up? I thought the other night when he changed the lines some chemistry happened, but then Renney went back to old lines and killed momentum. If we are mixing it up, do we try for the whole balanced thing: vet, skilled kid, two way responsible player/grinder.
Omark should be up and maybe Lander down, but right now Renney is running with who he trusts. These lines have that "balance", gives us 2 lines who can be trusted in all zone, allows Gagner a chance to be productive, and puts Belanger in a true checking role along with Petrell (who is a solid 4th liner). He doesn't have to protect any of the lines, with the exception of RNH having faceoff issues, but smyth can step in when needed.
Well, I'm as crappy as crappy can be with this stuff, but here goes:
1. Horcoff-Hall-Eberle: It worked a year ago, and the kids should adjust quickly and hopefully find chem.
2. RNH-Smyth-Hemsky: Since 94 has decided to turn back the clock and play enormous minutes, lets give him the future to mentor along with everything else.
3. Gagner-Paajarvi-Omark: I know it bled badly for a long time last season, but thet did improve as the season wore on.
4. Belanger-Jones-Petrell: The 4line has been subpar on the trip and adding Belanger to the group should settle things down.
Well I'm not going to say that Ren/Tamb shouldn't do anything to get this team going again, but I will say that mgmt will probably show some restraint when it comes to big changes.
We have two different agendas here: task management and project management. Task mgmt addresses getting some wins, project mgmt is about turning these kids into the best hockey players that they can be and managing this team's assets properly.
Task mgmt would dictate that we bring up O!, shuffle some lines around, and sit Dubnky for a good stretch. Project mgmt would leave O! in OKC for a while longer because if he plays 4 more NHL games, he'll have to pass through waivers going up/down again. PM might also not want to wear out Khabby too soon, keeping him fresh and on top of his game when the trade deadline nears.
It will be interesting to see what happens in the coming weeks, but we have to remember that this team is NOT going to keep winning at a near 0.75 pace, no matter which line combos or AHL callups we use. Still, I'm sure we'll see no end of calls for Tambi's/Renney's head.
1. I'd suck it up for tonight and leave things more or less the same. Once back on home ice the match-ups can be made a bit easier and we'll be back on track.
2. Hemsky has lost the puck in his own end too much. It seems to die on his stick in the o-zone too much. I used to love the guy, but injuries/inability to make simple play/poor cycle makes me think he should not play with Smyth and Horc. Put Jones back there and figure out a new plan with Hemsky.
macaotim: you ned to know what you have with Gagner. BAsically his training camp is now over, so this is like his first game in the regular season. This is a huge year for him in this organization. We need to know if he is the 2nd line centre we need, or if he is trade bait. I think you give him a few weeks with solid linemates and see what he does. If it doesn't work, then you HS him or you package him with a peckham type and add a useful piece.
Gagner…I always thought the benchmark for an above average player was his ability to elevate the play of his linemates, not to try to find players to make him better.
He needs to show he can be that catalyst to have a future on this team. If I absolutely had to slot him in:
@Clarkenstein: The St. John's Evening Telgram used to have a Weekend magazine on Fridays )no Saturday OR Sunday edition! I used to be a carrier) that featured a colour pic of a hockey star. It was always full height (of both player and page) ~half width of the page, with text running down the other half. Is that what you're talking about with Star Weekly?
Ever since Hemsky's return to the PP, I seem to have noticed the Kid Line spending it's PP time passing the puck endlessly around, just like Ales likes to do.
Of course I could simply be insanely biased, having watched hundreds of Hemsky-to Horcoff in the slot passes over the years.
So hemsky's been back a few games now, and we have lost all of them. Not his fault, although in some respects it may be. His return changed the lineup and the chemistry on the bottom 3 lines. The kids were due to fall back a bit on a grueling road trip, so that is no surprise, but the rest of the lines, while not having much chemistry, have done nothing. Maybe it makes more sense to try and get the bottom lines up and running, and leave the top 2 alone.
Hall-RNH-Eberle - let them grow as much as possible. They'll come out of it.
Smyth-Horcoff-Jones - the most chemistry of all of them, and defensively as good as we have.
MPS-Gagner-Hemsky - basically trying to jump start all of them. This line may have been our top line in July when we thought of the new lineup. A chance to be our top line, and gives Renney an offensive line with some defensive conscience
Lander-Belanger-Petrell - a true checking line, and a chance to pot a few goals. Renney would trust them like the 2nd line, so it gives him two checking lines and two offensive lines. Only line needing sheltering is the kids, nut they will only get better
not sure if this is the lineup, but copper and blue have this up
Ryan Smyth - Shawn Horcoff - Ales Hemsky Magnus Paajarvi - Sam Gagner - Ryan Jones Taylor Hall - Ryan Nugent-Hopkins - Jordan Eberle Ben Eager - Eric Belanger - Lennart Petrell
Ladislav Smid - Tom Gilbert Andy Sutton - Corey Potter Theo Peckham - Jeff Petry
Last year was about development. This year is about development and winning as many as you lose. The goal isn't winning all the games yet.
The long term goal is to win a Stanley Cup.
The kid line gets play time at home, and hard school work on the road. There is nothing particularly wrong with that. This is their first major road trip. If they don't show slow improvement on their second road trip, well then one perhaps readjusts.
I would give Hemsky his own line. Jones back with Horcoff and Smyth. Paajarvi and Lander with Hemsky. and Petrell and Gagner with Belanger.
I don't think people who want to move Belanger down have properly evaluated how important he has been to the team's defense. IMO.
The way I see it, Horcoff and Belanger have been great defensively and this has made life a whole lot easier for our crappy defensemen.
I like Gagner's offense but if we're throwing Gagner and RNH out at most of the game at C, with our crappy D, we're going to get killed by the other team's offense. IMO.
But then again, I'm not against giving Gagner a shot to see if he can play C better than Belanger right now. But, Belanger is a pretty good C.
Well if we're coming off the road, the time to mess with the lines is tonight. We know the lines work reasonably well at home (yes I know the 3rd can't score anywhere), so what's the point of messing with success there?
(of course something will need to be done long term but the laboratory is available now for testing, not next game)
And of course the Hawks are one of those teams with 3 strong solid centres, so our lack of experienced depth is gonna stick out like Tbars at the mall... You know you should avert your eyes but you never do.
89 has about 10 days until I start to worry about him, but I haven't seen much for progress yet. He missed the net by alot on 3 good SC the other night. I know his shot isn't his best asset, but for a guy who's expected to produce offense at least hit the net.
He seems to be stationary alot when he gets the puck which is never a good thing for a guy who isn't real quick on his feet.
His PP work has shown some flashes, but he has forced some low percentage plays into traffic.
He's got time yet, but if his level of play remains stagnant (especially on the PP) and there are no injuries in the top 6 Renney is going to start to wonder where he fits.
The good news is he has established a previous level of play much higher than this and he's a smart cookie so I fully expect him to pot 2 tonight ;)
It has become fairly clear that different lines for home vs. road are necessary for a while. Also, our D couldn't fake it til they made it (or Whitney returned). Both of these things could be easily corrected without compromising "the future".
You have to spread out the opposition's top 2 pairs across 3 lines to get your scoring lines any kind of soft ice on the road.
Look at the D match ups in the last two games: (total ice time, so special teams times skew things) when the opposition doesn't have to worry about the 3rd line:
Hopkins vs:
Kronwall 9.9m Stuart 7.6m
Lidstrom 2.3m White 2.7m
Kindl 2.2m Ericsson 2.3m
Hemsky vs:
Kronwall 3.3m Stuart 3.8m
Lidstrom 8.7m White 8.9m
Kindl 0.5m Ericsson 1.8m
Gagner vs:
Kronwall 3.0m Stuart 0.4m
Lidstrom 1.8m White 1.4m
Kindl 5.9m Ericsson 5.9m
Lets's look at the same for the Boston game:
Hopkins vs:
Chara 5.5m Boychcuk 1.7m
Corvo 6.6m Seidenberg 6.7m
Ferrence 1.6m McQuaid 5.5m
Hemsky vs:
Chara 10.9 Boychcuk 11.7
Corvo 1.3m Seidenberg 2.9m
Ferrence 0m McQuaid 0.6
Gagner vs:
Chara 1.8m Boychcuk 1.1m
Corvo 4.8m Seidenberg 4.4m
Ferrence 2.9m McQuaid 4.2
So when Gagner's line is on the ice, both BOS and DET where considering it a free ride, not to even mention the 4th.
94-10-28 had results against the tough forwards.
If you run the lines as stated above, that gives the Oilers 3 lines with fire power, so there will be some significant 3rd pairing minutes against one of the first 3 lines, probably 10's line.
