Eager's counting numbers are a nice comparable for old timey Flyer Bob "Hound Dog" Kelly; last season's 68gp, 7-10-17 120 for Eager would be a nice (adjusted for scoring effects by era) Bob Kelly season 35+ years ago.
Ben Eager is filthy.
Oiler fans are going to have to get used to having a "bad guy" on the team (Georges Laraque, gentleman fighter he is not) and coach Renney is going to have to coach him up and get him to take fewer costly penalties. When he was in San Jose in the spring, their coach (Todd McLellan) liked his physical style of play but didn't like all those penalties.
- McLellan: "I'll take Ben Eager's game without the penalties any night. He was an honest guy, battled hard, skated, fought through everything."
NHL Prediction for 11-12: 69, 8-8-16 (.232)
- Who does he replace? JF Jacques.
- How big an upgrade? I believe it will be significant. Ben Eager can play NHL hockey.
- What happened with Jacques? Two things. First, injuries had a tremendous impact on the guy and I don't know that we ever got to see the player at his best. Second, he lacked a certain ability to move the play forward consistently.
- Hockey sense? Man, I hate that phrase. I don't think it would be a good idea for me to start talking about hockey sense because then we're getting into areas that can't be measured and then we're back to boxcars and hockey cards. I do think he had some trouble with some of the basics, especially after his back started giving him trouble.
- Quinn got a lot out of him, put him on the top line. Suffice to say that it was ill-advised and that it was not a fair move for the player. Jacques' style didn't fit Hemsky's, and it doesn't take a lot of hockey sense to see that's true.
- Back to Eager. Where does he play? Four line minutes, four line mates, chipping in some offensively and providing a physical element.
- Plus he has a Stanley. Well I'm not a person who believes that gives a player extra intelligence or elevated ability, but do believe the Oilers could learn about how to use him based on Chicago's coaching strategy that spring.
- How did they use him? 4line help and opponent, 6 minutes at evens a night, no PP and no PK time.
- Is he the most talented 4line player the Oilers have on the roster? No, Belanger (who as of now is projected in the role but is overqualified), Hartikainen, Brule are probably more talented too.
- And Ryan Jones? Hmmm. I'll say no. I'd take Eager over Jones at even strength and I don't think either of them belong on the PP.
- Eager the enforcer over Jones the energy player? Right. Eager scored 1.36/60 at 5x5 this past season (courtesy Gabriel Desjardins' behind the net) and Ryan Jones was at 1.38/60 at 5x5 during a career season. The previous season it was 1.94 to 1.21 in Eager's favor.
- Eager at 6 minutes a night and you're happy. Right. 6 minutes a night, cut back on the penalties taken and let him agitate like an old time washing machine. I have him playing 9 minutes a night in the RE template because the coach will try him in several roles until he feels comfortable with him.
- And if someone gets injured he moves up the depth chart, right? Hmmm. The Oilers have Hall, Smyth and Paajarvi ahead of him and Hordichuk behind him on the roster. Hartikainen is in the minors and you also have Petrell, Hamilton and others in OKC. I'd probably elevate Belanger into the top 9 no matter the position of injury and then look at Brule (if healthy) and Hartikainen before moving Eager (and then Jones) up to the top 9.
- You know Renney will use him in offensive situations. I don't think the results will be there if they play Eager 15 minutes a night. So he might try it but the player he's demoting among Hall, Smyth and Paajarvi is a better option. Renney isn't going to do a Pat Quinn "hey, what about Jacques WITH Hemsky?" move, I'm pretty confident in making that point.
- So, RNH-Eager-Eberle opening night? Yep. Book it. :-)
I have long thought that a goon,a real goon, and not designated fighter is a better conduit to "policing the game", if that is what you desire in a player.
ReplyDeleteA player like Eager who will cheap anyone on the ice is a goon.
It also seems like he is not quite sane and can skate.
Should be interesting to watch.
TAKE THAT BEN EAGER!!
-impartial CBC play by play man Jim Hughson
There is a reason Ben Eager has become a suitcase. I'm afraid he'll turn into Ethan Moreau II getting little ice time and taking stupid penalties. Players like Eager seldom take someone else with them on a minor penalty and seem to draw instigator penalties. Signing a player like Eager might be management's way of ensuring they remain a lottery team.
ReplyDeleteI'd take Eager over Jones at even strength and I don't think either of them belong on the PP.
ReplyDeleteEager scored 1.36/60 at 5x5 this past season (courtesy Gabriel Desjardins' behind the net) and Ryan Jones was at 1.38/60 at 5x5 during a career season. The previous season it was 1.94 to 1.21 in Eager's favor.
Not sure its fair to compare the 09-10 seasons as Jones only played 49 games and was on waivers. Here are Jones' three seasons:
08/09 17 pt in 46 games = .369 pp/g
09/10 12 in 49 = .244
10/11 25 in 81 = .308
Cherry picking?
Before last year Jones had only played 95 games. Eager had 250.
Eager's best year ever by boxcars was 17 pts. Jones had that more goals than that last year.
