Tony Esposito to the Hawks, Daniel Bouchard and Phil Myre to the Flames, Billy Smith and Chico Resch to the Islanders. There's more to it than goaltending, of course.
- Scotty Bowman: "Success comes from ownership, goaltending, and I’ve always been thinking that you can have a fire-wagon type of hockey but your ability to play good defence has got to surface. The thread that ran through all of my success was undoubtedly ownership’s commitment to win."
I believe the Smyth-Fraser trade may be a turning point for Daryl Katz and his relationship with his managers. The Sheldon Souray conversation with Mark Spector is one thing, but now we're talking about an NHL General Manager calling this management group into question. No matter the Bettman decision, this has to be a concern. The NHL GM pool is 30 deep, and should enough of them believe there's something untoward going on in Edmonton, the business of doing business will become very difficult. Sometimes being right isn't enough.
--
Nation Radio hits the airwaves today at noon on Team 1260. Among the guests scheduled to appear:
- Dustin Nielson from Team 1260 radio. He has a brand new show beginning later this month and we'll talk about it. Also on the agenda: the WJ camp going on this week and Dustin's impressions of the three Oiler invites. If we have time, I'll ask him about his unusual fanbase.
- Pat McLean from Black Dog Hates Skunks. The blogosphere's finest actual writer and funniest commentator on life, I'll ask Pat to discuss his blog's beginnings, the unique and authentic quality of the subject matter, and his impressive perspective on the Oilers and hockey.
- Todd Nelson, coach of the OKC Barons. I'll ask the coach about his impressions of the kids who attended the Oilers development camp after the draft. He was there and got a first hand look at some of the young men who will play for him this fall. We'll discuss the role on an AHL team in developing a big league players and ask him about some of the players who may return for a second season in Okla City.
- Cam Charron, a unique voice who has done some interesting work in recent days. I'll ask him about two way forwards, the value of the faceoff and we'll talk about RNH's future.
BD hits the airwaves! Don't know if you do the show live or not LT, but if you do, you may need that 7 second delay today. lol
ReplyDeleteIt's a shame that it would be widely off topic, as I would enjoy a 5 minute diversion to hear you gents wax poetic about the classic music of your youth.
Btw, in regards to the comments on last night's threads re: Edmonton potholes. After driving on Montreal's consistently horrid roads for the last year, I would kill to enjoy the intermittent mediocrity of an Edmonton commute ;)
Btw, a strong pot of coffee and the first Black Crowes album is an excellent way to start the day.
ReplyDeleteI'm interested in the feedback on this one, LT. Given the general stance of the average Oilers' fan, I don't think many people agree with you.
ReplyDeleteBtw, a strong pot of coffee and the first Black Crowes album is an excellent way to start the day.
ReplyDeleteThis, to me, screams "hung-over at a campsite somewhere".
chintsta: a frugal gang-member.
LT, just wondering who you and Willis and the other "math guys" believe are the top 3 or 5 GMs in the league? There is a consistent anti-Tambellini/management message (often subtle and not undeserved necessarily) in your blogs.
ReplyDeleteI do not think that "subtle" means what you think that it means.
ReplyDeleteJake: I'd think that Vancouver, Boston and Detroit are strong at the position. Pittsburgh too, although a lot of that had to do with drafting high several seasons in a row.
ReplyDeleteI've been told that my posts are pro-Tambellini and anti-Tambellini, and am old enough to know there's no pleasing everyone.
Mike Gillis is living off of Dave Nonis's patience.
ReplyDeleteIf you tell the other GM that the guy is injured and he is going to see the doctor on Wednesday for an update, don't you think that it is the other GM's fault for not waiting 4 days to make the trade.
This, to me, screams "hung-over at a campsite somewhere".
ReplyDeleteActually, that was last week. lol
godot: The title of the post is "when being right ISN'T enough."
ReplyDeleteI agree with you LT. I have commented several times about this, and the bottom line is the league is a limited market.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to be able to make deals, particularly the big deals that shape a winning franchise (which is coming up soon for ST) you need to have the ear and respect of the few trading partners there are.
The Oilers have an embarrassing list of botched signings, bad press from players etc., that as you said, right or wrong, has to stop. What other team has been like this recently? I can't think of any.