94-10-28 has shown they can cycle well and get chances off the cycle, if they see 3rd pairing behind the best forwards, then that is a very favorable result.
As it stands, you don't have to worry about the 3rd line.
Also,
Tonight's lines look like:
4-93-14 94-10-83 91-89-28 55-20-37
Good.
Close to what I like. I don't think 28 is a good fit with 89, but that line will get some uber-soft minutes, they better make hay.
Well since we know Eberle can play anywhere, and it has come out that Paajarvi has had some experience at RW, I'd be tempted to flip them. Get Magnus on his off wing, looking for the back door passes, and he likes to cross over coming into the zone. Hemmer crosses over at will too... I've always thought he should play LW like he did at the Worlds way back on Jagr's line:
HALL HORC EBER SMYT NUGE JONE HEMS GAGN PAAJ LAND BELA PETR
I would be okay with this wing flip too:
HALL NUGE PAAJ SMYT HORC GAGN EBER BELA HEMS PETR LAND JONE
Either way, with Hemsky and another speedy winger on the 3rd, the 3rd line centre can totally cheat for D and let the wingers go create havoc.
Olesz on D, hmm. Interesting. Budreau played Laich 20+ minuted on D last night and the results were quite positive. Byfuglian is a similar example.
Good way to get some extra forwards in the lineup that otherwise may be a HS, especially if your bottom D pair is iffy and you plan on playing a forward at D on the PP anyway..
What Oiler forwards would you play on D?
As mentioned before on here, 91 would be intresting at D - I'd like to see him wind it up from his own end.
I don't think you break up 94-10. They've have done fantastic work against the other teams toughs.
I think getting 83 off that line isn't just good for spreading the offense, but helps the defence.
83 plays a high event game, and turn overs in bad spots is the price you pay for his scoring chances.
Turn overs against the oppositions best scoring line (playing with 94-10) will hurt more in the long run than playing with X-89, where they are more likely to see a checking line.
I don't mind 20 moving down to the 4th line. His line and 89's will probably have similar ice time, and 20 can spell off a winger and come in for D-zone draws like 10 did for the 3 years the Oilers only had 1 C who could take a draw.
89 is also better then 57 on draws, so you aren't losing much in those terms.
- According to the coach, No. 55 will play for sure, but the player in which he'll replace is still up in the air.
It's expected that Anton Lander will be the odd-man out.
- Oilers defenseman Cam Barker is expected to miss Sunday's game with an ankle injury, and Ryan Whitney is out for three weeks after suffering a sprained right knee in late October.
I think I still have a bunch of the little Esso cards they used to give out. I remember trying to pick them off of the ground by the pumps and my parents telling me to leave them there as they were full of dirt and gas and snow. But they were right there! How could someone just drop them on the ground like that! Good times.
I can't see Renney sitting both Barker and Peckham (most of the traffic on this site would be fine with it), but putting 91 on D with Sutton would be a way to get Omark back in.
The lineup is getting smaller and less physical the more I type so I can't see Renney doing it anyway.
Worth a shot. Getting 89 back to his natural position should be an improvement.
That D - it's so funny, they're starting to show cracks, but If you saw that D lineup for opening night most fans would immediately start looking to the 2012 draft.
Harry Potter - what a find Gilbert, Smid - both playing the best defensive hockey of their careers Petry - Coming along nicely Sutton - Good on PK, passable at evens.
Anyone have thoughts on the potential impact of the Rielly and Galchenyuk ACL injuries? Assuming the Oilers end up picking in the 6th-14th range, maybe those injuries help the Oilers get a player who would otherwise have gone before they pick?
Obviously it's gonig to depend how their recoveries go, etc, a lot of other factors, but it'll be interesting to see where those players might go, like Cowen and Connolly the last couple of years.
spOILer, I noticed that about PRV as well. Ge usually is on the right side when he makes that "power" move to the net. That might work. He also needs to learn to cut harder to the front and not get pushed behind the net by the Dman.
The third line has been the Achilles heel for this team--not the goalies or defense (except Teddy) as most were prognosticating. The third line (and any combination thereof) has been brutally soft, and generally lost in transition--(translation?!). While this road trip has highlighted a variety of weaknesses, a lot of it is due to relatively easy line-matching by opposing coaches who know the third line is soft--even with one of the best face-off men in the league.
Speeds' suggestion for a Thursday practice line-up looks very appealing. Another possibility is the exchange of Harski for PRV, which would allow PRV to get some confidence on the farm.
They should certainly have as good a read into Reinhart's background and character as they could hope for, in any event.
He appears to be in the range, I certainly wouldn't be shocked if he were EDM's pick depending, of course, on how the year goes for both him and the Oilers.
Do you guys think Reinhart brings enough offense, to take that early?
I haven't really followed the Oil Kings this year. His numbers aren't great, but given the D depth with the Oil Kings I wouldn't be too surprised if he isn't getting a ton of PP time.
I expect a lot of break aways. The Oilers system has been figured out there's tons of room in the middle of the ice. Unless Renney has done some work with their forecheck, I expect some wide open guys spliting the d in this game. I still like how the Oilers are playing if you look at the team we just played they're tourching everyone not just the Oilers.
We have run into a few hot teams on this road trip. I'm hoping for a good game.
I wouldn't draft Reinhart in the top 20, but expect the Oilers would. I think Dumba will be a very dynamic player but the Oilers will go for the guy with more defense.
My feeling is that Renney has made the zone start umbrella a little too big on the road. You have to give RNH favourable zone starts, but then if you build a line with Hall/RNH/Eberle, you turn into a two line team, which WG and others have pointed out is a recipe for giving the opponent's third defensive pair a free ride.
I think Hall and Eberle have the tools (physical and mental) to saw off defensive zone starts except against the other team's danger unit. Horc and Smyth are the guys to skate uphill against live rounds.
My Mendoza line for keeping Hemmer is whether he's willing to adjust his game plan to play effectively with RNH. The need to learn how to terrorize the opposition with instant one-touch give and goes for two periods, and after the opposition becomes a twitchy mess then Hemmer can explode some guy's jockstrap who is three feet out of position late in the game.
However I dress it up, what I'm looking for from Hemmer is the ability to adopt more than one combat profile, and the savvy to switch it up as game circumstance dictates.
If I had three one way mind-melds to dish out, it would be something like:
I brought up the idea a few days ago about using different lines at home and on the road and good to see the idea picking up steam.
Maybe Staples can "borrow" this one as well;)
All that being said, I think this is a novel idea and I don't remember any teams being dedicated to using different line combos depending upon the city. So, I'm not sure how feasible this would be.
I think Speeds had the best set of lines in terms of spreading vets around and creating three lines that could score but I don't know if two of them could play PVP.
The Oiler as constructed when they left rexall would be fine at home; though a lot of pressure on the kids when you play a team with two good lines and we only need look back at the games vs Van and Wsh to see what can happen.
The third line being a fucking sinkhole is just as big a problem as the kids birth certificates, IMO. 91-89 are shitting the bed - along with 20 - in terms of teams not even caring enough about them to match and yet they do nothing.
We're getting to the point where - in the cases of 20-91 - it's becoming a significant sample size.
Right now the 10 isn't able to have an off-game and we'll still compete. So, obviously, all things should be tried in order to achieve balance.
I'd suggest iRenew bracelets but I imagine Kevin Lowe has already thought of that.
Jones is the third RW, and 4line is Belanger-Eager-Petrell. Looks solid, plus the D appear to be more logical, providing they shorten the third pair minutes.
What was the last line the Oilers iced that had more offensive talent than "Hall-RNH-Hemsky"?
Nothing during the cup run. Not sure Weight ever had a line that offensively gifted. (Some lines he was on or Horcoff has been on may have been more effective at both ends of the ice.)
I think Speeds had the best set of lines in terms of spreading vets around and creating three lines that could score but I don't know if two of them could play PVP.
You have to start with the assumption that 10 is getting 30% Ozone starts and go from there.
That makes 94 and 10 joined at the hip for the year, imo.
I didn't think the Eskimos would win today, glad they did. Stamps QB situation did them in, imo. Burris had one of the craziest seasons in CFL history.
Since everyone's feeling terrible right now about Taylor Hall, I'd like to tell you all about another former top draft pick named Greg Joly.
Seems like Joly only had one move that had gotten him through juniors, so after a pretty decent NHL rookie season the rest of the league learned how to shut him down and he busted.
Cornet with his 9th and 10th tonight in OKC. I keep thinking Omark or Hartikainen might get the call when Lander is sent down, but maybe the kid from the Q makes it.
