Shawn Horcoff entered the NHL in the fall of 2000. His competition for playing time included men like Doug Weight, Todd Marchant, Rem Murray, Mike Comrie, Dom Pittis, Brian Swanson and Chad Kilger that first season. Horcoff outlasted all of them (some of them twice) and has survived to play 684 NHL games with the team (10th on the all-time list).
Shawn Horcoff's replacement is either on the roster or close to graduating. Among Sam Gagner, Eric Belanger, Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Anton Lander and others there are some quiet nights on the horizon for the captain. Horcoff has been a good soldier for the Oilers. I believe his role will change drastically beginning this season.
NHL Prediction for 11-12: 62, 13-18-31 (.500)
- His role is changing. Is he going to play defense? No, but Horcoff has been the Oilers leader in TOI per game among centers for a long time. Marchant in 02-03 was the last time a center not named Horcoff played an entire season with the Oilers and led the C's in time-on-ice per game. One of the reasons he played more? Horcoff was used in all three situations. That is unlikely to happen this year.
- He won't be on the PP? Yeah. Despite leading the team's centermen in PP points in just over half a season, I don't think he'll be one of the top 2 options (Gagner and RNH). I wouldn't give Nugent-Hopkins a lot of 5x4 time but can't see the Oilers passing on that opportunity. And Belanger is a veteran hand who can help in all areas, he'll cut into all three areas.
- He'll still PK a lot and play the tough minutes. Sure. Horcoff had a strong year before the injury, and that included the tough opposition. Although his zone finish was poor and he was outside the actual scorers at 5x5/60 (despite playing a lot with Hall-Eberle and Penner-Hemsky) he did well in most of the advanced stats. Solid Corsi despite tough opposition, did a nice job as mentor to the kids and sports a wonderful end of season plus minus.
- He'll have the same role at evens and PK? I think less. Gagner has shown progress and will probably take on more responsibility (and with it better opportunity) and Belanger can do a lot of things. I think Horcoff plays a lesser role this season.
- Good, that will mean Horcoff will be more effective. Yeah, it could work that way. However, I see three great sets of good wingers and four centermen. The math doesn't work. The #1 overall pick is a key--if he makes it then one of the other three C's will be a 4th liner at even strength. It isn't going to be Gagner, he's part of the future too.
- Horcoff is a better player than Belanger. Are you sure? It's hard to tell, but a long look at the Belanger numbers suggests the new veteran center is a very good hockey player. The big worry is Horcoff's offense at evens. If he can recover to a point where he's one of the top 6F options then RNH, Gagner and Belanger won't take his even strength minutes. But right now I think there's a chance he's going to be in a checking/PK role for this team.
- And Belanger ahead of him on the depth chart? Well, Gagner, RNH and Belanger ahead of him at even strength and the two kids taking the PP time.
- How bad is his even strength offense? He hasn't been above 1.6/60 5x5 in three years. Last season Horcoff was 1.47; Gagner 1.91 and Belanger 1.85.
- Horcoff was playing with crappy linemates. Well, no. 32% of his even strength minutes were spent with Hall-Eberle, 19% with Penner-Hemsky and 12% with Paajarvi-Eberle. At even strength, Shawn Horcoff played 81% of his EV minutes this past season with a combination of the names above. That's not crappy.
- So, you're saying he's 4line C? No, I'm saying that for the first time since he was a young pro Horcoff has some real competition for the big minutes on the team. His age, his injuries and the Oilers finally addressing center might mean he fades from the top 9F's at times this season.
- He'll still play tough minutes. Yes. But I think his role is changing. Shawn Horcoff isn't going to be an offensive option at evens and will have a diminishing role on the PP.
- Which makes him what? The next Brian Rafalski.
- Ha-ha, he's going to retire with 20M still out there! Not this season, but as Horcoff's role diminishes (and it will) on this team it'll be more and more difficult for him to play a role.
- Surely it isn't that bad. Well, yes it is. Gagner and RNH are going to be C's in this league for a long time, Belanger duplicates his skills and costs much less and soon Hall and the boys will need to be paid real coin. The Oilers are going to have to make a decision on him.
