that's it, fire Tambellini. How could he let a perfectly good player get placed on waivers? Now we know why he didn't want to do that for Jaques for so many years, because something like this would happen. That is bad asset management, as the Oilers now have one less of them to manage. we lost him for nothing, NOTHING.
(and yes, that is sarcasm, in case anyone missed it)
Joanne Ireland jirelandEJ Joanne Ireland by mc79hockey
NHL's Department of Player Safety has reviewed Ryan Smyth's hit on Pens Chris Kunitz and decided there will be further discipline. #Oilers 4 minutes ago
Matheson on 1260 this morning thought they were waiving Chorney because Whitney or Eager was coming back. Because he is a D we could only hope Whitney is ready.
I wonder if we see a minor league trade for a defenseman now. They needed one before, but I figured they were just going to wait until they had a healthy body in Edmonton to send down.
I picture Tambellini hugging his knees gently rocking himself in the corner, whispering in a barely audible cracked voice, "This is why I shouldn't waive players...this is why I shouldn't waive players..."
Really, while we lost the Chorn-dog for free, I still feel like this was a good decision by Tambellini. Chorney was in tough to make the line up, even though our defense can be summed up as a steaming pile of dog shit most nights. Chorney didn't really address a need here or improve upon anyone in our current group of D-men.
Can't hang on to them all. Best of luck to him in St. Louis... just not against us (that never happens, does it?).
wunderbar: I don't get "sarcasm" through a computer, so please tell me you were kidding. I'm going to assume you were kidding for the sake of my sanity
wunderbar: I don't get "sarcasm" through a computer, so please tell me you were kidding. I'm going to assume you were kidding for the sake of my sanity
Wow, you have reached the second layer of sarcasm - its getting Inception-like in here today.
Does this happen often? Just wondering how likely this is.
Not sure, but I can't see the Oilers let the Blues place Chorney on their AHL team without claiming him back. Unless the Blues are willing to let Chorney spend the whole season in the NHL, he will be back.
Really, while we lost the Chorn-dog for free, I still feel like this was a good decision by Tambellini.
Agreed. Tough loss, with out a doubt. As fans we can get fixated on the 1D's and the players that put the puck in the net, and forget about all the pluggers that are critical in a team's success. Bubble minor leaguers are very valuable items especially when you are making a playoff drive or playoff run and you run into a rash of injuries. A solid minor league system can make or break a championship team. Chorney is a valuable item, especially to a team painfully thin on the blue at both the NHL and minor league level. However rules are rules. He is waiver eligible this year, and we can't let waiver eligibility bully the big league roster.
Strategically, there may be some regret in waiting until this week instead of last week when all kinds of quality bubble Dmen were going through waivers. He likely would have made it through last week. I suspect the Oilers wish they could now take one of those Dmen that went through waivers last week now that they have contract room.
The timing may have been off, but the decision was a good one. Still a difficult loss of an asset in which the Oilers made a substantial investment.
Schremp 1 Goal, 3 Assists in 10 games for Modo. Apparently, there are vigorous blog debates regarding how Ulf Samuelsson (Modo's Coach) doesn't comprehend 'Robbie Schremp Hockey' and how he is wrecking him as a player.
Best part about this is that it's one less contract. The Oilers were currently sitting at 49 contracts (by my count) and this puts them at... wait for it.... 48.
Maybe I am wrong, the Oilers might be happy to leave Chorney to the Blues even if they send him to the AHL. It frees up a contract and they can fill the void on D in the AHL in some other way.
The net effect of this is the Oilers have a little more flexibility for a while. And other GM's will think twice before putting any D-man that's an improvement on Chorney on waivers, as they know the Oilers would claim such a player.
The only way freeing up a contract helps us out is if they actually go out and aquire another one. They sat on their hands at 49, so I don't see them rushing out to add one now that they're at 48 (though something needs to be done on the farm defense-wise)
Although it is late in the game, there is always the possibility of an AHL only contract directly with OKC which does not impact the Oilers contract limit.
Well seeing that the guy is probably the 9th or 10th best dman on the worst blue-line in the league - not much to worry about. Good luck Taylor and save your NHL money while you can.