Cornet looked head and shoulders above most everyone else at the Young Stars game. I put it down to his age, but it's starting to look like he might be the real deal (at the A level anyway).
i told myself at the outset of the season that i'd be happy with any game the Oilers scored 3 or more goals, regardless of the damage done the other way.
By my eye, Sutton and Barker are slow and get beat fairly often. But Peckham gets beat as often, and Peckham is worse with the puck, and Peckham is worse positionally.
Do others agree? Or is Peckham better than the other two pylons.
I really thought Belangers tendancy to pass the puck to no one was just something that happens every now and then. I've seen him do it three times this game.
He made a nice play early, a beauty. But if we compare his chances, how he's carrying the puck and his confidence level I don't think he's close to where he was this time a year ago.
Probably going to need 2 top pairing D. Can't count on Whitney at all. The scary part is that if Gilbert or Smid go down we'll be crafting nooses faster than Blue Jackets fans.
Hall is not where he was at last year, that's a fact. In all honesty I think he's been garbage this year. I don't think he's a garbage player but holy moly has he ever done sweet F.A. so far. I'm looking forward to him pulling out of it. I thought this game was looking like an improvement, till you know, he blew it so hard. Not a good place.
Paajarvi gets no special teams time, so he'd be behind Petrell and Belagner on the 4line.
should have played more than Eager, though.
I have no idea how, but is there a way to get hall on the same line as Smyth? I think it'll be a flood when he gets going, but it's not happening right now.
The difference between Hall last year and this year is "expectations". There was none last year but a ton this year. He doesn't seem to be handling it well.
Hemsky, Gagner and MPS. Three talented players that are really struggling to find their role on this team.
Hemsky looks either: a)disinterested or b)playing hurt and in fear of re-injury. Maybe he is 'working out the rust' but I don't think he is playing well AT ALL.
It's been said more than a few times but Gagner has no role on this team and is floundering in a big way. This is getting really disappointing.
(LT: I like your optimism but you really think these two are playing OK and/or coming around??) I'm not seeing it.
MPS is just flat out getting shafted. He has no role and is given no ice-time whatsoever in which to find one. This is driving me wild. Omark and now MPS... Good to hear Tencer is talking about it.
Renney needs to figure these guys out. Otherwise, Tambo is going to have to do something about it.
LT: Hemsky has 5 shots on net all year. He got goosed tonight for the third time in four games since his return. He got two shots in Detroit and they were both Tim Wakefield "fast balls".
Don't know if it's his shoulder, but he's got precious little zip to his game at the moment.
The difference between Hall last year and this year is "expectations". There was none last year...
Hall was the first overall pick. I think it's safe to say there were expectations. Possibly even more so as there was no RNH to deflect the attention. And if I recall, he was squeezing the stick a fair bit until he got that first goal last year.
I think this is the difference between a cerebral player like Eberle or RNH and a more visceral, gut-driven guy like Hall. Not at all a statement on one being necessarily a better player than the other, but I think a player of 4's style is going to be more prone to cold spells when he's not feeling it.
Was going to say something more to the point but my sister just called and informed me I'm about to be an uncle so I've really lost the thread. Did keep my wits about me enough to suggest she name it Ryan though. :)
Glad you can see the holes in 4's game these days as well LT. He's playing a selfish game, and his offensive zone entry decision making has been terrible for a number of games now.
Hall started slow last year too. Iginla starts slow every year.
Next six games should define what direction the Oilers should take.
2 home games to see if they still have it at home. And then the second road trip to see whether there has been any marginal improvement on the road.
If they struggle, then I think you take a step back, and put Nugent-Hopkins with Smyth, and Hall and Eberle with Horcoff, Gagner and Hemsky, and a Belanger checking line and loosen the reins a bit, and what will be will be.
The Oilers also just played 3 teams in 4 nights that could all concievably play in conference finals this year.....and they were the last 3 games of a long 6 game trip.
They're not as good as the first dozen games, but they're probably not this bad either.
Good wake up call for the players and the coaches in case they were feeling good about themselves.
They gotta find a way to get 23 on the roster though, and find a role for 91.
I think Hall is trying to keep up with the new #1 pick, where as RNH is just playing his game, which involves some ridiculous hands. 93 is a pretty remarkable player. Will guess that Hall will have a good next couple games at home.
They're tired. Don't jump on them too much. We lost to the cup champs, the previous cup champs, and the previous previous previous cup champs on the road, in 4 days.
Thought it was strange that Dubnyk didn't play tonight. Could have been the story.
Early in the season some players played well above what can be expected of them over the season - RNH, Khabi, Smyth, Potter and maybe a few others. All of them can be expected to trend towards their expected performance and both Khabi and RNH have. So, poof goes the run for the President's trophy.
However, some players have played below their expected performance, at least in terms of offence. Belanger, Paajarvi, Hall for the last week or so, Gagner, Dubnyk, and Hemsky (still in his 'training camp' period with only 6 games). I think we can expect these players to trend towards expectations as well. So, there goes 30th place and the first pick overall.
At the start of the season, I think reasonable expectations had them around 20th in the league. I think we knew they would be streaky.
Hall tries to carry the puck too much. I know he did it well last year, but with his speed he should be letting RNH lug it up the ice and going straight to the net to open up the ice.
I haven't seen him take a one-timer once this year. He needs to get in better positions to shot, rather than trying to dangle through everyone.
I thought Gagner looked much better in the middle last night. Not a great game but waaaay better than any game he had on the wing.
I think it's clear they need to make a move and bring in Defense. Even if it means moving Hemsky. The smoke and mirrors are losing power.
Petry is complete chaos right now. He's still one of our better defensemen, but he's not up to the task of sheltering a poor partner, and Peckham hasn't been good at all. It's no surprise that the Petry-Potter pairing worked, but leaving Peckham/Barker/Teubert to fend for themselves as a 3rd pairing was a bad idea so they had to split them up.
Even with Petry back in the lineup, This team needs Whitney back in a big way.
itsaleaf said...I haven't seen him take a one-timer once this year. He needs to get in better positions to shot, rather than trying to dangle through everyone.
Missed the Oct, 27 game vs the Caps I guess.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_1dCB9oaGw
And maybe Oct.17 vs the Preds?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpHXRW9_peo
One timers when he gets into position aren't the issue. Doing something other than entering the O zone on the left side in a straight line is.
I might switch him to the right side ala Messier in the haydays. Hall has a good wrister and snapshot just like Mess did and having that wide side to shoot at from the right wing might be just what the doctor ordered.
I feel this team has something special going for it - potentially.
The thing is, most of the time potential gets pissed down the drain in this life(see most family geniuses for reference here).
From what little I know, Glen Sather was a genius when he got that skinny RNH type player back in the day. For one thing, Sather understood that there was more to life than playing hockey - so he'd encourage his young charges to go to art galleries etc in their spare time. Might seem trite, but a lot of these hockey players don't know much about anything other than the rink, and oftentimes the best way to develop oneself is to do something out of the ordinary.
I've always liked Renney, and having seen how quickly he turned the Rangers around I think he's a good man for the job...but just the same, the last few games where the team turned back into pumpkins makes me wonder if there isn't someone better out there.
If you're looking at how to stack lines, you keep in mind line-matching and know that 10 needs either 94 or 83 to anchor a hard-match line.
So you start and go from there. Maybe you go back to 94-10-28 vs toughs, Kids get a free pass and 91-89-83 take on the second toughs. 20 moves in to take faceoffs on the non-10 lines for d zone draws or late-game play.
As for how good this team is, probably not very good against teams with two lines. But they'll murder subpar teams at home when everything rolls.
Dennis said... If you're looking at how to stack lines, you keep in mind line-matching and know that 10 needs either 94 or 83 to anchor a hard-match line.
Along those lines I might shift Hall to RW with 10/94 and drop Hemsky down to play with 93/14. 14 on LW
I think that same picture of Pinder is in my 40 year old Esso NHL Power Players album. Amazing what you can remember.
ReplyDeleteSo what do you do then LT? blender it up? I thought the other night when he changed the lines some chemistry happened, but then Renney went back to old lines and killed momentum. If we are mixing it up, do we try for the whole balanced thing: vet, skilled kid, two way responsible player/grinder.
ReplyDeleteHall-Horcoff-Hemsky
Smyth-RNH-Eberle
MPS-Gagner-Jones
Lander/Eager-Belanger-Petrell
Omark should be up and maybe Lander down, but right now Renney is running with who he trusts. These lines have that "balance", gives us 2 lines who can be trusted in all zone, allows Gagner a chance to be productive, and puts Belanger in a true checking role along with Petrell (who is a solid 4th liner). He doesn't have to protect any of the lines, with the exception of RNH having faceoff issues, but smyth can step in when needed.
line suggestions:
ReplyDeleteHall - Ganger - Hemsky
Smyth - RNH - Eberle
MPS - Horcoff - Omark
Patrell - Belanger - Jones
Well, I'm as crappy as crappy can be with this stuff, but here goes:
ReplyDelete1. Horcoff-Hall-Eberle: It worked a year ago, and the kids should adjust quickly and hopefully find chem.
