I don't know that Winnipeg would make a trade, but they don't seem to be building toward a playoff run this coming season (I know, pot: this is the kettle) and Bogosian enters the final days of summer without a contract.
The Jets have various needs and the Oilers could use a young defender with some experience. He has also been used in all areas (top 2 or 3 in terms of TOI in all three disciplines a year ago) of the game and there's evidence that Craig Ramsay played him in tougher circumstances.
We also know that Bogosian has in the past expressed an interest in playing elsewhere.
There was a time when Slats acquired a useful defender from Winnipeg 17 years ago:
What is a fair "line in the sand" for such a player when he is so young?
If the asking price is Paajarvi and Smid or anything close to that, I'd hang up the phone immediately and put a call block on that phone number.
ReplyDeleteUmmm...isn't Bogosian an RFA?
ReplyDeleteYep, misread capgeek while forgetting ths summer. :-) Thanks for the catch.
ReplyDeleteNo thoughts on a suitable price for Bogosian, but that trade actually got us a couple of decent defencemen: the fact that the Jets' throw-in begat Tom Gilbert (via Tommy Salo, who provided us with at least a couple of years of passable goaltending himself).
ReplyDelete(The trade's lineage also includes a couple of less excellent defencemen, in Christian Laflamme and Igor Ulanov. To say nothing of Sergei Zholtok, may he rest in peace.)
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteFor such youth I often think: if both these players had outstanding seasons what would be the trade at the end of it.
ReplyDeleteAt this point in their careers, Gagner would be a steep price. While I think RNH and him can coexist on the same team, it would probably be smart to parlay that duplication into areas of weakness, even if at a slight loss of value.
How about none of the above?
ReplyDeleteBogosian's numbers have been going down. PPG, GPG, +/-. Every season.
We already have a high pick defenceman project in Cam Barker. Two is loading a second bullet in the chamber, and then playing Russian roulette with the season.
i don't want Paajarvi or Hall, Nugent-Hopkins or Eberle traded anywhere because we haven't yet seen how good they can become. i would be open to *maybe* trading Oscar Klefbom + to the Jets for Bogo. i feel they might see him as a suitable replacement?
ReplyDeleteI'd wait a year or two. RFA contract, and steadily declining numbers?
ReplyDeleteAll you need is a mistake filing the paperwork, and you have Cam Barker 2.0.
Edmonton needs a defender, but I'd rather give MBS another draft pick to play with than trade for Bogosian.
@Steve Smith
ReplyDeleteDon't you have too much to do tonight to spend time on Lowetide?
That link doesn't work (re: expressing interest to play elsewhere)?
ReplyDeleteWorks for me. Anyway, it's a Kypreos tweet from Feb saying Bogosian wanted to be playing elsewhere in 11-12.
ReplyDeleteI think Gags is expendable at this point. Belanger qualifies as a second line center (which is the best I can foresee Gags ever truly becoming).
ReplyDeleteThat would leave us with the following pecking order at center: 1st-RNH, 2nd-Belanger, 3rd-Lander, 4th-Horcoff/Brule/VV.
Then D looks like this: (1-2)Whiteney-Bogo, (3-4)Gilbert-Petry, (5-6)Barker-Smid, (7)Sutton
Looks a lot better on paper anyway if you ask me. Here's to dreaming.
i don't think it is necessary to gamble on Bogosian just yet.
ReplyDeletecheck.
Oops forgot to stick Peckham in there somewhere. I guess we would have to include Smid in that deal for maybe a prospect like Paul Postma.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, it's a Kypreos tweet from Feb saying Bogosian wanted to be playing elsewhere in 11-12.
ReplyDeleteGoing to Winnipeg. He should be pleased.
As a fan of both the Oilers and now the Jets, I just don't see this trade happening. The difficulties with his past year aside, as you have been pointing out for years, defence develops by sundial. He has played the toughs too early in his career and might now be coming to point where he can handle them - I think that perhaps Smid might be a decent comparison. From the Jets perspective, there is little reason to trade him. If he turns into Pronger, management will always look bad, and if he doesn't (and they haven't signed him to a stupid contract), there are always teams willing to trade for high draft pick guys. Living in Winnipeg, I am really interested to see him play live. One thing to note is that at the age of 20 he was wearing a 'A' on the jersey. This might be a desperation thing on the teams part, but it also might be an indication of how he is viewed by his teammates.
ReplyDeleteJeremy and Theresa Epp: Yeah, I don't think the Jets will deal him either. After all, the franchise has put in the time and they might as well see how it turns out.
ReplyDeleteBra and Panties had Bogo offered around the League earlier this summer. Likely so the Jets know what their options are, if negotiations don't work out. I don't think they had any intent of trading him then, but wanted to know how badly they should try to sign him (not badly at all if a "blow you away" offer comes up), and what they would get if they didn't.
ReplyDeleteAnd he still remains unsigned. If the status quo continues midway into September, I think we will hear the rumour mill fire up the Briggs & Stratton sans earplugs.