I'd put Ottawa's offense near or at the bottom of the league as well... they are in tough.
I'm not sure about that Smyth hit on Kunitz. Looked to me like Fraser got it right... Smyth didn't want to take the hit hard so he went on the offensive and laid an elbow into him. Clearly a little dirty and there's nothing wrong with that (just don't get caught doing it with 4 min left in a tie game).
Kunitz led with his helmet, which is one of the dirtier tricks out there. He also certainly was moving upwards into the hit. As Smyth himself noted, he was mainly trying to get out of the way and the contact was arm-first rather than elbow first.
It's a screwed up game if you can't do what Smyth did. It's not like he leaned into the guy with a pointed arm.
It looks to me like Smyth raised his elbow into the guy, popped it a bit to add force to the hit, and then put a little extra into his stick which was swinging down on the player.
I say that after reviewing it a few times at regular speed and slow motion.
I like Smyth, but I see the elbow and maybe even the slash as being intentional. The hit may have been coming late, but I think its an intentional elbow.
The Oilers are playing what...four games this month? A game a week? What a ridiculous sched. When we play Game 2, the Crosby-less Pens will be playing Game 5. Good for Whitney, I suppose, but difficult for things like finding a rhythm, managing goalies etc.
Yeah, I don't know about Fraser's assessment of the Smyth hit. I mean, did he listen to Smyth's postgame comments about it? Smyth explained the whole thing and it made sense.
Fraser didn't even mention that the five minutes came because Kunitz was cut. The cut came from Smyth's stick when it moved downwards towards Kunitz's face after the hit, from what I can recall. So I give that assessment a thumbs down.
Truth is, I'm not convinced that the cut and subsequent injury didn't come when Kunitz went crashing into the boards which had more to do with Smyth spinning out of the hit than the impact Smyth had IMHO.
Kunitz comes in on that Youtube clip just like a big floppy idiot, basically hoping to blindside Smyth who merely deals with the aggressive opponent by waking him up, while trying not to hit him in the teeth.
Kunitz's poor sportsmanship is the issue, not Smyth's perfectly valid reaction. Even Shanahan knows this, which is why no suspension.
This has zero business being in the NHL.
Great job, killing the penalty, with the kids sheltering Smyth lol.
Been healthy scratched 3 straight games; stuck behind a pretty deep defensive core (that includes 3 puck movers in Kaberle, Pitkanen and Gleason) and could soon include Ryan Murphy as well...
LT, in regards to your Red Wings v Oil series on ON, you might find this article by Ken Holland to be of interest in terms of additional background info. Lots of good insider info there that GMs rarely share with the masses.
Realize this is more pertinent to ON but I thought you might find this of interest and I refuse to participate on that site as long as they allow those inane FIST posts.
I don't see how anyone can be calling out Kunitz on the play... clearly the only wrongdoing came from 94. Damn that Kunitz for trying to bodycheck an Oiler!
It's not a big deal, a nice forearm shiver/elbow to an opponent trying to lay a big hit is a part of the game and the team responded well to the obvious penalty call.
I'd be curious about the reaction from the same type of hit on RNH. I suspect the responses would be very, very different from those above...
DIrty plays all round to me. Kunitz trying to run a guy into his own bench well after he passes the puck - and Smyth using his stick and elbow to fend of the hit. Boys will be boys.
I think you need to take into account where on the ice Kunitz intended to hit Smyth. If it was in the corner and Smyth got his arms up, I'd agree with you. But running someone at the bench is going to wind up with Smyth getting hurt.
As far as I am concerned you take a run at someone along there and you deserve a stick in the chicklets.
Its a good thing Kunitz didn't run a Messier or Gordie Howe, they'd still be picking up his teeth.
I would have preferred to link to this comment directly, but Amazon doesn't provide such a link.
User comment by Mark Wieczorek on Sources of Power: How People Make Decisions According to traditional decision making models, first you gather data, then you compile and compare options and decide on a course of action. Studying fire commanders, officers in the military, chess players, and many others in high pressured decision making positions, Klein came to the conclusion that you are more likely to come up with one course of action, run through it mentally to look for flaws. If you don't find any flaws in your model, you act on it, if you do find flaws, you do come up with another possible course of action, but you never compare two options, weighing the pros and cons of each. you simply don't have the time or energy. [My emph.]