2. RNH-Smyth-Hemsky: Since 94 has decided to turn back the clock and play enormous minutes, lets give him the future to mentor along with everything else.
3. Gagner-Paajarvi-Omark: I know it bled badly for a long time last season, but thet did improve as the season wore on.
4. Belanger-Jones-Petrell: The 4line has been subpar on the trip and adding Belanger to the group should settle things down.
jmo.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWell I'm not going to say that Ren/Tamb shouldn't do anything to get this team going again, but I will say that mgmt will probably show some restraint when it comes to big changes.
ReplyDeleteWe have two different agendas here: task management and project management. Task mgmt addresses getting some wins, project mgmt is about turning these kids into the best hockey players that they can be and managing this team's assets properly.
Task mgmt would dictate that we bring up O!, shuffle some lines around, and sit Dubnky for a good stretch. Project mgmt would leave O! in OKC for a while longer because if he plays 4 more NHL games, he'll have to pass through waivers going up/down again. PM might also not want to wear out Khabby too soon, keeping him fresh and on top of his game when the trade deadline nears.
It will be interesting to see what happens in the coming weeks, but we have to remember that this team is NOT going to keep winning at a near 0.75 pace, no matter which line combos or AHL callups we use. Still, I'm sure we'll see no end of calls for Tambi's/Renney's head.
1. I'd suck it up for tonight and leave things more or less the same. Once back on home ice the match-ups can be made a bit easier and we'll be back on track.
ReplyDelete2. Hemsky has lost the puck in his own end too much. It seems to die on his stick in the o-zone too much. I used to love the guy, but injuries/inability to make simple play/poor cycle makes me think he should not play with Smyth and Horc. Put Jones back there and figure out a new plan with Hemsky.
And...for what Gags has shown, I'd prefer Omark in and Gags eating popcorn.
ReplyDeletemacaotim: you ned to know what you have with Gagner. BAsically his training camp is now over, so this is like his first game in the regular season. This is a huge year for him in this organization. We need to know if he is the 2nd line centre we need, or if he is trade bait. I think you give him a few weeks with solid linemates and see what he does. If it doesn't work, then you HS him or you package him with a peckham type and add a useful piece.
ReplyDeleteAt this time I'd like to confirm that Pinder's picture is indeed the photo that appeared in the Esso NHL Power Play Album.
ReplyDeleteI had the Esso item too, if that was the one where you got the book and then dropped in each week to get the photos.
ReplyDeleteLoved that book.
Or how about the great colour pictures of star players at the back of the "Star Weekly"??
ReplyDeleteOr what about articles and hockey cards that said "He's the team 'holler guy' like it meant something?"
ReplyDeleteGagner…I always thought the benchmark for an above average player was his ability to elevate the play of his linemates, not to try to find players to make him better.
ReplyDeleteHe needs to show he can be that catalyst to have a future on this team. If I absolutely had to slot him in:
RNH-Hall-Eberle
Horcoff-Smyth-Jones
Gagner-PRV-Hemsky
Belanger-Petrell-Lander
@Macao Tim: Ales Hemsky is a bad, bad man.
ReplyDelete@Clarkenstein: The St. John's Evening Telgram used to have a Weekend magazine on Fridays )no Saturday OR Sunday edition! I used to be a carrier) that featured a colour pic of a hockey star. It was always full height (of both player and page) ~half width of the page, with text running down the other half. Is that what you're talking about with Star Weekly?
Ever since Hemsky's return to the PP, I seem to have noticed the Kid Line spending it's PP time passing the puck endlessly around, just like Ales likes to do.
ReplyDeleteOf course I could simply be insanely biased, having watched hundreds of Hemsky-to Horcoff in the slot passes over the years.
Where's Traktor when you need him?
I knew there was a reason I was upset with Dad we got our gas at Texaco. Like that worked out for everyone.
ReplyDeleteRIP Charlie Lea:
ReplyDeleteSo hemsky's been back a few games now, and we have lost all of them. Not his fault, although in some respects it may be. His return changed the lineup and the chemistry on the bottom 3 lines. The kids were due to fall back a bit on a grueling road trip, so that is no surprise, but the rest of the lines, while not having much chemistry, have done nothing. Maybe it makes more sense to try and get the bottom lines up and running, and leave the top 2 alone.
ReplyDeleteHall-RNH-Eberle
- let them grow as much as possible. They'll come out of it.
Smyth-Horcoff-Jones
- the most chemistry of all of them, and defensively as good as we have.
MPS-Gagner-Hemsky
- basically trying to jump start all of them. This line may have been our top line in July when we thought of the new lineup. A chance to be our top line, and gives Renney an offensive line with some defensive conscience
Lander-Belanger-Petrell
- a true checking line, and a chance to pot a few goals. Renney would trust them like the 2nd line, so it gives him two checking lines and two offensive lines. Only line needing sheltering is the kids, nut they will only get better
not sure if this is the lineup, but copper and blue have this up
ReplyDeleteRyan Smyth - Shawn Horcoff - Ales Hemsky
Magnus Paajarvi - Sam Gagner - Ryan Jones
Taylor Hall - Ryan Nugent-Hopkins - Jordan Eberle
Ben Eager - Eric Belanger - Lennart Petrell
Ladislav Smid - Tom Gilbert
Andy Sutton - Corey Potter
Theo Peckham - Jeff Petry
Nikolai Khabibulin
Last year was about development. This year is about development and winning as many as you lose. The goal isn't winning all the games yet.
ReplyDeleteThe long term goal is to win a Stanley Cup.
The kid line gets play time at home, and hard school work on the road. There is nothing particularly wrong with that. This is their first major road trip. If they don't show slow improvement on their second road trip, well then one perhaps readjusts.
I would give Hemsky his own line. Jones back with Horcoff and Smyth. Paajarvi and Lander with Hemsky. and Petrell and Gagner with Belanger.
Hall, Nugent-Hopkins, Eberle
Smyth, Horcoff, Jones
Paajarvi, Lander, Hemsky
Petrell, Belanger, Gagner
Let's see if Hemsky can become a mentor.
The Hawks? This is the road trip from hell. When do we play Columbus?
ReplyDeleteI like these lines:
Moreau 2.0 -RNH-MPS
Smyth-Horcoff-Eberle
Omark-Belanger-Hemsky
Jones-Gagner-Petrell
I don't think people who want to move Belanger down have properly evaluated how important he has been to the team's defense. IMO.
The way I see it, Horcoff and Belanger have been great defensively and this has made life a whole lot easier for our crappy defensemen.
I like Gagner's offense but if we're throwing Gagner and RNH out at most of the game at C, with our crappy D, we're going to get killed by the other team's offense. IMO.
But then again, I'm not against giving Gagner a shot to see if he can play C better than Belanger right now. But, Belanger is a pretty good C.
Well if we're coming off the road, the time to mess with the lines is tonight. We know the lines work reasonably well at home (yes I know the 3rd can't score anywhere), so what's the point of messing with success there?
ReplyDelete(of course something will need to be done long term but the laboratory is available now for testing, not next game)
And of course the Hawks are one of those teams with 3 strong solid centres, so our lack of experienced depth is gonna stick out like Tbars at the mall... You know you should avert your eyes but you never do.
89 has about 10 days until I start to worry about him, but I haven't seen much for progress yet. He missed the net by alot on 3 good SC the other night. I know his shot isn't his best asset, but for a guy who's expected to produce offense at least hit the net.
ReplyDeleteHe seems to be stationary alot when he gets the puck which is never a good thing for a guy who isn't real quick on his feet.
His PP work has shown some flashes, but he has forced some low percentage plays into traffic.
He's got time yet, but if his level of play remains stagnant (especially on the PP) and there are no injuries in the top 6 Renney is going to start to wonder where he fits.
The good news is he has established a previous level of play much higher than this and he's a smart cookie so I fully expect him to pot 2 tonight ;)
It has become fairly clear that different lines for home vs. road are necessary for a while. Also, our D couldn't fake it til they made it (or Whitney returned). Both of these things could be easily corrected without compromising "the future".
ReplyDeleteRNH-Hall-Eberle
ReplyDeleteHorcoff-Smyth-Jones
Gagner-PRV-Hemsky
Belanger-Petrell-Lander
I like these too.
