The Smid injury is described by Jim Matheson: Smid’s right shoulder is likely either dislocated or separated, not that the Oilers are letting on how bad it is. Smid says he’ll take treatment, but realistically he’ll start the season on injured reserve.
Steve Tambellini tells us that they'll wait and see about the injuries but there should be some decent names available on blue from a few NHL teams. Detroit usually attempts to slide useful people through the waiver wire this time of season, that might be a team to watch in the next 48 hours.
Oilers need help on D even if everyone is healthy. If they don't make a move then this season will be about evaluating Taylor Chorney, Jeff Petry and callups like Teubert and Plante.
wow, all these injuries and the season hasn't even started yet! :-(
ReplyDeleteOur blue line could be considered bad without the injuries. With Smid and Whitney out, this blueline is going to likely earn us another fantastic draft pick. I'm tired of tanking. Everyone here knows it's time to right the ship, including management. So it's time for management to prove they have the brains to make it happen.
ReplyDeleteLT,
ReplyDeleteMatheson must tune out Oake.
Tambellini specifically called Smid's injury an AC separation, which is different than a dislocated shoulder. The two can't be confused, nor do they indicate severity. They're different injuries.
Hall-Horcoff-Hemsky
ReplyDeleteMPS-Belanger/Gagner-Omark
Smyth-RNH-Eberle
Whitney-White
Hannan-Gilbert
Smid-Petry
Remember: We could've at least had White and Hannan instead of Barker/Sutton. Though, ideally, we could've easily added all four.
BTW, the team above is definitely, a playoff team. And it was a team that we all would've built. But Tambo didn't build it.
ReplyDeleteProblem is I don't see a reason for any lower end waiver additions (see Lashoff for instance) since those guys are only going to provide marginal help and the Oilers might as well just have their young guys play and develop in that case.
ReplyDeleteI don't see any way around this other than moving some valuable assets for better defense that can play big minutes. It will mean moving players that could do very well somewhere else (and could do well for the Oilers if there was room)
Matt Lashoff on waivers. He is solid and an upgrade on Potter. Would like to see us pick him up to help the depth and allow the team to have some NHL experience on the big club. Yes he is left handed, but he has some NHL experience, is a toigh dman with not much O. I know it doesn't help our inability to get the puck out of our own end, but at least he can play
ReplyDelete"Steve Tambellini tells us that they'll wait and see"
ReplyDeleteI'M ABOUT TO DIE OF NOT SURPRISE.
Further to the previous post, I love that one of the main complaints about Ryan Jones is that he 'shouldn't' have scored as many goals as he did last year, not he 'didn't'
ReplyDeleteIt's a bit like complaining about a new gal being a hellcat in the sack cos you suspect it isn't sustainable. Rather than complain about it, why not enjoy it while it lasts?
Lee: The issue is paying those kinds of dollars for one year's worth of proof. Good for Jones, sign that deal and head for Cabela's.
ReplyDeleteBut as a contract choice, it suggests the Oilers are perhaps not the brightest bulbs.
It's a bit like complaining about a new gal being a hellcat in the sack cos you suspect it isn't sustainable. Rather than complain about it, why not enjoy it while it lasts?
ReplyDeleteThat's fine. You don't lock her down for two years though.
LT, remember the year when Dave Lumley went on his improbable scoring run? Like Jones last year, that was a clear outlier SP from a player who would never match that level of performance again. Had the blogosphere existed back then, I suspect the advanced stats boys would have been jumping all over Lumley saying there's no way this guy scores in 12 consecutive games next year. Math does not like him! To which I would reply, shut up and enjoy it. This is exactly what makes sport special.
ReplyDeleteGranted that wasn't a salary cap era so Slats didn't have to evaluate Lummer purely from a moneyball perspective, but I can't help but feel that something is lost when all intangible considerations are deemed irrelevant. He's good in the room gets mocked by many here, but the fact remains that a scant 2 seasons ago, the Oilers' dressing room was cancerous. Having a waiver pickup pot 18 while bringing an infectious enthusiasm to the bench is NOT a bad development for this org. Moreover, that type of performance (whether it's outlier or not) has to be rewarded (however modestly) because it sends a good message to the rest of the players that improvement is actually rewarded by this org.