- When? Well, Lander is probably a year away from his rookie season, so I'll say 2013 summer.
- Will it be push or shove? There won't be any night of the long knives but I think it'll happen in a couple of years. Maybe he takes the Sillinger role or maybe they hire him for the NHL coaching staff.
- You're nuts. He'll play well into his 30's. Shawn Horcoff will be 35, fall 2013.
- All because of a slight downward trend at even strength scoring? Horcoff has been playing with good linemates (for the most part) all down the line and is going to get passed by the other centers on this team.
- You're going to miss him. Sure will, one of my all-time favorite Oilers.
•06-07 5x5 per 60m: 1.52
•07-08 5x5 per 60m: 2.59
•08-09 5x5 per 60m: 1.59
•09-10 5x5 per 60m: 1.37
•10-11 5x5 per 60m: 1.47
i wish i wasn't going to be so busy today, this is going to be an interesting comment thread.
ReplyDeleteIf he in fact loses prime ice time, he won't put up any numbers, and that combined with the contract, will be very hard to move him unless maybe a floor team picks him up.
ReplyDeletePrediction - another C will get hurt, Horcoff plays high minutes and has one of his best offensive seasons. ;-)
Jfry, agreed, should be interesting thread. Let the fun begin.
ReplyDeleteI wonder how Katz feels about paying Horcoff $6.5 million this season? That HAS to be a bone of contention between the owner and Lowe, however minor it might seem to us given Katz' wealth. Even rich guys don't like pissing away money for poor ROI.
ReplyDeleteAccording to capgeek, Horcoff's cap hit starts to exceeds his salary significantly in 2013/14 ($4M salary vs $5.5M cap hit). Is that correct? Seems like it should be the other way around. With that in mind, and Hall, MPS and Eberle all going RFA that year, that will definitely be the time that the Oilers 'Redden' him in the minors. I think the only possibility that avoids that scenario is a career ending injury. He'd been crazy to walk away from that $7M over those last 2 years.
Oh yeah, where does he fit this year? I think it depends purely on his FO%. If RNH goes back to junior and Belanger beats him in the dot, Horcs is destined for 3rd line duty. Possibly 4th line if Lander proves to be a wunderkind.
On the White topic and possible deadline returns for him if we pick him up, are we even allowed to trade a guy at the deadline that we picked up on waivers in the summer without him going through waivers again?
ReplyDeleteI couldn't find a definitive answer with a quick Google search.
Well, if his cap hit is higher than his salary the last two years, that makes him a prime candidate for a floor team to save a couple of million, right?
ReplyDeleteI'll pre-summarize the thread:
ReplyDeleteHorcoff
Horcough!!!
WHORECOUGH!!!!
LT: I'll probably be the last one standing defending Horcoff so here goes.
ReplyDeleteRe: His linemates: He played with an obviously not 100% Hemsky and early on w/Hall and Eberle as they learned to swim. You say he had the best linemates, I say there should be an asterik and if you kept him w/Hall and Eberle for a bulk of the season his numbers would rebound.
Same w/when he was w/Paajarvi later in the season.
As it were, I would not expect him to get the best linemates to start the year IF RNH stays. Consequently his boxcars may very well suffer. But this is a player who has been a very good soldier, who's only sin is Klowe signed him to a stupid contract. That's not the player's fault so can't we all stop crucifying him?
diffam - what the "stuff" is always hitting with Horcoff.
I find it rather hilarious that I am now likely considered a moderate on the Horcoff topic. He certainly hasn't been my favorite over the years and I fail to understand how his game can truly be admired because it seems as though he's left so much on the table...but at least he's made some contributions. It's too bad we're so weak at C; I really think he's a better winger because he doesn't get lost in the middle of the offensive zone when he starts from a wing.
ReplyDeleteAt this point though, we're hoping and wishing. I hope Belanger is motivated and plays excellent; and wish Hartikainen was a C because that would fill a need AND likely ensure a spot on the squad...also hoping Gagner surprises and takes a leap forward, but I've been burned too many times by perceived jumps from him.