It seems they are treating players better, which is key as well. I hope they keep cleaning up their acts, because to contend we will need to make a pivotal acquisition or two, like a top D or goalie, and sorry LT but likely a proper 2nd C, depending on development and the next draft.
The team is going to start climbing out of the hole after this year, so the draft is not going to be the well it has been. Deals will very likely have to be made, unless ST avoids it by signing UFA's, which hasn't exactly been that easy for the Oilers.
@godot
ReplyDeleteGillis is doing what any good GM would do in his place.
He has locked up his core (the Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Bieksa, Hansen) at well under market value, signed Hamhuis for less than market value and has been very successful at attracting the complementary pieces to help his team win. (Malhotra, Samuelsson,Torres,
He may have to wear the goat horns on the Luongo and Ballard contracts but that remains to be seen.
He has also been very innovative in such areas as sleep, diet, fitness and travel and programs for his players.
To be sure, he was around when the core of his team was drafted but, as any astute mind will tell you, taking a team from good to great is the hard part and it is very common for a new management team to step in to get over the last hurdles.
While you may be prepared to give the Lowe/Tambellini team credit for finishing in the basement and drafting the Oilers' young core, I would wager they won't be around to see the end of the chapter.
Would venture to say that this blog has been fairly even handed regarding management. Not afraid to criticize where deserved (among them slowness in addressing holes in the lineup) and leading in its praise - especially of procurement at the draft.
ReplyDeleteIt's not all black and white and it remains to be seen if the trade (that was perhaps forced on him) and some of this summer's free agent procuement represents a rea grasp of how to go about a rebuild or the case of even a bind squirrel gets an acorn.
This issue with the LA Kings makes me think the latter, but I'm open to being convinced otherwise on 3.1. On Vish, that ship has sailed.
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ReplyDeleteWould add Washington to list of outstanding GM's and, gasp, Philly. Had horrible team 3-4 years ago and built a real good playoff contending team. For whatever reason never got the memo re goaltending and as a result they always played in playoffs with a handicap.
ReplyDeleteI couldn't agree more with LT's post. I try to give ST/KL credit where due but as I said in my Smyth posts that were roundly criticized by a few posters on the site; well managed teams don't have this many blunders, self inflicted or not.
ReplyDeleteI think the issue of Tambo's standing among his peers is a fair one but in this case it is relatively a fairer question to ask as to his standing vis-a-vis Lombardi.
ReplyDeleteI suspect he comes out better in that comparison.
My prediction is that we see Tambo in charge of the Oil longer than Lombardi is manning the till in LA - if they don't lock up Doughty and get past round two he's gone by next draft.
We'll see how well Gillis does now that he has to rebuild the AHL farm system and if drafts under his watch begin producing the pieces to maintain the status of the Canucks as contenders.
ReplyDeleteJust like it doesn't take a genius to draft Taylor Hall, it doesn't take a genius to sign the Sedins, particularly when they were at the idea age for taking advantage of a long contract with low salaries at the end to bring down the cap hit.
@ godot.
ReplyDeleteCertainly how well the Wolves do will bear watching but it's a pretty strong organization and the Canucks have had a good to great development system for years.
It's interesting to note that the past four coaches of their farm team have all graduated to the NHL.
I'm not sure what you're thinking about the Sedins' contracts.
Word was they originally wanted long term deals in the 12 year range but Gillis flew to Sweden that summer and convinced them to take shorter deals.
The do not have, in fact, the long contracts with low salaries at the end that you claim they do.
They were signed for 5 year at a cap hit of $6.1M each.
From a TSN story that day:
"We spent the last 24 hours with Daniel and Henrik going over all the options that they have," their agent JP Barry told Vancouver's CKNW on Wednesday. "The more they analyzed things, the more they truly wanted to remain in Vancouver. They're happy that this deal got to the range that it was fair."
The deals are a stark contrast from the twins' original asking price, which - according to reports - were identical 12-year contracts worth $63 million each. The brothers expressed an interest in remaining in Vancouver, while the Canucks always stated that it was a priority to re-sign the tandem."
So, yeah...you have to give Gills credit.
The Sheldon Souray conversation with Mark Spector is one thing, but now we're talking about an NHL General Manager calling this management group into question
ReplyDeleteOkay, what did I miss?