You have to spread out the opposition's top 2 pairs across 3 lines to get your scoring lines any kind of soft ice on the road.
Look at the D match ups in the last two games: (total ice time, so special teams times skew things) when the opposition doesn't have to worry about the 3rd line:
Hopkins vs:
Kronwall 9.9m
Stuart 7.6m
Lidstrom 2.3m
White 2.7m
Kindl 2.2m
Ericsson 2.3m
Hemsky vs:
Kronwall 3.3m
Stuart 3.8m
Lidstrom 8.7m
White 8.9m
Kindl 0.5m
Ericsson 1.8m
Gagner vs:
Kronwall 3.0m
Stuart 0.4m
Lidstrom 1.8m
White 1.4m
Kindl 5.9m
Ericsson 5.9m
Lets's look at the same for the Boston game:
Hopkins vs:
Chara 5.5m
Boychcuk 1.7m
Corvo 6.6m
Seidenberg 6.7m
Ferrence 1.6m
McQuaid 5.5m
Hemsky vs:
Chara 10.9
Boychcuk 11.7
Corvo 1.3m
Seidenberg 2.9m
Ferrence 0m
McQuaid 0.6
Gagner vs:
Chara 1.8m
Boychcuk 1.1m
Corvo 4.8m
Seidenberg 4.4m
Ferrence 2.9m
McQuaid 4.2
So when Gagner's line is on the ice, both BOS and DET where considering it a free ride, not to even mention the 4th.
94-10-28 had results against the tough forwards.
If you run the lines as stated above, that gives the Oilers 3 lines with fire power, so there will be some significant 3rd pairing minutes against one of the first 3 lines, probably 10's line.
94-10-28 has shown they can cycle well and get chances off the cycle, if they see 3rd pairing behind the best forwards, then that is a very favorable result.
As it stands, you don't have to worry about the 3rd line.
Also,
Tonight's lines look like:
4-93-14
94-10-83
91-89-28
55-20-37
Good.
Close to what I like. I don't think 28 is a good fit with 89, but that line will get some uber-soft minutes, they better make hay.
Well dammit Charlie Lea. Threw a no no in the season of dreams. and Mondays.
ReplyDeleteChicago is running Keith and Seabrook together most of the time these days.
ReplyDeleteThe other pairings are:
Hjalmarsson - Leddy
Scott/Olesz - Montador
Interesting that they are running Olesz out as a Dman to relieve Scott from time to time.
I like Hjalmarsson and Leddy enough, but they aren't as good as DET or BOS 2nd pairs, there might be some scoring tonight.
Jeez i'd forgotten about Charlie's 1984 body of work:
ReplyDeleteGS: 30
W: 15
L: 10
ERA: 2.89
CG: 8(!)
SO: 123
BB: 68
there might be some scoring tonight
ReplyDeleteDon't be silly.
WG
ReplyDeleteWell since we know Eberle can play anywhere, and it has come out that Paajarvi has had some experience at RW, I'd be tempted to flip them. Get Magnus on his off wing, looking for the back door passes, and he likes to cross over coming into the zone. Hemmer crosses over at will too... I've always thought he should play LW like he did at the Worlds way back on Jagr's line:
HALL HORC EBER
SMYT NUGE JONE
HEMS GAGN PAAJ
LAND BELA PETR
I would be okay with this wing flip too:
HALL NUGE PAAJ
SMYT HORC GAGN
EBER BELA HEMS
PETR LAND JONE
Either way, with Hemsky and another speedy winger on the 3rd, the 3rd line centre can totally cheat for D and let the wingers go create havoc.
Olesz on D, hmm. Interesting. Budreau played Laich 20+ minuted on D last night and the results were quite positive. Byfuglian is a similar example.
ReplyDeleteGood way to get some extra forwards in the lineup that otherwise may be a HS, especially if your bottom D pair is iffy and you plan on playing a forward at D on the PP anyway..
What Oiler forwards would you play on D?
As mentioned before on here, 91 would be intresting at D - I'd like to see him wind it up from his own end.
91 could play D. I imagine Belanger could as well.
ReplyDeleteLaich is a hell of a player. Really wish we would have got a chance to sign him in the offseason.
spOILer,
ReplyDeleteI don't think you break up 94-10. They've have done fantastic work against the other teams toughs.
I think getting 83 off that line isn't just good for spreading the offense, but helps the defence.
83 plays a high event game, and turn overs in bad spots is the price you pay for his scoring chances.
Turn overs against the oppositions best scoring line (playing with 94-10) will hurt more in the long run than playing with X-89, where they are more likely to see a checking line.
I don't mind 20 moving down to the 4th line. His line and 89's will probably have similar ice time, and 20 can spell off a winger and come in for D-zone draws like 10 did for the 3 years the Oilers only had 1 C who could take a draw.
89 is also better then 57 on draws, so you aren't losing much in those terms.
@ Bruce... you're right! It was the "Weekend Magazine". Thanks...best pictures ever up until that time weren't they?
ReplyDeleteGame day notes from the Oilers..here.
ReplyDelete- According to the coach, No. 55 will play for sure, but the player in which he'll replace is still up in the air.
It's expected that Anton Lander will be the odd-man out.
- Oilers defenseman Cam Barker is expected to miss Sunday's game with an ankle injury, and Ryan Whitney is out for three weeks after suffering a sprained right knee in late October.
I think I still have a bunch of the little Esso cards they used to give out. I remember trying to pick them off of the ground by the pumps and my parents telling me to leave them there as they were full of dirt and gas and snow. But they were right there! How could someone just drop them on the ground like that! Good times.
ReplyDeleteI'd hate to take Belanger off of faceoffs.
ReplyDeleteI can't see Renney sitting both Barker and Peckham (most of the traffic on this site would be fine with it), but putting 91 on D with Sutton would be a way to get Omark back in.
The lineup is getting smaller and less physical the more I type so I can't see Renney doing it anyway.
This is Tencer and Stauffers lineup predictions...
ReplyDeleteHall-Nugent-Hopkins-Hemsky
Smyth-Horcoff-Eberle
Paajarvi-Gagner-Jones
Eager-Belanger-Petrell
Smid-Gilbert
Sutton-Potter
Peckham-Petry
That seems pretty sensible.
Worth a shot. Getting 89 back to his natural position should be an improvement.
ReplyDeleteThat D - it's so funny, they're starting to show cracks, but If you saw that D lineup for opening night most fans would immediately start looking to the 2012 draft.
Harry Potter - what a find
Gilbert, Smid - both playing the best defensive hockey of their careers
Petry - Coming along nicely
Sutton - Good on PK, passable at evens.
For today's lines, I'd look at something like:
ReplyDeleteHall-Horcoff-Hemsky
Smyth-RNH-Eberle
Paajarvi-Gagner-Jones
Lander-Belanger-Petrell
For Thursday, with practice time, I might look at something more drastic like:
Hall-Gagner-Hemsky
Smyth-RNH-Omark
Paajarvi-Horcoff-Eberle
Jones/Petrell-Belanger-Petrell/Jones
OT (for tonight's game):
ReplyDeleteAnyone have thoughts on the potential impact of the Rielly and Galchenyuk ACL injuries? Assuming the Oilers end up picking in the 6th-14th range, maybe those injuries help the Oilers get a player who would otherwise have gone before they pick?
Obviously it's gonig to depend how their recoveries go, etc, a lot of other factors, but it'll be interesting to see where those players might go, like Cowen and Connolly the last couple of years.
Too bad about Charlie Lea, would have a good feeling when I turned the game on CBC and he was the starter.
ReplyDeletespOILer, I noticed that about PRV as well. Ge usually is on the right side when he makes that "power" move to the net. That might work. He also needs to learn to cut harder to the front and not get pushed behind the net by the Dman.
ReplyDeletenot Ge but rather He.
ReplyDeleteIf you're not watching the MTL/HAM game, now is a good time to turn it on. 44-44 with a 1:30 left.
ReplyDeleteErr..Down to 36 seconds.
ReplyDeleteHAM with a horrible sequence there. They don't deserve to win what is maybe the best freaking game I've seen in 5 years. Lordy.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteUnbelievable game. I thought Glenn was done for the game.
ReplyDeleteClassic. Brilliant, brilliant football game.
ReplyDeleteThe third line has been the Achilles heel for this team--not the goalies or defense (except Teddy) as most were prognosticating. The third line (and any combination thereof) has been brutally soft, and generally lost in transition--(translation?!). While this road trip has highlighted a variety of weaknesses, a lot of it is due to relatively easy line-matching by opposing coaches who know the third line is soft--even with one of the best face-off men in the league.