Kerry Fraser's column is a huge disappointment. Does not educate in the grey area the fan cares about. But if you step back, you can glean a lot about the mind of a referee. Ping! The light went on tonight. Referees, like firefighters and combat officers operate in the satisfice regime of quick decision making.
From his point of view, any call is a good call if there are no obvious flaws. It's not about making the right call. At the end of his column you think, "OK it wasn't a bad call, but was it the right call?" and all you hear are leaves falling.
What fans want to understand is how satisficing in the moment permits the players to fine-tune at the edge of mayhem. Answer: not very well. We all know that instinctively from harsh experience. In the military, no one complains. If you satisfice on blowing one guy's head off before a different guy, there's no tribunal for Headless Nick. Sucks to be you.
Referees, however, pretend to be in the business of meting out fairness. Satisficing and fairness are red-headed siblings. But there it is, from the ginger toupee.
(Aside: I suppose Amazon thinks I'll satisfice on any other nearby link including all kinds of crap not pertinent to my point. How wrong they are. From a direct link, the reader is just one click away from stretching a leg over the crap moat to hit the BUY button if the object of desire warrants the goose step. I could write for days on the boundary between fair use and learned helplessness; it wouldn't even be off topic on this occasion. How about let's pretend I did and not go there.)
He was never going to be a NHL DMAN. This only hurts the farm team.
ReplyDeleteStortini also put on waivers today.
ReplyDeleteWhoa...wait, who claimed him? Also hope this doesn't make Tambellini gun shy about waiving players in the future.
ReplyDeletethat's it, fire Tambellini. How could he let a perfectly good player get placed on waivers? Now we know why he didn't want to do that for Jaques for so many years, because something like this would happen. That is bad asset management, as the Oilers now have one less of them to manage. we lost him for nothing, NOTHING.
ReplyDelete(and yes, that is sarcasm, in case anyone missed it)
Stortini also put on waivers today.
ReplyDelete...And replaced him with McGrattan off of waivers.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWell it looks like Oilers management was right and we were all wrong.
ReplyDeleteWhy are they worried about sending Chorney through waivers? Because other teams do see value and might claim him.
Not a big loss for the Oilers and their future. He's a long shot to have an NHL career. Big loss for OKC.
I feel bad for the Barons but that's about it.
ReplyDeleteI can't believe St. Louis is going to try to play this guy.
Joanne Ireland
ReplyDeletejirelandEJ Joanne Ireland
by mc79hockey
NHL's Department of Player Safety has reviewed Ryan Smyth's hit on Pens Chris Kunitz and decided there will be further discipline. #Oilers
4 minutes ago
Matheson on 1260 this morning thought they were waiving Chorney because Whitney or Eager was coming back. Because he is a D we could only hope Whitney is ready.
ReplyDeleteI wonder if we see a minor league trade for a defenseman now. They needed one before, but I figured they were just going to wait until they had a healthy body in Edmonton to send down.
ReplyDeleteSt Louis claimed Chorney and then put Colaiacovo on IR. St Louis has 6 other Dmen on the major league roster.
ReplyDeleteIt seems likely that Chorney will be back on waivers in a few weeks.
I picture Tambellini hugging his knees gently rocking himself in the corner, whispering in a barely audible cracked voice, "This is why I shouldn't waive players...this is why I shouldn't waive players..."
ReplyDeleteIreland corrects her tweet...
ReplyDeleteDamn fingers. That should be there will NOT be further discipline for Ryan Smyth.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteReally, while we lost the Chorn-dog for free, I still feel like this was a good decision by Tambellini. Chorney was in tough to make the line up, even though our defense can be summed up as a steaming pile of dog shit most nights. Chorney didn't really address a need here or improve upon anyone in our current group of D-men.
ReplyDeleteCan't hang on to them all. Best of luck to him in St. Louis... just not against us (that never happens, does it?).
It seems likely that Chorney will be back on waivers in a few weeks.
