Winter 2011: #5
Summer 2011: #7
Winter 2010: #4
Summer 2010: #9
Martin Marincin is a dirty bugger. This isn't ordinarily celebrated on this blog, but it's part of his resume and so I wanted to discuss it. Marincin's famous WJ hit on the American Zucker was followed by another "incident" this fall in the WHL.
That's a filty hit, folks. Dangerous. Marincin's "range of skills" are the calling card here, and those skills are so difficult to acquire I believe Marincin is clearly a better prospect than the offensive defenders (Blain, Davidson, Gernat) and the defensive defenders (Teubert, Bigos, Musil).
I'm saying he could lose a lot of his offense (by not playing on the PP) and still make the NHL as a useful player. And if he delivers on all fronts, he might end up being the best, most complete defenseman drafted into the system since Jeff Petry.
--
There are by my count 6 strong candidates for this slot, so don't be too upset if your player isn't here. I do have my reasons for posting Marincin here and will list them, but the entire top 10 this winter is excellent.
- He has a wide range of skills.
- He is playing for a very poor hockey team. Last I checked, Marincin was +2 on a team that is -12 overall. His number is the best on the team among defenders.
- Prince George coach Dean Clark: “You know who he reminds me of is when Alexander Edler came into our league with Kelowna. I think he’s better than Alexander was with Kelowna and look what Alexander turned into in the NHL."
- He has been described as a man among boys at times this season, although the boxcars aren't as impressive as one year ago.
- 2010-11: 67, 6-18-24 .358
- 2011-12: 22, 1-6-7 .318
- Dan O'Connor, Cougars pbp man (courtesy ironsight): "Even though he didn’t score any goals or put up any helpers, Martin Marincin was a man among boys through spurts of Saturday’s game with Kelowna. Marincin proved once again that when he wants to, he can be the most effective and lethal player on the ice. He’s fast, strong, smart and skilled, and has the ability to take a game over. If Marincin puts forth a similar performance tonight against Kootenay, the Cougars will have a great chance to win."
His game seems to be up and down like a yo-yo. Hopefully we see him have a good W-Jr and can see how he compares to the rest of the dmen.
ReplyDeleteA dman with a wide range of skills and who has a mean streak or can be just plain dirty is always a nice asset to have.
It's not a bad thing to have a few a-holes on the team. I look forward to seeing him bring some of that tenacity which has been missing in recent rosters. Having a wildcard will help spread some fear into our opponents.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of which, did anyone else see Gilbert stand up the Predator guy at the blue line? That was great!
Losing Hall is tantamount to losing a year of development for this post 30th place team. With Hall the team was going places - but without him they're instantly struggling, struggling as predicted by almost everyone at the start of the season.
ReplyDeleteSo in other words, the Oilers are going to blow for the next while, with a huge struggle to make the playoffs if/when/after Hall returns.
And there's little chance of the lottery - unless the annual tank is still in full operation which means half of the rest of the team goes onto IR(a far off possiblility, but still)
And as always, the IR list starts to exponentially grow for some reason. Does anyone have any theories why the Oilers continue to get beaten up and injured, ever since that lunatic Lowe and MacT talked up "team toughness"?
Meh, if Whitney picks up his pace a little this team will keep winning its share of games. If Svenson and Gagner pick up their paces they'll keep winning more than their share. So I wouldn't do the full bipolar, hunter. :)
ReplyDeleteIt's not a bad thing to have a few a-holes on the team.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Vancouver made the Finals.
As for PG's powerplay, its name was Brett Connolly and it moved to TB.
Yeah, Whitney's game is nowhere near where it needs to be right now. He has a good excuse (he's only played in 7 of the Oilers' last 71 games), but that doesn't change the fact that the Oilers need him to be at the top of his game to have a chance at the playoffs.
ReplyDeleteI've liked Gagner's game of late, and Paajarvi has a real opportunity to gain some traction here, so there are some good things, but the loss of Hall still outweighs them.
As for Marincin, those hits were dirty, but I still get excited about the kid. He's got all the tools, and he actually seems to know how to put them together. I can't wait to see him in the AHL next year.