ReplyDeleteSpeeds' suggestion for a Thursday practice line-up looks very appealing. Another possibility is the exchange of Harski for PRV, which would allow PRV to get some confidence on the farm.
speeds: It could, I haven't followed the injuries and am not sure of their severity/long term implications.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, I'd bet money they draft Griffin Reinhart.
They should certainly have as good a read into Reinhart's background and character as they could hope for, in any event.
ReplyDeleteHe appears to be in the range, I certainly wouldn't be shocked if he were EDM's pick depending, of course, on how the year goes for both him and the Oilers.
I think Reinhart goes top 5-7. If he's there when they pick its a no brainer.
ReplyDeleteGabe tweeted today that MIN and EDM are tied for last in the league for Fenwick when the score is tied.
Not a good thing.
Do you guys think Reinhart brings enough offense, to take that early?
ReplyDeleteI haven't really followed the Oil Kings this year. His numbers aren't great, but given the D depth with the Oil Kings I wouldn't be too surprised if he isn't getting a ton of PP time.
Do you guys think Reinhart brings enough offense, to take that early?
ReplyDeleteI'm getting his slotting from others, I think I heard it on the Pipeline show that he's considered top 2-3 Dman in the draft.
At this point anyhow.
I expect a lot of break aways. The Oilers system has been figured out there's tons of room in the middle of the ice.
ReplyDeleteUnless Renney has done some work with their forecheck, I expect some wide open guys spliting the d in this game.
I still like how the Oilers are playing if you look at the team we just played they're tourching everyone not just the Oilers.
We have run into a few hot teams on this road trip. I'm hoping for a good game.
I wouldn't draft Reinhart in the top 20, but expect the Oilers would. I think Dumba will be a very dynamic player but the Oilers will go for the guy with more defense.
ReplyDeleteMy feeling is that Renney has made the zone start umbrella a little too big on the road. You have to give RNH favourable zone starts, but then if you build a line with Hall/RNH/Eberle, you turn into a two line team, which WG and others have pointed out is a recipe for giving the opponent's third defensive pair a free ride.
ReplyDeleteI think Hall and Eberle have the tools (physical and mental) to saw off defensive zone starts except against the other team's danger unit. Horc and Smyth are the guys to skate uphill against live rounds.
My Mendoza line for keeping Hemmer is whether he's willing to adjust his game plan to play effectively with RNH. The need to learn how to terrorize the opposition with instant one-touch give and goes for two periods, and after the opposition becomes a twitchy mess then Hemmer can explode some guy's jockstrap who is three feet out of position late in the game.
However I dress it up, what I'm looking for from Hemmer is the ability to adopt more than one combat profile, and the savvy to switch it up as game circumstance dictates.
If I had three one way mind-melds to dish out, it would be something like:
Smyth to MPS
Eberle to Hemsky
Horcoff to Lander
DMW: Excellent point on the zs road ratio. Hadn't thought of it that way.
ReplyDeleteI brought up the idea a few days ago about using different lines at home and on the road and good to see the idea picking up steam.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Staples can "borrow" this one as well;)
All that being said, I think this is a novel idea and I don't remember any teams being dedicated to using different line combos depending upon the city. So, I'm not sure how feasible this would be.
I think Speeds had the best set of lines in terms of spreading vets around and creating three lines that could score but I don't know if two of them could play PVP.
The Oiler as constructed when they left rexall would be fine at home; though a lot of pressure on the kids when you play a team with two good lines and we only need look back at the games vs Van and Wsh to see what can happen.
The third line being a fucking sinkhole is just as big a problem as the kids birth certificates, IMO. 91-89 are shitting the bed - along with 20 - in terms of teams not even caring enough about them to match and yet they do nothing.
We're getting to the point where - in the cases of 20-91 - it's becoming a significant sample size.
Right now the 10 isn't able to have an off-game and we'll still compete. So, obviously, all things should be tried in order to achieve balance.
I'd suggest iRenew bracelets but I imagine Kevin Lowe has already thought of that.
Turned on 630 Ched when I got in the truck and I think Bob said 57 is out and had:
ReplyDelete94-10-14
As one line.
Not sure of the rest.
If the above iis true, then I'd guess 4 & 83 are together, not sure if he's slot 89 or 93 there.
Leaves:
91-93/89-28
55-20-37
Gino with the update:
ReplyDeleteHALL NUGE HEMS
SMYT HORC EBER
PAAJ GAGN ______
Off the pregame show.
Jones is the third RW, and 4line is Belanger-Eager-Petrell. Looks solid, plus the D appear to be more logical, providing they shorten the third pair minutes.
ReplyDeleteStill waiting to hear on the other winger, but I'm assuming Jones...
ReplyDeleteAccording to Prinicpe 83 plays with 4 and 93.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I don't mind seeing this for a game, and agreed on the D.
ReplyDeleteWhat was the last line the Oilers iced that had more offensive talent than "Hall-RNH-Hemsky"?
ReplyDeleteNothing during the cup run. Not sure Weight ever had a line that offensively gifted. (Some lines he was on or Horcoff has been on may have been more effective at both ends of the ice.)
I think Speeds had the best set of lines in terms of spreading vets around and creating three lines that could score but I don't know if two of them could play PVP.
ReplyDeleteYou have to start with the assumption that 10 is getting 30% Ozone starts and go from there.
That makes 94 and 10 joined at the hip for the year, imo.
God I hope Paajamas and Samwise can find some lightning in a bottle deep in the heart of Mordor.
ReplyDeleteAfter Toews is done having his way with us that is.
This is already looking like it's gonna be one of those Sunday morning no hit affairs. Best Church behavior.
ReplyDeleteCornnish is good but Reynolds has been an absolute Eskimos Killer in the past. Loving that he's on the sidelines.
ReplyDeleteHope Messam can keep going.
Toews with his 3rd goal of the period.
ReplyDeleteEwhat?
Here we go again!! Jeebus H. Cheerist!!
ReplyDeleteI miss the old lines
ReplyDeletePylon hockey, my favourite.
ReplyDeleteAnd Renney calls a time out to remind the team this isn't figure skating.
How can you go on the road and stop moving your damn feet??? Same shit different day
ReplyDelete//What was the last line the Oilers iced that had more offensive talent than "Hall-RNH-Hemsky"?//
ReplyDeleteDoesn't matter if Hemsky doesn't share the puck, and goes mano-a-mano on the defenseman all night like he usually does.
Doesn't matter if Hemsky holds the puck for the extra half second like he always does rather than making quick touch passes.
Who can I blame?
ReplyDeleteAfter Detroit, the cat won't come near me.
Maybe the Eskies can play some D...
ReplyDeleteHunter, did you fuck your cat again?
ReplyDelete58 and 37 doing pylon impressions and boom! Its 2-0.
ReplyDeleteNot sure if 24 crossing over and chasing the puck into his opposiote corner confused 58, but he never marked his man after the switch.
This game will have some goals, the Oilers won't lay down yet.
They just need to make more than 2 passes in a row to get going. Heh.
Sorry, that was gross/lewd.
ReplyDeleteHall needs to hit the brakes every occasional mad dash and let that defenseman skating with every ounce of desperate speed overrun the play.
ReplyDeleteAnd it would be nice if Hall could throw one of those big hits early, rather than waiting for the 3rd period.
ReplyDeleteHunter,
ReplyDeleteBlame Katz. Get it, "Kats."
I wish this was a team of all 94's
ReplyDeleteWhat a beauty
Smyth, Captain of the Undead, conjures more sorcery.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if Washington would trade us Ovechkin for Smyth or if we should just hold out for Crosby.
ReplyDeleteSmyth is keeping us from Nail Yakupov.
ReplyDeleteWell Smyth and Scott Howson.
ReplyDeleteEskies put it away. Finally.
ReplyDeleteIts official, Ryan Smyth hates the Oilers.
ReplyDeleteHe asked to be traded back so he could do everything in his power to ensure the rebuild does not get that final piece at the draft this summer.
What a jerk.
I didn't think the Eskimos would win today, glad they did. Stamps QB situation did them in, imo. Burris had one of the craziest seasons in CFL history.
ReplyDeleteEven without twitter.
That was a good looking PK till the giveaway behind the net.
ReplyDeletePeckham, buddy..What's happenin'.
ReplyDeleteBoooooo!
ReplyDeletePeckham should sit and eat popcorn with the other fans... he just watches the game... doesn't touch a fucking soul!!
ReplyDeleteI think he Teddy has Homer Simpson in his brain. "Shoe goes on, shoe goes off."
ReplyDeleteEverytime we've gotten the puck to the crease, it's looked dangerous, got to be persistent and careful.
