We've discussed this forever, mostly around the failed Prendergast selections. The problem for KP was that his aim wasn't true and it cost the team an enormous amount. Not just the draft picks but also the trades for draft picks (Jason Chimera was sent away in search of Geoff Paukovich, as an example).
I think the Oilers have tried (in the last several years) to change the mission statement. Whereas the KP era saw them select big men who were physical and played hockey, the more recent drafts have been focused on hockey players with good (not great) size and some edge to their play. I know it's simplistic and maybe it's a poor way to explain it but that's the idea.
These young men won't be PIM champions but may be better at sending the puck in the right direction. Here's a comparison of the KP Coke Machines and the more recent list that delivers size and skill.
- 2000-#35-C Brad Winchester, 6'5, 210
- 2001-#52-C Eddie Caron, 6'2, 230
- 2002-#79-LW Brock Radunske, 6'4, 199
- 2003-#51-RW Colin McDonald, 6'2, 190
- 2003-#68-LW JF Jacques, 6'3.5, 217
- 2003-#94-RW Zach Stortini, 6'4, 225
- 2004-#57-C Geoff Paukovich, 6'4, 207
- 2005-#97-C Chris Vande Velde, 6'2, 190
- 2008-#163- L Teemu Hartikainen, 6'1, 215
- 2010-#31- R Tyler Pitlick 6'1, 190
- 2010-#48- L Curtis Hamilton 6'3, 202
- 2010-#166- L Drew Czerwonka 6'2, 192
- 2011-#74- C Travis Ewanyk 6'1, 185
Will list two be better?
I'm not sure how "guy who can play hockey well" ever got outside the definitions of drafting potential NHL players.
ReplyDeleteBy that definition, list two is already better than list one.
Can someone please explain to me where the euphemism "coke machine" came from? Also what does the coke machine compare to: is Tom Gilbert a water fountain?, is Sheldon Souray a keg of beer,is Ethan Moreau destructo bot 3000?
ReplyDeleteMind Crator: I think it's something I came up with, although the mind blurs.
ReplyDeleteA coke machine (in hockey parlance) is a big forward (usually a winger) who can impact a game in the boxscores and intimidate/mandhandle/own the puck every shift.
Problem is LT, even the bruiser of that group, Hamilton, is now longer a "big" forward...he's a mere slip of a boy by current standards.
ReplyDeleteHell, Toews is that big and he can play hockey. :)
DSF: Of course none of these kids is a top 5 pick either. Toews was 6.01, 195 in his draft year according to this article.
ReplyDeletehttp://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=477279
Was Cameron Abney left off the list because he seems more like a player that would have been chosen under the KP regime?
ReplyDeleteNo, Cameron Abney was left off the list because he was an extreme enforcer type. If you examine Abney versus Stortini, I don't believe they are similar player types.
ReplyDeleteLT, my point is not that Toews is a giant but that the forwards these kids will be playing against are generally at least as big and the defensmen are becoming huge.
ReplyDeleteI don't have the averages at my finger tips but Mirtle is good at looking at such things.
In the most recent article I could find, the 8 teams remaining in the playoffs in April 2010, averaged 6'1" 202.
It would seem 6'4 220 is the "new coke"
DSF: I'm saying the "new Coke" is smaller, a better actual player and more likely to be effective.
ReplyDeleteThey're abandoning the knuckle draggers.
I see, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.
ReplyDeleteLT.
ReplyDeleteCan't disagree they will be more skilled, better players but, in terms of size, they're pretty average.
Yeah, I think it's true. The Oilers are going away from the oversized winger.
ReplyDeleteMy take. The height to weight ratio that works best is dependent on what rules the league is currently enforcing.
ReplyDeleteAs it seems obstruction, and now egregious hitting (because of Crosby) are now de rigour, the best combination of strength and speed rules.
The era of Hatcher, Gary Suter, etc., any thug on skates that can barely move and holds or beats up opponents to win the battle is done.