Rel Corsi last year:
Jones -11.1
Eager -12.6
Q of Comp
Jones -0.024
Eager -0.078
Bottom line is that neither are stars, but saying Eager is better than Jones at evens seems unfair.
Ducey: Jones was third among Oiler LW's in EV TOI (881 minutes) and was also gifted with over an hour on the PP.
ReplyDeleteEager was on the ice for 712 even strength minutes and played a little on the PK and PP (4 and 8 minutes, respectively).
You'd agree these are factors when looking at points per game. As for relCorsi, Eager has actually been pretty good at that number, last season it looks (to me, anyway) as though they played him too much (which I've suggested is probably a bad idea) at even strength.
As FPB has pointed out a few times, we may not see a drop in Jones' point scoring rate next year, since he had (relatively speaking) a freakishly low assists number. His goals number will decline, almost certainly, but he could make it up with an increase in assists.
ReplyDeleteWhat makes Jones terrible isn't his boxcars (which were themselves right about on par with Eager last year) but his underlying numbers. His RelCorsi is brutal no matter which measure you use (worst of any consistent roster forward but MacIntyre), and he was on a much worse team than Eager. Eager's a better hockey player, though probably a good deal less likable one.
Ethan Moreau took stupid penalties that didn't help protect the Oilers' skill forwards.
ReplyDeleteBen Eager will take stupid penalties that will help protect the Oilers's skill forwards.
The Oilers need a MAD enforcer, somebody who is able to target the other team's skill forwards if they target "ours".
I would prefer that one didn't have to do this, but the NHL refuses to take action against punks like Cooke and Burrows.
Homer: [answering the door] Who is it?
ReplyDeleteVoice: Goons.
Homer: Who?
Voice: Hired goons.
Homer: Hired goons? [opens the door]
Goons: [take Homer roughly away]
There's so much you can get accomplished with hired goons.
lol.
ReplyDeleteI see Eager as a more direct replacement for Stortini before Jaques. Add decent skating, a great shot (surprisingly so), the psycho factor, and the ability to actually throw a punch.
ReplyDeleteHe'll give Renney a few more grey hairs for sure but hopefully he won't get too badly beaten down for it.
If the league took seriously protecting it's players goons or fighters would be obsolete.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't. As you said once LT the league is run by guys with a beer hall mentality.
Eager is not here to get points. He is here to get the cheap shot artists off the backs of the young guys and Hemsky, to give them some breathing room.
Even with a scoring smart hockey playing 4th that many seem to want, the Oilers are a still a bottom feeder.
My rebuild model is simple. Emulate the best team in modern history, the 80's Edmonton Oilers. And that team set the tone early in the league, while the talent was still cutting their teeth, before they could go far, that no liberties could be taken.
And later, when they could win, the great players were more free to play their games.
Despite my riff the other day about Harper government policy amounting to the organist taking over the responsibilities of the official statistician, which had me giggling for days, I feel like I almost owe the thread an on topic response.
ReplyDeleteWell I'm not a person who believes that [a Stanley cup ring finger] gives a player extra intelligence or elevated ability ...
A freshly-minted TED talk picks up on this theme spectacularly well. In the TED ere of inflated self-importance and WTF bottom lines (c.f. Newton, Thandie) this one's a ringer. Hard to believe Thandie is as well educated as George Parros.
Paul Bloom: The origins of pleasure
Worth it just for the Hermann Goering bitch slap. Goering is also famous for his prophetic views on American politics.
it works the same way in any country
As amiable psychopaths go, he was a well-spoken man. It's a sick world we live in.
I first saw Bloom give an excellent interview many years ago at Edge.org about what his six year old son believed was "really me".
Against Bloom's notion of essentialism, one needs to stack up the Thomas theorem:
If men define situations as real, they are real in their consequences.
In hockey, how do you tell the real Vermeer from the fake Vermeer? How do you know if the sisters are men or boys? What the difference between an NHL locker room and 30 men in a tub with Capgras syndrome?
Pisani goes 14-4 in 24 GP when it matters most, almost certainly earning the Oilers management an extra gate or two in the Cinderella sweepstakes (found money under the apple tree wrapped in baling twine), yet people still found a way to bitch about his subsequent overpayment. Disregarding his lights-out shooting percentage, he was in the right place at the right time in tough-ice conditions to get those shots off. Colour me a believer.
Kirasawa's Kagemusha also deals with this theme (at the taut pace of 179 black and white minutes; Jacques Lemaire wrote the screen-play). The line by the warrior's grandson is worth the entire movie. We're not all so easily fooled.
As much as I would like to agree with LT, it's hard to fully discount the Ring of the Fisherman in what amounts to an essentialist spectacle.
Still, as a GM of the put-up-or-shut-up tradition, I'd rather overpay Pisani after the fact than a lucky-to-be-there PITA.
Not very popular, I know.
SS: I think, even if he drops, his SH% will still be up and away over normal grinders.
ReplyDeleteThey usually shoot around 7%, so it still somewhat skews the Corsi.
As for Eager I'd be curious to see him PK. Or even PP for that matter.
Speed and grit is there. If he can use his head he would be a fine PK guy.