Many of the armchair GMs here act like these players are simply chess pieces and forget that there are real and potentially damaging ramifications when you treat players like numbers instead of treating them like men. Further, we have no idea what these players are like personally and what they contribute to the overall team culture. We should try to remember that in second guessing mgmt's decisions.
As stated in the previous thread, the Jones contract is a nominal risk at best. The team's lack of a clear no. 1 tender is a far bigger concern IMO if we're looking for things to obsess about.
D is one of the hardest positions to develop, the key is usually time and experience in a developmentally appropriate setting for the skill level of that player. That being said the majority of our blue-line kids should not be in the NHL at this time and the AHL is the wiser choice.
ReplyDeleteIt has been said on this site/ON and by hockey experts that it can take up to 5 years for these young adults to physically mature and fully understand the nuances of playing D.
I can only see two ways out of the funk the Oilers find themselves in in regards to their defense and that is to either pick up bodies in wavers w/NHL experience or trade from a position of strength to get the player they want. Neither, at this moment in time are going to be great options because the players going to be available on waivers are probably not going to be more than marginally better than what we already have. Also the other 29 GM's can see us coming and are going to milk us for they can, pecking away at the young players that the organization has worked hard on drafting/developing. Ensuring we remain cellar dwellers for years to come.
I would personally prefer if the Oilers went to the waive wire route and continue to develop our players in the AHL until they are ready. This is why a rebuild takes 4-6 years and not 3 or less. I don't expect the Oilers to be competitive for at least another year and into the playoffs for two. Although I get the feeling that the fan-base will not be willing to wait that long.
Poor Jones. Buddy gets a bad rap for winning too much $$$.
ReplyDeleteShould probably attack the abberation of Darcy Hordichuk before anything.
Last time i've seen a guy get ''protected'' by a tough guy they allowed all white skates.
That's fine. You don't lock her down for two years though.
ReplyDeleteMC, you're a lawyer. You should know better than anyone the unbreakable bond that exists between hot women and financial compensation. You can either pay more up front to keep you on her speed dial or much more in the longterm to lock it down. But in the end, no one rides for free.
On a completely separate note, did anyone else enjoy Michael Vick's press conference yesterday? DK (aka Dog Killer) has been a absolute loose cannon in the pressers the last two weeks.
Interesting discussion in light of the "price of sex" hitting an all time low.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/cheap_dates_EnfcHi7NwBAkD3RYMUWv6I
Perhaps the Oilers' love affair with Jones is no more than an ugly nerd having to pay a hooker well above market value for a "date".
@DSF, the most valuable lesson in life occurs when you enter grade 10 and realize all the hot grade 12 girls are going out with the guys with the nicest cars. Males thrive when presented with an obvious goal and it all starts there ; )
ReplyDeleteAs a corollary to this, did you ever notice that it wasn't the hot girls pushing the women's liberation agenda? I suspect most of them were like 'hey sister, I don't work and I spend most of my day shopping. Don't rock the boat!' lol
So what does this make Ryan Jones? That's easy. His first car was a Shelby Cobra and he's absolutely swimming in it. Unfortunately for him, his next car is a Gremlin.
Lashoff is there - go get him. He fills a hole for now and is not inconsistent with the stockpile plan.
ReplyDeleteMaking a trade, now, is going to be hard. The price point is too steep at this point. If an opportunity presents itself down the road, we do so then.
Lee:
ReplyDelete"So what does this make Ryan Jones?"
Good from far but far from good.
Forward lines on the ice this morning: Hall-NugentHopkins-Hemsky, Smyth-Belanger-Eberle, Paajarvi-Horcoff-Omark, Petrell-Lander-Jones
ReplyDeleteInteresting lines. I'd rather see Lander with the other swedes, but that should be a solid 4th line.
I really think the competition will be between Lander and RNH to see who gets sent down/back to junior. Lander plays well, then RNH goes down when Gagner is back. RNH lights it up (and it looks like they'll give him every opportunity based on lines)
Should be fun. Now about that D?
His Wiki entry describes Matt Lashoff as "a smooth-voiced John Mayer soft rock radio hunk"
ReplyDeleteI love the Internet.