The size that is ideal ranges from someone around 6'0 - 6'4, and 195 - 220 for forwards. A bit bigger for D.
I'm crazy? Look at most contact sports, and outside power first roles (huge), that's ideal. Strong enough, but still quick.
Too tall and skinny, loss of strength, speed, and maybe durability.
Too tall and heavy, loss of speed (coke machines Pendergast style).
Too short and heavy, loss of reach and maybe speed (Gagner).
Too short and light loss of strength, reach, and durability.
These are generalizations, but how often on our team has this shown true?
There are always exceptions, but that is not something to bank on, but to acquire once the odds are overcome.
I would take a risk on Eberle, RNH snd Omark, who have shown they can avoid bigger players and compete. They have an unusual style that focuses on deception and quickness, and the unexpected.
You can't build a winning playoff team with too many guys like that as far as I have ever seen.
Isn't list 2 already better?
ReplyDeleteLMHF: Yes.
ReplyDeleteMon Diue.
ReplyDeleteMoreau speaks (with video)
http://lakingsinsider.com/2011/08/23/moreau-talks-about-joining-kings/
Mon Dieu
ReplyDeleteDamn
Players Height Weight
ReplyDeleteHere is last year's stats.
I wonder if "saw him big" is just manifesting itself in a slightly different form under Stu?
ReplyDeleteGuys like Bendfeld, Bigos, Abney, and Hesketh have all been reach picks that have more to do about size/grit then any hockey playing ability.
One other thing I have noticed about the Oilers since Stu took over is that they tend to take a lot of prospects that are famous a year before the draft, then "fall". I'm not sure if the Oilers are out of the ordinary in this, but it sure seems like they have more of these prospect types then the average team would.
Motin was projected to be a first rounder.
Rajala a second.
Roy a first.
MPS fell a bit. Many thought he'd go top five. Perhaps not in the same vein as the others.
Hamilton was supposed to be a first round talent pre-injury.
Musil was supposed to be a top ten heading into his draft season.
I don't understand why the current GM feels the need to waste one pick per draft, or at least take a guy four rounds too early. This year's model? Ewanyk.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand why the current GM feels the need to waste one pick per draft, or at least take a guy four rounds too early. This year's model? Ewanyk.
ReplyDeleteI'll give you Kellen Jones last year.
I don't agree on Ewanyk though. He is good on the dot, and his motor is always running. He aint going to be a top 6 player. I expect he will be a a PK guy, a guy who takes important draws, and generally is a pain in the ass to play against.
Its not like the Oilers have a ton of these guys around.
He had enough traction to get on the U 18 team and was apparently one of their better players.
Its unlikely he would been there with the Oilers 4th round pick.
Slightly OT: Speaking of Jonathan Toews - how the heck did he slip to 3rd overall in 2006? I seem to remember the reports being good on all of he, Staal and Johnson, but don't tell me for a second that St. Louis and Pittsburgh wouldn't choose differently if they could go back and had the option of taking "Mr. Serious" (note: met the guy in person last June, and the nickname is justified - nice guy, but not one to smile casually).
ReplyDelete4 seasons in the league, and the kid is already on my personal Mount Puckmore with Gretzky, Messier and Sakic. I'd give my extra kidney if RNH turned into Toews-lite. Any team could use THAT...
I think in the name of fairness and equal representation, we should occasionally refer to them as 'Pepsi Machines'. Or better yet, how 'bout the non-brand-specific 'Cola Machines'? :P
ReplyDelete'bowdrou' - Bruce Boudreau's arch-nemesis
How is 6'1" player, lite of 200 lbs, a "coke machine"?..
ReplyDelete6'3", 220 lbs is the starting point in my books..
Hmmm I always inferred that coke machine was a big monster guy that couldn't really play hockey that well...maybe that's just how it worked out for our coke machines.
ReplyDeleteAlso OT but according to Don Cherry 17 a "dangle" is when you skate really fast with the puck. I always thought dangling was really tricky stickhandling, dipsy-doodles and all that Linus Omark stuff.