I would take him. His stats and level of play are excellent for his age. His age is perfect for our cluster. The salary he is going to want is not going to fit into their structure. If they want to keep Bogosian, then one of the other two top 4 Dmen should be available (not Bufflin Dustin).
The question is, as LT puts it, if push comes to shove, and the Jets want to deal Bogosian, what would we be willing to give up? It's tough to say what the deal would take as we have no idea what other offers might be on the table.
I would start with Jones, Plante and a 2013 1st and try to keep the conversation away from Gagner and Hemsky as much as possible. But in the end, I would likely deal one or the other if that's what it took. The only names off the table would be Hall, Ebs, MPS, RNH, maybe Klefbom. I'd be expecting more than Bogosian back for Hemsky though.
Deja vu
ReplyDelete"Hey John first time caller......see ST Louis is struggling, wondering if Slats would consider Todd Strueby,, our 6th round draft pick next year and a partially used tube of Ben Gay for Brian Sutter, Rob Ramage and Mike Liut"?
John "yes, I can see Slats seriously considering that deal to improve the Oil but am a wee bit concerned ST Louis might think that was an overpay to get an underperforming AHL journeyman"
If we want a big, fast skating D man that cares (as distinguished from Cam Barker), it will cost us. Lots. If we want in that game, it will cost us. Maybe Gagner and Smid. And we could lose that trade big time. Or we could get a real # 1/2 That is big, fast and he could completely mesh with the Core of this team
Don't you have too much to do tonight to spend time on Lowetide?
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think I bothered tracing the lineage of that trade? I needed procrastination material.
I think I'm in real trouble here, though. But I guess after my performance at this blog in my last semester of law school, from which I did in fact graduate, such statements appear to be crying wolf.
On Bogosian, I think The other John (besides me, I mean) probably has it right, in that landing him would require a substantial risk on the Oilers' part, that may or may not pay off. Of course, every now and again you see players acquired for so much less than you would have anticipated (the Thornton trade's what stands out in my mind) that you never know.
what scares me is the VanRiemsdyk contract. One 40 pt season and OK playoff run equals the Penner deal. Our issue is that we may have 3 or 4 players who could get solid deals like that in 2 or 3 years. The reality of a solid 2 years for Eberle and Hall is a contract in or above that range. Omark and MPS could fall in around $4 mill and if Gagner steps up his next deal starts at $3 mill. We are still to small where it counts, do not have a dman who can play top 2 minutes anywhere near the big club and don't look to have one close in the system less then 3 yrs away. Asset procurement is how you win, and you use the assets of which you have a glut (smallish skilled forwards) and make a move to address a glaring weakness. I'm not sure if Bogosian is that player, but if you dealt Omark and a D prospect like Musil you would have to consider it since it makes a more balanced team right now and it's not like Bogosian is old. He fits the age group have for the next 5 years. And LT, isn't that the theme year after year, our lack of balance?
ReplyDeleteThis is off topic, if there is such a thing on a hockey forum in August. We can't offer Paajarvi. I was planning to call him "3 of 3" for the entire season.
ReplyDeleteEberle needs to earn his "2 of 3" with another highlight reel goal on opening night. If he can repeat that this season and next, I can link him onto the Wikipedia page for Reggie Jackson under "See also: Mr September". Damn that guy was a flamboyant prick (or so it seemed to me growing up) but I did not know that he earned a walk and three home runs on seven pitches and three pitchers. I could never do that after three pitchers.
Returning to off topic, here it is.
Why is there so much hate for Danica Patrick?
Sure Horcoff is overpaid, but he played it right, he's never worn orange heels, and he's never said a wrong word about the organization that I can think of. In other sports, the pretense that compensation is a direct function of performance is even harder to stand behind. Damn, a woman who can pass me on the highway in a flat spin should not be wearing orange heels.
Besides, we're batting 3 of 3 on recent rookie debuts, and 4,3,2,1 had something to do with it, regardless of boxcars, even if he would have been 4,3,2 on any other team.
I would be in there pitching if he was in fact available,but I wouldn't sell the farm for him.I think Winnipeg has slow played
ReplyDeletethe whole negotiation to see what they could get for him but I think in the end they will wind up keeping him.
Why is it that it's been over and over again in the conversation?
ReplyDeleteHe's a young guy who has done nothing but regress while suffering a major injury (Broken leg).
Red flag isn't big enough?
I never thought this numbering system through. In Lowetide's system, seven of nine makes you a third line center, and (on this team) six of six makes you a day pass from the press box. Let's not get into ninth of six until after xmas (cue the dyslexics).
ReplyDeleteFor example, Mike Comrie playing third line center would have been seven of nine on MacT's game card in Lowetide notation. The other day someone posted that we should put all our speed on one line. I thought of the guy in the FTD logo. He does look a bit like Comrie muscling into a bar elbow first to propose to Hilary buff. No, you can't put all your speed on one line after Comrie ran off with the booties.
Or maybe the Borg were into Australian rules baseball, in which you're born into your slot in the batting order, and there you stay, living or dead.
OK, that's my fix of numerology for the rest of the decade. I promise. Tonight I served a vat of popcorn in a big steel wok (Reggiano, dill, cinnamon, and black pepper). It was sloppy handfuls all the way down.