1. What did Souray say to Spector?
Jay:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2010/04/12/souray_request/
And NO I can't figure out the thingy.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI'm telling you, I have old man disease. :-)
ReplyDeleteSorry, that's my bad. It sure looks like it should work. the first option does work for certain.
ReplyDeleteI've tried, I swear.
ReplyDeleteOkay, I see I've missed the slashes in the address part. Some help I am! Might be best to trash the earlier posts.
ReplyDelete<a href=http://www.yourlink.com>Your Links Name</a>
Will look like...
Your Links Name
Through 1 1/2 periods, Smith-Pelley looks like the best player in the red/white game. A real Tank.
ReplyDeleteJust thinking about Bra & Panties' tweet about an FA goalie. If she's not just blowing smoke....
ReplyDeleteEmery has a TC invite, doesn't he? That pretty much leaves Leclaire or Turco, unless this guy played somewhere other than the NHL last season.
As for the Smyth trade, I cannot see trading for Ryan Smyth blowing up in Tambi's face. Lombardi was already sour after the Penner deal and likely already wasn't a go-to option before the Smyth deal. It doesn't sound like the phone is ringing at Oiler Central and even if the NHL chooses to fine Tambi a pick, how does that make him look any worse than Diamond Lou?
I think we're probably blowing this out of proportion, like the Mouth of the South Lombardi.
isn't ringing. Sheesh.
ReplyDeleteI think Katz wading into things and *caused* some of the early management problems in the belief that they needed to put some of this dirt behind them ASAP. When "Reach for the Stars" didn't pan out, he went to plan B, which I suspect is more his strength in the first place, build from within.
ReplyDeleteProblems in the farm system were left over from EIG. Did we expect that the Katz transition would be painless with no time to learn on the job?
I've been reading that Lincoln showed up in Washington in a much worse situation: a quarter of his government was occupied by sympathizers for the southern cause. He seems to have learned faster than Katz, but not without some hideous mistakes.
The whole discussion of his relationship with General George "Dithers" McClellan is right out of the Lowetide comment section.
Ulysses S. Grant did a much better job of promoting talent to the front lines; Union fortunes took a turn for the better once they started scouting the negro leagues. So many good lessons.
The first two years of his presidency, Lincoln was underestimated, misunderstood, and criticized for not having done things that proved far more effective when introduced after waiting for public sentiment to catch up with political carping.
It's truly amazing the amount of criticism he endured between the time he decided something needed to be done and finding the perfect time to do it. As a great statesman, you just have to bear it. The job sucks.
On a comparative schedule, we're about due for a general who fights. Lincoln on the immediate forward progress of General Grant:
"Well, sir, your question reminds me of a little anecdote about the automaton chess-player, which many years ago astonished the world by its skill in that game. After a while the automaton was challenged by a celebrated player, who, to his great chagrin, was beaten twice by the machine. At the end of the second name, the player, significantly pointing his finger at the automaton, exclaimed in a very decided tone. 'There's a man in it!' And this, sir, is just the secret of our present success." (Public domain as helpfully transcribed by the NYTimes.)
Does our whirling dervish management team have a man in it, or is it time for Katz to reform cabinet? From Wikipedia:
Robert E. Lee, on being asked (by his cousin, and recorded by his son) who was the ablest general on the Union side during the late war, replied emphatically: "McClellan, by all odds!"
His own management described General "Dithers" McClellan as a brilliant organizer and motivator but suffering from "a bad case of the 'slows'".
It's an immortal question.
Deadman
ReplyDeleteTo extent Lee said that to his cousin and/or son, it was not true. McClellan did a superb job training the Army of the Potomac. He just was not prepared to use it for its intended purpose. He truly had the "slows".
Grant understood his only job was to destroy the Army of Northern Virginia. In achieving that goal he was relentless.
LT, I think it's too early to say anything about management in regards to the Smyth trade...like Hall vs Seguin too early. More information will follow in the coming months, and we can pass better judgment at that point.
ReplyDeleteMany of the players at multiple levels in the Oilers organization have gone out of their way to say how much support and respect they get since Souray's tirade. To my eye, the Souray issue looks more like a one-off (ie a Souray problem rather than an Oiler problem). Nonetheless, I wish to maintain my right to criticize heartily should something really stupid happen.