Lee: Hopefully the next CBA will include some kind of provision for renogotiating contracts, something that has been suggested to deal with the Redden (and soon to be Horcoff) situations.
ReplyDeleteWoodguy: You forgot one:
ReplyDeleteHorcoff and die!!
But this is a player who has been a very good soldier, who's only sin is Klowe signed him to a stupid contract. That's not the player's fault so can't we all stop crucifying him?
ReplyDeleteYou realize that the player is a party to the contract as well, right? If a professional athlete underperforms on a fat contract, he's subject to the wrath of the fans, coaches, management, etc. That's pretty much par for the course. I don't know why Horcoff should be exempt from this cos he's such a so-called 'good soldier?'
If he's such a good solider, why doesn't he feel compelled to renegotiate the contract? Oh that's right, because money won is always sweeter than money earned. lol
Lee: that's actually because the current CBA prohibits the renegotiation of contracts. Contracts can only be terminated by the player through retirement.
ReplyDeleteHopefully this is addressed in the next CBA. I'm sure Redden would be willing to take a pay cut to get out of the minors (then again, maybe not).
Any chance the inevitable line juggling lands on Horcoff-Hemsky-Smyth in the middle of a game, those guys make the opposition look like Anaheim in round 2 2006, and the line sticks for a while? (The consequences of that would be lines composed of RNH/Hall/Eberle and Gagner/MP/Omark)
ReplyDeleteI would be very surprised if the Players Union would ever accept any terms allowing individual salaries to be renegotiated downwards.
ReplyDeleteMost certainly the owners would never accept anything allowing underpaid players to renegotiate, so why would the players accept it the other way?
This post is unfortunately quite realistic... bitter truth.
ReplyDeleteI always liked Horcoff. He's a good two-way guy, but I think he's the Gilbert of the forwards. I think in the right role he can be useful, but he's had too large a role here and is getting to the point where a cheaper option could do his job better.
I hope I'm wrong, because I really like Horcoff. If he keeps playing with Hall and Eberle, he could have some good points this year. But I am thinking that he will get bumped out of there before long.
Lee: Hopefully the next CBA will include some kind of provision for renogotiating contracts, something that has been suggested to deal with the Redden (and soon to be Horcoff) situations.
ReplyDeleteWell then the flip side would have to be permitted as well - which would just lead to holdouts, trade demands, etc which are not something I want to see.
Horcoff?
Used to be a fan - even with the big contract. Now I tolerate him. His inability to stay healthy has sapped some of his ability (I don't think he skates as well) and made him kind of irrelevant to the future/rebuild.
I also have this notion that his high end training has somehow negatively impacted his durability and skills. We had that group of Horcoff, Moreau and Stoll who all worked out like demons in Cali and then all promptly exploded on contact.
But he is good in the room.
LT, that's a helluva lot of ifs behind your conclusions:
ReplyDelete-if an also aging Belanger can handle top opp and still produce at the same level with the wingers he's going to start with.
-if Belanger in the few minutes a week that he cuts into Horc's time can demonstrate chemistry with his new, rarely played with wingers.
-if Gagner finds the trust of the coach in difficult situations before Horc and Bela, and then can actually find success in those situations.
-if Gagner doesn't get traded, as he is not "clearly part of the future of the club", but like all players, a present asset of the club and more fungible than many of his teammates
-if everyone continues to perform on the same trend as last year (an awfully small sample in light of an entire career), and Gagner shows clear improvement defensively.
The way it appears to me, it would take most of the above coming true for Horc to start his slide down the depth chart. No doubt one's days are numbered when one gets to his age, but that doesn't guarantee we will not see Smyth, Horc, Hemsky for the next 3 years either.
And anyone who has seen him play knows there's no way he's going to retire early. He has a steam engine chock full of competitive fire and is still faster than over half the guys in the league. And there is certainly no precedent for it in Oiler history. So can we stop it with wishful nonsense like that voluntary retirement story? It sounds like your RE prediction for Strudwick 2 years running.