Marincin's hit on Zucker was payback from the year before for this Zucker hit.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCR3PxvuSA4
@Hockeyguy10
ReplyDeleteI think I like the fact that he had a long memory on that one.
One hopes though, at the NHL level, he will learn to pick his spots. Wouldn't want to see that in an NHL playoff game.
@ Hunter1909
ReplyDeleteI don't think losing Hall should hurt that bady (the team should not be that dependant on one player with the forward crop they have).
That said, the team didn't look good last night.
The Oilers really, really, really need to package up a couple of forwards for a legit top 4 defenceman if they hope to make the playoffs this year. By Jan 1 at the latest.
I love both Marincin and Gernat, and am hoping like hell that they both turn out.
ReplyDelete@Hockeyguy10 - thanks for that. We can all agree that headshots are bad, but knowing that Marincin was sticking up for a teammate rather than just being a prick is meaningful.
Does anyone have any theories why the Oilers continue to get beaten up and injured, ever since that lunatic Lowe and MacT talked up "team toughness"?
The ghost of Izzy Mandelbaum?
@misfit: I've liked most of Gagner's game of late as well, but then he goes and commits about a quadruple brain cramp on the game-winning goal-against and I just put my head in my hands. A 5-year vet making that lame pass into the middle of his own zone should at least get the hell involved in getting it back. Instead he stood around, out of position, as the puck went around the horn first and then went in the net.
ReplyDeleteLate in the third, 1-1, both teams more or less hanging on for the Bettman point, or waiting for a mistake, whichever comes first. In this case, the mistake did. And it was a doozy.
GCW:
ReplyDeleteHe picked the right spot(down 6-1 I think with 5-6 minutes to go)but he cost himself the rest of the tourney.Which wasn't too smart.But he is just a kid.
Bruce: in the replay it looked a lot like Gagner was going behind the net and it went off TooToo's skate.
ReplyDeleteThere were several other instances where Gagner and Belanger made horrible passes across their own blue that could've ended just the same - so I'm not sure if it's much of a redemption. Gagner had a rollercoaster of a night.
Whitney looks and plays like a man of constant sorrow. I fear he is not long of this earth.
ReplyDeleteMaricin's nasty side could be an asset in small measures. It certainly makes for interesting nicknames. At first I wanted to call him the Bratislava Bitch. However, he's from Kosice, which led me towards the Kosice ... well, this is a family show, so I'll leave that unsaid.
In any case, I have high hopes for him and I'm glad to read about some of the circumstantial reasons for his relative lack of production so far this season (i.e. poor team).
I wouldn't think that Renney would be out of line if Sam didn't see the ice again in the 3rd last night and spent the next game in the press box. That was a play that an 18 year old playing in his first NHL game might make, not a 5th year vet.
ReplyDeleteThat pass Gagner made was as much the fault of the defenseman (Belanger playing the part in this case) and just plain old bad luck as it was Gagner.
ReplyDeleteThat "chip it to the middle for the advancing defenseman" is a set breakout play for them. It went off Tootoo's skate putting it just a little too far ahead of #20. Also, Belanger seemed to have hesitated a bit early on in the sequence. Maybe because he's not used to being the defenseman, or maybe he just didn't see the play right away, I don't know, but it put him a step behind.
If that pass hits him, they're out of the zone and on the attack. Instead, it grazes a skate, and the NSH forward beats Belanger to the puck, gets a backhand on net, and everything breaks down from there.
Gagner did have Jones heading up ice (with the puck deep in the defensive zone...surprise surprise), so in hidsight, putting it off the boards and out would've been the better play, but that would also mean turning his back on Jordin Tootoo against the boards who's already 4 strides in. If he does that and Tootoo puts him face-first into the glass, we're all saying he's stupid for not protecting himself.
I've seen Marincin a few times over the last few seasons here in PG. He is a beauty to watch and now that Connolly is in TB, he's the only reason to watch the Cougars.