ReplyDeleteAt which point the Oilers can claim him and send him to the AHL (unless another team claims him and keeps him in the NHL).
wunderbar: I don't get "sarcasm" through a computer, so please tell me you were kidding. I'm going to assume you were kidding for the sake of my sanity
ReplyDeleteAt which point the Oilers can claim him and send him to the AHL (unless another team claims him and keeps him in the NHL).
ReplyDeleteDoes this happen often? Just wondering how likely this is.
wunderbar: I don't get "sarcasm" through a computer, so please tell me you were kidding. I'm going to assume you were kidding for the sake of my sanity
ReplyDeleteWow, you have reached the second layer of sarcasm - its getting Inception-like in here today.
Does this happen often? Just wondering how likely this is.
ReplyDeleteNot sure, but I can't see the Oilers let the Blues place Chorney on their AHL team without claiming him back. Unless the Blues are willing to let Chorney spend the whole season in the NHL, he will be back.
Oh no! We actually have some contract flexibility. I didnt think this was allowed in edmonton
ReplyDeleteSail on, no hope to make this team player.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of the devil, I wonder how Schremp's doing these days.
Still time to register your season predictions for the Western Conference over at Occidental Oilers Fan.
ReplyDeleteReally, while we lost the Chorn-dog for free, I still feel like this was a good decision by Tambellini.
ReplyDeleteAgreed. Tough loss, with out a doubt. As fans we can get fixated on the 1D's and the players that put the puck in the net, and forget about all the pluggers that are critical in a team's success. Bubble minor leaguers are very valuable items especially when you are making a playoff drive or playoff run and you run into a rash of injuries. A solid minor league system can make or break a championship team. Chorney is a valuable item, especially to a team painfully thin on the blue at both the NHL and minor league level. However rules are rules. He is waiver eligible this year, and we can't let waiver eligibility bully the big league roster.
Strategically, there may be some regret in waiting until this week instead of last week when all kinds of quality bubble Dmen were going through waivers. He likely would have made it through last week. I suspect the Oilers wish they could now take one of those Dmen that went through waivers last week now that they have contract room.
The timing may have been off, but the decision was a good one. Still a difficult loss of an asset in which the Oilers made a substantial investment.
One less contract on the books. Would you try and sign McCabe on a one year contract? McCabe replacing Chorney would be a good deal to me.
ReplyDeleteSchremp 1 Goal, 3 Assists in 10 games for Modo. Apparently, there are vigorous blog debates regarding how Ulf Samuelsson (Modo's Coach) doesn't comprehend 'Robbie Schremp Hockey' and how he is wrecking him as a player.
ReplyDeleteBest part about this is that it's one less contract. The Oilers were currently sitting at 49 contracts (by my count) and this puts them at... wait for it.... 48.
ReplyDeleteMaybe I am wrong, the Oilers might be happy to leave Chorney to the Blues even if they send him to the AHL. It frees up a contract and they can fill the void on D in the AHL in some other way.
ReplyDeleteThoughts?
The net effect of this is the Oilers have a little more flexibility for a while. And other GM's will think twice before putting any D-man that's an improvement on Chorney on waivers, as they know the Oilers would claim such a player.
ReplyDeleteThe only way freeing up a contract helps us out is if they actually go out and aquire another one. They sat on their hands at 49, so I don't see them rushing out to add one now that they're at 48 (though something needs to be done on the farm defense-wise)
ReplyDeleteAlthough it is late in the game, there is always the possibility of an AHL only contract directly with OKC which does not impact the Oilers contract limit.
ReplyDeletebah.. no biggie. Isn't this good as it gives the Oilers an extra available contract?
ReplyDeletethe only bad thing is for the Barons.
LT, what's your take on this?
loudog: Chorney's a tweener. The 2006 kids passed him miles back.
ReplyDeleteLT: right, and I agree. Plus he's slow. My point is, how does him getting picked up by STL affect the barons?
ReplyDeleteI personally think its good for the Oilers.. as for the barons, not sure.
Oh. Yeah, horrible for the Barons. Expect they'll make a trade this week to address it.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the Barons can sign Bryan McCabe..... just joking folks.. just joking.
ReplyDeleteNot sure if this has been posted, but it's Kerry Fraser's take on the Smyth hit.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=377862
Send Harry Potter to the AHL and trade Gags for Blum.