I`m with Spoiler on this one... there`s a lot of "ifs" going on here. To add on to Spoilers' "ifs"... there's the IF RNH turns out to be a bonafide NHL centre. I agree it looks good, but he's still never played a game in the NHL. It may take him 3 or 4 years before he's ready to impact at the NHL level, we won't know until we see him play.
ReplyDeleteAlso there's the IF Lander can take a step up to the next level. I agree, he looks good and I'm excited to see what he can do at the NHL level, but he's also never played an NHL game. He will probably pan out, but he may not.
So Horcoff may be passed by Gagner (a good bet, but no guarantee if Gagner doesn't improve his defensive game), Belanger (a good bet, but he's also aging and his game may decline), RNH (great prospect, but we've been burned by prospects before and he's never played an NHL game), and Lander (good prospect, never played an NHL game).
I think we HOPE all these players work out and Horcoff becomes redundant, but I think we'll need another year before we can predict Horcoff's inevitable demise.
Years from now I'll remember Horcoff as the guy being set up off to the side of the net and one timing his shot with what looks like a fly swatter! He'll likely play around 50 games or so due to injury. Always was and always will be a 3rd. Line. Centre.
ReplyDeleteOne possibility is that with sharing the load, Horcoff gets to rest when needed, sees a little bit of softer competition, sees some offensive zone starts, etc. and actually regains some offensive touch because of it.
ReplyDeleteI figure, going forward this is the relative kind of money the top 6 are going to be getting:
ReplyDeleteHall 7.0 RNH 7.0 Eberle 5.0
MPS 4.0 Gagner 4.0 Omark 5.0
Obviously this isn't meant to be some kind of half assed prediction, the numbers are basically lifted from the top 6 of the Sharks.
The bottom 6 in my universe(starts in the 2012-13 season) has the Smyth/Horcoff/Hemsky line playing 3rd.
I have no idea what I'm talking about re contracts, but when the top 6 start getting paid what they're going to be worth, suddenly Horcoff has to get out of Dodge, and fast.
Unless Katz can't stand the idea of a winning team.
Hopefully we see a Brind'amour like story out of Shawn Horcoff:
ReplyDelete-Brind'amour was 3 weeks shy of his 36th birthday when he lifted the Stanley...Horcoff will turn 36 between the Summer of 2014 and the Summer of 2015 (his last two contract years...when the Oil might be competing for that thing)
-Brind'amour was a fitness nut...sounds like Horcoff was as well.
-Both give The Predator a run for his money in the looks department.
-At 33, Brind'amour dropped to 38 points in 78 games...only to come charging back to score 70 and 82 points in the first two seasons after the lockout (Did Eric Staal's emergence have an effect)?
-I can't find Brind'amour's cap hit for 05/06...but his extension signed after the cup win was $3.6 million (roughly 9% of the cap at the time...Horcoff's $5.5milllion is roughly 9% of the cap today). His extension was bought out but hopefully because he was signed much later in life than our friend Horcoff and that Horc still has contributing years over this deal.
Can Horcoff be our Brind'amour?
He's been a great player for Edmonton, and whether or not the forecast in this article is accurate for this season, it obviously is just a matter of time shortly thereafter. It's not a sign of disrespect, rather as well argued in the article: age and money.
ReplyDeleteHorcoff has been relied on to do the heavy lifting on a crappy NHL team for years now. Injuries have limited his effectiveness, most evidently footspeed (remember when Horcoff kicked some ass in the All Star skill competition? Remember when he was invited to the All Star game?). Kevin Lowe overpaid others from the 2006 team too, like Pisani and Moreau. There have been many factors in the demise of Horcoff's reputation in this town. I think it would behoove us to remember where he was drafted and how damned hard he worked to make himself into a useful hockey player and a leader in the dressing room and community.
ReplyDeleteThe clock started ticking with Gagner being drafted, but Horcoff has been a good soldier through thick (I dream of 2006 some quiet nights) and THIN (has it been 5 years since we iced an decent NHL team?). I refuse to criticize a player who has always left it all on the ice.
-Both give The Predator a run for his money in the looks department.
ReplyDeleteThis was very funny
Can Horcoff be our Brind'amour?
So was this.