@Lee:
ReplyDeleteThe most valuable lesson I learned in Grade 10 was that just because you fancy a particular girl, it doesn't follow that she's not going to fuck with your head.
As for the morons who want guys with cars in HS...most of them end up with divorces and black eyes by the time they're 22.
Give me college chicks 7 days of the week, and twice on Sunday.
BTW, the team above is definitely, a playoff team. And it was a team that we all would've built. But Tambo didn't build it.
ReplyDeleteYou take out Sutton and Barker and add in White and Hannan and this is a playoff team?
Come on.
Hall-Nuge-Hemsky skating together today. That could be one scary line combo.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if there's any point in picking up any waiver garbage. It's been clear since July 1st (or earlier?) that this team is not interested in competing this season. We might as well give some at-bats to the kids.
Lee
ReplyDeleteHave zero idea why the putdowns for the numbers guys. Think that if you read Jon Willis' comments (OilerNation) at time of the Brule contract signing that he raised an awful lot of red signs pointing as to why it was a dumb deal then. Ditto MC79 when Khabby was signed for too much $$ for a ridiculous term
The math boys actually have a lot of extremely valid points.
Or we can just go with hot chick analogies. I will stick with the math boys and the civil rights movements altho Lowetide does have some awfully nice photos on this site
Woodguy has also convincingly laid out why Jones was a mediocre player but think he uses math to do it
Finally Lumley's goalscoring streak was an incredible achievement by Gretzky and had little to do with Lumley. It did, however, forever answer the question "how the bleep did BJ MacDonald ever score 44 goals in the NHL"?
They're undeniably lovely to look at, but at this point in my life, my perception of college girls is best summarized by the lyrics of Steely Dan's Hey Nineteen.
ReplyDeleteAll players on waivers during the weekend cleared, per Bob.
ReplyDeleteDuce
ReplyDeleteYou shooting for 27th overall this year?
Think Kris meant to say: with Whitney playing 65 games and a reasonable facsimile of Hannan and White's NHL prime and the Oil can compete for the playoffs.
I assume even ST is over the Khabby is our starter.....right? Because if not we will be in the lottery....again!!
Or we can wait for 2013/14
@theotherjohn
ReplyDeleteYou're missing my point on Jones. I'm not deriding in total the math evaluation of Jones, simply stressing that the actual risk in terms of contract dollars or ice-time taken from other prospects is nominal AND math alone should not dictate how people are managed when you're trying to build a team culture. Incidentally, if paying over market value for players is such a concern, then why are Horcoff and Gilbert not subjected to the same level of criticism that Jones is? I would suspect it's because we're realistic enough to realize we can't dump those contracts so Jones is a more convenient target.
By the way, how do our math guys feel about the recent developments in CERN as applicable to the speed of light? How's that for a 'back to the drawing board' moment?
You shooting for 27th overall this year?
ReplyDeleteThink Kris meant to say: with Whitney playing 65 games and a reasonable facsimile of Hannan and White's NHL prime and the Oil can compete for the playoffs.
kris pretty clearly said Tambo should have White and Hannan on this team, this year. That's unless he was expecting Tambo to have a time machine.
White's Rel Corsi last year was -6.7 which put him 6th on NJ among D. He had 6 assists.
Hannan was -0.9 again 5th or 6th best on WSH among D. He managed one goal to go with his 4 assists. He as not played close to full sched in 3 years.
Neither of these guys is going to put the team in the playoffs and I'd wager that had Tambo brought them in during the summer people would be Ryan Jonesing them by Feb.
BTW 25th overall is a realistic goal this season. The most you can hope for is a decease of the goal differential by 40 goals or so. That will still leave them at -36 and a long ways from the playoffs.
It's been clear since July 1st (or earlier?) that this team is not interested in competing this season.
ReplyDeleteRibs- totally agree, I don't understand why people take the GM's comments about playoffs seriously when his actions dictate otherwise. GM's can't be fully honest when talking about their team or plan. In fact, they often have to be totally dishonest. If, instead, you look at their actions, you can see a pretty clear trajectory that the goal is improvement and development, not playoffs. I expect that the 'real goal' is something like 25th overall.