ReplyDeleteCraig Rivet was signed by an ECHL team. (lol).
ReplyDeleteAs for Chorney, well OKC would proably like another D after getting trashed 7-0 in their opener.
loudog: He's slow? Um, sorry, but that's one thing Taylor Chorney is not. Watch again.
ReplyDeleteWell seeing that the guy is probably the 9th or 10th best dman on the worst blue-line in the league - not much to worry about. Good luck Taylor and save your NHL money while you can.
ReplyDeletere goalie rotation:
ReplyDeleteHave one play every game until he loses a game, then switch back.
Should make for a good storyline, all season long.
Fraser must have given about a 3 second look to the Smyth-Kunitz play. He completely misread it.
ReplyDeleteAfter watching a couple sens games I think they might have the dubious distincition of being the worst in the business.
ReplyDeletetheir D that is...
ReplyDeleteI'd put Ottawa's offense near or at the bottom of the league as well... they are in tough.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure about that Smyth hit on Kunitz. Looked to me like Fraser got it right... Smyth didn't want to take the hit hard so he went on the offensive and laid an elbow into him. Clearly a little dirty and there's nothing wrong with that (just don't get caught doing it with 4 min left in a tie game).
Kunitz led with his helmet, which is one of the dirtier tricks out there. He also certainly was moving upwards into the hit. As Smyth himself noted, he was mainly trying to get out of the way and the contact was arm-first rather than elbow first.
ReplyDeleteIt's a screwed up game if you can't do what Smyth did. It's not like he leaned into the guy with a pointed arm.
Hopefully Smid doesn't get charged like that Smyth incident, or else he'll be out for 3 months after the fact;
ReplyDeleteWith the Rangers game coming up.
Prediction:
ReplyDeleteBarker has a bigtime NHL career reversal in 2011-12; now all he has to do is pass the puck to the forwards.
It looks to me like Smyth raised his elbow into the guy, popped it a bit to add force to the hit, and then put a little extra into his stick which was swinging down on the player.
ReplyDeleteI say that after reviewing it a few times at regular speed and slow motion.
I like Smyth, but I see the elbow and maybe even the slash as being intentional. The hit may have been coming late, but I think its an intentional elbow.
The Oilers are playing what...four games this month? A game a week? What a ridiculous sched. When we play Game 2, the Crosby-less Pens will be playing Game 5. Good for Whitney, I suppose, but difficult for things like finding a rhythm, managing goalies etc.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletevideo is here
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbbkGSVXPh4
Yeah, I don't know about Fraser's assessment of the Smyth hit. I mean, did he listen to Smyth's postgame comments about it? Smyth explained the whole thing and it made sense.
ReplyDeleteFraser didn't even mention that the five minutes came because Kunitz was cut. The cut came from Smyth's stick when it moved downwards towards Kunitz's face after the hit, from what I can recall. So I give that assessment a thumbs down.
Truth is, I'm not convinced that the cut and subsequent injury didn't come when Kunitz went crashing into the boards which had more to do with Smyth spinning out of the hit than the impact Smyth had IMHO.
ReplyDeleteThanks, bookjie.
ReplyDeleteKunitz comes in on that Youtube clip just like a big floppy idiot, basically hoping to blindside Smyth who merely deals with the aggressive opponent by waking him up, while trying not to hit him in the teeth.
Kunitz's poor sportsmanship is the issue, not Smyth's perfectly valid reaction. Even Shanahan knows this, which is why no suspension.
This has zero business being in the NHL.
Great job, killing the penalty, with the kids sheltering Smyth lol.
Word is that Jamie McBain may be available out of Carolina.
ReplyDeleteHad 30 points in 76 GP last year.
RH shot.
6'2"
4th best rel corsi, 2nd best QOT, 4th best QOC.
23 year old.
No major injuries.
Looks like he could be a real nice bet?
LMHF:
ReplyDeleteThat Kerry Fraser column is a joke every week... all he does is agree with whatever bad call was made that week.
PDO, why is McBain available? Sounds like a guy CAR would want to keep?
ReplyDeleteAfter all, he's an action hero!