Brind'amour scored 273 goals his first 10 years in the league. Horcoff 142. One of these players is not like the other...etc.
Ducey: I don't want to see holdouts or forced trades anymore than you do, but the fact is, these already occur. Disgruntled players can already demand trades. Players who feel they are underpaid can sit out for a new extension or leap to the KHL. Having some kind of selective ability to renegotiate certain contracts will not greatly contribute to this problem.
ReplyDeleteGiven the number of long term contracts around, I think the owners will seek a better exit strategy than the current buyout regime (whether a reduced buyout cap penalty, renegotiation or something else). The players may just go along with it so that AHL refugees like Redden and Souray can escape.
The players may just go along with it so that AHL refugees like Redden and Souray can escape.
ReplyDeleteNot only that, but you often see players restructure their contracts in the NFL to enable their team to acquire more cap space for a run at a championship. If Horcoff felt the Oil were close to winning the cup in a couple years and wanted to restructure his deal to enable Hall, Ebs, MSP, et al to be resigned, it would be nice to have a CBA that can facilitate that. That WOULD be the acid test on Horcoff's good soldiery.
Who kidnapped LT and wrote this post?
ReplyDeleteI must say whoever it was is very knowledgeable.
One of the very best reasons to dislike Horcoff is when the "but look how hard he worked with little talent" chestnut starts getting airplay.
ReplyDeletePersonally I don't care what a players talent level is or how much he gets paid.If they show up and play everyday thats all I ask.I have no problem with Horcoff.
ReplyDeleteAlways was and always will be a 3rd. Line. Centre
ReplyDeleteIs it possible that some people just didn't watch the 2005-06 through 08-09 seasons?
At WORST, during that period, the guy was a mid-tier 2nd line center, while at best he was a lower third (#21-30) first-line guy.
As for the last two seasons, not as good, but when you're one of about three decent veteran options on the worst team in the league, the picture may appear uglier than it actually is. With some actual help at center this year (Belanger, an improving Gagner and RNH and Lander likely to debut), we'll see if it really was Horcoff deteriorating or just a good player on a bad team being asked to put the weight of the world on his surgically-repaired shoulders and struggling in a near-impossible situation (I bet the winger combination of O'Sullivan and Jacques would make any center short of Sidney Crosby look bad, but that's been discussed at length here and elsewhere).
Frankly, I wouldn't bet against the guy having a good season in 2011-12, because he's probably working his ass off to be ready for camp. He'll certainly play an important role this year and next. Beyond that, it depends on where the salary cap is and what the rest of the payroll looks like. I'd rather they find a way for him to stick around behind the 1/2 punch of RNH/Gagner, because good teams have this thing called veteran depth that's become a bit of a foreign concept around Oilerville the last five years. Here's hoping Smyth, Belanger, Horcoff and others can reintroduce that concept into the Edmonton hockey vernacular.
Lee:
ReplyDeleteBrind'amour scored 273 goals his first 10 years in the league. Horcoff 142. One of these players is not like the other...etc.
While I wouldn't argue for a second that Brind'Amour at his peak was likely a better offensive producer (in terms of goals/assists) than Horcoff, I would tend to think that if you look at per-game production and then factor for the league-wide offensive production those years (Brind'Amour was a rookie in the pre-trap early 90's, while Horcoff played his formative years in a tighter-checking league), the gap isn't as wide as one might think.
Conceptually, the idea has some merit, the presence of a veteran influence on a team where the young guns are responsible for the rise to powerhouse status. Any team that has improved due to young talent emerging has had this element to it - otherwise, you're the Islanders and your team never gets better (no matter how many first overall selections one has on the roster).
HBomb:
ReplyDeleteWith respect, please don't ask or expect me to count on Horcoff for anything more than flubbing incredible goal scoring opportunities, or getting injured(some Mister fitness, when he can't even stay healthy and play a full NHL season).
The last thing I or anyone sane wants to see is Hall and the other young players emulating Horcoff's stupid commitment to off ice training.
White has been bought out. He's a UFA.
ReplyDeleteWith respect, please don't ask or expect me to count on Horcoff for anything more than flubbing incredible goal scoring opportunities, or getting injured(some Mister fitness, when he can't even stay healthy and play a full NHL season).