Actually, what went through my head was that a line with all speed and no grit wouldn't be the LOD, it would be the FTD, and the rest followed.
ReplyDeleteI think we should pass on Bogosian. Unproven, injuries, and my gut says a bit of an attitude problem. Keep drafting well, and let the stable on the blue develop in OKC. If we keep signing guys to value contracts and win a few games, the needed stud UFAs (Shea)will come.
ReplyDeleteDBO: I think Philly had to overpay a bit for JVR based on the following factors:
ReplyDelete-The good playoff run indicated that JVR might be a "clutch" player (GMs seem to like overpaying for those)
-Philly had just burned two young players who had signed long deals. They may have had to pay a bit of a premium to get that 5th and 6th year.
-By my reckoning, they Flyers are paying for at least one year of UFA status. That usually comes with some cost.
-Cap inflation: the Penner deal is increasingly obsolete as a comparable. At the beginning of 2007-08 the cap was $50.3M (first year of Penner deal). Today, it's $64.3M.
I like the idea of acquiring Zach Bogosian... RHD... physical d-man that plays a 2-way game. I think though that he's still a bit of a question mark. I also think that while Paajarvi was completely overshadowed by Hall and Eberle (and even Omark), I am not at all at any point where I'd move him yet.. at least for another unknown talent.
ReplyDeleteI have to admit, when I saw the title of this post, Gagner came to mind, but more so because I figured that would be what people would suggest. I think he will have a good year should he center Smyth and Hemsky this year. But I would be OK with moving him for the right deal. I'm skeptical this is the right deal, but I think I'd still do it.
But if it came to trading away Paajarvi for Bogosian, I'd rather just hang on to Paajarvi and find out what we have here, even if he ends up being a dud... cause there's that chance that he will be as good as we've heard he is.
If the Jets were willing to do the mythical quantity for quality trade I would be interested.
ReplyDeleteWould do
- Omark plus prospect that someone suggested earlier.
- An unsigned soon to be UFA Hemsky. This would need to happen soon before the inevitable season ending injury
Would not do
- Hall, Eberle, Paajarvi
Anyone think the 2012 1st round pick is good value for Bogo?
Too much can go wrong with moving Paajarvi at this point for Bogo. Now if you could use him & + to bring in Schneider out of Van. that's a different story
ReplyDeleteWow did we win that Mironov trade. Wasn't that 1st rounder the infamous Bonsignore pick?
ReplyDeleteNow is the time bad organizations trade players like Bogo. Same with Gagner. I imagine the price would be steep but its worth a phone call. Would you do a 2012 first? I don't think I would but your buying 3 years of development. A quantity for quality trade would be best for the Oilers.
No chance I would move Paajarvi for Bogosian. If the Oilers wanted to address the lack of defensive depth, then they could have done that by signing a UFA in the summer, say Scott Hannan for e.g. They haven't, so they shouldn't give up quality assets to do it. I would lowball a trade for Bogosian, say Jones, Plante, and Cogliano (if he was still here) or a 2nd round pick I guess.
ReplyDeleteQuestion LT: who's more valuable - Gagner or Omark?
Australian Rules Baseball... that sounds like a sticky wicket.
ReplyDeleteThe 2012 1st rounder should absolutely not be in play. If the Oilers finish in the lottery running there's a very good chance of an excellent prospect being on the board.
ReplyDeleteI don't see the Jets trading a young high pick like Bogosian anyway, new city, all new management, fresh start for everyone.
If they want to do a silly quantity for quality though, by all means.
You don't put the 2012 1st on the block for Bogosian.
ReplyDeleteThat pick has a very good chance of being a lottery pick and there is some real high end talent at the end of this year's draft.
Jets fans are damn lucky: http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=374860
ReplyDeleteSportsnet's broadcast quality is bush league compared to TSN's.
Wade Belak now 3rd NHL enforcer found dead this off-season.
ReplyDeleteRIP
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ReplyDeleteWatched Wade play his junior hockey. Really nice guy off the ice. Cool dude. One of the good guys who was a good family man.
ReplyDeleteSad off season for the NHL.
The 2012 pick should definitely not be on the block... but what about the 2013 1st? Would anyone be willing to offer that pick in return for a first rounder Dman with solid potential like Bogo?
ReplyDeleteI think I'm in real trouble here, though
ReplyDeleteDue to vague instructions and Shaw cable going down on my block over the weekend I worked through he night and finished at 3:57.
I have a feeling the word "Tuesday" will never be the same after this.
You should be more responsible, TUG - I was done by 3:45.
ReplyDeleteFor some values of done, anyway.
I'd commiserate with you in greater detail, but that would probably violate the professional integrity policy.
Also, be advised that the "password reset" feature on the website doesn't work (fortunately, it also doesn't prevent you from logging in with your old password, or I'd have been really hooped).
+1 to the other john.
ReplyDeleteI'd also like to add that Hockey Hall of Fame hockey writer Jim Matheson says Bogosian could be had for a signed 8x12 of Dennis Bonvie.
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