This is really not that difficult.
ReplyDeleteThe next major job facing the Oiler GM will be contract management. It does not appear to be a strength of the current management group. It MUST be moving forward. I agree with you Horcoff and Gilbert are overpaid for their contribution but those are contracts from the past. Guess we can just keep signing bad contracts and say it affects no one till we ship a real valuable player out of town because of Brule, Nillson, Jones type contracts. Little alone Horcoff, Khabby, Souray, Gilbert, Zorg, JDD, now just thinking about it getting mad.....
Gotta run wife wants to go out to supper
I'd be surprised if any blueliner they pick up elicits any bigger response then "meh".
ReplyDeleteFrom where I'm sitting it's going to be an alright year of watching the forwards coming together and having to work hard to make up for the defensive shortcomings but of course coming up short and another year of in the hunt for a lottery pick.
I really feel for the dudes that are buying season tickets year after year hoping it gets better.
There's always next year. (And that statement probably isn't an empty one as they actually could be a good team next year)
Even if the waiver wire only marginally upgrades the D, don't you do it? It would allow you to send down some depth to OKC with Potter, Petry, and/or probably and eventually Chorney (another team doesn't play him in the bigs this year).
ReplyDeleteIt's not going to help the team win here and now, but it helps the farm and gives you some depth when more injuries strike that you aren't calling up guys clearly over their head.
If, instead, you look at their actions, you can see a pretty clear trajectory that the goal is improvement and development, not playoffs.
ReplyDeleteCouldn't agree more. In recent interviews, MBS and Tambi are licking their chops about next year's draft being apparently deep in defenseman with the insinuation being that they'll finish the work started this draft with Klefbom and Musil by getting some more bluechip D in next year's draft. I suspect they see that as the culmination of the asset accumulation for the new 'core'
The obvious question is how this is going to work out timing wise with D men being drafted later in the rebuild and taking longer to development as well, whilst their offensive brethren speed pell mell towards RFA status?
What they're seemingly ignoring in the CHI and PIT models is the fact those teams were already developing some pretty good defenseman prior to hitting the lottery with Crosby, Toews, etc. For the Oilers rebuild approach to work, I think we need to pray for very strong seasons from any or all of Hemsky, Horcoff, Gilbert or Whitney so we can peddle 1 or 2 of these players for durable, seasoned D with fair value contracts. Whitney could obviously solve a big problem just by staying healthy, but two teams have already given up on that and quite likely the Oil will be the third when they realize wishful thinking does not constitute competitive advantage.
My questions about Jones are these:
ReplyDeleteDo his detractors understand that he plays physical? You all keep talking about how we need to be more physical, harder to play against, but guys like Jones and Peckham who hit anything that moves get shat upon.
Do you get that he scores garabge goals? Jones can only do that because he goes to the hard areas of the ice. Isn't that another of the memes of Oilers blogs? That our guys won't go to the hard areas of the ice.
You do know that Jones has always had a high SP (one year in college he had some like a 17.9 scoring % and his worst NHL year was 11.1%). Plus Lowetide is always posting points per 60 minutes. In three seasons in the NHL on a points per 60 minutes basis Jones has been remarkably consistent. This was a career year only in terms of the minutes Jones got to play and a slight inflation in expected goals per 60 - but it was slight. It may remain a career year because he may never play that many minutes again. That doesn't mean he stopped being capable or the Oilers over paid him.
Don't we all believe the Oilers are going to continue getting hurt in record numbers? Last year when people got hurt Jones was the utility infielder every coach dreams of, he lead Oiler's forwards in hits, blocks, and even strength goals, and managed to play 81 games.
What I am trying to say is he is insurance. Hard worker, entertaining to watch, coachable, good in the room, super fit, goes to the hard areas to score.
You all want to replace him with Hartikianen a player I love but one with no proven resume at this level. Isn't real NHL players still the goal?
As for his salary, give me comparables. That is guys who can score given the ice time, hit, block shots, work their butts off, and do whatever the coach needs. In time that will be Hartikianen's job description. For now Jones has the job because he has earned it.
I don't think this is going anywhere, so will close it.
ReplyDelete