ReplyDeleteHe reminds me a little bit of another Slovak that played here quite a few years ago. Went by the name Chara or something like that.
misfit said...
ReplyDeleteThat pass Gagner made was as much the fault of the defenseman (Belanger playing the part in this case) and just plain old bad luck as it was Gagner.
MF...watch how many passes Gagner actually does and does not complete though. Up to you whether or not to include the skyhigh loopers, next to zero percentage jobs he's famous for. Outside of a decent snapshot I don't see a whole lot he's particularly good at to be honest.
Board battles? Skating? Positional play? Speed? Looks decent when he's playing with top end talent but so do other guys. On a team like this he needs to do some carrying vs being carried and carving out a niche of his own that gets him better ice time with better players. Has he done so? I don't think so. IMO he's a neutral player right now. Doesn't affect things a whole ton one way or another when he should be staking a claim as a future second line C and a solid top 6 option.
If the player doesn't fit...you must omit. Contrary to what some have suggested I wouldn't be making a Dman the highest possible trade priority. Reasonably satisfied with a Whitney/Gilbert/Smid/Petry top 4 assuming all can stay healthy and Sutton/Barker/Peckham/Teubert filling out the 6 - 7. I'd prefer to see Gagner + young D + prospect/pick dangled in an effort to land a forward, preferably centre, that does fit.
So, if Bobby Ryan is actually on the market, think EDM would look into that?
ReplyDeleteSure, one could argue the D is a bigger need, but Ryan would fit in terms of age, would add some size.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteAs per Tencer tweet:
ReplyDeleteLines at practice:
94-93-14
89-10-83
91-20-28
16-x-37
57 off with a maintenance day.
25 passed Renney's test and is available for tomorrow.
With 2 losses in a row and Renney on a contract year I think he probably feels that he doesn't have the luxury of time to let 91 feel his way onto the 10-83 line.
Given who is healthy, I think 89 is probably the logical choice.
Man what a shitty time for Harski and Youtube to both be out with long term injuries.
No call up from OKC as of yet.
ReplyDeleteSo, if Bobby Ryan is actually on the market, think EDM would look into that?
Sure, one could argue the D is a bigger need, but Ryan would fit in terms of age, would add some size.
Would 89 and 91 be enough, too much? I like the size Ryan would add and 35 goals every year is always great to have. This is a trade I would make.
89-10-83
ReplyDeleteReally!
11.85M for 3 (15-18) Goal scorers.
9G 21A in 54 Games.
91-20-28 like as a 4th line.
Ryan would be a great pickup, but I just don't see a trade happening with a player like Eberle on the board. That's not a trade I'd make. You can throw around a Hemsky/Gagner/Omark + a 1st, but Hemsky being in a contract year and Gagner and Omark stuttering along doesn't get the trade done.
ReplyDeleteThat should read without Eberle.
ReplyDeletethroug all this what has become clear is at the end of the year when Hartikainen, MP, And Ganer were producing in the .75 to .875PPG range they all had one thing in common.
ReplyDeleteOMARK!
I don't think losing Hall should hurt that badly(the team should not be dependent on one player with the forward crop they have)
ReplyDeleteBut they ARE dependent on 2 players: One being Hall the other RNH. The rest? Complimentary players, sans Eberle full stop.
The team plays terrible without Hall, because they are basically not a very good team yet. They're halfway in/out of the gutter. Give them Hall/RNH/Eberle and you literally have a guaranteed goal per game; remove Hall/RNH and that guaranteed goal disappears.
Furthermore, not only does that guaranteed goal disappear, but all the holes in the two time 30th place SS Lowebellini return - like boneheaded plays at crucial times(see Gagner for the latest but certainly not last example).
I agree that Hall was really starting to play well, especially with 10-83.