Ducey:
ReplyDeleteBeen healthy scratched 3 straight games; stuck behind a pretty deep defensive core (that includes 3 puck movers in Kaberle, Pitkanen and Gleason) and could soon include Ryan Murphy as well...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteLT, in regards to your Red Wings v Oil series on ON, you might find this article by Ken Holland to be of interest in terms of additional background info. Lots of good insider info there that GMs rarely share with the masses.
ReplyDeletehttp://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2008/07/
just_in_time_for_free_agency_k.html
Realize this is more pertinent to ON but I thought you might find this of interest and I refuse to participate on that site as long as they allow those inane FIST posts.
That is not a clean play by Smyth.
ReplyDeleteI don't see how anyone can be calling out Kunitz on the play... clearly the only wrongdoing came from 94. Damn that Kunitz for trying to bodycheck an Oiler!
It's not a big deal, a nice forearm shiver/elbow to an opponent trying to lay a big hit is a part of the game and the team responded well to the obvious penalty call.
I'd be curious about the reaction from the same type of hit on RNH. I suspect the responses would be very, very different from those above...
Lee: Thanks. On the way to reading it now.
ReplyDeleteBendleson: Please return to HF, where that kind of mentality thrives.
ReplyDeleteI'll take your disagreement as a compliment Hunter.
ReplyDeleteThe day you agree with me is the day I worry about.
Kunitz's poor sportsmanship? You can't be serious.
DIrty plays all round to me. Kunitz trying to run a guy into his own bench well after he passes the puck - and Smyth using his stick and elbow to fend of the hit. Boys will be boys.
ReplyDeleteBendelson,
ReplyDeleteI think you need to take into account where on the ice Kunitz intended to hit Smyth. If it was in the corner and Smyth got his arms up, I'd agree with you. But running someone at the bench is going to wind up with Smyth getting hurt.
As far as I am concerned you take a run at someone along there and you deserve a stick in the chicklets.
Its a good thing Kunitz didn't run a Messier or Gordie Howe, they'd still be picking up his teeth.
Keep in mind too that Smytty left on a stretcher the last time he was hit in that general area and run right into the turnbuckle.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone else think that Chorney kinda looks like Jimmy McNulty (from the best TV series of all time: The Wire) in that photo?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI would have preferred to link to this comment directly, but Amazon doesn't provide such a link.
ReplyDeleteUser comment by Mark Wieczorek on Sources of Power: How People Make Decisions
According to traditional decision making models, first you gather data, then you compile and compare options and decide on a course of action. Studying fire commanders, officers in the military, chess players, and many others in high pressured decision making positions, Klein came to the conclusion that you are more likely to come up with one course of action, run through it mentally to look for flaws. If you don't find any flaws in your model, you act on it, if you do find flaws, you do come up with another possible course of action, but you never compare two options, weighing the pros and cons of each. you simply don't have the time or energy. [My emph.]
Kerry Fraser's column is a huge disappointment. Does not educate in the grey area the fan cares about. But if you step back, you can glean a lot about the mind of a referee. Ping! The light went on tonight. Referees, like firefighters and combat officers operate in the satisfice regime of quick decision making.
From his point of view, any call is a good call if there are no obvious flaws. It's not about making the right call. At the end of his column you think, "OK it wasn't a bad call, but was it the right call?" and all you hear are leaves falling.
What fans want to understand is how satisficing in the moment permits the players to fine-tune at the edge of mayhem. Answer: not very well. We all know that instinctively from harsh experience. In the military, no one complains. If you satisfice on blowing one guy's head off before a different guy, there's no tribunal for Headless Nick. Sucks to be you.
Referees, however, pretend to be in the business of meting out fairness. Satisficing and fairness are red-headed siblings. But there it is, from the ginger toupee.
(Aside: I suppose Amazon thinks I'll satisfice on any other nearby link including all kinds of crap not pertinent to my point. How wrong they are. From a direct link, the reader is just one click away from stretching a leg over the crap moat to hit the BUY button if the object of desire warrants the goose step. I could write for days on the boundary between fair use and learned helplessness; it wouldn't even be off topic on this occasion. How about let's pretend I did and not go there.)
Deadman - Sounds like satisficing as discussed in works on bounded rationality by Herbert Simon.
ReplyDelete