ReplyDeleteI was flipping between games, but one positive (from what I saw) was that Gagner looks better tonight.
ReplyDeletespeeds: I would agree, but his line was on for the first GA (imo it was more Petry not reading it) so I don't know how long they have as a trio.
ReplyDelete3-1 is gross but this is far from over.
ReplyDeleteCHI is 19th in the league for GA/gm and they don't look great in their own zone tonight.
I find myself wishing Barker was in instead of Peckha.....lordy.
When does Whitney get over the plague?
The D is getting exposed against these guys.
I think Dennis is right about Whitney. When he gets over the plague, they've got a bus waiting to drive him over.
ReplyDeleteGagner currently 8 points behind the real Wellwood.
ReplyDeleteAgree with WG.
ReplyDeleteThe Oilers need to get some more PP opportunities, in general, too.
Cogliano.
ReplyDeleteWhitney I hear was almost ready, until his Band Aid got wet.
ReplyDeleteAdded another two weeks to his return, I'm afraid.
I find myself wishing you were behind the real Traktor.
ReplyDeletekris: Gagner is behind Cogliano too.
ReplyDeleteDon't worry about Whitney, because Gilbert Brule's doctor has taken personal charge of the case.
ReplyDeleteIs it safe to say Khabibulin's run is over??
ReplyDeleteNice giveaway Gilbert
Oy.
ReplyDeleteGive Schremp a chance.
ReplyDeleteCool LT. Doesn't change the fact that Gagner is well on his way to failing to meet your reasonable expectations for the 4th year in a row.
ReplyDeletePerhaps he was never that good.
Shooting Percentage. Corsi sucks. Horcoff contract... trolling malfunction... does not compute.
ReplyDeleteTraktor: Here's the thing. You come around when things aren't going well, and I understand that this is a good night for you so far.
ReplyDeleteHowever, you're not really adding to the conversation.
Since everyone's feeling terrible right now about Taylor Hall, I'd like to tell you all about another former top draft pick named Greg Joly.
ReplyDeleteSeems like Joly only had one move that had gotten him through juniors, so after a pretty decent NHL rookie season the rest of the league learned how to shut him down and he busted.
Jesus.
ReplyDeleteGlad I put 10u on the over (got +120 5.5 too, lolz)
Not going to bitch about 5 and 77 too much after everything they've done this year, but someone needs to take Toews there.
Eberle with bad penalty #2.
ReplyDeleteThis road trip can't end fast enough.
hunter: that's not even close to true. Joly was drafted by the Caps after an exceptional run through 74's WHL season and the Mem cup.
ReplyDeleteAt that point in time, he would have been wildly overrated. Hell Clark Gillives was on his team and WAS took him beforehand.
Joly was the perfect storm, and Washington did a poor job drafting. He was never worthy of the title.
Eberle is the anti-Marchant on the breakaway.
ReplyDeleteSeabrooke smided hismelf right into the boards there.
ReplyDeleteLol...ebs. Nice.
ReplyDeleteOn that goal, I think Gilbert saw that Khabi touched the puck in the penalty area, so when he touched the puck he was expecting a penalty call.
ReplyDeleteBad news all over the ice.
ReplyDeleteMight be time to pine NK this game
ReplyDeleteRenney seems to be as bad as anyone about not pulling the goalie. Mistake. #35 is way off.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Khabi is "dehydrated" again.
ReplyDeleteFor a veteran player, Belanger has no idea what to do when he has the puck.
ReplyDeleteHe sure doesn't look like a 40 point player
Can anyone tell me why Belanger is on the PP? (winning the faceoff notwithstanding)
ReplyDeleteWasn't happy with Kane muscling Paajarvi off the puck at the left post, but he drew a penalty any way, not that the result looked like a PP.
ReplyDeleteAs said earlier on this broadcast, 1 PP goal on this road trip. That drought is as much to blame as the line depth for the lack of recent success.
Greg Joly was a defenseman. Why would the possession or elimination of a single offensive move derail his career?
ReplyDeleteGilbert was exepcting icing there. Twice burned byt the refs this game.
ReplyDeleteRenney has 83 with 89 now, nice to see. Somehow 28 doesn't seem like a natural LW there.
ReplyDelete91 with 4 and 93.
Good game to try new lines, got half a game to watch them.
Cornet with 2 more goals tonight, Plante 2A, Barons down 3-2 with under 2 min to go.
ReplyDeleteHemsky doesn't share the puck much. The left wing doesn't matter.
ReplyDeleteCornet with his 9th and 10th tonight in OKC. I keep thinking Omark or Hartikainen might get the call when Lander is sent down, but maybe the kid from the Q makes it.
ReplyDeleteSmyth was at the rink early, filing down the bottom of the goal posts
ReplyDeleteBtw, Carlyle had seen enough of Cogliano at center, he's now playing wing with Selanne and Koivu.
ReplyDeleteThat puck was in before the whistle.
What percentage of our PP minutes has Belanger been given tonite?
ReplyDeleteGodot,
ReplyDeleteBut Jones is an octaganal peg, he should work there.
Cogliano has more points than Crosby.
ReplyDeleteCornet looked head and shoulders above most everyone else at the Young Stars game. I put it down to his age, but it's starting to look like he might be the real deal (at the A level anyway).
ReplyDeleteI'm really looking forward to the 3rd.
ReplyDelete3 offensivish lines, a mediocre defensive D missing their best player in Seabrook.
This isn't over.
The Oilers just need to get the break out going, the forwards are cheating too much, need to go back to 3 passes on the way out of the Dzone.
Horcoff making like Phil Esposito.
ReplyDeleteRemember what they say about a 2 goal lead, kids.
Remember what they say about a 2 goal lead, kids.
ReplyDeleteIt was a 2 goal lead after 1, and CHI followed up with a goal 22 secs into the 2nd
i told myself at the outset of the season that i'd be happy with any game the Oilers scored 3 or more goals, regardless of the damage done the other way.
ReplyDeleteso i'm happy with this, i suppose.
By my eye, Sutton and Barker are slow and get beat fairly often. But Peckham gets beat as often, and Peckham is worse with the puck, and Peckham is worse positionally.
ReplyDeleteDo others agree? Or is Peckham better than the other two pylons.
Re Oilers last few game collapse:
ReplyDeleteKind of reminds me of the time I bought that gold Rolex off those Spaniards, while on holiday.
Dammit, 83 back with 4 and 93.
ReplyDeleteDying to see 3 scoring lines.
I really thought Belangers tendancy to pass the puck to no one was just something that happens every now and then. I've seen him do it three times this game.
ReplyDeleteBut damn, is he ever good at faceoffs.
Peckham has some skills, but clearly forgot how to use them. Also, has poor hockey sense.
ReplyDeleteI was not expecting Khabi's GAA to fall by a passable batting average over the span of two games.
ReplyDeleteDid anyone catch Groundhog Day: Resurrection by Michael Bay? I had a sudden flashback reading this thread.
At this point Teddy Peckman is literally a house by the side of the road. Too bad, I like his play.
ReplyDeleteBut they can't carry him much longer imo.
Can't make a pass even if it was at a half-naked, fully horny, Candace Swaenpool.
ReplyDeleteAnd that was as bogus as penalties get.
WTF, Hall was busy taping his stick on the bench or what? He should be on the ice before NK has hit the blueline. That looked bad.
ReplyDeleteChicago is freaking good on the O.
hmmm. maybe hockey is boring.
ReplyDeleteBeam me up Scotty.
ReplyDeleteI thought the Oilers could make a game of it in the 3rd, but they totally shit the bed.
ReplyDeleteNo one looked good.
This team needs some practice, good thing they hjave 3 days off.
Home for 2, then on the road for two sets of back-to-back on the road.
They will be lucky to be over .500 by the end of that 4 game trip.
5 and 77 looked disjointed and tired all night.
ReplyDeleteThis team needs for than one top pair and a herd of 3rd pairing guys.
I thought the Oilers could have scored 1 or 2 more in the 1st and 2nd so this could have been more interesting - so not all bad.
ReplyDeleteChicago is scary good in the O-zone. Needed Whitney in and Peckham out for this game to be a fair fight.
Hawks have passed the Red Wings in my books as the best passing team in the league.
Taylor Hall is not in a good place.
ReplyDeleteHockey wise.
ReplyDeleteUntil that game blowing gaffe, I thought 4 looked the "best" he has in a few games.
ReplyDeleteHe made a nice play early, a beauty. But if we compare his chances, how he's carrying the puck and his confidence level I don't think he's close to where he was this time a year ago.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mc79hockey.com/?p=3982
ReplyDeleteProbably going to need 2 top pairing D. Can't count on Whitney at all. The scary part is that if Gilbert or Smid go down we'll be crafting nooses faster than Blue Jackets fans.