ReplyDeleteAs far as everyone being complementary except for Hall and RNH, here is the Oilers 5v5 pts/60 forwards (min 10gp)
JORDANEBERLE 3.5
RYANSMYTH 3.45
RYANNUGENT-HOPKINS 2.48
TAYLORHALL 2.1
ALESHEMSKY 2.06
RYANJONES 1.86
SHAWNHORCOFF 1.61
SAMGAGNER 1.19
LENNARTPETRELL 0.71
BENEAGER 0.5
ERICBELANGER 0.47
ANTONLANDER 0.29
MAGNUSPAAJARVI-SVENSSON 0.28
Remember 94 did most of that with 10-83/28
Here's the Oilers' forwards 5v4 pts/60
RYANNUGENT-HOPKINS 8.19
ERICBELANGER 6.82
SHAWNHORCOFF 5.83
TAYLORHALL 5.05
ALESHEMSKY 4
RYANSMYTH 3.49
JORDANEBERLE 3.03
SAMGAGNER 2.57
No question that 4 and 93 are key, especially in coming years, but to say the team is dead without one of them or everyone else are bit players is selling the other guys short.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe fact: At the moment when Hall went down Oilers were either in playoff position/poised to be in had they won the two points on offer.
ReplyDeleteSince Hall went down Oilers have dropped 4 points and gained zero points; they are no longer in playoff position.
My expectation for the 2011-12 Oilers without Hall is a 12th place team. With him I imagined a 6th place team, and yes, a lot of Oilers have been playing rather well this year.
Hall I read is expected to be out for up to a month, and by then I predict Oilers will be well out of playoff contention; meaning, everyone's in for yet another February/March with a poor probability of making the playoffs.
I'm only a fan, and I have an opinion which doesn't necessarily have to hold water, let alone stand up in a court.
Apologies for not being more optimistic, but that's what I see happening.
dooz:
ReplyDeleteI get what you're saying, but the reality* is that Eberle is a more valuable trade chip than Ryan. Ryan is the more proven player, but ANA "only" controls him for 3 and 3/4 years, at a real cost of $5,562,500 per season with a 5.1 mil cap hit over that term. EDM controls Eberle for 5 and 3/4 seasons at a cost of $1,158,333 for the next 1 and 3/4 seasons** before he becomes an RFA for 4 years.
* Well, my opinion
** Assuming he hits his bonuses, which looks liike a pretty decent bet at this point.
Since Hall went down...
ReplyDeleteYou mean ONE game ago?
I drove toothpicks through my eyelids, handcuffed myself to my couch (well, let the cat on my lap, same thing) and watched and rewatched the game-losing sequence. Gagner's cutesy backhand pass through an opponents legs to a spot in the middle of his own faceoff circle did indeed tick a skate and deflect to one of the opponents lurking on the edge of that circle, but it was a terrible decision even as it was a mite unlucky in the execution. There is a reason they are called low percentage passes.
ReplyDeleteGagner could have moved the puck in three directions there - up the boards, down the boards, or nowhere at all. His best choice was to eat the puck for a second, just as Petry and Belanger had already done. Instead, he did the opponents' job for them, getting the puck off the boards and into the middle of the ice.
While I was pinned down I also watched the 7:39 that remained from then to the end of the game, and the Oilers were absolutely terrible, never even came close to getting a decent shot. A few desperation lobs from the boards, a couple of not-quick-enough releases into shinpads, and a whole lot of bad passes and bobbled pucks. I'm fairly convinced that the ice was pure shit last night, two many pucks went walkabout when seemingly in full control. But the team wasn't a whole lot better than that in any event. An ugly game.
And now my eyelids hurt, dammit.
@ misfit: Ridiculous, isn't it?
ReplyDelete@ Bruce: I'm sure the cat is fine. And that it cares.
@speeds
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely Eberle is a more valuable trade chip, based on salary, performance and potential there are very few players more valuable. The main point of my post is I don't believe we have the assets we would be willing to give up to get a guy like Ryan.
Rather than trade for Ryan I'd like to see the Oilers speak to ANA about same of their prospects. Two of Gagner, Hemsky, and Horcoff for Etem and Holland.
ReplyDeleteThis team is not going to make the playoffs, even with Hall. The game plan is now out on the Oilers: hit them, play good defense, and generally rough them up. NASH just did it. MIN and COL did it.