ReplyDeleteCould be worse - they could have Cogliano flubbing those opportunities at a greater rate, without the defensive awareness to compensate for not being Joe Sakic in the finishing department. I can think of a lot worse options to stick as the center between Hall and Eberle. Considering that line held it's own last season despite both wingers being rookies, I'd say the recipe worked just fine.
As for the injuries - just like any other player, I'd be concerned if it was something chronic, like a well-documented back injury that should have been investigated before giving a 37 year old goalie 14 million over years. But I digress.
The last thing I or anyone sane wants to see is Hall and the other young players emulating Horcoff's stupid commitment to off ice training.
Let me ask this - if off-ice training is so stupid, why is it that every NHL player worth his weight in salt does it nowadays? This isn't the old days when guys went and got fat over the summer, then came to training camp to "get in shape". Doesn't work that way anymore.
HBomb:
ReplyDeleteAgain with respect, it's not the off ice training I'm calling Horcoff on here - it's the silly level which he takes it to. There is something called overtraining, which in my experience points to his injury prone career to date.
hunter: I haven't seen any evidence of silliness with regards to Horcoff's training, just quotes from guys like Eberle talking about how #10 is a "professional" when it comes to that stuff.
ReplyDeleteI don't think overdoing it in the weight room was the reason for him getting injured in a "fluke" knee-on-knee collision with Corey Perry, in other words. Injuries happen to almost all players - I'd be a hell of a lot more worried about Horcoff (and Hemsky, while we're at it) if it was the same stuff over and over again. Ryan Whitney's situation is of greater concern to me - partially because his problems MAY be chronic to one area of his body, but moreso because this team is far less equipped to handle a blueliner going down than if a forward did.
I love how much people bitch about horcoffs contract when in actuality it has had ZERO negative effects up to this point. They've had plenty of cap room.
ReplyDeleteThe level of bitching will be astronomical in two years when they actually have to pay the kids.
@Cactus
ReplyDeleteSitting out for an extension is a longs way away from demanding a raise in the middle of a contract, and leaving for the KHL is not a realistic option for most NHL players.
You mention giving teams a selective ability to renegotiate...can you suggest how players who will be getting these pay cuts will be selected?
@Lee
NFL players do not have automatically guaranteed contracts.
For players not performing up to their contract it comes down to renegotiate or be cut. For players who are, they are not generally renegotiating contracts but restructuring them for cap purposes. Those types of deals are done with the players blessing and those players rarely, if ever, give up real dollars.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI would tend to think that if you look at per-game production and then factor for the league-wide offensive production those years (Brind'Amour was a rookie in the pre-trap early 90's, while Horcoff played his formative years in a tighter-checking league), the gap isn't as wide as one might think.
ReplyDeleteDoes this mean you're going to look at the numbers or are you just blue skying?
From my perspective, Brind'amour was a 2 time Selke winner with 452 goals and 1184 career points with an additional 51 G and 60 A in the playoffs. I honestly don't think he are Horcoff are in the same conversation regardless of the differences btw the eras they played in. Brind'amour was a durable and dominant two way player. Horcoff is an injury prone faceoff specialist with limited offensive upside.
I kind of wonder if there is anyone else out there who dislikes Horcoff's contract, because there are times when I have moments of uncertainty about whether it might have been a tad generous and a wee bit on the long side...
ReplyDeleteI wonder if there's anyone who posts here willing to admit they were happy to hear about Horcoff's contract, because finally the Oilers had themselves a number one centre, at any rate as advertised by Kevin Lowe and the gang down at Northlands.
ReplyDeleteNah, it's just you bookie. I don't recall ever seeing concerns about Horcoff's contract before. Buddy seems to be beloved my the mob much like Gilbert.
ReplyDeleteHunter, I had mixed feelings about the signing. Loved that Horcoff was here long term, but thought it was at least 1.5 million over what it should have been.
I just want to know how many millions of dollars Katz is going to have to flush down the toilet because of Klowe before he realizes that perhaps his childhood idol is not infallible.