Hockey is a rough game.
ReplyDeleteAt present, Oilers are possibly the least hated team in the league, and the one most popular with other teams viz playing against.
In the distant past, Oilers were the most feared team in the league, and definitely the least popular date on the hockey calendar.
Goons like Eager(got to love a name like this) viciously attack opposition teams players, in retaliation for real/perceived slights.
Anyone who prefers the past few seasons to having a few goons on board, please let me in on your secret.
FastOil: The dynasty Oilers featured some of the dirtiest players in the HOF.
ReplyDeleteAnd a supporting cast that could have taken on the 1975 Flyers.
I think that I just got hipstered off of my chair.
ReplyDeleteDeadman: I agree. I'm in the ''clutch'' camp.
ReplyDeleteNot because I believe some guys actually become better hockey player, but handle stress and pressure better.
I remember someone saying that because with dealt with professionals, they always gave their 100%, and that it didn't matter playoff or not.
Thinking about it, home advantage pretty much destroys that.
Of course there's advantages in hockey who skew the results (Line changes) but not in Football (Unless crazy like Seattle), Basketball or Soccer. Where the margins are incredible.
The Washington Wizards were 21-20 at home and 3-38 away from home.
Hockey players and athletes are first and foremost human beings.
the oil haven't had a real enforcer in so long. i'm even hesitant to call big george an enforcer, in some capacities.
ReplyDeletebig guys who line up and fight big guys the play after something important happened, don't really change things in my mind. enforcers who are good interviews and genrally cheerful and "good in the room" don't do it for me either.
big mac did nothing to protect hall last year. big george did nothing to protect smyth and hemmer before him.
i'm pretty confident that eager will show us a radically different version of the "enforcer" role than we've seen since the wing nuts of the early 90s and late 80s.
i can't wait to hear him say, "that guy needed a pounding and a cheap shot, so i did it, plain and simple." instead of, "well, there's a code among fighters."
i'd rather have torres, but guys like torres are afraid of eager, which is amazing.
the ACK! attack (zach, big mac, jacques) could all learn from this guy.
this guy should be called "crazy train" i can't wait for him to bring out the foil, coach.
every good crew has a wing nut.
I have very small expectations for this player. I hope he is not a complete idiot and refrains from bringing shame to the Oilers jersey as much as possible. There is such a thing as being a "good" goon.
ReplyDeleteIf by "filthy" you mean "useless" and/or "on his last NHL stop" then I wholeheartedly agree.
ReplyDeleteIf you ask me having a guy on the team that will make sure any slight against Hall/Eberle/RNH and co will not go unpaid for is a good thing in my mind.
ReplyDeleteTaylor Hall ended his rookie season early standing up for himself because he believed he needed to set his own example. This mindset might of been allowed to grow that year as previous infractions most likely went unpunished. If you have someone taking a run at Hall and then someone like Eager coming over to him and saying "don''t worry I will pay it back", the retribution mindset for a young Hall is less likely to develop.
Hall will learn to pick his battles better when he knows he will have Eager telling him he's got it. With all the talk about how SMAC would make the players play bigger, having a guy that will go out and do your actually dirty work should make you play with more bravado.
I am all for team toughness once our stars grow up and become full NHL players. However during this important growing period it would be nice to be able to hold their hand for a bit.
Eager will be frustrating to watch sometimes, but seeing him lineup against the Sedins this year with them looking over their shoulders all night will be worth the price of admission.
Sorry for not following the bouncing ball but did Robin Brownlee just get gassed at ON and Team 1260?
ReplyDeleteI actually think he is a good journalist albeit, a wee bit grumpy. Less MSM than he thinks but a good man nonetheless!
ReplyDelete@ the other john
ReplyDeleteAm I missing something?!!...I see no info anywhere citing Robin Brownlee either stepping down or being let go from his various gigs...what are your reading /hearing that I cannot seem to find anywhere on the internet?
robin has been a painful and speculative read for too long. he epitomizes the issues with the MSM thinking they have an educated "saw him good."
ReplyDeletepictures of him in the turtle neck say it all.
FBV
ReplyDeleteAt some point the fun of analyzing stats has to give way to the fact Jones is a shitty NHL hockey player.
A self serving, brown nosing, fake hitting, poseur, losing the battle black hole of an NHL player.
Even the stats say that. I don't care if he scores 25, because he gave up 45 to get them.
I'll give him a new handle - "Cha-ching".
Oh, bye the way, I like the guy, he's got charisma.
I'd prefer to like him on the Canucks.
There was a good point here about people wanting a good scorer on the 4th line and overall I don't have a problem with Eager.
ReplyDeleteI think the third year on his contract is a little bit much but in terms of 2012 relevance the D as currently constructed will be our biggest worry/downfall and not a few foolish penalties from Eager.
Plus, if some of his high-strung behaviour keeps Kesler away from fighting 89 then it's worth the trouble.
The Oilers need a MAD enforcer, somebody who is able to target the other team's skill forwards if they target "ours".
ReplyDeleteWhat about those times that he targets the other team's skill forwards first and they decide to target ours in retaliation? How much protection will that provide?