They need to get some bigger forwards with some ability to grind out games and impose their will on other teams. The Oilers have two guys (Smyth and Jones) that can get in
front of the net. That's just not going to get it done.
Ryan would help with this but you only get him for three years and you have to give up enough young guys that it effectively terminates the rebuild.
crazy coach
ReplyDeleteNice to hear someone is seeing him good.
A few questions
- Is he one of the best Dmen in the WHL this season? An all star and clear top pairing Dman?
- Does he look like he is gaining any weight? It would be nice to know what happened this summer. Gregor hinted the Oilers were disappointed with his offseason and will get him to stay here this offseason to get stronger and heavier.
- If Connelly were still in PG, do you think his offence would be tracking closer to last seasons?
- Does he PK this year? Last year apparently he did not.
- Does he fight much? If so, is he good at it?
- Does he play 25-30 mins a night?
Look forward to your answers if you see this and have the answers.
Thanks in advance.
I am talking about Marincin,
ReplyDeleteOh, and Lowe is not going to trade for a guy he called a questionable number two pick.
ReplyDeleteRyan O'Marra recalled. Weird. don't we, for the first time in eons, have too many centres on the roster? why not Cornet or Keller? So Lander is going to wing then?
ReplyDeleteLander missed practice today for a "maintenance day". Or not.
ReplyDeleteO'Mara was called up to end the question of whether Belanger is a 3rd line center or a 4th line center. As we all know, O'Mara is the 4TH LINE Center.
ReplyDeleteWord was Gernat had made the Slovak WJ team too, correct?
ReplyDeleteMy blue-sky dreams have been filled with two looming, Slovakian towers since we snapped up the second Martin. I cannot wait to see the two of them play together for the first time.
Christmas, come soon.
Is he one of the best Dmen in the WHL this season? An all star and clear top pairing Dman?
ReplyDeleteBased on what I've seen and heard, I'd say he's definitely in the top 10 for the entire Dub. Of course, there are higher profile guys, like Dumba, et el, but Marincin seems to fly under the radar.
Does he look like he is gaining any weight? It would be nice to know what happened this summer. Gregor hinted the Oilers were disappointed with his offseason and will get him to stay here this offseason to get stronger and heavier.
Hard to say with all the gear on, but word on the street is that he is utilizing the services of a very good registered trainer. PG has wonderful services for players who WANT to utilize them.
If Connelly were still in PG, do you think his offence would be tracking closer to last seasons?
Losing Connelly was a big blow for this franchise, but I have seen a bigger commitment on his part to take care of business in his own end a little more, often being the fifth guy leaving the d-zone, whereas last season he was often the 4th or some times 3rd player leaving the d-zone.
Does he PK this year? Last year apparently he did not.
He is doing it a little more this year, but he still looks lost. The raw technical skills are there, but the read and react still needs work.
Does he fight much? If so, is he good at it?
He's a tough cookie that's for sure and he looks for vengeance when it needs to be doled out. The two fights I've seen him in, he's held his own, but he's no Dave Brown.
Does he play 25-30 mins a night?
To be honest with you, I never really tracked his ice time much, but he played a consistent second shift and some times he had different partners.
That's all I have for now. I can tell you more next time I go. I'll keep a conscious mind on the things you asked.
Good stuff, CrazyCoach, thanks!
ReplyDeleteBipolar square wave: p < 0.33, spit bitterly "we're not going to make it"; p >= 0.66 rouse the heavens "it's a sure thing"; 0.33 <= p < 0.66 reveals your nature: optimists rejoice, pessimists despair.
ReplyDeleteTo me we look like a solid 9/10 right now. If the vicissitudes are kind rather than cruel and we could easily squeak over the bar a season sooner than we had any right to expect as things looked two months ago: soaring Ryans, the graduation of Smid/Gilbert, an MVP who doesn't routinely embarrass, some useful utility guys under the letter P, and Ebs+MPS sawing off the sophomore slump.
If Whitney at some point gives us a 30 game last hurrah of studly feeds we could land anywhere 5 though 8. Zero percent chance the Calder is compatible with Fail for Nail.