ReplyDeleteI remember the first time I beat the old man in a game of 1on1 basketball, things were just never quite the same...
...Or taking money off the old man at poker.
ReplyDeleteDoes this mean you're going to look at the numbers or are you just blue skying?
ReplyDeleteBlue skying because I'm at work, but I've piqued my own curiosity and will make a note to do one evening this week.
Like I said, I'd agree Brind'Amour comes out ahead, but I'm inclined to believe the numbers are closer than one would think once they're weighted for the different eras and factored to account for games played.
I wouldn't call Brind'Amour a dominant two way player though - that's the kind of praise I'd reserve for a Datsyuk or a Sakic (who, for the record, got ripped off in Kurri-like fashion in that he never won the Selke despite being an otherworldly two-way player for well over a decade). Rod the Bod was damn good though. Still pains me to see the footage of him lifting Stanley, for obvious reasons.
Agree with uni - I like Horcoff a lot for reasons that are obvious to most - but he was overpaid on this deal by about $1.5 million each and every year. Lowe managed to bargain against himself in a most spectacularly bad way - especially since Horcoff was hurt at the time. No other team was going to give Horcoff that contract - and even if someone was willing - you let him walk just like we should have done with Pisani (another player I have tremendous respect for). But all of this assumes rational management - not the inept clusterf**k that has been the hallmark of the Oilers management suite since the summer of 2006.
ReplyDeleteWithout Horcoff this team would have catapulted over DFL all the way to rookie graveyard. People here sound as if DFL is the worst you can do.
ReplyDeleteThe phone wasn't ringing of the hook with bargain basement Horcoff replacements had we let the guy walk. As a destination, Edmonton was becoming about as popular as the city toured in an intructional video about the effects of a neutron bomb. In the exodus of rats of a sinking ship, two is company, three is a stampede.
Horcoff was overpaid $500k per year because the phone wouldn't ring, another $500k to play nursemaid to the future (racking up Ls and not complaining about it), and another $500k because Oiler management boxed themselves in a corner chasing other options that never panned out. Some fishing trips were expensed to the Horcoff account.
I don't think he cost Katz a lot of money relative to any other strategy to obtain to consecutive 1st overall draft picks without having Bettman breathing down your neck behind the scenes for pulling an obvious tank job. He hasn't caused any problem (yet) on cap space.
We might yet regret the length of this contract. Time will tell.
If only Nylander's wife had been more tolerant.
ReplyDeleteEvery time I want to get even remotely excited about the Oilers, thanks to HOPE, I only have to take a look at #1 and #2 C to be brought back to reality.
Hey Katz! Oy.
Traktor said...
ReplyDeleteWho kidnapped LT and wrote this post? I must say whoever it was is very knowledgeable.
Rumour has it DSF is holding LT's signed Pouliot jersey as ransom until Komrade Horcov's cover is completely blown.
Deadman Waking...
ReplyDeleteIf you ever come out with an Oiler Pop-up Book, I would buy it.
WOW @ the night of the long lives reference. Just WOW.
ReplyDeleteAs the man said when he was talking to himself;) so much of it depends on the kid.
ReplyDeleteIf you have 10-89=Belanger as your top 3 pivots then the TOI will depend on how much Renney's trying to actually win.
Looking at the construction of the roster tells us it's probably not a big concern so, yeah, you'd have a 4-89-14 line who'd get the most EVTOI and then 94-10-83 - typing that made me grin:) - second most and then 91-EB-23 on the third line.
That last one wouldn't be a matching line so those lines don't really make sense if you're trying to win. But then you look at the defense and you know they aren't trying to win anyway.
It will be interesting to see if the Oilers employ the "Just Hold It Together" approach again this coming season or if they will have a few more weapons in their arsenal. Horcoff was playing babysitter for most of last season and it hurt his numbers all over the place.
ReplyDeleteI think if he gets his time back with Hemsky and Smyth he will bounce back triumphantly. He looked very, very, good at the start of last season. If he comes in again like that and gets rolling...watch out.
I also don't believe for a second that Belanger is a better player than Horcoff.
ReplyDelete