ReplyDeleteGagner, Belanger, Hemsky, Paajarvi have played a combined 59 games, and ZERO goals....puzzling to say the least.
ReplyDeleteHemsky has been fine imo, and I think Gagner has been looking better--although inconsistent.
ReplyDeletePaajarvi may need some time on the farm and Belanger is likely better off on the 4line for awhile.
I don't think too many of us can be surprised that the team went 2-4 on the roadswing, though.
Some good teams, and I don't think they had anyone on a down note. Maybe Montreal, I don't know if they're just bad or they were having an off night.
Wow, Tencer going off on how 91 is getting shafted...wow.
ReplyDeleteLT,
ReplyDeleteHall is not where he was at last year, that's a fact.
In all honesty I think he's been garbage this year. I don't think he's a garbage player but holy moly has he ever done sweet F.A. so far. I'm looking forward to him pulling out of it. I thought this game was looking like an improvement, till you know, he blew it so hard. Not a good place.
Jake70,
ReplyDeleteHey pal,
I didn't catch Tencer, but I think I agree with that sentiment a little.
Light, Sweet, Crude,
ReplyDeleteYeah, Tencer said 91 played the least minutes of any player tonight.
Paajarvi gets no special teams time, so he'd be behind Petrell and Belagner on the 4line.
ReplyDeleteshould have played more than Eager, though.
I have no idea how, but is there a way to get hall on the same line as Smyth? I think it'll be a flood when he gets going, but it's not happening right now.
The difference between Hall last year and this year is "expectations". There was none last year but a ton this year. He doesn't seem to be handling it well.
ReplyDeleteHemsky, Gagner and MPS. Three talented players that are really struggling to find their role on this team.
ReplyDeleteHemsky looks either: a)disinterested or
b)playing hurt and in fear of re-injury.
Maybe he is 'working out the rust' but I don't think he is playing well AT ALL.
It's been said more than a few times but Gagner has no role on this team and is floundering in a big way. This is getting really disappointing.
(LT: I like your optimism but you really think these two are playing OK and/or coming around??) I'm not seeing it.
MPS is just flat out getting shafted. He has no role and is given no ice-time whatsoever in which to find one. This is driving me wild. Omark and now MPS... Good to hear Tencer is talking about it.
Renney needs to figure these guys out. Otherwise, Tambo is going to have to do something about it.
Is three scoring lines that ridiculous an idea??
LT: Hemsky has 5 shots on net all year. He got goosed tonight for the third time in four games since his return. He got two shots in Detroit and they were both Tim Wakefield "fast balls".
ReplyDeleteDon't know if it's his shoulder, but he's got precious little zip to his game at the moment.
I guess he's just a bad, bad man after all.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe difference between Hall last year and this year is "expectations". There was none last year...
ReplyDeleteHall was the first overall pick. I think it's safe to say there were expectations. Possibly even more so as there was no RNH to deflect the attention. And if I recall, he was squeezing the stick a fair bit until he got that first goal last year.
I think this is the difference between a cerebral player like Eberle or RNH and a more visceral, gut-driven guy like Hall. Not at all a statement on one being necessarily a better player than the other, but I think a player of 4's style is going to be more prone to cold spells when he's not feeling it.
Was going to say something more to the point but my sister just called and informed me I'm about to be an uncle so I've really lost the thread. Did keep my wits about me enough to suggest she name it Ryan though. :)
Glad you can see the holes in 4's game these days as well LT. He's playing a selfish game, and his offensive zone entry decision making has been terrible for a number of games now.
ReplyDeleteHe's gotta get things together.
Hall started slow last year too. Iginla starts slow every year.
ReplyDeleteNext six games should define what direction the Oilers should take.
2 home games to see if they still have it at home. And then the second road trip to see whether there has been any marginal improvement on the road.
If they struggle, then I think you take a step back, and put Nugent-Hopkins with Smyth, and Hall and Eberle with Horcoff, Gagner and Hemsky, and a Belanger checking line and loosen the reins a bit, and what will be will be.
The Oilers also just played 3 teams in 4 nights that could all concievably play in conference finals this year.....and they were the last 3 games of a long 6 game trip.
ReplyDeleteThey're not as good as the first dozen games, but they're probably not this bad either.
Good wake up call for the players and the coaches in case they were feeling good about themselves.
They gotta find a way to get 23 on the roster though, and find a role for 91.
I think Hall is trying to keep up with the new #1 pick, where as RNH is just playing his game, which involves some ridiculous hands. 93 is a pretty remarkable player. Will guess that Hall will have a good next couple games at home.
ReplyDeleteThey're tired. Don't jump on them too much. We lost to the cup champs, the previous cup champs, and the previous previous previous cup champs on the road, in 4 days.
Thought it was strange that Dubnyk didn't play tonight. Could have been the story.
I think Hemsky's shoulder is F'd again. The shots he's actually taken have been weaker than Smid's.
ReplyDeleteIf it's his shoulder again I'd suggest treating him like a horse with a broken leg.
Early in the season some players played well above what can be expected of them over the season - RNH, Khabi, Smyth, Potter and maybe a few others. All of them can be expected to trend towards their expected performance and both Khabi and RNH have. So, poof goes the run for the President's trophy.
ReplyDeleteHowever, some players have played below their expected performance, at least in terms of offence. Belanger, Paajarvi, Hall for the last week or so, Gagner, Dubnyk, and Hemsky (still in his 'training camp' period with only 6 games). I think we can expect these players to trend towards expectations as well. So, there goes 30th place and the first pick overall.
At the start of the season, I think reasonable expectations had them around 20th in the league. I think we knew they would be streaky.
Well, it looks to me like they are on track.
Hall tries to carry the puck too much. I know he did it well last year, but with his speed he should be letting RNH lug it up the ice and going straight to the net to open up the ice.
ReplyDeleteI haven't seen him take a one-timer once this year. He needs to get in better positions to shot, rather than trying to dangle through everyone.
I thought Gagner looked much better in the middle last night. Not a great game but waaaay better than any game he had on the wing.
I think it's clear they need to make a move and bring in Defense. Even if it means moving Hemsky. The smoke and mirrors are losing power.
Petry is complete chaos right now. He's still one of our better defensemen, but he's not up to the task of sheltering a poor partner, and Peckham hasn't been good at all. It's no surprise that the Petry-Potter pairing worked, but leaving Peckham/Barker/Teubert to fend for themselves as a 3rd pairing was a bad idea so they had to split them up.
ReplyDeleteEven with Petry back in the lineup, This team needs Whitney back in a big way.
itsaleaf said...I haven't seen him take a one-timer once this year. He needs to get in better positions to shot, rather than trying to dangle through everyone.
ReplyDeleteMissed the Oct, 27 game vs the Caps I guess.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_1dCB9oaGw
And maybe Oct.17 vs the Preds?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpHXRW9_peo
One timers when he gets into position aren't the issue. Doing something other than entering the O zone on the left side in a straight line is.
I might switch him to the right side ala Messier in the haydays. Hall has a good wrister and snapshot just like Mess did and having that wide side to shoot at from the right wing might be just what the doctor ordered.
I feel this team has something special going for it - potentially.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, most of the time potential gets pissed down the drain in this life(see most family geniuses for reference here).
From what little I know, Glen Sather was a genius when he got that skinny RNH type player back in the day. For one thing, Sather understood that there was more to life than playing hockey - so he'd encourage his young charges to go to art galleries etc in their spare time. Might seem trite, but a lot of these hockey players don't know much about anything other than the rink, and oftentimes the best way to develop oneself is to do something out of the ordinary.
I've always liked Renney, and having seen how quickly he turned the Rangers around I think he's a good man for the job...but just the same, the last few games where the team turned back into pumpkins makes me wonder if there isn't someone better out there.
If you're looking at how to stack lines, you keep in mind line-matching and know that 10 needs either 94 or 83 to anchor a hard-match line.
ReplyDeleteSo you start and go from there. Maybe you go back to 94-10-28 vs toughs, Kids get a free pass and 91-89-83 take on the second toughs. 20 moves in to take faceoffs on the non-10 lines for d zone draws or late-game play.
As for how good this team is, probably not very good against teams with two lines. But they'll murder subpar teams at home when everything rolls.
Dennis said...
ReplyDeleteIf you're looking at how to stack lines, you keep in mind line-matching and know that 10 needs either 94 or 83 to anchor a hard-match line.
Along those lines I might shift Hall to RW with 10/94 and drop Hemsky down to play with 93/14. 14 on LW